Advice Line with Mei Xu of Chesapeake Bay Candle and Blueme

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2:45Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. And you can also send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com. and make sure to tell us how to reach you.

3:20And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free at GuyRoz.com or on Substack. And we'll put all of this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. Joining me today is Mae Hsu, founder of Chesapeake Bay Candle & Bloom. Mae, welcome back to the show. Thank you, Guy. It's so good to be back. It's great having you. So you were first on the show way back in 2017. You told us about how you came from China to the U.S. after being trained as a diplomat. And then you wound up starting a candle company, Chesapeake Bay Candle.

3:58And you actually sold that company for$75 million to Newell Brands, which also owns Yankee Candle. It's an amazing story. If you guys haven't heard it, we will put a link to it in the podcast description. Super inspiring story. Since then, May, you've written a book. You started a boutique that sold products from women founders. And now your latest home good venture is another candle brand called Bloom. So tell me about it. Well, actually, I want to say it's more wellness brand. As you know, I sold the business because I had breast cancer in 2016. and during my recovery, I really found the gap that is there in front of me that I never see, which is the way that people use fragrance candles to bring back some of the normalcy.

4:53And then, of course, what happened during COVID is that more and more people work from home. They really, on top of each other in my household, we have six of us, four kids going on Zoom meetings and my husband and I tried to find our own niche of a place to work and having some fragrances around you it's almost like a territorial thing you know I burn my fragrance my husband started using candles too and I started to see that there is a lot of demand just to be able to practice self-care during that time with fragrance so I launched bloom really to address that blank space, in my view, that connect what we know about sense of smell with well-being.

5:42Awesome. May, I know, I remember when you came on the show, we talked about how early on, you know, sort of, you know, back before you were designing your own candles, right, when you were still importing them from China, there was a point where the sales really dropped and you started really hot, but then the demand went away and you were worried. Tell me, how did How did you come back from that? What kind of advice would you give to entrepreneurs who are trying to recover from a dip in sales? So when I started the candle business back in 1994, it was a very what I would call novelty craft candle.

6:21They have a lot of designs on the outside. They are called glow candle with Christmas designs. So it went extremely well, like hot cake during holiday time. But after holiday, who wants to buy a Christmas-looking candle? Then I really went back to the marketplace and just do my research. I realized I'm one of the few brands that actually focus on non-fragrance candles. And fragrance is what drives consumption. It makes that connection with consumers so fast, so strongly, that they go back to buy more and more. So that's the discovery, the aha moment, I would say. I was very good at always mixing different fragrances that no one's doing.

7:05So that's the beginning of a whole new surge of sales. That's awesome. You know, Mae, I know that times obviously have changed since when you first founded Chesapeake Bay Candle. And now with your new brand, Bloom, you seem to be focusing on direct-to-consumer. How do you think about picking a sales channel in 2025? That's such an interesting question, Guy. I'm sure you have noticed that people are not going shopping in person, right? It depends a little bit. In certain places, they are, but in other places, they're not. Correct. And yet, even in certain places we're talking about in New York, where people are going there to shop, even in New York, I noticed, Guy, that small boutiques are doing much better.

7:57than department stores. Yeah. And that's why you're seeing the consolidation on the very high end of luxury department stores. I think every brand needs to think in multiple channels of distribution. It's the way that businesses are carried now. Yeah. All right, May, are you ready for our first caller? Yes, I'm waiting to be hearing from them. All right, we're excited. All right, let's bring in our first caller. Welcome to the advice line. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just one line, one brief line about your business, please. Hi, Guy. Hi, Mae. Lovely to meet both of you.

8:35And, Mae, can I just say your candles are everything. Thank you. My name is Sasha Milstein. I'm originally from Seattle, but I now call Brooklyn home, and I am the founder of Aunt Ethel's Pot Pies. So we make gourmet frozen pot pies with a flaky, buttery croissant-like crust that's accompanied with a rich, creamy filling, big chunks of chicken, and garden-fresh veggies. Got it. Nice. Well, welcome to the show. Thank you for calling in. I remember as a child, I don't even know if they exist anymore, they must, Swanson pot pies. And they were, you'd throw it in the microwave or whatever, and you'd get a soggy crust, or it might take like an hour in the oven.

9:14So basically what you've done is you've separated the pie and the pot, the stuff in there. And so you heat them separately? Yeah. So basically all you do is remove it from the freezer. You just pop the crust in the toaster, pop the filling in the microwave, and then marry the two together and they live happily ever after. I got you. So you toast the crust part. So you had a crispy crust. And then you – all right, cool. Tell me how the idea came about. Yeah, so about 10 years ago, my aunt, Aunt Ethel, who runs a very successful catering company in New York City, came to me with the existential question that I think a lot of small businesses have, which is, you know, they've been successful year in, year out.

9:55But how do they exit? How do they retire? So at the time, I really didn't have an answer. So fast forward five years ago, I'm traveling through Vietnam with my family. and of course I'm listening to how I built this about a woman who started a chicken salad company and I'm listening to it. Stacy Brown, chicken salad chick. Exactly. I remember everyone. So later on that night over Tamron Teenies watching, you know, the sunset on the beaches of Hoi An, I just looked at my end. I said, you know, what's one of your most crave worthy products. And of course, immediately she responded, her chicken pot pie.

10:38And I thought about it for a second and realized the chicken pot pie is America's sweetheart dish. Doesn't matter if you're rich, poor, liberal, Republican, everybody loves a pot pie. So right there and then I said, okay, I have an idea. What if we took this product, we commercialized it, we scaled it, and eventually exited. And at that point, that's where the idea came along. Wow. Awesome. Okay. So that was in 2020. Tell me a little bit about how the business is right now. Are you guys, have you cracked half a million dollars in sales? So we technically launched last year, last fall into over a hundred Wegmans locations.

11:16We then went on QVC. We aired and sold out of 8 ,000 units in six minutes. And we just hit the quarter of a million dollar mark. Nice. Congrats. Okay, awesome. So now, before we get into the business, what's your question? What are you trying to solve? Yeah, so I'm five years into building this company, and while we've built something with a strong foundation and real traction, being a solopreneur means there are lots of blind spots that you just can't fill on your own. So for me, one of the biggest is production and manufacturing. I know how to build a brand, sell a product, but scaling the operational side, that's where I need help.

11:52So I'd really like to find a co-founder who can balance out those blind spots and take us to the next level. May, I know that you had a business partner who also happened to be your husband. And while I'm not looking to get married just to find a co-founder, what are some meaningful ways to find the right one? Great question, Mayshu. I just want to declare that we got a divorce because of that. So be careful. That was May's first husband, yeah. Yeah, so be careful what you wish for. I'm just going to remove my foot out of my mouth. Yeah, it is very hard to work with your spouse in a business that is so intense.

12:26So I suggest you look elsewhere. There are ways that I feel there are so many more smaller communities, particularly in Brooklyn. I personally can connect you to angel groups that they invest in startups, particularly that are already proven with concept. A lot of women's groups these days are trying to support minority women. Major companies, a guy like Goldman Sachs, they have launched, which is to found companies that will invest in women-owned businesses. Sasha, let me ask you a question. You're in Brooklyn, is that right? Is that where you're based? Right. Okay. And have you – I mean Brooklyn is a – it's a huge incubator of all kinds of food products, ideas, businesses.

13:15I'm sure there are some of these commissary kitchens and food groups there. I mean I know my brother is in San Diego. He's in charge of a nonprofit for food businesses and they meet regularly and have events. Do you go to any of those things? That is my entire social life. That's all I do every day. Yeah. And in those groups, no luck so far? So I did actually come across a co-founder with Y Combinator that I'm currently dating or interviewing rather. This person is at Y Combinator now? They came through the Y Combinator platform. Okay. Yeah. And it's sort of like a, it's kind of like a dating platform where you can kind of swipe on other co-founders to see if it's a good fit.

14:07And so one of the things I was looking for was somebody who is more tech focused, just because I feel like the CPG, the consumer package goods space is changing so rapidly. And in order to get a leg up and compete, you know, doing that with technology is probably the best strategy. So, and also just to give you a little bit of background about myself. I was a former angel investor with 37 Angels, which is a female-founded organization. And we did invest in women companies. So I'm very supportive of that. I think the question, May, isn't so much how does Sasha find a co-founder, but who is that co-founder?

14:48What kind of person? Right. And that's why I'm trying to understand, Sasha, You're not looking to have investors. We are actually gearing up for our first round. As you know, the CPG business is very capital intensive. And while we've bootstrapped and taken out debt, we're finally ready to start using other people's money. So the whole idea as a business model is first you want to see, A, where's the exit, right? How big do you want to build this business? And then once you build to that scale, are you exiting? Are you going public? Or are you going to be still managing the business while someone else owns the majority?

15:34So when you figure out all these paths, one of the things that many of the investors can do is to bring the additional talent for you. That's why I'm not sure looking for a partner is exactly the right thing. particularly if you could consider hiring your first major higher level high, right? Like a brand manager. Like a brand manager or COO. It seems to be a COO that may help because you want someone to really scale the business that understand where to source, where to finish, even marketing and manufacturing. So you would be the brand. I mean, the possibility I'm thinking about it is endless with vegetarian versions and different ethnicity versions.

16:24So I think that probably could be easier for you if you're not looking for a partner, you know. I think that's a really interesting idea. Rather than looking for sort of a full equity partner, I mean, finding a brand manager or a COO or call them whatever you want and where they would get some equity. They'd have some skin in the game, an incentive to help you build it. But somebody who is an operator in that sense that has the skills or the sort of the desire, the interest in doing the things that are less interesting to you. I mean, one of the things that I think, you know, I'm not saying anything to you that others haven't said.

17:01Down the line, you're going to need more products, right? You've got three flavors now. I see chicken and cocavon and a mushroom. It's lentil, I guess. And I think about three flavors. Is that right? Yep, three flavors. But down the road, you know, you're going to want to see what else you can do in the frozen, ready-to-eat meal space, right? It's not just going to be pot pies. You're going to be using the technology that you developed to do other things. Maybe there's going to be pasta dishes or rice dishes or other things in there down the road. And so you want to find somebody who might have some limited CPG experience but is still young or new enough where they're not as expensive and maybe willing to take a risk on a smaller brand and an upstart brand like yours.

17:47Yeah, so you guys are definitely echoing a lot of the thoughts that we've been having over the last few years. We trademarked the company as Aunt Ethel's because we wanted to establish ourselves as a trustworthy pot pie company. But eventually we do want to scale into a frozen comfort food brand. And I like what May had to say about the international aspect. So given the fact that our product is two part, you can really mix and match as far as, you know, the pot pie is kind of just like a vessel. It's one of the most internationally recognized products in the sense that, you know, India has a samosa, Asia has dumplings, Argentina has an empanada.

18:26So it's really just the best. Cornish pasties, right? Exactly. So we've thought about taking that two-part and putting some type of crunch in the top along with some type of filling in the bottom, like wonton chips with teriyaki chicken or potato sticks with a shepherd's pie. So we're right on the same page as you guys. Yeah. And May, in terms of, I mean, I think that makes a lot of sense. And in terms of finding that person, I mean, it's really, it's just a matter of reaching out, right, to absolutely everybody you know for ideas. It's like the hit rate on that is going to be, you know, might be one or two percent.

19:05But the more people you reach out to, the more you sort of widen that net. And now with Guy, you're going to have so many people knocking on the doors. That is going to be a problem. I think the question, Sasha, I want to actually remind you is you really need to do some analysis. You know, what is your strength? What is your weaknesses? What do you want to complement to you? Because you don't want another person exactly like you. You need to have that analysis in front of you so that when people come knocking on your doors or you are meeting them, you have a very clear vision who's going to run what.

19:46It would be very painful. Sometimes I remember people telling me hiring very slowly and firing really quickly because I would say thinking really hard about what you want is very helpful. That's a great idea. Yeah. I think that's very sound advice. The brand is called Aunt Ethel's Pot Pies. Sasha Milstein, thanks so much for calling in. Good luck. I'll look for it. Thanks to both of you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah, it's a cool idea. I mean, you know, and again, rightfully so, right? It's like you can do a bunch of different things. And thinking about it as a frozen foods brand, right? Yes.

20:25She's got a cool brand, cool idea, and we'll see how she built it out. All right. We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller and another round of advice. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to The Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.

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24:31Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz and my guest today is May Shue, founder of Chesapeake Bay Candle and Bloom. And we are taking your call. So let's bring in our next caller. Hello. Hello, I'm Tara and I'm calling in from Dubai. I'm the co-founder of Dry Dolly, a company rethinking towel apparel. So it's not just functional, but stylish too. Whether you're fresh from the shower, the swim or the gym, Dry Dolly takes you from wet to dressed in seconds and still looking fabulous. All right, Tara, thanks for calling in. Dry Dolly, just help me understand what this is, apparel that you wear out of the shower?

25:07Yes. So basically, I just have a really rubbish towel dress. and I always wondered why there was nothing any better than it on the market. I did lots of research. For like 10 years, I tried to replace this rubbish towel dress. And I just thought there's got to be something that you can put on after a shower when you're not ready to get dressed, that you can still cool down in, that you can use as a towel, that can look amazing, and that you can answer the door without scaring the UPS man, and you're good to go. So that's what we said about doing. I got you. And so the bathrobe does not fit those criteria?

25:45No, because it has no bust support. It's too hot and heavy. When you're blow drying your hair, you often get makeup on the collar. And it's just most time it just doesn't fit you. But with a dry dolly, it's designed in a way that's got built-in support. And you can just step into it, tie it, and you're literally good to go. Got it. All right. So it's a dress basically made out of towel material. Yes, but a very, very unique towel material. It took me a long time. I knew exactly what I was looking for and it took me a long time to source it. It's lightweight, but to get the right kind of style.

26:26Gotcha. And you're based in Dubai, you said? I'm based in Dubai. We have Dry Dolly in the UK as well, as my sister is running that operation from there. And what? And it's sold direct to consumer? Yes, at the moment. So we only had the idea late 2023. I'm not from fashion background. I'm not from manufacturing. But we just thought that the whole towel apparel needed a complete shakeup. So the question is, do enough people, I'm assuming right now you're aiming most of this towards women, because dresses have this problem where they get out of the shower, they want to put on makeup, but a bathrobe or a towel isn't good enough.

27:04Before we dive in a bit more, what's your question for us? My question is, because what we realized when we were doing all the testing and we were handing them out, that our market is much more than what I initially thought. I initially thought it would just be people like me who, after a run and not ready to get dressed after a shower, you need to cool down. I thought it would be perfect for sports when you're in a gym changing room and you don't want to struggle with the towel. But when we started giving it out, we realized that my pregnant friends loved it because it's A-line and it's toweling and they could breastfeed.