Advice Line with Pete Maldonado of Chomps

26:03There are millions of shoppers that shop there all the time. All right, let's bring on our next caller. I think we have Brandy on the line. Hello, Brandy. Hey there. Hello, Brandy. Welcome. Introduce yourself. Tell us your first and last name, what your business is, and where you live. Yes, my name is Brandy Shelton, and I'm the founder and co-owner of Just Add Honey Tea Company, a thoughtfully blended loose leaf tea company here in Atlanta, Georgia. Amazing. Okay, and what's the question you brought for Pete today? Yeah, so we've been in business now 17 years. What started as a professional hobby is now a retail facility, a production facility.

26:47We just opened a Zen garden. We sell online. We have some small mom and pop shops that sell our teas around the U.S.

27:04our shirt because I'm not getting any younger. Yeah. How do you get into big bucks? Okay. We're going to, we're going to get into that. Let's, let's find out a little bit more about Just Add Honey. You, you started this, I think back in 2006. Tell me about what were you doing at the time and how did you get into the tea business? Yeah, I've worn several professional hats. My last one in 2006, I was a wardrobe and prop stylist for print ads, advertising, commercials, and it's either, you know, ramen noodles or steak. So during the ramen noodle times, I would create and make kind of during the DIY phase when the Etsy's and all of those companies came around.

27:47And so I would always make things, but I always found myself holding a cup. It grounded me, it centered me. And there were so many different combinations you can do to a cup of tea. and sold it, gave it away actually as gifts to friends and family. And then somebody asked to buy some. And I was like, oh, wait a minute. I have a business. And that's literally how. Yeah, it's how I started. I started doing farmer's markets and festivals. I opened a brick and mortar about 10 years ago and just kind of evolved from there. I say co-founder because my husband joined the company about eight years ago.

28:30now our 15 year old is an employee and we have 38 employees amazing it's still fun and I just want to keep that train going I'm looking at your website and and see see that you a little bit about you here it says you're born in New Orleans and you grew up drinking tea because every time you were sick your grandma had a tea for whatever was ailing you yeah I mean I call coffee the one hit wonder because you know exactly where it's going to take you. But with tea, it has so many like in uses. Like if you're not feeling well, have a cup of tea. If you're feeling great and you want to keep going, have a cup of tea.

29:10End of the evening, have a cup of tea. So I love that tea has all of these wonderful endless possibilities. And so we try and do that, whether it's somewhere that you've traveled far away or if it's a memory of with your grandmother, like myself, or if it's It's just some wild and crazy concoction that we do, like with our teas of the month every month. We create something fun and crazy. All right. So now you've been in business for a while. You've got a brick and mortar, and you've got a D2C business here. You can order direct online. Now you're looking to get into the big time. You want to be in the Targets and Walmarts and the Kroger's of America.

29:55Is that fair to say? Absolutely. I want to be the first nationally so black owned tea company in the U.S. And I just, like I said, I really, really love it. I mean, nobody does something for 17 years unless they love it or they're crazy or a little bit of both. All right, Pete, what's your take? Yeah, Brandy, nice to meet you. Yeah, love hearing the story here. It looks like there's a lot of passion behind this. So I guess a couple of questions for you. I see here a lot of the packaging. And I love actually the way that you're breaking things up by functionality. So like get up and go. And then you have your wellness tea, sip and relax.

30:39So from a branding perspective, how are you planning to lead with these things in retail? Because when someone looks at the packaging on a shelf, they need to know immediately, what is this going to do for me? And why should I buy this? Can you talk a little bit about that? What did you do when you created this packaging to thinking about retail? Yes. I used the farmer's market as our experimentation with that. All of our jars in our stores and at our farmer's markets are in clear containers because people shop with their eyes. So if you go on a lot of retail shelves, you'll see stainless steel tints.

31:18So we still offer that with a wraparound edge. But the window on top is clear so you can see the tea and you know exactly what you're going to enjoy. And so that's our tins that have a longer shelf life. Our quick grab and go, we just updated it for this big box push that we're doing where it has this really fun hexagon window that's on front and back. So it's bright orange and yellow, which feels fresh. It feels sophisticated and fun. And then that hexagon that kind of sticks with our branding is clear on either side. So you still get to see that with each grab and go bag, which is a lower price point to kind of entryway into those stores.

32:02Awesome. You're thinking about a lot of the right things, which is great to hear. And I love that you're taking feedback that you're learning, you're hearing from the farmers markets and taking that and letting that inform some of your other decisions. From a scalability standpoint, is this a co-packer model? It sounds like you're blending a lot of this yourself. Are you self-manufacturing? Yes, I travel a couple of times a year. I try and work with as many small growers around the world as possible, whether that's India, Kenya, Sri Lanka, China, Japan. And so it works now because we're just doing a couple of hundred thousand kilos a year in tea.

32:41I know as we grow, I will have to work with a trade organization and or kind of a middleman to help us with that scalability. But trying to stay as close to the ground as possible for that leaf to cup process. But yeah, we still do everything in house. We have machinery, we have equipment where we are packing for consistency, but it is still us and me doing it all. Is this equipment and the facility that you have and the labor that you have right now, is that enough to support a big box retailer? Candidly, it's not, but we do know how to get there. We have the equipment lined up to grow. We're prepared for that.

33:23It's just one of those things, you know, the chicken or the egg, who goes first? Yeah. You know, I wonder, Brandy, have you guys, and you may have done this, have you approached Whole Foods locally? I did when I was doing all the things. Like I was the farmer's markets. I was the wholesaler. I was the person behind the bar. And at the time, I knew I wasn't ready. They asked. And so I politely declined. And as we have been growing, it's just not something I've circled back around to. The reason why I ask is because Whole Foods is, as you know, it's a company that is interested particularly in local brands.

34:09When you go in, it'll say locally made, and they're really open. The regional buyers are really open to bringing on local brands, and it's a great testing ground because you can go in. You start with a few stores. You can sample the product, and you can really build it out from there and focus on getting national distribution, which then becomes – then it's like – then it's a great launching package. to get to the Targets and the Kroger's and the other places. We've seen this with other brands on the show. New Me Tea. We did New Me Tea on the show several years ago. And that's why Whole Foods comes to mind, because it is a pretty innovative company when it comes to being open.

34:46Pete, you guys, I know you're at, you guys are at Whole Foods, I'm pretty sure, right? Yeah, we're at Whole Foods and most retailers nowadays. And I think, you know, God, it's a great idea too, because starting small and regionally like that, But for one, they're going to prioritize you guys, and they actually have a nice end cap in a lot of the stores to really drive trial. But what it's going to do for you is let you see what the velocities might be so you can forecast if I am successful here and then I have a national rollout, this is what it could potentially look like. Brandy, I want to give you some feedback on the branding side and on what I'm seeing on your website.

35:26Because what you've told us here is not clear on the website. I mean, you're doing three, four trips to Asia to source these tea leaves. I want to see you there. I want to see pictures of you at those tea farms. I want to read more about that. That's incredible that you are sourcing that. Also, there's something about the story of your grandmother and just the warmth of a hot cup of tea that I feel needs to be told somehow on the bag in a small way. I don't know if you're doing that, but I feel like that story about your grandma having different tea blends, growing up in that environment in New Orleans is so powerful.

36:09It's so much so that part of me is like I would even consider having blends with, I don't know, some names, maybe your grandma's name, you know, or just names that evoke your direct connection because you've got this double connection. You've got your grandma and growing up and then going to the tea farms and sourcing the tea yourself. I mean, that is an incredible story, and I want to see more of that up front. I totally agree. And we've got a brand video, which is very prominently displayed on the website. And we've got, it's Rashid and I, my co-founder and I, at the farmer's pastures with the animals, with the cows that they're raising.

36:51And we're out there shaking hands with people. We're out there eating dinner with them. And people love to see that. They want to know where their food comes from. And they also appreciate, I think, that the relationship that you have with those suppliers as well, just for them to see that firsthand is amazing content. And it makes them kind of fall in love with the brand a little more. And then to Guy's point, that should be all over your website. You've got to tell that story because that's something that no one else could replicate. No one else could take that from you, your grandmother's story.

37:22Grandma, New Orleans. I mean, are you kidding me? Totally ownable, totally differentiated. And it's just a crowded market, obviously, right? So if you're going into big box, what is it that's going to differentiate you guys? is creating that brand and that brand story around it and a real loyal following. So, yeah. I appreciate that. We do it on social all the time. Yeah. But, you know, because it's quick, easy snippets. But to have it on our website would be a great place for it to live. And on your bags. Put it on your bags. Yes, and on the bags. I tell that just a little paragraph. It doesn't have to be a novel.

37:55Yeah, because she lived to be 96, and she was just an amazing woman who was a great force in my life. So to pay homage to her, yeah, I totally should. I mean, maybe there's even like a stylized photo of her that you would put on it. I mean, something, anything like that. It's such a cool story. Um, Brandy, my takeaway here is consider starting with Whole Foods and just scaling from there. Cause I think, I mean, you have so much experience. Obviously you're making a great premium product. Now it's just a matter of, okay, let me take the next step. And then it's like one sort of pretty big step.

38:38And then one giant leap after that. I would say, um, you know, with this type of product, one of the other things, when you go into retail, don't fall into the trap of trying to compete on price. You are going to be the little guy coming into the space. Lean into your story. Lean into the premium aspects of the products and put a premium price on it because people won't have a problem paying for it as long as you're telling your story the right way. Yep. And tea is the new wine, Brandy. No one's drinking booze anymore. Everyone wants to drink. They want the flavors. They want the terroir. Well, thank you for spending your time with me today.

39:11I really appreciate all this feedback. Thanks, Brandy. Good luck. We'll be following you. Thank you. 96? She lived till 96 drinking tea. I mean, that's a selling point right there. You want to live till 96. I was going to say, maybe there's a longevity tea that we're missing. Right. We have a single skew and you just roll that out everywhere. I'd buy that right now. Right. I know. I know. And tea is like amazing. Tea has amazing impact on lowering like glucose levels. You got it all in tea. Exactly. Hey, we're going to take another quick break. But when we come back in just a moment, we're going to hear from our third and final caller.

39:46Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to The Advice Line on how I built this lab.

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42:12hey welcome back to the advice line here on how i built this lab i'm guy ross um pete let's what do you think should we take another call let's do it all right who is on the line i think it's i think it's jake is this jake this is jake how are you welcome jake introduce yourself tell us the name of your business and uh where are you from yeah my name is jake meyer i own annie alaska Inc. I am from Alaska originally, and we have a commercial salmon business out in Bristol Bay, out in the bush. And what's your question for Pete? Yeah, my big question is I'm trying to take our salmon that we catch and go the direct to consumer route if I should.

42:53I'm kind of exploring all the different options. We're in the baby stages. I just purchased this operation I used to work for, but the price for salmon is pretty volatile out in Alaska. And so what I'm nervous about is putting all our life savings into this company. And if we get a bad price, like we're probably going to lose a lot of the life we've tried to build. So that's why I'm trying to go direct to consumer, get a little bit better margins and make the business a little more stable rather than just hope that there's a good price. In this baby stage, we're pretty slim on cash. We just invested in two boats, four nets.

43:34I've tried a few different marketing strategies on Instagram and Facebook. We've tried Google ads. We've tried really just trying to get our name out there, at least here in Utah is where we live currently. But my questions are like, what's the best route to go in this baby stage? Is it advertising? Should I approach grocery stores? A lot of the stories that even you've told, Pete, have me kind of worried about even talking to grocery stores, or should I start there, then go direct to consumer? So you're going to be spending the summer, because that's the season, right, for fishing. You're going to be spending the summer, you yourself, presumably fishing for salmon, and instead of trying to sell it to distributors because there's less predictability, you want to go D to C.

44:22You want to go directly to consumers, ideally in Utah, and sell to people there because you know that you can get better prices. Is that more or less right? Yeah, that's correct. And how did you come into this world? How did you do, I mean, did you grow up fishing? Like, how did you come into starting this business? Yeah, so I was born and raised in a small little town, Kenai, Alaska. It's funny because I'm not a big fisherman. Fishing to me is more of a job. A lot of people die to go fish and for some reason go throw a line out and wait for a fish. But to me, it's a job. It's not my hobby of choice.

44:59I used to work for a good family friend. I was a deckhand and kind of got promoted to a captain. And I'm making this small percentage on a decent operation where the owners didn't really do anything. It was very hands-off. And the last year in a month, I made $40 ,000, but I was just the captain and the owners really, I saw the potential of, why don't I go buy this thing? And I would love to be in their position because I was only making a small percentage. And you can make enough for the entire year easily in one season. Like you can, you can, if it's a good season, you can crush, you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars, right?

45:39Yeah. The last year I was out there, the operation in six, it's about a six week season, but it pulled close to$350 ,000 net. That's after expenses. So that basically sets you up to, so you don't have to really do, you have to work for the rest of the year if it's a good season. Right. Yeah. And then on a bad season like this last year, it only made like maybe$40 ,000 or$50 ,000. And so that's where the volatility of the prices really scares me. So I'm excited for the happy years, but I'm also trying to prep for some storms and do DTC. Yeah. Jake, correct me if I'm wrong. It seems like you wanted to bring all the salmon to Utah and then distribute it at a site there.

46:27But I wonder, is there a world where you would consider working with a third party fulfillment group to ship salmon and then to maybe expand the potential customer base from just Utah? Utah, because I keep thinking about butcher bucks that we had on the show, but it sounds like you're going to be fishing these salmon. You're going to be cleaning them and butchering them, and you're going to be flying them to Utah and then delivering them to people. I mean, that is an amazing – that's an amazing service. So you're really going for a very premium product but to a relatively small customer base. Is that fair to say?

47:05Yeah, and maybe that's why we're just focusing on Utah. The one thing we do outsource is filleting. So there is a facility next to our operation that will fillet it and they have their licenses to fillet and things like that. But then they'll give it back to us and then it's up to us. I mean, who are we going to sell it to? So Pete, if he wanted to go into grocery, let's say, how would he start? So going into grocery is going to be just networking, right? So it's going to be walking into the grocery store. And by the way, the way I would start this is not going to the chains. I would go to independent grocery stores first.

47:41because you're not going to go to a big grocery chain and say, hey, I want to take over all of your salmon supply. You do need to show some track record. I think for any new item going to a grocery store, they do want to see some sort of record of success. So you've got to show that and get people comfortable with that. A few other things I would think about is how are you going to be packaging this? Is it going to be in fillets? I think I read somewhere that you keep the bones in, is that normal or are these usually de-boned? Because I actually don't buy a lot of salmon, quite honestly, so I just want to understand.

48:13No, there's bones. You got to get pliers and pull them out, Pete. You got to eat your salmon, Pete. What we really need, Pete, is we need to make salmon chomps. Yeah. That would sell. So that led me to another question for you is, you know, if selling the salmon fillets, if that is kind of a difficult and uphill battle, Is there some sort of value add product, whether it's canned salmon or is it salmon jerky or some other format that you can get into to go into grocery and help build a brand? Is that something to think about? To get in front of people now, one of the things that work for us the best is driving trial.

48:51And driving trial means like sampling. Like what can I do to get my product into people's mouths? Because that's what sells more chomps, right? I think that's one of the things that you need to do. I think it's really difficult to do that through a website. so you getting out to are you doing the farmers markets and and getting in front of people and try the product firsthand before asking them to buy so not yet an issue with farmers markets it's right during our salmon season so we're gone for most of them we do have a farmer uh they're pretty popular here in utah that they sell a lot of fruit and we have him on board he wants 3 000 pounds to just sell out of his, and that'll hopefully get the word out.

49:32We've given it out to everybody we know here in Utah, and we've gotten a few orders from there. We do have about 500 pounds ordered, but it was just this excitement on Facebook Marketplace was literally where 90 % of the 500 pounds came from, and then it's just kind of died. But Jake, you now have a few months before the season starts, right, before you are actually in Bristol Bay or wherever you're going to be fishing for the salmon, you have to use this time to sell and sell and sell, right? And so I'm looking at your website and reading a little bit about you. I see that you are a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

50:12It would seem to me that the natural place to start is in your community, right? It is with the people you know, emails, ask them to email people. I'm sure you've done versions of this, but you've got to do it again. And again, I mean, you know, this is a missionary. You got to knock on a hundred doors before one person's going to talk to you. Right. So it's about persistence, about going out there, talking about your product. And because it's your first year, you've got to start with the people, you know, because it's next year that you're working on. It's it's the repeat orders and the other people who are like, wow, where can I get that amazing salmon?

50:49Right. Does that make sense? Yes, 100%. And to be honest, I also, I did, after I fished on this boat, I went and did five years of door-to-door sales for solar out in California. Amazing. And I could go knock doors if that's what it's going to take, but are there better routes to get it off the ground? What if you can cut a deal with a local restaurant? What if you go to some local restaurants and say, look, I'm going to bring the best salmon in the United States here to Utah, And I will sell it to you for$12 a pound or something like that, just to see. But in exchange, I want you on your menu to say, this comes from any Alaska from Bristol Bay, something like that.

51:33Yeah, I've made a few phone calls there and, of course, probably not enough. I just don't know, should I go that route? Should I keep knocking those doors or which way to go? Knocking on doors is going to be your best bet, like hands down. I mean, if I could scale that with what I do, I would do that all day long because I'm going to get the sale, man, every time. And to be honest with you, someone actually knocked on my door yesterday selling meat and fish. And my wife's like, took his card and she's going to call him and she's going to order stuff. So it works and it worked at our house. So a few things here.

52:06So you have a really cool story. I was looking on the website, just reading about the family, the whole family angle, where you started, The fact that you like knocked on doors to go raise enough money to start this business is also really cool. I think you have a goldmine of various types of content that you should be putting out, getting out there, getting footage of you guys actually catching the fish. People want to find out, you know, they want to know where the product came from. This does not cost a lot of money. You could use your iPhone, put it on, you know, your social media channels, get it on TikTok, get it on Instagram.

52:39I think you have to start telling your story. Even if you've got 10 followers, people, you've got the benefits of wild salmon on your website, but shout it from the rafters. Go just use your iPhone. Go walk around wherever you are, if you're in Alaska or in Utah, and say, wild salmon is different than farm salmon. You know, farm salmon is not the same thing. And you only get fresh wild salmon these months of the year. And I can get it to you. Here's what's amazing about wild salmon. Yeah, Jake, I think leaning into recipes and cooking, if you could work with some chefs or maybe if your wife or you are a good cook, start doing that, show people how to use the product.

53:17I would probably leverage people getting exciting about the product being delivered to them or just, again, reviews, like people eating their dinner and enjoying your product and just have them talking to the camera saying, this is amazing, you should order it. Pete, what you're talking about is exactly what you should be focused on, Jake, which is setting yourself up for year two. Year one, it's going to be all about knocking on doors, talking to people, getting people, restaurants, whoever you can to order. But year two, it's getting those people who ordered to do exactly what Pete is saying, to write reviews, to post them on the website, have photos of what you're doing, recipes.

53:54I mean, you can take one of your salmon, you know, salmon tails and make gravlax, right? Salt, sugar, some dill. You wrap that thing up and slice it thin. You know how delicious that is, right? Yeah, of course. No, and we're our biggest consumer as of now. We eat it all the time. I super believe in it. Jake, do you have content from you guys fishing? Yeah, it's just not professional. And my wife and I, we're both trying to market it. And I'm the guy that I just want to push it, push it, push it, push it. And she's kind of the one that's like, no, that doesn't look good. That doesn't look professional.

54:29Just push that out. Just put it out. That's it, Jake. I think if you could just tell your family, your story exactly as is. What's on the website, tell that to the camera. Talk to it. Make a 30-second video and get everybody you can to share it now gearing up for this season. I think if you spend a couple days working on that, it doesn't have to be the best in the quality of the video. do not even worry about that because people totally get it. All right, Jake, my takeaway for you is knock, knock, knock, sell, sell, sell. Go out there now and start thinking about building your customer base for next season.

55:07This first season is going to be a little harder, but you got to go out there and you've got to pound the pavement and you've just got to make the sale. You know how to do it, clearly. So you got to start over and do that. Pete? I'm fired up by this I think you're on to something big here I commend you for pivoting the way you have and doing all the things that you've done to get to this point but don't stop now because you used to kick indoors and I think you need to do it again exactly what Guy said that's your big opportunity you go shaking hands with people and telling them what you're working on and they're going to want to support you Jake Meyer, Annie Alaska good luck, we'll be following you thanks so much I'll be knocking doors I really want to eat some gravlax right now I can't You're like a paleo guy I can't believe you don't eat salmon I don't eat any fish if I don't catch it And there's no salmon down here I eat a ton of mahi I eat grouper I eat snapper Smoked salmon I've had A friend of mine made that was amazing If I could replicate that I would do it Alright come to my house Next time you're up here in the Bay Area Awesome I'm in Pete, we've had bagels and salmon and tea.

56:21I mean, I love it. I mean, this is what I love about our show is that, you know, not everyone who listens is an entrepreneur or has a business, but a lot of people do. And I mean, you were there. You were there not that long ago trying to figure out, all right, how do we get this meat stick into one store and then five stores and then to 5 ,000 stores? Exactly. Again, it's just being bold and getting out and doing things that other people won't. And I think that's the name of the game. And you're going to get no's. I think that's the biggest thing. You'll hear more no's than yes's. And I preach this everywhere I go, but it's about being resilient.

56:57Set your eyes on the prize. Set your vision. And do not break it. Just keep going. Yeah. By the way, if you guys haven't heard the Chomps episode, it is so good. It's full of the best kinds of things that we love on our show. failure, setbacks, you know, crises, disasters, and then this incredible success story. So do check it out. And thank you for listening to the show this week. If you are working on a business and you would like some advice, you want to be on the show, send us a one minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you like help with. And please make sure to tell us how to reach you.

57:34You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com. or you can call 1-800-433-1298 and you can leave a message there. And we'll also put all this info in the podcast description so you can see it on your smartphone. Thanks for listening. Pete, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. And once again, if you want to be on the show, give us a call 1-800-433-1298 or send us a voice memo to hibt at id.wondery.com. This episode was produced by J.C. Howard with music composed by Ramtin Ereblui. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Gilly Moon. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Carla Estevez, Casey Herman, Chris Messini, Elaine Coates, Catherine Seifer, Carrie Thompson, Malia Agudelo, Neva Grant, and Sam Paulson.

58:24I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to The Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.

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