Advice Line with Travis Boersma of Dutch Bros

25:37And what were you doing before? I was a financial controller for a roofing contractor. So that was like a good opportunity just to kind of learn the workings of a business. Nice. Okay, cool. And tell me what's your question for us today? Yeah. So my question is, we seem to have a really strong following locally within our immediate area. We have struggled to get that same success outside of the area. Moving forward, we're hoping to grow the roasting side of our business. So my question is, would you go direct to consumer or pursue other wholesale partners, you know, other coffee shops or distributors and seeking out like grocery stores?

26:21All right. Lots to unpack there. Let's bring Travis in. Travis, we can either answer his question or you might have some more questions. Well, I mean, it's such an amazing business. I've had great joy in being in this industry. And how many varietals are you guys roasting? So right now we have about eight different coffees that we're roasting. So that's probably three or four single origins and three or four blends. Awesome. You know, when you have your blends and your varietals and you've got your roaster and you think your packaging and the shelf life and your consumers, your story, I think, is so critical to your success, you know, and what's the purpose or the why behind what you're doing.

27:03So if you're looking at a roastery and being a wholesaler versus a retailer, I think that's dynamically different. Do you have one way or the other that you're looking at more so? Yeah, I think if we're looking, say, five years from now, if we have our one brick and mortar and then we have a big direct-to-consumer business, that's something that gets me more excited. The dream is that, you know, we have a national footprint as far as where we're going, especially with our online sales. What? I mean, look, let's let's be honest here. We've had coffee brands on the show. There's a lot of coffee and it's like micro brewed beer.

27:44There's a lot of small breweries all over the United States. A lot of small coffee roasters across the U.S. Doesn't mean there aren't opportunities, a huge opportunities. But the question is, how do you differentiate yourself? Right. Tell me if you were going to. Los Angeles or San Francisco where I live and you were like, you got to try Pine Ridge coffee. I would say, well, I'm in San Francisco. I've got four barrels and ritual. Why yours? What's your answer? Yeah. I mean, we've just found a way with our roasting process. It's, you know, small batch roasted. It's allows us to really keep an eye on quality.

28:16It doesn't, you know, give you a bitter aftertaste, even like our darker roast. It finishes really smooth. Um, and it's just about, you know, we really care about the quality of our coffee. And Travis, your thoughts? You know, I would really dig deep. Like, how can you paint a picture for somebody that really looks at it and says, oh, here we go. Here's something really exclusive, unique, fun, cool. I want to give it a try. I totally agree with that, Travis. I mean, I'm looking at your website, and you've got to convey that. I mean, I don't think you need to spend tons of money and bells and whistles on your site.

28:53But you have to make it clear about all the things you just said. Let me make an analogy with wine. You can get the best grapes, the best harvest that season and give it to a really mediocre winemaker and you'll get mediocre wine. You can get really mediocre grapes and give it to the best winemaker and get great wine. And what you're telling me is you're a great winemaker. You know how to roast coffee beans. You believe you're in the top 10, 5, 1%. So that's a story you need to tell because that's interesting. That says to me, all right, this guy's like the roasting king. I got to try his coffee.

29:32Yeah. So do you have any feedback on like how we could convey that better through our website or through our social media channels? Yeah. I mean, Travis, I'm thinking about how when Dutch Bros began, people would come from Oregon and then the Pacific Northwest and they go to other parts of the country and be like, oh, you got to try this thing called Dutch Bros, right? You had these ambassadors. like that's the kind of momentum right that that really can help explode a brand and i feel like you've got an opportunity to do that at penn state because it's a massive university culturally significant i would try and lean in there and see if you can build a critical mass that really helps you grow this brand yeah i think that's well put yeah and and the other thing that that I would add to that is success leaves clues.

30:21There's so many things you can take away from a Chick-fil-A, a Costco, a Starbucks for that matter, a Dutch bros. And, you know, when you kind of look at all these different business models and you admire different ones, what do you admire about them? And can you cross pollinate ideas that maybe they do really well and incorporate them into what you do. You know, that's some of the things that I think we've done over the years that has been so beneficial. Yeah. We did an episode on La Cologne coffee many years ago. And Travis, you know La Cologne, right? It's obviously a competitor in some ways, but not really.

31:02But the guys who started that brand, it was a roastery in Philadelphia. And the way they got attention was they started serving it at fine dining restaurants in Philadelphia, and then they went to New York City. And so you'd have customers go to these super fancy restaurants, and they'd say, what's this coffee? And they'd say, it's called La Colombe. And that's really how they built it out. And so going back to what, Travis, what you were talking about earlier with baby steps, to me, there's an opportunity to take some of those baby steps here because you believe you've got something special, but just seeing Pine Ridge Coffee isn't enough.

31:36And I think you got to focus on really building out the brand through other retailers. Yeah, the more people that you can put your product in front of, the better. So yeah, I definitely really appreciate the advice they're trying to kind of really hone in in the State College area and see what we can do as far as gaining some momentum in that market. Yeah. Trent Yoder, Pine Ridge Coffee. Good luck, man. Good luck, Trent. Thank you. I appreciate your time today, guys. Thank you very much. Thank you. It's so interesting with coffee, right? Because when you started in 92, it was still like espresso drinks were still like, that's when people still said expresso, right?

32:14Yeah. Can I have an expresso? Oh my gosh. I mean, it was a massive learning curve. We're educating people on what espresso coffees were. Yeah. And people will be like, a latte. Ooh, fancy. We'd have people come up and say, I'll take a cappuccino. And they'd look at them like, and do you want that real frothy and foamy? And they'd look at me like, uh, and I'm like, how about I make you a vanilla mocha and you check it out and see if you like it. And if you don't, I'll make you that cap. I love it. Yeah. All right. We're going to take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller.

32:51Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to The Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.

33:04Ever had one of those afternoons where your brain just quits on you? You're sluggish, hangry, maybe even a little foggy. What if it's your glucose? See, glucose is an energy currency for your mind and body. When it's stable, you're on point. When it crashes, so can you. That's why Lingo is so interesting. Lingo is a glucose wearable designed to help you connect the dots between your glucose and what you eat, how you move, and how you feel. It shows your glucose data in real time. Instead of guessing, you see the impact of your choices. Maybe that healthy snack is actually sending your glucose on a roller coaster.

33:41Or that afternoon walk is the perfect stabilizer. It's about unlocking your consistent best all day long by truly understanding your body's unique responses. Get to know your glucose and learn about how to build healthy habits that work for you with Lingo, designed for you by Abbott. Through November 30th, use code GUI10 on HelloLingo.com to get 10 % off a Lingo plan purchase, one use per customer. This offer cannot be combined with other offers, U.S., Puerto Rico, and U.K. only. The Lingo glucose system is for users 18 years and older, not on insulin. It is not intended for diagnosis of diseases, including diabetes.

34:21Individual responses may vary. Shopping for eggs should be simple. A happy hen makes a happy egg. And that's why eggs from Happy Egg are so delicious. Happy Egg partners with family farms across the Midwest to raise happy hens outdoors. The proof is inside the shell. A tasty orange yolk. It's the difference you can see and taste. I just made an incredible omelet with eggs from Happy Egg. It was delicious and so fresh. Once you crack open a happy egg, you can see and taste the difference right away. It's obvious. Visit www.happyegg.com slash built to find happy egg near you.

35:18Welcome back to the device line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and today I'm taking your calls with Dutch Bros' Travis Borsma. Travis, let's get back into it and take another call. Sounds great. Hello, welcome to the advice line. You're on with Travis Borsma of Dutch Bros. Hello, please introduce yourself, tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business. Hi, Guy. Hey, Travis. My name is Yasmin Santos. I am the sole founder of Alternative Bar. It's a non-alcoholic elixir bar serving functional beverages that enhance mood and mind. We're currently operating as a cater bar, offering a white glove turnkey solution for events in Austin, San Francisco, and Miami.

35:59Awesome. Yasmin, thanks for calling in. So it's altar, like an altar, like at a church, altar native bar. That's right. All right. Let me just see if I understand this. It's like it's a bar service. So you guys would be hired for like a corporate event, but you don't sell alcohol. You sell alternative non-alcoholic beverages. That's right. Yeah, we use botanics and nootropics that do facilitate a state change as an alternative to alcohol. All right. So basically, these are mood, mind-enhancing beverages. This is not like non-alcoholic beer. These are like, what are those? Not ashwagandha. It's not LSD.

36:40It's not LSD. It's not magic mushrooms or THC. It's that thing that everybody goes to Mexico to do. Ayahuasca. It's not that, but basically it's legal stuff that has a kind of a buzz effect. 100 % legal. I like to say they're benevolent botanicals. They are potent, but they're not as powerful, I guess, as your typical substances like alcohol and cannabis. All right. And so tell me how this idea came about to start this business. So I was the caretaker for my mother. She had early onset dementia. And we got to a point where she was bedridden. And even though she wasn't verbal, we could tell there was a lot of pain and discomfort.

37:28So I started exploring non-pharmaceutical solutions for that and came across a few. And then I was like, wait a second. I don't drink. I have some pains, especially like socially. I still have social anxiety and inhibition like anybody else. what if there are plants that could resolve this for me and i came across uh kava and a few other plants and started experimenting doing some kitchen witching and came across more and more plants that that really serve our bodies so basically right because a lot of people use a little bit of alcohol at a party as a as a social lubricant to kind of loosen them up and And you're saying you have this challenge, which I get because I do too.

38:14I hate going to parties, but you don't drink alcohol. But this using these herbs kind of helped you a little bit. Totally. I'm using them right now. Wow. When Kava is, I've actually had some experience with Kava in Fiji where we sat down and they do the whole ritual. And it's like over the course of hours. And it's amazing. I mean, and you have this feeling of like, it's almost like a euphoric kind of outer body experience. And it's very light, but it's incredible and it's energetic. And all right, so you're based in Austin and you're doing right now, you're offering like events, like a catered event, but like a corporate event or a wedding where there's this alternative bar.

38:57And who are the kinds of clients? Who are the people who are hiring you? The first event we booked was for a, it's called Young Women's Alliance. They are an organization of professional women here in Austin. I would say more mindful, health conscious people, and also corporate wellness programs that want to be inclusive of sober, sober curious, everybody. Got it. Okay. And before I forget, what's your question for us? I would love any advice you have for someone like me who's looking to scale this business into the mainstream. And what are some companies that I can use as a model? Cool. Travis Borsman, I'm going to start with you.

39:41The man from Dutch Bros brought it from a coffee cart to 970 locations. Well, I guess the first question I've got is, do you want to take it to the masses or do you want to stay in a niche market? I want to go to the mainstream. okay so does that mean like products on shelves and grocery and things like that i would love to see that as well as either the cater bar concept or brick and mortar in cities across the u.s i want to bring the plants to the people we've expanded into cpg we just did our first run of an adaptogenic blend what is it like like a tincture like a yes you got it it's a tincture we've got a blend of rhodiola and schissandra and it supports energy endurance and ease where are you selling it uh we'll do e-commerce of course going to do shopify and then i'd love to get some on shelves in austin and san francisco and grow from there i think you know another business maybe is it along the same lines as maybe taking kombucha to the masses where you know you could use that as a model maybe of some of the product that you have, but that's sounds similar to me as far as like exposing a product that has health properties to it that are good for you, that you really want to educate people on.

41:02And that's one of the ways with Dutch Bros, you know, espresso coffee in 92, people didn't know what espresso was. A lot of people didn't know. And so we had to educate people on it a lot, but it got its own momentum and certainly Starbucks helped everybody with that. But I think, you know, if you're looking for a model out there, my inclination would go to a kombucha company, maybe. Yeah. The other thing that comes to mind, Travis, is Guayaquil. Guayaquil Yerba Mate. Guayaquil Yerba Mate, which was on our show a couple of years ago. And that was a long journey. It's like 20 years before they started making money because, and by the way, that brand, right, They started out selling loose tea, yerba mate, to people, and they would go to concerts and festivals.

41:50And they started this in the 90s. And people would try it, and it was bitter, and they didn't like it, and they didn't understand it. And it was a slow, methodical process. They spent 20 years driving around in a bus from festival to festival. The game changer for them at the end of the day was making bottle tea, right? And then now they make cans. and eventually adding sugar and other flavors. But to me, a tincture is interesting. The bar business is interesting, but that's hard to scale. The bar business could be an opportunity to introduce a product or the product to an influential crowd. You're in Austin.

42:32Obviously, South by Southwest happens there every year, one of the most important cultural events in the world. I think there's a good chance that someone's going to hire you to run a bar at South by Southwest, what about ready to drink beverages? You know, what about cans or bottles of your drink? You know, I have considered that. I'm a longtime listener of your show. And for whatever reason, I can't remember what episode it was, but I am very intimidated by the beverage space. That's fine. Travis, okay to be intimidated. Yeah. You know, I think, I mean one of the things is to get comfortable with being uncomfortable yes and you know I sat down with those guys from Guayaquil 25 years ago they came to our coffee house and we passed a bombila around with gourd and the loose leaf and I mean it was it was this year it was awesome man I mean it was like I felt like I was breaking the law but it was totally cool I think when you can provide those experiences and you can go spread your product and and you see the joy that you have with it, I mean, you're so proud of it.

43:40And that's, that's so amazing because when you can share that with people that creates momentum, focused intensity over time, multiplied by faith or, or God or whatever you want to put in that, you know, your creator, then it creates momentum. And I think that, you know, if, if you keep on doing what you're doing and you, you just let it evolve and you let it have fun with it, enjoy it, you know, try not to rush it, but, but just be methodical about it. I also, I love the idea, Yasmin, that you say that you're intimidated by this, which is, which means that probably it might be the right direction to go into and pursue, right?

44:18Because think about it for a moment. The beverage industry and the ready to drink is, it's very, it's a packed industry, right? But so is liquor. So is coffee. There's always an opportunity. There's always a wormhole. There's always a niche you can find. And what you're talking about is tiny. I mean, very few people are doing these no tropics drinks. It's a little weird and different. It's like liquid death. Wait, what? This is water? It's not malt liquor? You know, people picked it up because it was so weird, right? And it now, you know, raised at a$1.4 billion valuation or something. So I think that it's worth thinking about a simple, ready to use um ready to drink easy to translate to explain product the tincture is cool but it requires people to like okay you put this in water and how much and you're it's a very small crowd of people who'd be willing to play around with that a can that you open up simple and and the other thing is like the way you told your story to us i i think that there's so much value in your storytelling?

45:30You know, what can it do for you? What are the health properties with it? Why is this so amazing? And who are the people that are consuming it? And can you, you know, ride the wave with their momentum on how they live this healthy, extraordinary lifestyle? You know, you've both alluded to my approach to this business. I surf. And what I've noticed is that, uh, so waves come in sets, right. It could be three, five, 12. And I've noticed that the first waves of the set usually aren't the best ones, at least in my experience. And so the approach that I take to surfing is I wait for my wave. Like I might be a little bit further back in the lineup and, um, may take a few waves to get warmed up and, and an easy paddle back.

46:14Like, um, and I'm waiting for that rogue wave that I'm perfectly positioned to take that I don't have to compete for and have a clear line of sight. And maybe the RTD is that way. It might be. And I think as you start to think about this idea and maybe build out a plan, you'll have more clarity. Do you need to raise some money? Do you need to start asking people for money? There are plenty of people who started beverage shrinks with very little money, five or 10 grand, and just do a test run. There's obviously a lot of co-packers out there who who can, you know, who can work with. So I think that it's really worth at least putting some thought into building up the brand because with the bartending platform, especially if you're going to places like Miami and San Francisco, Austin, really sort of important places to showcase products, having something that people can pick up could be really cool.

47:14My heart agrees. yeah well i'll tell you what i you know your energy with this is is incredible and i would just encourage you to keep going and and asking yourself how you can perform better and what you could do to make it even more appealing and and who are the people that you want to to have involved in it we use this little ultimate success formula it's know your specific outcome take massive action toward it ask yourself the action you're taking is working and change until it does. And it's like, it can, you can use that in everyday life with anything, but that's, that's something that has served us in evolving and growing and getting to this place where we have this giant vault secret menu, if you will, that creates all these custom concoctions that people really want.

48:05And I think when you, when you identify what they want, you're able to deliver it to them in a way that is meaningful and has a story behind it that they can be proud of you you're going to see a ton of momentum happen amazing okay yasmin santos alternative bar uh congrats and good luck can't wait to see you build thank you so much to you both all right thanks man that kava experience sounds like sounds like something man it was really cool you know in fiji i don't know of other parts of the world but i mean that's something that they do collectively together for hours on end and over the course of time then you can get to this place of kind of this euphoric, out-of-body kind of experience.

48:46And it's not hallucinogenic at all. It's just like, you know, this floating state change, very similar to Guayaquil in a way. Yeah, it's cool. There's a lot of interest around these nootropics and, you know, brain-enhancing herbs. And the reality is, you know, alcohol consumption is in decline in the United States, for better or worse. I mean, I think that younger people aren't drinking as much wine or spirits. And so there may be an opportunity. Yeah, yeah. Travis, before I let you go, I want to ask you a question that I've been asking every return guest on the show. If you could go back, you know, and tell yourself and a younger version of you and Dane, you know, just give them some advice about what to expect or some encouragement when you guys were starting out and it was tough going.

49:37What would you say to yourself? You know what? I think the first thing that I'd probably say is adapt or die. Because the world is changing around us. It's all sorts of different ways, shapes, sizes, forms. And, you know, with COVID, it's an example of something that you just can't anticipate that hits you. And if you don't adapt, you're dead. Amazing. I love it. That's Dutch Bros Coffee co-founder Travis Boersma. Travis, thanks so much, man. Thank you, Guy. Always cool, man. Awesome having you. By the way, if you guys haven't heard Travis's original How I Built This episode, again, one of the best episodes, so good.

50:23Go back and check it out. You'll find a link to it in the podcast description. And here is one of my favorite moments from that interview. you? We opened our first day downtown Grants Pass next to the post office. And Dane was like, I don't know if I could do it, man. He's kind of hiding out in the back. What do you mean he couldn't do it? Why? He just, I think all of a sudden it just kind of all like, oh my God, this is real. We're doing it. Yeah. And I'm like, hang on, dude. I'm going to go make you a little eight ounce mocha. Yeah. And I'm going to put some tunes on. Yeah. And so I put on some Led Zeppelin going to California and I got him a coffee and I said, hey, man, it's on.

51:11Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at GuyRoz.com or on Substack. And of course, if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us a little bit about your business. and the questions or issues you are currently facing, because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com or call us at 1-800-433-1298. You can leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you.

51:48And by the way, we'll put all of this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Sam Paulson with music composed by Ramteen Arablui and Sam Paulson. It was edited by John Isabella and our audio engineer was Sina Lafredo. Our production team at How I Built This also includes Alex Chung, Carla Estevez, Chris Messini, Elaine Coates, J.C. Howard, Catherine Seifer, Carrie Thompson, and Neva Grant. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to The Advice Line on How I Built This Lab.

52:20If you like How I Built This, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. For a limited time, earn up to 200 ,000 bonus points with the IHG One Rewards Premier Business Card. Visit ihg.com slash business card. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC offer subject to change. Terms apply.