Ep. 433: Elements of Timeless Style with Erin Gates

0:01Welcome to How to Decorate from Ballard Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline. I'm on the marketing team. And I'm Taryn, and I'm a product designer. I'm Liz. I head up the creative team. We're your hosts. Join the expert team at Ballard Designs for tips, tricks, and tales from interior designers, stylists, and other talents in the design world. Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at the end of each episode. We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email us at podcast at ballardesigns.net. Now on with the show.

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1:12It's a short intro because we've got a lot to get to. Erin, welcome back to the show. Thank you for having me. Okay, your first book, Elements of Style, same name as your blog, was published in 2014. 2014 was a runaway success, as we were talking about. Lots of reprints, hundreds of thousands of copies sold. And that was 2014. You wrote your second book in 2019. And here you are, six years later, your third book, Elements of Timeless Style. You mentioned in the introduction that you never planned to write a third book. So where did this come from? What was it that you needed to say in this third book?

1:51It wasn't that I needed to say anything specifically. It was that I really like things in threes. Bizarre. Like, I was like, two felt wrong. And I was like, I really was torn. And I had said no, and I had not planned on writing another one. But COVID hit and had some time. And although we got really, really busy actually during COVID, But this was at the beginning and I had bought my new house and my editor at the time, who has since retired, kept texting me, I really think this house is a book. I really think this house is a book. And I'm like, oh, no. And then she wore me down. She wore me down.

2:32I was like, OK. And then they like, you know, offer you a certain amount of money and you're like, yeah, I should probably do one more. One more. but also I hadn't been able to do a book where and this is how this book differs from the other two where it's all my work and it's by project it's not by room type which is both the first and second book are by you know kitchen living room primary bedroom and this is nine full homes different types and styles and I thought not only would that be nice to have a record of but also talk about this home that I really do feel is where I'll be, if not forever, for a very, very significantly long time.

3:21And I just got, I felt like a lot of books and content was flipping and more like quick fixes or the opposite, like completely unreachable design. So this is kind of like what I see and what I work with every day, which is like a certain you know size or type of house and type of family that wants to create something permanent or you know designing for themselves not for resale so that was kind of the impetus for the book yeah so you I love well first off I love the introduction because I used to read your blog and you know as you've gotten busier like you've had a lot of life since your last book and so it It was fun to kind of get that little update on everything going on.

4:13And, you know, you talked about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so honest. And you talk about finding your house, this forever house. So walk us through that. Like, you know, it's kind of a fun story. You know, not thinking that it was right and then showing up. So give everybody that whole story and, you know, tee us up. Um, so we were, you know, the house I was in that I featured in the second book. Um, I, we finally, after we had Emma during the pandemic and we were all locked inside and that house was small, it was like 1500 square feet. Um, and there were three of us. And at the time I had two caregivers for my kids who were actually taking care of each different child because I didn't want them over a long story, but COVID really made me a little bit nutty.

5:08And being postpartum during COVID was a whole other hurdle, which I do talk about. So I was like, we need more space. We need a bigger yard. Like all the things that I didn't think were that important pre-COVID became like very important. Like I need room for an office. I need room. I need a gym. I need like a big yard. I need, you know, all these different things. And And I made offers on so many houses, I can't even count. And none of them came together. And I do think there is sometimes it's heartbreaking and sometimes it's for a reason. And this house came on and my husband was like, that house we've driven by in Wellesley is for sale.

5:50And I'm like, we're not buying that house. It's on a main road. Like, it's on a main road. And I'd seen it a million times. Like, if you drive through my town, it's like very prominent. and I mean it's set back from the road but it's just a really charming beautiful stately kind of home and working for other designers I'd come out here all the time and I'd always clocked it and been like that's such a pretty house and but I was like absolutely not like location location location busy road big no that's a big no um but it has this like 40 foot long white picket fence in the front and it's just it is really like it does have some good curb appeal so I was like still no I was like but you can go and look at it and so he went with my dad who's an architectural designer and real estate developer and my dad usually shoots down every house I show him he like finds every single flaw and so I was like yeah take him with you uh and my dad called me like five minutes after they got here and he was like get your butt over here this is your house and I was like what are you crazy like the house on the busy road you're you're always telling me location location um so I came over and it was like a packed packed open house um and they already had an offer uh before the open house was even over and um everyone's in masks you know it was still that time where it was like it's October 2020 and um I walked through and then we walked into the back and from the street you can't tell that this house has a massive like backyard we are on an acre which here is a ton of land um it's semi you know it's not it's suburban but like you can get into Boston in 15-20 minutes so we went out back and we were like there's like woods back here and like we could put like who knows a pool there was a barn with three stories I was like holy crap and all the systems had been redone the roof had been redone the windows had been redone but the interior hadn't been redone which for me is like bingo because I don't I like my money where I can see it like I'm glad someone else had updated and they were frankly low-balling the house so I was like maybe this is my house um so we did put an offer in and there ended up being like four or five by the end of the day um that first day and this wasn't even when the real estate market was hot like this was still people were like what's COVID gonna do the world um and so we found out that the owners had lived here for 25 years and raised three daughters here and put them all through the school system and we wrote them a letter and with a picture of our family and, you know, told them like, we will be stewards.

8:37The next stewards, we're only the fourth owners of this house and it was built in 1895. And they picked us, which was awesome. And so we ended up getting the house and it was the first time I've ever bought a property and that had an absolute mental breakdown thinking I'd made the wrong decision after finding out we got it. So I felt like that was a sign. So awesome. Yeah. And it's such a beautiful home. It's yeah, it's not at all what I ever thought I would buy. Like I am a colonial Greek revival girl through and through, through and through. And this is like empire style. So it's like got a lot of French elements to it.

9:21But the windows are like floor to ceiling. They're massive. And I love that. And 11 feet, Like the ceilings are 11 feet in my kitchen and family room. And it's like the basement was a good height and we could, you know, it was already partially finished. And all these so many window seats. Love a window seat. It was just like all these little things that added up to be like, it smacked me right in the face. Like this is for sure it. And thankfully we got it. Yeah. Has your has this new house changed your the way you design it all you think like has it changed your perspective at all? um yes and no i would say you know you have to kind of it's tested me in as far as like you have to respond to the environment and scale like my last house my ceilings were seven foot six um so to move into something with 11 you really have to you know get back into the shape of like okay i gotta really focus on the scale of stuff as opposed to just like oh i like that couch you have to think like oh the seat in the back need to be a certain height in order for it to not to look totally minuscule in this room at 11 feet um so i think like scale i think became important and as we did so we did two renovations i think each renovation i learned a lot um and i made smarter and smarter decisions as i went along and i made a couple really dumb ones um which i'll happily admit everyone does it even designers um but I think like this house is more elegant than my last house my last house was definitely a little more casual and typical this house is a little bit unique and a little bit more dramatic so I'm kind of leaning more into that side but okay I let's see I I it's been five years I've been here it'll be five years in October that we bought it and I'm ready to start over.

11:17I just reject it. No. And it's like, not like renovate, but like, I'm already like, yeah. Like I'm happy with all the renovation choices I made. It's like, well, maybe a new chair in here, some new drapes in here. He's like, okay. So an evolution versus a renovation. I think it is an evolution. Like I would never get rid of like the mural wallpaper in my dining room. Never. It was the first decision I made when we bought this house, and it will never change. Mark my words, that will never change. It's just something that is so classic and permanent. But then you can tweak things. Like, I was too scared when we moved in to do a bolder color drape in there.

11:58It's just, I was like, I can't do that. Like, that's not safe. You know, it's like, and now it's been five years. I'm like, you know what? This paper would look better with a really bright chartreuse drape. That would be so amazing in here. Like, I've matured to trust myself within my own home even more now. So it's not that things like I would never rip anything out at this point. It would be more of like tweaking what I've started as I grow older and the kids get bigger and our needs change. So I think that's why I hope this book is helpful is that like the stuff that's nailed down literally.

12:35Like, you've got to be super smart about what you choose and you can have fun. but like you're putting a lot of money and investment into those choices and like I wouldn't change my kitchen I wouldn't change my bathroom I wouldn't change any of that my drapes sure anything that's soft or soft goods seating like those are always sort of I feel like in flux they are because especially for someone like you you see so many things all the time you know there's always a new fabric and a new color and it's the hardest collection and yeah It's like, oh, well, now you see everything. This is why it's so hard, at least for me.

13:11And I feel like most designers, I am my worst client by far. Like, talk about not being able to make up her mind. It's because I see, like, everything. Every day I'm, like, absolutely overwhelmed with all the options in the world. And it's like, I always say, I'm like, I could have a modern house and I would do it this way. And I could have, like, a really formal house. And I could have a country house. And I could do a bungalow. And I'm like, I need more houses because they can't all come out in this house. But it is, yeah, it's stuff that, you know, you want to buy well with certain things and buy once with certain things.

13:52And then there's other things that you just know you'll be updating or changing as your tastes evolve or your kids get stuff messed up. Happens. well i do think that's a great lesson actually for listeners because um because there's so much it's easy to want all of it and to fall in love with lots of things but using your own house and your own situation as your guardrails just like you would buying an outfit if you're like oh like that's not going to flatter me yeah like is it going to flatter your house you know keep that same sort of mentality because you could go in any direction but that doesn't mean you should you know that yes exactly it doesn't mean you should yeah i think it's like there's nothing that bugs me more is when you're trying to force something into a house that obviously it's not right for just because you're like oh well it's cool and so and so has it well doesn't really matter like there are really cool super modern things that i adore that would just not work in this house like there's modern little aspects of my house and I love that mix but like or like very country things or very like a color that's not going to really work but doesn't you can appreciate them but you're right like having the guardrails of like I think it's really important to respect the architectural style of your house and not try to stray super far from that and having touchstones in the interior that reflect that era of your home.

15:23And I mean, unless it's a, you know, 2026 modern farmhouse, like there's gotta be some touchstones of like where, where, when this was built and who's lived here. And I just, I love that adding that to a house and kind of using that as some of my inspiration. So yeah, I want to make sure that It feels organic. And you definitely do that in the projects, you know, because the format of the book, the first half is really your own house, your journey, renovating your forever home. And then the back half is all of the nine projects. And there is so much variety in there, which I love to see. There was a lot of layered color.

16:02There was city. There was, you know, coastal. There was so much. There's like rustic country. Like my clients are very varied. And I think what I am proud, like the most proud of for our firm and for me as a designer is that I really, truly do not have a standard look. That especially in this book, I think you can see that, that we really do try to filter our client's taste through our lens and our expertise. and I think you can go from like one project that's like very California country rustic to another one that's like sleek and dark and like more modern and then another's you know like a condo in New York and like and then a beach house like in Maine like there are that variety and I think each one looks so different and I think that's what I am most proud of I think is that ability for us to really make these individual and unique homes that reflect our clients and not necessarily like, oh, Aaron Gates must have done this house.

17:10Which is great and it works for a lot of people. And, you know, sometimes I envy that because everything looks cohesive in their portfolio and mine, like all over the place. But it is kind of exciting to be working on multiple projects at once that are vastly different in aesthetic because it gets your creative juices flowing and you can't get lazy. Do you ever sort of, maybe not intentionally, but unintentionally use something from one to another? You know, like, for example, if you're like, oh, I just did this thing that was like really coastal and we use XYZ, but I could kind of work here in a different way.

17:51Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because that could be kind of fun. We always joke there are like certain things that you could probably do like a Where's Waldo in our projects and like find the same like either like some accessory. Like there's like a couple of vases I really love and buy for like every project or like Ottomans that I just you'll see. It's embarrassing. But like I use the same counterstool all the time because it's the best counterstool ever made. That was going to be my joke. yeah yeah every project book too has the same exact counterstool and i didn't even notice that until we put the book together and i actually saw it all together and i was like oh my god erin like but it really is like we show people other versions and they're like no i want that one the one that you have and i'm like yeah but there's so many other ones um but it really is it's a good one yeah lawson fanning it's it's amazing and it's exactly it's like it fits with modern if it's a traditional it fits with like it's just a great and it's really comfortable um so it just works and same with like there's there was something else there's like a a certain dining chair i really really like that i've used in multiple i've used in a city condo i've used in my own home i've used in a coastal home like there are some pieces that are just so good that you can use them literally anywhere there are yeah it's what you put them with that that really tailors it to how you upholster it it's what you pair it with it's the finishes you twos it's you know it's all of that and there are some things that are real chameleons that really can work just about anywhere so yes we definitely have favorites I mean that is absolutely not to say that we don't reuse certain pieces a lot because they're tried and true and I think people also are like yeah well if you love it I'm like I can stand there and say I know this is super comfortable I know it's durable I know it's great it's a good you know all these things and um it's they come in multiple finishes so that's exactly so yeah and you know the louis chair there's there's a lot of yeah a lot of those are vintage um but there are like some are new some are like you can't really always tell like one might be from a high-end place but the ones in my home are from cherish then they got them for like all 12 for like 400 so it's like you know So like you can either like there's different levels of that style, but that style dining chair is never going away.

20:19Like it looks good with a modern table. It looks great with a traditional table. It depends on the fabric you choose and the finish. And it's just, yeah, it just works. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with some good classics. Classics are classics for a reason. mm-hmm yeah well and plus you know if when you are buying those pieces you can I guess rest easy that you can use them in the next yeah a next house maybe if you're not in your forever home yeah um oh there no matter what you know where you move to like there you'll find a place for yes something that's for sure and I've reupholstered stuff I've had stuff I've brought There's pieces I've brought from, God, like my first condo probably still here.

21:06Like, there are pieces that are just worth hanging on to and are just always going to be in style because they're just really well made and the design is enduring. You talk in the book about encouraging, well, doing it yourself and also encouraging your clients to live in their house for a while if they can before renovating. so that you can really think through all of the decisions and make sure that they're what you really want. So I'm curious if there's anything that you changed course on after living in your house or things you did differently maybe than you initially thought and just some examples that might help people.

21:47Yeah, I think because we did our renovation in two phases, our initial renovation was just kind of like redoing two bathrooms and a facelift on the kitchen if I had done the full gut at the outset I probably would have made some mistakes one of them being like we thought we could get everything within our footprint that we had for our kitchen renovation and after living in it we realized we couldn't so while our addition was really minimal basically we enclosed our side porch to become our mudroom and we turned our old mudroom into a butler's pantry which I was didn't think I needed but then after having two kids get busier and older and realizing like our kitchen has like four cased openings coming into it so there's limited wall space I was like we really do need and I don't think I would have put that addition on if I had done it before I moved in um so we did live here for two years before we did the big renovation.

22:50I also ended up, instead of expanding, this room was my primary when we moved in. And instead of expanding this into a bigger primary, we ended up combining two rooms on the other side of the house to become the primary and reshuffling things where the laundry room is now where my closet was. And in this room specifically, we ended up putting these little closets in with jib doors because we had to remove that. Like there was just a lot of, a lot more moving around of things, um, of locations than I would have expected at the beginning. And I think it's some, but it doesn't always have to be that big.

23:31Like it's also like, even if you're just in a house for six months before you pull the plug on a renovation, like when, what door are you using all the time? You assume you're going to use this front door or whatever, but maybe you end up coming in a different door. And when you do, do you have a place to put your keys in your mail down? Do you not like little things like that like where you kind of see how the flow works day to day with your lifestyle and and how you live in a space and how much storage you actually need or how high traffic a certain area is I think it's really it's really helpful and beneficial to take that time to really just try living in it for a bit before you finalize a renovation plan or order furniture because maybe the orientation of the sofa where you thought it would go, the sun sets right in your eyes or something, you know, and you can't see the TV.

24:24Like there are little things that just kind of will lock you in if you make the decision without actually being in a space for some time. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling, smart move. Another smart move? Getting help from one of State Farm's 19 ,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto. Bundling, just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state.

25:00Yeah, I would think natural light could be a big one too. Yeah, cute. If you're renovating and not, you can never get a feel for the natural light when you're just touring it before buying, you know, it's something that you really have to, especially, and even like all all the different seasons yeah yeah it's just helpful and like i'm about to start a kitchen renovation where this family did they live for a year and it's like she's like the kitchen is now falling apart but now i know exactly what i want and i'm like great like you know it sucks in the moment but long term it's you gain so much knowledge living in a space um and you also So find the quirks, you know, like, but yeah.

25:42And financially, too. And you speak to that, like you you've learned to like hold off. It's going to cost a lot of money. So like take a second, take a beat, make sure it's what you want. And that's what you did with the phase one. And then like, all right, we're going to do a big one, but we're going to wait. Like, how do we make this livable? That's why I wanted I really wanted to convey that in the book is it felt wasteful at the time when I did my second. And I really assumed I wanted my first renovation, my facelift renovation. I was like, I need this to be good enough that I'll be happy here for five to eight years.

26:16Because I really didn't think the big renovation was going to happen that soon. It happened only after two and a half years. So that's why I tried to repurpose a lot of the things that I did use in that initial facelift. The same plumbing fixtures, lighting. I even reused the counters we replaced in the main kitchen we ended up saving them and cutting them down and using them in the butler's pantry because I wanted to feel like well that wasn't all money out the window. But I do think like I knew I didn't want to do that gut reno until I could do it 100 % to the max like the exact way I wanted it with the custom hood and you know all the things.

26:57the things it's better to wait and spend more later than to get impatient and spend less because you're not you're ultimately not going to be as happy and then you may end up redoing it again anyway and yeah to get it to where you really wanted it to go and then you're spending more money than you would have if you just waited it's patience is not my favorite thing nor one a scale that I'm you know talented at but in this case um I tried to do the right thing by like phasing it out and of course we kept like the bathrooms that we renovated exactly the same but the kitchen did end up changing a lot um so I I hope that shows people a what you can do on a limited budget with a facelift but also that like waiting is you can you can you can create something that's temporary and still really pretty to get you through until you can really like do exactly what you want it goes for furniture too like same thing doesn't always have to be a renovation like buy something temporary that's really cheap and wait or or keep what you have and wait until what you really want is within your range i love your honesty about your own renovation and like, you know, where to go high and where to go low on all of the materials.

28:19And I also really loved all of the takeaways after every project. I thought that was just really fantastic. And it's just great to know that even the experts are learning from their renovations just as much as we are. Yes. So what do you think your biggest learnings were from either your own home renovation or from any of the projects that you feature? I think over time, I would say hiring the best people you can, that you can afford, will save you money in the long run, even if it's more expensive. Like in this business, there's a lot of people that will lowball you and to get the bit to get the work.

29:05I see this all the time with my clients. And, you know, it's it's enticing to look at that low, low number and be like, well, of course, why would I go with something else? We've got to look at it holistically and make sure you do, you know, you check references and you make sure that these are good people to work with. I think, luckily, I haven't had a horrific experience personally, but I have clients who have. And it's so heartbreaking. So I think because it's financially and emotionally really, really taxing. um so I think overall all my years of designing that is um my number one takeaway is hire people you are happy to be with and talk to and collaborate with who listen to you who respect you who who will shoot straight and be honest about the things that go wrong and take accountability for those mistakes.

30:03It happens to all of us. I mean, if I mess up, I'm the first one to be like, this chair came in, it doesn't fit. My bad, I own it now. And, you know, we're going to pick a new chair, you know, like, but there are people who won't do that. And so I think it's like taking your time to really interview and hire people that you trust and enjoy. This is the, you know, creating homes, whether it's building, renovating, decorating. It's a very personal, long process. So I am happy that I've had a ton of repeat clients and that a lot of my clients become friends because I really think it's just such an intimate prospect.

30:47Yeah. That is truly like the biggest, I think, most important takeaway for me. um also like natural natural marble and natural stone don't be scared of it everyone is i like that you wrote that in there and i'm like it yeah it's gonna etch it's gonna stain but like you cannot fake it there are some really there are good quarts out there i use them all the time because so many people are scared i just think natural stone gets such a bad rap and And like, I've never regretted using it. And none of my clients have, I mean, okay, maybe there's a client or two who's like really particular. You have to know yourself and know like what's going to make you crazy.

31:30But I think that's also something that, I don't know. And also just like check everything. Read every document. Double check every contract. Double check every proposal. Don't assume that it's perfect. It's fine. There's no mistakes. Read it. Read it. I catch stuff all the time. and I've missed stuff. So, you know, don't trust that everybody's got your best interest at heart necessarily. And that's not to sound like negative. It's just like, make sure that you're doing your homework. Make sure you're reviewing everything and that it is exactly how you want it so that you don't get stuck with like, oh shoot, I didn't mean to pick polished nickel.

32:12I meant to pick brass or something on like a window latch. You know, like it is a lot of details And that's why having a designer and professionals to help you is really important. But also, even as a designer, we've also like for every single client have to make sure that we're going over all the nitty gritty. It's not the sexy part, but it's really essential to getting a good product. Yeah. I mean, you talked about your kitchen cabinets and oh, I just, oh, my stomach just turned for you. Yeah. Yeah. It was so really disappointing. You look ill just thinking about it. Well, it was, yeah. I mean, it was all, you know, it's not just, you know, cabinets coming in wrong.

32:53It's we had moved out and paid for a rental on top of our mortgage, on top of the construction for six months so that we didn't have to live without a kitchen. And then we had to move back in without a kitchen for two months with kids, which is a lot. You know, we made it work and it was fine. And it was a lesson for a lot of people, myself included. and ultimately like this is you know one of the things you work with good people and everybody figures out what their what their part was in it and it was you know also like don't rush if it's going to take longer it's going to take longer and you know like I should have insisted on certain things that I didn't because I was feeling like oh I should just you know I know everyone like if it's this is and it was a huge bummer for everyone it was really tough but now everything's got corrected my kitchen is gorgeous um it is stunning I love it it's really lovely everything is kind of I mean having cabinets up to 11 feet there's a lot of step stool happening I'd originally planned to do like a library ladder in there thank god I didn't because it would have always been in the way I probably would have ripped the thing off the wall by now if it had actually happened but okay that is my question with that yeah i'm always like where do you put it when you're trying to open that we did do one actually in the house the lincoln project that we ended up doing it i don't think it's in there we ended up adding it but um where you can have really thin ones that hang on the wall that you just and then the rail stays it's not rolling so it's like you take it off it's on hooks that hangs flush with the wall and It's like a thin, like a brass material.

34:38And then you bring it out and hook it onto the rail and use it to go up and down. But yes, unless your kitchen is literally like massive, you are going to run, stub your tail on that thing like all the time. I mean, I have one in my office and my office is gigantic. It's very large and there's enough space, but we still find ourselves like, get out of here, ladder. Like, it's just, yeah. So that is one thing that I last minute was like, yeah, I don't think this, I think I'm going to hate this visually I love it but I think functionally you know we have to think about function first and beauty second and functionally this is going to make me insane and probably cause like a broken foot so I eliminated yes we have to have a step stool that we pull out all the time to get up high so things that we don't use every day go up really really high and then Yeah.

35:30My husband is six foot four, so he can reach a lot of it. That's helpful. You're tall, too. I'm tall, but give me a boost. So we do have, like, someone needs to make a prettier step ladder. Perhaps it should be me. But, like, I don't know. But, like, one that has, like, four steps. Like, I need, like, a four. Not just, like, one of the little baby cute ones. I need, like, four steps. And none of them are, like. Actually, you know, Frontgate has a good one. Oh, really? Have you seen the Frontgate one? They are really good. and they come in different colors. I work with them all the time. It's so cute.

36:02Mine's like mint green. Like it is a cute color. I want one that looks like antique, but isn't antique. It's going to give me like tetanus, you know. No, this is not. It won't work. It won't be like every time you open it. Oh, it's sending it. Oh, they actually do have a brand. Oh, really? I like that you're shopping. I know. I like that we're actively shopping during the podcast. Well, you know, Kate, Kate, Bebe, and I are like besties. If I don't do it now, then I will forget and then I'll never send it to you. Yeah, that's hilarious. I'm doing my whole, my patio with Frank Kate right now. Oh, exciting.