Ep. 435: Home Again with James Farmer

25:31But so our clients, you know, when we found out that, you know, this isn't they're not just coming for a football game, you know, a few Saturdays each year. They truly wanted to have a home in Auburn where they could stay with their family, with the grandchildren. It is across the street from Toomer's Corner and the art school. So I was very familiar with it. But the only other thing that the client said I thought was so interesting is they said, all right, we don't we don't need to be orange and blue with a lot of tiger stripes because truly you're looking on two tumors corner. You know, it's like if you need Auburn, there's the sign.

26:08Truly, there's the sign right outside the window. So I got to thinking about it and I thought, well, a shell, this white box shell that's just sheetrock. The first thing that it's lacking is, you know, definition. and to me it was just asking for it so you know there's this big huge space that's supposed to be the kitchen the living room the dining room and i thought this is auburn like acre is one block away hamilton's is out the back door like big blue bagel for breakfast every morning like you're not like you're not going to sit down with 18 people and eat dinner in here you're going to walk outside the door and go go eat and so when we kind of started defining it we realized that we needed more so areas where you could sit to, you know, if you're not at the game, be able to watch the game.

26:57You need to be able to, you know, entertain like a big island, as opposed to a smaller island that a lot of condos have, and then a dining area. Like we figured out what our clients needed. But because it was a shell, we were able to build in things that oftentimes have to be front and center. So we were able to build in like, you know the wine refrigerator the ice maker the cabinets and things like that into um into kind of another another area so we we we were able to borrow because it was just space you know we were able to kind of create the best analogy that i'll use is it was more of like a loft than it was a condo because of like the volume of it and it was just one of my favorite projects to date and um And, you know, we added crown molding and, you know, the ceiling didn't have to be a drop ceiling.

27:50We were able to panel, you know, we were able to put pretty wallpaper, you know, engineered hardwood floor has come so far. You don't have to have the clinky clacky sound because, you know, there were some variants that we couldn't change, you know, like a poured slab was there. But guess what? Great tile in all the bathrooms. And we had so much fun with it. And when we revealed it to our clients, they're real avid supporters of Auburn Athletics, in particular, the basketball team. And so they brought some of the basketball players. Y 'all, I'm 6 '4", okay? Caroline, you know me. I'm tall. I was the shortest guy in the room.

28:29And they came in there. And some of these guys are plopping on these beds that we just had made and had the new duvets monogrammed. And they're like, oh, I like these beds. And they're like, oh, and they loved it. And so immediately I was like, OK, it's pretty. But the basketball team can hop down. It's obviously comfortable. It's comfortable. So that made that made me really, really happy right right there. So you just have to think about what your client needs. And sometimes thinking out of the box really means thinking inside the box in a different scope or scale. So. Well, it's a good thing you didn't drop that ceiling too low.

29:04Yeah. You got a lot of tall people in there. We did. But that drop ceiling, I really think is what helps make that space so fantastic, too. Thank you. Thank you. Because you put so much extra millwork up on the ceiling and really just made it feel like a really cozy space.

29:22Liz Toombs:It had all the feelings and nostalgia and warmth of an old home. So it was really, I mean, unless you truly had read the chapter, you would not have realized that it was a brand new condo building. Lots of good antiques, too. Some great pieces with patina. Yeah. And I'm glad you mentioned not using an auburn color palette. It didn't really even occur to me. Now, you did kind of do that a little tiny bit in your Oxford project. Oh, yeah, I did. It started as a game day house. So, yeah, there's a navy and red connotation there. I loved that house as well. Can you tell us a little bit about that one?

29:59Liz Toombs:There was especially the little bunk room with the red check. Yeah. Okay. So what's the old expression? you know, like, you know, tell God your plans and watch him laugh or something like that. So our clients, you know, they had a game day house in Oxford and, you know, adorable, great. Well, you know, they decided we're going to retire here. Well, all their grandkids moved to Oxford as well. So like they're building this bunk room like to house all the grandkids who now live on the same street. And so they were doing this because they were thinking, oh, you know, one day maybe they'll come visit for a football game.

30:35And now they, you know, spend every weekend with them. So what happened was, you know, Oxford is full of these beautiful kind of, whether it's craftsmen or kind of, you know, early bungalow kind of shotgun style cottages. And so there was a shotgun style cottage, you know, you open the front door, you see straight down out the back door. And it was, it was condemned like it really could not be rebuilt so we did redraw it and you know work with great local architect and local builder and we kind of drew it but then we were able to like do a bit a little bit better pitch on the roof so that way we could have this bunk room upstairs and then the other thing that was so neat about kind of a theme or color scheme I love one you You know, if a client's like, hey, my favorite color is whatever, or I've always wanted a yellow dining room, whatever it is, I'm like, I'm going to run with it.

31:34Because it's kind of fun because it's where do you start on a design project? You know, where do you actually say, OK, this wall is Benjamin Moore, X, Y, Z. It's sometimes hard to start. And so when you have that, when you have that spark, you know, that first little flame, like, OK, this is where we can go. So then from Ole Miss colors, I was able to think, well, Imari red could be kind of interpreted. And that Imari red and that sang debuff and that, you know, you can pull those there and, you know, hotty toddy blue could go, well, it goes several shades of blue. And so we ran with it from more of a French blue to the haint blue on the porch ceilings.

32:20and give yourself some, you know, inspiration and parameters and then go for it. So that was so much fun. Also, great, great clients and trusted us and had some beautiful art as well.

32:33Liz Toombs:Tell more about the jumping off point, because that's a great insight. And, you know, if you if you really have no if the clients have given you no parameters, and maybe this doesn't happen very often, I don't know. But if they haven't given you any direction in terms of a color palette, But what is your goal? Like, where do you start? Because that is, if you can go anywhere, that's hard because then, like, what is sort of keeping you on a path that's going to be consistent? You know? That's a great question. So, I don't know if I have one very acute answer, maybe a little more obtuse. So that said, if a client has called me and says, I need you to decorate my house.

33:22It's just the same thing as me calling my accountant saying, I need you to do my taxes. I can't do this. I was just on the phone with my plumber. He's installing a new ice maker. I can't do it. So they're calling because they're requesting a skill set. And what I have to do is kind of weed through. they'll tell us they're going to tell us what they want without telling us what they want and so to me that jumping off point is oh my gosh I saw this great you know something from Ballard or you know so and so has this fabulous new fabric or you may have something and it's twirling in your head or like okay I would always love to use that but honestly for me what it comes down to is this I love that each room has a name and we started talking about this Each room has a name, living room, dining room, kitchen, and it does have a form and a function.

34:16But kind of even going back to anyone can write a book. Well, anyone can decorate a kitchen. But how am I going to do this? So is our client left handed? You know, is she going to reach for, you know, is he six, eight or is, you know, does she need this much height? So we started getting into the weeds of very personal details very quickly. And then sometimes it's already answered for you. You know, he says, I love red. He actually may mean like, you know, cranberry or burgundy or, you know, or a different color ruby. Or she may say, you know, I'm really adverse to the color yellow, but every photo she shows us is a yellow room.

35:00So maybe she doesn't like gold, whatever it is. So one of my favorite design professors said that interior design is 90 % psychology. And it's 9 % logistics. The other percent is where the creativity comes into play. So it's not necessarily being creative like, oh, I'm going to put the kitchen on top of the roof and the treehouse is where you're going to slide down into your bathroom. No, I mean, we're humans. We're people. We have to live. We have to eat. We have to sleep. So you have to put all those things into the mill and they work themselves out. But a client will tell you a lot of things without telling you.

35:39And so that jumping off point for me usually is at that consultation. I see their artwork. I'm like, okay, okay. They collect Majolica. You know what? Oh, got it. They're a silver pattern. I know that sounds crazy, but I'm afraid it's the first girl is going to like this more than that or whatever it is. So there are some tells kind of at the poker table right offhand that I'm able to decipher. But it does go back to they can't do it on their own. And just like I can't do my taxes or plumbing, so you have to ask someone to help you. And that's okay. That's why we all have jobs.

36:17Liz Toombs:Okay, so say you've got a big house, like the one that you did in, what was it? Was it Columbus that was like a new build out on some land? Anyway, it doesn't matter. So you've got a big house, and you've done the living room, and you picked a color palette, and you did the dining room, and you've kind of got all the big rooms. But then you've got some of these sort of secondary spaces, laundry room, mud room, guest bedroom. Are you going in the same direction that you already went? Or are you like, OK, we we checked the blue. We checked the green. Like, what's what we haven't used? Like, what what would you what direction would you go there?

36:55OK, so did y 'all ever like growing up, you had your favorite toy book, whatever, and you always played, always read, always had those. and then like you'd be cleaning up the playroom or doing your chores and you realize, I love this ball, this block, oh, this puzzle. And you kind of rediscover something that may be a part of you, but you're out of sight, out of mind or whatever. Maybe your sister took it to their room or the dog took the ball out of the backyard, but you rediscover it. So once I get those big spaces done, that's kind of where to me, the discovery of creativity really comes into play.

37:35So it's like, for example, you know, Citrus Garden by Schumacher. It's been around a long time. It's lovely. It's fabulous. If I put that in a huge living room, I mean, that's a lot of oranges and lemons and everything. I mean, it's a lot. However, in a laundry room where it's contained and I can pull that blue out, that's like not cobalt, but not aqua. I mean, it's like, oh, that's cool. So then those spaces are where, to me, the creativity really gets to have its moment. Because in the big rooms and those primary spaces, you really want a touch of neutrality so that every season can shine, a Christmas tree, blue hydrangeas for a summer cocktail party, whatever it is.

38:20You want to have seasonal shine, but those spaces are really fun. So to me, that's where I get to really scratch that creative itch. You know, it's not just, you know, an ecru velvet sofa, sage green trim. It's pretty, and I love it all the time. But sometimes you just, you know, need that little fun kind of moment. And those spaces like laundry rooms, powder rooms, butler's pantries, you know, bunk rooms, like, that allows you to do that.

38:48Liz Toombs:So you're taking that as an opportunity to do something totally new that you haven't done elsewhere in the house. Yes. And it's also closed off usually. And so I know that sounds strange. So like if you are all into tortoiseshell and you want a tortoiseshell powder room, ceiling, walls, you know, this incredible jewel tone rug on the floor. And let's say the next day you're not as into it. Just shut the door. You know, it's like to me, your primary space is those living spaces, let those have personality, let those have doses of it. But it's those jewel boxes that can be opened and closed and enjoyed for their form and function.

39:29And it just is so fun. And what's coming to mind also down on the Georgia coast on Sea Island for a client's powder room is a small room. And we jokingly called it the Delta lavatory because it was like, it was so tight. I mean, the commode width is about the width of it. But we did this huge pattern paper. And it's so funny how you'll read about it in the magazines and it's in every design, but use a large scale paper in a small room to appear larger. It did. It did. And so sometimes, you know, that scale of a pattern is one of my favorites. It's Burden Thistle by Brunswick, and I love it in every colorway.

40:15But in a tight space, what it did was I see the whole vine. I'm like, oh, there's the bird. There's the thistle. Like it's really cool how it works. In a big room, it gets lost. It kind of becomes like this really big something. So I always love when kind of Design 101 really works. At ZocDoc, we know being a healthy adult is like living in a video game. Every day has side quests, taxes, laundry, birthdays. And just when you're leveling up, you have to book a doctor. The insurance portal crashes. They put you on hold. Your doctor doesn't take your plan. Game over. We see you. So we made booking a doctor easy.

40:56Download SockDoc. Search by specialty, insurance, and availability. Book instantly. No cheap codes required. Find a doctor you love with SockDoc. You know, one of the things that you mentioned a couple times in the book is that you like to create rooms for the seasons. And you mentioned seasons just a little bit ago. Can you explain to us what you mean by creating a room for the seasons? Yeah. Okay, a room for the seasons. Liz, I love this question because I'm such a seasonal person. My mother always joked about like, she's like, oh, I'm a fall. And I'm like, what does she mean by she's a fall?

41:30And she's talking about her color palette, you know, like what looked good on her with makeup and clothes. But I get it. So think about this. a room, if we have the luxury of having ample quantities of rooms, so let's say that you have a room that faces south, that's wonderful for that light coming in and it may be a great room for Ballard et a Gers to grow your little begonias in the wintertime, but that said, when you have a little bit of ample space, let's say it's a fireplace, I don't sit by my fireplace in Reed in July. You know, wherever the air condition is full blast, that's where I'm going to be.

42:13But as soon as that, you know, first nip gets us in the mountains, I am right there by the fire. I cannot wait. So seasonally, you know, we react, you know, we crave a fire or maybe it's warm stew or whatever it is. So a room for the seasons needs to be able to react to that. some people completely rearrange their lives for Christmas time and their rooms. And it's because you're bringing a tree into your house. You know, it's like you're bringing this big thing. Or maybe it's a party and you're like, OK, I have to move all the furniture out. But then you have to rent chairs. That's a father of the bride quip right there.

42:52That's one of my favorite movies. But think about that house. Like George Banks says this house is warm in the winter. It's cool in the summer and looks fantastic with Christmas lights. And I'm like, that's a house, that's a room for the seasons. You can sit by the fire in the wintertime or you can be removed from it and, you know, be scrolling on Instagram in the AC. But what really makes that happen to me is to me, your coffee table is the epicenter of that. and I think a coffee table and Caroline and I have talked about this before like a coffee table needs fruit, flowers and fire and so have a bowl of fruit it may be peaches it may be green apples it may be lemons I know it sounds weird to have a bowl of fruit in your living room but it tells you like what season it is and it's pretty you know and then or your flowers you know your foliage you know it's blue hydrangeas you know it's June or July you know it's like in the mountains I love right now the hydrangeas are kind of this raspberry kind of coral color.

43:49And, you know, that shows, hey, y 'all, it's this time of year. It's this late September. So all that said is, you know, then the fire is like a great candle or maybe even a diffuser, but it kind of engages those senses. So a room for the seasons is not a sterile, you know, grayish, beige, linen homage to nothingness. It's a room that can easily say, oh, it's fall. Oh, it's winter. And it can, it may be the throw that you put over a chair that you only have out there for a few months. Or maybe it's summertime and you edit it real clean and you just have a couple stacks of white leather bound antique books and a seashell on top.

44:31There's so many things you can do that just eschew or welcome in the seasons. And I think coffee tables are the best way to do that.

44:39Liz Toombs:Do you ever, I guess, take into account the season when you're building out the color palette of the room? Oh, yeah. You do? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. The first thing we do, I mean, is what way is it facing? I mean, interior design is, like I said, 90 % psychology, 9 % logistics and the creativity is like this much. The work's been done for us. I mean, you can open up any old school design book. Well, if your room faces north, it needs to be these colors. If your bedroom faces, y 'all, it's because it's tried and true. It's science, it's art, it's mathematics altogether. together so you could take the vast world of choices of interior design and kind of condense it to well the master bedroom the primary bedroom or the dining room whatever it is faces this direction well these colors look good in these lights um that so paint color is a great example on this we were working on a project in the midwest and we used a ferro and ball color and it's, you know, kind of a Tony paint brand.

45:42And our client was really, she really wanted this paint color and then she loved it so much, she wanted to use it at her home on the coast. It wasn't the same. And so to me, that is really important to understand is that sometimes, you know, depending on where it is, what direction makes all the difference in the world. And so that's what we really put into play. We always ask our architects to make sure that they have a compass or the landscape architects really do that. But we always take a compass out there and know, OK, the living room faces here. And another thing, now that I'm on this soapbox, you didn't know you'd open this can of worms.

46:24I'm loving it. Another thing that a lot of people do is with dining rooms and living rooms, they primarily use dining rooms for dinner parties at night. Or let's say it's like Christmas dinner or Thanksgiving dinner. darker, moodier and sometimes the dining room gets like the best view and I'm like let's put the dining room like over here and have the make that the breakfast room you know so I love when we can kind of get on board like with the architect right off hand and be able to offer something like that like for example in the mountains I have some friends their dining room is not that big and they said well we don't need a big dining room because we go out to eat But what had been the dining room originally at this house, they made into a porch.

47:13Because if you're in the mountains, you want to be on the porch. And I loved how we were able to kind of reconfigure that and just fill it out. Who gets top billing and why? And to me, it's direction, season, and it all kind of starts funneling into place.

47:30Liz Toombs:And are you thinking when you're setting up the living or laying out the living room, like, this is where the Christmas tree is going to go? Yeah. Yeah. And do you tell your clients, like, this is what I would do? Or do they know? Yes and no. Some people, I'm not kidding. We have had more clients who would say, okay, where do I put my Christmas tree? Like, first question. Like, I don't even know your name yet. And we're talking about a Christmas tree. This is confidential, y 'all. But I guess we'll share it with everyone. Like, I like Christmas trees. trees like i don't love that like a tree dictates how a room is designed for 11 and a half months out of the year so there's this part of me that's like yeah i love christmas tree but it doesn't have to say like okay the house has to be framed plumbed wired like for this you know it can be a shorter tree it could be on a table it could be you know kind of over there like over there like you know And so it's so interesting to me that that's often one of the very first questions that a client will ask me, where's my tree going to go?

48:41And I'm like, honey, you have a grand piano. Let's talk about that. You know, like you have a dining room set for 18 people. Like we might need that. The tree is there for two, three weeks. Like, you know, so we one of my favorite clients, she I mean, she's a Christmas tree in every room kind of girl. And awesome. Love it. Do it. you celebrate it and she would say well you know where's my christmas tree gonna go in the you know whatever room it was and i just said well i guess we'll have to you know you'll have to store that sofa that's in front of the window because that's the best place because i knew she wanted it to be seen from outside you know so yeah it to each to each their own but that's my little christmas tree soapbox like i'm shocked actually that you're not a christmas tree

49:32Liz Toombs:you got? I love a wreath. Give me some garland. Let's womp de womp de womp. The mantle. Oh, I love a mantle all done up. Let's set the table. You know, let's have some lights outside of the tree itself. Like I do a tabletop tree. Presents go around. Actually now presents. I just give everyone a, you know, a book and a card with money. Venmo Christmas. I'm not a Scrooge, but I'm like

50:01Liz Toombs:borderline borderline this is the man who just told us we had to decorate our coffee table for every season for every season and you can and your coffee table can be decorated for christmas without you know a 12 foot spruce you know in your and yes and don't forget you said we're going to decorate something for christmas too for ballard so we got to figure that out and i'll Well, I'm not now. I know. I'm out of it. We will. No, no, we will. We will. But like, for example, I have this, I love wreaths. Like I love a wreath. And you have a great wreath and a ribbon on the door. Like to me, that says a lot.

50:37So I'm probably going to get a lot of flack now, but I think there's other ways. It sounds like you've got sentimentality for all 12 months. So maybe by Christmas time, it's a little spent. Yes, yes, yes. Yes. And honestly, here's what it comes down to for me. So we don't do like Christmas decor anymore. That used to be a part of our business. And I think once you have been in the business of selling ribbon by the yard and branches, it can take the jolly out of the holly. So I think that's kind of where I stand. And what I love to do for the holidays and for Christmas in particular is I love to have a party.

51:19It gives me the excuse, great food. I get to have the music. I get to have the friends over. I get to wear, you know, a new sweater or whatever it is. And that to me is my kind of celebration. And then all my nieces and nephews are young and they get to have, you know, Santa and the trees and all the blow up stuff at their mom and daddy's houses. And I love it. And you can go visit. And I can go visit. but yeah silver julep cups with red roses and red berries on a mantle and a wreath and every crape myrtle lined with you know white lights bring it on let's let's do it i do think

51:57Liz Toombs:you're right though not like you can find a place to work the tree in yeah you're gonna find a spot for it yeah don't don't sacrifice comfort and functionality the other 11 and a half months out of the year, like you mentioned, just to leave empty space in the tree. I'm not kidding. Like, this family has a baby grand. Like, it's been in the family for three generations. And, like, that was in storage. The Christmas tree was the first question. I'm like, oh, okay.

52:31Liz Toombs:Other fabulous spaces in the book. I mean, there's so many. Obviously, we got to see your Cashers little cottage, which we also did a house tour of. So I don't know if it's up yet, but oh gosh, it was fabulous. You're so sweet. You'll get to see more of that, all of our listeners, when that goes up on our YouTube channel. But I also loved the, wait, was it Martha's Vineyard? No. Martha's Vineyard. Yeah. Yeah, tell us about that space because that was also really fun. if my imagination came to life and it was a village, a place, it'd be Edgartown, Massachusetts between like August 15th and November 1st.

53:16I mean, y 'all want to talk about, I love Gilmore Girls. I rewatch it every fall. Well, I mean, I watch it kind of year round, but you know, it's like Stars Hollow meets Grey Gardens. I mean, I know it sounds so wild, but it's everything. And some clients of ours, we've helped them with things in the past, and they're also very dear friends. And that I love, because I'm like, yeah, he likes this, she's going to want that, and that kind of is helpful. But she gave us a really neat kind of set of guidelines. And so Martha's Vineyard, in particular, the little kind of Egertown village, when I say it is cute, y 'all, I mean it like hurts your eyes.

53:57It's so adorable. It is just, I mean, Nothing is wilted. Now, wait until you have to go in January and February for a site visit, and you're freezing on the ferry. That's a whole different ballgame. But I know why people want to be there for that. It is as Americana nostalgia as just about any place I have ever been. And our client said, okay, how do we do red, white, and blue without doing red, white, and blue? And she just kind of said it off the cuff. And I'm like, red is coral, coral. White is more of a cream, more of like linen white. And the blue, it's more of like a cerulean kind of turquoise-y, you know.

54:40And so then that allowed like, well, with that kind of lighter kind of shade of blue, then that kind of caramel taupe-y check could kind of play in. And instead of red, it's more of that coral Nantucket red faded from the summertime, you know. And then the white, you know, I always have to quote, we have a painter who always says, is this going to be white or white, white? And that's a huge, huge difference. And I love like a creamier, more of a warm white. And that is so indicative there. The white picket fences and the white houses, all the clabbered, you know, so you don't see a lot of stone.

55:19you don't see a lot of brick. You see shakes, you see wood, you know, you see lots and lots of hydrangeas and those hydrangeas are that blue. They're not like Navy. They're more that hydrangea cerulean blue. And, um, that was that kind of inspiration right there and it's tight quarters. And so we kind of treated it like a ship, like everything's kind of built in. Um, it's, you know, it's it's it's it's tidy and fun but oh it's one of my favorite projects i love that you called it a ship because you even have a sea captain in there oh yeah oh and and you know he was at from a junk shop of like you know like that's where you find those treasures you know well it was i

56:01Liz Toombs:just loved seeing that um you know of course you do coral in so many projects because it's one of your favorites but i love seeing all the different ways that you can use it because it's really not a color that I think many people play with. Certainly not as much as you do. Well, I think it's neutral. I know that sounds weird. I mean, I'm wearing a peachy color right now, but coral can be like peach, salmon, even into the more pinky, into raspberry. I mean, coral is a great guy. You can use coral just about anywhere. But my mother was very confident. And then my grandmother also, So she always said the best dish that a host or hostess can serve is confidence.

56:41You know, so don't be, don't apologize. I don't have enough Chantilly to set 12 places. Mix it. It's fine. Just serve confidently, love graciously, you know, and that's, that's what people love and remember. And so mama would use coral and she never would say, I'm sorry that our room is this peach color. You know how good it looks with blue and white cash pose on the mantel? You know, what do you do at Christmas? Carl and red, they look great together. I love red Alex Berries and coral roses and, you know, greenery. It's beautiful. So I think that's just a part of it. If you don't like it, great.

57:15You don't have to use it. But I do think there is some bending of the rules. I don't like to break them, but I do like to kind of bend them. So red, white, and blue, you know, coral cream and turquoise.

57:26Liz Toombs:So pretty. We do have a decorating dilemma. Oh, okay. If you want to get to it. I mean, we could sit here and chat all day. But we do have a question for Kayla that we want to get to. Okay. Y 'all are all ears. So I'm going to read it and then we'll take a stab at it. She doesn't have any questions. I mean, she doesn't have any images. Okay. So it's just a question. She says, hey, ladies, quick question for y 'all. What is the best way to choose paint colors for a new build? I can't test colors in the rooms because the rooms don't exist yet. Should I just narrow down to a few options for each room and then pick one once I can test it in the space?

58:02Liz Toombs:We're trying to make as many decisions and purchases ahead of time as possible. Thanks, as always. I love the podcast. It's a very good question, Kayla. Yes, and I bet you do this a lot. So first thing we do is we tell our client, so if Kayla's my client, I would say, Kayla, you need a finished schedule. And a finished schedule, you can be an Excel spreadsheet. It can be a legal pad, however you want to organize it. But a finished schedule is going to tell you, your builder, your contractor, the craftsman, any of the people so much. So, for example, new build. You're probably going to have sheetrock.

58:43And sheetrock comes in white, white. I mean, that's just the color it comes in. So right off the bat, you know that you're going to have a very kind of bright, kind of sterile space. So kind of work from there. You can get paint samples now, peel and stick or, you know, that are foot by foot or can order. All the paint companies have them. Create that finished schedule. So when you know your material, so if your hardwood floor is pine versus oak, pine is more honey and yellow. oak is more brown, you know, to, you know, darker, warmer brown, or if it's white oak versus heart pine, you know, know your materials, line them up and know like what planes are meeting what.

59:30So if you have, you know, red oak floors, which are more of a red brown, and then as soon as those sheetrock walls go up and they are white, white, you know that you've got a contrast right there. So maybe that's when you try those paint samples from the two or three you've picked ahead of time. you don't have to commit right now to paint but what you do have to commit to um the guts of it plumbing you've got to pick out your faucets your lighting you know the the contractor's going to need to know well is there wood on the wall because then he has to frame it differently you know is it doesn't matter what you know like what color it's going to be painted this room is going to be wallpaper so all those finishes need to be decided really ahead of time and kayla just like any of our clients, we tell them, the first thing we're going to show you is a finished schedule presentation.

1:00:18And we're going to show you what you're walking on, what you're looking at on the wall. We'll even show you some inspiration fabrics. Those are very helpful as well. But one of the first things we're going to show you is your plumbing and your lighting, and then you won't see them again until you move in. So you have to pick those things out first. Paint, give yourself some grace. It's okay. You can pick one or two colors now and then try some samples once that white white sheet rock is up and then you'll be able to you know kind of go from there but knowing you know is it tile is it wood is it a brick floor or is it you know terrazzo i mean there's so many things it could be so um i think you've got the first place thing to start with is a finished schedule and that's probably some of the best money you can spend

1:01:00Liz Toombs:with a designer as well that makes so much sense so smart so she's picking all the materials first Yep. You want her to have like a general direction in terms of maybe where she's going, pick a couple color options. You know what? She could even order some of those sampleized stick-on sheets early. And then she's already got them at her house. Live with them. When the sheetrock goes up, go over, like stick them up there. Yeah. So then she has some options, but she hasn't officially picked her until she's in the room. That makes sense. I actually think Kayla's ahead of the game because she's already thinking about the finished product.

1:01:39And that's what I do on a design project is I see the finished product and then I have to kind of peel it layer by layer by layer to get down to the studs or crawl space or whatever it is.

1:01:50Liz Toombs:It seems like a lot of times people want to have a wall, like that's where they're starting is the wall color. But to your point, you can kind of go anywhere with the wall color. You can make your own custom color, but you only have so many options in terms of your wood. Yes, exactly. flooring or the wallpaper you're going to use. Like we were saying earlier, sometimes decisions are made for you and that's great. Then you can have fun with other stuff. Well, James, what a treat, as usual. Wait, our time's up? I thought we were doing this all day. I mean, we could, but you're busy. You've got other books, new books to write.

1:02:23Liz Toombs:Are you already working on your next one? I could be. I don't know. I would like, I want to. We need to see if my publisher's game for it. Hey, y 'all. I would like to. I love it. I love writing books. I'm working on a real book, I call it, kind of like a memoir, like Southern stories of growing up in a small town. That's what I would love to be able to work on as well. But another kind of design coffee table book, all for it, We Shall See. The one that just came out is Home Again, A Return to Gracious Interiors by Mr. James Farmer, the third. That's right. One, two, three. tell everybody where else they can find you yeah follow you all that good stuff yeah on instagram at james t farmer and james farmer inc and i have a shop now a little store called a place to call home so you can see all of those yep on instagram and james farmer.com are you going to have any events this um fall yes um coming up very soon the first weekend of october we're doing a big kind of launch event at Farmdale Home and Garden Tour.

1:03:30And then we'll have kind of a Christmas, kind of a holiday open house at the shop. And we'll be at Mistletoe Market in Perry, Georgia as well. And then follow along, you know, from Charleston to other places around. I'll be, whether speaking or signing books at great shops and places around. So follow us on social media and you can see where we're heading.

1:03:53Liz Toombs:Perfect. Well, such a treat. Thank you again. Oh, absolutely. It's a fabulous book. You're so sweet, Joanne. Thank you. Liz, thank you. That's our show. And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog, howtodecorate.com slash podcast. To send in a decorating dilemma, email your questions to podcast at BallardDesigns.net so we can help you with your space. And of course, be sure to follow us on social media at Ballard Designs. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback. Until next time.

1:04:26Happy day. bu ne hyering