Ep. 436: Color Pattern Texture with Vern Yip

17:40Vern Yip:Yeah.

17:40Beth McDonough:You know, I always say to people, like, you know, get samples before you commit to anything because, you know, you don't want to make those costly mistakes. It's not like ordering a pair of pants online and hoping that it goes well with the top. And then, you know, if it doesn't, oh, well, you know, just put it back in the box. You order a sofa and a rug and they don't work together. it's kind of a pain and it's there, right? Or sometimes it's even more permanent. Like you order a tile and you put it up and you're like, oh, that's disappointing. Well, you're not just going to like take that tile off the wall and ship it back to the store, right?

18:17Beth McDonough:I mean, so when you're talking about high cost items, when you're talking about your home, when you're talking about really like difficult to ship items, you want to make sure that you're making the right decision.

18:31Kaitlin O'Connor:And I think that's why the samples are, like you said, so helpful and available is because companies know we want you to know what the fabric looks like before you buy yardage that you can't return. Yeah. It's like very important to see it.

18:41Beth McDonough:Yeah. I mean, your stores are great, but not every person lives, you know, within distance of a Ballard design store. So, you know, the ability to order samples is a huge help. Yeah.

18:54Vern Yip:And we all do it. I mean. And, oh, I buy yards of fabric because we sell it by the yard. So I'll get a yard full of fabric and drape it over my existing sofa and be like, okay, that's going to work.

19:07Beth McDonough:And one of the things that, you know, I was realizing when I was putting together this book, you know, when it comes to talking about color, pattern and texture, you know, anybody who works in the design industry or design adjacent industry or the home decor industry, Anybody who works in a related field has like this common language that, you know, we all kind of understand. But if you don't work in that field, I think it can be really daunting. And so after the color chapter, there's what I call a color dictionary. After the pattern chapter, there's a pattern dictionary. And after the texture section, there's a texture dictionary.

19:50Beth McDonough:and they aren't just words. There's actually physical pictures of what we're talking about. So for example, after the color chapter in the color dictionary, we have a bunch of colors that, terms that we use all the time, like chartreuse or fuchsia or straw. And I think for people who aren't as used to working with those kinds of elements, they can be like, I'm not exactly sure what chartreuse or fuchsia or straw really refer to yeah uh or camel even you know like and i think a lot of people can say well it's up for interpretation and so um i asked sue wadden who's director of color marketing at sherman williams she has one of the um and it's been scientifically measured one of the most precise eyes in the world for determining exact shades of colors.

20:48Beth McDonough:She's literally, she's 0.0001%, which is why she has the job that she has. And I said, okay, I'm not going to pick those colors. I'm going to ask Sue to pick the exact pink chip that would be labeled for each one of these colors. And even I was a little bit surprised. You know, I was like, okay, I didn't exactly know that that's what, you know, chartreuse is. Like, I thought it was a little greener, but you might think it's a little more yellow. So it was really good to get a super professional like that to give us those paint chips. And so, you know, in the back of the book, you have the exact Sherwin-Williams paint chip number, but then you also have equivalents across the other major brands.

21:37Beth McDonough:So there's a Benjamin Moore equivalent. There's a Bear equivalent. There's a, you know, so it's there for you as well. After the pattern chapter, for example, we always say, you know, damask. And we all know what we mean when we say damask, but not everybody knows what damask is. And so there's a little picture of damask. And then after the texture chapter, the texture dictionary, there's, you know, and getting the pictures of the textures was really hard, right? Like when somebody says hammered, what do they mean by hammered texture versus a brushed texture? You know what I mean? So having that back there was, you know, it was hard.

22:22Beth McDonough:I think we got it done. But, you know, so the book is really designed to be useful and to be helpful and to really help people own those elements so that they can design their homes in a way that best reflects them.

22:36Vern Yip:Yeah, this is such a helpful guide. And you go into such detail in every category. I mean, you even give a page that's just dedicated to finding the perfect white paint. And you not only give the paint color, but you give a really beautiful, subtle description of each one. And there are 12 different whites to choose from, just from their descriptions, which I think is just, I know that's one of the questions that we get all the time. Like, you know, what color is that or what white should I use? And it's just so great to have that resource.

23:16Beth McDonough:Thank you. I like specific information. You know, as we were saying in the beginning, I don't like to just put out stuff to put out stuff. So if I'm going to put out a book, I want that book to actually be not only beautiful to look at, and there are lots of beautiful pictures in there. You just want to like run through them for inspiration. But I also want them to have a ton of useful information. I want that information to be, you know, presented in a really accessible way, but I also want it to be very specific. And, you know, these, just to be clear, these are my best whites. These are my best white selections.

23:49Beth McDonough:They, you know, may not be everybody's, but, you know, after being in the business for three plus decades, you know, my experience has shown that these are, these ones really work. um so i wanted to i wanted to share those with with folks and then you know i really thought about like how the book is laid out and how to lay it out in a way that would be useful and interesting and we went through this process during this podcast where we were talking about you know starting with something inspirational or something multi-pattern or whatever and then building from there. And so there's a chapter in the book where, you know, we show you visually block by block how that happened.

24:36Beth McDonough:Like we started with this painting, then we found this table that like pulled those colors together. Then we found this fabric that, you know, pulled from the painting in this table. And then, you know, gradually you kind of just see how we end up with paint and we end up with solid colored things. But it shows you like visually block by block, not just with words, how that room came together.

25:00Vern Yip:Yeah, it really demystifies the process.

25:03Beth McDonough:I mean, I think that's always the goal. I mean, our lives are so complex already. You were kind of talking about that earlier, you know, raising kids, you know, trying to just juggle all the stuff that we have to do as humans, just even sometimes getting food on the table can be difficult. And so, you know, I want to make life easier and better and richer through design, because that's what I do. I suck at everything else. This is the one thing I don't suck at. This is how I can help people.

25:38Kaitlin O'Connor:Well, it is. It's so empowering. I think that's the, you have made it, it's such a daunting task to pick a paint color. And I think a lot of people do feel very intimidated. And your book makes it very much like, don't be intimidated. This is the Lilac family. If that's what you are gravitating to, look for something with more gray or do you want more of a pink? I think it's wonderful that you've given this. And it's like all your books, you have so many point by point. And I like at the end how you recap the chapter.

26:07Vern Yip:It's so helpful. And you have like even little numbers where it's like, you need to go back and reference. Yes. It was on this page. so it's it's nice that you know you can read the book cover to cover but you can also use it as a

26:20Beth McDonough:reference book which is helpful and at the very end of the book um is what i call cheat sheets and it's like all the most critical things from the book just boil down like you know color tech color pattern texture for dummies just like if you just want you know all of those things right in front of you. They're there. So, you know, for me, that's what it's about as a parent to two, you know, teenagers and to six dogs. I need my life to be straightforward. Like if, you know, if I don't know something, I need somebody to just look me in the face and say, this is how you do it. So that's what this book really tries to do.

27:03Kaitlin O'Connor:And speaking of kids, you did have a little section even on how to help kids pick colors. Can you talk about that a little bit?

27:10Beth McDonough:Yeah. You know, I mean, this is through a lot of real life experience. I absolutely believe that kids should have a voice in their room, but it doesn't mean a free for all. I mean, they don't have the experience that, you know, we have, and I'm not even talking about we as people who work in home decor or design. I'm just talking about as adults who have more life experience and who have made mistakes already with paint and whatever. But I think it's really important to allow your children to have a voice and to maybe begin to steer them into a room that's going to have more longevity. So for example, our daughter's 14, our son is 15.

27:56Beth McDonough:They still have the same paint scheme, the same drapery, all the same basic elements, the same lighting that was in their nurseries.

28:06Vern Yip:And they've grown with them.

28:10Beth McDonough:And that's not to say that over time, you know, they haven't changed their minds about some things, right? But the room has a great foundation that allows them to grow with it. And as they grow and they, you know, like new things, They can easily add them into the space. But I do think it's important to be a partner with your kids in helping them to achieve not just your vision of the room, but also their vision. A lot of kids want a giant Winnie the Pooh sticker on the wall or whatever. And I think it's about, hey, wouldn't it be great if we pulled variations of the color from Winnie that you can live with longer and put them in the room and then maybe we'll get you a Winnie the Pooh stuffed animal.

29:01You know, there's a way to have their voices be heard and at the

29:07Beth McDonough:same time give them a room that's going to endure.

29:09Vern Yip:Yeah.

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29:40Vern Yip:I was going to say, what if your kid's vision is like Pokemon or, you know, yeah, but that Winnie the Pooh example is perfect. Like it's, you can pick some things that may be what they're looking for and have them be more um you know objects or something that are not permanent staples but also shades like you know um you know pikachu for

30:05Beth McDonough:example um you know yellow but like pick a yellow that still you know alludes to pikachu but pick it in a shade that's doable over an entire room. And I had this actual thing happen with my niece where she picked the brightest, most neon highlighter yellow color ever for her walls to the point where I was like, if you close your eyelids, you can still see the color. It's like, you know, you don't want to live like this. You're going to have to go to sleep with sunglasses on. But like toning it down several shades still gives the impact that she was looking for, but now it's more livable.

30:51Vern Yip:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I just can't believe that your kids' rooms are virtually the same. Like that really speaks to your ability to pick something with longevity and that really works because it's hard. I don't know. kids needs change just so much. Yeah. But I think if, and, and people change a lot,

31:15Beth McDonough:you know, we all change. And that's the thing is we want our rooms to grow with us. And in order for that to happen, for you not to like design a room, execute it, which all of that can be very expensive. And then five years later, look at the room and think, wow, I'm really tired of that. I'm over that phase of my life. You know, that happens because we aren't honest with ourselves. And that's something I really encourage in the book. And it's natural. All of us, to a certain extent, start disliking things or liking things because we know that's what's acceptable. Instead of just really kind of listening to our internal voices and being like, okay, if nobody was looking, this is what I would do.

32:05Beth McDonough:And I think it's important. It's important to really get back to that. Because when you're honest with yourself and you have to remember, you're not designing a hotel that has to appeal to thousands of guests every year or a restaurant or any kind of public space. You're designing the most important space to you. It's the most intimate space. It's the space that should be designed to restore you and rejuvenate you. And in order for it to do that, it needs to really be tailored to what makes you unique and special and what really delights you. So, you know, peeling back the layers and having those like open conversations, open, honest conversations with yourself and whoever else you're going to be sharing that room with, I think is important.

32:54Vern Yip:Yeah, that really spoke to me. That's one of the things I pulled out is to really just be honest about what it is that you want. And it was a really kind of beautiful passage that made me feel like it gave permission to love what I love and to bring it into my home. And then you also mentioned to take a look at your life goals. And that's something that you did around your beach house, where before you even had a beach house, you started collecting.

33:27Beth McDonough:I did. And, you know, and the thing is, like, I wasn't just collecting, like, salad plates and napkins or whatever. I bought a dining room table for a non-existent beach house. I mean, I bought major pieces of furniture for a non-existent beach house. But, you know, I'm not saying that that's the extent that people should go. But what what the point is that your home should, yes, reflect your history and where you've been and your life experiences. it should be tailored to you in that way but it should also be tailored to you for your goals and your aspirations um you know who you want to become like really want to become not who you think people who you think people think you should become um so you know that is the other way to

34:22Vern Yip:really kind of think about spaces, you know, use them to help you get there from point A to B,

34:30Beth McDonough:to help you reach your goals.

34:31Vern Yip:Yeah. To hold your dreams and your manifestations. That's great.

34:35Beth McDonough:Absolutely. Yeah. Okay.

34:38Kaitlin O'Connor:You have a section literally about pattern, of course, but you have one that's like a question like, what if you just don't like pattern? Can you talk about that? Like for those who really don't want a pattern?

34:49Beth McDonough:Well, yes. So, you know, we first have to like come to an understanding of what pattern means. Are, you know, blades of grass repeating on a lawn? Is that a pattern? You know, leaves repeating on a branch? Is that a pattern? Like, so even the shadows that are created from your windowsill, like on your floor, Or is that a pattern? Or even how the windows are lined up in a room, they create a pattern. So, but I think in that particular section, we're talking about people who are really averse to patterns that are obviously complicated patterns, maybe patterns that, you know, you find in rugs and on fabrics and on wall coverings and things like that.

35:37Beth McDonough:And when you, when you are that kind of person, I think that's great. First off, that you can be honest with yourself that that's what it is. But things like color and texture then really become even more important. And pattern can be in your room very subtly, but texture specifically becomes a really important element in a space. People who like neutral schemes, for example. Neutral schemes really require an understanding of texture and mixing those textures. because textures that come from opposite ends of the spectrum usually are really good for each other. So things that are rough, for example, look beautiful against things that are smooth.

36:27Beth McDonough:Things that are shiny look great against things that are dull and matte. If everything in a room is shiny or everything in a room is rough, Like there's no there's no ability to really appreciate its uniqueness and what makes it special. And I think that that's a really important point. But, you know, if you're in a really neutral situation, for example, you're going to want to have, again, different scales of texture. You don't want finer textures next to textures that are a little nubbier and next textures that, you know, maybe even are coarse looking. So it's really important to kind of amp up the texture component if you're going to push down the pattern component.

37:12Vern Yip:I loved it when you were talking about why patterns are so great. You kind of had a little list, you know, hiding stains and all that. So what do you what can you tell our audience about why? What does the pattern do for your room? You know, like what is the real reason to incorporate them other than like the personality thing? Like is it, it's moving your eye around or?

37:39Beth McDonough:yeah so um as we were talking about before we are surrounded every day by patterns whether we realize it or not but i i do think that patterns have that ability to because they are more specific than just a color patterns have that ability to really make a space reflective of who we are uniquely. It's much easier to get people to agree on a color or texture. It's much harder to get them to agree on a pattern because you're bringing together so many different elements. And when you bring those elements together, it's going to be hard for everybody to land on the same page. But when you do, it's incredibly rewarding.

38:23Beth McDonough:And I think that that's what patterns really do for a space. They help you very specifically target and hone who you are and what you love and how you want that to be telegraphed. But there are so many other practical reasons as well. Like you were mentioning, patterns are great for hiding stains. And they're great for adding, I think, an element of focus and art in a space that maybe a room doesn't have a great view. A pattern is great for that. Or, you know, you don't have the budget for, you know, high level artwork or artwork that you want to live with long term. You know, having a great wallpaper up is, you know, can often supplant that.

39:12Vern Yip:Yeah. And you talk about a power piece. Can you tell our audience about the power piece and some examples of what that is and why we need it? Yeah. I think it's really

39:25Beth McDonough:great to first off have something that makes a statement about who you are, something that maybe can serve as a great jumping off point. It serves as a focal point to really kind of draw your eye into something because not everything in a room can be the focus. And we've talked about this before, you know, every room needs a primary focus, a secondary focus, a tertiary focus, because if everything in a room is a look at me moment, nothing is a look at me moment. And similarly, if nothing in a room is a look at me moment, then that room really lacks direction. It lacks specificity, you know, in terms of like who you are.

40:18Beth McDonough:So a power piece, It can be a myriad of things. It can be a statement light fixture. It can be a statement wallpaper or a statement rug. I mean, it can be a myriad of things, but letting that piece kind of help you direct that room and its design, I think, is a great way to kind of leap into something.

40:42Vern Yip:Do you like to have the power piece right at the beginning of the process? Or do you like to know what the power piece is before you really start?

40:51Beth McDonough:I think it's helpful.

40:52Vern Yip:Okay.

40:53Beth McDonough:I certainly think it's a helpful place to be. And again, you know, make sure you really love it and you're not feeling pressure to include it because it's on trend or on sale majorly. Right. I mean, make sure it's because it's something that you really, really love. And the other thing we talk about in the book is also, you know, mutual respect for the people that you share the room with. Meaning, you know, a family room is going to be used by you and your partner and maybe your kids and whoever else, you know, is going to be like in that space. It's a more public room in the house. And I think it's great to get everybody involved and to figure out like where the intersection is on the Venn diagram.

41:39Beth McDonough:Doesn't mean that everything in that room has to please everybody, but it does mean that everybody should feel heard and that there are clever ways to kind of look at the intersection of where everybody is. and then some things go one person's way and some things go another person's way. But at least we've come to a compromised position that we're all really, you know, that we all can live with. And I always tell people the best design comes out of compromise. When one person gets their way, you know, to the detriment of another, it's never going to be a lasting, enduring design. And that person who doesn't feel heard, that resentment is eventually going to come out in all kinds of like unhealthy ways.

42:25Beth McDonough:I've seen it many, many times. But then you talk about the more private spaces like your bedroom. Do your kids need to be involved in the decision on the colors and finishes in your bedroom? No, that's your bedroom. And that can be, you know, more personally reflective of just who you are and what you want and, you know, who your partner is or whoever you're sharing that room with and what they want. So, you know, it's important to discern like what are the more public spaces that everybody uses and what are the more private spaces and then to ensure that everybody, you know, is involved in that conversation and feels heard.

43:02Beth McDonough:And we kind of walk people through that in a step by step way.

43:05Vern Yip:Yeah, you've got the, you know, kind of the first maybe half or two thirds of the book is that the know how the all the pillars we've talked about. And then in the end, you have real client examples of ways you did that. And I loved the example you had of the partners who one was, I want to say, like had a background as an architect and really liked geometric, like clean things. And one who was really into fashion and liked more feminine, like bold colors and how you blended that together. So tell everybody about that client in particular and like what the room sort of ended up at to, you know, merge both of their looks.

43:50So, yeah.

43:51Vern Yip:Did I get all those details right? It's remarkable.

43:54Kaitlin O'Connor:He's like, I don't know what you're talking about.

43:55Beth McDonough:These are not the kinds of details that you can fake if you haven't like, you know, really read the book. So I can tell you've actually read it cover to cover.

44:04Vern Yip:I thought it was actually an architect. I don't know. Something.

44:07Beth McDonough:Yeah. No, you're right. So his background is in architecture and he does like things a little more straightforward, a little more clean lines, definitely kind of prefers more masculine colors or more neutral colors. She could not be more polar opposite. She is a more is more is more person, ultra feminine, floral, like florals everywhere, if possible, pink everywhere, if possible. And, you know, it's interesting because like, you know, you, you want the house to really be reflective of the two of them. And so there were areas, for example, where she just went full out. We did a guest bedroom for her because it's mostly her mother who will be staying in that bedroom and it is, you know, floral wallpaper, pink, you know, everywhere, just really, um, really very, very soft and feminine.

45:09Beth McDonough:And then we did, you know, his room, which was like sort of a lounge for him. Um, that was like kind of those deeper, more saturated masculine colors and was cleaner aligned in its approach. And, um, the, the idea then really became like, how do we like marry the two of them? How do we design their bedroom, for example? And so we went with a floral pattern, but it was abstracted and it was done with line work. And so it was really like a great compromise that they both were excited about. So that's what I'm sort of saying is like, you can find that compromise position and it's important to do so because, you know, this very antiquated saying that a lot of men used to put out there, happy wife, happy life.

46:03It's really actually sad that that's a statement because I think a lot of

46:11Beth McDonough:men sort of feel like I'm not allowed to have a voice in this because society says I shouldn't. And, you know, they then end up waking up in a, you know, pink floral bedroom every day and at some point feel like I hate being in this bedroom.

46:30Vern Yip:Oh, my gosh. I think the great thing about this anecdote, too, is that there are endless options in today's world. I mean, we live in this time where you can, there's so many fabrics, so many patterns, so many rugs. So there's no reason why you can't find something that you both can agree on. So I love that you're sort of challenging everyone to do that because like there are the options are out there. You can, you can find something.

46:59Beth McDonough:Well, and design is like anything else that happens in a relationship that you're really committed to, right? You don't always get your way, but the most successful relationships are about, you know, giving that other person respect, hearing them out, and then figuring out how to like land on the same page on most of the major items. like you may have to live with a taxidermy head on your wall, but, but you know, that other person will give in on something else. And it's about walking into that room at the end of the day and feeling like we respect each other. We hear what the other person has to say.

47:45Beth McDonough:You know, we do this in our relationships, at least in our healthy ones, um, in so many other ways, but it should also be done in terms of how you design and manifest the decor of your home.

47:58Vern Yip:Yeah. And I like how that project you had in the family room or living room, it was sort of a lot of gray pieces. There were some geometric shapes and there were these fuchsia hot pink velvet, I think, pillows and maybe drapery. So you could really clearly see like, okay, I can see how there's two people.

48:20Kaitlin O'Connor:Yeah.

48:21Vern Yip:Yeah. See the compromise. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

48:26Kaitlin O'Connor:We did that recently. I was picking out drapery for our living room, and I was trying to pick out fabrics. And I had all my swatches, and I taped them to the, like, you know. And my husband narrowed a bunch down, and we got down to three. And then he was like, I really don't like this one. It was my number one. And I was like, all right, that's fine. I like the other two. I chose, I had gathered the samples to begin with. So then we buy a bigger swatch of the two, and I kind of pin them up to the top of the window, They were like kind of pleaded, kind of gathered to be like, all right. He's like, I don't like either of those.

48:54Kaitlin O'Connor:I think the one you like the other one that I was like, OK, I'm listening to you. We won't do that one. But I thought that would be number one. He's like, I think that might have been the one. So then I bought a yardage, like a yardage that. And I put it on. He's like, yeah, that's the one. I was open to all of them, but I agreed. I was like, I feel like this one's the one. But, you know, so that was my like, it was a good learning for both of us of like, OK, maybe it was this one.

49:17Beth McDonough:What a healthy marriage. I know. I love that. That's very textbook. And you even point out something that we haven't discussed that we talk about in the book, which is, for example, if you are looking at fabric for drapery panels and it's patterned, do kind of pleat it up, you know, just the sample or the yard or whatever. because a pattern is going to look different flat than it's going to look when it's like, you know, hanging on your walls of drapery and pleated.

49:50Kaitlin O'Connor:Well, one of them did have a smaller stripe that was very spread apart. And as soon as I like kind of pleated it, it was like gone. It just looked linen and the little orange stripe was gone. And I was like, well, this one isn't going to work. So it was, it was a good test to be like, nope, too far apart there. So yeah, it was a good, yeah, didn't even know it. I didn't even read your book yet. I'm just that good.

50:13Beth McDonough:It's like we co-authored it together. It sounds like.

50:17Kaitlin O'Connor:Well, probably because I read your first and second book. I was already like cued into this.

50:23Vern Yip:Well, should we talk about your new TV show? We haven't talked about Home Reimagined yet, but tell our audience about your new show. The pilot's out. The rest of the episodes are coming before the end of the year.

50:36Beth McDonough:Before the end of 2025, we will have new episodes out. So the show is called Home Reimagined. It's for Magnolia and you can stream it on HBO Max and also Discovery Plus. And I have loved shooting it. So we have been traveling the country following projects from beginning to end. And these projects are all projects that were never intended to originally be homes that are being transformed into homes. um so the pilot for example shows you a um early 20th century sewing factory in upstate new york near the vermont border and so interesting to see um you know structures that never were designed to be homes like what you do to them to give them that feeling of home but at the same time respect the history and respect, you know, what makes it unique.

51:37Beth McDonough:It's so much harder to transform something like that into a home than to like renovate an old house, for example, or certainly much harder than building a house from scratch. Places that never really had kitchens or fireplaces or whatever, like how do you inject those things in a skillful, interesting way while preserving the personality of the space. So we follow the project from beginning to end. I get my hands really dirty. I've been doing a lot of demo. I've been doing a lot of jackhammering. There's been a lot of that. But then there's also a lot of design. And we always try to make sure that every episode is not only interesting and fun to watch, but that we're imparting a lot of good design advice as well that everybody can use.

52:29Yeah.

52:30Vern Yip:Did it take you back to your trading spaces days where you were so hands on during the design process?

52:35Beth McDonough:A little bit. Yeah. I mean, training spaces was like boot camp. Like you had to learn how to do it all. And to a certain extent, this is similar, but not the budget and the time component. We're really like, you know, doing these projects right. It's taking months and sometimes over a year to kind of do these transformations. and but it's really worth it and I love this idea of preserving some of these old structures and what makes them special rather than demoing them because I think it would be so easy to just demo them I mean these are not structures for example that are protected by some kind of historical society or rule or anything so you could easily demo them but these are people who recognize, you know, the uniqueness and how special they are, not only to them, but also to the community and are doing a wonderful job of preserving that while at the same time making it their own.

53:41Beth McDonough:So like we're transforming an old church, we're transforming an old brewery. It's like a lot of really, really interesting projects.

53:52Vern Yip:You say all of those, those three examples, the sewing factory, the brewery, the church, and I'm just thinking about the scale and the volume, the height volume, and how are you making that feel warm and cozy? Is that the goal? Maybe the goal is not to feel warm and cozy, but how do you turn this huge lofty space into something that feels livable? Yeah. And bringing human scale to it in all kinds of ways.

54:23Beth McDonough:You know, I'm not going to reveal them here, but I will say one thing.

54:26Vern Yip:You don't have to spoil anything. No.

54:30Beth McDonough:Drapery does wonders. But, you know, it's like making sure that, you know, the floor to ceiling drapes that really help warm up, you know, a really tall ceiling, getting the lighting down to human level. the scale of what you use like you know all of that comes into play to to then make you know absurd volumes actually feel advantageous versus like something that you have to contend with yeah imagine furniture to scale is also a big in big areas challenge yeah yeah I mean I I think and artwork and, you know, the proportions of a rug. Like all of those things are really important, but that's why I'm along for the process, you know.

55:20Beth McDonough:That's why I'm there.

55:21Vern Yip:Yeah. Bring in the excerpt.

55:23Beth McDonough:Make it, yeah, I'm not just free manual labor. There to dispense design advice.

55:29Vern Yip:Exactly, exactly. Well, I used to always love Bang for Your Buck. That was one of my favorites. Yes. Where, you know, I don't watch Bang for Your Buck. like decide who made the wisest design choices. That was always a favorite of mine.

55:46Beth McDonough:Yeah. I mean, mine too. It's just so interesting to, to be invited into somebody's home. And in large part, that's what color pattern texture is about is this idea that, you know, if your home is done correctly, meaning that it's a true reflection of who you are and how you want to feel in a space and how you want to live in that space. When you do invite somebody over to your house, it should be like for that person, the best invitation that they could get. Because what you're essentially saying is I'm inviting you over to come to get to know me better. I mean, even the books that are out on your table, on your coffee table, for example, or on your bookshelves, like it drives me insane people who like have all their books wrapped in white like where you can't see the titles or flip them you know so that the pages are like facing out just because it looks nicer yeah that drives me bananas um for for me like you know books are so special and they do add so much to a space and um and they should really reflect who you are and what your interests are.

56:55Beth McDonough:And, you know, even that simple thing of what's on your coffee table reveals a lot, hopefully, about who you are to the guests who come into your home.

57:05Kaitlin O'Connor:Not day to day, I hope, because I think mine's covered in Pokemon and monster trucks from

57:09Vern Yip:But that's revealing, too. It is. It's very revealing. Anything can be a track if you can put it. Yeah. Well, a shameless plug to the house tour that we just shot of your home. You have a fabulous book collection. There are books in every space, photography books and all sorts of books. Amazing. And I loved seeing the way you display them and sort of use them to display sculpture and all sorts of things.

57:37Beth McDonough:I know. I look at all of these books. I love books. And I just think, oh my gosh, you know, before I leave this earth, I've got to do something with these books. I cannot leave these for my children to have to contend with like what are you gonna do with all of dad's books

57:55Kaitlin O'Connor:i love it you need your own little book estate like sale i know it's just so hard to like say

58:01Beth McDonough:i find it hard to say goodbye to books yeah yeah yeah that would be really hard yeah but i feel

58:07Vern Yip:like one day you can they can auction them off at like a sotheby's auction your book collection or

58:13Beth McDonough:something you know what i mean like yeah well maybe i'll i'll give that suggestion to my kids Like after I'm gone, just auction them. Take what you want and then auction the rest.

58:22Vern Yip:People buy those books by the yard. Like it's the same. It could be the same thing. No, he has good books. My point is that people buy them in bulk. Like someone out there needs a whole library to fill. So, you know, you don't have to get rid of them.

58:40Beth McDonough:Yes. I would say though, rather than buy your books by the yard, take your time and gradually fill those bookshelves with things that really speak to you if a home is done correctly everything that anything that anybody can pick up should you should be able to tell them why it's there and what the meaning is to you it doesn't mean that we all start off that way most of us have to have placeholder items it's just how it is yeah but You know, as life progresses, start replacing those placeholder items with things that really have meaning. And again, that's what the book is really about is like when we talk about color, when we talk about pattern, when we talk about texture, have those elements really be meaningful to you.

59:28Beth McDonough:Because one person, for example, might be really energized by the color red. And you think, okay, well, red's for a high energy room. Somebody else might really respond to it differently. It might make them angry or agitated. It might put them to sleep.

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1:00:11Beth McDonough:So we're all different in how we respond to all of these things. And at the end of the day, it's about really honing in on what's meaningful to you and infusing your home with those really meaningful components.

1:00:28Vern Yip:Well, Vern, we do have a design dilemma that we would love your assistance with. It's from Melissa. And you've got photos right here.

1:00:36Beth McDonough:Oh, I do. Okay, it's like a pop quiz.

1:00:39Vern Yip:Yeah, exactly.

1:00:41Kaitlin O'Connor:It really is. This is a do you know your stuff? No, I'm kidding. You do.

1:00:48Beth McDonough:We'll see, won't we? The suspense.

1:00:51Vern Yip:I'm going to quickly read the question and then you can take a stab at it. Hi, ladies. I have a little mountain cabin I'm redesigning with a comfortable Ralph Lauren vibe as the inspiration. The bedrooms are a good size. The kitchen is roomy enough. But the living area is strange. We really are only working with 124 inches by 100 inches and want as much comfortable seating as possible. We're going to paint the walls, fireplace, surround and ceiling, change the mantle, bring it down as it's too high and put the TV above it. So as the current TV's position is in the entryway and doesn't make much sense.

1:01:21Vern Yip:We think mounting the TV will free up space on the ground for seating. But any ideas on the best sofa chair combination to maximize comfortable seating in our tiny cabin?

1:01:30Beth McDonough:Oh, that, I mean, if you're mounting your television in your entryway.

1:01:36Vern Yip:Yeah. Yeah. Small living area.

1:01:38Beth McDonough:You have a small space.

1:01:40Kaitlin O'Connor:Mm-hmm.

1:01:41Beth McDonough:Oh, I see. It's like right next to her front door.

1:01:45Kaitlin O'Connor:She's got like a stone fireplace with a wood mantle that is very high. She's got natural pine ceilings, it looks like, drywall for the actual walls, and then the floor is also very kind of piney.

1:01:59Beth McDonough:Yeah. And did she say she was moving the TV?

1:02:02Kaitlin O'Connor:So she was going to move the mantle down and put the TV on the... Over the mantle. Over the mantle.

1:02:08Beth McDonough:Okay. On the stone. Yes. Great. So what's really... So many great things, first off, to love about this space. And I think it really underscores that you don't have to have a lot of square footage to have a really great, interesting space. So what I'm first noticing here is that you have this lovely fireplace that serves as a focal point. So I, if you're going to be mounting your television above your fireplace, first off, I think, you know, that then even underscores more why that should be like a primary focal point. And I think it's important to talk about where the focal point is because it oftentimes dictates where the seating is.

1:02:50Beth McDonough:I am not somebody who ever likes having to turn their head to see the TV. I just think like that's not viable for your primary viewing screen. Secondary or tertiary maybe. But if this is really where you're watching your TV, I think you should be able to sit there and you should be able to look straightforward. So that immediately says to me that what we should probably be looking at is either two sofas that are orthogonal to each other with a round kind of corner table or a sectional that goes in front of the window and then makes a turn to then face, to allow people to face the fireplace and the television.

1:03:38Beth McDonough:Then I would look at probably a swivel chair, I think, to the corner of that fireplace so that that person who's in that the swivel chair can pivot and be part of a conversation if we're not really watching TV, or they can pivot and actually see the screen. But then, you know, having space between the end of that sectional and the swivel in order for it there to be an access point. So that's probably what I would suggest. When you have a small space, fewer pieces, but larger pieces will make that space feel more significant and visually expansive so i i think like a sectional makes a lot of sense in this particular instance um also flip your page i so for melissa's sake

1:04:37Kaitlin O'Connor:this is the the next page is her after so she did start on a few pieces for ralph lauren if you flip again.

1:04:45Beth McDonough:She did.

1:04:45Kaitlin O'Connor:She had added a few more.

1:04:48Vern Yip:It looks like an L-shaped sectional like you suggested.

1:04:51Beth McDonough:I see.

1:04:52Vern Yip:So you're saying the sectional should face the mantle.

1:04:56Beth McDonough:I think it should face the mantle if that's where her TV is going to be.

1:05:04Vern Yip:And it seems like she could probably do that with this sectional, which looks like it kind of has a little chaise at the end.

1:05:12Beth McDonough:And those look like swivels.

1:05:14Vern Yip:that she's got.

1:05:15Beth McDonough:Yes. So, yeah, she absolutely can still, I would say, I mean, here it looks like her TV's on top of a hutch or dresser or something, a buffet maybe. If she's still going to melt it.

1:05:28Kaitlin O'Connor:Yeah, I'm assuming so. I think that's an eventual thing. It sounded like their future is going to move it down and put it there.

1:05:34Beth McDonough:Yeah. I would still say, yes, you are better off flipping your new sectional to face the mantle and then having perhaps looking at your swivels, flanking the fireplace. You know, we have to see if there's enough room, especially because that chaise is poking out. But I think that that's potentially a good solution. And I love the Ralph Lauren vibe. I think that's really returning. It's kind of very, very much trending up. So is it Melissa?

1:06:06Kaitlin O'Connor:Yes.

1:06:07Beth McDonough:Melissa, you are a trendsetter.

1:06:09Kaitlin O'Connor:And she painted the ceilings.

1:06:11Beth McDonough:Yes. I feel bad.

1:06:13Kaitlin O'Connor:I was like, oh, now I see. Okay.

1:06:16Beth McDonough:And you have a cute dog.

1:06:17Kaitlin O'Connor:Oh, my gosh. The dog is so cute.

1:06:18Beth McDonough:So much going for you.

1:06:19Vern Yip:There's this little pug just standing by the front door looking out. And also, y 'all, look, she used her Francis floral pillows. Those pillows in the chair. Oh, nice. Love those in there. It's sort of like a brown background with these, like, florals on the front. Love them. They're great.

1:06:35Beth McDonough:But, you know, in this particular instance, you can see that Melissa has this great patterned rug. and it works with this American flag art that she has. And those two elements really serve as wonderful jumping off points to then pull in the blue on the sectional to come up with a striped fabric. I love the pattern on pattern. She has this striped fabric on top of this Bokaro rug and they're all pulling from the same color palette, but it just shows you very specifically and more precisely who Melissa is and what her point of view is. Like, I feel like she's done a good job of introducing us to her.

1:07:15Vern Yip:Yeah.

1:07:16Beth McDonough:And she has great taste in dogs.

1:07:18Vern Yip:And it feels cozy. Great taste in dogs. Like you want in a mountain house. Okay, well, great job, Melissa. It sounds like you're on the right track. I know. I think we just told her. What? Guys. There's, I didn't get all the way to the back page. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. I know.

1:07:36Kaitlin O'Connor:She did a great job including photos, and I stopped at page one.

1:07:40Vern Yip:There were a lot of pages.

1:07:42Beth McDonough:Yeah, there's an after.

1:07:43Vern Yip:Yeah, there's an after. And I think she can use all the components in her after.

1:07:45Beth McDonough:I think it's just a matter of pivoting where the furniture is.

1:07:50Vern Yip:I think that's going to be really interesting, too, if she does move the sofa to face the mantle. Because that means that the sofa is going to end up creating an entryway because of where the door is placed. So it might totally transform the whole space and how she walks into it. and uses that.

1:08:11Beth McDonough:I think that's very true. And I also think when you move that section off of the window, you'll now be able to sit and actually look out the window.

1:08:22Vern Yip:And enjoy that view. Instead of it being just behind you the whole time. Yeah. Just because you're in the cabin doesn't mean you need to put all of the outdoors, keep the outdoors outdoor. You want that view.

1:08:35Beth McDonough:You want that interaction with nature.

1:08:39Kaitlin O'Connor:How hard? I'm just, this is a question I have for you, Vern. How hard is it to take? This fireplace is like, oh, there's like a step, you know? You have a hearth. The hearth is so tall. I was like, without that hearth, she would get back like you.

1:08:56Vern Yip:But what if she put like a little, okay, you know, there's like, maybe this is a terrible idea. I don't know. You're the designer. But what if she put like little cushions? I always like a hearth that has a step up. A seating area? Yeah, it becomes a little spot for seating if you, you know.

1:09:12Kaitlin O'Connor:I was trying to get her an extra foot in there. That was what I was trying to do. I mean, it looked like too much work probably because the box, it looks like it's a firebox and then you'd have to bring that down and stuff.

1:09:23Beth McDonough:Yeah, I mean, it would be a little bit of work. Yeah, probably too much. But at the same time, yes, I completely respect. If you were starting from scratch, you wouldn't have necessarily made that choice.

1:09:36Kaitlin O'Connor:Yeah, if you were going to make a small little living room, you might take the hearth out just because it's all stone and it takes away another foot out of the room. Right.

1:09:45Beth McDonough:Very nice.

1:09:46Kaitlin O'Connor:So nice. What a great space. Right?

1:09:48Beth McDonough:Yeah.

1:09:50Kaitlin O'Connor:A little mountain home.

1:09:51Beth McDonough:And great pillows. Like, she is not afraid of pattern, which I love. I know.

1:09:56Kaitlin O'Connor:I think she just actually came on to brag. I know. These are all Ballard pillows. I think she's just bragging. I think she's just like, look how great I am. And she did a Bible show.

1:10:07Beth McDonough:Fine, Melissa, you're great. You're actually really great. We agree, you're great.

1:10:11Kaitlin O'Connor:You're fantastic. It is. It's really cute. So, so cute.

1:10:15Beth McDonough:Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited premium wireless for$15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made$15 bills. but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.

1:10:37Vern Yip:Upfront payment of$45 for three months, $90 for six months or$180 for 12 month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. Vern, can you tell everyone where they can find you, follow you and pick up your new book and watch your show? Don't forget that.

1:10:51Beth McDonough:Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah, you can absolutely follow me on Instagram, on Facebook, at Verniup Designs. The new book, Color Pattern Texture, publication date is October 14th, but please pre-order. Now it's sold everywhere where books are sold. And the new show is Home Reimagined for Magnolia and streaming on HBO Max and Discovery Plus. Watch the pilot now and then we'll have new episodes out to you before the end of the year. Fabulous.

1:11:26Vern Yip:And you're planning on being at our Atlanta store for a book signing coming up.

1:11:31Beth McDonough:For a book signing, October 23rd. Yes. Yes.

1:11:36Vern Yip:I love the confirmed third, right? Yes. Yeah. It's underway.

1:11:42Beth McDonough:I think it's like six to eight.

1:11:44Vern Yip:I believe so. Yes. Six to eight.

1:11:46Beth McDonough:Because I have on my calendar, 530. Get there early.

1:11:51Vern Yip:You know what? Sometimes we get some early birds. So, yeah. Yeah.

1:11:55Beth McDonough:so early birds if you're there at 5.30 I'll be there too you'll have one on one time

1:12:01Vern Yip:yeah maybe we'll have

1:12:03Beth McDonough:a personal shopping session at Ballard

1:12:06Kaitlin O'Connor:oh I love that yeah oh you can have

1:12:09Vern Yip:a lot of new listeners there you go

1:12:10Kaitlin O'Connor:5.30 personal shopping I'll be there

1:12:12Beth McDonough:so I'm happy

1:12:13Kaitlin O'Connor:to help you yes bring your pictures of your house that you need help yeah awesome

1:12:21Vern Yip:alright well that's our show thanks for stopping by thanks so much

1:12:24Beth McDonough:thanks for having me

1:12:24Vern Yip:This is great. And that's our show.

1:12:28Kaitlin O'Connor:You can find all of the show notes on our blog, howtodecorate.com slash podcast. To send in a decorating dilemma, email your questions to podcast at BallardDesigns.net so we can help you with your space. And of course, be sure to follow us on social media at Ballard Designs.

1:12:42Vern Yip:Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback. Until next time, happy decorating.