Ep. 439: Designing for Real Life with Brian Patrick Flynn

9:16Kaitlin Johnson:I probably lean more modern, but yeah.

9:20Brian Patrick Flynn:I feel like your house is very traditional. Yes. It's rooted in tradition. And it's form. And then your forms you like, I would say, are modern. Yeah, that's true. And Caroline likes a clean silhouette.

9:32Brittany Hayes:I've seen pictures of Caroline's house. It's perfect. It actually looks like, well, I think it looks like your personal style as well. Yeah, definitely. I can see that house. Taryn, I'd be fascinated to know what yours is.

9:45Brian Patrick Flynn:Pattern or no pattern? Your house is more traditional. Yes. I feel like you use a lot of traditional forms, but you have a very playful palette. Yes. I feel like I'm closer to being like you. I like to pack a punch of color.

9:59Kaitlin Johnson:It can't be plain or it's boring. No, that's totally true. Yeah. But I think what's really exciting is like we all have Ballard in our house, a lot Ballard in our house. And it plays to either one. Yeah. If you want to go more traditional or if you want to go a little bit modern.

10:17Brittany Hayes:My house, my Atlanta house is a 1965 mid-century modern. And I would say at least three or four of the rooms have pillows that are from Ballard or accessories that have been bought in the past 12 to 13 years. And they're definitely traditional, but they fit in perfectly in this super modern house. and that is especially with a lot of the the designer collections you have like through miles red and susan castler's another one right and buddy williams a lot of those can easily fit any different type of architecture but i want to ask something on this podcast that's super controversial okay um and i did this last week i was at adac and i went to one of my interior designer friends who lives in jacksonville and he's another designer that uses a ton of color and you know when you go to a talk afterwards you open it up for questions i always want to be the icebreaker because i know the audience people are terrified to be called out they're there in the audience they don't want all of a sudden 100 people looking at them for their questions so i just usually break the ice by asking a question but i i didn't know if i was going to get an answer or not and the question was i wanted to know what his most used paint color is mine is sherman williams extra white and then after that would be sherman williams tricorn black and uh he didn't answer the paint question because he said i don't have one because every single house i do is so different there's i don't have one paint color to choose more than others and that blew my mind because most designer clients of mine will be like, hey, will you please tell us what whites or blacks to use?

11:36Brittany Hayes:But he said his least favorite color was orange. And working for HD, I've been working with HGTV since 2010. So after 16 years, a lot of my work has always been based on SEO. And so I used to -

11:47Brian Patrick Flynn:You need to get into that more in a minute. Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to.

11:50Brittany Hayes:Like I am basically SEOs. I can't say B-I-T-C-H, but if I could, my job has been SEO for about 16 years.

11:57Brian Patrick Flynn:well will you tell people what seo is just in case they don't know what it is yeah yeah so anybody

12:02Brittany Hayes:that is listening and they're like what's he talking about it means search engine optimization so it's whatever you put into the google or the put it on google or on a search bar on a website what happens is the network like in hgtvs was collecting all that data and if it turns out there are a hundred thousand people in within like a 10 month span that are saying how do i use beige in a bathroom. That means they need to have videos or photographs of beige bathrooms to answer what those people want. And so our search engine optimization has been something that's been given to me to design off of for the past 16 years.

12:37Brittany Hayes:I think that's what's so unique about my job. And it's also why as a production designer, brands have hired me because they'll be like, listen, we're pushing this whole line of cranberry paint next year, or we're going to be going into royal tones next year with royal purples and greens and blues we need rooms that can suggest that that are over the top and some that are real that reel it in a little bit but where was why did i bring up seo i'm saying oh it's talking about so back when i said i'm super tangential so thank you for keeping my thank you for keeping my leash on this is your this is your medium thank you yeah you'll keep me at bay i feel like i'm a little dog going to his training trait um but what i was going to say is he had mentioned his least favorite was orange and back when i first started working with hgt back in 2010 orange red and brown were universally the most hated colors i and one of my favorite things to do as an interior designer is is everybody has a thing they do with their clients i want to know what our absolute nose from the homeowners first like they hate this color they hate this pattern they hate this silhouette this piece of art i hate it it's like they might have it but it might have been passed down and they're like i hate that painting but i have to have it somewhere in the house and i want you to figure out where it goes but um so tara what would

13:47Brian Patrick Flynn:be your what would be your least favorite color least favorite yeah oh man i have one i do we have one that's what i'm really trying to think through because i love war i love orange i love i feel like it's like a i don't know aqua probably is my least favorite probably caroline what about

14:06Brittany Hayes:you yeah orange wow so wait you said you said orange you said aqua aqua i'm shocked i figure most people would actually find that to be a palatable, like, saturated tone. Yeah.

14:19Kaitlin Johnson:Beige. Oh, my gosh. I can't beige.

14:22Brittany Hayes:So I am torn between beige and lime green. Yellow.

14:25Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah, lime green is pretty bad, too. I don't like lime green. You like lime green. I can do greens. Like a chartreuse?

14:31Brittany Hayes:Yeah. But I think...

14:32Brian Patrick Flynn:But lime. Lime green is not chartreuse. No, that's true.

14:36Brittany Hayes:Lime green is... Well, people... There's lime green at the bottom of that painting. But my answer has always been beige.

14:42Brian Patrick Flynn:It's always been beige. That's lime green. Okay, so chartreuse has more yellow and it's a little dirty. Yeah. Right? Chartreuse is dirty. That's chartreuse right there. See, we all agree that's chartreuse. Okay. This is like... That would be more. Like slime green.

14:57Brittany Hayes:Yes, because chartreuse has a little bit of acid green in it. Okay, no slime green. Yeah, no slime green. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is what's killing me. So all these years, beige has never been anything I've had experience with.

15:07Brian Patrick Flynn:But I like beige in winter... No, winter wardrobe. oh yeah well yeah love camel oh love camel that's fair i know it's not in a home yes nearby it's not beige only linen linen i can do but you're not going to call a beige wall linen see maybe

15:26Kaitlin Johnson:just need to rebranding okay i love beige when i first moved to atlanta i moved into a townhouse and all the walls were beige throughout the entire place and i every apartment and i could Not painted. And then the carpeting, the wall-to-wall carpeting matched as well. And it was. But that is terrible. Yeah, I'm glad to not live there anymore.

15:45Brian Patrick Flynn:But I like beige as a neutral mixed in with color. But I don't like beige as like a monotone.

15:52Brittany Hayes:Right. So I just, I say that, but I actually just finished my very first, like, almost all beige project. And I can't believe I'm saying this, but this particular shade of beige kind of sold me on it. I know. I know. I know. Go on. No. Tell us more. I think I have learned the difference between the beige that we all know from the 80s and 90s, where the carpet and the walls and the ceiling. Builder beige. The builder beige. And also the furniture that's meant to go into like a corporate rental is all beige. It's almost like a dirty looking cream. But then there's khaki, which is kind of, which is in the camel world and it embraces itself more.

16:28And if you look at the color card, there are, on the color card, there's khakis that can fall more into the almost brown.

16:36Brittany Hayes:gray world. So I've rebranded beige. In my world, if I have clients that need that color tone in their house, I'm going to be calling it like the khaki family. And it works for me because this house that I just finished, I just did my first lake house ever. I've never done a lake house. And after sitting there watching the view with this beautiful bold teal go through almost every single room in the house, it is really nice to have that visual rest from your eyes, letting the neutral frame, the beautiful blue, and then the blue sky, and then the green. So this is my first time doing it. I felt like such a fish out of water because just like Liz, my intro has always been beige, but luckily lime green didn't play in at all in this place.

17:16I do feel like muddy colors look good in the lake house because the setting is muddier

17:24Brian Patrick Flynn:and more like woody versus like a beach house where everything's more like a clean, tones. I kind of agree. A house in nature is almost better with less color to me because the nature is. We're living in a city where I'm looking. My views are other houses. I want the inside to be playful because my view is a neighbor's fence or, you know, like or my or the garden. But I'm just saying I think that does because I wouldn't. Hey, that's why I don't want beige. I don't know.

17:55Brittany Hayes:Well, and also a beach to me, a beach house. That's where pure whites can come in because you're framing either if you if you're if you're doing a beach house in 30a you're going to have the white sand if you're where i'm from in fort lauderdale it's going to be brown sand but still people would have white interiors but i think when you're on the lake you usually have a ton of trees and wood whereas on a beach you just have a horizon line and blue and white or blue and beige and i think that is why the warmer tones really work well inside but i still can't believe that i just did a house and i'm super excited to share it on social because yeah i mean there's a lot of beige and it worked it's not flat at all it's actually it's got a lot

18:23Brian Patrick Flynn:the depth so how did you work the beige in in a way that made you happy yeah and added yeah so

18:31Brittany Hayes:the particular project that i'm talking about is so for the past 11 years i've been the designer of the hgtv dream home and this is officially this is this is not actually brand new this nobody knows it yet except for hollis but this will officially be my last one uh it's sad to walk away because i've been really really proud of this project for the past decade and things when i was brought on back in 2015, I was supposed to do one of them. In the TV world, this is what's referred to as a tentpole. So for example, like American Idol will be Fox's tentpole. It's like the one thing that people, they know every year people are excited about, and then you build other programming around it.

19:08Brittany Hayes:Well, it already been around for, I think, close to 20 years when I came on board. And I was asked by my boss at the time who my bosses have been incredible. In fact, all of them were sitting at my wedding reception because they're all friends for life. I thought I was doing it for one year and then all of a sudden my wedding reception was 2018 which means this was like four years into it well I kept getting renewed and renewed and renewed and I think the reason being is my job as a production designer has been so different than a straight-up residential private client decorator interior designer because SEO is such a huge part of my job so I am hired again and again because I have one department that is wall covering which would be paint and or well paint and or wallpaper and maybe any other type of thing like a mixture that could create the look of like a not not faux painting but like plaster so i usually i usually wall carving because it's more broad then we have we have home furnishings then we have like pavers then we have like composite decking then we have the appliances the countertops the cabinets there's like dozens and dozens of different categories that fit into something like this so when i'm hired i have these massive spreadsheets that show everybody's flighting And when I say flighting in the world of marketing, there are certain things that need to be out in the world at this time through this type of merchandising.

20:24Brian Patrick Flynn:Like their schedule, marketing schedule.

20:26Brittany Hayes:For the sake of making sure this is out, it's almost like a campaign. So I have to check my own ego at the door and know I've got all this data from all these different brands. Like we want these particular 12 colors are going to be used because these are the ones that are going to be really big in 2026. or these are all the pieces of furniture that you're allowed to have access to because these are the vendors that we will have in stock in 20, a year from now. So it's been a very complicated design process because I really can't have my own opinion. I have to take all these opinions and then create a cohesive design that best showcases all these different things.

20:58Brittany Hayes:And now that this is, I just completed my last one, it's bittersweet because I really enjoyed it. It has also kept me in so many other cities, which is, until I became a dad, it was incredible. Like I got to spend, And I always get to spend the fall in these places. I got to spend one fall in Washington State, which is flawless. It was not a single day of rain. It was pure sunshine. And the day I got on the plane to leave Washington State was the very beginning of legit fall when it starts to rain. I never got to see that. And then the year after that, I was in Whitefish, Montana, which is one of the most spectacular places in the country.

21:29Brittany Hayes:And I happened to be there all throughout fall. So I got there and things were starting to turn yellow. And by the time that I left, the trees were bare. So I had this incredible, like, over-decade run, which I'm so grateful for. and I'm going to miss it because I love that job so much. There's this Taylor Swift song on the tortured poets department. It's called So Long London. And every time I hear it, I have to listen to it by myself because it makes me sad. Because there's this whole layer. She talks about like, she's going to miss it because she loved this place because she lived in London and left a relationship.

21:54Brittany Hayes:But I've been in this relationship with this job for over a decade. I've loved it so much. But the thing that's so cool is this would not have been sustainable when I was a new dad. I can't be gone seven months a year with a little one at home. Yeah. You know what I mean? Everybody here, Everybody in this conversation is a parent, right? Yes. Is anybody else in this group before a parent of a girl?

22:16Brian Patrick Flynn:Yes.

22:17Brittany Hayes:Okay. Okay, so two of us have girls. I'm a one and done. So Halston and I, Clover, she's our only child. I'm turning 50 next year. So I think that I had her when I was 47. One of the things that I learned is like the importance of consistency. And I didn't have it for so many years. And that's what I loved about my professional life is that I got to be in a different city every single year, but that doesn't work anymore when you have somebody who has milestones every week. And I asked about the girl thing now because there's something really, really unique about the father-daughter relationship and the mother-son relationship.

22:50Brittany Hayes:And I'm number three out of four kids and there's two boys and two girls. And I think I was always closest with my mom. And when I was a little boy with my dad for sports and stuff, but there's something about having a little toddler now where I don't want to be gone. Like, right? When they're this age, I just want to be home.

23:08Brian Patrick Flynn:Well, it's like you work so hard to have them, too. And like, so then you're like, well, at least in my case, I was like, I wanted this. Like, this is what I wanted. So for me to then like escape from it feels a little like I'm missing the best. A few days, maybe a week. Oh, no, it does. No, I agree. No, after the weekend, I was very happy to send them to school. That's not it. But I meant like to miss the big stuff. You do. You're like, this is why I had them. I wanted to enjoy this. I want to enjoy their happiness. And I feel like with adults, like, there's so few big milestones once you hit adulthood.

23:43Brian Patrick Flynn:You know what I mean? Like, hi, listeners. If this episode has inspired you to tackle a project in your own home, we want to help with a special offer just for podcast fans. We know how exciting it is to bring your vision to life, whether you're updating a room or starting a refresh. You'll find everything you need to create a space that feels uniquely yours. As a thank you for listening, enjoy 20 % off plus free shipping on your next order with the code PODCAST20. Visit BallardDesigns.com to get started. Your dream home is just a click away. Use PODCAST20 for 20 % off plus free shipping. Code's not combinable with other offers.

24:16Brian Patrick Flynn:See terms and conditions for details. All right. Happy decorating. Let's get back to the show.

24:23Brian Patrick Flynn:It's wedding. Weddings, babies, maybe like a big job or... but like they're kind of like they're years between them right whereas kids like they're all the time especially babies and then like their first ballet recital and their first day of school and like it just there's so many miles I know it's like there's always something that's like their first yeah there's always the first on the way and so it's fun you don't want to miss any of them

24:47Brittany Hayes:and that's the one thing I'm so proud of when I've been asked by people like what are your like what are your what accomplishments are you the most proud of and I think waiting till I was older to become a dad when I already had my career kind of taken care of and I'd been really smart financially with all my choices and being with HGTV for so long there has not been a lot of there's not been a lot of off months because being the designer on two mega franchises was incredible but it comes with a lot of responsibility and a lot of people's opinions and a lot of executives who've all been incredible to work with so I started to realize like wait something's going to change pretty soon and I think waiting till I was 47 to become a dad allowed me to I'm much more patient now if I would have been a dad at 30 or 31 I would have been impatient i also would have had fomo for my friends who were out living their 30s so i got to do my 20s and my 30s and my 40s out there now at the end of the day i love the idea of friday

25:36Brian Patrick Flynn:night being inside watching miss rachel and being in bed by eight are you familiar are you familiar

25:43Brittany Hayes:the things that you start to talk about when you oh my gosh there's so many songs like the itsy bitsy spider and then uh oh my gosh all these songs that i thought i retired forever at the age of Six are now back in my life and they're on rotation and Lisa Loeb this big 1990s pop star who sang that song that was in Reality Bites she has all of these children's albums and they are freaking incredible so now I have this I'm able to like play and then there are all these there's all these things called Rockabye Baby where they take actual classic rock and pop songs and do them specifically on the xylophone so like every Taylor Swift hit even if it's not a radio hit it's like there's a song called August they have A rock-a-bye baby version.

26:24Brittany Hayes:So your kid could be in the car and you're singing along to all the words, but the kid is getting to hear all the xylophone. And so the xylophone notes. So there's so many things now that being a parent in the digital age that are good, but like the screen time, that is not, we're not doing that. Like that's hard to fight. That is hard. Right? Because you know it'll keep them attentive. But at the same time, the dopamine hits not real. And then they expect it all the time. So it's a dance right now.

26:50Brian Patrick Flynn:Okay. How has your home changed? since Clover's come along. Yeah. Because, you know, people can find your house. You've done a Homeworthy tour. It's been published in all sorts of magazines. So they can find your fabulous midsertory home. Has it changed much since she's joined? Did you always dream

27:05Kaitlin Johnson:of having a ball pit

27:06Brian Patrick Flynn:in your home?

27:08Brittany Hayes:Wow. There's a lot of questions being thrown at me right now. I have to process all this. So the funny thing about when I did the Homeworthy tour, it was Clover's only five months old. And it was the one day on my schedule that I had available in Atlanta in between HGTV Dream Home and another project that I was doing at the time. And I was not ready. It's one of the first things that's been out there on the internet that I didn't have enough time to have my, because you know, in real life, especially when you have kids, rooms are not really styled. You have piles everywhere. Like the house can still be clean, but it's by no means paired back or editorialized enough where you want people to see it.

27:45Brittany Hayes:And I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to go with it and just let the house be shot the way it was. And every time I see it, part of me is like, listen, it's real life. And another part of me is like, those side tables look terrible. Like, you guys are on a fresh floral there. So I washed a little bit of it, and then I was slowly cringing inside because it was not the way I wanted it to look. But to answer your question, so I've never really been a true minimalist, but I'm a massive fan of, like, pure ultra-white painted floors because of the way they reflect light. And in my mid-century modern house, the exterior is tricord black.

28:18Brittany Hayes:So is our cabin. Our cabin in LJ, which is an hour and a half north, is also all tricorn black exterior and then all extra white Sherwin-Williams on the walls and the floors. The reason I've always liked the white is mostly because I love how it bounces. The white is because I love how it bounces light. Well, people kept telling me, hey, once you have a kid, that can change. And I would argue and I'd say, no, no, no, no. Before I had white floors, I had glossy black floors. And a lot of people would say, are you kidding doing pure white floors with a kid? And I'm like, listen, it's actually the glossy black floors that show everything.

28:46Brittany Hayes:They become a mirror. and so i was always i always push back on people like white is easy to wipe and i do stand by that but what's happening is my little inanimate object was learning to crawl and there is a massive difference between the thud like that onto a hardwood floor and then a thud that's like this onto carpet because you know when you hear the the muted fall yeah there's no cry and there's no running to make sure she's okay. But when it was like on wood, even if she wasn't hurt, I was freaking out. So now to answer your question, how's my house look? You no longer know that I have white floors because every single surface on the main floor of our house, we have two levels, is covered in the 20 inch by 20 inch modular carpet tiles and all different types of colors.

29:34Brittany Hayes:And so when you walk into my house now, what has changed is every single room is like technicolor. Even if the walls are white, there's like a ton of color and pattern on the floor. And the reason I'm so proud of it is watching her freaking development. Like she's walking down the hallway and it's all Roy G. And she's like, she's like yellow, green, blue. And she just knows it. And then she walks into another room and it's blue and white plaid, blue, white, purple plaid, blue, white, purple. So she's learning as she walks through every room and she looks at the art, Dolly Parton, like she'll see people, she knows things now.

30:08Brittany Hayes:And I've realized that the way that I've decorated the house is like super educational. And it wasn't on purpose. It just happened. And now every time my sister's kids want to play, everybody wants to be at Uncle Brian's house because it's like one huge playroom. It's not for everybody, but I also want to raise my daughter there. And yes, I do have a ball pit, Liz. I never thought I'd have a ball pit.

30:26Kaitlin Johnson:I saw that on your Instagram. I was impressed.

30:28Brittany Hayes:Thank you for being impressed because I was mortified when I put that out there. But the ball pits these days, this is what's happened so much with the younger generations, is you can get a ball pit and you don't have to get all primary colors. You can choose the exact palette of the balls you want. So I specifically went with different shades of navy, white, and lavender. And it fits in perfectly. And every kid that walks in that damn house, they go right to that ball pit. Guess the one kid who has no interest in the ball pit.

30:51Brian Patrick Flynn:Over.

30:52Brittany Hayes:Yeah, she's like, yeah, whatever. It's here all the time. Jump in as much as you want. She's in the corner, usually playing with her Taylor Swift dolls. We do have Taylor Swift dolls. It is a very ongoing thing in the house. Like we're like huge. our baby moon was to Tokyo to go to the heirs tour. It was an incredible baby moon. That's amazing. That was in February 2024. It was a month and a half before she was born.

31:18Brian Patrick Flynn:Wow.

31:19Brittany Hayes:A year and a half ago.

31:20Brian Patrick Flynn:Time flies, right? I heard the most shameful thing about you. You like 5 ,000 Kelvin light bulbs? I know.

31:30Brittany Hayes:Explain those. I'm so

31:32Brian Patrick Flynn:Oh, gross. Shocked and appalled.

31:34Brittany Hayes:It's disgusting. I know, I know. I hate myself for it. So I had years ago, one of the big milestones of my career was in June of 2018, I got my first major cover. It was House Beautiful. And it was for, we have a vacation home in Iceland and it was for the cover. And my main photographer who I had been working with for so many years, Robert, and I had shot the cover for me. Like we had not, we'd shot our own images and not HTTPs, House Beautiful loved the images so much. They're like, we want to run the images that you and Robert shot. And she never told me I got the cover, but she invited me over to the editor on my way back from Iceland to stop in New York to come back because the flight's back home.

32:12Brittany Hayes:The latest you can do is like six o 'clock. And by the time you connect, you can't come back. So I spent the night in New York and we sat down for dinner and she plopped it in front of me. And I'm like, wait a second. I thought maybe we'd have like a one or two page spread. I never thought I'd get the cover. And I could not believe it was a full spread. Where I was going with that was the Kelvin thing. so um i had just come back from iceland which is which in the winter is has a lot of bright white because there's a lot of snow it's not necessarily super cold but the snow sticks and my obsession with 5 000 pure blue daylight led kelvin has to do with my career as a production designer because when you are in charge of a brand new color collection for a paint sponsor you have got to make sure that when those TV camera lights come on, it's the exact shade of green or red or brown or beige or white or blue or aqua that they are selling.

33:04Brittany Hayes:And the best way to do that is by having the most pure white light as possible on when you're flipping on the practicals. So I've always lived in this world of using bright colors. And then when I started to put on like 3000 Kelvin in my house and everything started to yellow, I'd be like, hey, I like pure ultra white. But when I put all the lights on, I have it. Now I've got a cream or beige living room. And it kills me because people come over designers and they're like doing it. Did he really use that? They'll come over. And then my one client who I have my own lighting light with Chris Rama too.

33:35Brittany Hayes:And a lot of times I used the 5 ,000 Kelvin bulbs. She loves, I had this one fixture. It's like my bestseller. It's called the Truax, T-R-U-A-X. It's my mother's maiden name. And it's a 30 inch diameter, mid-century modern globe but we traditionalized it by running a band of brass around the middle where the two half domes meet so that way it could be shipped in a smaller box it definitely won't break because we decided if we made out of glass we'd have like a 90 percent issue with breakage and then we found that if we did it in acrylic they wouldn't break ever and it would became more family friendly so she was not home when we installed the light fixture and i got a text from her like a few days after i had left town and she's like we have to we have to have talk about the light fixture i'm like oh no oh no oh no because it's hard there's these are so big they're hard to install she was freaking out she said i she knew there was that i designed a light fixture she's like brian it looks like an operating room in here and i was like i didn't know what she meant she's like it's like this white it's like this overhead bright white and it's like she's like and i realized that's right i'm so used to the 5 000 led blue sunlight kelvin that other people see and they think they're in walmart because it's like that you know it's piercing seeing.

34:42Brittany Hayes:And so it's too much, right? It's almost clinical. And so now when people come over, I usually warn them first. So the answer is the reason that I use it is because I use a lot of saturated color in my house. And when I do 3 ,000 or 2 ,600, 2 ,800 Kelvin, if I have a blue, the blue looks purple. If I have the green, the green looks brown. If I use the 5 ,000 daylight Kelvin, the colors read true to their values. And that's my answer. I'm sticking to it. I know it's not

35:06Brian Patrick Flynn:for everybody and i'm sorry that is i mean i'm like an absolute not so that's absolutely not

35:13Kaitlin Johnson:same with you liz absolutely not no absolutely not and i yeah and i actually have a neighbor a couple doors down that has that throughout and then he also has he also has no shades so it just like beams straight into into our house too oh sorry about that neighbors are saying oh for sure

35:33Brittany Hayes:Yes. And my outdoor lights are all, I have my outdoor lighting collection too, and they're all 5 ,000.

35:37Brian Patrick Flynn:You know what, they can tell you that your gorgeous home is the blue white light.

35:42Brittany Hayes:My black house, but it still looks black at night because there's not a lot of, there's not a lot of, the street lights are always out.

35:47Brian Patrick Flynn:If it's black, you could just use the warm. It'll still look black. Yeah, yeah. It'll still look black. Yeah, sure. It'll still look black.

35:53Kaitlin Johnson:I'll give it to you that you want to have like those, you know, that true color experience. Yeah. But like, yeah, to your client's, you know, talking point, like it feels like an operating room. If it's all white walls and yeah.

36:09Brittany Hayes:She was right. That room actually had beige walls. But we're talking about a 30-inch diameter light fixture, which is big. Yeah, that's big. The output is like Oppenheimer. Like it is by no means subtle. But that is one of the most controversial things that I've done and I stick by it. So I have not changed those. I've been in that house for 10 years and they have stayed 5 ,000.

36:27Brian Patrick Flynn:I mean, you know, we've given a lot of advice on lighting about and color, but we've never said if you use 5000 and you use this color, we tell you to maybe it will be the same. I mean, because we're always like, don't. Your reasoning makes sense. I just am shocked because we've had so many people on the show and they're pretty much on the other end of the spectrum from you.

36:51Brittany Hayes:And the thing is, I can't argue with them because they are technically correct. We're all decorators in this room. Like, they are correct. The warmth is good. But I just, I do not, I just, I don't like, if I, if my house was mostly muddy colors, I'd be fine with it because it wouldn't, it wouldn't affect anything. But I, for example, our, our family room is blush and it looks blush at nine o 'clock at night. It looks, it looks blush at 10 o 'clock at night. If I had, if I had 3000, it would look, it would look beige. So, but I do not, for those at home listening, I do not recommend doing what I do in my own house.

37:24Brittany Hayes:It's for my own obsessive ways. You should go with warm light. Just don't listen to me.

37:31Brian Patrick Flynn:Well, it's funny because the house that you did in Oxford that we featured on our house tour series, it had some very warm tones in it. Like a lot of warmth, a lot of beige, actually. Yeah. In that one particular room. And like, you know, lots of green with yellow undertones. You had some mauve. So I'm trying to think. What color bulb did you put in that house?

37:56Brittany Hayes:Oh, you're going to kill me. So it's 5 ,000. In there too? The reason being is my client is so lovely. She went with it. So let me tell you, here's some reasoning behind this. She may have been very nice to me. She may have changed it since I've left. So this house that I did in Oxford, I don't have much experience there except for, we call them our outlaws. So my sister married into a family who is very much big and like they have a big, they have a very rooted history there in Oxford. And so I call her my cousin, but she's actually my sister's cousin, like in law. But we get along incredibly.

38:28Brittany Hayes:We have the, we have like very similar tastes. We're big movie people and music people. And when she got, she had this house, I'm like, I have to put my stamp on it because it was this really cool. It is this really cool, probably seventies or eighties cottage, which could go any direction you want because it's not rooted in any actual classicism that would have any type of vernacular input it's like hey you can do what you want here and i was going through all the different partners that i could work with to bring this house to life because where there's a limited budget there and also it's not the easiest place to get to because it's either a five-hour drive or you have to fly into memphis and then drive an hour so i was going back and forth who could i actually pull off doing a full house in oxford with and when ballard came to mind it was like okay we're going to do like a fresh take on traditional we're going to do things that are kind of a total 50 50 in the middle between feminine and masculine.

39:13Brittany Hayes:And also we wanted to have like a really early, really early 80s influence. And when I say early 80s, I was born in 76. So a lot of my memories of the early 80s would be the really high-waisted pants, the gigantic glasses, the really flowy woman's hair, the men with the really long, not long mullet hair, but just long hair. And it was like super duper like business masculine. Like men would have the tweed suits and they'd have the big glasses and the weird mustache, the porn mustache and stuff. And when we were talking about like things that I wanted to do in that house, I was like, It has this one room that kind of looks like one of those 70s or 80s sunken living rooms.

39:48Brittany Hayes:Do you know what those are? Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? There's two steps down and they're super impractical, but they're gorgeous and sexy as hell. We were like, I said, why don't we actually bring this back to like 1982, 1983 and do it in all different shades of beige? I offered up beige, but I'm like, let's do it in a way where it looks like the beige that was a huge staple in like 1982, 1983. So we did. I already had these modular sofas that were a very, very deep shade of taupe. And then we just built on that. And then when Ballard, when we decided to do the project together, you all have this really big, like almost 36 inch diameter, somewhat golden orb that looked like some.

40:24Brittany Hayes:Paloma chandelier. Yes. It's traditional, but it has the scale and the opulence of something from Studio 54. Studio 54 died in the early 80s. And I was like, okay, all these things were coming into mind. And I remember when I got in touch with you and Karen, I think when I was like, hey, this is going to be a super 80s inspired house. And I don't think most people think of Ballard Designs and think of, oh, 1982, you know, at all. But now that you've been there, you've spent time in that house with me. Wouldn't you say that there's like a very fresh, even the kitchen? Because the kitchen, I decided to let the palette in the kitchen be dictated by the colors of kitchen appliances back in the late 70s, early 80s, which would have been Harvest Gold and Avocado Green.

41:00Brittany Hayes:So we did, I don't remember what color the countertops are, the green or yellow? Green. The Avocado Green, right? The back splash was yellow. Thank you.

41:06Brian Patrick Flynn:And the floor. And yeah, you did the floor tile.

41:08Brittany Hayes:Yes, we actually did a carpeted kitchen. It's the modular floor tiles. So it made sense because there's a six-year-old who lives in the house. But the reason I'm really proud of that house, especially working out with y 'all, is I love to take things that don't go together and try to make them fit organically without looking forced. Do you, after you've spent a day and a half the house with me, do you see like an ongoing, not theme or motif, but a thread that's woven through almost all those rooms that does look slightly feminine early 80s and masculine early 80s?

41:36Brian Patrick Flynn:oh it's fabulous i've loved every single room there it definitely has a a retro vibe but not in like an obvious or like a like a way that was that yeah it feels natural performative yeah yeah

41:51Brittany Hayes:it's kind of understated right it's like if you were to see someone in like a fabulous sort of 70s inspired outfit where you're like oh that's perfect that's things best that is the best way to explain this house because especially the dining room because the dining room we also we also have a lot of natural lights we added skylights we did one that's four foot by four foot a very big skylight in the dining room because the dining room was really shaded but we went with the burlwood table from you guys and then we also yeah what is it's called the ajax jax right and then the that beautiful feminine almost scalloped chair parks is that what it's called this is a good quiz for us i know yeah and also i decided to do com with that because the silhouette is so incredible, you can drastically change the style of that chair depending on the fabric.

42:35Brittany Hayes:Right. So in my case, I really wanted a solid. I don't remember if I decided to go mustard or if I went with avocado.

42:40Brian Patrick Flynn:Or green? It's a green. Yeah, it might be velvet.

42:43Brittany Hayes:It might actually be a little bit more in the emerald world.

42:45Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah.

42:46Brittany Hayes:Right? Yeah. But that mixed with the table, totally unique. And then the coffee tables that I did in the Selken living room are definitely in the traditional world. Oh, and also there's the bar drinking. There's a table that's meant for like drinking and board games in the Selken Lounge. and that is a walnut table with brass sabots at the bottom. And then it's the slip-covered chairs that are barrel chairs. And then I have one of your skirted tables, which is right underneath one of the skylights, which is packed with plants that are thriving. And I'm really happy because I've never used beige.

43:15Brittany Hayes:Like I told you, I just did the lake house. I'd never really gone back to the early 80s. And I feel like that house was a really interesting juxtaposition of retro and new.

43:23Brian Patrick Flynn:It fits her having met your client and cousin-in-law, what you said? Yeah, cousin along? Outlaw.

43:30Brittany Hayes:Cousin outlaw. Outlaw. Okay, sure. I'll figure it out. It fits her, like, personal style. Definitely.

43:40Brian Patrick Flynn:And what I met of her, her personality. Like, she's cool. She has very cool style. And so, like, for someone else, maybe it would feel...

43:52Brittany Hayes:Ill-fitting?

43:53Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah, but, like, for her, I was like, oh, this makes no sense. She's cool.

43:56Brittany Hayes:And there's always vinyl albums playing. So like it really, really fits the style. And it's Oxford, Mississippi, which is very traditional. I mean, it's a straight up South, but it is like, I think it's a liberal arts college. So you end up having a lot of culture there because the young people really make it their own. And I'm really, really proud of that project because I just, I had never seen myself doing something in Mississippi, especially because I'm away all the time. I'm usually not in small Southern towns. So it was, after doing these bigger city ones, it was a, I had no idea that there were so many people that lived there.

44:26Brian Patrick Flynn:You do, between that and the Atlanta house we were talking about earlier, you really should do more, I feel, traditional pieces.

44:35Brittany Hayes:I think it might be, I'm turning 50 next year, I think that might be it. I think I'm starting to understand how people's taste evolves as they get older. I will always be a mid-century modernist at heart, but I'm beginning to understand why people stick with traditional style silhouettes. Because they never go out of style and you can pass them down over years. And if you don't want it to be stuffy or boring or cliche, you throw in your own thing. And I think putting more traditional style furniture into my mid-century modern house, I think what makes a designer.

45:02Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah, there were some pieces that you used in that house in Oxford that like the sofa with the pleated skirt or the dining table, the round dining table that you used with the skirted chairs are more traditional, but they kind of ground everything else to be more playful.

45:21Kaitlin Johnson:Yeah.

45:21Brittany Hayes:I also thought it made it less one note. Yeah. Because if you had something that's supposed to go kind of retro 70s, early 80s, then you add something super traditional. Think about a lot of the sets. I take a lot of my inspiration from Three's Company. And Three's Company, the set of that was super beige. I had this huge, like, iconic butterfly from Life magazine. It was this frame thing that said Life, and it's a butterfly. And everything was wicker, and there's a lot of plants. And that style brings me back to sitting on the floor, 1982, 83, 84, as a little boy. You watch TV when it was live.

45:50Brittany Hayes:There was, like, four channels. if I wanted to watch TV it was what my parents were watching and I'm looking back to those houses that always were modern at the time but they had traditional furniture and I think that's what made it what makes a set feel more like a true home if everything is the same style I kind of feel like you're selling a set a furniture versus creating a living set that's supposed to feel like a real home yeah

46:13Brian Patrick Flynn:and it loses its it just feels like a stamped part of time yeah

46:18Brittany Hayes:it doesn't age well

46:19Brian Patrick Flynn:yeah like if you have different things from each sort of era, you can't tell, you can't exactly like denote what era it was decorated. You know what I'm saying? Like if you've got like traditional and modern pieces. And why we're all into it because you can take something you got from your grandmother. You can go buy something new to mix with it and you've got, again, this very livable space that continues to grow.

46:43Brittany Hayes:Have you all seen, so speaking of spaces, so what's really different about my world for most people is the production side. So I'm always designing things that actually I know will read well under different types of lighting, things that will tell a story of the person who lives there. And in the case of HGTV, something that will have mass appeal for all different types of taste levels. But in my career now, like 20 to 25 years, there are like two massive sets. One of them has been a directive that I've used for my career at HGTV. And it's this remarkably popular set from Nancy Meyers. So any Nancy Meyers film is going to have a huge cult following of people who love decorating.

47:16Brittany Hayes:And it is called Something's Gotta Give. It's with Jack Nicholson and Diane Keaton. And it is like one of the most beloved sets in modern cinema. And it is so simple. And I think it is because it's a mix of all these traditional things. And it is super unfancy. It looks like somebody lives there. The character that Erica Berry, who's an author played by Diane Keaton, is this remarkably intellectual New Yorker, I think. And you look at the furniture like, oh, this is like a smart and classy person who's well educated, like lives here. And like, it's a comfortable place where you can run around without your shoes on.

47:44Brittany Hayes:You can have a glass of wine. And so one of them for my career has been with the people who love the set of something's got to give want to live here. And that's how a lot of times I've designed HGTV Dream Homes. And it's worked because I thought I was doing one and I did 11 of them. And then the proof, the metrics right there might be pretty strong in my favor. But the other thing is there was a movie that came out like in 2010. And it's this incredible film. It's, do you know that the fashion designer Tom Ford, he directed a movie. I think it's called A Simple Man. A Single Man. It's starring Colin Firth and Julianne Moore.

48:24Brittany Hayes:Julianne Moore, she plays a character named Charlie. And it is another one of the most beloved sets because it straight up is a Ballard design home set in the 60s. You guys don't even know this probably, but it is so straight up Ballard silhouettes throughout the entire house. It's in Hollywood. It's like a beautiful Hollywood Hills house. It's super feminine. she's a single woman. They're like best friends. And she, I believe she has a British accent. Every room is totally badass rock and roll. But what's mind blowing is it's not. It's like, it's straight up traditional. There's a lot of blush, a lot of neutrals, but the way the rooms are put together, every like woman and man was like, I want to live there.

49:01Brittany Hayes:Like that house is badass, it's rock and roll, but it's traditional. And I think there is something about when you mix the traditional with something unexpected, whether it's a piece of art or it's a light fixture that's a little bit more 70s or a little bit more sculpture or even mid-century or Scandinavian, I think that is what captures, I think, the millennial and possibly the Gen S audience. As far as Gen Alpha and Gen Z, I have no idea what the hell they like.

49:26Brian Patrick Flynn:Do you?

49:27Brittany Hayes:What is Gen Z like for interiors? What do they like?

49:30Brian Patrick Flynn:Well, I feel like there's a lot of the grand millennial thing, which I guess maybe you could argue is millennial, but I feel like it's also skews younger than that. But then also the Nancy Meyers thing. Yeah, I feel like that's still...

49:41Brittany Hayes:Relevant, right?

49:42Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah. But maybe that's just my algorithm. Speaking of Nancy Meyers, I rewatched with my... My husband was out of town, so I watched The Parent Trap, the Nancy Meyers Parent Trap, with my girls this weekend. And those houses... I was honestly thinking about it, the whole movie. Those houses also are... Which one is that, the Lindsay Lohan one? The Lindsay Lohan one. There's the Napa house, and then Natasha Richardson's London Townhouse. Both of those are gorgeous. That's a fun one to watch after you have kids. So I watched that like last year and I was like, oh, really? You just like had these two twins.

50:18Brian Patrick Flynn:We're like, you know what? You take that one. I'm never going to see that daughter again.

50:22Brittany Hayes:I've never seen it.

50:23Brian Patrick Flynn:I know. Oh, my gosh. So on your to-do is watch it as a parent now and be like, yeah, that makes sense. And then they're both very wealthy, independently wealthy. She's this designer. And he owns this vineyard. And you're like, oh, and you both were wealthy. They both have full-time help. Yeah, yeah. I know. But watch. I pulled it apart. Watch for the set, Taryn. Okay, sorry, sorry. But the set was fantastic. But both of the homes are like. Oh, yeah. I would move in right now. Yeah. You know what I mean?

50:51Brittany Hayes:Well, I'm excited about this because I have a friend who I think actually is in that, like an actress friend who's in that movie. Yeah. But there's another movie. So as far as I understand, so Nancy Meyers did, this is The Parent Trap, right? Yeah. which is not the same as Freaky Friday. That's not Nancy Meyer. Totally different. I've not seen, so I was planning to last week going to see Freakier Friday on my own and before I was going to watch Freaky Friday first because I haven't seen it. But the Paratrap is the other one I hadn't seen yet. But listening to you guys talk about it might be a good thing to watch with Clever when she's three or four.

51:16Yeah.

51:17Brittany Hayes:Right? It's like fun.

51:18Brian Patrick Flynn:Oh, it is a fun one. It's a cute, yeah. Especially for girls.

51:21Brittany Hayes:It's twins, right? Yeah, it's very, yes.

51:24Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah, it's cute. You can watch it in a few years. But she does always have great sets. it's um they're like a mix of like approachable and familiar you know what i mean definitely and

51:36Brittany Hayes:they're not but they'd also they there's something that's highbrow about them that's in a way where it's not uh it's not like done for show you know it's not like dropping like a a birkin into a room to prove your status yeah you know i think that's how she designed like

51:50Brian Patrick Flynn:those that set the something's got to give set is and has been like the pinnacle for like 15 years

51:58Brittany Hayes:Nuts, right?

51:59Brian Patrick Flynn:Like, yeah. It's crazy.

52:01Brittany Hayes:It was a 2003 movie. I was still in college when that came out. 20 years, 22 years. Yeah, almost 25 years. And I remember it's still, and it's all different generations that love that set. And then the other one is, there's another movie that came out a few years later by Nancy Meyers called It's Complicated with Alec Baldwin and Meryl Streep. It's funny because those two movies were shot in the opposite places in which they portray. So I believe in Something's Gotta Give. I think she's supposed to be living in the Hamptons, but that house is actually shot in Santa Barbara. And then conversely, But conversely, I think that they actually shot in the Hamptons for Meryl Streep's house, which is supposed to be in Santa Barbara, which is interesting.

52:35Brittany Hayes:That's why I love production design, because it is nuts. I don't know how we're pulling this stuff off, but with the right camera angles and the proper establishing shots, you could fake anything.

52:42Brian Patrick Flynn:Would you ever go into, like, set design for a feature film?

52:46Brittany Hayes:I don't think so anymore, because now that I'm a dad and I have a little one, those super long days that I loved and was so enthralled by it. To me, the idea of missing a milestone, in a former life, I absolutely keep going and going to film production, but it's a remarkably hard, it's a very hostile environment because those are long days with 300, 400 people on set, the insurance is through the roof, everybody's super stressed out. And now I've had this incredible 16-year run with HGTV, which has been incredible. And I'm walking away with so many good memories and I don't know how I got so lucky in a previous life because most people after 16 years in a place would just be like, I never want to see people again.

53:27Brittany Hayes:This has been the worst. But I have, I've had like a really good run and I've made some really good friends along the way. And it has been so collaborative. And I think one of the reasons being is you have to have really thick skin when you're designing something that's going to be seen by tens of millions of people who are going to scrutinize everything. So what I've always done is I've, once we go live in December every year with HGTV Dream Home, I usually, I try to uninstall Instagram for, until like maybe Christmas or so. Or I have two phones. I have a regular phone and a content phone that's specifically used to capture like content with cinematics.

53:59Brittany Hayes:I love the cinematic feature on video. And I never post my, I never post social media in real time. I never want it to affect my actual socialization. So if we were hanging out together, all of us for drinks, I might take out my content phone like before I'm gonna go to the bathroom and find a really cool establishing shot of us all having drinks when you don't know I'm watching you and get some beautiful black and white of you guys sharing drinks. And then I have like something later that I could put into a reel or post it just seems real it seems more it seems more it seems more like documentarian style so I think I got really lucky where I had I got to do what I went to school for and work as a production designer but more on the interior design relatable level I would say my least favorite part of my job was people's opinion yeah I believe it's You can please some people all the time or all the people.

54:50Brittany Hayes:Like that's the same amount of time. Yeah. Yeah. And it made my life easier because I was like, okay, there's no way you're going to hit 100%. There's no way.

54:57Brian Patrick Flynn:Unless you're Nancy Meyers, apparently.

54:58Brittany Hayes:Unless you're Nancy Meyers. Then you get a hall pass.

55:01Brian Patrick Flynn:Or first set designer, I suppose. Whatever that is. Why have they not come forward?

55:04Brittany Hayes:I don't know. I want to know.

55:05Brian Patrick Flynn:Okay. Sorry. What? Wait. Wait, so what are some things that you might design for a set that would surprise people? Or things about a set that maybe would surprise people?

55:20Brittany Hayes:In true film, so if I was doing an actual commercial, not HGTV Dream Home, because HGTV Dream Home is so specific because somebody actually wins it. So every single thing that's in the house is photographed exactly as it's going to be. And every single thing that's in the house is part of the prize package. So nothing can be moved or changed. but when you were shooting a commercial and you have a scene that involves a character or multiple people or actors and a pet you usually, I know this sounds really insane, sometimes you will have different modifications of the same piece of furniture which means in a wide shot if you've got two people sitting having a conversation on a three seater sofa, it might be the actual size you would have in real life it might be say a 96 inch to 110 inch sofa, but when you change to a tighter shot And you have a new focal length.

56:10Brittany Hayes:Focal length on your lens.

56:12Kaitlin Johnson:Your call has been forwarded to voicemail. Hi, this is Zoe Deutsch.

56:18Brittany Hayes:And Nick Robinson. Our brand new movie, Voicemails for Isabel, is all about those little moments that feel like the universe is looking out.

56:24Kaitlin Johnson:Feeling homesick. Then your sister calls.

56:27Brittany Hayes:Hearing that perfect song exactly when you need it.

56:34Brittany Hayes:Sometimes life rigs things in our favor. like learning about your new favorite rom-com voicemails for Isabel. Now playing only on Netflix. Those people might appear way too far apart in a closer shot sitting on the sofa in the same because you have to have continuity. So they might be in real life. The gap that you have between you might is great. But when it's time to do the close-up, there's sometimes a set dresser with two other versions of that sofa, much smaller. So you guys get up, the other one comes in, the next closer up shot comes in and you seem less wide less far apart from one another so this is stuff nobody would i could talk about this for hours because this is my job like and so you have to like have back because the worst thing about working as a production designer is when the camera rolls everything has got to be there there's no resetting everything has to be in place because every minute is thousands of dollars so you have to have a backup plan for every backup plan and you have to know you have to have a bunch of extra fabric for anything that's on set like Hollis works in wardrobe.

57:31Brittany Hayes:He probably has to like have 10 of the same jacket or 10 of the same shoe because if something is needed for a scene and it has a little bit of a mark on it, you're holding up camera. You cannot hold up camera. So my job is to make sure the cameras are always rolling and everything that's on that set has got to be correct for that particular scene.

57:45Brian Patrick Flynn:So you might have several different versions of the same couch.

57:47Brittany Hayes:It's very likely. And also same with possible dining tables. And it's more about the scale. So it has to do with like, how are these people going to fit on this? Or you might do one that's extra deep if it's a scene where there's intimacy. So if there's a scene and there's intimacy and people are not necessarily upright having a conversation and they're moving around. It has to be wide enough to hold their bodies. Otherwise, you're doing choreography with these actors who are now like having an arm over the side of a sofa that make no sense. This is so nerdy, but I love talking about this stuff.

58:13Brian Patrick Flynn:No, it's interesting. So what if it's like a fixed set, like the Friends set or like a set where you're like always shooting in the same space? Like they have different versions of that same sofa. Everyone sits on an office.

58:29Brittany Hayes:I think I was I think the back in the 90s. So that came out in 90, 90, like a sick. Yeah. So when I believe that in a traditional sitcom art department, you would probably have these gigantic rows behind the scenes that nobody would see of extras, because if all of a sudden like an actor accidentally knocks over that Tiffany lamp, yeah, there's continuity. You can't go to the next scene if that lamp is broken. You have to you have to has to become part of the plot line if it's broken so usually there are multiples of almost everything on that set um but a lot of times if it's an antique you can't there's only one and that way it's documented like crazy there are polaroids on polaroids of that thing from every angle how exactly where it should be placed on the table like there's this movie in the 90s called misery with kathy bay she won the oscar for and it had to do with there was a little tiny penguin figure and she knew that the author played by james khan who she was torturing um she knew that he got up and tried to escape because she was a perfectionist and she knew that the penguin's beak was supposed to be like facing west, but it was facing north or something.

59:29Brittany Hayes:But that's your job. And there's a job called continuity. And your job is 100 % to have these huge folders where it's just pull right after pull right of, okay, this is this way, counterclockwise, that page of that magazine is open on that table for this scene, but on that scene, it's closed. That's somebody's job.

59:44Brian Patrick Flynn:I would be terrible.

59:45Brittany Hayes:It's also terrifying. You get it wrong that you have to redo the scene that costs thousands of Yeah.

59:50Brian Patrick Flynn:But I mean.

59:52Brittany Hayes:Friends definitely had to have, they had to have multiples of those things because those were very specific.

59:57Brian Patrick Flynn:But do people really notice? No, apparently we don't.

1:00:01Brittany Hayes:We don't notice. People in production would notice. Directors notice that there's a keen eye. Yeah. Someone's going to.

1:00:06Brian Patrick Flynn:But everyday people. I don't know. I feel like everyday people would. Yeah, yeah.

1:00:10Brittany Hayes:No, they wouldn't. And also it's the amount of precision that goes into making a set feel like a real home, even just with stains in certain places or even in the TV show Roseanne, they had this knitted, like a very classic knitted, like, Afghan. Yes. On the back. Yes. On the side. Brown, yellows and reds or something.

1:00:29Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah. And it's familiar. I can, I can picture it without even.

1:00:32Brittany Hayes:Right. And it's a character because just similar to the, the Victorian frame that's on the people. Oh my God.

1:00:36Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah. Yeah.

1:00:37Brittany Hayes:Those little things are like, that's a character. You had no idea you were watching 10 seasons of a show where that is a character. It's like one of the, you recognize it. Actually, the first season of Friends, one of the most fascinating things about it the original set designer had this post because it was a loft and right if you ever watch season one there's like 10 episodes where you're like where did that beam come from there's a beam right in the middle of where people are usually standing and it's gone forever from the other seasons but they realized that beam when you open the front door it was causing weird shadows to happen in production and also it was a place where the characters would gather and from different angles of cameras you had a beam in the way of joey so if you go look you can even google it you'll See, there's a famous beam in production.

1:01:15Brittany Hayes:We all know about it. We know all about it. The beam. The beam. Yeah, and then Lucy and Ricky, Lucy and Ricky, Lucy, Lucy and Ricky Ball. I love Lucy. But no, Lucy and Ricky, his real name was Desi Arnaz. Yes. Yeah. They created the two-camera format for sitcom. They were like the masterminds behind the whole technical art of creating a sitcom. I love this stuff.

1:01:35Brian Patrick Flynn:I didn't. I love that. I know there's a whole movie about it.

1:01:37Brittany Hayes:It's called Meeting the Ricardos or Being the Ricardos. It's from Nicole Kidman and Javier Brennan. Oh.

1:01:42Kaitlin Johnson:But you know what? just like regular like just everyday good design though that thoughtfulness is the reason why we don't notice it that's right because good design just plays a really fantastic backdrop yeah and

1:01:55Brittany Hayes:effortlessness comes with experience yeah and that's why i think like when i was when i was brand new and starting out i used a lot of color and a lot of pattern that was over the top at the time it still is now but i felt like i had something to prove back then and now the new beige version of 49 year old me kind of get it like there's certain there's certain things that are going to stand the test of time and 30 year old me had a lot more to say and i still i'm still proud of that work that i did as a self-taught designer back in the in the early 2010s uh but a lot of those things i would never do today i also had limited knowledge limited limited access to materials and limited access to artisans back then now i can have everything made similar like you all do you know people to make things and upholster things and all that yeah so you mentioned

1:02:34Brian Patrick Flynn:before that a lot of your design choices for the dream home were driven by SEO and were like things that the teams kind of suggested like this would be something people are interested in like can you work that in was there anything that you were ever like I hate this I do not want to use this

1:02:54Brittany Hayes:but like I must um it's actually it's converse it's the other way around so when I did one of the first houses that I did was in Asheville. And the idea was to do something that was like a modern take on folk because it was West Asheville. Almost every neighbor around the house had their own chickens. So it was a very farm to table area and people were very into folk art. And I always wanted to make the houses fit the vernacular. So most of the styling for the rooms was done. I went to these, not flea markets, but they were, what's the other word? An antique mall. And there's a famous one in it.

1:03:24Brittany Hayes:I forgot what it's called. It's like, it's some type of man's name.

1:03:27Brian Patrick Flynn:It's like a giant red barn.

1:03:29Brittany Hayes:It's a giant red barn. It's, it's, it's amazing. Oh, it's incredible. And it's famous. And I went there and I accessorized the majority of the house with worn, somewhat farm inspired things that they were by no means fancy. They just felt like down home old school. When I got the data back from the marketing department, they're like, Hey, so we have these pages. People did not know. People did not like all the accessories. They thought there was too many things and I always will listen I always listen to the data because it doesn't lie so I couldn't really get upset about it so to answer your question I had to take that narrative and realize wow people want more minimal styling so then it became more about like a stack of books and fresh floral and that kind of raided through the roof so um that would be it's kind of the converse of what you asked but I would say if there's anything that was given to me that I hated that I had not on HGTV Dream Home but I used to work on when I was younger in my 20s I used to work on a makeover show because I started I went to film school and then I became a news producer and while I was working in news production I got laid off right around 9 11 and into like actual 9 11 because people were just not working and I got lucky and I started working for the production company that was about to start shooting season two of trading spaces and I needed a producer who understood interior design I happened to knock on the door because I was looking for work and I was going to move back in with my parents at 26 so I'm like I'm not going to do a cubicle farm job.

1:04:50Brittany Hayes:I've got to work either in news or like truly working in this interior design world. It's because the only thing that I love, my parents were like, fine. So I moved back in with them as a grown ass adult. And it turns out the production company I went to, they're like, listen, so we were already staffed up, but we had this new show, this Discovery Channel show that became the rival of Training Spaces. It was called Surprised by Design. And they hired me because they saw that I knew how to strip and refinish furniture. And I also could write a script and direct a scene. We had, so that got me my job working for the Discovery channel and then what's really interesting is the discovery channel discovery merged with hgt back in 2017 so i've legitimately worked the discovery channel my entire career if i think about it but but i had a little bit of a break where i worked here at turner studios for tbs and there was a makeover show called dinner movie that had a spinoff sister show called movie and a makeover and i started as a producer on that because i had the experience working on these makeover shows so i was a director behind the scenes for anything that had to do with home transformation and my job would be to make sure that we made a schedule and we had all the right artisans to do the work there was this one sponsored episode where it was it was sponsored by a retailer that i don't think is even in i don't think this retailer is even around anymore but they had a very specific zebra print and coral and terracotta and pink and aqua coverlet set that they were pushing for like back to school or something.

1:06:15Brittany Hayes:And I had to design the entire room around this absolutely hideous thing. And, um, I, it was my job. My job was to make this thing look good. And by no, I, I, it was so I did, I don't know how I did it. I did the whole room. I did like this monochromatic thing, or it was just blush on blush on blush on blush. I try to minimize all the zebra and stuff. And I remember being so mad at my executive booster, who's still like a lifelong friend or family to me. And she was like, listen, no, the spot, the sponsors are who are paying for this so this is this is the piece they're paying for so design a room that was that was back i think 2008 and uh surprisingly enough there are no professional portfolio

1:06:51Brian Patrick Flynn:images of that room in my do you have photos anywhere i absolutely do and that will be burned

1:06:57Brittany Hayes:very soon what an idiot i was i was so new back then i kept photographing my houses at night you don't shoot in tears at night use all natural daylight with everything on a long exposure but I learned so much about photography from those mistakes that I made. But the client or the brand was really happy. And the homeowner loved it because her daughter, it was beautiful. Otherwise, everything else in that room was custom. But yeah, that one time I had to use that, I had to reverse design something around the most hideous coverlet in history. And none of it was natural materials. I mean, it was probably flammable at the time.

1:07:33Brian Patrick Flynn:That's amazing. That was a good one. okay before last thing before we go um we talked off camera about doing an in versus out little segment so let's wrap up with that i know you don't have opinions that's why we want to ask

1:07:48Brittany Hayes:you i have a very controversial one that's going to piss a lot of people off so you can't get mad at me and i'm doing i'm doing fine print here okay we're going to start it with this i love when things are popular because i love pop culture and i love when something becomes a huge part of like the narrative socially and like it timestamps something like you know like for example like like the sets of tv shows we're talking about right now or a very popular look i don't know if you remember like in the there was this very popular thing in the late 90s where girls had a necklace that had bubbles on it like you guys you blow did you have that it was a trend it was a little thing with an actual bubble and you can it had a little bubbles maker and you can unscrew it

1:08:26Kaitlin Johnson:and blow bubbles and it's just going to raves like no i think this is like rave rave jewelry Children. This was popular because it's the opposite.

1:08:33Brittany Hayes:It was popular because of a 90s sitcom called Blossom. You remember Blossom? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She made it popular. She had a big hat with a sunflower. The sunflowers were a thing. So all that to say, I have tried this big new trend. What are we talking? We're saying we like it. In versus out. Okay. I'm not in with this. I'm out with it. And I've tried it firsthand because I wanted to see what all the rage was about. And I am by no means telling people they're tailed for liking it. But I've tried it. And I do not understand people's obsession with it. And it's pickleball. and i would say half of my social world loves it and i tried i tried actually tried it in north carolina two months ago and i actually enjoyed it i enjoyed the social around it because the way the things these things are built is you can have 10 courts and they usually have nearby's incredible food or there's also a place to have a drink in between but i did not understand i didn't think it was that different than playing tennis so i guess my thing is i don't understand why people have taken on to pickleball so much more than tennis.

1:09:29Brittany Hayes:Does any of you understand or do you play?

1:09:32Brian Patrick Flynn:I don't play pickleball or tennis, so I can't try.

1:09:34Brittany Hayes:So none of you really have a strong reaction?

1:09:36Brian Patrick Flynn:No. So only listeners are yelling at you that we can't hear.

1:09:39Brittany Hayes:Okay, that's fair. And plus, that's fine with me because like I said, I tried it and it didn't seem that different. I also am six foot five, so I have a really big wingspan. So if I'm going to do anything that involves a racket and a ball, I'm going to have an advantage because I take up so much time. Yeah, I imagine you would win.

1:09:53Kaitlin Johnson:That shorter. Yeah.

1:09:55Brittany Hayes:So I did not understand the difference between that and tennis.

1:09:57Brian Patrick Flynn:Were you just as good?

1:09:59Brittany Hayes:I was just as bad. Just as bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't like team sports. I like sports where I can not have anybody else to play with. So I like, yeah.

1:10:08Brian Patrick Flynn:How do you feel about Mahjong? There's another one.

1:10:10Brittany Hayes:I would really fail at that. I like lifting weights. I like running sometimes.

1:10:15Brian Patrick Flynn:This is going in a very... Yeah. I was thinking in versus out, and I was going to name design trends. And you told me... Listen, in versus out can work with anything. You said trend. That's true. I didn't specify design.

1:10:26Brittany Hayes:I will tell you my least favorite design trend in history.

1:10:29Brian Patrick Flynn:Wait, can I give you my list? Absolutely. I love everything about this. Yeah, we'll end with that. Okay, go for it. I'm going to have a couple written down, and then y 'all throw in whichever one. Okay. Okay, beige.

1:10:44Brittany Hayes:In, but fine print, because it depends on how it's used. If you use something in the khaki world, I'm all in on it.

1:10:48Brian Patrick Flynn:Okay. What about pleated lampshades?

1:10:51Brittany Hayes:In.

1:10:52Brian Patrick Flynn:In, okay.

1:10:53Brittany Hayes:Mm-hmm.

1:10:54Brian Patrick Flynn:Color drenching.

1:10:56Brittany Hayes:And I'm always a fan. Yeah, I actually prefer, I say with color drenching, if you don't have interesting trim and you don't have interesting doors and you don't have an interesting ceiling detail, color drenching is an amazing thing to let those not so interesting things fade away. Conversely, if you're in a historic house with the sickest trim and the sickest medallions and you do the color drenching, but you change the finish, it's the most incredible way to highlight something. So I do think I'm a huge fan of it. Yeah, he's in.

1:11:23Brian Patrick Flynn:Okay. What about white kitchens?

1:11:26Brittany Hayes:Oh, no. I have one. And I'm remodeling. So I'm going to say out.

1:11:31Brian Patrick Flynn:Okay, nice. I'm just, for the record, naming things that are like popular and have been popular. It's not like setting judgment on it.

1:11:39Brittany Hayes:No, no, I love this. I think we are not going to get in trouble with anybody because we're just talking about trends that are out there.

1:11:43Brian Patrick Flynn:It's more like what is coming and what is out there. You know what I mean? Yes. Okay, blue and white.

1:11:49Brittany Hayes:In.

1:11:50Brian Patrick Flynn:Always.

1:11:50Brittany Hayes:Always, yeah.

1:11:51Brian Patrick Flynn:Okay. what about mauve oh that's a tricky one oh it is it is by far one of the most used colors in my

1:12:02Brittany Hayes:history of my career which is bizarre because it's so easy yes it mauve is one of mauve and purple but when i first started doing houses i don't know what i did right um yes i'm gonna say in i think i think it's it's an unexpected neutral that kind of it kind of goes with almost every other color when it's used in moderation i think the most muted shades of mauve kind of fall almost almost lavender adjacent and they're also they can also be gender neutral so i'm gonna say in on that

1:12:27Kaitlin Johnson:okay what about i think saying the word mauve is not i think she's right liz just nailed it we need to rebrand it i think it does need a rebranding it needs a new word lavender shades shades of

1:12:37Brian Patrick Flynn:lavender i feel like a lipstick it's like a lipstick color yeah it doesn't it's i don't know

1:12:42Brittany Hayes:yeah yeah you're kind of right i can see mauve being a very popular like kylie jenner brand of lipstick.

1:12:46Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah.

1:12:47Brittany Hayes:A mauve colored lipstick. Yeah, it's like a nude.

1:12:51Brian Patrick Flynn:I don't know. Yeah. Okay. This is really big in Atlanta. White houses with black trim.

1:12:55Brittany Hayes:Okay. So I understand why they're here. Like I do. And I think they're going to age really well. But there are so many. Like in my neighborhood alone, which in my neighborhood is mostly mid-century modern houses or new builds where there would be a mid-century that was built that wasn't really done well. It was more like thrown up and they level it and they build a new build and all the new builds are the white farm housey one with the black the black windows and the reason that i'm going to say out is because they become time stamped i think like a lot of the classic architects here in buckhead who have been doing those for 50 60 years do it in a way where it could be a hundred year old house but there's a very specific look between like 2017 and 2024 that might do you it's kind of what you're talking about does that sound right yeah i think i think it depends on the architecture but i think the majority of them look like they were built in the last seven eight years well i ask you because

1:13:47Brian Patrick Flynn:you have a black house and so i wasn't sure like what your thoughts on that would be that's why

1:13:52Brittany Hayes:i am a fan of black and white together i've actually i did one all white house i did a scandinavian farmhouse for hdv urban oasis in 2019 and this was in the capital of minnesota is minneapolis i don't know why that just that just escaped me but it was an all this had to be by jury so that h-e-t-v had to weigh in i was either going to do it a cod blood red i had to do i wanted to do colors that were legit to architecture in scandinavia so cod blood red was how a lot of the fisher people would they would paint their fishing cabins because that's all they had access to was the blood from the cod and it had enough pigment in it where it would turn red so i i pitched

1:14:28Brian Patrick Flynn:that black not very romantic at all what about that super popular benjamin moore color called

1:14:34Brittany Hayes:dead salmon. Have you heard about this? It's like the most popular blush out there. And also when I used to work at HGTV, the connecting street that we're bringing to the headquarters was called Dead Horse Lane. And I'm like, y 'all, this is some morbid directioners. But my answer was I had done an all-white Scandinavian farmhouse with black trim that really looked like it had been preserved over time. So I think there's a trick to it. But right now I'm going to say out because there's just too much of it.

1:15:01Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah. What about scallops? This is my last one.

1:15:05Brittany Hayes:And I think that there's a playfulness with scallops and especially as a girl dad that they just fit everything, whether it's a pillow or it's even architecture. There's a little bit of fun. It could even go masculine if you go with a darker color.

1:15:15Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah.

1:15:16Brittany Hayes:I think that right now it's kind of all over the place, but I think it is here to stay. It's always been here. I just think it's made it more as the mainstream lately, but I think I say it's in.

1:15:25Brian Patrick Flynn:Any other?

1:15:27Kaitlin Johnson:Those are really good. No, I'm waiting to hear.

1:15:30Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah, what's your, what did you say? Your one that you hate? Your number one hated for always. Yeah. Now he's not going to remember. I told you, Kelly. My gosh, it's so specific.

1:15:40Brittany Hayes:Okay, so I might be aging myself, but there was this huge thing between 2002 and 2010 where people thought, so to answer you, my least favorite thing in interior design is sticks in a vase shoved in a corner. And what I mean by that is there was this very popular time, like I said, 2002 to 2010, where almost every millennial or Gen Xer who had bought their first house had this very specific, this major retailer had these sticks that you could go buy. They're like five feet tall and they would stick them into this very specific vase and stick them in corners of rooms. Similar to the trend of bamboo being everywhere, like bamboo, like actual bamboo, lucky bamboo.

1:16:22Brittany Hayes:Remember, like the cut bamboo.

1:16:23Brian Patrick Flynn:I feel like that was very trading spaces.

1:16:25Brittany Hayes:It was that era. Yeah, it was 2002 to 2010-ish. And every time I go to somebody's house, they were hiring me. They'd have those damn sticks and that damn vase. And the vase came in three colors, like mauve, pink, or blue. And I would be like, they all have it to the point where it's like a cult. And then it vanished. Like, I don't know, like after 2011 or so, it started to go away. And that's a very, very passionate response because I encountered many sticks in a vase shoved in a corner in my lifetime.

1:16:54Brian Patrick Flynn:I feel like that turned into the 2010s fiddle leaf fig.

1:16:57Brittany Hayes:Oh, nailed it. Which now has been replaced with the olive tree, but the faux version, because the olive tree only thrives in Mediterranean environments. But now there's a new one that is an Indian version of the tree. Do you know what it's called? It has this beautiful, this gigantic leaf, but it's perfectly leaf shaped like that, like symmetrical versus a fiddle leaf, which is kind of asymmetrical. And it has now become... Like ficus? it is some type of ficus but it is it is i think the word indian or india is in it and it's beautiful i used it once they're not they're not they're not the most affordable they're gorgeous but i think that the fiddle leaf has now been replaced yeah i i i i have them in my house still i still have they actually i do like planting them outside as well fiddle leaf figs but they did get kind of out of control right well they were just in like every photo shoot it was clearly

1:17:42Brian Patrick Flynn:like a like a oh and we oh we did it too oh for sure it was very i still have them in my yeah Right?

1:17:49Kaitlin Johnson:Yeah, I do too.

1:17:50Brian Patrick Flynn:Well, yeah. I finally was able to keep mine alive. Once you keep it alive, now you're stuck with him. Yeah.

1:17:55Brittany Hayes:I love that all four of us have experience with the fiddle leaf fig tree because it was, I think it was one of those trends that it had a point. Like it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful like sculptural plant that we all thought we could keep alive and found out quickly we can't. But some people like who kept them alive, those things get huge. Like, I mean, fucking 13 feet. They add so much height to a corner.

1:18:15Brian Patrick Flynn:Yes. And mass. Or you could, maybe the stick feast will come back. And they're the perfect green. So we hope not. They're a really good green shade. Okay. You know, don't you think? Yeah, I agree.

1:18:24Brittany Hayes:They add a lot of life. I think that's why we all like them. What are our thoughts on, I have one last question. It's another very trendy thing. What are your thoughts on the super popularity of the Italian modernism thing that's been like taken over Pinterest over the past like six or seven years, that very, almost everything, there's a lot of scallops, there's a lot of like bald tops on chairs, like B-A-L-L-E-D, like bald shapes. Like everything's kind of like the rounded trend.

1:18:58Brian Patrick Flynn:Oh, like the, it's kind of 80s?

1:19:00Brittany Hayes:Yes, but I think a lot of it was taken from Italian modernism, which usually has a lot of curves. So like super sculptural pieces. Bulbous is the perfect word. What are your thoughts? Do you think it's time-sake?

1:19:09Brian Patrick Flynn:How do you feel about bulbous?

1:19:10Brittany Hayes:I hate that word.

1:19:11Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah, I think this will be like, almost there's this like 80s, like that Memphis movement. Yeah. Like this is like almost a node to it, but Italian maybe. Yeah, it's going to definitely. The rounded furniture is 100 % going to be timestamped.

1:19:25Brittany Hayes:Yeah, 100%. What a bummer. I agree with you. I love it so much. Oh, we can all still love it right now. But it's going to look very 20-20. Yes.

1:19:31Brian Patrick Flynn:In 30 years, you're going to try to hand yours down to somebody and be like, mm-hmm, thank you.

1:19:34Brittany Hayes:I know. Okay.

1:19:35Brian Patrick Flynn:There are a few designers who I feel like can do it really well. Like Nicola Harding uses pieces like that.

1:19:44Kaitlin Johnson:And she's a British designer and everything is like super layered and feels very traditional. But then she'll throw in something very sculptural and minimal and, yeah, Italian kind of bulbous shapes and weird geometric things that you just don't know how to make work otherwise. Unless it's in a loft and sitting there by itself and it is a sculptural piece. but she's able to throw these things in there and it works it works because there's such a huge heavy juxtaposition of these two styles of english country cottage plus modern yeah so it's it's i agree it's really hard there's folks that can pull it off yeah there are folks but we did our

1:20:30Brittany Hayes:own version of it in the oxford house there is there is some 80s going on there but there's not a lot of rounded furniture except actually the the chairs are better barrel chairs but i'm with I think that when you take six pieces of furniture like that and you put them in an empty loft, it looks complete. Like those six pieces, the minimalism works. But then when you try to put it into a room with kids and dogs, it doesn't really play nicely with others.

1:20:50Kaitlin Johnson:It's definitely a varsity move and don't try it at home.

1:20:53Brittany Hayes:I agree with you. I totally agree with you on all this.

1:20:56Kaitlin Johnson:Yeah.

1:20:57Brian Patrick Flynn:Professionals have to. Brian Patrick Flynn, thank you so much. This is a delight. I know. This was really fun.

1:21:02Brittany Hayes:I cannot wait to see what this gets edited down into because we went on so many tangents.

1:21:07Brian Patrick Flynn:Jokes on you. We don't edit.

1:21:10Brittany Hayes:good night everybody i'm putting you to sleep with all my information well thanks for having me and uh thanks for playing so nicely all this year it's been a very very long long relationship i've had with bower designs and i think now that this new chapter has come where i've had this big part of my career that is now ending and on a very positive note uh i think that it's going to be interesting for me to start doing whatever my next chapter is especially here in atlanta and especially when it comes to product design which i'm already doing now but i want to keep things going with you all because I love the idea of using more and more like updated traditional in these houses that I'm doing.

1:21:40Brittany Hayes:And I love the fact that you are all here and I'm here and it's all local. It just feels like it's just feels like a great partnership.

1:21:45Brian Patrick Flynn:Yeah. Yeah. It's meant to be.

1:21:48Kaitlin Johnson:Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. The message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just$15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.

1:22:09Brian Patrick Flynn:Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan, equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. Can you tell everyone where they can find you and follow you?

1:22:20Brittany Hayes:Yeah, you can find me on Instagram. And this is controversial. So when Instagram started, I could not get my handle to be my actual name because there was too many letters at the time. so my handle is at b patrick flynn the b stands for brian which is my first name so when people come up to me in public and they only know me from instagram they come up and say hi patrick and i don't know who the hell they're talking about so the b is for brian which is my name which could not fit into the whole thing so if you type at b patrick flynn on any social media platforms you'll find me and just remember if you meet me in real life to call me brian or brian patrick flynn or all three names yeah the five syllables flow together nicely too

1:22:57Brian Patrick Flynn:all right well that's our show bye

1:22:59Brittany Hayes:Bye.

1:23:03Brian Patrick Flynn:And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog, howtodecorate.com slash podcast. To send in a decorating dilemma, email your questions to podcast at ballarddesigns.net so we can help you with your space. And of course, be sure to follow us on social media at Ballard Designs.

1:23:18Kaitlin Johnson:Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback. Until next time. Happy decorating. Thank you.