Ep. 452: Layered Minimalism with Elizabeth Bolognino

21:11Liz O'Neill:I know. You're lucky.

21:13Caroline McDonald:And we're working on something in Costa Rica right now, which is like so exciting and gratifying in every way because it's such a different flex for us creatively from my studio's perspective. So that's super, super, super exciting. Yeah.

21:30Elizabeth Bolognino:And do the sourcing of the furniture, is that totally different when you're working in a different country?

21:38Caroline McDonald:Yes, kind of. For this one, I would say yes, and we're not there yet. So we're just approaching this. Whether it makes sense to, you know, use our trusted vendors here, which we have these longstanding relationships with, take everything, put it on a shipping container, and have it leave the Port of Miami, because that way we can control it, right? Right. Or does it make more sense to use local vendors, which we're also, you know, we're looking into that, too? It's different. It's really different. I mean, our European stuff, I would say we use mostly the same vendors, but in Latin America, it's a bit of a different ballgame, simply because, you know, we've got weather elements that we need to deal with, particularly there.

22:31Caroline McDonald:half the time in that country it is dry as a bone like southern california and then the other half the year it's wet it rains every day you know you're gonna have a monkey coming through your back porch how do you deal with that like we had we literally had a conversation today about big cats oh yeah yeah about big cats because we've got this house that we're developing right now that is it has an open breezeway. And so what happens if a jaguar comes in? Yeah, that is a problem.

23:04Elizabeth Bolognino:Yeah, that's not a consideration that I have thought of for my own home. So, wow.

23:10Caroline McDonald:I, you know, I never thought about it until we got an email about big cat training about four days ago. Wow. Yeah. I initially like think, go to Shopping Brain and I'm like, okay,

23:24Elizabeth Bolognino:I know my trusted places. And if I were to go someplace so wildly different, like, I would be at a loss.

23:34Caroline McDonald:Yeah. And how do you bring your aesthetic to a new market for us? You know, we're building two custom homes that are rooted in tropical modernism, but it's under, you know, the EBI, the Elizabeth Bullenino. aesthetic. We're doing the exteriors and the interiors for these. And it's going to be totally new for the market in the country. So we'll see what happens. We're excited.

24:07Elizabeth Bolognino:Well, I can't wait to see what tropical modernism shakes out to be.

24:13Liz O'Neill:I want to ask for, you know, you've found these words to kind of describe it. How do you research from there? Like, what is your process here creatively on finding again that intuitive area between, again, modernism, tropical, and where do you find yourself like kind of finding inspiration?

24:35Caroline McDonald:Well, there is a tenet of layered minimalism that is always rooted in nature. So that's going to change depending on where the project is. so in context with Costa Rica we are certainly looking at you know native things in Costa Rica and the last thing I want to do is bring something that feels

25:07Caroline McDonald:like how do I say this to somebody who hasn't done the research on it it might be fine but But when you realize if you bring in like a straw basket that clearly that straw does not grow in Costa Rica, then I have not done my research and I'm going to look silly. So, you know, I think that's the first part is is researching the the environments our projects are in and seeing how can we like the materials. Yeah, bring the materials in. And also the sense of academia about, you know, are there Costa Rican furniture designers or maybe Latin American furniture designers that we may not know of but are super cool?

25:55Caroline McDonald:You know, how can we integrate their story into our projects? because for doesn't matter if our project is in Georgia, New York, Costa Rica, LA, whatever, we want to honor the tradition of those we learn from. The architects, the landscape designers, the furniture designers, the historians, like, like when none of us would be sitting in any of these rooms had somebody before not come up with a good idea. So let's honor them. Did that answer your question? No. Yes. No, it did. It did. Yes.

26:31Liz O'Neill:No, I think, you know, people listen to this podcast trying a lot of times to figure out their ways of reasoning and rationalizing decisions and things they love. And we talk a lot about location and the effects that location have upon design. And you, you know, you're speaking to it. And again, you have this different language of talking about this minimalism in a different way. And I think I just wanted to look at different ways to make it approachable. Because I know you talked about a lot of it is intuition. And some people, like, how do we build that confidence to really find, you know, the areas of appropriate research kind of, you know, to honor the location, to honor the materials of the location.

27:21Liz O'Neill:So that's why I was just interested in what you were, you know, other than big cats, which is obviously a very interesting thing to think about.

27:30Caroline McDonald:I think it relates back to like your personal story first to as a if you're if you're decorating for yourself, that's a good place to start. Like, how do you apply the layered minimalism method to your own project, your own home?

27:52Caroline McDonald:And the last thing that any of us want to do is walk into a house that feels like your neighbor's house. That is the worst, right? Everything's gray. There's nothing that reflects you as a person or a community, as a family. So I would always start with the things that mean the most to you. And that could be anything. I mean, it could be a box that you had that sat on your nightstand for 25 years. So what is it about that and why does it mean something to you? And maybe it's the, you know, it could be like a, I'm using carved box I'm thinking of as an example. But, you know, build a story around these things that are important to you.

28:43Caroline McDonald:It could be your grandmother's chair or mint code or whatever. like start there because you want to make sure that your story is different than everyone else and that is what makes design so special is it is really a reflection of who you are your interior design you know that's what we're trying to do all we're trying to do is take our interior design and put it out to the world right to make us like who who are who am i to everyone else and who am I to myself that I can live in this container that represents me? And it's a very long, very difficult question to answer, but that's what we are trying to get at.

29:26Do you feel like when the home that you're living in reflects you as the person,

29:31Liz O'Neill:it's just more comfortable to live in? Like, is that sort of the end goal? It's just a more enjoyable house to live in because it's reflecting who you are?

29:39Caroline McDonald:definitely and i think i think sometimes people like when they come to this house in in connecticut where i am now you know i'm in a very traditional house right now my my home here is quite traditional now when i lived in new york where by the way our studios are in union square in new York. And when I lived in New York City for 19 years, my homes were not traditional. My homes were very contemporary when we lived there. But I always feel like I'm like a horse with blinders on, where like, you know, you look in one direction and you're in this contemporary environment and you're like, oh, that's me.

30:23Caroline McDonald:And then you just flip a little bit and you're in this traditional environment and you're like, oh, I'm home. But here in this house, you know, it's very very traditional and I do feel like it's representative of who I am and who who I like I like the person I am when I'm in this house when you moved from your more contemporary space

30:47Liz O'Neill:in New York to your more traditional home in Connecticut what percentage of your you know sort of furniture and your things did you move and reimagine in the more traditional space and what did you have to edit you know that wouldn't necessarily work like our sofa the main things and

31:05Caroline McDonald:I think this is also a tenet of layered minimalism too is that we tend to look for pieces that have a neutral base like I'm looking at the sofa that we brought from New York in the other room here and it's like a Jean-Michel Franck style sofa that I have reupholstered that thing probably four times and I'm about to do it again just because I do not see the benefit of throwing something out if the shape still has longevity it's timeless I can replace the cushions fine we can reupholster it fine but I just don't see the benefit of choosing something new there are things in this house that we brought with us.

31:56Caroline McDonald:So like these bookshelves behind us, we brought, but there's quite a bit of new stuff here too.

32:04Liz O'Neill:Well, you may have, I imagine you went to a bigger space, so then you have to get new things, but just my, I'm asking because I'm curious how, you know, how you can reimagine something that maybe is in a totally different environment. But it still works because then you've sort of put it in a new context with new pieces. And so it's before maybe it felt contemporary, but now it feels more traditional because of. Definitely. Yeah.

32:35Caroline McDonald:I think the way that you style something and how you contextualize like a let's talk about like. Maybe like a console or a buffet or something like that. that is something that you can totally make feel different based on the wall color, the wallpaper, if there's a stack of books on it, if you've got bar utensils on it, you know, it may be in a place that gets a lot of light so you have, you know, beautiful floral arrangement on it. So it's not so much maybe about the furniture itself, it's really more about how that furniture accentuates everything else in the room. And those are the pieces that are, you know, the ones that will end up coming from your grandmother's house to this house.

33:26Caroline McDonald:Or if you buy something new, that's one that you hold on to. We've talked about contemporary, but I'm curious about the

33:32Liz O'Neill:editing process. I feel like that is, to me, that's the trickiest part, right? It's easy to add stuff in many ways, it's harder to know what to take away, right? And to know what to leave out of your design to make it, to make everything more successful. What are some things that you think about leaving out or taking away to get that minimalism part of the layered minimalism?

34:01Caroline McDonald:So we don't, we always tell our clients that it's not necessarily about like stuff on stuff on stuff. It's about the quality of the stuff or the story that the stuff is telling us. So there should always be a hierarchy. Whenever you're looking at anything, there should be a hierarchy. And I think for, you know, as a tenet of layered minimalism, a really great example for us is that we tend to not use fringe just because that's something that would probably be removed if you were a true minimalist. However, I think if you accentuate a fringe, like I would never take like a tassel fringe and put that on the bottom of a sofa that had 14 different pillows on it and had a crazy rug under it.

35:02Caroline McDonald:To me, that's too much, right? However, I might take a fringe because it's something that's traditional, reinterpret it, elongate that fringe. Maybe the fringe is out of linen or out of a hemp or something that's just not expected, but honoring the tradition of what that fringe signifies and using it in a different way, I would do that. So it's all about the reinterpretation, necessarily it being an adornment.

35:33Elizabeth Bolognino:I want to go back to something you said about Laird minimalism being rooted in nature. And I think when we think about, like, the first thought about contemporary minimalism, I would think, you know, colder shapes, a little bit harder shapes. So that stuck out to me. Can you explain a little bit more about how Laird minimalism is rooted in nature?

35:59Caroline McDonald:So I think typically when people talk about minimalism, their minds will shift to cool tones, right? Like whites and grays and blacks and whites, maybe sometimes primary colors.

36:20Caroline McDonald:And as you bring in something that comes from nature, you're automatically bringing something that, especially if it's from your area, that you feel comfortable with inherently into the room. And typically that is not going to be gray or white or black. It's going to be something probably browner. And so we're always trying to balance the cool and the warm tone through all of our fabric selection. If you look at any of our projects, you can see that there are cool tones And most of the time they are accentuated by something that's warmer. Even in the room I'm in right now, like the drapes, I'm looking at the color of the linen drapes behind me and then the color of the wall.

37:04Caroline McDonald:Like that is a very, very, very dark, dark, dark, dark green. Like a teal color, but super dark. So how do we balance that? If those were gray, then this room would feel so different. Or the another thing that I think people don't typically think about when talking about minimalism is the color temperature of the lights. You know, we're looking at minimalism, minimalist, typically 3000 and up Kelvin. Yeah. What's your Kelvin, Elizabeth? Oh, good question. Everybody's got their favorite Kelvin. um our kelvin is between 23 and 27 oh that is pretty warm yeah 23 is is pretty warm yeah yeah 23 is like candle 27 you know i would say our house is between 23 and 27 and my kids are really affected by it my kids my kids have a very visceral reaction at this point because they've grown up with warm lighting to cool lighting and it affects them oh yeah i my

38:18Elizabeth Bolognino:kid as well like cannot be in a room that is too cool with the lighting mine's even just overhead

38:27Liz O'Neill:lighting like i will go into a space and i have unfortunately become the person being like can i adjust some things in here like oh damn i mean i with close friends let's be real i'm not gonna i'm not i don't want to offend anyone but if it's a close friend i'm gonna be like something's off in here you guys the lighting yeah it's even dark out right now because it's about to rain and i i'm like it's too dark in here right now i need my warm lamps on but i can't reach them so i'm just sitting here in the dark it feels like because i don't want my overhead on that i can't reach

39:02Caroline McDonald:Well, think about how, like, a candle or candlelight affects your dining experience at a restaurant. Totally. Or, like, and I think that harkens back to the nature element. It's like that element of fire. It makes you inherently a little bit more comfortable. And that's why when you go and even, you know, when you see, like, the fake flames at first and you're like, oh, my God, they've got fire. And then you look closely. Yeah. And you're like, oh, it's not real. But you still felt that at first because the perception of something that's natural was brought into a space.

39:40Elizabeth Bolognino:You know, another thing that I recognize in your work is there's an inherent youthfulness to all of your work. And I wanted to find out where that's stemming from. Is it color? Is it texture? Is it humor? is it is it you know just adding irreverence where where are you coming from with all of that

40:04Caroline McDonald:i'm so glad that you just asked me this because i really appreciate it i do not think that as a designer y 'all we should not take ourselves that seriously come on like at the end of the day you can make something beautiful without it having to be so serious but there is so such

40:27Elizabeth Bolognino:a high level of sophistication in your work too so there's there's that juxtaposition of something being irreverent or being playful yet still really highly sophisticated i think it's a combination of

40:43Caroline McDonald:of understanding who came before us that's number one honoring tradition having fun not knowing that you know to me having something whimsical or a little off about design is what makes it interesting so we always do that we always throw something in there that's a little like funky whether it's an object or a piece of art like I always think about those um this penguin book who was it mel bockner i forget who makes them but there's artwork that is a little cheeky and like a very high level way or just just something that shows that the people in the space are not taking themselves too seriously even though they have the ability to be very serious that's magical to me and i think a lot about my my husband told me this story once about being in um he was at chris blackwell's house for a party or something this was many many years ago and chris blackwell is a record executive that started island records down in jamaica and he went into the bathroom of wherever they were and it was just this very private moment and looked up on the wall and there was this handwritten from Bob Marley of like no woman, no cry or something super significant, but so private and personal.

42:31Caroline McDonald:And just to have like - You use it in the bathroom? Yes.

42:33Liz O'Neill:Not over the fireplace or something. No. To have whoever put that there, A, is a genius.

42:39Caroline McDonald:B, it shows who that man is. and see to have that like personal, interactive, private moment with a piece of art. That's definitely a one-on-one moment. So significant. That's magical. And so it's like, how can you create those devil in the detail moments for people with an object or something funky or a bench or, you know, whatever that ends up being? That's magical. And it doesn't have to be expensive. that's the most important thing it does not have to be expensive i want to ask you a question and

43:18Liz O'Neill:this is going to be this is going to be revealing of my own house but i look at some of the spaces in your portfolio and they are so beautiful and so sophisticated as we've mentioned and i'm like where are their where's their stuff where's their tchotchke do they have a junk drawer i there's this gorgeous gorgeous uh closet in your greenwich estate uh project and there's just ginormous island um this is this is the rounded island i think and um it's this huge space i'm like i that is so beautiful and the image is so striking and then i'm like if there were actually my closet it would be completely covered in tchotchkes and junk so i'm curious do you do you think that does Do you walk away and your client lives like the images and they have that discipline?

44:14Liz O'Neill:Or do you know that there's a layer of personal effects that are going to be added after you leave? A billion percent, yes. Okay. It does make me feel a little bit better, I guess.

44:28Caroline McDonald:When you want your spring break to feel like... And your kid's pool day to feel like... And your hotel bed to feel like... Ooh, and room service to feel like...

44:44Elizabeth Bolognino:Because at Hilton, hospitality feels like... Your cabana's ready. Would you like fresh towels? It matters where you stay.

44:53Caroline McDonald:Book now at Hilton.com. Hilton, for the stay. Okay, so that, without giving away too much, that closet is incredible number one and there's a part of that closet that when we were prepping for the photo shoot that we opened up and there were head like head-to-toe boxes from hermes head-to-toe and i was like oh my god oh my god your georgia accent came that is not But well, and that's a one-off though. And I will say that, listen, like we're all real people, right? I've got three kids and most of our clients have kids. And so we like to say, we like to design things for real life where there's a place to put stuff.

45:54Caroline McDonald:If you're having an impromptu dinner party in one hour, you need to cook and you need to clean up. It's our responsibility to make sure that there is place for all those toys that you can clean up like you don't even have kids within one hour. And if we haven't done that, then we'd not do a very good job. So we plan for it. Yeah. But I think there's a difference between a photo shoot and real life.

46:22Liz O'Neill:Because, you know, I think and the way that you've styled, the way you've styled it is really reinforces that minimalism, I think, which, you know, is, again, so engaging and gorgeous for a photo. And so I guess I was just curious maybe what the push and pull was between styling for your portfolio and, you know, to showcase the work and then the way that it's maybe styled and lived in on a day-to-day basis. So that makes sense. Well, and I think that having, like, it depends on the person, too.

47:02Caroline McDonald:You know, for us personally, for me and my family, you know, I'm in a room full of books right now. I'm in a room with records and big speakers because my husband is a true audiophile and a musician. And I would never style this room different than how because I think it lends so much to our story. So the styling really depends on our clients and like what they're trying to say. Like I'm looking at both of your bookshelves right now and I can tell that you both are collectors and you read and you reference things. And if you had changed if you changed out all the books behind you to be like objects, white boxes with like a ball on top or whatever, like I would perceive you differently.

47:51Caroline McDonald:Right. True. Yeah. So I think it's all about like how what kind of story are you conveying? And as long as like I can get that story out of our clients, then we're going to make something really beautiful. But if you have a question to any other designers listening, if y 'all don't ask the question, I don't think you're going to get as good of a product than if you did ask those questions.

48:14Elizabeth Bolognino:Really, really loving your work. It's stunning.

48:18Caroline McDonald:Thank you. I have so much to show you that I have not. That's not up yet. Just because they're in between publishers right now. We have to wait. We'll come back another time and we'll follow your Instagram so we won't miss it.

48:31Liz O'Neill:What has been your favorite project recently? Yeah. And it doesn't have to be one you've shared yet. I guess visually, if you can share.

48:40Caroline McDonald:Okay. Yes. So I have three. I can't make up my mind. That's good. The first one is we just did a renovation of a kitchen in my, our farmhouse in upstate New York.

49:04Caroline McDonald:That is like the heart chakra of our family is at this, our property. And we did it in a manner that is very different than the work that I typically do. and I'm in love with it and I will I cannot wait to show you actually was this on your Instagram yes okay we haven't shot it yet but that that one that one is so great um and then we just finished a house in Bridgehampton for an art collector a lovely family this is that was the second project that we did with them it's very contemporary it's on the polo fields right literally abuts the polo fields in bridgehampton and so when you're when you're looking out their backyard you can see polo players practicing and horses and it's just so crazy cool um but we know her really well and this that was our second project so they own the tribeca loft on my website and then we did their house in bridgehampton which we have not we finished the photo shoot but it's not been published yet and then we have a third project coming up um on the Upper West Side for the same family yeah so that's super exciting fabulous um and then I guess our the third one I was thinking of is truly this this more traditional project that we just finished in in the Catskills called Marywold very traditional um it's a legacy house so it was built to be standing within, you know, for the next 250 years for this family.

50:45Caroline McDonald:They live in Los Angeles and they come to summer in the Catskill Mountains of New York, that they've been doing that since, you know, the 1800s. And we built a house from the ground up and it was just, it was so hard because the contractor was difficult, but the outcome was incredible. and I know how much it means to them and what this what this place this retreat provides for their family it's just it's it's so awesome but so different than anything that we've ever done

51:20Liz O'Neill:before it looks like there's might be a little bit of it on your instagram yeah everybody can go yeah do a little digging your instagram's definitely a great um kind of look into just because you have inspiration and work pictures.

51:39Caroline McDonald:I do want to know what's the fox? Oh, oh, good question. Great question. So the fox is... There's a fox.

51:47Liz O'Neill:Like you go scroll and then you'll run into a fox. Yes. You dive deep.

51:53Caroline McDonald:Anyway, yeah. So I love that. So I am a redhead. I think you are too, right? Do you have red hair? Yeah. Liz does, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I could see it. So it's been like a defining part of my life, just being like a redhead. And as I was younger in the South, my hair was bright red. And so I always thought about the fox as being my spirit animal. Because they're a little quiet. They're smart. I wouldn't say sneaky. I would say they're more just like. Maybe more tenacious. Tenacious, smart. Definitely not like. going to be on the front side of things, but more on the back side, kind of making sure everything runs well.

52:41So I feel like that's my spirit animal.

52:45Caroline McDonald:So that's why a fox pops up. And people send me foxes all the time. Oh, and for this Marywell project, the one that I told you I love. So when we were in construction, a fox used to visit us.

52:57Liz O'Neill:Oh my gosh. I'm not seeing any foxes, Taryn. You You have some eagle eyes. Really? I saw them.

53:03Caroline McDonald:If you go, if you like scroll down.

53:05Liz O'Neill:It's just, I was getting her whole, yeah, I just did my digging. That was all.

53:11Caroline McDonald:We used to post a lot more inspiration than we do now just because we have such a body of work now. We just want to stick to. And also, you know, I haven't been posting as much lately simply because I needed to take a minute from that. but um we did a few days ago and this is like out of my comfort zone we got scammed by a furniture vendor did y 'all see that i posted it i posted it on my stories because it's the first time it's happened to me in this way but i said something in our community it was incredible like i i was like i you know to the interior design community i want to let you know this is happening to us This is the downside of interiors.

53:58Caroline McDonald:We found a piece. We really loved it. We put a deposit down. It was this custom piece made in Europe. They kept writing to us. And then all of a sudden they ghosted us like completely.

54:12Liz O'Neill:Oh my gosh.

54:13Caroline McDonald:And I decided to like warn people. And the response was incredible because it was, I thought it would mostly be designers saying like, okay, thanks for letting us know. But the furniture makers, it was incredible. Like we had makers, small makers, large makers, people who want to protect the craft of what they're doing, reach out to me and say, we are so sorry that this happened to you. Whatever we can do to make it better for you, this is not who we are. And it was just such a beautiful moment as a designer sometimes i think we feel alone because we all work in these like and we're not alone and it just from the community standpoint it was very rewarding in that sense so i'm so sorry that happened i know i have heard that that's

55:11Elizabeth Bolognino:been happening more regularly especially with um antiques dealers oh wow really yeah oof

55:19Caroline McDonald:yeah it's like hear that yeah i and the the amount of other designers that wrote to us i had we had three different designers write to me specifically about the same vendor that we got from and now we're all connected with each other which is a good thing but there were the other designers that were like yeah i'm going through the same thing with this vendor i'm going through the same thing with this vendor. You know, I was told to contact this vendor about making some custom metal doors for me. And then we got them and they did not work. Like, it just goes to show how, I think, how the internet and really doing your due diligence on who you're working with, where the stuff is coming from, AI, that could trick you in two shakes of a lamb's tail.

56:12Caroline McDonald:You know what I mean? Yeah. So you got to be careful. And so it's all about talking to people behind a product instead of just, you cannot just buy. Right. So that's why we make great relationships with people and we depend on them. And they help us out when something comes in broken or, you know, I go to them because I need to find X, Y, or Z.

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57:16Liz O'Neill:about your costa rica project that to me it's like oh gosh the logistics would be so challenging but well i'll keep you updated yes please please do you're gonna see it on our instagram shortly yeah your instagram is beautiful so i encourage everyone to go can you tell everyone where they can find and follow you.

57:32Caroline McDonald:Yes. So I am Ebolonino, which is E-B-O-L-O-G-N-I-N-O, silent G. You can find me on Instagram. You can find us on Pinterest. I'm technically on TikTok, but I don't really use it so much by choice. But yes, please follow me. Reach out. Say hello. Wonderful. Love it.

57:56Liz O'Neill:Well, thank you so much for chatting with us and sharing your work and That's our show. We appreciate it.

58:01Caroline McDonald:Thank you so much for having me.

58:04Liz O'Neill:And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog, howtodecorate.com slash podcast. To send in a decorating dilemma, email your questions to podcast at BallardDesigns.net so we can help you with your space. And of course, be sure to follow us on social media at Ballard Designs.

58:19Elizabeth Bolognino:Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback. Until next time, happy decorating! We'll be right back.