Ep. 460: Tradition Made New with Tim Adams

0:01Welcome to How to Decorate from Ballard Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline. I'm on the marketing team. And I'm Taryn, and I'm a product designer. I'm Liz. I head up the creative team. We're your hosts. Join the expert team at Ballard Designs for tips, tricks, and tales from interior designers, stylists, and other talents in the design world. Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at the end of each episode. We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email us at podcast at valordesigns.net. Now on with the show.

0:33Our guest today is award-winning Atlanta architect Timothy S. Adams. His firm, T.S. Adams Studio Architects, has become synonymous with classical lines and highly detailed craftsmanship. Today we're talking about your new book, Tradition Made New, Houses with a Sense of Soul and History, which celebrates homes that feel grounded, authentic, and built to last generations. to madams welcome to the show thank you excited to be here so happy to have you we have your book here we've all read it and it's beautiful um you're supposed to just look at the pictures by the way oh we don't know i know i don't read architecture books i look at the pretty pictures well there were a lot of pretty pictures yeah if we had just done that it would have also been very fulfilling yes um we but but the but the the words were the good part is so we couldn't miss that.

1:23Thank you. Okay. As I mentioned in the introduction, you have very sort of classic sensibility in terms of your homes, but there's also a real authenticity. You talk a lot about building your projects based on the location where they are. So maybe just talk to us a little bit about, you know, kind of your overall thoughts on building residences for your clients and why, you know kind of what you're going back to in terms of the styles and the um the i guess like the just the the location the way that connects to the location all of our houses kind of respond to the site and i think you know there's a couple things at play the the client's program kind of what they want their wish list style um we you know we can do whatever we want but we really are leaning on the client to kind of give us an idea of what they like because this ultimately is their house.

2:21But then how does that integrate into the location? And that's the site. You know, we do a lot in North Carolina that there's a lot of topography. We do a lot in Florida where it's flat. And in any case, we always go and visit the site before we start designing because small lot, big piece of property, whatever it is, there's always pros and cons to everything. And you want to be reactive to that and you want to consider all that in the initial design work. So our process is really about, you know, getting to the client, understanding kind of how they want to live, how they're going to use the house, directionally, stylistically, what they want to do.

2:57And, you know, that sometimes it's all over the place. Sometimes it's very specific depending on the individual. And then take that information and then go kind of walk the property. And as I'm walking the property, I really start to place elements on the site. And in a way, I am designing the house. Now, it's not in specific of what everything is. But it is a relationship of, well, you know, responding, where does the garage need to be? Because you tend to start there, how you deal with, unfortunately, cars. They just take up a lot of space and have a lot of needs. So that's kind of a starting point when you deal with topography.

3:31But, you know, views and light and orienting towards, you know, natural light where you can use it to your best, on your best behalf. And then placing the elements around that. And that comes from, you know, understand the client, what they're wanting to do. And then from there, we start to build on that process. But responding to not only just the property, but a lot of times there's a view. We're looking at, we do a lot of waterfront homes, mountain homes. So these clients pay a lot of money for these views and you really need to honor that and respect it. Sometimes though in the views, there's something negative you don't want.

4:08There could be a cell tower. There could be a house next door that really is offensive or just ruins your privacy. You know, so you take all that into consideration in the early design phase. So that all kind of happens in a real, you know, it's funny because clients will want to meet me on site. And I think in this two-hour meeting and literally within 15, 20 minutes, you have it. You process it. This is a normal lot. Now, if it's a thousand acres, different story. that's a day that's driving around that that's looking at aerials and studying that and and that's a different challenge but it's a fun challenge and that is more than just one site visit that's generally a kind of a ongoing piece you come up with a concept you then vet it out in the field and you might you know drive where the roads would be or walk it and get an understanding and move things around so that's a little bit different but when your typical lot if you will a piece of property that somebody's buying in a, you know, in one of the communities up in North Carolina or in Florida or wherever it is.

5:10Yeah. You start there. Yeah. I picture you just standing on the top of a hill in like North Carolina and being there for like five minutes and being, all right, got this. Yep, there, there. So that pretty much is what it is. Yeah. I'll make it a lot more than that, for the record. You will, you will. I will expand on it. I will, you know, they're excited. You want to respect that. Yeah. And you want to kind of give them an insight inside, you know, what I'm thinking in some direction. So I'm not going to go up there and be like, oh, all done. See you. I'll talk to you in a couple of weeks. No.

5:41Yeah. And you want to respect that. But, you know, I go into a lot more detail with them and talk about, you know, like tomorrow I'm going up to North Carolina and we had to move it because of the snow. So the clients can't be there. So this will be a 15 minute site visit. Done. Got it. There's also a sensibility of materiality and, you know, what works in a region, what doesn't. So we do a lot of work in places we've never worked before. And one thing I'll do a lot of is I'll drive around the community, look at the older homes, look at the architectural character, the details, the materials that they're using.

6:13That will tell you a lot about what works and doesn't work in a certain region. So when you get in, you know, humid areas, there's a different type of material that you want to consider versus dry and arid. So a lot happens, you know, in that timeframe, but it just kind of a lot of just perceiving what's going on around you. But it's really important to understand that and think about that. I think the perceiving is an interesting, again, thinking about it, if that makes sense. You'll drive around a neighborhood and be like, why does this feel so good? Or like, why does this feel bad? Yeah, why does it just not work?

6:45Yeah. Sometimes I feel like it's easier to spot what doesn't work versus what does work, you know? Yeah, because generally it stands out. It's forced. And that's what, you know, a client wants a certain thing. We're going to honor that. We'll explain why we may not want to. But, you know, I did a house on West Paces Ferry. Gosh, this was 15 years ago, maybe. They wanted to do a really contemporary house on West Paces Ferry near Pace Academy. Which, for our listeners, I mean, the governor's mansion is on the street. Yeah, to narrow that down, yes. It is a very traditional. Very traditional. Yeah.

7:23And I said to him, I said, I'll do it, but I don't think that's the right decision. You're really going to kind of, you're going to really stand down. It's just a few doors down from the governor's mansion. And through the conversations where I kind of led them was, okay, well, let's do an English manor house. Let's really pull it way back. So we keep the lines, we keep all stone, slate, really strong materials, strong details, very simple and, you know, clean. but nobody's gonna drive by and go flat roofs and big window expanses and monolithic materials and it blends in and we set it back we landscape the front but it looks appropriate but it fits their wish list and their desires then inside yeah we stripped it way back it went really clean and but it was done in a way that the exterior still spoke to the interior because i think that's important by by the simplicity of the details but if you drive by the house you probably wouldn't pick up on it that it's such clean lines on the inside.

8:25I would think, too, that it would that would give the house more longevity. I mean, most people are designing for themselves, but you do want to build something that will that other people will appreciate and you can sell. And I mean, not that you're designing for resale, but something that has staying power, I guess. Yeah. And those are conversations we have with clients because they're like, this is our last house. I said, that's fine. And again, if you want to just do one bedroom, knock stuff out. But I also say to them, what if in 10 years you come across the most unbelievable piece of property that you can't pass up?

8:59And now you've kind of saddled yourself with this house. It's not really marketable, not really a driving decision maker, but it's a conversation that should be had. And usually they're like, yeah, we probably need to consider some of these other things. um but also you know we're trying to create architecture that you know i use the word soulful soul because i think timeless is just used so much nowadays and i'm not to use that because i feel like it is kind of just this word that's tossed over and so i really kind of gravitate towards soulful architecture and something that if we do our job right and we we design a house that's rooted in the right materials the right proportions the right details yet lives in this century you know it's not we're not designing for the the medieval times but we can draw from that and if we put it together properly then i feel like that house has soul it's kind of like antiques have soul and there's that's there and so when we put all that together in a way that it feels right like we were talking about a minute ago then i feel like in 20 or 30 years the house is still relevant it's it's not you hate to say it the the some of the trends that we've gone through and we always go through them um if you really kind of boil it down to what makes an architecture work and then bring that into the house it's going to have that sense of soul you were talking about and you do a great job in the book of this of you have these fantastic lots many of your clients and so you mentioned in the book in certain projects where you're kind of echoing the shape of the house around the topography and that obviously makes total sense i'm curious what that process looks like when it's a square lot in you know a subdivision or something i you may not be doing a lot of those projects but is there something that our listeners who maybe they are building a house and it's a beautiful vista view of north carolina like what kind of things should they maybe consider in the way their house is positioned that um that will you know make a difference in the livability i think goes back to it and we do houses on narrow lots we're doing stuff in florida where palace beach is 35 feet wide i mean you know it's it's very you know internal focused um so no we do with that a lot um again it is very site responsive because you know if you if you got a garage and driveway way to the left of your house for your neighbor and then a kitchen window on the right-hand side.

11:34Okay, well, we need to think about where we place our windows, where we place our master bedroom or our primary suite. How do we arrange these things? And it depends on the width of the lot. Sometimes we can get more of a U-shape or a courtyard type thing where we can focus ourselves in. A lot of times, particularly here in Buckhead, we're really focused front and back. In the sides, yes, I'm going to always have windows and contemplate what that architecture looks like. But I want to try to be conscious of what they're looking at, what they're doing, what that room is. You know, not put big windows in the master bedroom looking at somebody's garage.

12:09Right. We will intentionally focus toward the back. Because you don't want to, right? That's awful. So, you know, that's one of the most important things about walking the site is making notes of what's there, what's positive, and what's negative. And even then, you still have houses behind you. Handscaping becomes really important to create privacy. Or if the budget allows, do you have a pool house in the back? Um, there's a house in Louisiana that's in the book. Um, that you probably picked up on it, but when I walk, it's a very big lot and it's on the, um, Brideon river and there's kind of a bend in the river.

12:44And I walked out there and I told the client, I said, the one bad thing is we've got this huge white Greek revival house across the river from you. And it's not that it's a bad house or an ugly house. It's just this white. So you got all this green, and then you got this monstrous white house that when you come, when I walk in the lot, I'm like, that just draws your eye into it. And I knew that he loved orange and citrus trees, lemon trees. He had grown them. And so I knew that there was kind of that thread of history, if you will, of what he's done in his gardens. So I said, I know. We're going to do an orangery.

13:24I said, so Frankie, what if we propose an orangery at the back of your sight line coming through the main space to stop your eyes so you're not looking at the White House? And then what it does is it turns your eye up the river. So now you're looking up the river preview versus the house. So walking the site is paramount. And I get people interviewing us and saying, hey, you know, we don't need you to come to wherever. You know, we're talking about something in Kansas the other day. And like, well, do you really need to come? And I'm like, I won't do your house without doing it because I'm not doing my job properly.

13:57So even, again, even as a large piece of land, the nuances of all that's so important. Yeah. That seems like a great takeaway for anyone building. Like, if your architect that you're talking to doesn't want to come to the physical site, maybe that's a red flag. It definitely is a red flag because they're missing out on one of the fundamental pieces of my mind. Yeah. And, you know, we get asked all the time, can I buy this plant? We don't sell plants. And I tell them it doesn't, that house was designed for that site. You know, generically it may fit all the family needs of, you know, most families.

14:34But it was designed for that particular spot and location. And so I'll tell them it's a great place to start. I know what you like, but let's do it right. and let's, you know, put together something that's responsive to all of these pieces. Yeah. Do you think there are any instances in which one of those plans, you know, like Southern Living used to sell their house plans. Are there any situations in which that works and, you know, could be a good fit for someone? Absolutely. You know, what we do is not inexpensive. It's a lot of time. It's a commitment. You know, we put a lot of energy into it.

15:18So, you know, it's not a cheap thing to do. And I respect that. And I will have people call me and talk to us. And I said, look, I don't, for your budget and what you want to do, we're not the right fit. You don't need to spend the money on us. And then a plan, you know, something like that. The Southern Living Plans are great. And they work really well on fairly generic lots, if you will. When I say generic, not boring. more something that's that has doesn't have a lot of topography um is easy to work with you are going to compromise potentially some you know you're looking at your neighbor's kitchen window or something like that and you could probably make some adjustments on that but there definitely is a time and place for and i will say we've done a lot of work in watercolor florida and some of those communities and they it works really well there because you've got this foot you know your your sights 50 by 90 and you've got a seven and a half foot setback on each side and it's it's it's flat and you're building every bit of that so the box is the box right um and they're so on you have to have a porch here you have to have a two-story porch here so it really i don't i really kind of stopped designing in there because it got boring if you will i want to say that loved some of the houses we did there um i mean i want to take that part out for our clients in there.

16:32But it got to the point where we're just regurgitating the same thing. And you're trying to be creative and trying to give something special to each client. Yeah. But when they tell us you have to do, you know, eight out of ten things, well, then it comes down to where do you put the great room? Is it in the front or the back? Yeah. How does everything work inside this box? There are so many solutions. It's on the fourth floor to make it creative. We thought we'd really kind of throw you a loop. Yeah, I don't think that'd go really well. Yeah. Probably not. So there's definitely applications, and I completely recognize what we do is not for everybody.

17:05Hopefully someday they will be there, but it's not for everybody. And I think it's a great thing. And there's some beautiful plans that you can purchase online if you're really kind of selective and look hard enough. Mm-hmm. So. Well, how, when you have a plan, like, I imagine maybe, how are you placing it inside the lot, right? Like, is that something that your contractor would help you do? Or? I think, yeah, a lot of people work with their contractor, their builder, and they place it there. And those good builders have a pretty good sense of what works and what doesn't work. and that's you know again it's just understanding the lot and the topography and what you're working around but generally that's how it's done or they may engage a landscape architect or civil engineer to help out with that if there is a little bit more work to be done you talk about in the book how you say something it's like subtle features can make a tremendous I know what I said I've not read the book but once believe it or not wait what well you did say that I only read it once well you like wrote it so I can see why you're like, I only need to read it one.

18:15It's a really weird thing. You know, obviously, I read everything multiple times I was writing with the writer. But I read through it. I don't think I've read through it again since I got in hard cut. Just kind of a weird thing. What came out of your brain? What do you need to read it for? Well, you supposedly said. No, I said it. I'll do that. I will back that up. Or maybe chat GPT. Just kidding. I know you don't. This is pre-jet. Chat GPT. It's fair. Okay, you said Subtle features can make a tremendous difference. And I really, you know, and you were talking about how sometimes small, I guess, gestures or elements within the design can really change the feel of the house in general.

18:55And I was kind of thinking about someone, if they're building a house and they're working with an architect, how they might know when, because we, and we were doing an episode a couple weeks ago about all the things that happen in the build process and, you know, little changes that happen. And, you know, there's a lot of elements all coming together. And sometimes you might be compromising on things. How do you know that the things that you're compromising on is something that's going to make a really big difference or something that is something you can live with? I take the approach when I'm designing a house that I'm going to give you my best, but my best idea is my best design, whatever I can.

19:41and I'm going to listen to you as well. And a lot of times we'll put something on paper and the client goes, it's not really what we were thinking. But then I'll go through and explain why we did it. And then they're like, wait, that's exactly what we wanted. And so those nuances are really important. That comes from listening and understanding and really reading between the lines with clients. But there are times where clients are like, I don't want to do that and I really just don't want to do that. And fine, we won't do it. And I've said many times in the back of our office, I'm like, they don't really realize what they gave up and they never will.

20:13And nobody ever will because, you know, that, that moment has passed. Sometimes that does happen. And for whatever reason, they, they can't get on board with it. Um, they just, sometimes it's budget driven. Sometimes it's just stubborn, whatever it is. So the really kind of sage clients we work with and, and, um, are really, I would, I know how to put this um have either done it quite a few times or are very comfortable with themselves and in in business or what have you and they trust people they trust the people they hire they'll ask they'll say if we take that out am i really making a mistake and i'll be honest with this that's that to me that's a 50 50 kind of cool not a big deal or yeah you're really messed you're going to miss something and it would have been a missed opportunity um so i think if you're really smart and you want to get the best out of an architect, ask those questions.

21:11Why did you do that? I don't understand it, but why did you do it? And what's your thought behind it? And do you feel passionate about it? Because sometimes I don't feel passionate about something. I'll tell a client. It's fine. It's a neat detail. But there's other things we can do just as cool that will accomplish the same thing. And other times I'm like, you're really messing up. Can you give us some examples of something that is something that will really make a difference? A lot of times it's materiality. Okay. I mean, there's a time and place for things. And again, I always try to be conscious and sensitive to a client's budget.

21:49Because ultimately, if we design something that's so far out of reach, it's a waste of time. There's nothing good that happens with that. So I always tell my clients, I'm going to push you. You know, we talked about your budget. I'm going to push you a little bit because I feel like if we push the envelope a little bit and then we have to pull back, we're pulling back, but we're pulling back to it. We started at a higher point, right? So I said, we designed to 11 and we make some cuts. We end up at a 10 or a 9 versus starting to design at a 9. We end up at a 7. So a lot of times it's materiality, something like that.

22:25Sometimes it's a detail they don't understand. um a good example is i had a house on lake kiwi i did for client this is the second house i'd done for him and we detailed everything out we drew it and they started construction in the we had drawn all exposed rafter tails which doesn't sound like a big deal but when you start to see a house that it's on the lake it's meant to be a little more rustic and you got the repetition of these little details you just see a little bit of it but it continues down the house on all the sides and the builder convinced him to take that out into a closed soffit which there's a time and place for everything that wasn't the time and place and we went out there and it was too late and the client was like yeah he told me i'd save a couple thousand dollars and i said it wasn't worth it that was a huge mistake and i wish you guys would talk to us first but the the builder which we don't work with him anymore because he really burned that bridge rather than have the conversation and let's see what we can do to maybe we save money elsewhere right yeah but not there and so it's little things like that that can happen and and um it really altered the design significantly and later he regretted it the owner did he's like yeah i understand why you're so passionate about that yeah um that's so hard to hear that it's just a couple thousand dollars like i could imagine if it's like you know a whole lot thirty thousand dollars twenty thousand yeah it was not much in the grand scheme of things yeah like and we probably could have done in a slightly different way that would have saved him enough money to where it would have been a minimal change cost-wise yeah and the thing about it is the client really is not strapped for money it wasn't i don't even think it was that much for him other than the builders didn't want to do it and he convinced him that this is what he should do because i know the client he's done just fine um so i don't yeah i mean you might spend that on a couple dinners and bottled wine you know i mean when you put it in that perspective but yeah it was just the builder kind of got over skis and and had his ear and you know so you know we we try to interview our builders and make sure that they're team players and that you know when something like comes about talk to us first let's have that conversation if the client's passionate about it then let's all talk about it but let's not deviate from what we've worked on yeah do i imagine you do most um like i know there's parts of the architectural like the design process where you're really doing the plans but then there's also the project management and like during the construction part what would you say to someone that is not necessarily planning to have the architect stay on during the building process that happens from time to time we we're trying to we're including construction admin as part of our fees um because we feel like it's a really important piece of the project that the project does get better when we're involved the way through and i don't like to make changes during construction because it's not about that it's more about it's not about checking the builder either or managing him.

25:37It's more about being available and reviewing shop drawings and materiality and making sure we're picking the right colors and making sure the stone's right and the mortar's right and are we laying it the right way? Does it fit our vision?

25:52And we design a house and that's it. So it's not a perfect process and there are times where you go out and you're like, hmm, we should probably look at that trim detail. It's not quite coming together. And so little nuances like that that can elevate a project by us having an extra set of eyes from a creative perspective makes a tremendous difference. If somebody doesn't want us to do it, we'll respect that, and that's fine. We don't want to be adversarial in anything we do. Right. But we try to explain to them, we got a house right now that that happened, and I told the builder in the background, and I said, look, I'm not walking away from the project.

26:28We still want to do this stuff. I don't care if we don't get paid for it. I want to make sure we get it right because it's a really nice house. And so, we'll just, take it on the chin and it's not a big deal um it's more important that when we're all done that it comes out right yeah yeah it's such a big investment that you do want to have you know someone with your skill and knowledge and and experience to to really follow through absolutely yeah and then i think it the builders appreciate it too you know because we're you know one of the first i tell a new builder that i've not worked with is look this is a team effort we're here to support you not fight you and and we want to be part of that team and we want you to reach out to us with questions and clarifications and what you need um the vast majority of the clients get it and they want it and you know when we interview i tell them look i'm with you from now until you move in so and a little bit after that because i think it's really important and you establish that relationship but there's some that and usually again it's like i was saying earlier the clients who um have been around it enough and have done it enough and value kind of your role they're the ones they they get it and they understand it yeah some people think we're like getting in the way of the builder or helping the builder we're like no we're not doing his job I don't want to do his job.

27:53We're supporting him. Yeah, you're, I mean, you're giving the direction, yes, from the beginning of what the client wants. And so, again, the builder is supposed to be just helping that process. So, yeah. Yeah, he's managing the process and bringing it together and then making sure that things stay on track. Yeah. But there are a lot of moving parts and lots of things can go wrong and adjustments maybe need to be made for better or for worse. And yeah, you're there to make sure it's still getting to the same point. Right. We're trying to hit the intent. A little thing, it's not really a little thing, is window shop drawings.

28:35I can almost guarantee you every, so when you do a project, the builder sends the windows out to get priced. that manufacturer sends back the drawings of all the windows what's been priced and i can almost guarantee you every time we review one of those there's two or three mistakes yeah and it's usually the light pattern in the windows or there's um a missing window or there's a size that's wrong or proportions are off there's always something and a builder's not always catch that um but it seems like 99 of the time something is overlooked and once you sign that thing you're committed you own it yeah yeah um you were talking about construction admin what would be like a general idea of the cost compared to the overall architectural that's hard to answer well like would it be like five percent ten percent you know what i mean like 10 of the fees okay so and then the reason that's a i'm giving a vague answer is because it's there's such a wide, you know, is it a 3 ,000 square foot house?

29:42Is it a 15 ,000 square foot house? So it's not really, it's hard to quantify that. Yeah. But generally it's around 10%. Okay. And, you know, sometimes we do it hourly because we know the builder. We're like, he's not going to, he's going to do his job. He's going to hit me when he needs me. Otherwise he's going to roll. And if there's a problem, I'll know about it in advance. You don't need to pay me as much because you got the right builder. And I'll tell clients that up front. And others come in the door, I'm like, I really like him, but he's going to wear us out. Yeah. So you're going to pay for it.

30:12And that's fine. But recognize he's going to call three times a week or three times a day. And he's going to need us out there all the time. And as part of it, he wants to make sure he's doing it right. It's not a bad thing. But he's maybe a little more insecure about what he's doing versus another builder. And I've got builders all over like that that we work with all the time that fall in different categories. Mm-hmm. Do you, when you, who do you find most people are hiring first, the architect or the builder? The architect? Generally the architect, yeah. I would say nine out of ten times we're in the door first.

30:49And then are you, like, do you ever give, like, suggestions or recommendations about builders that you think are good? Yeah. So our role kind of, I tell clients in the highest, we now work for you. We're your manager. You're your point person. And as we go through the process, I want to recommend several landscape architects, several interior designers, several builders. Now, COVID, you had to just pick a builder and get in line because you were waiting six months. So we'd be picking a builder when we, you know, had a concept. And you just accepted that. But I would help them pick that builder.

31:28And, you know, they'd probably go interview two or three and then say, that's it. But generally, I like to give several names. There are times where I feel very passionate about somebody, that it's a fit. And I'll just say, this is the right person. If you're going to like them, then we'll give you some other names. But generally, I don't have relationships with any one person, whether it's landscape architect, designer, builder. Because I feel like each person has, every client has a different personality. So part of what I'm trying to do is marry up who's going to connect well with that family.

31:59So that it is a win because it's a lot of time and money you're spending with this person. So I like to build a team. I like to present them to the clients, let them think that they can connect with. What kind of traits are you looking for in a client and a builder to pair them up? Like what kind of matchmaking? Yeah, exactly. A lot of it's personality. You know, some people who are executives, for instance, they're going to want buttoned up numbers, you know. They want to see every line. They want to see a rolling budget that when things, you know, they want to see, you know, things going up or down and kind of pairing along.