Ep. 470: Art, Textiles, and Timeless Partnerships with Susan Hable

0:01Welcome to How to Decorate from Ballard Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline. I'm on the marketing team. And I'm Taryn, and I'm a product designer. I'm Liz. I head up the creative team. We're your hosts. Join the expert team at Ballard Designs for tips, tricks, and tales from interior designers, stylists, and other talents in the design world.

0:22Liz McCarthy:Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at the end of each episode. We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email us at podcast at ballardesigns.net. Now on with the show. Our guest today is an artist, a product designer, and a visionary behind the Athens, Georgia-based design studio, Habel Construction, which she founded with her sister, Catherine, known for her bold hand-painted patterns, incredibly joyful use of color. She's been partnering with her sister brand, Garnet Hill, for 20 years. And today we're going to talk about her latest collection, her product design business, and and how art is the heart and soul of all four product collections.

0:57Welcome, Susan Havel. Thank you. Thanks, Liz. Thanks, Caroline. We're so happy to... Both Liz and I have been fans of yours for so long. That is so sweet. It makes me sound like an old dinosaur, but I kind of am, so I'll take it. Thanks. I know. I've been doing this business, this has been about 27 years. And I was driving here today thinking, what has happened? 27 years? That's actually... That's a long time. I mean, like if I said to somebody, I've had a business for 27 years, that's substantial. It is, yeah. That's kind of crazy. Anyway, yes. Just set us up. Like if our listeners aren't familiar with your work, you know, we obviously mentioned you have a product design or a product line with Garnet Hill, but you at Hable Construction does, you know, lighting, furniture, textiles.

1:50You sell art. You are working on a jewelry collection. So your product design business is really multi-category, and it all sort of stems from your artwork. So what I want to start with is how did you get into the product design world? Was that something that you kind of planned for, or did you fall into it? I don't know. There was no planning. I mean, I'm going to be really honest. This is the part that I, well, I will, I am very honest, kind of an open book sometimes if you hit me on the right day. That's every day. But I am not, my story is not that unique in that, you know, I've always been an artistic, I was an artistic child.

2:42There were, I grew up in a small town. There were few opportunities, but I got, I had two really incredible opportunities. There were two different women in town. They're both still living and are vibrant. One was a watercolorist named Morgana Harwood, and the other was an oil painter and incredibly Sander Dowd, incredible for both of their skills. I mean, they were known. and so I got to spend I got to have lessons with Morgana and then I took a painting class at the junior college in town when I was in high school and I would also help when Sandra would have classes in her studio and I'd clean up and I was the I was the helper so I got to be around as much art as there was you know my mother would always see to that I think they knew that they were not artistic my mother was had kind of more of a craft she still is making pressing flowers and and she still makes things and takes a lot of pleasure she's a big gardener so i have and then her mother had fabulous taste so i always kind of reference back to my mimi in some design some designs that I do I do always go look back at what Mimi did because it was not any she was not schooled in the arts it was it was definitely not what she did for a living and being an artistic person would have not been in her vocabulary so she just happened to have really fabulous taste but so I grew up they didn't know what to do with me um they would kind of joke my sister has always joked that if I was hanging upside down naked from a flagpole my parents would point and say look at our creative daughter and if my sister did that she'd be grounded all summer you know she'd be working like washing dishes somewhere I mean which it's not that extreme but I do think I got a lot of hall passes because I was special you know but then when I wanted to go to art school that was not only a no but a hell no you're gonna kill yourself if you go to New York so we're gonna force you into a small little box and you're gonna pick from this little piece of the world and you get to you get to choose that so I'm anyway move through moving through that whole time I felt that all I could do to get into a world I worked for some small businesses out of college but I knew that if I did not find a commercial application for whatever I was doing drawing painting then that was my only entrance into the world of design I didn't know it was beyond me I had worked for two jewelry designers I'd gone to I thought I was gonna be a jeweler I'd gone to school in Italy but I after working for those two people I was like no way never touching jewelry again but I've always just loved it and obsessed over estate pieces I just think the Victorian time the Georgian time so incredible so I always have these secret passions that have kind of followed along through all of these gigs that I've done these jobs but my business with my sister started, I had gone on my very first trip to India.

6:24I have a friend's mother who is completely kooky and wonderful. And she had been to India seven times and had a store in San Francisco. I had, after I did finally send myself to Parsons for just, I thought, oh, I'll be a shoe designer. I mean, literally I was grabbing at straws. Shoe designer. I took an accessories design program there. And it, I think it was because I literally was kind of throwing, you know, there's that expression, I hate it, but it's like throwing spaghetti on the wall and see what sticks. Um, I've had a couple of people in my career tell me that, and I've like followed along with that.

7:07And it's not the best idea. I'll just go ahead and tell you, don't do it. So, so you go to India and then how do you start your business with Catherine? So I bring home a duffel bag of fabric and I start washing it in the sink and the, and it bleeds because as they do, most fabrics that come home from India from, they were literally taken from like the printer. And I didn't know, you know, they weren't fixed. They were some natural dyes, some not, but they bled. This is kind of a wacky thing and I'll just keep this short but I had some weft which is the fabric that you put inside your lapels in a suit which gives it body and I had some of that I was just playing around I like to collage and so I was playing around with collaging that and the ink got on that and that has enough natural fiber in it to tint it so I started making these crazy big scarves like I was asked to do one for Mick Jagger the Rolling Stones were coming through San Francisco and I was making these huge they were like theatrical drapes and somebody said oh you know the woman who did my sewing her husband had worked for a famous old blues artist he was the roadie and I guess he was backstage and he said I'll make sure Mick gets it and he'll love to come out on the stage in this and of course I'm like yes but we started with this crazy idea but with this idea I got our first order with Barney's wow because it was so unique and my sister and I my sister was in Chicago I was in San Francisco and we really decided at that point we were going to come together.

8:55She was moving back to the city with twins and she was cross-eyed from Sesame Street. And I was, it was time for me to go. And I had a couple breakups that were like, get me out of here. And I scooted back to New York and And then we started this company and the rest is history. But the mostly the most I think the funniest thing was I have had dreams and I this has happened over the course of our business. But I had a dream after. So my body was hurting. I was ironing this weft onto this organza. I mean, it was just this whole thing. Catherine was beating. We started beating on top. I mean, she was having her third child, and she had this scarf in the room at St.

9:50Vincent's beading. And I said, what is that doing here? That's so gross. And she was like, well, I had to get this one finished before I shipped. I'm like, does that say anything about us? We're crazy, but okay. So I dreamt that I was painting this huge flower, and it was turning into a print. And so the next day I called Catherine. I said, I had a dream. Oh, my gosh, we have to figure out how to screen print. And she goes, okay. And I said, I don't know anything about it. But I think this is the way we're going to be able to make production and change this flow. And so that is really what moved us in a different direction.

10:36So it started with textiles. But I'm not a trained textile designer. so that's how this commercial application happened and then it just you know we did that for um probably the first 12 years of our business and we had retail stores in New York yeah and so that was fun because you know so I think in a 27 year old business I think it's safe to say I don't know if this is for everyone, but we've had different faces, different times where we were wholesale driven. We were retail driven, you know, ebbs and flows with the culture, with our world. Right.

11:26Liz McCarthy:Yeah. This was all before this was like back in caveman. You know, as we say before the interweb, before the Internet. And people would have their magazine and they'd come to the shop and they would say, I saw this. and they would find us. It was sweet, like a treasure hunt, which I do. I mean, you know, I take the present. I take whatever comes, but those were really sweet times. Well, there was definitely a phase where y 'all were sort of like darlings of the home editor. Like y 'all were in all the shelter magazines. Yeah, I know. There were so many. And it was Hable Construction and it was your store in New York.

12:08so what were sort of the early products I mean I think the beads is probably what most people would have seen oh yeah and we're beads fabric so we still are number one seller I mean it's not probably it is yeah you're you got towels still from Garnet Hill yes so great I love those towels I know I'm kind of like hey Garnet Hill let's have a let's have a 12 color range you know but yes I love those um that is still an important pattern and I think you know some people work like their whole career to get one or have that one thing that clicks I mean once we've done it now I do kind of always think is this going to be one of those items you know I do that does go through my mind but there has to be some like it's almost like a lightning strike time so the shelter magazines the reason I think that that was the way it was is because our war our rule was if somebody picks up the phone from press answer it and we will send any samples that they need we didn't we couldn't afford PR so that was the choice if we wanted the PR we had to send and you know back in those days I mean we could just throw our pillow in a sack or a tote bag in a sack and then a courier would come by and pick it up and then off it would go even in a day's notice right so it was it was a wonderful time for that world yeah and then all of our friends who were assistants grew up to be the editors you know and we kind of all grew up together and then it has all shed you know so such as such as life right yeah people might know your beads print it's sort of it was inspired by beads and it's sort of a circle pattern linear like circular linear pattern i guess i think that's what it it's organic but it's a small pattern so it's great for a seat you know the size of a seat or the size of a pillow you get a lot of the pattern and what I have found from from my experience as many patterns as I may draw or paint that are these wonderful big expressions I feel like people there's some calming effect of a small pattern it's almost the repetition I mean that's why I think when I've traveled the world you know if you look at all the patterns you see around the world in Egypt or in India I see it often in block printing that tighter repetition is has some magic about it and of course yes it works i think there's a pattern by sister parish you know the one it's like a yeah it looks like a bird footprint or like a or like a petal or an acorn a little tiny tree or yeah but it to me i mean i think more people have tried to copy that i'm sure they have because they've tried to copy the beads but it's just like you can't really copy it it's just so solid I mean just go for the real thing yeah yeah well there's like you know the Mirameco like Mirameco or um well and I loved I grew up on Mirameco but has that graphic quality yes and big scale and

15:54Liz McCarthy:really bold but yes but the smaller prints like you're talking about like they just add so much texture yes ground no matter where you use them yes and I you know when we started I wanted to paint really big things because they weren't in the market. Well, come on, they weren't in the market because it's hard to use those things. So of course we did it. You know, we wanted to do something different, but there's a reason why there's not a lot of that in the market. It's, you know, it's almost like having that dress that is so incredible. But once you wear it, you really need to, if you're going to wear it again, it's got to be on another coast.

16:35now with instagram i mean or photos there's no way that dress can go to another if if you're a person that's that people are watching yeah right so your beads are like more of like a little black dress or a trench coat kind of situation i say the beads is more a white shirt it's our white shirt yeah yeah the gap is the white shirt and the jeans that's our white shirt yeah like you can put it on a tote bag you can make it into a seat cushion you can put on towels it's on the clothing for this new collection this summer with garnet hill yep tell them what it's on like a two-piece kind of it's a two-piece number it's so cute as my daughter says it's a set mom and i'm like yep it is a set so we made a cute tote bag a little headband and this oh well the dress actually i'm thinking we have it in the dress we have this darling dress that has a nipped in waist and then it's in this set which is a super cozy but you could still actually go and have lunch with somebody in this pant with elastic waist like a linen yeah trouser and a little wide leg pant yeah yeah it's super cute and sort of an um like a teal your couch you could be your sofa yeah well that's that's kind of the beauty of the um of the beads print but you're still designing fabrics today and you and everything still kind of dovetails out of your artwork so yes what are you sort of getting your initial inspirations from and what is like the foundational medium for you is it painting is it drawing watercolor oh my gosh that's a loaded question when I'm making art I literally with the exception of oil painting and I have an oil painting show up which when I paint with oils I really can't stop it has to be like I had to paint consistently for months to achieve that work when I'm working in my other mediums in the water mediums I can hop into different mediums different mediums with oil I really struggle it's almost like it's an itch that is in constantly needs to be scratched so I'll come back and I'll see problems and then I'll try to work those problems out it's almost it's like the most complicated I love puzzles it's the most complicated puzzle ever because one brush stroke and the whole thing shifts so um I would okay but I have to I have to interject a little

19:29Liz McCarthy:bit because I just stopped at your show before this recording and it's at Spalding Knicks Gallery in Atlanta and it's a wonderful show and they're all oil paintings so it's really interesting for me to hear that you spent so much time and are you know go back and really kind of struggle with different things because there's such joy and immediacy that comes through in the paintings which is really which is really just fantastic and they're I encourage everybody to check them out they're so beautiful they're so colorful and yeah they really just are so joyful and like move through the space really well it's a really great show thank you you know what I finished painting and when it got to the show, the first thing that I thought was, oh my gosh, I still have joy.

20:26I could see it, but it wasn't until it left my studio. I mean, it was, whoa. Until it got out of my studio, into that clean space, without the wrapping on them, that I could literally just wipe my brow. be and think, oh my gosh, because, you know, there's, well, this has been a very interesting year. And I say interesting, because that's the most innocuous word I can think of. It doesn't define anything. It's just, it's been a very tricky year for me. And I didn't know, I didn't know what was going to happen. And I am internally, I am a very joyful person. I feel very fortunate to do what I get to do.

21:17And, you know, and I can slip in. I mean, I worked like, I don't know the last day I've had a day off. The last, I should say, I don't know the last day off that I've taken, honestly. And so I'm not sure how that translates. You know, it's like a lost sight. And I kept, I would have these moments where something would come through. And like, I don't know did you see the painting with the bonsai and the legs behind it yes oh my gosh it's it's great so thanks so that was basically a self-portrait but I was thinking about that painting on the way over here because I was thinking you know that's actually not that is not really a self-portrait it's it's a portrait that anyone can see themselves in yeah everyone hides behind that's a bonsai because I went to Japan and if I could move back tomorrow, I would.

22:16But it was kind of this murky blob of a person. You see the feet and the feet are actually walking almost like Egyptian feet. You know, they're moving.

22:30Liz McCarthy:But they're also very kind of stylized, comical pink legs and feet that are coming out of the base of this tree. that you would think in some instances, like, is that the trunk of the tree? Is like, what's going on? So there's definitely a humor in all of your work. No, I'm glad because I have like a little bit, well, we have a couple of things in my family. Number one, we have a little, there's a little depressive side that my father calls purple curtains and violins. So there's always that. that. But then I have kind of a sick sense of humor. And I can totally go down the dirty road for sure.

23:19But I don't know. I just think it's kind of like Lucille Ball humor. You know, it's just like if somebody trips and falls, I mean bless my girlfriend's heart, but I can still picture I have this friend who I adore in Athens and she fell down one day and we had our children were little and we were going for tacos and she had this big skirt on and the thing freaking blew up like a mushroom and she was wearing some espadrilles which are so southern when I say this it's like she had a skirt and espadrilles and she busted going to the taco and I I she still kills me over this that I've bent over and I laughed so hard as my poor girlfriend.

24:05I mean, she wasn't hurt. She would have been, you know, she, she yelled, but she wasn't in agony or anything. But so I am like bad. Like I laugh at funerals. I mean, everything to me gets to be funny. It's terrible. It's terrible. This whole pew will shake, you know, like everybody will look and it'll be me. It's like, I have these crazy, you could explain something in my mind. Like I am making the picture of what you're explaining to me all at the same time. Your visual mind is just really rampant. Oh, 100%. I love that. Like a picture just comes. And most of the time it's like, oh, that somebody's pants will be around their ankles.

24:49I mean, it's just, there's something that happens to me. I don't know who that came from. I mean, both my parents are kind of funny in their own way, but not, I don't know, sick. sick humor or something. But I'm glad you could see that because nothing is that serious. Let's be honest. We're here on this earth. There's so much tragedy. We have to have levity in humor and we have to find our joy. And that sounds so, you know, like I just snatched it off of Instagram, finding your joy, you know, deep thought. I always say this when I go to India and I've tried to have explained this to the people that I work with, but I always use that.

25:30Did y 'all ever watch Saturday Night Live when they would say deep thoughts by Jack Handy? And I will literally say that and they, now they laugh because they understand, but like deep thoughts. And it's because like, I'll say something that I think is really deep, but then it's so ridiculous. I'm like, oh God, you know, that's an eye roll. I don't know if anybody can see this podcast, but there's a lot of eye rolling going on to myself anyway okay I'm sure I'm off track just keep going I'll try to get back on the street well I do want to talk about the Garnet Hill like partnership because it is we we mentioned like it's a I think it's 20 years old and I think it may be more than maybe more okay more but 20 plus something it's been a long partnership but how did it come about initially like oh well we used to we used to sell them product before they made it so we made these amazing tote bags which i'm still obsessed with and i wish i could find some ebay they come up ebay susan but okay put the search on yeah yeah they come up it's funny notification yeah and okay so i actually i remember you saying you wanted a bushel and I'm supposed to ask for you so I've got to remember to do that okay I've got a few in my house but I don't know she's got these great laundry baskets in her house and I was like that is I need one of those okay so you first started out as a vendor so we started out as a vendor my sister had worked for Kate Spade they were friends of ours and she Catherine developed their whole Japanese business.

27:19Oh, wow. And so she is always she's a salesperson extraordinaire. That's her. I mean, that's her bag. And so she did that for a showroom in New York. And Kate Spade was one of the brands. And so she developed that whole program. And so she actually knew people new buyers in the industry so she just picked up the phone like we usually and we still do that we pick up the phone I've always called people like when I felt back into a corner you know I'll call and the rule now is ask for what you need and literally it has worked because even if they say no you've at least asked and if that road is not available to you you know than to take another path.

28:10You know what I'm saying? It's like, if you sit there and just do on things, you'll never, I mean, it goes for most everything in life. We just have to, and that's a difficult thing oftentimes for Southerners. Southern women is saying what we really need or asking for help. Right. So I've had to, I've had to just do it, you know, and when it's come to my business, so interesting when it comes to my business, I've been able to ask more clearly and more focused than I probably would if it was asking something for myself so anyway um so that's how we started with Garnet Hill and then we just became part of the family and we then started making we actually made Christmas stockings for Barneys and Bergdorf Goodman and then when they had run their course because as things do um we did some for neiman's and then we went to garnet hill and we knew that it was time because they obviously have that category that whole christmas christmas is a huge category i'm sure yeah yeah as well obviously yeah yeah and so it really worked because you know just like the legs and the painting I I could I can try to paint um like an impressionist but that's at the end of the day that's just not how my people come out you know they're a little funny and realistic but then not yeah your collaboration with them was definitely was way before people you know now every brand has collaborators and brand partnerships but this was really kind of a a new thing when you were doing it what were some early kind of learnings you've had and favorite or favorite products and oh my gosh well you know we started making bedding for them and oh we have literally done you name it we've tried it we have made I mean this was back in the day when Garnet Hill was in Franconia and there is one light at the cross at one four a four stop is that what y 'all would call that and the time yeah the four-way stop one tiny little town and um i i did get to go there a few times it was really special but they had brought in a designer who you know i've been through oh gosh i don't even know how many many how many designers that have passed through those doors, but, you know, some better fits than others, obviously.

31:10And this guy, I think I had made cactus sheets. And, you know, they were so cute. But I just don't think people and even in the textile world, people don't want to sleep under a thorn or a cactus. Shocking. But you know, they were so cute. But you know, doesn't like a saguaro cactus with the arms, you know no nobody's interested actually people have been asking me at those paintings saying those bonsai are cactus i'm like no no no that's a bonsai um but yeah cactus and thorns maybe it's the texas in you i don't know the victorians the victorians i did a painted surface one time of this thorn pattern was that was a total trend in the victorian times but of course it went out of style because of the pointy thorns.

32:07So I studied all about that. So oftentimes when I'm making textiles, I think you had asked this before and I just went straight past it, but if I haven't been somewhere that I could reference, I have a library that I've created. Because when I left New York, I mean, we used to go to the New York Public Library and back in those days you could research and then make photocopies and then I had a whole file cabinet of tears yeah right and I still have a few of those tears I just you know just couldn't stop using them but um I when I moved to Athens which actually turned out to be probably one of the best moves for my artistic life.

32:57I just have collected books every time I go on a trip or see something, some show that's happening that maybe I'm not going to be able to make it to. I just want to support the artist. Or learn about a country. And even garage sales and estate sales, I love. There was a professor from UGA that had the most, he lived in Japan half the time. And he had the most incredible library. And, of course, most of the books went to the school, but I was able to buy some. And those things are out of print. And I have a couple of friends who have the same love for books like this, and I'll photograph them. And then oftentimes if they're out of print, I'll just go on the used books.

33:46I don't mind if they're marked on or torn. I just kind of think it shows this, that they've been used. So I still love physical books. I don't really love the internet for that. I mean, if you have to, you have to. Yeah. But I think there's a Harvard has this, I want to say, it may be an Emily Dickinson pressed flower library. Anyway, there are things that you can find online that would never be a published book. So it's worth digging just to see what's out there. But typically, I just go back to my books. Your library. And then I learn. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I learn about the culture, which I think is then important.

34:36Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Tell everyone about your move to Athens. We just shot your house tour, which they can watch on our YouTube channel. but it was not necessarily planned oh right my husband bought my house my husband bought the house without telling me he was going to buy a house it wasn't even and we weren't even looking even live there no and it was a town that was a plane ride away that had no body of water or mountain to go hike so what was it about Athens that drew him there where were you living before

35:12Liz McCarthy:So we were in New York. I had a woman who worked for me named Lucy. She's Lucy Allen Gillis. She lives in Athens. She has a sister-in-law that lives here in Atlanta. And then her sister, Wren, is a fine art photographer. And at the time, we hadn't even started photographing. I mean, we were so new, and Lucy was doing PR for us. Really, she was doing many things for us, but she would help with samples. So I said we didn't have a PR person, but I would say that Lucy was a jack-of-all-trades. We kind of really only hired jack-of-all-trades types of people. We were, so we were like, we need people that were like octopuses.

36:05I mean, or octopi. They're both correct. Yeah. Are they? I think so. Oh, thanks for that. Sure. I'll be your grandma girl. Hey, I'll take it. Because oftentimes my husband will correct me and it makes me give him an eye roll, but I know it's out of love because he's such a wordsmith. But anyway, he bought the house because we started going there for photo shoots. To work with Wren. to work with Wren. She came to New York a few times, but then we were like, wait a second, we're not, we may live here. And yes, we are New Yorkers in quotation marks, but our brand is not. Our brand is, our brand can live in many different types of homes and we just didn't want it to feel slick and maybe hard.

37:00And often the flowers would be blooming in Athens when it would still be icy in New York. So we could ship things down. But we went down and the first time and I had my sweet two-year-old, if y 'all can imagine. It was warm, actually it was hot. We were in a moving van. We had upholstered all kinds of furniture and all of these different people in town had offered for us to do a photo shoot at their house. The back door's open or I'll be at the grocery store. Don't worry about me. You know, I mean, literally that easy. And when I had something in New York, it would be, okay, that's a$1 ,500 fee for two hours in my apartment.

37:44So we just knew, you know, we knew what we could do and what we couldn't. So I kept having these experiences, these fabulous experiences, really great, interesting people flying in, flying out, living there part time. I had this big idea that I could live in two places. Well, if I were a rock star, maybe, you know, or if I was a traveling, like a commercial photographer, maybe, but that wasn't the situation. But anyway, it didn't stop Pete from going there after I had been going on about this place and how wonderful the people were. And oh my gosh, this couple came in from LA and they're living half in Athens and half in LA.

38:32And oh, these are half in New York and half in Athens. So it wasn't that odd. But then when he actually bought the house, I was just kind of like, okay. But then I thought, how are we going to do this? you know anyway I didn't think about it too much I had a tiny baby I had maybe at that point no yeah at that point I had just had my second child so I wasn't really focused on what he was doing I was just like okay sure that sounds great you know but yeah questioning the whole thing so we wound up renovating it I mean literally stripping it down to studs pull lifting it up on jacks re-pouring the foundation, building this thing.

39:18And then the bottom fell out of the market. 2008 came. And so we chose to move in 2009. You know, we just thought things are just, I mean, we lived next door to the stock exchange, so it just was a really ugly time. And it was so immediate for us. We always say the rest of the world didn't have to catch on, thankfully, for at least six to eight months. But it was just, you couldn't get away from it. And so this house then became a refuge and an option. And it's spectacular. And I'm shocked by how little you've changed or so many things that you picked at this point almost 20 years ago that, you know, wall colors and lights and, and that's true.

40:13I haven't really thought about that. You've made really enduring choices, I guess. Oh, thanks. I always say that's probably my grandmother because she, I do have this, a little bit of the old lady touch. My sister's more of a modernist than I am. And most people can't believe that when I tell them, but I do. There's something about and not really traditional that just sounds tired to me but um I mean I love an antique I love a patina but I do love modern things so I'm I live in a mix yeah you know I'm a big I'm a big believer in just buy the things that you love and live with them and then a coat of paint is a coat to paint and reupholstery is always an option and now my back porch is an incredible homage to ballard seriously you got a porch swing in back there my daughter came home from college yesterday and she said this is where i'm going to be every single day she's a big reader wonderful and she I mean, she got up in there and she said, hmm, I may need a few blankets.

41:30And she was just, well, she also loved the umbrella. Of course, yeah. She said, Mom, that is so wonderful. And now my roses are so full and they're this intense red. And I have that darling parasol that's the white and green with the scalloped edge. It's just so sweet. It's like a carnival ride, you know? It is its own kind of fun party happening. Well, you have an absolutely gorgeous, you know, yard and garden. Thanks. Lots of roses. We were there on a beautiful April day, and so we got to capture it in all its glory. And I'm sure our listeners will not be surprised. You have an incredible art collection of things you've done, other artists, your travels.

42:22Even student art. Student art. So tell us about how you're, you know, your kind of philosophy on art. Do you move stuff around? Do you keep it in the same place? How do you know what to buy? That's a good question. Well, you know, art is, is from the heart, truly. And my husband and I have different tastes in art. I mean, we both totally respect each other's viewpoint. I do have a big painting that is by a friend of mine that I don't think is his favorite. There's a lot of pink on it. but you know sometimes those things happen um he you know he may have some of his own favorites and I have mine but we do come together and we've bought things together um also but I am also like I said I'm a believer in buying things that you're that speak to your heart so I have student art from UGA shows.

43:21And also I had some, you know, kids in New York and I bought art from them. I'm sure I paid their rent for the month, you know, and I also sold paintings when I was in college. And I remember how impactful that felt. It was scary. I did a commission for a friend of my mother's and it was a huge canvas and that was terrifying to deliver it because she really trusted me and she still has that in her bedroom and she talks about it constantly and she wants she built a room around it I mean I'm telling y 'all it's it's a magical that's a wonderful feeling so in my own home I I have sculpture I love sculpture because I love to make sculpture I love photography and I love painting I love well there's really no rule and I kind of feel like that's how you should build a collection if it's all just strikes you at a certain time and sometimes you do need to go home and sleep on it I'm a believer in that too if it's expensive you know I do think there's a you know you don't have to just buy spontan like be the spontaneous human I mean that's fun too but you can make a mistake yeah I think that's what I I struggle with and I'm sure some of our listeners it's easy to know something that you like but it's hard to know okay am I gonna like this for a long time or am I gonna or am I just liking it right now in the moment because of it's a beautiful day and I'm on a trip or I, you know, happen to like orange right now.