Ep. 471: Timeless Kitchen Design with Cyndy Cantley

22:50Liz Toombs:Now, if someone likes their sink there or we have people that like their cooktop there because they want to talk to people, then I think that's great. Right. Well, that's what I was going to ask, because it does seem as though, I hate to say trend, but maybe the ideal for some people would be to have the sink in the island so that they could then look out into the rest of the room. Yeah. And so I think many people would be thinking, oh, I thought that that was like what I should be doing. So I just was curious what your reasoning was. There is no right or wrong. There's not. And I think some of it may be, I mean, if you have young kids, I mean, you might want that so that you can keep it on while you're prepping and washing and cleaning up.

23:34But then a lot of people are like, well, I can't imagine not looking out the window when I'm at my sink. So every kitchen I do is different. And I've done this forever and I'm good at what I do. But in the end, it's their kitchen. And if they want their sink on the island, it's fine.

23:50Liz Toombs:Yeah. Well, but it's just nice to consider, like, what are the pros and cons? There's no right or wrong. had it. There is no right or wrong. I probably should not have said it that way. But to me, a perfect kitchen workspace is nothing on an island. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you have years of experience. You're allowed to have your own personal opinion. Because I think a lot of people do have a strong opinion on kitchen because of the way they know they function. Or like, I am that person who was like, if I don't have a window over my sink, like. Exactly. Right. So I. Phobia. Yeah. Right. But also, I mean, you only know what you've had.

24:30Liz Toombs:And so if you haven't had it in the sink and you think, oh, that's what I need. Or I'm sorry. Yeah. You haven't had the sink in the island and you think that's what, you know, everyone is doing. Therefore, I need to do. Yeah. You might do it without really realizing what the. Yeah. You know, the pros and cons are, I guess. Yeah. I'm going to say. A hundred percent. I think that's why that conversation is good because it could. She could have said, I love it. And here's why. So I think having that, you know, big piece of stone usually, too, is so beautiful. Yeah. Okay, you were also talking about the step stools and all the other.

25:03Liz Toombs:Let's talk about some other, like, weird ones, nuancy ones. I've seen it. Yeah. Do a lot of people do, like, the dog bowl pullout? Yes, we do. But, you know, you have to talk about how the dog eats because you don't want it pulled down all the time. Yeah. Because a lot of times we'll do them on the end of an island and people will probably fall over it. Or if the dog grazes, you know, but if you feed the dog and they only have one dog, then it's great. And the dog eats when you feed him. But if it needs to stay rolled out all day long, and typically the water's next to it. Yeah. I know that's a good one all the time.

25:35It just depends on, you know, if they can go in a laundry room, I think that's great. Yeah. I like them. I think it's good.

25:43Liz Toombs:I've seen some people do the, it's like an inset cubby. Oh, yeah. Where it doesn't pull out. With a faucet in there? With a faucet, yeah. It's just money. Yeah, yeah. We've done it, and they're cool, and we always zoom in when we photograph it. Yeah. Well, would you do the cubby instead of a pullout? That seems like it would be much. Maybe, yeah. And you're going to have scraps of marble left over. I mean, if nothing else, your sink cutout would fit in there. Because you want it to be up to clean. You wouldn't want that to be wood. Right. Right. Yeah, not a drill. Keep going, dog bowls. I was going to say, have you seen any cool ones?

26:20Because my other one was step stool, like where it like pulls out and it's like a ladder. I keep seeing that one. Is that? Yeah. Have you seen this? I have. It's so specific. And I've seen them like that fit down in the toe kick, but it only comes up about a foot. And I feel like women, if we need a ladder in there, you need a step stool. Oh, I need to get to the tall upper. Yeah. Right. I'd rather do a tall cabinet with a huge tray divider in it and slide a step stool in there. where you have it and it has a handle on it and you can... You pull out yours, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense, though.

26:53Liz Toombs:Well, you think about the age where your kids need a stepstool. I mean, I suppose it is like, what, seven or eight years, but you're hopefully designing your kitchen for more like 20. Yeah, definitely. I don't think the kids need the stepstools for nearly as long as we think that they do when they're little. Well, I will say I agree. I think Karen talked me into getting the touch faucet, which I like for that reason, because it's easier for my kids to reach the faucet than the handle. Right. So they it's totally makes sense for many reasons. Some people hate it, though. So as long as it works, it's great.

27:36Liz Toombs:Yeah. I mean, I like it. But what about what about I've seen hidden drawers in the toe kick? Yeah. Is that helpful or is that just something that's going to get stuck and I'm never going to get it open? I don't we I mean, over the years, we've had people ask us to do that. It's very small. Yeah. Literally, it's probably not more than, you know, where they want to hide things in there. And I'm like, I'm not sure what they're hiding or I don't know. Yeah. OK. Money, drugs. I don't know. It wouldn't be enough silver for me. If you don't know, you don't need to ask her. What is it? I know. I'm so not that way.

28:18Okay. I know. I mean, it'd be great for, you know, things like that. But it's just almost not even deep enough for even that. Because you're adding a very shallow drawer. You start setting your jewelry in there. You're never going to wear the jewelry. Because if it's a four-inch toe kick, and then you need clearance for the actual functionality of it, you've got yourself down to three inches. Yeah.

28:40Liz Toombs:Maybe. Yeah. Okay. What about like plates and glassware in the drawer versus the cabinet? We've gotten to where we do so, you know, we do less wall cabinets now, so they have to go somewhere. So I think it works. Yeah. I mean, I don't have a problem with that. I try to do, I love dish cabinets, you know, where you have floor to ceiling and you can swing that open and you can reach women can reach so much more of that than a you know typically a wall cabinet you can reach the first two shelves and that's it so if you have tall cabinets it it looks nice and it holds everything and you can see it like a solid cabinet but top to bottom and if yeah and not necessarily 24 deep if you do it 24 deep then you then you gotta buy rollouts for all the way up and that gets pricey and so you can do it i I mean, a wall cabinet is 12 deep, so I would, you know, 15 or 18.

29:32Okay.

29:33Liz Toombs:Yeah, that makes sense. And that way you're fitting like basically one plate deep. Yeah. You know, without, yeah. Okay. That's a good one. You don't lose anything in there. You can see it, get it. And your whole set of China is right there. Right. Yeah. That's smart. So what do you think about the absence of wall cabinets? I kind of like it. But I think it just cleans it up and it's not so cookie cutter, buildery looking where they're just lined around the room. But, I mean, it is a kitchen and it has you have to you have to be able to get those tall cabinets somewhere. Yeah. You know, I love like the little back kitchens that are so popular.

30:08Like a scullery. But the most, you know, mainly what we do is remodeling because it's older. Birmingham's an older city. It's like here. And we don't have big kitchens and people are accustomed to that. And they want so much out of their kitchen. And I do occasionally have to remind them that I'm not a magician. You know, unless we're knocking the back wall of the house out, it is what it is. But we can always make it better. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, what about coffee and appliance cabinets? And those kind of, I feel like those have become really special. I kind of love those because it gets all that stuff off the counter.

30:44And you have doors, pocket doors or folding doors, and you can close it and you don't see it. And so is that a wall cabinet? Is that like a...

30:53Liz Toombs:There are so many different mechanisms. Yeah, like the ways to do it. There's like the hydraulic kind of like lift where a door just kind of comes up. Yes. There's, yeah, the pocket doors or just swing open doors. Am I missing anything? By fold. Okay. It just depends on how wide it is, how many appliances you want in there. And which type of doors do you like the best? I mean, the most practical would be just swing open and use it and then close them. Pocket doors are a little finicky. You have to be careful with them. You know, if something's going to break in your kitchen, it's probably going to be a pocket door at some point.

31:30I got a pocket door. I feel that. I feel it just feels like it's like if it's going to break, it's going to be this. I mean, you literally have to be careful. It's a huge mechanism thing. So it opens and slides in? Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's terribly expensive hardware. It's hard to repair. See, things I didn't know. Yeah. Okay. And I shut it. I do shut it when I'm done with coffee. You shut it every day. Yeah. Mine's not a beautiful, mine's just not beautiful. Mine's my toaster and my. It's not going to be. Unless you're doing a photo shoot, it's not going to be. And what you see published is it's styled for that.

32:06Right. Yes. It's like all matching mugs and a perfect little. No, mine is my coffee's shoved in there. All my, oh, my like sentimental mugs that I'm like, oh, I can't get rid of this. but it doesn't match, you know? Once your kids make. Yes, exactly. Those are shoved in there, and so I don't want people to see it. So anyway, that's why I went pocket doors. I could have probably come, I probably could have just done doors. Well, they're in the way, though, because it's usually a pretty big cabinet. So that's, it kind of depends on where it is in your kitchen. That's true. It is nice because I do push it back, and if, like, people are in town, then it is, like, I just leave it open so everyone can get their coffee.

32:44It's fun to do it. We've even done it where there's doors behind the doors, you know, where we'll do the inside and walnut or we'll do the inside. And we did one. I think it was a Sherwin-Williams color Tutti Frutti. That was so fun and unexpected when you opened it, like just hot pink. I mean, I love that. That's so fun. It was fun. Oh, that's fun, Liz. Do that. A little hidden, like, fun gem of color. I love that. Because people don't expect it and it's just fun. Or you can wallpaper the back or you can, you know, it's just fun to do things like that with cabinets. Talk to us about height.

33:21Liz Toombs:Do you always go to the ceiling? Are there certain ceiling heights that is too crazy? What's kind of your thought process there? I mean, probably most of the houses we do are nine-foot ceilings, and we did go to the ceiling with that. Tin, you can push it a little bit for that. You can only make doors so tall or you start having problems with them warping because they're not as thick as interior doors. and with insect cabinets, they, you know, start moving and they don't fit flush inside the cabinet anymore. But then, you know, people will build new houses with 11, 12-foot ceilings and it's just money.

33:58I mean, you can't reach it. They want them all the way. I mean, and people tend to not want, they want them to go all the way up because it's dusty. So we'll do them all the way up. They're paying for two cabinets around the entire room. A lot of times we'll add the ladders, the rolling ladders, and it's just money.

34:16Liz Toombs:Okay, the rolling ladder, I don't understand. Because in my mind, I'm like, it looks beautiful, but it's always the way. So you've got to move. So, you know, you already are having to open all the doors to get to whatever you're wanting. But now you've got to move a ladder. And you didn't open the door. It just seems crazy. You still need two people because you've got to hand them whatever you're getting out. Yeah, that's right. I know. Yeah, that's true. You've got to climb down the ladder with the platters. Yeah, I can speak from experience on that. But it looks good. Yeah. Mine go 10 feet. Are they 10?

34:46So the ones over my fridge, again, like I can't, I can't, I'm on the ladder with my big platters or whatever. I have to pass them to someone. So she is correct. There's no, otherwise I have to get down my rickety, yeah, like my little step stool. I mean storage and you can definitely put the china, like Christmas china. Oh, yeah. Mine's like anytime I'm having a party. It's like it is, I'm up there for a reason. But it is something to think about. Yeah, you're not putting your day-to-day stuff up there. Right, no.

35:13Liz Toombs:Like the ladder, having to move it all the time, that's like... I do have to move the ladder in and out. I'd probably use my ladder once a day. But it's not a fixed ladder. Nope, it's a step stool ladder. Front gate ladder. Right, right, right, right, right. It's not a rolling ladder. But you pull the ladder out once a day? Every day? Probably. For something up there. Around my house? Just all my 10 foot. You know, it's like any cabinetry. if I'm getting games down, watering a plant in the other room on the bookcase. Like, I use my stepstool a lot. No, I do, too. I mean, but not necessarily in my kitchen, though.

35:48Liz Toombs:Yeah, every—yeah. Not every day. You're right. You're right. No. I mean, I would think that most of the stuff you're using daily is— Everybody lives—yeah. Yeah. No, it's like refilling the spice drawer. If anything's out, the excess is up in a taller cabinet. See? Gotcha. Your backstock. My backstock. Your backstock. Yeah. And they only last for about two years if they're not in your freezer, so. Oh, the big spices. Yeah. Good to know. Gotta shift the back stuff. Gotta shift the back stuff. Need to go through them, but don't come eat at my house. I gotta look at some dates. No, I'm kidding. There's not that much.

36:20Liz Toombs:Okay, should we move on to appliances? Are there any? Oh, I want to go to countertops. Okay, yes. We didn't talk hardware either, though. Oh, okay. On the doors. Hold on. We didn't. And appliance cabinet, I do want to talk one last cabinet. Yeah, yeah. Sweet. Well, yeah, that'll lead us to appliances. Let's do that. That would be a great route. Okay, good. Microwaves. Okay. Put them behind the doors in that appliance cabinet. Really? On a shelf. Okay. It breaks in five years, throw it away, and put a new one in. I mean, microwave drawers are—a lot of people haven't loved their microwave drawers.

36:53Do y 'all have them?

36:54Liz Toombs:No. There's something weird to me about putting food down in. I don't know. I tried it one time at, like, this rental house, and I was like, oh, God, it's so awkward to, like— It's a little awkward. You can place your food down in the drawer and then— It's awkward to clean when the butter blows up in there, too. It takes forever for the drawer. I mean, here's the thing. You want a microwave for speed and the drawer comes out at like— Yeah. And goes back in. It's like— The same way. You know what I mean? So I'm like, I'm using a microwave for speed, but it takes five to ten seconds just to open.

37:26Liz Toombs:Well, that's because it can't go at more speed. Your food just slide off the plate. That's what's holy. But so if it's about speed, then why— Fair enough. Fair enough. No, I hear what you're saying. I'm microwaving for speed. And I think the one thing I, okay, y 'all, I'm saying this as someone who doesn't even own any microwave. You don't own a microwave? I don't own a microwave, yes. But the thing that I want a microwave for is a cup of coffee. So something about putting the cup of coffee in a drawer down and like liquids down in it, I don't know. I don't like it. Okay. I don't want to put a bowl of soup down in a drawer and then shut it.

37:59Knocking that off the list. Not getting that. I have an old one. They're like$2 ,000. I mean, a good microwave's$200 or$300. Yeah. I was going to say, we have an old microwave behind a cabinet. Yeah. Ours is under the kitchen island. Like, it's two doors on the kitchen island. It's other storage. And we used to always put them in an island where you couldn't see them. I never liked to see them. So I would put them on the backside of the island. We'd just leave an opening with the bead around it. So it's somewhat built in, but not really. And it just sits right there. And then we started doing the appliance cabinet.

38:32So now it sits on the eye level up there. The coffee's down below. So coffee's down below, microwaves up top. And then whatever else you need in there. Whatever else you use often. The toaster, kitchen egg, whatever. Fry daddy. The fry daddy. Yeah.

38:46Liz Toombs:You've been hot. Margarita mixer. Oh, yeah. Margarita mixer. Got to keep that up top. Margaritaville. Don't let me talk you out of a microwave drawer if that's what your heart's at. No, no, no. No, my heart is not set on a microwave door at all. I actually really don't like to see the microwave. And in the first iteration drawings, my architect had an open cabinet next to the stove. And I was just like, I don't want to see it. I don't even want to see it. No, because that's usually the prettiest part of the kitchen. That's like, yeah. So we're either talking appliance cabinet above the coffee, like you recommended, or we are talking in the pantry.

39:30Yes. And putting it in the pantry. And a lot of that just depends on how often you use it. And that's another of those questions I have to ask. You know, and most people don't use them. They heat their coffee. Or if the husband's like, why use it 10 times a day to eat my coffee? I don't want it in the pantry. And you're like, okay, then we'll put it here. Yeah, that's pretty much the discussion we're at right now. Yeah. It's like, I don't want the pantry to just smell like popcorn. It's like, well, don't make popcorn.

39:53Liz Toombs:Well, but I don't know. It's either that or the kitchen's going to smell like popcorn. popcorn right popcorn is the smell popcorn is if you're making popcorn so popcorn's a delicious smell if we're really gonna fight smells it's it's the microwave fish unless you burn the popcorn ah that's true burned popcorn is bad yeah sorry yeah i think that that's where that honestly burnt popcorn is is the and it is the tipping point on whether or not we keep it in the pantry you or not. I love this for you. Offices have like a no popcorn popping policies. What? Corporate world. Yeah. We had a no fish around here back in the day.

40:31Yeah. I, yeah. There was one person who microwaved fish too often. That should be a lot. No, I called her out. I did. I sent an email to the whole office. That's bad. That's me typing. Heaven forbid someone's pregnant. Oh my gosh. They would have not been okay. Yeah. Okay, so appliances oh yeah what else well we've scooted to appliances so built-in appliances what are your what with appliances are yes no must do um i think that's a personal preference thing i mean i don't drink coffee so i don't push built-in coffee makers we just put one in our house maybe a month ago my husband loves it um he was in coffee maker okay that was like the Or the espresso thing that is in the wall.

41:20It does all kind of frost the milk and everything. And this man drank one cup of coffee a day Keurig. Now he drinks coffee all day long. I would too. All his fancy coffees and all his different beans he has now. It's within a month we've created this hilarious monster. But it looks nice and I'm good with it.

41:41Liz Toombs:What about like if you are going to do the drawer front appliances? Are there certain ones that you think are no-brainers, have to do it, some that you could give or take? You mean like a warming drawer or? No, like, you know, like the cabinet front fridge. Oh, yeah. Dishwasher. Yeah, yeah. We typically do wood panels on them. On all of them. Yes. Okay. If they buy the correct appliances. Okay. Yes. you don't want to buy and unfortunately it's it's the expensive appliances that build in the nicest um but if you don't do that it just looks like you've stuck a door on the front of something it's not you're not fooling anyone that it's not the refrigerator or even the dishwasher yeah but like the sub-zeros the columns i mean they vent through the toe kick now they don't have the grill at the top at all and it's they they build in beautifully yeah because they used to have the grill at the top.

42:38Yes. So you could always tell. You're right. Yeah. And for years, we stuck doors on them and thought we were cool and hiding in the refrigerator with the big, you know,

42:47Liz Toombs:three or four foot grill running across the top. And they do still make those and if people get the stainless. And I like that look. I mean, it's an industrial look. It's if you want that look. Yeah. Right. It's just different looks. It seems like the dishwasher is very cost effective to do the drawer front or the cabinet front. They call it panel ready. Yeah, panel ready. Thank you. I was like, that's not the right word. Yeah. But in the fridge, it's like a whole just certain fridges do it. Whereas dishwashers, it's almost more. They're a lot more options. It's almost right in terms of the appearance.

43:21And it depends on where it is in the room. If you don't see it, then don't do it. I mean, it's one of those things. And your dishwasher is going to break probably before you redo your kitchen again. You need to find. You got to match the paint. Hopefully, the cabinet people are still in business and can make you a new door. to get your new dishwasher. So there's some pros and cons to it. Yeah. It seems like that would be one of the things that your eyes stop seeing. If you don't do a panel on the front of the dishwasher, that you just kind of keep looking past it because you expect a dishwasher to be there.

43:56Yeah. Yeah. Yes. We're looking at the drawer dishwasher because we're just, we're going to be a small two-person house in just a couple months yeah and so you know what

44:10Liz Toombs:i had that um in like a apartment that i was in had an eight it's not 18 is it a 20 inch dishwasher the skinny there's an 18 or maybe an 18 bosch and it was amazing but those are great like anyway so i kind of liked having the little one because you're cute you fill it up every single day and you just run it every single day. Right. Whereas if you're two people, it might take you three or four days to fill up like a full size dishwasher. I don't know why we can fill ours up and we fill it till cafe's on. It's all that coffee. It's all that coffee now. Wine glasses and coffee mugs. Wine and coffee.

44:49Liz Toombs:Just keep filling it up. I don't know. I'm sure we could. But for the record, I just was like wow this is such a small dishwasher but it runs so well and it fits so much like way more than i expected anyway all right did you have any other dishwasher questions no i'm gonna ask questions no i don't think ranges anything you hate love on ranges i love ranges again because we do so much remodeling in smaller older homes um or smaller kitchens and older homes and they take up less room yeah but a lot of people you know every now and then people balk about i don't want to lean over so it's and if they don't they don't you know we'll find somewhere and it also keeps it very symmetrical i mean it just things lay out well with when you don't have a stack of ovens you know right like the hood with the range like it's yeah yeah okay that is really nice um how about the option of wi-fi turn on for all these appliances i don't understand that but i'm probably too old to ask that question too i don't know why i don't need to turn my oven on for my a car has the food been in the oven since i left for work that morning i don't i don't know yeah yeah i don't get okay i just wanted to ask no i know i would only work for people i think with ocd of like is it off yeah yeah right that's that's pretty much what that's for is to turn it off you can't turn for the most part i don't think that you can turn an oven on remotely remotely because of safety issues yeah for some reason i think you can but i don't know i don't i haven't paid enough attention to that because i'm just like i don't understand why anyone wants that i think more too about having a but i don't even understand teslas like my son was driving a tesla the other day like they told him to take it home for the day to see if he liked it which i can't believe they do that to a 20 something year old boy but um and and it was frightening to me to even be riding in there with him uh-huh and he's just sitting there like this you know just you know and you're like this is i don't know it just scared me yeah i can't try i barely used cruise control like i have to be in complete control when i'm driving yeah yeah yeah no yeah i can't do that either but okay so turning on the oven remotely i i thought that would be a good thing like if i was driving home and with my groceries and i was like oh preheat the oven Yeah.

47:10But no, my oven won't do it now.

47:13Liz Toombs:Yeah. What if you have a rack? Oh, wait, you have one now. Like you have a... Yeah, I have my oven hooked up to an app. Okay, okay. Yeah. But it won't let me turn it on remotely. I mean, that's probably a lot. Which is totally fine. What if someone hacked your oven and then completely put it on your oven? Oh, my goodness. I guess so. Oh, my gosh. The crazy people. True. Okay, y 'all, we got to move on. I know. Let's keep going. Countertops. Oh, no. Sorry. Oh, yes. I feel like countertops are, again, personal choice. But what are your favorites and what's trending? Yeah. Marble. Marble. Marble.

47:53Liz Toombs:And then certain etch, certain like sealants or something that any secrets to or just live and let live and etching. I think live and let live. And I mean, there's nothing prettier to me than old marble. I mean, you go to Europe and there's nothing more beautiful than that. I mean, it's hundreds of years old. It's a rock. It's not near as fragile as people think it is. And I have so many people that constantly, well, my builder said I shouldn't do marble. I'm like, does your builder have marble in this house? You know, I've had marble for almost 30 years in my house, and it ages beautifully. And chips are anything?

48:25And I'm not careful with it. It can chip. And there are a couple of chips. I mean, I have a chip in my bathroom, and I don't know how it got chipped in there. I mean, you understand it getting chipped around your sink or, you know, something. But it, I don't know. It's not like it's a different color underneath. It's real stone. It's. Yeah. Like, who cares? I know. It tells a story. Yeah. But there are people who can't live with that. And if they are, then, you know, I had someone tell me one time that her maid would quit if she got marble. And I'm like, okay. I mean, how do you even respond to that?

48:56It's like, well, let's not do marble.

48:58Liz Toombs:Any others that you like? Like, a lot of people love soapstone, which I think is really pretty. I do love soapstone. Or any other things that you feel like. I think it's very pretty. It's a little bit more maintenance than marble. Okay. One perk of marble now is we're getting into such crazy colors and movement with marbles, which I love. And you don't see it near as much on that. If you have a really white background, like Carrera or something like that, you're going to see a lot more stains and rings on it. Yeah. But I also, we've been in our house, I think, 17 years now, and I have a white Calcutta marble.

49:32And I'll clean it with Clorox, which makes stone people cringe. But, again, it's a rock. Yeah. And it's not. It gets so white again. And, okay. I don't know. What do you have, Taryn? I have quartz. I've been happy with it. Yeah. I mean, in the sense of, like, I don't worry about pot. I don't worry about anything. And I think having two boys plus a husband in the house, it felt like the right move for us. Yeah. Especially because I went green cabinets. So I wanted, it was pre-crazy, or the Good Stones, because I feel like I would have definitely gone crazier with the stone. Well, and now the Good Stones are crazy expensive.

50:09Yeah. I got a price back on a very normal-sized kitchen. It was three slabs, so that's not a huge kitchen. And that was the Rack Slashes, too. And it was$90 ,000. I mean, when they sent me the price, I was like, I can't even tell them this. I mean, countertops should not cost more than cabinets cost. So Marvel's gotten congratulations to you in your kitchen right now because I don't know what's going on with it. We did reselect and it got it down to about$50 ,000, which is still, I mean, countertops used to be$10 ,000. Well, they used to be$5 ,000 and then$10 ,000 and then maybe$15 ,000. Wow. Are people doing granite anymore for countertops?

50:50We've never done granite. I don't know why. We literally went from Corian to Marvel back in the day. I just didn't love it. It was very polka dotted. It was very busy. It was brown. That's all fair. Yeah. No, I did it and mine was very black. Yeah. It was pretty solid black. And there is some black now that looks a lot like soapstone that every now and then we'll do that just because it's so practical. You cannot hurt it. Soapstone, you have to oil it. You have to, when you oil it, it looks so pretty, but it marks. Okay. What is the most economical and beautiful stone? Asking for a friend.

51:33Liz Toombs:It depends on where you shop for it here. Yeah. I mean, it does. Like, would a, oh my gosh, what's the marble that's like, not Calcutta, but, oh my God, what's the other one that starts with a C? Carrera. Carrera, thank you. That's probably the least expensive. Okay. Like a Carrera marble. It's very gray background, which most people want a white background. Okay. Yeah. So if it goes with your... Do people often start with the countertop or are they picking the countertop? I always start with the countertop first. Because you can get any paint color. Yeah. I think you need to fall in love with the marble and pick your color from that.

52:10Mm-hmm. So I did do that opposite.

52:13Liz Toombs:What about doing the countertop and the island separate? Separate stones. like some people do like a butcher well like a dip like a butcher block on the island and uh or something some combination you know i feel like people did i think it's yeah i mean i think that's fine and we do the island a different wood or a different color or it it just it depends on what they want i don't have a strong opinion about it only time i do i love walnut i think it's such a pretty rich wood and we do natural walnut you just seal it and so it's just the prettiest color and it's all hand selected so the grains are pretty um but if they have a kitchen table in their kitchen then i wouldn't do that because you don't want the woods competing and yeah right i did do that as well we did the walnut in our back cabinetry and it's really pretty yeah walnut's pretty i don't know i don't know what price point but yeah it's pretty i don't either yet i'm i'm still in the dream phase yeah that's good yeah that's good it's all wonderful now.

53:17Liz Toombs:What about the, so how, if you were going to do the backsplash matching your countertop, is that basically doubling the amount of slabs you're getting or? It wouldn't double it, but it would, yeah. Okay. And sometimes we don't, you know, if people, and everyone's on a budget, I don't care what price house you're working in, there's always a budget. A lot of times you just have some left so you might as well use it or use it somewhere or you know if you have a kid's bath because you're either going to you're buying the slabs they're either going to put it in your basement for you they're going to take it back to their shop and they'll eventually sell it to someone who's doing a vanity or something you know it's so if you if you want to put it just behind the range if you have that much left over but your budget won't allow you to buy the rest of the room then put it there and then do tile everywhere else uh-huh it's fun to mix it it's It's a little more interesting.

54:16It's a good reminder, too. Like, what to do with the extra. I know. Use it. And is that a trend right now, too, is just running the countertop? It has been for probably about 10 years. We're just starting to do tile again, actually.

54:30Liz Toombs:Okay. I love the marble on the back. And I think, like, sometimes when things splatter on the backsplash, to me it seems easier to clean a solid piece of stone versus having those little grooves from the grout you know but i suppose it's not like yeah crazy but it just seems like when it's always that you know we always when we're laying out the slabs for the kitchen we always do the prettiest piece behind the range and then the second prettiest on the island and then we just fill in from there. Because one's horizontal and one's vertical. So do your vertical. That makes sense. Yeah. And in a perfect world, the veins match going up.

55:15You may have to buy another slab to do it that way. And that's something else kind of crazy too and that people don't realize that, you know, one person may say you need two slabs and their price is$10 ,000 less because they're piecing it all together. And when you get it in there, your veins all go in the different directions. and people, clients don't know that. So... Okay. Okay. So many good things to consider. Now I have more questions that I didn't came in with. Sorry. It's okay. I know we're almost out of time, but what about flooring? Like, what are people putting in there? Are they running the hardwoods?

55:48Usually hardwood. What we do is typically hardwood. Yeah. Okay. Because growing up, I feel like it was always, the kitchen was always tiled. Yeah, tile or laminate tile. Yeah. Yeah. It was always, it was a separate flooring in the kitchen. Yeah. It was like a... And really old houses had pine floors because it was cheaper, which is that opposite now. Pine costs more than oak now. So, yeah, I mean, even if it's old house and you start pulling it up and there's pine down there that hasn't been damaged over the years, then use it.

56:17Liz Toombs:Yeah. And I love painted floors. I think that's fine. It's not extremely durable, but it looks great. I love wood floors in the kitchen. I mean. It's easier to stand on. It's more forgiving if you drop something. And there are already so many, like, hard surfaces in the kitchen with all of your stone and your appliances and stuff that it's kind of nice to have that warmth. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Okay. What's next on your list, Erin? We did, I mean, we hit a lot. Oh, hardware. Yes. What is trending in hardware? Is it pulls, knobs? Or is there no trend? Just go stylistically. Like, yeah. I always do a combination.

56:59Okay. And I love back plates and I love, you know, we do truly pretend like we're still living in the south of France and do the little fake keys and do the tassel.

57:12Liz Toombs:Oh, I have a tall cabinet. Where would you put the fake key? Like, is that on, like, the China cabinet? Yeah. Okay, okay. Somewhere special. Not everywhere. You took the drawer. Yeah. No. Oh, that's sweet. Yeah, it is. If you're laying out your hardware in your kitchen, you're deciding between pulls and knobs, where would you put what? Like, are there certain applications that make more sense? Well, and I think, and there is no rhyme or reason to what I do, but for some reason on the top drawers, I always do knobs. And then the two drawers below, I'll do a pull. Oh, I love that. Okay. Okay. And we use those bouvet pulls forever, those drop pulls.

57:52And it was so funny. They kind of look like smiley faces for some reason.

57:56Liz Toombs:Like a... Not intended. Like a bend pull kind of? No, but I do like bend pulls too. So I'm with two plates and a swing. Oh, yes, yes, yes. With that sound. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the sound. I hate that sound. I don't know why. There's just something about it that I can just like hear it. Now, what about when the drawers are really wide and people do two knobs? You know what sound of the way up. I know exactly the sound you're talking about. Sorry, worse. Insert sound effect here. Yes. No, you're totally fine. No, you're totally, I hear the sound in my head. You're right. Imagine how, okay, Jean, you know that sound of the cabinet doors shutting?

58:38Liz Toombs:And like, think about all the sounds in the kitchen. I just, the idea of adding a knob with a sound makes me crazy. Oh, slow close hinges, speaking of. Right. That should be a must as well. Yes. As Caroline just said. Especially with inset cabinets because they close themselves. Right. Where before you had to go back and push them one more time. Mm. Yeah. Sorry. But I think I kind of have fun with hardware. I mean, I think it's that, I hate to say it, but the jewelry of the kitchen. But it kind of is. Yeah. And you can spend whatever you want on it. Yeah. But that is a wild price range. It is a wild price range.

59:14Yes. You can get real up there. Yes. Right. So, yeah, it's not unusual for appliance pulls to be not even anything real special.

59:23Liz Toombs:They're$300 to$600 a pull. Yeah. So it's. Wow. That is. Wow. So then if you do them on your, said from experience, I wanted it on the dishwasher as well. And then I was like, but then I got to buy a third one. Yeah. Oh, gosh. You got to buy the wood panel from the cabinet people and then the pull. I mean, it easily adds$1 ,000, probably$2 ,000 almost to the dishwasher. sure i think i do like a lot though hardware wise is when they change wherever the trash can is knowing that that is a yeah yeah i like that hardware being different because i visually need that cue it's the ones who really want it hidden where you are like hey so which one's your right yeah like i don't want to open all yours to find out where the trash can is which should be next to the sink okay i usually have a pull on it not a knob because it's used so much It needs to have a pull.

1:00:16Okay, see?

1:00:16Liz Toombs:Well, now all the dishwasher or the trash can cabinets are like the dishwasher size. Yes. So that is really confusing because you're like, wait, I see two. One's the dishwasher, one's the trash, but like which one's which? And the dishwasher is supposed to be on the left if you're right-handed. People always argue that with me. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Because you hold the dish in your left hand and rinse it or whatever, and then you don't switch hands to put it. Oh. Okay. I thought that is actually so right. But I thought about it. Everybody thinks it's supposed to be on the right. And if it's been on the right for 25 years, then keep it on the right.

1:00:50Liz Toombs:But, you know. Ah, yeah. But technically, if you're right-handed, the dishwasher gets on the left, the trash is on the right. Okay. Mine is made for me, then. Mine is the opposite. I'm left-handed and mine's the opposite. I don't know you're a lefty. Yeah. Yeah. But I never thought about it. For us, it really was, again, somebody drew it for us and we're like, here and here. And we're like, okay, yeah. No, most people think the opposite. I even have people argue with me and I tell them kitchen design one-on-one. I learned. You were like, I went to school for this. I can tell you. But if you want it that way, it's fine with me.

1:01:19And a lot of times they do keep it how it's been because it's just what you're accustomed to. We did an extra, you know, the size of my kitchen. It isn't petite, but it isn't large, large. But we did do a second garage or sorry, trash can. And it's just a single unit that I really liked because they're on opposite ends of the kitchen. Like the sink's over here and this one's over here. It's near where you enter the house. So like it's near the fridge and one's near the sink because you do want the sink one for sure. Yeah. So I don't know with your design list, but I will say that has been really.

1:01:55Other than taking out more trash. Yeah. Well, yeah, that too. One more trash bag. But they were going to we were going to fill up the other one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It kind of goes back to like the theory of like put your organization items where you actually are. Yeah. And, yeah. So that makes sense. Yeah, that's why that one makes sense. And kitchen, I mean, there's so much thought goes into a kitchen. It really, it's frightening what the things we dwell on and ask the questions we ask. And if two people cook, you know, you have to think differently. And because does, you know, someone might make a salad every night.

1:02:28The husband may make a salad. Not mine. But some of them do. Or, you know, they're grilling. And so you have a grill area for them to put their things. And then it's, or if you have kids and you want them to help you cook, then you think of different things.

1:02:45Liz Toombs:Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot to it. It's a lot to it. I mean, there's so many, like we started with, there's so many accoutrements, but also keep it simple, too. Yeah. I mean, but where is that balance? You can drive yourself crazy. Yeah. Yeah. You just have to think of, and I think so many people think of their life's going to be different in this new kitchen, and it's really not. I mean, it's, you know, we're going to redo the kitchen. and we're going to entertain every weekend. It's like, how often do you entertain now? And they're like, well, twice a year. And it's like, you're going to do that twice a year.

1:03:14Liz Toombs:Right, so don't design your kitchen for this dream self. Yes. Design for how you truly live. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, your life is not going to change that much. I mean, it's going to be prettier and you may have people over more, but you still need to design it for how you and your people live. Right. Yeah. That is really, really great advice. it does always seem to lead back to the same point every every wonderful descendant we talk to is like how do you live yeah who are you what are you into what do you gravitate towards you're not gonna be someone else in a new home yeah like you are who you are yeah yeah i know i'm just a great way to wrap up though you are who you are good luck i know i know we could probably talk for another hour.

1:04:04People love to talk about kitchens. It's so funny.

1:04:06Liz Toombs:It was very good timing on my part. I think you did. I think the kitchen again, though, it's the center of the home these days. It really is. And it's a huge investment. And it's your biggest investment. Yes. Yeah. You don't really realize how emotionally attached you are to certain things, too, until you start to redesign your kitchen. Yeah. What are your two biggest takeaways from this conversation? was um honestly keep it simple yeah especially with the cabinets um that's i keep getting my instagram feed is filled with all of these like fancy designs for kitchen cabinets and kitchen drawers and all these different places but as you were talking just keeping the functionality simple because once it gets off track or gets broken or you know little hands or whatever it is um it gets a lot of use yeah everything gets a lot of use that's usually how you can tell where the trash can is it's the cabinet that's yes your mom has all the chips yeah yeah yes it is that one it's always that one I know it's the most used cabinet in the kitchen it's the only one we ever usually have to go back and touch up how funny yeah now you know excellent this has been oh my gosh so thank you so much thanks y 'all thanks for making it easy we just talked I didn't I was completely unaware of any of this.

1:05:29That's good. That's what we like. That's what we like to hear.

1:05:32Liz Toombs:Okay, Cindy, tell everyone though where they can find you, follow you, and see your work. The Instagram account is Cantley Tolman and T-O-L-L-M-A-N. T-O-U-L-M-I-N. Oh, T-O-U. Sorry. Yes. Or just Cindy Cantley. Okay. Yeah. Cindy with a Y? Cindy with a Y. Well, two Ys. Yeah. C-Y and D-Y. All right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Thank you. And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog, howtodecorate.com slash podcast. To send in a decorating dilemma, email your questions to podcast at Ballarddesigns.net so we can help you with your space.

1:06:09And of course, be sure to follow us on social media at Ballard Designs. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback. Until next time. Happy decorating!