Ep. 479: Designing Homes that Evolve with Anne Hulcher Tollett

25:19Yeah. Okay. You mentioned, you know, moving past things that maybe aren't working anymore. Mm-hmm. And I think sometimes our room, you know, the needs we have for our rooms and our homes change. So is it a fair expectation to design your room, get it to a place you love and have that be it? Well, it's kind of like when I was saying one good color always goes with another color. One good piece of furniture always goes with another piece of furniture. Your taste and aesthetic is always evolving slightly, right? I always tell people to buy the best they can afford. So try to buy some of the anchor pieces, like a really great sofa.

26:06Try to buy the best you can afford that has the most timeless bones, especially if money is an object. Some people, money is no object. Other people, money is an object. So you're going to buy the best you can afford because that could be recovered or the pillows could be switched out. And, you know, we really do have long conversations with clients about how they're living today and how they're living tomorrow. And I'm now in the stage of my life where my girls are 18 and 19. And I'm like, unfortunately, newsflash, they're just as messy as a three and four year old. Like, no, don't tell us that.

26:39Sorry, not sorry. It's a it's a right. It's horrifying. I'm like, did y 'all really have to like eat your pizza on the sofa when that's a rule that and, you know, but anyway, so, you know, and but also let's be real. I mean, sometimes friends will accidentally spill a little bit of red wine or you're like eating like cookies or something and they just get a crumb. So you want to have a house that's forgiving. But I really do think about how are people living today? How are they living tomorrow? So I guess it's a long way to get to a ham sandwich. But I really am trying to figure out what are the best pieces because anything that's good, that really does have beautiful lines can always be repurposed.

27:15So let's say you've bought. And the other thing I'll always say is never buy the set, never buy the set ever but let's say you bought a beautiful side what about two nightstands two end tables two nightstands fine but then okay hold please okay if you do if you do two matching nightstands that's totally fine but maybe then you find two lamps that are like identical twins so they're not completely matching maybe they're a slightly different but they're like let's say they're a beautiful like chinoiserie almost the same then you can do matching shades and maybe right do you do that anywhere i did not notice that in your work you don't do a matching nightstand and a matching lamp i mean sometimes you can but i'm saying don't like in in any time you can try i have i have matched them before but also let's just say that sometimes the clients really like symmetry and to match but in a perfect world everyone listening it's really makes your house look so effortless and unstudied and well-traveled and gorgeous.

28:17If you can try to find, if you're going to match the nightstands, if you can find lamps that are almost identical but slightly different and match the shades and match the finials, you've created a little bit of a harmony instead of just like perfectly flat. And then, you know, you can see it on the website too. And my My client, if they're listening to this, will laugh because I begged them to do two different nightstands, but we kept the lamps. And like the husband had a really hard time with it and now he's happy. But so that's just a good tip. But anyway, let's say you buy a sideboard and your taste has changed and you want to upgrade to something else or you've just got a different design aesthetic.

28:58A sideboard can still look really beautiful in a primary bedroom, across from the bed with maybe a TV above it. A sideboard can look beautiful in an upstairs hallway. It can look gorgeous in an entryway. So that's where, again, I'm always telling people, if you can just buy something that really resonates with your soul and it has beautiful lines, you'll use it over and over and over again. Yeah. Do you think I we've had this conversation about, you know, things that you can buy early in your adulthood that can really travel with you, despite maybe going from an apartment to a little house to a big house.

29:35And I feel like a sideboard is one of those things where, yeah, like you said, in your first apartment, maybe it's where you put the television and then in your little first house, it's the front hall and then it becomes the dining. You know, it can go anywhere. I mean, we've put sideboards in children's playrooms before. They hold so much stuff. So that's where I'm saying, like, you really do. We we really try to audit what the client has, because I mean, not just to try to be like green, but I mean, it's a shame that everything gets it's like fast fashion and everything gets thrown away. And so to the extent that we can reuse things for clients, one, it is part of their thumbprint.

30:16It is part of their history. And it also tells the story of their life. I mean, one of the budget. Right. It helps the budget. I mean, and I look at, you know, my husband and I still have the same. It was the first time we ever bought some dining room chairs. We had saved up all of our money and we still use them because they're beautiful. But it was something that we bought together. It was our first like big splurge. And I also have found some things. I mean, right now, the bedside table in my room is something that I found on the side of the road in Austin. But it's gorgeous. So you don't have to spend a lot of money.

30:51But I think always try to buy the thing that has the pretty lines, like I said, that talks to your aesthetic because a good thing goes with another good thing. And yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let me ask you about a sofa because you mentioned earlier buying the best you can afford. What about when you are buying your very first sofa? When you're buying your very first sofa, you usually don't have, well, it depends on who you are. But let's just say regular people, when they're buying their first sofa, they probably have saved for it. Or they might be putting it on a credit card. Like, let's be real. I mean, when I bought my, like that chair that I bought.

31:27so you know i put it on a credit card and paid it off but the um but when you're buying your very first sofa i would try to think of that as a really beautiful try to think about the lines of like a gorgeous armani suit for a man or like a gorgeous simple like acris dress for a woman try to get something that is in a timeless forgiving fabric in a neutral probably performance or stain resistant. Avoid the sheen. Avoid the performance with the sheen. But try to find something. I mean, this sofa is a great example. Like this sofa has a slender arm. It looks like it has an 18 or 19 inch seat depth.

32:07It has boxy pillows. That is a timeless, beautiful piece that would really stand the test of time. And that could evolve with every one of your evolving trends. It looks great with a little French cutie that I'm sitting in. It would look great with a barrel back like you've got across the room. So something that is just tailored and simple is a really good first move. And try to find something too. I mean, and I know this is hard because especially if you're in a small apartment for your first sofa, but if you can, if you need to buy something really small, try to get a true love seat size because then that could go at the foot of a bed.

32:42It could go in a guest room one day. Otherwise, try to get something that's pretty standard, which is about 84 inches, 36 to 38, get something that really is just an Armani suit. Yeah. Well, I feel like sometimes people get a big sectional in their first apartment, and sectionals are so specific. They really are. And they're so expensive. I know. So really, an 84-inch sofa would be a much better investment because you could probably fit an 84-inch sofa almost anywhere. Anywhere. Maybe not a tiny New York apartment, but... Almost anywhere. Versus anywhere else. But in a sectional, too, if you...

33:16I mean, you guys have almost created a sectional. So, I mean, if we're looking at this space, I try to avoid sectionals anywhere I can now just because I'm not a huge fan of a sectional, but that's just a personal preference. But right here, this negative space right here, if you're trying to create a sectional and it's your first thing, this would be a great place for a table. And it can be a 30-inch table, which also could be a little cafe table in a kitchen one day. And then you can have a lamp on it, two chairs, and another little moment. and you've created a sectional, but now you have furniture that will translate anywhere.

33:49So that's where if you're trying not to buy something that's too, too specific to your first investment, you know, people work really hard to buy their furniture. And especially when you're feathering your first nest, I mean, you're saving up your money. So, yeah. I want to talk about color in a home and how you approach color and the composition of the room and like how you think about threading color throughout just a room? Or do you take it in around the house? Well, I mean, and this is... Where do you start? I'm always thinking about sight lines. So I'm always thinking about what the rooms look like as they march through the house.

34:34And this is another great moment. Like I said, I mean, a good color goes with a good color. So, and I know that sounds a little bit... I heard this amazing architect designer say that to me. I was on a house tour and now my perimenopause brain is making me forget his name, but I will remember it. We were listening to him. He was the first person that ever said a good color goes with a good color. And I went into his house and he had a really intense turquoise with a burgundy with a really gorgeous, almost saffron yellow. And I was like, those are really good colors. And then everywhere I went the rest of this tour of England, I saw that same combination on tile floors and castles.

35:16I should send you guys the pictures. I have them on my phone because I was like, there it is again. There it is again. I'll send you the pictures to show you this. I totally will. It's insane. Anyway, good colors go with good colors. So you're thinking about sight lines. And, you know, I'm a little bit of a witch. So I painted my living room that I just moved into kind of medium black. But it looks so good. I can't wait to show you. But like, it looks amazing. But I knew it was going to look amazing because I also knew all the art that was going in there, the rugs, the furnishings. So when I'm thinking about color for a client, I really am thinking of the whole composition.

35:52How the eye moves around the room, what's going on with light. So when I do photograph my house, you'll see, I mean, the walls are nearly black in these two front parlors, but they look amazing. Ceiling too? No, the ceiling's white. The ceiling's white, the trim is white, the art is sickening the window. Oh my God, I'll show you. I'll send you. When I get home, I'll send you a picture. Yeah. And the souvenir looks amazing in it, the dog. Okay. So color, we're thinking about sight lines and then some people, you know, color is very personal. And so by the time that we really are pulling pallets together and pulling the walls, we've really gotten to understand and love our clients.

36:30But if you're trying to figure out what color you might want to paint your own house, just know that color is the easiest thing to fix. Don't be afraid of it. It's just a can of paint. Wall color is the easiest thing. Wall color is the easiest thing to fix. Don't go broke with wallpaper until you really know what you want your wall color to be, because it's a weekend of paint to fix. But try to think what colors you love to wear, what makes you feel pretty or handsome because you know if you looked in my closet it's all neutrals blues and pinks which is totally opposite of what I'm wearing right now shockingly but my colors that I gravitate towards that I really love especially my bedroom I really do gravitate towards blues and that's the room I probably spend the most time in so if you're trying to figure out what colors to paint your walls I would encourage people to really think about what they love to wear.

37:28And then try to think, what is the color beyond it? You know, so if you're standing, my living room looks into these other rooms, I knew that that could have this deep hue, but it's looking on to a green that is a similar value to a blue. So that's just something to think about when you're choosing colors. And then is that just for walls? Or are you wondering about furniture too? No, furniture too, or pillows or rugs. So, I mean, and again, this is where if you just try to figure out what is the piece. So if you're starting with, let's say you have a rug already that you really, really love, then I would use that as the jumping off point for the room.

38:11Let's say you don't have a rug yet, then probably I would think about. what would I think about if I didn't have a rug yet? The wall. I would think of the fabrics in the wall. I've kind of been thinking of all together at the same time, though, really. Like, I'm sort of painting the composition at the same time. So I think go back to that moment where, well, I know what I'd try to say. Just don't make it too dyed to match. So that is where I would say I think people get caught up on, let's say they really love like a cornflower blue. They'll almost pick everything in that value. Then think back to nature.

38:53Okay, the sky is cornflower blue. The ocean is turquoise, right? Or the sky is kind of a moody, deep blue. The ocean is blue green. So that's a way to think of how to mix the colors. Same with greens. If you Think about our eyes are trained to see kind of every green feel it really well. So think about the jungle. There's hunter green, there's chartreuse green, there's lime green. So that's where try to do something to mix it up and then try to do the one thread of color that busts up the set. And that's where I would say, like, think about that cactus that I was talking about in Arizona. And they had that little extra thread of the kind of orangey persimmon color in it.

39:36The aubergine mixed with the green. So I would say those would be moments where if you're trying just not to make it feel like all one note. So a blue room looks really great with a hit of black, some white, and then a weirdo note. Yeah. We always talk about the color wheel. Oh, yeah, the complement. Yeah. Yeah, like go across on the color wheel, you know. Totally. Yeah. Pick your favorite yellow. I like calling that the weirdo note. Yeah. Gotta have a little wonderfully weird. I mean, it's funny because, you know, we have got some really talented junior designers right now that I just love to death.

40:10And, you know, they've brought some schemes to me before. And I'm like, that's gorgeous. Now go screw it up a little bit. You know, because you never want it to look like you you just painted by number or went to a one fabric house. And that's another thing I would tell people is if you are having to shop at one store, let's say, for whatever reason, definitely. I mean, I love how you all mixed up the animal print with the linen. I love how you made the box pillow. So I'd say try to figure out a way to make it not look like it's too perfect. Right. You also introduced a little bit of floral. So good.

40:43Oh my gosh, floral and animal print. Always friends. Yeah. Always friends. We're great together. Well, yeah, I love the way on a color wheel. To me, it's just so easy because you go across and they're opposites and therefore they energize one another. Yeah. So like, you know, the yellow and blue, like. The orange and blue. Orange and blue. Sorry. Yellow and purple. But like warm and cool. Yes. But even, but I even like how you said yellow and blue, because even just taking it one click to the right. Right. That's, that's what I'm saying. Like sometimes you just want to do the one weird thing that just gives a teensy bit of tension.

41:23It's not a dissonant chord, but it's, it's one of those harmonies that you're like, oh, that's good. Like, how did they do that harmony where it's such an interesting one? So you don't want it to screech at you, but you do need to have something that just makes it look like you didn't have a designer or a bad designer. Well, the other thing is, I think, well, I maybe some people would disagree, but I always think that a two color palette room at the very least, three color is even better. It's easier to live with because you don't get as tired of it. right? Because you can, you know, say you've got an all blue room and you've added a little bit of yellow.

42:01You can add a little bit more yellow and it'll start to feel even more different. Or you can, you know, go way more yellow and pull out some of the blue. Whereas if you have one color and it's on everything, it's a lot harder to mix it up and you get tired of it faster. And like another great person to study is the Prince of Chance, Mario Boada. You know, he is very famous for washing a room in the same fabric. But if you notice, I mean, he'll do like these strong hits of black. So let's say you're looking at a room that is all one fabric, blue and white. Let's say he'll get some hits of black in there and then he really will throw in like the weirdo chinoiserie chair that's lacquered in like cuckoo orange or something.

42:44So it's that's what I'm saying is trying to just figure out what it is that you can inject in there that gives the room an unexpected twist and little tweak of personality where people are like, oh, that person is super stylish. And they don't even know it. That. Effortlessly cool. You know, we were talking about letting your room evolve with you. And I was curious what life stages, I suppose, you think have the most impact on the way your house lives? I mean, you know there's um obviously when you've got little kids versus they're going off to college or um like first apartment yeah are there things that and are there ways that you can prepare for them or kind of anticipate um and plan ahead with your furniture plan or yeah there are ways to do that i've in my experience the the biggest life changes that prompt a massive redesign are a birth a death an unexpected illness those are the things where people will sometimes call and be like you know i'm 47 and i'm pregnant what is up and you're like cool the home office is becoming a nursery right like so the that is a surprise or it's when someone even is trying to have a children and they're like now i have four i because i just had this third one is twins right So birth, then death is when, especially if someone has deeply loved the person that has died, sometimes they want to preserve a big moment of them, but they also need to have a fresh start.

44:23But they want to stay in their same house. And then the other big prompt is an illness where maybe their primary suite suddenly has to be on the first floor. or maybe someone has become paralyzed or the medicine they're taking is making them need special needs. So those are the things where, if it's a really big shocker, those are the ones where I've been like, that's not just a normal evolution of a house. It's just, it's the circle of life stuff where you, and then it's, then your designer is, I would say hire someone if you can, that is someone that you can be totally raw with, you know? And I would say that about anyone you wanna hire.

45:02I always I don't don't even work with people unless I can picture myself trapped in L.A. traffic for three hours. Do I want to be in a Mini Cooper with you? Yes. Great. I'll work with you. But like but in a kind of I just worked with my contractor and he I knew that he was someone that I could have a really bad day. You know, you want to be able to like cry and you want to be a laugh. So those are the things that I would say are like the wild card changes where people, you know, working from home easy. It's very easy to turn a nightstand into a desk or to move a dresser and put a desk in a room.

45:35But the big stuff that takes an unexpected turn is the circle of life stuff. Wow, that was that was like deeper than I thought it would be. Well, but I mean, it's really I mean, I mean, I'll say on a personal note, I mean, and this might make me cry a little bit. But like the whole reason we bought this new house was my daughter's had this really long journey with cancer and she's in remission now. But we knew we needed a house where, if, God forbid, it comes back again, we've already had it come back once, I knew I needed a place where we could put in an elevator. We could have a first floor bathroom.

46:05And that's the kind of stuff where then it started to make me think, well, what if I ever have to have a hip replaced? Or what if I'm in a wheelchair myself for whatever reason because we're not getting any younger? It's stuff like that where, you know, those are the big things where I loved the house I was living in. We had a massive change in our life that was completely unexpected. So I was like, OK, then this is how we pivot. And so that's what we did. And I mean, there are many, many times that's happened where people call me surprised that they're pregnant or surprised that they're having twins or that, you know, or they'll have a, you know, a parent need to come live with them.

46:40It's the stuff that is the fabric of our life. I mean, it's the real life stuff where those are the big things like home office, easy renovating kitchen, easy. It's trying to figure out how to completely rejigger your whole house's floor plan or move to a new house to make it work. Well, and I would think that when your world is getting turned upside down like that, perhaps the last thing you want to do is redecorate. But it probably can have such a huge impact on your life and, you know, your comfort. Totally. You know, it's so it's so true. Relationships. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, just like I said, I mean, when Langdon was sick and we were working on all these houses, I mean, I still had to work because I was like that the beat goes on.

47:25Right. I mean, and it was very important. I mean, the oncology team was like, your daughter has to see you keep working because that helps her recovery because she understands that she's not dying, even though, you know, at the moment she was totally dying. and so we that's what we would I would people will always be like why are you at this meeting and we would start saying like because pretty rooms cure cancer right like that was the thing that was like helping me be like and this is going to keep her alive and I mean that's what the whole book we're writing is pretty rooms cure cancer I mean it's all the houses we worked on while she was sick but truly I mean I think having moments where you're really connecting with your clients on those are the and it's often clients that we've worked with for decades you know, or some, and that's not even true because some clients have called us out of the blue and they're like, I'm in this really tough time.

48:09And you're like, come here, baby. Like I will, I love you. Let me fix it and let's make it pretty. But yeah, I mean, your space and taking care of your nest and loving on your family. I mean, it's a big deal, but those, I would say those are the unexpected things that you kind of just can't plan for. And then you just get a really great design team if you can, and you lean into the experts and they fix it and they carry you write through it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That just sounds like the best support during that, during those difficult times. Yeah. Well, and my client saved me, I got to tell you.

48:42I mean, being able to go to work and make those pretty rooms and like, you know, try now we're trying to pay it forward and let's sell these books, right? Like we're in the process of writing it. But yeah, I mean, that's, that's what I'm saying. Like, I think design is so personal and you really do fall in love with your clients. And that's what I'm saying. Like, and especially, and I feel, you know, not everyone, I get it, like not everyone can hire a designer, but this is when you really can learn a lot from looking at what other designers do and you can steal their ideas. I mean, let's be real.

49:13You know, like look at other, people should go to my website, people should go to everyone's website and see what they're doing and find out what resonates with you and then try to copy it in your own house. Maybe it really does strike a chord, try to copy a little bit of what they did and put your own twist on it. And, you know, you can always, you can always be a copycat of a floor plan. And if you start to look at lots of books and see what everyone else has done, you're like, that kind of is my layout. I'm just going to, you know. Well, everything is a version of something before. There's nothing original, is there?

49:44No. But everyone does. But I will say, but it's true that every person truly does have, I mean, everyone has their own thumbprint. And that is the job is how do I and my team uncover their personal aesthetic and make it look like I was never there and really try to do the couture suit that fits their figure. Because that is that I think is what makes the magic for the client. You don't want to. I mean, is there anything worse than going in? You realize someone's used the same fabric on a headboard and now it's in your living room on your chair. Ew. Like like I'm saying, if I hired a designer, let's say I hired a designer and my and my sofa and I'm like that I I would think that I just paid this designer to travel all over, find this really amazing stuff, and then I go to my friend's house and it's their headboard.

50:33I'd be like, seriously? Yeah. Yeah. You know? Okay. One of the questions we have on here, which is, I think, something that we all worry about, is making decisions that you're going to regret. And how do you avoid that? Can you avoid that? Is that possible? You're always going to regret a few things like my quatrain chair. It is a beautiful chair. I do not want to slam quatring. It was a gorgeous chair. It wasn't perfect for me. Don't be afraid to make mistakes because we make a lot of mistakes in our lives, right? Like, so I always try not to have regret. And I tell my clients, try not to regret a past misstep.

51:14You know, we all make mistakes with scale and proportion and that's okay. And if you, let's say you buy a sofa and you thought that, I don't know, let's say you thought that pink stripes was really going to look good in your house. And then you get it and you're like, I hate pink stripes. Try to like nurse your wounds, recognize that you might have screwed that up. See if you can find a slip cover. If you can't, try to cut your losses, try to sell it. If you're in a position to give it to a charity, give it away and start over. So So people will make mistakes. I mean, that's just the name of the game.

51:54So I think, you know, I've made mistakes. I'll make people feel better. I was working for a huge social club. And I bought, actually, this is how it happened. I bought two leather chairs for a client. And they were out of town. And the client's going to laugh because they all know exactly who they are. And I told him, I was like, I bought the most wrong leather chairs for your house. Like I knew they were going to hate them. I didn't even let them stay in the house. And then I was working for this really big social club and they needed a really cozy like office space that kind of headquarters as the new social club was being built.

52:30And so I was able to sell these chairs to the social club guys for a really steep discount and buy the right one. So designers make mistakes. People make mistakes. I've made expensive mistakes. A huge chandelier is going in my kitchen right now that we call the beautiful B word because she is senseless. She does not put out one lumen of light. And she was so expensive. And I put her in a client's house. And I mean, you put your hand under it and she does not even illuminate the table. It's like the most gorgeous mean girl. But now she's, it's terrible. And I was like, I had to tell the client, I was like, yep, that's a beautiful bee.

53:08She's not going in your house. I got to take her out. Now she's going in my kitchen. I got can lights and I'm just trying to reuse it. But like, that was a huge mistake. Who would have known that a light fixture doesn't put out a stitch of light. So everyone's going to make mistakes. Your design firm is going to make mistakes. And it's really about, I mean, for our team, when we make mistakes, it's about cleaning it up and having the client not have to worry about it. And if you make a mistake in your own house, you just dust yourself off and recognize you just made a mistake. Well, I think sometimes it's like, do I take the risk or do I go with the safe option?

53:40And that is really going to be dictated by your wallet. you know some people can afford to go to vegas and some people can't so really i mean it's like what's your what's your risk tolerance and that's why we were talking about before the sofa if you really are in a situation where you are trying not to make a mistake go with the classic go with go with the thing that doesn't look like it's of an era it just looks like a clean good-looking suit and you kind of can't tell what decade the Armani suit was made in. Okay, well, we're going to help one of our listeners. Let's do it. Not make a mistake.

54:23So I'm going to read it. Read it. And then we will discuss. All right. It's from Jill and she says, Caroline, Liz, and Anne, my name is Jill. I'm in Oklahoma City. I wanted to send in my design dilemma for years. After my daughter was born in 2021, we began a renovation of our home, a duplex, that's been in my husband's family since the early 70s. Low ceilings, only one window downstairs, very low light. Rather than move, we claim the attic space to add windows, create an office for him, and what will one day be an art studio for me. But right now as a player, and by the way, Jill, I should mention that I did edit your question for time.

55:02during the renovation I was driving the highways for the baby snaps and that's when I discovered your podcast I listened to every old episode and on the advice of one of your designers I added arched windows to the pony wall at the top of the stairs taking my cue from the arched built-ins downstairs we absolutely love the light and the sense of calm the arches bring now for my dilemmas I have three the playroom has zero storage the windows are all built very close to their adjoining wall so I'm not sure how to add cabinetry without blocking them there's nowhere to put anything and I just give up instead of cleaning up.

55:32Downstairs, we have a framed TV across from the kitchen window, and we want to keep it there. We need a coffee table, and my husband wants to keep his leather recliner. Oh, the classic leather recliner dilemma. All dudes. But it feels too big for this space. The room is just unfinished and needs help. And finally, we inherit a pair of barrel swivel chairs that we love and want to reupholster. The wood has a strong orange tone, which makes me think about using blue as a compliment, but I'm not sure I want to go that bold. We've set them up near the fireplace, but we're open to moving them. As for style, I don't really know what mine is, but when I walk into my sister's houses, I feel peace and calm.

56:06Lots of neutrals, natural materials, natural textures. I think that's what we're going for. Longtime listener in OKC, Jill.

56:16Okay. So, yes, she's got a interesting space for sure. But yeah, she's got this room at the top of the stairs with these arch windows. The room's black. It's a big old space. And then she has this downstairs room. And it's one of those rooms that I think people struggle with where there's a change in the ceiling height. Yeah. Are your listeners going to be able to see these images? Yes, they will. Okay, fab. Let's start with what's working. You've got some cute things. And let's talk about what I love first. I love the flat file. That is so cool. I love the barrel back chairs. I love your area rug upstairs in the playroom.

57:08And fellow witch with me, I love the dark walls. So you're my soul sister. Okay, let's start with the playroom. Storage. okie doke we'll talk back to what we said at the very outset of this where i can't tell exactly what the layout is in here but if you can cheat a sofa off maybe that back wall that has the high windows let's say you could pull it forward or even put it along the wall that has your daughter's really great art you can pull a sofa forward and behind it and you can do this really affordably with big box store stuff, you can get some shelves from Ikea or even from Home Depot, and you can put them along the back of the sofa so it almost becomes a console behind the sofa.

57:57And then that can be full of baskets that have children's toys and book bins, anything like that. There are ottomans that have storage in them. Those can be found almost anywhere. You can even get some of the cubes that are footstools that have storage in them. If you're able to put end tables next to the sofa, those could have drawers. Your flat file just speaks to my soul because I was a painting and printmaking major. I love, too, the chair that you have up there that looks like it's mid-century, almost like a stickly chair. I can't tell if it's covered in plaid, but it's good looking. And you've got that cool little drink stand.

58:44Right now it looks like it's covered in sippy cups. But all of your wooden pieces definitely have a thread. And I love your easel, which we could keep as an easel or repurpose. So upstairs in the children's room, I would also maybe suggest painting the wall, the pony wall that has the arches. I might paint that the same color black just so that volume feels more cohesive. And I think if you love the neutral woven feeling, I might rethink the cafe curtains that you have on those windows. And maybe you could do a really gorgeous, here comes the perimenopause happening. It's matchstick blinds. You could do matchstick blinds.

59:28You can get those at Lowe's, Home Depot. And I might put a big rug in here, bigger than this rug you have, that's stripe, I might put that striped rug as a layering rug downstairs. And I think it might be really charming to have a much bigger rug up here to anchor the room, give the floor some personality. Because one of the things that's happening is if you go back up in that room and look, right now the value of your walls and ceiling and floor is all the same color. So it's like you're at Space Mountain. We need to anchor one of the planes. And that's where I would, I mean, And you're kind of on the right track with that darker, you know, the dark and light rug.

1:00:08But maybe get something much bigger to hold that volume down. Okay. And then downstairs. Can I just interject? Do it. Shameless bug that we have custom rugs that you can order by the foot. So you, this is kind of a long skinny room. You could order like a wool rug. For sure. That's however, whatever your dimensions are. That's not a shameless plug. That's smart. Yeah. Yeah. And in really great patterns. And I mean, I think this is where, okay, and since we are soul sisters and we like dark walls, power to the good witches. That's where, I'm not really a witch. But I mean, I might have been. But this is where I feel like these dark walls, like I said, when everything's dark, it's almost like you're in space.

1:00:58Where is the bottom? How are you anchored? So this might be a great moment where maybe you bring the leather recliner up there. Would he allow it? Because leather and dark is so beautiful. Maybe you bring in a sofa that is in a performance fabric. Maybe that's a little lighter. And that's where you need to start playing with the darkness and the light and striking that balance. And that's why I think painting the inside face of that arched wall would look fabulous, especially from this vantage point as you're staring at it from the room. Then the arches really become important. Like you truly see them.

1:01:35It would because the inside of the arch I would keep white. Just paint the face. And I think pulling again, pulling the furniture away from the walls slightly will allow you to have space for storage that you don't necessarily have to see. And another really great thing to do that's super affordable, and you can even go on my website because I did it on my first house, I couldn't afford to do beautiful casework in my dining room. So I just went to container store and bought these floating bookshelves that drill into the wall. It's all over my website. It's a trick I've done a thousand times. That's a great way to get children's books off the floor.

1:02:10But then it also kind of creates a shelf where then you could put another thing. so it allows you to kind of layer the space and then your kid or children are really cute artists i really love where that piece of art that's near the dollhouse is fantastic and that there's great ways to frame stuff like that really inexpensively okay would it be totally cheesy to do like a wall of cork board or like a giant bulletin board and just pin all those up like it's a gallery all day And that will add some of that natural texture you're talking about. I love that idea. Okay. And is it just me or does it look like in this picture?

1:02:47She has a wooden ceiling, but it looks in this picture like it's black. It does. It's kind of glowing. Is that the sunshine? I think it's glowing, but it's definitely a black ceiling. Okay. Because look, in this one, it's so black. Yeah. That's why I think it would be really beneficial to have some kind of lighter anchor on the floor. and I think your idea of doing the rug by the inch would be lawless. But anyway, okay, so then to repurpose that cute rug, I think downstairs you have all that broad loom and so it would be nice to use the rug as the anchor point. I'm wondering if maybe, Jill, did you put the TV on that wall so that you could see it from the kitchen?

1:03:32Maybe that's the reason that's on that wall. Right now, the room is lacking a focal point. And there's some really cool things happening in here. Your stair railing is chic. And you've got that fireplace wall, which seems like the logical focal point for the room. So if you could do the same trick of maybe, and again, I wish I could just get to your house and move furniture around with you. That would be a fun afternoon. But I would maybe rethink the position of the sofa. I wonder what the sofa would look like on the TV wall. Or if the sofa was cheated parallel but pulled off from the stairwell, then you could really incorporate your two barrel back chairs.

1:04:16They could form the sectional feeling and then you could have the recliner as its own little moment. So that would be one of those things. If you can't build it in 3D, a really good thing to do in a space like this would be to measure your room and draw it and then measure some pieces of paper. Just use graph paper. Make your sofa, make your barrel back chairs and make your wing, your recliner and then move them around like puzzle pieces. But I think the TV, I don't like putting TVs above the fireplace, but in this instance, I think that might be nice just because right now there's no clear focal point.

1:04:55And another thing she said, OK, I'm sorry, I was just referring back to her question. She says that we want to keep it where it is, the TV. Okay, Jill. I think my biggest question is, does she use the two sitting spaces differently or does she want it to be one integrated space? Because right now she has the barrel chairs in front of the sofa and that seems like that's its own space, but then nothing's really anchoring the main space. What if she got, like, a great sideboard to put under the TV with, like, a killer pair of lamps over the sideboard on either side of the television. That could work.

1:05:34And then when the TV's off, because it's a frame TV, it's art. It could work. And then, okay, so then the sofa then would go along, then the sofa would go along the stairwell that pulled out, without actually knowing the dimensions and being able to see this in plan view. It's a little tricky, but, okay, So I didn't pay attention to the assignment and realize that she wants to keep the TV there. It's okay. I forgot, too. Jill, we forgot. We forgot. Sounds like she just needs to play around with her layout. I agree. And I really do think. Just move everything around. Move everything around. But also, the other things I would say to start adding in is there only is light from above.

1:06:16So I would definitely get some lamps in there to try to mix up the light to vary it. And I think getting your rug down here to add as an anchor point, it's just everything is kind of floating. I wonder, could she put the TV on the on the easel? Like maybe then. Right. I don't know anything about frame TVs. Can you put that on the easel? Maybe. Probably you can't. Consult your frame installation guide. but I do love that you did a frame because it's trying not to have a TV look like a TV and then I really love these barrel back chairs and I agree with you Jill that the blue might feel a little intense and especially since you like neutrals this would be a great opportunity to recover these in some kind of like nubby performance fabric I'm kind of sick of boucle but maybe something that is like a thick nubby linen cotton something like that um i don't know if i really helped then if we're not moving the tv darn it there's also that really cool spot under the under the stairs that would be such great kid storage i mean that would be a great moment it looks like is she using that or or some sort of like built-in reading nook totally something like that would it be weird to put the little barrel back chairs in there like those are so adorable don't you want to keep them out so you can see the back they just have such a cute back.

1:07:44I don't know. I mean, this is one of those things where maybe you did put the TV there so you could see it from the kitchen. But I'm just going to say in my professional opinion, right now the room is a little bit dueling banjos. Like, what's the focal point? So that might be a moment where if you just want to orient the room to pretend like it's looking at the fireplace and just live with it for a moment, you might find you like it. Because you always move it back. It's like nothing's permanent. Yeah, that's the least expensive thing you could do. Girl, just move in. Bribe a friend. What about the recliner?

1:08:18Recliners, I mean, you got, we have this all the time with guys. I mean, you. Okay, question for Jill. Does he need to have a recliner or does he need to have this recliner? Right? Could he, could we get, could we upgrade his recliner to a slightly more attractive, not, because this is like a chair and a half, actually. It's big. It's like bordering on love scenes. Um, well, I don't know how big her husband is. I mean, some of these guys that are big just want their chair. But I agree if it's if that's the only. That is so big. Like that thing looks like it's like 48 inches wide. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

1:08:56You know, do you guys have great recliners? We do. Let's do that. Shameless blood. We have some. And you can get it in a ballard dot com. Yeah. Ballard dot com. You can get it in any of our fabrics. It doesn't have to be leather. No, you're right. It's really big. But that leather recliner, I think, would look smashing upstairs. It really would. I know, with the dark. It would really fit in well up there. I agree. And even if she wanted to do, I mean, even that sofa that looks like it's a really chic, kind of like nubby corduroy. I mean, even that would look good upstairs if that's what she wants to hide.

1:09:27The storage are behind. And that cool flat file might even look great under the stairs as like a statement piece in the living room. but I know she wants to keep that up there for the room to eventually transition into a yeah a studio but that's one of those things um where if she's wanting to have something morph if right now it's really a true playroom maybe she just brings it upstairs in the next season of her life Jill I hope I'm helping you um yeah I agree with you guys though that the the barrel back chairs feel like they're in a whole separate room. Yeah. But I really love the idea of like layering a large rug down there and grounding that space too.

1:10:08So that's probably step one and then figuring out like where to move the furniture. Yeah. Another, can I say one more thing that's good about those layering rugs is if you do end up having to have a lamp on a side table where it's not near an outlet, you can use blue tape and tape the cord onto the backside of the rug and just cheat it out to where the outlet is. So sometimes it's a way to hide a cord. What were you going to say? What about, well, you know, she's got this carpet and I don't know what she said about the carpet. But I was going to say maybe a natural fiber rug on top of the carpet.

1:10:49Do we feel like that would be weird? But it might like echo the matchsticks upstairs or if she could save up to replace the carpet with a wall-to-wall natural fiber. I don't know. What do you think about that? In a perfect world, take the rug up. Like, remove it, is what I would say in a perfect world, so that you don't have rug and then, is that porcelain tile? That's perfect world, is make it all the same. And I imagine that porcelain tile there is because of the weather. but um if you did go with a natural fiber rug the i love the wool and polypropylene blend wool's always like north star but if you need something truly bulletproof that you can like wash with the dawn is wool and polypropylene blend and then for something super cheap and cheerful but some people don't like the way it feels under their feet is seagrass is literally really tough as boots.

1:11:47Not jute. Jute's a nightmare. But seagrass, you, I mean, Souvenir has barfed all of the Easter Bunny candy all over the seagrass rug in the studio, and we literally wiped it up with Dawn dish detergent. So those would be my three top pick. Do you guys sell those too? We do have seagrass. We do. Ballard.com. Well, because you mentioned the matchsticks upstairs. Yeah. That would kind of help tie them together, bring some of that natural texture downstairs. Which she likes so much. Yeah. No, that'd be great. But, I mean, that's not one dollar. So that's where, you know, but I think that the easiest thing might be to just anchor the space with that area rug.

1:12:25Try that first. Yeah. I mean, play musical chairs with your own things first. Yeah. Grab some lamps from the other room. Bring them in. Figure out where those need to go, where that lighting needs to go. Yeah. Because I love the idea of being able to put a floor lamp, you know, kind of where she's got that side table next to the room. Or a table lamp. Just something to bring a little bit of light in that room in a different spot. Lighting changes everything. And this kind of goes with what we were first saying at the outset of the show, where when you just have one note of light, it falls flat.

1:13:03But if you have varied lights at varied heights, it's much more dynamic and it's cozy. Okay, well, Jill, let us know what you decide. I want to hear the post game. Yeah, what's the post game? Yeah.

1:13:20Thank you for listening. Yeah. We're so glad you found us. I'm excited to see how she moves everything around. Yeah. So then do they send, do you guys get to see the post game report? Like, do we get to see the new? Sometimes. Some folks do. Please. Please. Yeah. We really love when people send it back. Or even progress. We could do, she could do the progress of like, hey, I moved my furniture. I haven't invested yet. But this is the layout. Yeah. Yeah. this is really cool that you all do this yeah it's fun and we get to help people and we get to offer some great expert advice to our listeners yeah yeah no i i'm i'm sad i didn't get to meet her in person well maybe one day yeah one day yeah and tell everyone where they can find you follow you and see your work our my company is hanover avenue and it's hanover avenue.com hanover is spelled like the tomato and Avenue is spelled like the street.

1:14:14And our Instagram is Hanover Avenue. And I'm not very good at social media, so that's kind of all we've got. Maybe we have Facebook. I'm not really sure. But yeah, our website is Hanover Avenue and Instagram's Hanover Avenue. You have a beautiful website. I wish we could put more on, you know, all those magazines, they embargo the images. So there's so much work that I want to put on there, but some of it's been held back for the book and then some of it's going in magazines. But yeah, I wish we could show everything all the time, but we can't. You have a lot of eye community on there. You're sweet to say that.

1:14:45No, I'm so thrilled to have been here, guys. This is really fun. Thanks for coming by. We so appreciate it. I loved it. So glad. Well, thanks for coming. Thanks for having me. And we're so glad we got to share your work with our listeners. I am too. We'll see each other soon, I'm sure. That's our show. And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog, howtodecorate.com slash podcast. To send in a decorating dilemma, email your questions to podcast at ballarddesigns.net so we can help you with your space. And of course, be sure to follow us on social media at Ballard Designs.

1:15:18Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback. Until next time, happy decorating.