AMA #14: 2023 Philanthropy, Evening Routine, Light Therapy, Health Metrics & More

0:00Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast where we discuss science and science -based tools for everyday life.

0:09I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. We are now live today with our annual and lifetime members of the Huberman Lab podcast Premium channel and first off, I just want to welcome everyone. Thanks so much for being here. I hope you're having a good holidays and Wish you a happy new year at this point and again at the end. I Want to kick off our discussion today by just highlighting some of the incredible things that you all have already done. The premium channel as most of you, presumably know, provides support for important research and when I say important research, we can define that as research that is done on humans with humans with their consent, of course, that we believe stands the highest probability of leading to new quality treatments and improvements in mental health, physical health and performance.

1:06So support from the premium channel that is from you has already allowed us to make several substantial gifts to various laboratories as well as some other Some other endeavors. So I'll just quickly tell you where those funds have gone and then I'll tell you something really Truly exciting about where we're headed in 2024. We'll get to the questions in a moment, but I think this is important to hear. First of all, we made a Year -long gift and when I say year -long gift, we're talking gifts that I certainly can say from my perspective as a researcher who's run a laboratory for a very long time.

1:40These are the Size gifts that allow Researchers to do research that they otherwise would not have been able to do. They pay salaries. They pay For materials in the laboratory. They pay for the sorts of things that allow science to happen that would not otherwise happen. We made a gift to Dr. Alia Crums laboratory at Stanford in the Department of Psychology. She studies mindsets. Some of you may have seen the episode with Ali as she's called Dr. Crum on the human lab podcast. She's studying mindsets and how they affect both mental health and physical health in Children and adults and that work hopefully will get a report back on at some point soon About how those mindsets can improve performance in school work, athletics and other areas of life So the idea here is that you supported that work through the premium channel and Then that work can happen and then we can get the information about what the conclusions of that work are Out into the general population meaning into the public so that people can benefit from that knowledge right away And in many cases implement that knowledge.

2:42We also made a gift to Dr. Sachin Panda at the Salcons Institute for biological studies Sachin Panda is an expert in circadian biology and intermittent fasting and the study he is using those funds for relates to intermittent fasting As a specific tool for improving mental health We also made a gift to Dr. Carla Schatz and at Stanford University School of Medicine She's studying how the immune system and maternal conditions and especially infections or various kinds that pregnant women Sometimes encounter or get can affect the developing fetal brain and that work also relates to stem cells I know there's a lot of excitement about stem cells nowadays So I'll give you an update on that as soon as I can we also made a substantial gift to Dr.

3:25Joanna Steinglass at Columbia University School of Medicine Dr. Steinglass has not yet been on the podcast But hopefully she will have time to come on the podcast at some point soon She's studying and developing novel treatments for eating disorders if you didn't see the episode on healthy and disordered eating sadly Interoxia neurosa is the most deadly of all the psychiatric conditions that is a great number of patients that Have interoxia neurosa unfortunately go on to die Malnourishment and things related to malnourishment. So it's a critical critical issue that's not talked about enough and frankly is not Well -funded enough at the level of federal funding but through your support.

4:04There's now funding Cyphing into her laboratory and she's directing those funds directly at novel treatments based on neuroscience and habit formation for eating disorders Interoxia and others being disorders Dr. Nolan Williams also at Stanford who does work on transcranial magnate stimulation, which is a tool to non -invasively Altered neural circuits in the brain For purposes of relieving depression and PTSD and excitingly Dr. Williams laboratory also combines TMS transcranial magnate stimulation with psychedelic treatments In particular, I began but also psilocybin there's a lot of excitement about that and then last but certainly not least We also funded a chronobiology conference.

4:48They were desperate for funds reached out and we were delighted to provide the funds for that Conference those funds allowed graduate students and postdocs who come from laboratories that couldn't afford to send those students and postdocs to that conference to attend that conference And I must say from a lot of years of experience in the scientific community the ability to attend these high quality meetings Is absolutely critical for those young scientists to be able to glean important information and go back to their own laboratories And to make novel contributions also can be the difference between a new collaboration getting sparked up or not and I should just mention that the research laboratories that we fund were at a much higher level than the conferences But the conferences I think are also a really important Way to direct funds for those of you that don't know chronobiology is how the timing of light temperature and exercise and eating Effect health so all things that I think People are interested in so That's it for what we covered and what we supported in 2023 We're very proud of the support that we were able to provide thanks to your help and I am very very excited to announce that While in 2023 it was sci -com us the human lab podcast through your pre -immune Channel support that allows us to make that support and we had a matching donation dollar for dollar donation From the tiny foundation heading into 2024 tiny foundation is going to continue to do a dollar dollar a dollar for dollar match Excuse me, which is exciting and we've brought on in addition to that two Other donors who are going to also do dollar for dollar donations So in other words for every dollar that the human lab premium channel has or raises in 2024 There will be three dollars to match that so this is phenomenal and in what it means is that the Sci -com and the human lab podcasts are now doing what's considered on university campuses as major philanthropy So very exciting And so thank you also very much for your support you are making a difference in the research And I don't just say that I know anytime there's fund erasers things that sort by the way This is not a fundraiser.

6:48This is us saying thank you to you But it's always hard to know where those funds go and um we make sure that the whole process is a very streamlined We cut the fat on the on in every dimension so that um the money can go to Discovery new tools for mental health physical health and performance. So thank you so much Okay, first question is up Carolyn a writes I am interested in studies about the anterior mid -singulate cortex. Oh, yes such an interesting structure Would you please share any information regarding those Thank you for all you do in the advancement side. Thank you for all you do in the advancement of science Carolyn and others listening.

7:25Okay, so the anterior mid -singulate cortex for those of you that May not have seen the episode on will power in tenacity But even if you have is a region of the brain that is involved in leaning into difficult challenges of all kinds This is an area of the brain that gets larger when we embrace effort that leads to a bit of internal Anxiety but it's something that's good for us an adaptive thing And this is an area of the brain that gets smaller When we don't engage in challenging endeavors now we need to define challenging endeavors very specifically Challenging endeavors that stimulate the growth of the anterior mid -singulate cortex are challenging endeavors that we would prefer not to do We may want the end goal right so we may want the the consequence of the exercise the consequence of the learning the consequence of whatever the challenge is But that the challenge itself feels uncomfortable and here of course we want it to be Uncomfortable but safe challenges is what is what's going to grow the inter mid -singulate cortex now Another thing about the inter mid -singulate cortex that's important is that for people that end up being successful diet or successful pursuit of fitness for people that Complete a degree or finish an exam or things that sort of the inter mid -singulate cortex is bigger for people that fail to do the work required to prepare So the preparation that is The inter mid -singulate cortex actually shows a bit of atrophy so the inter mid -singulate cortex is an anatomical and neural reflection of Willpower and tenacity and I think what people get wrong over and over About the sorts of findings is that the inter mid -singulate cortex is really responding to a variety of inputs as a lot of different inputs and outputs We know that based on neural circuit tracing, but it absolutely Responds best to things that feel like that they are indeed difficult that they are a challenge So if you're like me and you enjoy certain forms of exercise and it's just pure bliss for you the whole way through That's not going to grow your inter mid -singulate cortex however if you add a bit of let's say Higher intensity work like I like doing a long run or hike on Sundays.

9:30I don't do sprints too often at the end of that But if I were to do a couple of hillsprints at the end and I really was like ah this this is rough this sucks That's actually the sort of thing that's going to stimulate the inter mid -singulate cortex The inter mid -singulate cortex since Carolyn you asked about studies was actually discovered in cases where people were stimulating the sprain area and the subjects these where people were receiving neurosurgery for other reasons reported feeling like something was impending some not impending doom, but there was some Challenge like they were going to head into a storm something challenging was coming But the other subjective feeling that they reported was feeling like they could lean into it like they're ready for they were ready to meet that challenge So what you're looking for when you are interested in growing your inter mid -singulate cortex And I'll tell you why that's a good thing to do is you're looking for that feeling of leaning into challenge that friction If something's too easy or it's too delightful That's not going to contribute to your inter mid -singulate cortex Function and growth I might contribute to other things indeed it will And life isn't all about leaning into challenge But why would you want to stimulate your inter mid -singulate cortex in this way?

10:38And by the way those challenges can come from physical endeavors and can come from language learning it come from a hard conversation that you're You've been putting off that's hard for you to have Lord knows we all I'll have those aspects of our lives The things that we're putting off are that are hard for us or that feel difficult again keep these endeavor safe Never want to do anything that would damage your mental health or physical health, but leaning into challenge in that way does seem to activate and grow the inter mid -singulate cortex now The advantages of that is that there are studies Excuse me showing that the so -called super -agers These super -agers I don't like that name so much it should it's a bit of a misnomer They call them super -agers, but they really should be called super non -agers because these are people who seem to maintain healthy cognitive function Much longer than most individuals their memory their IQ Is remain stable into their much much later decades of their life or even improves over time and then the correlation And again, this is correlation, but these are these people's inter mid -singulate cortex does not atrophy and in general What the studies point to and there still needs to be more data collected on this is that these people Are regularly engaging in things that are hard for them and challenging and they've embraced that challenge So lots to say about inter mid -singulate cortex But I think that grabs the top contour and I'm a big fan of trying to do something difficult at least one thing Ideally every week And perhaps even every day a little bit it doesn't take much Maybe in just five minutes.

12:04It's that friction that feeling. Oh, I don't want to do this I can't do this and then continuing to practice or continuing to lean into that challenge safely Of course that is going to grow that inter mid -singulate cortex And I just think that's amazing right we are so much about brain at atrophy and memory loss and etc etc as we get older a lot of data now about how to preserve healthy physical function Here we're really talking about how to maintain healthy cognitive function and the inter mid -singulate cortex seems to be a barometer of how well we are doing that Mark S. asked would love to hear more about an evening routine and not just morning especially when it comes to light Oh, I love this question I love this question because I've made a lot of changes in the last year related to this because um You know there's this guy on the internet that talks about the importance of getting morning sunlight just kidding There are several of us but um and gals but um, I suppose I've been quite vocal about the importance of getting morning sunlight as soon as possible after waking And of course, of course, of course unless you have powers, I'm not aware of if you wake up before the sun comes out If you always ask what do I do you wait till the sun comes out?

13:04If it's overcast you get outside a bit longer if you want to wake up Before the sun comes out turn on bright artificial lights Now these days I've actually been playing around a little bit with some bright artificial lights Um before I because I tend to wake up before the sun is out It's the winter months but in any case I've talked a lot about the morning routine in the early part of the day and a bit about the afternoon part of the day Evening routine Okay, well, I'll tell you ideal and then I'll tell you what I do Um, I'm always shooting for ideal But I'm human I think there's this idea on the internet That I've seen that you know my whole life is is protocols protocol protocol protocol and indeed Sometimes it looks like that and indeed sometimes it doesn't I'm human things happen um We all encounter different challenges So to answer your question directly mart I think it's I know it's very important that if possible that you get a little splash of sunlight in your eyes In the afternoon and evening why why is that important and what we're really talking about here is Not necessarily seeing a sunset at the beach although that would be great if you could do that But getting some sunlight in your eyes before the sun goes down maybe for five ten minutes It's not as important as the morning sunlight But it does have a great benefit and they've benefited is it adjusts the sensitivity of the neurons in your retina and in your brain such that It protects you Against brighter artificial lights later in the evening now it doesn't protect you completely But what it does is if normally And this is true Bright light viewed for 15 seconds or more between the hours of 10 pm and 4 am I'm talking about somebody on a standard schedule not shift worker bright lights viewed for 15 seconds or more between the hours of 10 pm and 4 am can dramatically quash Melatonin levels melatonin being the hormone that's involved in feeling sleepy and falling asleep It does other things as well of course is secret from the pineal We know based on a really nice study published in science reports that if you view that afternoon late afternoon evening sunlight Don't have to be too strict about the time yet you know pop your sunglasses off as long as you can do that safely Get some sunlight in your eyes or if you can't look directly at the sun and by the way never stare directly at the sun At least getting some daylight in your eyes before the sun goes down That can offset that melatonin reduction by about 50 50 percent which is pretty impressive Now you would still do well to dim the lights in the evening and one thing that I've been playing with recently is using red lights so A lot of people when they hear red lights, they think oh you're talking about you know red light panel Which that has a to use is those tend to be very bright red lights or You know portable red light.

15:44Yeah, I actually use a small portable red light. It looks like a piece of thick piece of toast I use that for other reasons This is not what we're talking about with evening routine with evening routine It can be beneficial and very very cost effective To get some red bulbs and put them in say the bedroom where you read before you go to sleep or in a particular room in your house You tend to spend time in in the evening makes for a nice mellow feel, but it also does several other things first of all it If they're the correct red bulbs and I'll mention the ones that I've been using in a moment they eliminate all the blue wave lengths that tend to be stimulating for the What we call the norage energy system.

16:24So adrenaline nor adrenaline cortisol etc Indeed, there's a study shows that when shift workers who have to be up at night use red lights of the type that I'm describing when they work under red light they have less of a cortisol increase than where they to work under standard fluorescent lights or even standard led lights So number one thing would be dim the lights in the evening and at night as much as you safely can to perform whatever functions You don't fall you know don't burn yourself with the stove you know If you have to ride and do work as I often do you need light But to the extent that you can shift to red lights That can be helpful and many people many people and myself included find that you get sleepier when you do that So I might just do this for the last hour of the evening even if I'm up till 10 or 11 Or if I do it earlier than I tend to get really sleepy, but those red lights You know I have a little lamp above my bed.

17:15I'll do that if I'm in a read and bed I make it much easier fall asleep probably because of the reduced cortisol associated with eliminating the blue wave lengths and and they tend to be fairly dim and Now there's one brand of red light that You actually can actually will work on a dimmer. So this is important I suppose you could use a red party lights or Christmas lights those could be very affordable Some people do that. It's kind of festive feel in the room other people like myself Will Use a red light that's dimmable I want to mention that what I'm about to say I don't have any financial relationship to this company in terms of the bulbs Red light panels are different.

17:52I use the juve I use juve type but for red lights that for the purpose I'm talking about that would go into a standard lamp and that you dim where That's a very different purpose right the red light panels have a very different purpose than then red bulbs that you would put into a standard light fixture The dimmable ones are called they you can find them is red light and just put bon it's a the technical name of the company is Sorry, forgive me for googling this now. Yeah, it's a bon charge bo and separate word charge And those are dimmable and they have the proper wavelength. So that's what I use They're not super cheap, but they're not expensive either in comparison to most red light therapies or something So we're not talking about red light therapy.

18:36We're talking about reducing the overall amount of blue light in your environment etc now for many people who don't want to purchase something new and again I have no financial relationship to bon charge. So I don't glean anything. I buy them with my own money And I just have one or two of them and I dim the lights even those red lights I dim while I'm reading it night and then fall asleep If You don't want to use red lights for whatever reason then you would be wise to just dim the lights that you have and Where possible to have those lights be set fairly low in your room environment now? Why would that be?

19:08Okay. Well, first of all the cells that activate the alertness system in the brain via the retina your eye tend to look up into your environment and that makes sense because they're essentially there to view sunlight and the the presence or absence of sunlight but in addition to that Think about it logically if I take a flashlight and I shine a beam on the ground or at a tree in the yard It looks very bright But you're not getting all those photons in your eyes, right? You're seeing it at a distance as opposed to shining the light in your eyes It's very very bright. Okay, so when you have lights that are overhead and going into your eyes It's very different than the light being on the floor or on a surface This gets back to something that I often get asked how could it be that viewing sunlight through a window Takes 50 times longer to activate your circadian system than it does when you step outside Well, let's think about that when you step outside there's sunlight everywhere if you face the sun There's even more coming at you But when you're inside unless there's a beam of light coming through that window and the window is very clear or open for that matter You're not really getting the light in your eyes in the same way that if you're outside with the sunlight in your eyes Right?

20:12It's the same thing as like looking at a beam of light from a flashlight against a wall versus the beam of light going at your eyes Okay So we talked about dimming the lights setting them low in the room the red it's not red light therapy But changing over to red lights bond charge is probably just one of many out there I've seen it done pretty nicely with just somebody People grab red party lights go on Whatever your favorite search engine sales site near the red lights and you could do that That's gonna be better than any blue lights And then if you're gonna be on your screens Here's what I suggest is a short cut function in your phone where you can triple -click to switch your phone over to eliminate all the blues this is very different than just using the nighttime function very different and I think we should probably put out a video on how to do this But what you do is you go into the accessibility function on your phone you go into color filters and then you drag down The the blues but that's not how your phone is gonna be set all day because then you don't see anything that's in blue But you can introduce a triple -click function.

21:08I'll put out a clip soon on how to do that And so when I go to sleep at night or in the evening what I'll do is I'll triple -click and I'll switch my phone over to To red only and that's completely zero cost by the way It doesn't cost anything and then in the morning when I wake up at click click click click I turn on although I try and get the sunlight in my eyes before I look at my phone Okay, Tom M asks light therapy recommendations for those that live in northern regions with limited morning lighter too cold to get outside For morning light dark when waking do red light therapy great question.

21:37I'm gonna take a sip of this bone broth because What the rate I'm speaking if I try and keep this up for an hour and a half I might get a little horse Red light therapy is different than what I just described Red light therapy is the use of red light panels I think it can be smaller panels like the small jive that I use which is a Units about the size of a piece I guess they call it Texas toast, right? It's a Texas thick piece of toast Maybe someone knows why it's called Texas toast um, I guess it's big um It's about the size of a piece of toast Provides very bright red light and in between those red lights on there there tends to be near infrared light so far red so You know to a biologist red doesn't mean as much as the wavelength of light so wavelength something like the 650 to 800 nanometers is what we're talking about whereas blue light is down in the you know four and five hundred and really like five thirty five to You know low sixes Like the rainbow right red or green blue um There are also larger red light panels and nowadays I also see a lot of Advertisements for red light panels you got to actually light down in red light beds.

22:46Here's the story red light Will often be marketed as the most powerful the most intensity the most locks most important is the proper wavelengths Or are the proper wavelengths? So that's why I use the jive because jive has the proper wavelengths of red and far red The distance to view a red light of that sort Generally is about 18 inches sometimes a little closer now sometimes people will put red light on different parts of their body I covered a bit of this in the light and health episode but red light Because it's longer wavelength light can permeate through tissues to fairly substantial depth How deep depends on the tissue if you put it up against your skull is it gonna get down into your brain?

23:26No, it's not gonna get through your skull Maybe a little bit if it's a very high powered red light if you're holding a red light of that power at home Something's wrong. I don't that's a medical that's a medical device However jive are medical grade red light and near and for red lights and they Um are quite powerful. They're the right wavelengths actually. That's why I prefer jive because they are They are medical grade They can be directed at your eyes in the morning For the purpose of there's a study out of two studies actually out of Glenn Jeffery's laboratory at the University of college London showing that viewing red lights at a distance of about 18 inches or so In the morning for people who are over 40 but not for people younger by the way That can offset some of the age related Reductions in mitochondrial function and vision loss So I look at a red light in this jive my jive texas toe slight or I have a jive panel At a distance of about I confess I stand about 12 to 16 to 18 inches away And I do not force myself to look at that light.

24:31I don't hold my eyelids open. I allow myself to blink so I'm comfortable Truth told you could probably close your eyelids and some of that red light is gonna get through your eyelids Not a tonne but some so no problem blinking Never ever ever want to look at any light sunlight or otherwise red light any light So bright that's painful to look at if you have to blink it's too bright step back If you have to blink every once in a while that's okay But if you have to blink in order to close your eyes in order to protect your eyes Then you're standing too close In the morning you can do red light therapy on skin you can do it on eyes will it wake your system up?

25:04Will it provide the kind of cortisol increase which by the way you want early in the day and adrenaline and dopamine increase that sunlight can provide the answer is No sunlight is unique in that way however if you live in an area of the world that's too dark or You wake up long before you get sunlight in your eyes. What can you do? Well, you can flip on artificial lights You do that the opposite of how I recommend in the evening you'd want to flip on overhead lights as bright as possible if you Have the disposable income and you want to invest in a 10 ,000 lux light panel or 900 lux light panel again, I have no financial relationship to these companies, but There's a light panel 900 lux drawing tablet that I've set on my desk for a number of years recently.

25:47I confess I've started Experimenting with some of the 10 ,000 lux light panels that sit on your desk Excuse me those are very very bright and I do use that now if I wake up really early and I'm gonna do some work I'll turn that thing on and it sure wakes you up now. Is it as good as sunlight? No It doesn't have the right color features and alternation between yellow and blue that morning sunlight has and that evening Sunlight has and without doing a whole tutorial when the sun is low in the sky so -called low solar angle sunlight You'll notice if you take a picture with your phone Provides not a cloudy day.

26:18You'll see that there's a lot of blue yellow contrast and that's the optimal stimulus That said if it's overcast out you should still get outside because some of those wavelengths are coming through Even though you can't perceive the blue in the yellow So these you could get a 10 ,000 lux light But if you can't to forward that or you don't want to oh, and by the way those you you said on your desk You turn on for five 10 minutes while you're making coffee or things that so they actually recommend that you don't keep them on Too much some people actually can feel a little too euphoric or maybe even get a little headache because it's a lot of blue light So that's one thing the other thing you can do is that if you can't Access light of any kinds of dark dark dark.

26:54That's where the cold shower really can help because you get that adrenaline bump Early in the day, which is good so early in the day You know provided you're not going into states of anxiety as a consequence of it getting adrenaline Dopamine cortisol increases is great and then as the day goes on in the evening and nighttime certainly you want to taper The levels of those neurochemicals off now of course There's always going to be some cortisol there's always going to be some epinephrine There always be dopamine in your system if you go out dancing you go to a party at night should you worry about the lights?

27:21No, okay, I am not despite what you might Presume or hear or read I am not This where a person where sunglasses in a party although the other day I was at a party and someone was wearing sunglasses I think it was for other reasons the That gives the impression that was something bad going on. I think they were just like looking cool by the way And they did look cool, but I don't do that and if I drive at night. I don't wear I don't wear um sunglasses. I do And I have been exploring the use of A blue light filter glasses in the evening and those red lights in my house But for I think for most people if you get out every once in a while you go out to a late night You go out dancing you have a party with friends.

27:58You know you get home dim the lights Maybe use those red lights get to sleep early in the day bright lights ideally from sunlight bright bright bright bright bright bright bright How bright as bright as possible and as many as you is reasonable Except to the extent that it could damage your eyes So don't be staring at any bright lights excessively. Okay, I think that that pretty much summarizes it And then of course early day It's really about sunlight or light of other kinds Cold water if that's your thing if that's not your thing that's fine There was no tablet that descended down to us telling us that we had to get into cold water each day It's an option.

28:33It's all an option Dennis from Munich I love Munich. I've been there in a while, but I used to go I'm ox plunky Munich for a number of times per year and I miss the food. I miss the Schnitzel As we approach a new year what health and fitness metrics do you recommend checking? Oh good one And could you share your annual medical fitness check routine? Okay Uh, what I'm about to say. I'm sure we'll um Generally Job with what doctor Peter Atia who I'm sure you all know and who I respect tremendously also grateful to calma close friend Uh, basically asserts is important for fitness um I think if you're gonna do a fitness test You know, Peter's got it in mind and I generally agree you know you deadlift your body weight 10 times in the same set Hang from a bar for a minute or more.

29:29Okay in the same set Um, these sorts of things I tend to be far less PE class about it frankly My goal is always the same 48 years old. I've been doing the same training program ever since I was 16 More or less. I mean, I've had you know at you know peaks and valleys in terms of my consistency based on other obligations and of course when I'm sick I don't train sick people stay out of gyms. Please nothing makes me more frustrated than people showing up to get their workout and getting everybody sick Here's the deal I try to be Capable that is ready for various things what the ability to go on a long hike what's a long hike five to 10 miles with some hills The ability to spring for the airplane without blowing a gasket The ability or that means hurting oneself or having a heart attack the ability to carry some heavy furniture with assistance safely or god forbid to take a trip and not damage myself and of course to have some level of agility and coordination so how does one do that so What help fitness metrics to i recommend checking well, I'm gonna do this next week because it's the end of the year But pretty much every week it's the following three cardiovascular training sessions one is long meaning an hour to 90 minutes.

30:54That's gonna be slow for me So this could be a weighted hike so a weight vested hike or you could just put some weight in a backpack There's just be a hike if it's really steep or a long slow jog once a week for me. It's jogging or hiking for other people it's cycling or swimming Sometime in the middle of week I'm doing a 35 -minute run so maybe five minutes of warm -up and then a faster 35 -minute run You could also do it on a rower. You could also do it on a bike, but you're really pushing Up around I don't know maybe I don't tend to measure heart rate But where it's I could not hold a conversation.

31:25I'm working. I'm working. I'm not sprinting But I'm working and then another time during the week a shorter workout of about 12 minutes It's gonna be three minutes of warm -up some calisthenics a little bit of cycling on an assault bike or something That sort of assault bikes are the ones where you have the handles with the fan Work of the a row or where it could be any sprinting a hill and then doing Sometimes one minute on one minute off for 12 minutes Sometimes doing 20 seconds on 10 seconds off for eight rounds And it's real work. It's getting the heart rate all the way up v02 max The combination of those three types of cardiovascular training sessions are that I'm ready to sprint for the airplane I'm ready to take a long hike anytime I'm I can go out for a two -mile run and really enjoy that if I if I need to it's a readiness thing And I think it covers all bases Am I ever going to be a marathoner or a champion sprinter with that or a myler?

32:14No, but that's not my goal and it never has been I ran a cross -country race in high school and we'll tell that story another time It was a lot fun Until I hit the second mile The other thing I do three times a week is I work out with resistance training I train my legs one day so that's calves hamstrings quads I train my torso so that's I do some pushing for my shoulders and upper chest and some dips that kind of things and pull up some rowing The sort of thing and train my neck because I'm a big believer in that for the upper spine, but Don't don't go at it heavy. It's just really to maintain you know posture and to make sure that upper spine is supported something that most people neglect And then one day a week I do smaller body parts like I'll do my cap the train my calves again biceps triceps I'll make sure that if there any small body parts that happen to miss during the middle of the week because of Scheduling like rear delts or something I'll do that maybe a little bit more neck work or some ab work.

33:11Okay Those are spread out about a day apart. I don't get too obsessed with the spacing between those workouts But they're not all stacked against one another so it might be in my case It's it's long run on Sunday. This is just how I do it Monday tends to be off Excuse me long run on Sunday or hike Monday as legs excuse me Monday as always legs Tuesday off Wednesday I generally do that shorter run or the torso work. I flip flop them depending on how my legs are feeling And the next day I do whatever I need to do either the torso resistance training or that or the 35 minute run And then Fridays that faster clip cardio saturday tends to be the smaller body parts biceps triceps etc I must say these days of the week always have the ability ability to slide one way or the other So for instance if I'm traveling and I don't get back on sunday out until late I'll if I was not able to do that training while I was on the road then I will do it On Monday and then I'll just slide things around so that I finish off the week with everything done And I can get back on schedule But the way I've arranged it everybody pockets it twice once directly once indirectly And the cardiovascular training is is covers all bases why train this way?

34:21Well It ensures strength it ensures whatever aesthetic changes you want You can emphasize working harder and more sets Perhaps for the things that you you know want to bring up certain body parts that are that are weaker You can Certainly recover because you're only training legs once a week But guess what you're you're doing them on monday and you're sprinting on friday So they're getting hit indirectly on friday even if it's on the bike Those that fast hard pedaling with resistance is going to make sure that Your legs aren't going to atrophy you can still get but you can still train them again on monday Again, so this schedule is designed in a very specific way None of the workouts except the longer workout on sunday that jogger runners longer than an hour ever It's 10 minutes of warm up in 50 -50 minutes of work in the gym sometimes 60 Sometimes I'll truncate to 45 or 40 if I'm really I have a bunch of things going on So this sort of schedule sounds like a lot but it's not it's actually a very small Investance about an hour a day and not even on Tuesday, which is a rest day So what are the metrics that I recommend checking?

35:21Well, I'm a big believer that if you're sleeping well and your appetite is consistent And you're feeling generally good that's an important metric It's a very subjective metric, but that's important. Are you sleeping well? Are you waking up sore and you're not able to recover? Are you feeling like no matter how much sleep you get you can't feel rested these kinds of things now There could be other factors involved But that's the you know sort of a basic one The other one is how much energy and pepper you bring into your workouts That's important and it we're late to caffeine and fueling and all those sorts of things which we're not talking about right now It's far too much to talk about here But we did cover in the foundational fitness protocol By the way, all of this is put into a PDF that's available online at HubermanLab .com zero cost Simply go to the newsletter tab under the menu and you can scroll down Find the foundational fitness protocol gets into sets and reps and loads and all that kind of stuff completely zero cost I do take my morning resting pulse rate I know what my pulse rate ought to be if it's elevated substantially And I'm not particularly stressed about something then I might pay attention to that and back off a little bit in the intensity on things If I have a throat tickler, I'm not feeling very well I'm really careful about working out sometimes I'll do it sometimes I won't I'll make sure that isn't just some sort of like dust or allergen in the environment But if I'm feeling under the weather, I'll take I'll just skip I just skip that workout And some people go oh you skip because you know, I'll be honest.