AMA #16: Sleep, Vertigo, TBI, OCD, Tips for Travelers, Gut-Brain Axis & More

0:00Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast where we discuss science and science -based tools for everyday life Hello everybody and welcome I want to thank all of you Premium Huberman Lab podcast subscribers for joining this is an exciting one even though the backdrop here looks very much like the studio back in the United States I am doing this AMA live from Sydney, Australia Where I and the Huberman Lab podcast team have been for well over a week where we were in Melbourne And we just did two live shows here in Sydney and we're headed off to Brisbane Tomorrow and it's been absolutely delightful that's so much fun Talking science learning from people.

0:48That's a wonderful place I want to get right into your questions and do my best to answer as many of them as possible as thoroughly Clearly and succinctly as possible over the next hour So I'm going to dive into those in just a moment just one last important thing before I do that Which is that I want to thank everyone for being a premium subscriber and Let you know that we Based on your contributions to the premium channel Have already as you know supported four laboratories at Stanford Columbia University Saul Institute and elsewhere for important projects on humans that are already leading to important therapeutic breakthroughs that we will soon share with you on the Huberman Lab podcast But that this year 2024 we were fortunate enough to secure No fewer than three dollar for dollar -match donors who have generously agreed to match our contributions from the premium channel to additional projects Those are going to Ad out to a number of different universities and Researchers working again on human studies so no animal studies human studies on important projects everything from novel treatments for mental health issues headache and migraine some interesting stuff on immunology and cancer mindsets and immune system function and Much much more also nutrition physiology exercise physiology etc So your contributions to the premium channel really do make a difference.

2:17I can say this Because I'm familiar with the challenges of raising funding for doing truly breakthrough work and getting things quickly out to the general public So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And now without further ado Let's get to your questions the first question Was is how are you managing to achieve your key health pillars while in Australia and Any other place you've enjoyed doing so all while working so hard Well, thanks for the question. I'll answer this question in the context of what I think we all can and should and Really will do because if you're a premium channel subscriber Certainly you're taking your health seriously so first off I think there's a bit of a misconception about the protocols on the human lab podcast being that We are all including myself super super regimented about them to the point where we don't enjoy other things in life And that's simply not true So I view the protocols of the human lab podcast as Science -based actionable low -cost zero cost minimal cost in almost all situations there are a few exceptions to that But it really designed to mesh with the rest of life and enhance mental health and physical health Which of course means remaining social staying on typical sleep schedules, etc So the big ones for me when arriving here were of course to get morning sunlight as often as possible It saw a beautiful sunrise this morning over Sydney, but even on the overcast days We've had a few rainy overcast days to really make it a point to get outside and to get that morning sunlight also Our crew did travel in with a Red light not a red light panel although I do have a couple red light panels those little portable ones That I use from time to time the red lights I'm referring to In reference to answering this question are the red lights which are just red light bulb that we I actually travel with a Red light bulb unit.

4:08It's just like a small, you know screw in unit you plug it in here Within adapter of course, and then in the evening We've switched off the lights in the place where we're staying and it just brings the overall levels of cortisol down Low very quickly and it makes it very easy to get to sleep each night It makes a big big difference and this is a very low cost tool. You could essentially purchase any Red light even read party lights and put those up and then switch off the regular overhead lights It makes a big difference. That's probably even cost saving. We've also stayed fairly regimented about exercise so this morning Took a great jog down to the ocean jumped in the ocean if you don't have access to an ocean on vacation Just getting outside and getting some movement early in the day can help shift your rhythm really the quad -fecta of Shifting your circadian rhythm in a new place or becoming an early riser if you want to do that is morning sunlight movement Social engagement and in my case caffeine although some people would opt for eating breakfast I just happened to prefer to eat a little bit later in the day So when you combine those things you are really amplifying that morning cortisol increase that I've talked about on the podcast Morning catacoleamine release so dopamine up an effort and nor up an effort and and those act in synergy to create more early day and daytime mood focus and alertness and enhance the transition to night time sleep but of course that dimming of the lights and maybe even red light in the evening Really really can help and so those are the biggies and then of course if you want to shift your circadian rhythm really quickly to be on a local schedule It helps to hop on the local meal schedule But for me that always means skipping breakfast.

5:40I'm not a big breakfast eater I like lunch and afternoon snack sometimes and dinner So when you do all of those things makes it very easy to stay with the health pillars and of course stress control is important We're doing lives. There's a lot of work to do so there's a Daily for me non -sleep deep rest or yoga nager protocol by the way You may be familiar with non -sleep deep rest and yoga nager a terrific zero -cost practice for reducing stress replacing We're replenishing dopamine and mental and physical vigor. I've talked about this and the studies that support this on the podcast There is a huberman nsdr script on youtube That's against zero cost, but while down here we recorded a 10 minute 20 minute and 30 minute nsdr Script with a view of a beautiful Sydney sunrise those should be posted to our huberman lab clips channel in the not too distant future probably in the next couple weeks And then you can have different duration nsdr scripts that you can use again complete these zero cost anytime you like We've recorded also some additional meditations and we're considering putting out a spotify album if you will of nsdr and meditations that are science -based of different durations.

6:49So if you like that idea maybe Just give a shout into the internet and hopefully we'll hear it or put a comment on in the latest Episode of the human lab podcast on youtube and if that sounds like a good idea to you We will do more of that these are again zero cost zero to access tools for enhancing mental health and physical health So combining all of those is really what we've done Next question was is I have followed your sleep advice and I have seen a huge improvement great happy to hear that Wonderful But I still wake up at night and only get five or six hours Is that enough? Can you please give more advice if possible?

7:26Well, first of all, thanks for tuning into the the sleep advice So the question of whether or not five or six hours is enough really depends on person context and by context I mean it can even change across the course of the year by life circumstances the criteria for insomnia are very clear Insomnia is excessive daytime sleepiness due to lack of sleep at night excessive daytime sleep Sleeping us due to lack of sleep at night So if you're not falling asleep during the day or you feel reasonably good throughout the day Maybe only need a brief 10 minute to 30 minute nap in the afternoon some people nap some people don't like to nap Doesn't matter But if you feel pretty good throughout the day and you have enough mental and physical energy and focus to complete the activities You need to complete and I wouldn't worry so much about five to six hours and I wouldn't obsess over you know these Kind of scary things that we hear we owe if we're not getting seven day hours that we get to mention Etc.

8:18That's not necessarily the case everyone has different sleep needs the other thing And this is perhaps the most important thing for everybody listening to this really to think about is qqrt Which is quality quantity timing excuse me quality quantity Regularity and timing qqrt qqrt Which is an acronym coined by the great matt walker author of the book why we sleep Yes, our own terrific podcast in his own right as a series on the human lab podcast coming out Soon qqrt Is what you really need to think about when you think about your sleep? So you want to think about the quantity how much are you getting well you Rima Who asked this question are getting five to six hours a night?

9:01Okay, what about the quality of that sleep is it consistently five to six hours with no breaks or is there a break in the middle one trip to the Restroom in the middle of the night is considered normal and healthy for most people if you're making multiple trips to the Restroom in the middle of the night you're waking up multiple times throughout the night on a regular basis that's something to try and overcome So the quality piece is important also whether or not you remember your dreams or you don't You want to make sure that you're getting ample amounts of slow wave sleep which dominates the first half of your sleep night and rapid Eye movement sleep which dominates the second half of your sleep night because they have different roles in recovery of brain and body namely So the quality Slow wave aka deep sleep is responsible for growth hormone release rapid eye movement sleep responsible for of the unpacking or the un coupling of emotions to Prior day and previous day experiences and in that way acts as a kind of Scrubbing out or a therapy for your emotional state.

9:59So are you feeling Emotionally rested when you wake up as a good indication of whether or not you're getting enough rapid eye movement sleep Some people like sleep trackers using their aid sleeper their looper their aura ring or something like that I'm a fan of sleep trackers but I Think that relying too heavily on sleep scores can be risky there are data from Ali crumbs lab at Stanford showing that if people receive a poor sleep score even though they sleep well their performance will drop if people get a good sleep score Even though Their their sleep was lousy Their performance is maintained or even enhanced so you don't want to Take any one sleep score and over interpret it you want to look at the average and compare that to your subjective experience Of sleep maybe I would say go about halfway through your day if you can bear to do it before looking at your sleep score And see how you feel then look at your sleep score as opposed to the other way around that might be a good way to adjust for that Belief effect I just mentioned But if you're getting enough quantity, let's say you get five to six hours and quality you're sleeping through that belt maybe with one A pack of waking up and then The regularity of your sleep is that you're going to sleep more or less at the same time each night plus or minus an hour On let's say five to six days per week because sometimes we like to stay up on a weekend night and have some fun or something like that and then The timing you know where that sleep is falling in your 24 hour schedule is really key and here's what we're learning as a field that for many people Who are Early to bed early to rise types if they go to bed around 9 p .m.

11:329 30 And they only get six hours of sleep they feel great Whereas if they get the equivalent amount of sleep, but go to bed at 11 p .m. or midnight they feel lousy Similarly if you're a night owl you're somebody that really prefers to go to bed around 1 or 2 a .m. And wake up around Let's say 10 a .m. If you take that equivalent amount sleep and you go to bed earlier You're going to feel not so good. So getting the timing of your sleep in the 24 hour cycle correct and fairly consistent That's the R part of QQQ RT Correct is going to be beneficial. So I wouldn't worry so much about five to six hours only Here's what I would do Rima.

12:10I would take that five to six hours and before getting out of bed each morning I would do a 10 to 30 minute NSTR non -sleep deep rest protocol which will allow you to feel deeply rested And frankly to recover whatever bits of sleep that you perhaps missed during the night I found that to be a tremendously beneficial practice waking up if I don't feel Thirly rested doing a 10 to 30 minute NSTR then getting out of bed and continuing the day And if you don't have time to do that do that 10 minute maybe 20 minute NSTR later in the day at any point And I think you'll see Terrific results not just because you're recovering some sleep that you Lost perhaps during the night or maybe you just need five to six hours But also because you'll get better at falling and staying deeply asleep Through the practice of NSTR in the morning or at some point throughout the day I wouldn't recommend anything else elaborate unless you're feeling really exhausted during the day in which case Then I would move to some of the more advanced sleep tools I've had vertigo.

13:12I should announce this is a question. I'm not just telling you about my vertigo I've had vertigo on And off and wonder what causes it is it hormones adrenals auto lists moving around This person knows about the cochlea hydration virus exposure Zinnana, I think is how you pronounce your name forgive me if that's not correct pronunciations Zinnana So vertigo is very interesting Um, unfortunately, it's uncomfortable But we can learn a thing or two right now that should be able to help you Zinnana and others Even if they haven't had vertigo so vertigo This perception of falling or dizziness needs to be distinguished from lightheadedness So if you're ever feeling dizzy It's worth stopping and sitting or if you can't sit standing and closing your eyes And asking yourself a question Do I feel like I'm ready to fall straight down or do I feel like I'm going to spin and fall down Because in answering that question you can determine whether or not you are lightheaded That would be the straight falling down or You have vertigo which is your dizzy which is that you're going to spin and fall down I do this in a safe place Please you can do this while bracing yourself against a wall or that's why I said ideally seated So you don't actually fall In most cases if you're feeling that spin if you're feeling truly dizzy you're feeling vertigo and I move my head or only on purpose then Chances are you've got some issue in either your visual system or your inner ear Okay, so since this is being recorded on video I can display what I'm about to say so your visual system and your inner ear system for balance have some really important features I'm going to make this a very quick tutorial Your head as you move through space is experiencing visual images going by all the time your retinas your eyes Essentially exposed to a lot of what's called visual slit Imagine you're walking and you're trying to take a picture on your iPhone or if you have an android phone on your android phone And you're moving it's going to be blurry right well.

15:20There's a stabilization process In your body and brain. It's a magnificent one That frankly is built into all jawed animals whereby Your head because it can move forward so think nodding right so this is pitch for you pilots right Yaw moving from side to side this would be the no This would be the no no so pitch yaw and roll which would be like the puppy look right pitch yaw and roll pitch yaw real Those are the three major angles of visual slip and in an absolutely magnificent Set of things Your inner ear has three hula hoop like shaped structures One that's arranged vertically So up on its end one that's at an angle of about 45 degrees to that and another that sits like a hula hoop flat on the ground And inside of each of those little hula hoop like tubes their little stones called autolists Okay, you heard that word earlier that roll around on the bottom just like marbles at the bottom of a hula hoop such that when you Pitch nod the marbles in the vertical hula hoop slide back and forth when you Say no The marbles in that hula hoop lying essentially parallel to the floor move Around and then the one at 45 degrees when you roll your head from side to side those move and each of those sends and neural signals That converge on the neural signals coming from the eye and get this When you move through space?

16:59There is a precise offset Of whatever visual slip you happen to be experiencing by walking Think images are moving you're looking up you're looking at building is you're looking around you're talking to somebody They're moving their head and your eye is making little tiny movements Little micro saccades on the millisecond time scale that act as a perfect image stabilizer So what this means This is by the way called the vestibular ocular reflex the stibular system ocular reflex and it's me through a structure called the cerebellum in the back of the brain This is why when you're on a boat When the horizon is tipping back and forth I have to be careful this because I have for such a prominent c -signus based on a prior experience That if I think about this too much I might get nauseous When that horizon is moving around your system becomes uncalibrated because you can't really keep the system jolting about in a regular way To be really careful here.

17:53I'm getting dizzy Um, so I said dizzy not lightheaded um And you will end up disrupting that slip process and you'll essentially Overcompensate which is why whenever you feel sick on a boat they say look at the horizon fixate to something at a distance Okay, so if you have vertigo Almost certainly there's something going on in your inner york. Yes, it can be caused by viruses. Yes, it could be caused by hormones These things tend to be transient But the most important thing is going to be to anchor the visual part of the vestibular ocular reflex So what you're going to want to do is you're going to want to fixate on a point Maybe three or four feet away And then you're going to actually want to move closer to that point or if you don't have access to it You would want to look at your hand You know your finger out in front of you and then slowly move it in Toward your nose at some point you'll feel like you're going to go cross -eyed and you can stop at that point Then move out again Then in again, what are you doing when you're doing this?

18:54What you're doing is you're overriding The error signals the incorrect error signals That exist in your kind of default setting at that when you have vertigo and you're forcing the visual component to dominate And then your inner your mechanisms will adjust to that So this is a very powerful tool if you ever feel nauseous or seasick It's a very powerful tool if you ever in like me you sit in the back of an uber and in the ubers too small You get out and you know like walk into a building where there are no windows I don't really feel good get outside and look at a fixation point some distance away This actually happened the other day we went to the gym we went inside this gym we'd been in a in a van and then went inside and We're not feeling well So we decided to get out and just take a walk and fixate to the longest distance possible the fresh air probably helped as well But when doing that You are anchoring the visual part of the vestibular ocular reflex Now that's far and away better than trying to avoid moving your head to not get those little stones moving around in the semi -circular Canals lots to say about this I could go on and on but hopefully you learn some biology and you learn to how to not be nauseous If ever you feel dizzy or nauseous based on movement motion sick and we can talk about why you get motion sick But it's through the vagus nerve etc etc But this is a very useful tool and if you're ever just not feeling well You know unless you have a fever or something like that I recommend getting outside and looking at the furthest fixation point with your vision that you possibly can and then walking toward it as far as you can safely If not by actually just doing a few of these Exercises of looking at your finger up close.

20:29That's going to be very good for anchoring the vestibular ocular reflex And not every time but many times people report feeling better especially if you've moved from one closed environment to another closed environment to another closed environment and so on Okay next question is What can be done to improve brain function for people that have been negatively impacted by things such as poor sleep poor diet and TBI early in life James yeah, this is a great question and I get this a lot I think that um it reminds me that a lot of the conversation that we have on the podcast Is about the good things that happen when you do things right and the bad things that happen when you do things wrong And while I think that's an important conversation what I've frankly failed to do Uh enough and that's why I'm grateful for this question Um because it gives me the opportunity to talk more about the fact that your your system is very robust there is neuroplasticity and also you know as my graduate advisor used to say you know time machines broken Which is not to say you know you're out of luck But I wouldn't spend any extra energy thinking about how many seat not seats Excuse me um how many have to be careful the seed oil debate is still a debate.

21:37It's unclear how many Transfacts you were exposed to in childhood, you know, we know trans fats are bad Everyone agrees they're bad governments agree they're bad This is perhaps one of the few things everybody agrees on in the nutrition space trans fats are bad Um when I was growing up trans fats were abundant in foods There were probably fewer of certain things that we have more of now that are bad But you know, we ate a lot of trans fats. We had margarine in our fridge There were other things that were probably weren't good for us that we consumed and everyone's in a while I'll think gosh, you know if I had only been eating you know grass fed meats and fruits and vegetables and And healthy grains as I do now back then imagine how much healthier I'd be but I really don't spend too much time on it And I don't think you should either.

22:18I think the most important thing to remember is that Biological systems unless they're really damaged, you know, you're talking about it, you know A major injury And even then they're very robust you can overcome Some Years decades of poor use or misuse of those systems that said if you have the opportunity to take care of them now I highly suggest you do so for instance if you haven't slept well for years now's the time to get it right I wouldn't worry about the past truly you can always rescue some of your health and health span and lifespan Poor diet same thing just it's a just do it kind of thing just hop on hop on the train of getting things right 80 to 90 % of the time TBI traumatic brain injury well the episode of the human lab podcast is out right now with Dr.

23:05Mark Despazito He's an MD and neurologist Originally trained at University of Pennsylvania now at University, California Berkeley. We talk about TBI You know, they're a lot different forms of TBI different origins You know everything from bomb blast to car accident to construction work to just you know slipped on the stairs at a party I know someone that slipped on Some wet floor at a party and you know has a brain injury What what do we know? Well you get back to the basics Sleep is going to be important But there are some things like trans cranial magnetic stimulation certainly things that reduce brain inflammation like lymphatic Outflow so glimphatic outflow is this washing of the brain at night that removes debris very very important In the weeks and months after traumatic brain injury to get adequate sleep for that reason But then there are things that also seem to perhaps improve outcomes from traumatic brain injury such as hyperbaric chamber So hyperoxygenation treatments if you have access to those Even things like elevating the feet slightly when you sleep by about five to 15 degrees is known to increase glimphatic flow during sleep which can we believe By way of increased clearance of a bunch of basically debris reactive oxygen species within the cells But also debris outside the cells in the extra cellar space so between neuron.

24:30So if it isn't just empty space There's all this um like heavily glycocylated stuff Which basically just means this kind of like spongy carbohydrate stuff that fills in the spaces the clearance of some of the Metabolites and some of the debris that's accumulated there by just sleeping with feet slightly elevated Definitely not falling asleep in a chair upright. That's the worst thing for glimphatic flow Things like that some people will go kind of bonkers on all things anti -inflammation They start taking tons of curcumin and they kind of get obsessed with inflammation as as the enemy I wouldn't do that in fact.

25:00There's some negative effects of things like curcumin turmeric if you take in high doses like limiting the amount of the hydrotestosterone Production which is not good. You don't want that Male or female you don't want to take too much turmeric or curcumin They're really issues with that Um to say nothing of the studies they've showed in lead contamination and a lot of turmeric So you want to check the sourcing very carefully if you do consume any turmeric a little bit is probably fine Cooking with it is fine, but we're here. We're talking about supplementation and and you know just really not trying to turn Inflammation into this terrible thing to the point where you're starting to do other things that are potentially damaging There's some really interesting evidence that five grams maybe 10 grams depending on your body weight of creatine monohydrate per day can enhance creatine phosphatementabolism in the forbrain and enhance brain function under conditions of high altitude or TBI I take five to 10 grams of creatine just creatine monohydrate powder And frankly any creatine monohydrate powder should be sufficient.

25:59There are other forms of creatine They are not any better creatine monohydrate is the least expensive fortunately That mixed in water you take it with or without food some people ask if this creatine make your hair fall out No, it does not make your hair fall out But some people do experience a increase in DHT with with creatine monohydrate and there can be a DHT hair loss link So if you think you're losing your hair from taking creatine then stop and see do the control experiment It should grow back but five to 10 grams of creatine monohydrate something to explore hyperbaric chamber something to explore Excellent sleep definitely do that and I just wouldn't obsess over past Iles or wrongs to the extent that It impacts your ability to try and correct those in the present I would say that about most everything but then again I understand that as humans because we can remember the past the present and the future That sometimes you know, it's difficult to let go of the mistakes of past that we made but that's just simply Being human and I don't have a solution to that Are we any closer to finding the cause of OCD?

27:01Well, I think we know what causes OCD I think it's pretty clear that OCD is some form of Miss wiring in the basal ganglia the structures of the brain that are involved in go action and no go withholding action type behaviors and some Malwiring of those structures to the dopamine reward system because here's what's interesting about OCD OCD involves Obsessions obviously that's the O and OCD compulsions the actions that's the C in OCD But in a kind of weird twist of the neurology OCD is a situation where the compulsion Does not remove the obsession rather it exacerbates it okay? The compulsion does not remove the obsession it exacerbates it so unlike an itch that you scratch With OCD the scratching of the itch makes it worse which is actually what we experience when we Have a mosquito bite which by the way have absolutely low with mosquito bites.

28:01It's one of my like least favorite things in life I've about 30 600 and counting pet peeves. That's definitely high on the list of those the obsessive compulsive disorder is one that really needs to be treated frankly neurologically It's one for which there are behavioral interventions, but it's clear that adjusting the pharmacology of The neural circuits involved in OCD really can help there again. There are behavioral treatments, but for severe cases of OCD It's just very very clear that interventions which include SSRIs which have been demonized a lot of people say Oh, so selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors are terrible bubble blood You know the serotonin hypothesis of depression is in true well listen the reality is this That all treatments for depression that are effective Which include SSRIs in some cases Cardinal behavioral treatments all of these sorts of things which are shown efficacy are all about what they're not about serotonin They're about neuroplasticity.

29:02That's why some anti -depressant center on dopamine and neuroponephrine other center on serotonin they're about neuroplasticity. They're about changing neural networks They're not about a neurochemical per se but the neuromodulators such as serotonin Allow and access point they are a wedge into the neuroplasticity process now with OCD in order to overcome these these malwirings It's very important to get plasticity. How do you get plasticity? Well you in my belief you work with an excellent psychiatrist who can prescribe the appropriate dose of drug to Release the appropriate amount of neuromodulator then and this is really key You have opened up the window for plasticity, but then it's really important that the proper behaviors Are engaged in and when I did an episode on no CDI talked about what some of these are for instance The person is exposed to the stimulus that causes the obsession or maybe this obsession arises spontaneously They feel the impulse to complete the compulsion the behavior and they resist With the support of a therapist, but they're doing this in the context of having elevated levels of serotonin Or some other neuromodulator that then allows fewer trials of resistance Fewer times of needing to withhold the the behavior that this person so badly wants to perform Because it's coming from within as this compulsion literally Then they are able to achieve plasticity more quickly perhaps also transcranial mind -nites simulation So a conjunction of the correct behavior the withholding behavior maybe a replacement behavior That's often used user replacement behavior with the appropriate neurochemical milieu is the solution to OCD Okay, next question is I'm just going to New York City from San Francisco.

30:49How do I control shifting my circadian rhythm by only three hours? So if you're going to New York City from San Francisco the best way frankly would be to get up an hour earlier Two days before you head off to New York and then another Day you might try and shift by two hours before you go and then Head to New York and do the last shift on the last day Um most people won't do that. It's just you know it takes a little bit of work But um, they just don't have the the time ability or your discipline to do that but It is perhaps the best way I would say the best thing to do is to know Your temperature minimum and I'll try and keep this pretty simple if you typically wake up at 8am Let's say just by way of example that means that your minimum body temperature is at 6am Which means that if you want to get up earlier In the days where you traveled to New York well in the couple of days before you leave Anytime between 6am and 10am get some bright light in your eyes even if you go back to sleep So for instance get up at 6am said an alarm clock I know you normally like to get up at 8am get up at 6am get some bright light in your eyes from artificial sources or from sunlight Maybe 5 -10 minutes then go back to sleep until 8am You do that again the next night and then you head off to New York.

32:04You'll find the shift to be much easier Now here's what you don't want to do you want to make sure that you do not View bright light before 6am so in the middle of the night if you get up You need to use the restroom trying to use dim lights as dim as a safely possible etc And what are you doing when you're doing this yet? I could get into a long description of the science behind this and I'll probably do a podcast all about this at some point But really what you're doing if you get up at 6am and getting some bright light exposure is you think about it You're kind of looking at a New York sunrise of sorts Okay, if it's not a sunrise you're getting some bright light the mimics sunrise at least to some extent nothing's quite like sunrise But to some extent so in that sense even if you go back to sleep what you're doing is you're sending the light signal The zeitgabre the time signal to your circadian clock of your hypothalamus that it should shift that you need to get up earlier And indeed that will happen over the course of about two three days the other thing you can do and I know this is um This is kind of Rare these days to get an answer like this the other thing you can do is just fly to New York and force yourself to get up and just Drink caffeine and get out and exercise and use the social rhythm of the activity of the city in order to get up earlier But you will feel lousy late morning and so you would only want to do that if you could access a brief nap of anywhere from 30 to 90 minutes Late morning and then you'll feel fine, but my suggestion would be to Some something back there like some animal or something like that answer so much so like that Yeah, it would be to just Trying to get a little bit of light exposure a couple hours before your normal wake up time then go back to sleep in the two days before You head off to New York city and of course everything here was set in the context of the New York City um So flight from San Francisco in New York City, but the but the principal the logic holds and if you have any questions about this temperature minimum and wake up time And you want to get your circadian Clock right for travel check out the episode that we did on jet lag and shift work And I'm realizing now as I say this and I'm my teams here and they're listening That I will do a video on the human lab clips channel where I explain temperature minimum and how to Plug in your wake normal wake up time in order to essentially arrive at whatever time shift you want We should probably put that out as a newsletter too, which is a little chart where it says I currently wake up at 8 a .m And then which means my and then they'll say subtract two hours my temperature minimum is 6 a .m And I want to travel to whatever it is.

34:33I don't know Sydney, Australia on this date from this city And then we know the time change and then I can tell you exactly what to do for a couple days I've done this um for various military groups have done this for people and Close friends and who travel a lot and it works fabulously well I can't eliminate jet lag for you don't I wish I could just Well eliminate jet lag I can't do that But I definitely can have the time that it takes for you to shift maybe more Hi, hi, I love this in the show. Thank you. Thanks for coming out. Thanks for coming to Australia. Thanks for having us I take fish oil, but I'm not sure I'm getting the dose right what are your thoughts on fish oil and dose I have lots of thoughts on fish oil.

35:12I think it's a terrific tool I think every time I see a study or a news article saying fish oil not shown to I just go oh gosh All right, well listen whoever's reading wrote that article, you know, I um I take no pleasure in Your declining health spanner lifespan, but what so ever but um the rest of us are gonna be taking fish oil And here's why there's just oh so much evidence they're getting enough omega -3 fatty acids is great for brain health body health and I think that the the issue around fish oil is typically around contaminants So you want to make sure they doesn't have loads of mercury.

35:46So things like sardines cod liver oil etc You can get those from natural sources except there's one problem I hate sardines and I don't want to slurp down a bunch of cod fat I'm just not interested in that so if you eat a lot of fatty ocean fish and it's really clean fish great I don't most people don't So I believe in taking a high quality fish oil there are a lot of different sources of these In fact in the episode that we do with dr. Ronda Patrick There's a link in the show note captions I believe that takes you to a chart Of the different fish oil sources and their love relative levels of contaminants etc But most of the reputable brands out there are not going to have any contaminants because they've been cleaned out It's been checked for so um I take the fish oil from a g1 or from momentus That's just me there a lot of other great sources out there But I will say this that's when I'm traveling and I take capsules typically I like to take it in liquid form And I will take the taken liquid form I have no financial relationship to the to the liquid non capsule forms of fish oil And I get the one that has a lemon flavor to overcome the absolutely disgusting flavor of cod liver oil I guess I don't know presumably cod like this today still cod liver oil but I don't so That's what I do.

37:03I'll take a tablespoon of that once a day and a protein shake It tastes like lemon it doesn't take it's like cod and goodness And when I travel I take the capsules from a g1 or momentus or they're excellent ones from other sources Okay, lots of great sources out there now. What are we trying to do when we take fish oil Yes, it can reduce inflammation Yes, it can do a number of different things, but that's all by way of omega -3 fatty acid intake right most people get far too much omega -6 Right, this is why there's a seed oil debate We're not gonna have that debate now We put us all to sleep frankly the key thing is to get enough omega -3s and they're hard to get unless you're eating krill So unless you're large, you know, boing whale You're probably not eating that much krill If you're getting fatty fish great, but when you take an omega -3 fatty acid in the form of fish oil Or you eat sardines for that matter What you're getting essentially is the substrate for a lot of other important building blocks Not the least of which is the lipid bilayer that surrounds the neurons of your of your Your brain and so basically the omega -3 fatty acids provide the substrate for some key building blocks of nerve cells and other cells in the brain and body and and this is Perhaps the most important reason I can think of when you get out past one gram of the EPA form of omega -3 Okay, one gram of EPA form of omega -3 per day It's clear there's a either mild to moderate anti -depressant effect so much so that one can in some cases talk to your psychiatrist or psychologist partially offset the dosage of any Anti -depressant I am not telling you to go off anti -depressant medication and go on to fish oil That is not what I'm saying.

38:42I'm just saying that there's some impressive clinical trials showing that fish oil If taken at dosages of one to three grams of EPA per day Can have a mild to moderate anti -depressant effect and I don't know anyone that wouldn't want to have better mood So I take one and a half grams of EPA, which is not to say one and a half grams of fish oil You need to look at the package and see how much fish oil but then look at how much EPA and typically It's less than one gram per serving so you may have to take two servings So I'm gonna say well is it safe to take two servings? I don't see any reason why not And then of course, there are the high potency fish oils for which there is certainly one gram or more of EPA Keep in mind that all this discussion about fish oil might sound kind of health food hippie store Forgimme hippies health food store kind of stuff But the reality is that EPA high concentration EPA is actually a prescription drug in the United States and elsewhere prescribed often for Enhancing mental health enhancing cardiovascular health and on and on so you know, we're not out on a limb Or out on a fin as it were when we're having this discussion we're actually just Talking about something for which there's a lot of clinical evidence There's a lot about chemical evidence.

39:55There's a lot of mechanisms So I take anywhere from one to two grams of EPA per day even if that requires taking six rather than the suggested three Capsules per day or taking a full table spoon or even two tablespoons of fish oil and Frankly, most people are getting too much omega six fatty acids and not enough omega three so shout out to the fish oils What is the recommended protocol for measuring hormone levels? Interesting how frequently do you advise monitoring these levels to accurately determine their typical range? And I just have to try and pronounce your name Valade res nishenko. What a cool name.

40:31Valade Just a big fan of like two syllable first name. Oh no, no, and today all right So Valade res nishenko Thank you for this question and the opportunity to try and pronounce your name. So hormone levels I think a good thing to do is in the absence of any apparent or suspected endocrine dysfunction Right, so we're talking about you feel pretty good. You're wondering if you're good under If I say good under the hood that to sounds like weird it rhymes. So if you're feeling pretty good I recommend getting your hormone levels checked once If you can if you're still in your teens in your late teens after you've gone through puberty to establish a sort of baseline Most people won't do that because it's too late.

41:15I didn't do that once in your mid -twenties again, we're talking about no suspected or apparent endocrine dysfunction, okay, in your mid -twenties So you have a baseline something to compare to when you were in your say 18 to 20 and again and when you're 25 That would be ideal and then again I would say when you're 30 and then start once a year starting when you are 40 or older I think that just you know just logically I would love to know what my hormone levels were when I was 25 when I was 30 Maybe when I was yeah when I was 18 25 30 35 and actually 35 is when I got my first blood blood draw for just getting a look under the hood like what's there?

42:04What what what are my estrogen levels? What are my testosterone levels or my growth hormone levels this kind of thing? And then once you're 40 and older I think once a year Minimum and I realized that some people out there are gonna say well that's ridiculous Who what are you gonna do with that information? Well, you're gonna do a lot with that information You're gonna figure out whether or not your LDL cholesterol is in healthy range You're gonna figure out whether or not your ALT is in healthy range You're gonna figure out whether or not your APOB is in healthy range or you're you're gonna figure out a lot more than just whether or your testosterone is You know 400 600 800 or or 1200 And I think we also need to be careful about over interpreting results of hormones Because a lot of it has to do with the ratio of testosterone estrogen or The ratio of free testosterone to testosterone both in men and women So for instance if your testosterone level is 900, but your free testosterone level is two Well, then you have a problem whereas if your total testosterone level is 500 or 600, but your free testosterone level is you know 15 Well, then you're probably doing pretty well So I would say Getting your hormone levels checked once a year after age 40 and prior to that once every three to five years Starting at about age 18 would be ideal But most people don't do that they either don't have the disposable income I certainly didn't when I was 18 20 25 and I at that time it was really hard to get that measured unless you had a clinical problem now if anyone has a clinical problem That they suspect or is real then obviously more testing I think great sources for endocrine profiling are things like inside tracker full disclosure They are a sponsor of the podcast, but they do an excellent job to leave and come to your house the flambatomus will come to your house If you want or you can go to a clinic so that they make it all very easy But there are other sources as well, right?

43:53I'll never make these am a's or anything else about specific Companies for for its own sake. I just think inside tracker. Just a great job There are a number of clinics like marital and others online clinics that will do that But it's part of a more comprehensive package of of agreeing to work with them At least that's how I understand it. I hope I didn't get that wrong But check and see nowadays it's pretty easy to find um Ways to get your hormones check, but I would Suggest that the following things at least beyond there Growth hormone or IGF one rather IGF one testosterone estrogen This is true for women and men um, by the way, so IGF one testosterone estrogen it will show up as estradiol on their free testosterone Dihydrotestosterone cortisol keep in mind morning cortisol is always elevated relative to afternoon cortisol Um, it will be impacted by food So you want to go in fasted in the morning um, ideally get this done early Uh, your creatinine levels which by the way will be elevated if you're taking creatine or your exercising hard The doctor will say your creatinine levels are elevated and you say well great Well, my preaching intake is elevated too, so you know um take that It's not going to be a problem necessarily to check with your doctor LDL cholesterol apob and um, there are probably a few others that that would be good Having there for men and women sex hormone binding globulin sex at SHBG and for women especially progesterone and prolactin Um and proge and any of the progestins are going to be important and of course for women The trick is going to be when you get your blood taken with respect to your hormone cycle here ovulatory cycle and to try and make that at least consistent from test to test Not necessarily having to go in both during the follicular and the luteal phase Of the your cycle, but always going in during you know mid follicular or midluteal and that can be challenging to do Perhaps but that's going to be important because of course those are widely fluctuating levels across across the cycle But um unless you're really obsessed with your hormone levels And analyzing them taking them at multiple times throughout your menstrual cycle probably not necessary Unless you're starting to think about conceiving or there's some issue PCOS or other issue Okay, I find that I need to do nsdr after working out any thoughts on this um Yes, well first of all I'm glad you're using nsdr zero cost tool known to replenish mental and physical vigor works Oh so well I think it's great.

46:22I think it probably is accelerating your recovery. I think this tells me that you're probably working out really hard Um and hopefully not too long if you find that you work out in the morning and then you're really really sleepy in the afternoon And the next day you might be working out too long or too hard And so maybe ratchet back the intensity a little bit or the duration. It's amazing how Great we can feel when we work out to like 80 to 90 % of our maximum output And duration we did this the other day we you know the you know we we went out for a little jog run bounding skipping Jumping jack thing and stopped at like 80 to 90 % of maximum and then went about the rest of the day and evening feeling great If you do this, you know consistently you'll find you have more energy and there's actually a lot of Solid physiology and physics to support why that is as opposed to if you go to the gym and you do every set to failure or even Every exercise you include one set to failure and you're grinding out four straps or you're I don't know what kind of exercise You're doing or you're running more and more distance each day or with more intensity You know, it's understandable how one gets kind of drawn to or addicted to that burn or the effort But keep in mind that is stress you're you're stressing the body to produce a certain kind of adaptation either endurance or strength or hypertrophy Or etc adaptation.