Espresso: 5 Negotiation Hacks from Dragons Den

0:08What I want to talk about is negotiation and this is kind of personally for me so I used to work for a business and it's much easier when you're negotiating for a business. because ultimately it doesn't really affect, you may get a bonus, which is great, but you still get the salary coming in. Whereas now I'm on my own, I'm having to negotiate my own deals. What I'm struggling with is how to separate myself from the actual business. Whereas when you're actually working somewhere else, it's really easy. It's like, you know, it's much easier to negotiate. What I'd love to know, and this will help loads of listeners, and you're obviously clearly with the example he gave her the coffee with the coffee and the sugar and that dickhead um is is to go into some negotiation principles but i think to open it up like what what's been like the most intense negotiation you've you've had to go through in your career yeah so without a doubt like oh my god and i've been through some pretty hectic negotiations without a doubt it was my negotiate my negotiating with the Clapham house group when I bought the Bombay bicycle club.

1:25So I used to work for David and Paul who had the, the Clapham house group when I was at, um, pizza express. So I had a house group. I'm just, I'm house group with the people that I bought the Bombay bicycle club with. So they were like, it was negotiating the, how we split the equity and the deal and the, um, the entire financial structure of it. And they used to be my bosses. So that made it very, very difficult. And I actually had to walk away from the deal. And I meant it, meant it, when I walked away. They took me to a point where I was like, this is never going to work. I am going to go and buy a different group of Indian restaurants, and I'm still going to have the largest chain of Indian restaurants in the UK.

2:15I'm just not going to do it with you. And I remember where I was stood when I said that. I can still feel my heart. My heart actually, my heart rate goes up. I think my pulse must have been about 160 at this point. You know, it was, I couldn't believe it. It's like Sarah the Small, what the hell was I saying? You know, I was really young at the time. I was still in my 20s. um but I remember meaning it absolutely meaning it and that's but what I learned and I'd seen them negotiate a lot as well because I had worked with them for years and I knew exactly how they negotiated I knew all their tactics so but that was without a doubt I'd spent nearly a year trying to buy that business um and i was i walked away from it i got it back obviously but because that's what history tells you you just need to google it so i got it back but um i walked away and that was definitely the hardest negotiation i've ever i've ever done but god it taught me a lot what so why why did you walk away and then what did it teach you but what was the so i walked away because we were nowhere near what I needed the deal to be in order for it to work for me we were it was never going to work right um and in the end after a night of reflection really I just said to myself well hang on I'm so focused on this business because I spent a year trying to buy it and I know this business inside and out and I know what I'll go and do with it why don't I just go and buy another one um and make that the largest chain of India restaurants I know the team I know where else I can get the money from I don't need them I'm gonna walk away and there was real strength in that inside me even though it was I felt sick saying it um but it worked and it wasn't it was not a negotiating tactic it was genuine I was walking away I was I was done um but it worked and we did end up getting a really good deal and everything you know I did end up getting exactly what I wanted and it all worked out great and history tells you that it was a you know it was a good business and blah blah so it was all worked out really well in the end but um at that time that was the hardest thing I've done is like you know in that moment was part part of that negotiating was was to walk away from it that was really difficult well I love to second you did ask me a second question what did I say sorry the second question yeah is like what did how did this area change pre that phone after that phone call basically like how did you change so I think it was a real moment actually of separating to your point of separating myself from a negotiation, I found it so personal.

5:26I felt like it was, it was like a personal attack that they were undervaluing me. You know, I was in my late twenties, I didn't know any better. And I'd seen how they dealt with lots of other people. And I was like, God, you know, how can they treat me the same? And And I felt it. I took it personally. But that moment of me walking away, and then of course we came back and it all worked out great. I have never taken it. It's never been personal since that moment. I have absolutely had the ability to just be strong and separate myself from the negotiation. the other thing that I learned from that negotiation as well and I've carried that with me ever since is always to manage expectations and I see it oh my god I must see it in 90 plus percent of the negotiations that I go into where expectations are not managed so if you let's say for example you're trying to sell a business and you have a magic number right doesn't matter how realistic or unrealistic that magic number is like basically you won't sell for less you've got to manage expectations and people don't because people think oh well what if i might get more or you know i don't want to leave money on the table well firstly when you're trying to sell a business you've got to leave money on the table that's essential otherwise nobody's going to buy it so get that out of your head in the first place and secondly um it is really what was I just in the middle of saying I can't remember what I was saying it's about managing expectations and you see it like magical number most brands managing expectations of people around you it's really really important so people don't do it because they think that they're going to leave money on the table that's what I was going to say so don't be greedy in a negotiation just be honest with yourself I will do it for this.

7:38That's it. This is what I will do it for. It's not negotiation. I'm just being really straight. That's what I will do it for. Now, one of the things that I learned from them, and I've seen it with a lot of other people as well, is they come in really, really low and they do that to try and knock your confidence in a negotiation. So people, so let's say, I'll just use numbers to make it. Let's say this is worth£10 ,000 and I think it's worth£10 ,000 pounds and they probably think it's worth eight let's say and i think it's worth 10 they'll come in at one and a half and be brutal because then you're like oh my god maybe it's not worth 10 so you then already are probably down at seven yeah because they're knocking your confidence and suddenly you're settling at five where frankly they would have been prepared to pay eight in the first place but it's a tactic and a lot of people use that tactic so when you go into a negotiation of any kind and this really helped me with the Bombay Bicycle Club negotiation you have to know what great looks like don't go ever go into a negotiation without knowing what great looks like for you you you say this is what great looks like to me in your head you know what what are you trying to achieve here what does great look like and what does walk away look like and then chances are you'll meet somewhere in the middle but you stick to it and you have to separate yourself from from the negotiation quick one guys espressos have got a brand new sponsor unleashed unleashes inventory management software that talks directly to your finance and econ software we use unleashed daily islands i bloody love it we've got our admin time in half saving approximately 30k a year why use it save money save headaches save stress get granular clarity on your margins know where your stock is don't miss availability look your favorite brands literally use unleashed as their backbone candy kittens tiny rebel trip always religiously look there's a link in the show notes please feel free to book a call with josh and his wonderful sales team at unleashed they're amazing even nothing comes of it and even better news you'll get your first month free if you reference hungary thank you why i love your story sarah is almost two instances with the clapham house negotiation and the coffee is you've had your david versus goliath moment but you've come out swinging do you know what i mean which is amazing yeah you have to stun i mean they still they're still uh goliath right you know yeah it doesn't change anything but how goliath makes you feel you can control yeah so having so having like what you actually want in the negotiation i think also be prepared for them to anchor you like well in your in in the back of your court basically is there any other tactics you've learned like you've you've been around some when we obviously gone done way more negotiations and pretty much everyone listening to this like what else have you learned that could be really super valuable do you think so you have to assess your worth um and that can be a very difficult thing to do you have to understand what are you worth to them you know what what you have to put yourself in the shoes of the person sat opposite at you to understand where the negotiation could go and I think if you don't understand the other side of the table you have less chance of making making something work my husband and I actually have very very different quite not very different but quite different negotiating the way in which we negotiate he is he's softer and is it takes him longer to say what it is that he's looking for so he builds a relationship builds a relationship builds a relationship whereas i manage expectations very quickly up front both can work you know but you have to assess who you're with and often we'll go into a negotiating situation and we'll have the first meeting and we will go no this one's for me or we'll go no this one's definitely for you you need to lead on this interesting yeah and that depends on the person so some of the businesses that we've bought within nightcap, for example, without, I mean, Michael, that's his job within nightcap anyway, so he would always lead on them.

11:59But there have been some instances where it's been very obvious that actually the way I would manage a negotiation might work better in a situation. So I might take over or step in or come in for a couple of meetings and leave. And there's been others where he it's so him that I'm not allowed near the deal because actually he's built such a strong relationship with these people that he needs to take he needs to take it over the line and that that again but it still comes down to us understanding fundamentally what is driving the person on the other side of the table so when it's for example quite a big ego and maybe they don't really want to sell or it's difficult um definitely michael you know he'll always empathize and be amazing with that with that character when it's more contractual i'll probably get the job done a lot quicker and cleaner and you know everybody appreciates the fact that i'm really straight talking always manage expectations we all know where we are um whereas if it's somebody that's quite transactional, they might prefer that way of working to Michael's way of working, if you see what I mean.

13:17So usually between the two of us, I mean, Michael could do both. It's what he does and he's brilliant at it. And I can do both if I want to, but this is kind of a natural way of negotiating. So you've got to understand, you know, what does great look like to you but then also as part of that it's really important to understand what what are you worth to them what we said what we said at the beginning when we were talking about Raymond Blanc about going with your nature and it's like it's the same the negotiation of going with with your natural style and I think I think a lot of the books I've read because at the minute I am very much a small fine i'm having to negotiate with with bigger people but i'm having to separate myself from that but i think a lot of these books like almost tell you to be this bloody american cop do you mean or like this fbi investigator it's like if that's not your not if that's not your natural just go with your go with your natural kind of yeah go go with your nature that's super valuable thank you so so much for listening it honestly means the world to me i hope you enjoyed your morning coffee and go and have an amazing day let's be having ya if you want the fun episode it will be in the show notes a link will be in the show notes the full episode thank you so much please stay friends as well it means the world to me