Espresso: GAIL's Founder - AVOID this common mistake EVERY Leader makes

0:02What is society rewarding the person that goes in with a lot of self confidence and then changes things quickly. quickly. You know, they see that something needs to get better and they change it rather than rewarding the person that goes in and tries to understand something deeply. Right. And then, and then make it better. And I think this is a whole different mindset. And, you know, this, so for me, the big monster out there is, is this, this, this, you know, mindset that you have to, you know, that, you know, you're in there to, you know, you know, to, to change it before you know it. Right.

0:36Change it before you know it. Wow. To not understand a baker before you try to change kind of the ingredients that the baker might have or where you might sell it to or how how the whole system works and I think that's a huge failure if you're going to run a craft business right everybody has to first get in the mind of a baker right and then say and and be serving that ethos and then from that ethos okay you know you can play jazz you can take it take it this way take it that way but you know you have I don't I don't you can't do that here until So you put in the time for me, understanding what the ethos of the baker is.

1:11And that is like, that's a monster that you slay all the time. You just have to keep vigilant and say, I'm not letting that in. You know, because sometimes it's very tempting. You say, oh, shit, that's a really good idea. You know, but it's not connected. Give an example. You know, I always get people doing something like celebration cakes. They're like, look, you're bakers. You know, you do this, you're all this stuff. You know, you got all these connections to customers and everybody has a birthday and everybody has celebrations and they keep on asking for stuff. And I go to my bakers and they're like, you know, that's about decoration, right?

1:46And it's not about, it's nothing to do with, you know, baking or, you know, it's adjacent, but it's not really who they are and who they think they are, what they're doing. And so we just haven't done it. You know, when I find somebody who loves that bit, it's fine. But for me to go chase like some idea that, you know, that's when you don't understand what a craft baker does. I mean, our kind of craft baker, you know, is making bread, you know, and dealing with fermentation. And it's just a different mindset. There's a craft to leadership, I think. Yeah. And you said sort of patience, patience slowing down, details.

2:26Is this expertise, like growing expertise? What would you say, I know Marta's amazing. She's sort of, I don't know how long she's been here, actually, but yeah. seven eight years seven eight years what she taught you about the craft of of leadership do you think yeah i think look there's a lot of people i'm a product person like for me you know i buy into you know you know if the whole world had to leave one thing you know you you'd want to like focus on the you know the product right and and people will build their careers and their understanding of themselves and each other through the product through through this through this attempt to make an amazing product.

3:06Okay. I think there's another group, and it's not totally different, but you can look at the world a different way and say, look, let's get the people trained and in the right mindset and the right space so that they can do the product. Right? And I think there's a – look, I don't think there's a right or wrong way. I think to make a great product, you need people's brains and attitudes to come in. but what do you what would you start with it's a chicken and the egg thing i think how do you make a great product do you start with great people or do you start with a focus on product and you start creating the people around that what did you did you guys do the product or people well i think we always built the business like with roy around product like you know we are just and that but you know it's like it's not what i invented when i came in and i saw gail with these 35 you know highly skilled bakers.

4:00Just listen, you know. I wanted to talk, right? But then I told myself to shut up, you know, and just... That's a really interesting... That's the leadership nuance right there is don't, you know, shut up. Yeah, that's right. I was going to say that's maybe the greatest lesson of leadership. Shut the fuck up for a second. Yeah. So what were you... When you said, like, just shut up, like, what were you trying to soak in? I can tell you what it happened, right? Okay, talk me through that. So did you think that, like, I, you know, I went to business school, then I went to McKinsey, which is a consultant.

4:31And you're just taught to make, your job is to make sure, you know, as soon as somebody tells you the beginning of a problem, you set out structuring it and solving it for them, right? Helping them solve it. Sorry, beginning of a problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what I was trained to do. So when I went, I met Gail. She was going to lose her house and her car, and this whole bunch of stuff was just falling apart. And the guy who was running it was getting drunk at lunch and punching the bakers. And we were just like, this can't go on. There was a humanity part for me, which is just like, that's not fair.

4:57That's not right. So that's why we decided to help her for a year. So the baker's, well, the bloke who's running it is punching the bakers. She's about to lose everything. Talk me through that. So it's my first month or two. Yeah, talk me through the first month. What does that look like? We have some really amazing customers making amazing stuff. And I remember one chef called me and was like, hey, Tom, you know, I know it's a bit late. Can you double the number of potato rosemary sourdough you can do? I said, well, how much are you taking? He's like, well, I'm taking, I think it was like four or six or something like that, right?

5:26So it's that number. And I was like, no problem, you know, another sale, happy chef, you know, I'm kind of the business guy. I'm just getting my head around baking. I'm thinking this is like an obvious one, but I've got to go tell the guys, you know. So I go down, I told the guys, you know, can we, you know, double that? They're like, no way. I was like, are you kidding me? No, no, no, we can't because it's going to stress the mother dough. And, you know, I can't, I'm not going to take a risk with the mother dough. yes and i was like seriously and he's like yeah absolutely seriously and i was like okay you know you've been here longer than i have so i go back to the chef and you know instead of him going expecting like him to yell at me he's like oh that's cool totally respect that uh what else could he do oh he's like yeah maybe you know you can spread that over a couple loaves that would be great and i went back and said yeah i can do that but i just you know i gotta protect my mother dose.

6:18I have to protect my craft. I have to protect my ingredients. I can't just be shooting out volume. I need to be doing quality. That's what the message was. And it also taught me I knew shit, right? I knew fuck all, right? There's this chef and this baker and I'm this guy in between. But that made me understand I have a lot to learn. Thank you so much for listening to That Espresso. I hope you enjoyed your morning coffee and are ready for the day. let's be having your boy and please do subscribe follow the podcast share this espresso on whatsapp if you liked it and also there's a link to our newsletter in the show description i spend 15 hours toiling and writing this bad boy it's full of wonderful wisdom from the biggest names in food and drink you're not going to get these in a business book so please subscribe and thank me later.

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