Planet Organic founder: What ACTUALLY Went Wrong?

48:23So it's looking after the team in that way. They weren't doing that. And that starts to, I think, create unrest. That then creates a different experience for the customer. you know, then we're not, then we're just like another grocery store. And the whole point of Planet is that we're different. And we have this specialness about us. Moving away from organic, well, then what's our point of difference? You know, when Whole Foods came into the UK, I was shit scared because I know them from the States. And I was like, oh my God, you know, they're the size of Waitrose. What are we going to do in the face of that?

48:57And I said, go deep with our values. Go organic. We are the organic specialist. They didn't do that. So if you move away from that, then there are a lot of other supermarkets doing good organic. So you're diluting the brand and the values. And then I think the thing I didn't say is I think there was greed. And I think when you talk about corporate people coming into small business or entrepreneurial business, that the mismatch that I've seen with in my life and in my work with clients is those entrepreneurs are led by values. They're not, they don't start out. I haven't met an entrepreneur yet.

49:44Maybe I just meet all the great ones who say, I want to make a ton of money. They say, I want to change the world. I want to make this better. or I want to bring this into the world. They're on a mission. They have a purpose. Money is an outcome, yes. But I think the corporate world is driven by money and chasing money, and there's a lot of greed. So I think that went wrong too. It's almost, I think, playing this out loud, and this is a massive generalization, so take it with a pinch of salt, everyone, but like i think if i was to look at people who go and work at startups when they leave university they're very much values i'm not in this for the money because startups are fuck all money to pay so there has there's it's a values-led piece but then people who go out of uni and go and work for one of the bigger corporates and and or like work in the city pretty much all my mates their values internally or they think their values internally is money like all my mates they haven't stopped to think it's like listen that that could be your value that that's what you really value then go for it there's no right or wrong on this but then it's when you when you try and put those two things together it's like chalk and cheese and it's just going to create this pernicious friction that eventually leads to like a uh a collapse i suppose and what when you said that i know you've shot balum i'm going to balum after this actually today my mate lives in balum so i used to pop into that store all the time um so so on paper balum looks like an absolute banger like sorry i've sounded like a dj there but um it looks i don't know i'll put my radio voice on for you renee but um but but so so that looks really good i i would think teddington near richmond's great and Henley, again, super affluent area.

51:48Why would you say those stores are dumb out of interest? Well, I didn't say Ballam's dumb. We struggled with the landlord to re-agree the lease because when you go into administration, you get a license from the administrator on all the leases. So you have to renegotiate. So that one just, he wouldn't negotiate with us. So that was taken away from us. but I it isn't just about money you know Henley is I don't think it's the right sort of demographic for us it's it's more about you know organic is attitudinal and it yes it's ABC ones but it's also it's the it's the person who's committed to health and well-being and I wouldn't have picked Henley and Teddington I I lived for like geez I don't know over 10 years and he's twicken him so I know that area really well.

52:43And I wouldn't have chosen that. I don't think the numbers of people are there. I don't think the concentration of people. So those wouldn't have been, I wouldn't have thought those were home runs. And they didn't open well. Didn't open well? Trading-wise. You know, I know that. I don't know a lot of the detail. There's a lot I don't know and didn't bother looking at because they closed. But they you know they didn't you have some stores that open and they're off and running and others where you think oh gosh you know is this it's matt again i suppose it just shows my ignorance there but it's it's this on paper you'd think you'd put your house on it that those stores would work and it's actually like zoom in go go a level deeper peel away at the onion slightly more it's like is this actually right and i think there's something in that and it with decision making You know, I didn't go to the stores.

53:42I've heard from other people that they were, they had less soul. I wouldn't say soul less, but I think they had less soul the way they were designed. But you know, I'm talking without being there. So it's, I'm on tricky ground. But maybe they didn't have, because the company was changing, maybe they didn't have that real sense of Planet Heart and Soul. you know the team were great there were great people in those stores i'm not saying that but the physical store and the design i don't i don't know if it was on brand i don't know hi there guys thank you so much for listening as always means the absolute world to me before we jump into this episode i need a really big big big big favor i have pitched to some massive guests humongous guests and unfortunately they've said no because my subscriber count isn't big enough please please please just hit the subscribe button on apple or spotify or follow ultimately it helps all of us bigger guests equals better conversations equals hopefully better insights for you which means you can scale hopefully faster with a little less stress as well so please hit that subscribe button and yeah enjoy this episode i love your kind of not shareholder letters but customer letters it reminds me a lot of warren buffett shareholder letters that you're putting on instagram what i'm seeing on instagram i think it just goes back to the fucking basics communication but it's just like the fact it just says renee x at the end of them it's just like there's a human being in this brand i think it's amazing um but one of the things you said was read live and re-enliven the brand um how are you going to compete with with whole foods and with with with waitress like because now they've well they've both got a really good organic offering that what's how do you create that point of difference?

55:29So as I, it's, it's the same as when there's any competition, you go, you go deep, you go deep with your values and your brand. And I'm certainly revisiting the brand, which I think has, you know, the branding's awful. It's gone. I have no idea in what direction it's, it's a mess, but it's looking at that, but diving back into the values and seeing if we redefine that. And it's funny because I have been looking at the original mission statement. I think, well, we're pretty much still on track, but it's about experience. So we're a community store, and it's really creating that feeling of community.

56:03And you do that by a team who are engaged and have knowledge and are welcoming and themselves feel loved. So it's that kind of through line to the customer through an incredible product offering with the buyers at Planet are phenomenal at getting in new products, seeing new talent, keeping a really lively and exciting catalog. It's about cleaning up the stores, rebranding in time so that they are beautiful and sparkly again. And this engagement in different ways with, you know, I'm not mad keen on social, I'm not going to be doing a lot of things that other people do, but we do the little Instagram thing.

56:47And then it's about marketing in different ways into the communities, and really talking about who we are and what we do and why, which is different to what other people do. You know, that's the whole point of marketing. It's shouting from the rooftops what you do well and what you do differently, what your unique selling point is because of the values you have, which are very personal to you as a business and usually from the founder. And also being not afraid to be even more laser focused with who you're trying to please i think what may have happened with planet as they were saying with um moving away from organic moving towards planet i the environment is they're actually trying to be all things or more things to more people as soon as you do that you lose you lose your soul as and i really believe that and i think with this i'm applying this to this podcast and the brands i do some work for us it's like i really believe the way you've and it's just what i've learned through doing this podcast but the way to kind of create a brand or the most basic way of doing it from everyone i've spoken to is is literally pick a word that you want to own so for you guys it's organic for me it's hungry then pick up pick a friend like literally imagine what that friend looks like candy kittens have a picture of this 80 clapham on their wall it's like we are speaking to this one person and then it's like how do you speak to that friend consistently it's like those three things but what and as soon as you've got your one friend like it's so so easy it's like the other example and the example i always use is um minor figures the oat milk and um and rude health like they've quite clearly set who their friend is how they're going to speak to that person but they've got complete different differentiation whereas what so many people do is they get scared about being laser focused be more things to more people dilute yourself and i think what i'm learning from you is you're you're going back to who is our one friend or who is our the planet organic person it's yeah it's it's it's single pointed focus it's really focusing in and and also with that it's also about you know i'm not really talking about the future but we are there are there are areas in which I think we could shine.

59:10And it's a team that can innovate, and I always have a sense of things that are coming or where to go. So it's getting back into that very creative space about what products do we really want to be? Because we make stuff too. What do we want to be making? What do we want to be making? I love that. So it's, are there areas where we could really start to take ownership in a sector and that is exciting and that will take time it's not going to happen tomorrow but it's that specialness innovation going deep with health and organic and it would be remiss of me not to ask this for people who are listening so because i know a lot of people will be planet organic is such a great store to be in for buccaneering food and drink brands there's no ifs or buts about that how's the buying policy changing because i know for a fact that well when i was at mania we'd we'd you'd i was speaking to allison who was lovely i don't know if you've brought her back into the fold but she was amazing and they'd given a slightly bit more carte blanche as to to what brands you take on is it will make a few leniences for some categories what is the state of play is it just organic are you take looking at brands that are not organic should brands who are not organic reach out we're we're wrapping that discussion up by the end of december we're in i'm in communication you know talks with the buyers about that because as you said they've been doing one thing and it's moved away a bit from the organic focus.

1:00:54So I think where we are today, and not everything has been nailed down, is organic and healthy. That's the original mission, and that has to prevail. So we're not 100 % organic, and I don't think we ever will be, but it has to be healthy. So it has to be, we love the speciality diets, vegan and healthy, gluten-free and healthy, but there is no point. Our mission, the first line of our mission is to promote health in the community and support the Earth's biodiversity. It has to support your health, where I'm not interested. So we will nail that down. We will make that public, because of course, we are inundated with inquiries.

1:01:37And I think the first filtering will be, this is what we want, which also explains what we don't want. So it is really organic and healthy, and innovation within that speciality diets within that that's that's super reassuring and i suppose for listeners who are trying to get a listing what's the best way to approach because obviously i suppose the brands need to be tender towards you guys in that you yeah there's so much shit going on that you're trying to clean up what's the best way to approach you guys right now so we are taking new products i'm now just trying to find the um

1:02:24the email address because I didn't think you were going to ask or maybe we can add that in.

1:02:34Okay, so it's buying at planetorganic.com. That's quite straightforward. And they, we, buyers are now getting back to people. You know, we're going to work on shortening those response times. And what I'd really love is an online on the website sort of register so you can go in and provide information that we need. So it cuts down on the toing and froing and speeds up the process. We're not there yet, but we're talking about that. And that will also cut out some of the products that aren't appropriate as well. But that's something we're aiming towards. but we're starting to do range reviews again and we are looking at products outside of the range reviews you know we always have we always will it's just it's just reassuring for um yeah for listeners yeah and i really want it i want it i like process because you know there's a lot going on and the process and the and standardizing this should make it easier for people not harder it should make it easier so you know where you are you know if you've got an in and how long it may take and who's going to come back to you so we're working this is part of the polishing up and do we want to do it this way do we want to do it that way can we do it better it's always asking that question what's the hand on heart this is not me trying to trying to sell to you if they'll never do this on a podcast but but you know if you weren't even though i probably am right now so apologies but but for say so say a brand like islands right we would basically you know the brand I'm doing some stuff with is they are they're not certified organic but they are healthy like what it's those blurred lines like that I this may not be the place to get into this but the question is how do you define healthy why is it healthy we may not agree on that so yeah we need some kind of definition of what that is and it may be you know we may in time look at sugar levels I don't know and I'm not saying that we are but there are you know I can look at a product and think yes no yeah yeah yeah no that is just because there'll be a lot of brands and to be honest it was like that for us at Manny this is when you you weren't even in the in the in the mix but it's like we're on that we're on that cusp of we're in that gray area and it's like how do we position ourselves ourselves to make it an easy yes do you see what i mean um and the other thing is and i know i know planet is um it's a great place to be listed and of course we want people to keep coming to us i'm not trying to put people off but as an entrepreneur getting into planet cannot be your only strategy to success you know and i've talked to i've talked to brands who say i just have to get into planet I've sent the samples and I'm waiting.

1:05:23And I'm like, no, you need to be selling. And I'm simplifying, oversimplifying. You need to be selling to other people in other ways. We cannot be your sole success story. Because if we don't say yes, it just doesn't make sense. You have to have a sales and marketing strategy that is bigger than Planet. But we do love new brands and we do want you. I'm not pushing people away. From a business planning perspective, you've got to have a plan that's robust.

1:06:18epic ollie's ollie's been on this podcast twice actually they saw a 29 uplift in sales when using boemy to check major malt listings availability insane 29 uplift by downloading an app insane lucky saying my boy aaron duff is coming to podcast in a couple of weeks weeks he uses it to manage a team of 30 people and they've lucky to have unlocked 500 draft listings by using boemy look you've got to get involved with this stuff it's absolutely insane and it will categorically change your life it's just the sickest platform i use it all the time at ireland hi guys super super quick one so so excited look for years i've been badgering on about hungary the podcast you're probably bored to death thanks for putting up with me but hungary is also an agency and we look after one amazing brand called ireland's chocolate we've had a great time over the year we've won listings at a load of wholesalers we've won milk and more we've got our first grocery listing coming very soon which is very very sick but what i'm thrilled to announce is hungary's merging with hc consulting um my boy harry clark and his wonderful team he's an absolute g they do brand strategy new business business and account management but why i really love working with harry and why we've got on so well over the last couple of months is harry was actually the founder of the boozy isolate brand pops he's been in the trenches he's grafted his face off he's had the sleepless nights he's had the turmoil he's had the triumph he knows what it is to be a founder he is a founder and he's got a proven track record in grocery and out of home holy moly dips the gut stuff savile drinks remio gelato so if your brand and you're you're stuck you're looking for like new business help you're looking to scale drop us a message we'd love to chat thank you so much back to the old episode it'd be remiss of me not to kind of delve into that because a lot of people listen to this podcast to try and try and get listings and yeah as i said with manning it took us like four four and a half years i think so something just keep keep knocking as well i suppose is the other thing um you talked about alan and peter coming back into the fold and i know back to this employees knowing the values are kind of baked into their soul right what was are they are they back in the in the mixer yes so that so they work for yes like yes Okay, so what's so special about those two?

1:08:35Because I think there's a lot of value for founders, one, keeping insane talent at the top, who understand the brand and kind of have as much skin in the game as the founder. There's real value in that. And two, like, yeah, what those skill sets are that made you think, right, these are the two. A bit like the Avengers assembled, do you know what I mean? And it's complicated. So it may be. So the four of us, Brian, Peter, Al, and I have come back in as consultants, not as employees. And we see ourselves as a transition team to transition planet to stability. And then what happens after that? We haven't defined or decided anything.

1:09:17We haven't come back in and said, we're in. We've said, you know, I called Peter and I said, I'm putting the old band back together. And he said, you do mean old. We want ages of phenomena. No, we want a young team. We need to get, you know, kind of back out and replace ourselves with younger people. But what I knew had happened is Brian and I'd run the business full time until 2009 when we were pushed out. And then Al had been there already. I hired Al like 19 years ago. And Al was stable and there. And then Peter came in when we left. And he was there for 14 years. So we hadn't been there really in the business for 14 years.

1:10:00And then the current CEO I knew would go. So I thought, yikes, we need Peter and Al, we need their knowledge. I think they both still would have been there if things hadn't happened in that last year at Planet. it. So the first thing I did was get on a Zoom call with each of them and say, would you come back? I know you're doing other things. And they both said, separately, they both said, I'd do anything. So I said, look, and then it wasn't me. It was, I'm trying to find a buyer. I'm talking to this guy and this woman and see what happens. And they said yes so you know we really it the the team of the four of us is was so critical to we all have different skills and expertise and coming together to kind of rescue planet was that was the first step in my plan and when you say they're consultants so why is why are they not on the pay like why is that so we just decided that at the beginning i mean they they have all other jobs, as do Brian and I.

1:11:16We both have our other jobs. So they have their new businesses. So we said, okay, let's do a few days a week each and get Planet through this tough time, which could be a year, year and a half, and then see. But we meet every week. We see each other all the time. It's not like we're going to regroup in a year. We're seeing how Planet unfolds. And and it's still you know we're we're there's still a lot to do this this is kind of taking a tangential path yesterday now but yesterday i was doing a podcast with a guy and he was talking about how he had like pay employees and actually now he's moved to freelancers and a lot of saying like consultants and freelancers and i think there's a real value um for people listening in terms of you don't you can build an amazing business not say i know you got it's completely different this is completely different to planet this is just sure brands brands building is i think there can be this thing where you think i need to have this huge team and i need to um it's almost like an ego thing of i need to have this big team so we're doing really really well and what he said to me yesterday was we were trying to act we were putting on the mask of a startup as to say we are a startup and he felt ashamed to build book to be building a business from his own bedroom and actually now he's got rid of those employees or had to let them go building it with the freelancers and i think a bit like what's happening with you guys there's people with so much wisdom that can come in on like a two or three day a week um um which is fascinating what one question i've got to ask you um and it's about it it's it's this i believe this is beautiful kind of dancing at between experience and naivety and i james dyson talks about this i've keep referencing so i've just read his book but he talks about how he experience can be really really dangerous because it's quite it can be quite dogmatic it can be a way of an entrenched way of thinking how do you stay naive as you get older and you become more experienced.

1:13:29Well, that is interesting. I think it's about being very open, but also it's like I've gone back in. And it's funny because when I started Planet, it was 100 % mine. I formed it, I birthed it. I had a partner, but we were completely aligned on our vision for Planet. So it was mine. I kind of breathed life into it. We took the gestational period, setting it up, and then we opened. But going back into Planet now, that's not the case. There are other stakeholders in the business, from the team in support office, in the stores, to customers. There are people who have formed and informed who and what Planet is.

1:14:20So I have to be really open. And I've gone in very open because there are things that I don't like about how things have been done. But I thought you don't go, I'm not the sort of person who goes in and stomps around. And yes, I will lead and I am a leader. I always have been. But first there has to be a listening and a sharing of ideas and keeping very open. And also if you're in, most people think they're right about everything. that's the cause of most arguments in work and in marriages i'm right you're wrong okay that's ego and it's being in that space of well i might be right but i need to listen to what other people are saying and really listen and i think i'm so glad i've been coaching for these last since I came back from Italy since like 2014 because I've learned to listen really really well and and to know that I don't have the answers for everything and there are really you know I've always the success of planet has always been me surrounded by lots of really great people it's never been just me you know there are things I'm not very good at but I've always I have a skill of hiring really great people so and that means you're not just looking at yourself and your ideas you're asking the team what they think and what they know yeah so it's open but when you're closed as you get older when you become closed that's when the autism and the old that's one way of getting old and i see that very distinctly i see old people who've gotten expanded and open and laughing and i've seen old people who've gotten narrow and unhappy and full of regret yeah you go either way i really it's like the narrows on the roller coasters like that and then the opens like that i think it allows you to to really see things like wide that's a choice that's yes it's a choice um i always try and push myself to ask some like dark not dark questions but i just think it's i love getting into into the founder's mindset i think the founder is the most fascinating form of human being and i don't know it's all right don't worry i maybe should have said that i'm slightly differently so i'm going down some dark shadows but but i think a lot of founders i interview have like a sort of an internal friction um robert green's got a great way of saying it it's it's like the the darker the the shadow the the bigger the creative force um you know with myself like it's always just told you're not good enough at school always used to be a bit fat as a kid like always had this feeling of like doing and the way it's manifested now is you don't doubt me that it and it's it's good bad it's like it's great as a as a piece of dynamite up my ass with maybe there's no way of saying it but like it's great it's a great sure that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's a it's a great force force forward but then it has it has some consequences and i know yeah and i would love to know like what what was in your in your shadow that brought you back into the fold when you're as you said, you're about to like, everything's going smooth.

1:18:00You're about to go down to four days a week. What's that internal friction? Yeah, I wouldn't call it. I don't actually agree with what you're saying. I think you're talking about dichotomy in the world. And that comes from comparison and positioning. And that's all ego. You know, I've been on this development spiritual journey for a long time. And I absolutely fundamentally believe that you are enough. And I don't think that negative thought creates anything positive. I think that is, and that is not where I come from. I come from, I am enough. I know, and I'm here to live my purpose and I trust that.

1:18:46And I trust that not because from ego, but from humility and that I am part of the universe. So going back to that, because I touched on this earlier. So when you look at, let's go back to the acorn. Okay. Is the acorn perfect? Does it have everything inside of it to become the oak tree? Yes. Okay, but the real miracle for me is a freaking caterpillar that makes a cocoon, turns into, do you know they turn into mush? They turn into like caterpillar goo. There's a moment when if you cut them open, it's goo. And there are maybe three or four fundamental elements that remain. And from that, it builds itself into a winged creature.

1:19:25Okay, that's a miracle. The caterpillar isn't worried about where it's going. Humans worry. So I say everything you need for your journey on this earth is inside of you. You are enough. It's all there. You just need to trust that and you need to let that come forth. So when I was faced with the do I go back, I worked hard in that month and I watched the signs and what was happening and the opportunities. And I thought this is my path to come back. And it wasn't from any negative tension inside of me. It was an unfolding of the truth at that time. And I saw it as, you know, the universe, I created Planet, I went off, I was kicked out.

1:20:13I went off, had the gift of raising my kids, going deeper into personal development, coaching, mentoring. And then it's like the universe said, here, have it back. Have it back. It's mental that you've used the caterpillar and the butterfly, because I asked that exact same question to Julian Metcalfe, founder of ITSU and Pratt, and the ITSU logo is a butterfly. I know. And I said to him, I said, it's quite ironic, and he's talked very openly about the pain he's been in. His mother committed suicide when he was seven, I think, and he basically had to go on this, and he basically says a lot of my internal pain and friction I've turned into art.

1:20:57and we talked about business as art about it's to eat beautiful like yes beauty is is his beauty and i said it's a bit like the caterpillar the caterpillar goes in into this cocoon and it's this this internal pain or this like chip on your shoulder and then it blossoms out into a butterfly so i just find it very well serendipitous that you've used that as but there's two ways of looking at it yours is the that's just the natural path for the caterpillar to go into into the butterfly mine is and i'm i'm she's gonna take this is gonna take more work it's like i've got this internal friction but i can turn it into something good and i think your way of doing it is that that's that's like a doing way of seeing the world and yours is more of a being way i think and if i spend that time with you i would unpick that in there i mean that's what i do and then you're just coming from a creative positive space you know whatever you make it work which is great but and yeah and also i i think for me is a big thing is i've i see it i've gone back to say a therapist and um the big thing that i've done that's helped with that is just take off all these external goals as it has it's just like all i've got to do is almost fall in love with the process there's no well just i i for so long hitting i don't know since i hit 30 i feel like a lot of these shackles have just been unleashed just like i had this thing of i need to be doing this i need all these goals i actually think goals are quite toxic for type a people because you it goals are great for someone who's can't go off the sofa and run a 5k that's quite good but for someone who's already ambitious goals can actually just make you fucking ill i think and you said off the call before we started, before you press record, and is the problem with goals that I see, and you need to set goals in business, but there's a whole psychology behind that.

1:22:56But you set a goal, and as soon as you get there, you move the goalposts. So it's a no-win game. You're always chasing. So it isn't about – so I would say if what you're doing isn't fun, it's probably not worth doing it because all you have is today. And that's what you said about it's all about the journey. It is. It's all journey. you may never get to the goal you you know you may be hit by a bus in two weeks but if you're having fun today that's all that matters and that's basic life spiritual truth and then so a lot of people will use that thing that you want to unpick with me right as as uh and i i do lean on it and it is uh when things are hard and i have to push harder or i don't fancy you know i don't fancy getting up and writing a newsletter from scratch or i don't fancy you know i don't i when your back's against the wall you can cut you can lean on that i don't know it's not healthy and it's not sustainable but for a period of time you can use that as as fuel what are you using if you're coming from a place that is enough where you feel good enough you feel content it's like it's almost like uh this conversation is polar opposite to the conversation i had yesterday with the guy i won't say whose name it is um but he was just i mean the guy has got an amazing apartment in battersea he drives a ferrari he's got a sick brand he's done everything but he's he goes i'm mentally fucked like where is that words it's like you'll never he'll never it's almost a complete dichotomy to you.

1:24:36So the question for me is, what's the purpose of life? You know, they're getting into big existential areas here. And yes, I want to earn money, and I want to provide for my kids, and I want security for them, and all of that. But the most important thing is a life well-lived. It's a life that's leading toward understanding self and the cosmos, you know, to put it. simply. That's the purpose of life. Otherwise, you've kind of, there's a quote by, so we learned TM, Transcendental Meditation, a long time ago. Don't do that now, but I did that for a really long time. That was taught by Maharishi Maheshogi.

1:25:20And his guru, Guru Dev, said, if you live a life and don't spiral upwards towards, these weren't his words, towards enlightenment, towards liberation, whatever you call that, you've traded a diamond for a bowl of spinach. Say that again, sorry. If you don't search for true happiness, which it really is, and understanding self and the universe, you're not on that kind of spiritual journey of understanding and peace. you've traded what has when you come onto this earth he's it's as if he's saying you've been given a diamond and you've traded that for a bowl of spinach because you've just right you've lived a thoughtless life or a painful life by choice what was i'm not saying and i don't this can sound very blunt and not explained to people listening and i apologize for that i'm not saying pain is your fault you know i'm not saying that but you can live a life that's kind of unthinking or you can live a life of awareness it really is about awareness living in awareness completely and one thing that fascinates me is is what was your why for for learning tm transcendental meditation because i always think there is some sort of i know you may have succumbed through it now but there's some sort of friction to do maybe not friction is the wrong word, but there's some sort of thing that makes you think, I need to sit down and do TM or learn how to meditate.

1:26:59Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, I do a different meditation now, so I do still meditate daily, twice daily. But well, when I was a teenager, I thought, I had this epiphany when I was about 19. And I just, I thought there was more to life than the daily grind. And I just, a lot of people think that, you know, I just felt that in my heart. And I started to see glimpses that I was right. And I wanted better than what I saw. I wanted better food. It started with me. You've heard the story about conventional meat in America. I wanted better than that. I wanted better relationships than I saw around me.

1:27:43I wanted better work. I wanted to work with joy. I wanted better relationships. I wanted better everything. And I thought there must be better. And better isn't usually what everyone's doing. So I have to learn and forge a different path and learn about different ways of being and doing. And I had this very strong urge when I was a kid. And meditation was just a very natural part of that. You know, if I want to be in the world, but find my own truths within that. I need to go to that quiet place where there is stillness and a different way of being, which in the busyness of the world you can so easily never do.

1:28:35Drinking, working, you know, doing all that stuff. Fun stuff. It's mad going back to that timestamp when you were 19 and you could almost see that the the creation of planet organic is is just an extension of that internal thing and it there's the the quote by david ogilvy is is a business or a brand is is the long shadow of a formidable founder which i just think is is is beautiful and it's kind of yeah yeah it definitely makes sense um a few more things i want to just quickly explore um because I feel like this is, I always feel like when I speak to you, Renee, it's like personal therapy. I feel like I'm sending you money in the post.

1:29:25Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please, please do. So this is a question I've been asking a lot of guests. But what's one belief that you held staunchly onto that has radically changed in the last five years?

1:29:50A negative belief. A belief. A belief. well nothing leaps to mind but i'm in the business of challenging beliefs all the time so i do that work that's the work i do that's the work of self-awareness so um i think what i've come to realize in this last month since the month that i rescued planet that which was april yeah i absolutely believe that anything is possible what happened in april to make you believe that even more specifically it was being in a place of it was being as we've talked about in that place of surrender and not knowing, you know, I don't know what's going to happen. I can't make this happen.

1:30:49I can work hard, but I don't know. And I'm in surrender and I'm going to trust and watching that unfold and seeing all the things that lined up, not only in that month, but in the previous month, that meant I was in a position to make an offer, have it accepted, and then go back into planet. when I thought I'd been pushed out twice. I thought if you'd told me 10 years ago I would have the chance to buy Planet back, I would have said, shut the front door. I would have laughed my head off. I would have said, you're fucking kidding me because there's no way that can happen. And I believe, intellectually, I believe, yeah, anything's possible because the only thing that holds us back is our thoughts.

1:31:32Anything is possible. But we hold ourselves back. We limit ourselves with our thoughts. But I saw that living in all of its glory on a grand scale through April. With every employee in Planet kind of thing. And with everything that happened that lined up for our offer to be accepted, for the things that enabled me to make that offer that happened in the previous month, three catastrophic events that happened for me in March. I was like, what? um i i look at that and i think well anything is possible and i and i say that and i affirm that i really truly believe that and do you think that anything is possible is that coming from like some external thing that's coming into you like do you believe it like that or what where does that because i i agree i i believe anything is possible but i think a lot of a lot of us and this was what julia metcalf was saying again is is the saddest thing is human beings don't believe they're capable they don't realize what they're actually capable of yeah so because that is the saddest thing in humanity so you don't know what you're capable and that's what i'm saying um this this most people think and it's taught by religion i'm sorry but it is and schools and even well-meaning people who love us, we're told we're not enough.

1:33:02And that thought is pervasive. And the people who do really well either combat that or move on from that thought. But it's so human to have that. I'm not enough, but you are enough. Of course you're enough. So when we talk about the acorn and the butterfly and the bird that can weave an incredible nest. When we go back to nature, you're part of nature. Do you really think that whatever, whoever, whatever created the universe and all its miracle and perfection made you not enough? Really? It just doesn't make sense. Why would everything, I mean, the world operates, the universe operates in incredible magic.

1:33:53Why would you within that be flawed? It's a thought. It's not real. It's your thought. It's a lot of people's thought. And overcoming that and seeing that for what it is, which is a negative thought, puts you in a place, and it's choosing away from that. It's choice all the time. You choose. You choose to believe that. And I say you generally. when you choose to not believe that and to choose actually I can do that anything's possible you can do anything it's the negative thought that you're holding on to that holds you back how do food and drink founders for example I know for a fact you talked about religion in school I think and I mean I use LinkedIn every day but LinkedIn is the prime example of that in our gorgeous little industry and that people will see other brands in their category getting a waitress listing it's the star jump outside it's jazz hands outside planet it's the jazz hands outside whole foods and that by just default will make people feel like they are not good enough one and not capable of two and i've speak to a lot of listeners like we do events it's like i just don't feel like i can i can do this like how do people hack and chip and decimate that negative belief.

1:35:08Do you know what I mean? Okay. That's a whole nother podcast. Okay. In, in, in, in one sentence and we'll have to, we'll save it for a part three. Okay. So, so what happens is you have a setback. Okay. You don't get a listing. Something goes wrong. Okay. You cannot control what happens to you. Can you? Shit's coming at you all the time. Bad things happen. Okay. Yes. Yes. The only thing you can control, where your agency lies, is your response. That's where your power is. So I can suffer a devastating upset, and I can be demolished by it. I can lay on the floor crying and wailing, or I can think, okay, that didn't work.

1:35:59I'm up for the next thing. And I'm not saying I may not cry first, but the power that you have is in your response. And that's your choice. That's not anything but your choice. And when I say that, that shouldn't make people feel

1:36:20small or in a contracted state. That's giving you power back. You choose how you respond. Choose positive. Be in awareness. See bad shit coming. Choose to pick yourself up and carry on. That's your choice. So yes, tough things happen all the time. And it's what you do with that. So there are good things that happen. There are bad things that happen. When good things happen, what do you do from them? You learn from them. Oh, that was good. I'll learn from that. When bad things happen, what do you do from them? You lay on the floor and cry? No, you'll learn from them. and you don't do that again or you try a different strategy.

1:36:59The only real failure is when you do something that doesn't work and you keep doing it and that is also the definition of incentive. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. It's about take the learning, do something to reset yourself if you've gone negative or gone off balance and then go out and do something different, choose a different response, choose a different action. does that make sense but this is what i teach and be yourself this is the six years of well-being course that i teach for sure final question and i just want to be a bit a bit prudent and i've got i've got to ask this because i think we're out of it we may be able to do this in like when we've gone through this period what do you think if we were to record this podcast and say two and a half years time or three years time like what what would you say like okay I've done what I wanted to do like what does planet look like for you I know it's quite a big question but I'm just intrigued yes and and I pray we're there because as I said there's still a lot to do yeah yeah yeah um for me it would be a business that's beautiful and thriving with an amazing team and bigger in some ways and there are things I'm not going to talk about because you say something and people are like, oh, they're going to do this.

1:38:24No, we have ideas. I'm not even going to do that today. We have ideas and that it is a solid team where I'm not needed, where I can be light touch. I can be sprinkling my fairy dust of values, but it's a business that's running itself with a really great team doing great things in the world and for me you know that is promoting health in the community and supporting the earth's biodiversity bigger better beautiful they get better beautiful and look it's always a joy speaking to you really and yeah i always come away like i feel like it's a cathartic process so um yeah thank thank you so much thank you dad it's great to chat thank you so so much to listen to the podcast i really really do appreciate it if you like that episode only if you liked it please do give it five stars subscribe tell all your friends families foes next door but one cat dog whatever please tell everyone about this podcast it means the world to me and i really want to understand what your pain points are as the new wave of challenger food and drink brands please do hit me up on linkedin search dan pope and hopefully we can together create a more meaningful and powerful podcast for the next wave of challenger food and drink brands thank you so much