The Secrets Behind the UK's Most Creative Pub (with a David Bowie obsession)

54:24I think we finished fourth in that nationally, which gave us an entry into the catays and we came runner-up um which we weren't expecting so we were we took the stuff to the catays and and and we went runner-up in the best but then i got invited at the dorchester to do a talk through the the and i was sitting with the dorchester collection to other large corporate and there was about 40 mainly women in the marketing world and i was doing a speech there at the dorchester and that was probably one of the highlights really because the people were looking at the time they're looking up me at the time obviously at us as a business as innovative of the way we were approaching staff welfare dealing with staff staff retention and things like this and they've copied a lot they took that on they took it on what were those if you could boil it down to one two three things what were they i'll say staff roast is one well yeah basic things like you know staff so empowerment as well which i was really this is something I've learned a lot in the in the corporate world empower the staff so you say empower so empower for example I'll give you a very basic example of me being on the pass not on the on the kitchen pass but on the pass front of house and I've got a young lad front of house that has got a problem dealing with a customer right now many people will say well I'll go and do it so you can go and do it and deal with a problem my way of doing it would have been to ask the question what is the problem teach the staff how to handle it and let him do it and that to me that's empowerment there's more there's more a staff satisfaction in it and ultimately a better efficiency in the business as well if if you actually teach that person to deal with it because the next time that person is not going to come to me and says, what should I do?

56:43Or what are we going to do about it? They'll deal with it straight away. Then they can add their flair as well. Correct. They do it with their own personality. And that's what you find in recruitment. When you're recruiting, you ask certain questions and see what they're going to answer. And you know... you know instantly when you meet someone if they're going to have that flair. Well, Ollie last night, yeah, kudos to him. He was absolutely brilliant. And Danny and Matty, they're all absolutely brilliant. And if you came on the weekend, you've got even younger staff. Because we recruit from 14.

57:18We keep two 14-year-olds. And then when they're 16, they go out at lunchtime and people say, where did you get your staff from? But then when they go to uni, those staff aren't then going, right i'm going to uni i'm going to get a job over there see you in four years they come home and also like a youth club for them you know if they want to stay up till two in the morning have a drink now says i have no problems with that because i enjoyed that in my first workplace in in texas you know and and also one of the key point as well and this is where it's more duly than any one of the key points is i was saying it's more duly than anybody else really it's on the way that you recruit the staff we used to have for many many years we used to have staff that one was a musician one was a or what was to become a doctor or whatever but you let the staff be their own uh individual people and and that that mix of of of um how would i say personality adds obviously there is a certain certain skills or a certain approach that they need to learn on how or certain values that they need to adhere to fit within the business but remain their own individual people they're not robots i've always said to my staff make sure you talk to the people i mean not everyone wants to talk but make the ones that want to talk make sure you talk to them about yourself because you just don't know who you're talking to and they'll say like for instance one bright young gentleman a young lad who was working for us he was a science gene he was studying chemistry and we just happened to have a chemical company in the building and I talked to them talked to me and they ended up putting him through his masters and his PhD that's wild and giving him a job so I say to young people that's happened a lot a lot a lot of people have gotten jobs from the back of here and I say talk about yourself what you're doing what you'd like to do and it works because you get these talented kids coming to work for you and you know you can't unfortunately you can't keep them forever because there's not the money in hospitality to pay top dollar that's one of the good sides of hospitality meeting people and yeah yeah there's there's a lot of um quirky ways on the exterior but in the way you run it is really interesting when we're getting kind of deeper into how things you know almost into the roots of the business a few things i want to go back to so one is the empowerment and how to solve customer problems and then we'll go there and then i want to go to um to actually how you get staff to or members of the team to to speak to people because i think that's interesting but with the empowerment piece patrick the so so so what is the art of of dealing with like a customer complaint i know that sounds like the office like there's a complaint i like to make it doesn't have to be just to complain but like how do you deal with how do you deal with shitty customers We're not good.

1:00:38Hey, hey, hey, tell him to fuck off. Well, I've done that a lot of time, but... Shall we tell him about the times? Tell me what I teach. Plakes off somebody once and said, you don't deserve to be in here now. What I give staff is, first is confidence. It's extremely important that you've got to show confidence because there's a lot of people out there that are just playing with you, really. they have no knowledge and it's normally the people that have got actually no knowledge but they want to show a pretension that they have got knowledge and and it's there's an easy way to to go about it is to be actually more confident than they are um jesus got enough no it's fine don't worry you sure okay um so so that's that's a key thing that i always say to them you've got to be confident but how do you get confident you've got to show that you know what what you're doing so it's important for staff to to learn certain things to enable them to be confident on the on the floor and it might be things that they use with their their personal knowledge as well it doesn't have to be just purely hospitality but they've got to show confidence because Because sometimes if you're in front of someone that actually got an agenda, it's a jungle.

1:02:09Because if the person starts taking the lead, you're never going to win. But if she showed that confidence, then the weight of the power. And staff can do that very easily, but they've got to show confidence. You make them feel secure that we've got the back. because at the end of the day, your staff are the most important. Without your staff, you're nothing. But how do you do that? Because it's not easy to do because this is a list. Well, you know, they're with them all the time. We socialize with them. We nurture them. And the easiest thing in the world is to teach a member of staff of 16 years of age that are absolutely bricking it because they're literally on show.

1:02:53I mean, it's a big stage, isn't it, at the end of the day. And they've got our product that we trust them with. and I'm always saying to them, whatever your expectations are, remember that mine are twice as big and I trust you with that. So you have to give them that so they're careful what they do. But if there's an error, it's not to scare them, to just teach them to say I'm sorry. Yeah, I remember I worked at a pub once, basically the polar opposite to this, and I was absolutely shitting myself on the first shift. And the locals were at the thing and they asked for a Guinness shandy, which was, it's not a drink.

1:03:34So I've gone out, I've got a pouring, poured a Guinness and then put the, put some lemonade in, gave it to the person. I was literally, I was like 16, 17. And this South African guy goes, mate, what the fuck are you doing? Like, you're a fucking idiot, all this. I was like, I was like. And they scared you. Scared the fucking living shit out of me. Never drink Guinness shit. Sorry about my language, yeah, yeah. And I was just like, you're a dickhead. And every time I was in the pub, I was scared of him. I basically just didn't rock up one day. I was a bit of a dickhead. But I was like, you're going to fuck me about it.

1:04:06I'll fuck you about it. But you know, today, that's a classic example of bad operators ruining the industry. Because now, no fucker wants to work in the industry. We're not, you know, not fuckable. You can swear. Yeah, don't worry. Swear. Swear. Nobody wants to work in the industry anymore because of all these bad employers that have ruined it. Good employers, you know? And we've influenced some great, talented staff. And we nurtured one young lady, and I said, you need to stay in this industry. You're so good at it. You need to get your own business in. And we've nurtured a lot, and they've gone on to great.

1:04:51I mean, we have one young lady who now runs Stephen Spielberg's yacht because of the Carpford Inn. That's wild. And she's told him that. And she comes back all the time. And she's actually coming today. She's here. She does text me this morning like, are we having a catch up? She's coming today. Yeah. boe me our beloved sponsor are helping build the fastest growing challenger food and drink brands look if you're a small brand just starting out and need your first indie stockist your first hundred stockist to wholesale boe me are the platform to categorically speed that up but if you're a big brand wanting to get bigger boe me are also insane they make field sales marble smooth silky slick they're just epic ollie's ollie's been on this podcast twice actually they saw a 29 percent uplift in sales when using boemy to check major malt listings availability insane 29 percent uplift by downloading an app insane lucky saying my boy aaron duff is coming to podcast in a couple of weeks he uses it to manage the team of 30 people and they've lucky to have unlocked 500 draft listings by using boemy look you've got to get involved with this stuff it's absolutely insane and it will categorically change your life it's just the sickest platform i use it all the time at Ireland.

1:06:11Hi guys, super super quick one, so so excited. Look, for years I've been badgering on about Hungary the podcast, you're probably bored to death, thanks for putting up with me, but Hungary is also an agency and we look after one amazing brand called Ireland's Chocolate, we've had a great time over the year, we've won listings at a load of wholesalers, we've won Milk and More, we've got our first grocery listing coming very soon which is very very sick, but what I'm thrilled to announce is hungary's merging with hc consulting um my boy harry clark and his wonderful team he's an absolute g they do brand strategy new business business and account management but why i really love working with harry and why we've got on so well over the last couple of months is harry was actually the founder of the boozy isolate brand pops he's been in the trenches he's grafted his face off he's had the sleepless nights he's had the turmoil he's had the triumph He knows what it is to be a founder.

1:07:02He is a founder. And he's got a proven track record in grocery and out of home. Holy moly dips, the gut stuff, Savile drinks, Romeo gelato. So if you're a brand and you're stuck, you're looking for new business help, you're looking to scale, drop us a message. We'd love to chat. Thank you so much. Back to the old episode. What's been the most, just out of, I find this hilarious. What's been the hardest complaint you've had to deal with? And how did you deal with that? It's not, I don't want to blow my own trumpet, Dan, but we don't get, and it's normally people that try to make something because I always say something, and this is another part of the success of the business, is that we live and breathe here.

1:07:48I'm on the pass most of the time, unfortunately. but but there's no food that come out that is bad food there might be food and i appreciate it that might not be to your liking and when it's that way i'm always prepared to replace it if you wish something else and not even to charge you for it but don't come to me and tell me this is but this is not good because there's no it's my life it's what i've been brought up please i've not been brought up in eating bad food i eat good food and i don't pretend it's the best food in the world but it is good enough for me to eat it's good enough for my customer to eat and so so it's never i always feel confident um facing a customer and saying look you don't like it not the problem if you approach me the way the right way i won't charge you for it i replace it and i'll give you something else that you like better but don't come to me and and and say so i've never really what's that story about taking the plates away well he got to a stage where when i mean early days that yeah but it was we we were we got to a stage where we were really really really busy with it was it was a really busy week really we're not as busy now but it was like a tsunami every night and and then you get the old person that that tried to pretend that they know more and the food is not what they want so instead of saying well actually can i have something else no it was the seafood they said well there's been a few over there there's been a few over the years And they were larger than life customers.

1:09:40So instead of arguing, I just take the plate out and say, well, ask him nothing to leave. Because you're never going to lose those kind of people. Yeah, you don't put so much of your life. And it's not, people might say, oh, it's a bit, how do you say, arrogant or whatever. But I don't think when you are and you put so much, it's not being arrogant. it's actually being said look there's thousands of restaurants and out there if it's not what you want don't come here this is what we do it's like people that don't like the picture on the wall well if it's not what you like not everyone likes ballet exactly in the early days if anyone we were so we were so tired constantly tired just building the business and if someone ever did upset Patrick he would literally come out in his apron and the staff was all going oh he's literally they were like put their head down oh my god where's he going where's he going but i think i think it's important in in the in in the basis of probably of any business i guess again i mean that's all i've done on hospitality on my life so i can't talk to any other business but we i was as i said to you when we bought the business we didn't look at how much money we were borrowing what we were We were confident that we were going to make it and be successful.

1:11:14And that confidence, I think, is important. And if you're confident to... You can't let the customer all the time telling you what they want. You've got to listen to your customer to a certain extent, but you can't let them deal. it's your business and and you've got to so when someone comes and say well this is not good then no you know it's it's the door the door service is black and white yeah it's there at the end of the day you know we're not you know there is if if a steak is overcooked fine there's a steak you look it happens it's a mistake or something it doesn't happen very often but it can happen everybody's human um but if the food is not good no i'm sorry it's it's not no good because we buy the best ingredients we take care of of everything that we do um so the food is not no good is that you don't like it but see you later see you later um recently we had an email from a gentleman in a book to room and it started off he was very happy and looking forward to coming to spend time with us yeah and then we had to give him some bad news that he couldn't have the offer he wanted on the day he was coming he wanted a particular offer but it wasn't on that day and he started kicking off on email being rude and arrogant and oh god if this has happened now what's going to happen when i get there i hope you're not going to run out of food really just uncalled for even so i ended up emailing him saying i'm really sorry i don't want my staff you've already my staff are already being subjected to your emails your negative emails we try our best to make everybody happy whoever comes here i don't like your attitude i'm sorry your room you're not you're not welcome you're not welcome and so i stopped him from coming I love that, standing to your values.

1:13:22Let's talk about how you get your team to talk about themselves. I've never heard that before. And it's almost the whole kind of B of service to your customer. That seems really interesting. And what's the sort of the why behind it first? And then what's the how behind it? Because you have really interesting kids that are working for you. Yeah. And they're clever. You know, I mean, we're lucky in this area. There's a lot of creativity as well. So especially if someone's creative, I do like to employ people that do have skills. They may be studying photography. And I like to give them a blank canvas for them to express whatever they're interested in in life.

1:14:15You know, we've even had staff's artwork and put it for sale. Well, Craig, this morning. Yeah, I mean, I actually went to school with Craig. Yeah, he was saying, well, I think, yeah. Since we were 11, my oldest friend used to chase me around the car park. I always make a joke to customers that he's still chasing me, and he always jokes I'd have caught you if I wanted to. But I think what, coming on, when you're talking with Julie, is that you embrace the quality of each staff that they've got. A, it's going to build their confidence, and that's what they're here for as well, is when they come to work for us, we give them more confidence.

1:14:57Sometimes they're very shy. I mean, a talented musician that we had that worked for us 14 years ago was very shy, but now he's the most... A singer-songwriter doing well for himself. and so we also have a young um vet at the moment who's studying veterinary and so we have quite a few vet customers i always make sure that she's on the tables where the vets are and ask for some work experience i always say you know use us as much as we're using you you know you a door may open for you. So we very much promote our staff and support them. I always say, don't ever just walk out, just come and tell me what you think you might want to do, might be able to help you.

1:15:46And we've helped all our staff get jobs and references. Still have staff now of 20 years later asking me for references. yeah it's uh it's understandable i'm loving going into the roots of quirk that's the way of saying it is there anything else so we did um uh dedication creativity empowerment actually staff telling their story um is there anything else you'd add maybe another chapter to the quirk of hospitality book that's definitely what it should be called

1:16:26i'm not sure really no it's i'm not sure no i think that's that's quite adhering having having values and that's one thing that we've done and that's another thing that i took from the corporate world is setting yourself um values goals that's it's a very corporate thing but it does work because it does help you focus the values that you know when we created the business i did a business plan and i put like you would do like you would do in a in a corporate slow me down like you would do in a corporate environment i wrote a set of values that that we we we obviously all um light and and adhere to and and if you focus on them values i think he helps you focus on on on on on what's important for your business and and and not being drawn into something that probably you would not do normally really sometimes business because you lose focus sometimes of what is important and and and because you're drawn by the business but if it's on black and white there it just reminds you all the time you know what sort of people you want in the business what you know how how as the owner how how should you deal with those people hi there guys thank you so much for listening as always means the absolute world to me before we jump into this episode i need a really big big big big favor i have pitched us some massive guests humongous guests and unfortunately they've said no because my subscriber count isn't big enough please please please just hit the subscribe button on apple or spotify or follow ultimately it helps all of us bigger guests equals better conversations equals hopefully better insights for you which means you can scale hopefully faster with a little less stress as well so please hit that subscribe button and yeah enjoy this episode what i want to talk about on is there's another picture on the wall sometimes memories sneak out of my eyes and roll down my cheeks i love that quote love that picture again we'll put this in the newsletter so people can see it doing this this thing you love this piece of creativity and storytelling and art comes with some hard hardships um what have been the hardest days or maybe the hardest day on this 15 how many years is it yeah when it's 17 years 30 years we've been in business yeah talk to me about the hardest days and i know i know well maybe not covid because we're going to talk about totty and covid so but what yeah what being with the hard days we just think why the fuck am i doing this because i think i think people want to come into hospitality because they see the flair the creativity the ziggy room the paintings the gorgeous food but there's a real dark underbelly to this as well there is there is i don't know for me sometimes it it's only because when when you it never lasts long it never lasts long that that um that frustration or that and i think most of the time when he appears is is when when you're actually tired and you drone too much in the business and you've not got enough time to step out and appreciate about what you're doing and obviously with me and julie it's then the clash that all with patrick because he's full-on in the kitchen and especially at the moment because at the moment the the state that hospitality is in is is you know it's real and it's scary but why is it so bad because the business model doesn't work anymore of hospitality all those margins that we've worked with they've all gone just they've just disappeared you know your 10 wage and your 10 6 percent electric all those margins they just don't work they don't nothing adds up anymore so you're just surviving you're just struggling and getting through it as best you can without any help coming forward from anyone even though you're constantly you know begging for help we write to the mps constantly we're doing everything to say look we've been in business 30 years if you lose us you're losing everyone because we're good at what we do pay our bills on time everything that you're supposed to do in business we do correctly and we never struggled like this ever before and we've been through how many recessions three like tough recessions we've survived all of them but this now is yeah i mean we touch base then a little bit on i think we don't want to be spending too much time because we don't want to be too negative we don't want to be negative and draw a negative picture but it is very negative at the moment with our experience and unfortunately but you always he always go he always go back david bowie on you he always go back at the moment to um um to um with these two things really there's obviously there is definitely a consumer change since covid um that are that making the business struggle certain business model struggle a little bit more but um i think that is you've got to adapt hospitality is one of them business that are very good at adapting um but there's one thing that you can't control is what the government control is and this is where the the business model doesn't work anymore it's it's certain taxes with around the business have become a burden and the as Julie saying the business model doesn't work before when in the 80s 90s you used to say well take that product time it by three put your hat on and you'll be all right it just doesn't work anymore it's because because you're certain you know you've got to you've got to time it by four and you've got ideally you you you would have to time it by six but that's another thing the consumer it can't pay the more you're charging the more you're putting prices the less people you've got and you're becoming so it's a very very tricky one and and and very briefly without going into too much detail we don't want the government like they've done through covid to throw money at us we only want the government to touch certain things such as the vat we've given our life such as the business rate and the vat which we know and we've learned through covid that are two element that are burden on in hospitality and and will help the business model to to make sense again and um and yeah you know if there is any they don't seem to be listening but if there's someone listening out there there's no secret i'm i've got quite a bit of experience with julie you hear it from from from other people that i've got the same experience you hear it from new people in the business those are the two things you need to to touch v80 and business rates and it's even more evident when you look at europe where the v80 is so low and because they care about hospitality does that mean that uk i came in the uk as a frenchman because uk gave me opportunities but i have to be honest i'm rethinking now what before i used to be i used to say i used to think it was the best thing to have i've done to have come in the uk but now i look at it and this there's there's a there's a there's a switch really and i don't know where that come from what's the what's the government's why is the government i don't understand the government's perspective as to why they're trying to strangle and squeeze and shackle the only thing i can say is we have money the only thing i can say is that they think that because hospitality tea is a great um is very good at adapting they think probably oh well we're going to adapt they've done it over the years they'll adapt again i mean it's 38 quid for a spill at stake who who can afford that and the rest you know well it's 10 pounds for for a piece of meat 10 pounds for lancashire prices what is it in london you know well they can afford it in london though it's the world's gone mad and how do you we talked about work and play we're kind of dancing between those two things which is why i'm with this podcast i think there's a japanese phrase which is called like in the i'm not gonna try japanese today but it's a phrase when like your work your play and your flow state all come into one thing um which is amazing when you hit that but at the same time it could be quite suffocating because you never stop from you never you're always working you're always here how do you deal with that like the the the almost you your work is where you live your customers are here you've got to be you're up at six this morning cooking breakfast i was with you last night till 9 p.m that feels like that can be quite um suffocating How do you deal with that?

1:26:11It's a way of life then, I guess. I mean, for many years, I think it's finding that where the good things are. For many years, I always remember when my son was younger and used to have a game of rugby, for example, in the afternoon. Well, I might have got up at six o 'clock in the morning to do breakfast, but I was probably one of the only parents on the field in the afternoon watching the game of rugby because my job allowed me to do that, whereby some other people that have got a nine-to-five job or whatever, they might not have been able to do that. So it's finding them bits and saying, well, actually, this is...

1:27:00Do you understand what I'm saying? A thousand. So you've got to pick the good things of it. You're very good at that as well. And making me, and motivate you. Little tiny, little small things like that will satisfy Patrick. For me, it's not enough, you know, I need, what do you need? It's never enough. Would you need Julie? So I have that with, because, so, you know, the, doing the podcast is, I have that a lot because there's a lot of, I love this part. This is, I love doing this, the two, three hours, but there's a lot of the editing and all that shit it just takes fucking forever but it's when when i'm doing those hard bits that are just it's just it's not even it's not even that it's just quite boring editing yeah something right uh and it's just it's just back and forth but i'm always have to think well i've got to do this like this this has been an amazing 24 hours in this beautiful place yeah but i think that take those but because i think i think it's on any journey you're on with a business or brand it could be so easy to get bogged down in the bits but human beings focus on the negative as a survival mechanism like back in the day if you even if you've got some food you're thinking fucking hell where's the tiger going to be we're default to to look at negativity and i think stopping and as you say it's that pause of i can see my kid play rugby or i get to come here to the car ford in i think that's a really clever way of keeping the um self-mediation isn't it it's it's it's that thing that is important um you know i mean and very often as well personally if i'm low i look out there and i say well actually i'm in a good place you know what i mean you know there's people that are in the mall yeah i think it's still and it's it's always that's how i motivate myself when i'm low you know you you've got them hopping down but hospitality can give you some some amazing we met we've done things i mean we sometimes you go back and in what you've done when we were young and we were traveling you talk about travel we didn't go too much about it but we lived in the caribbean and whereaboutsst martin oh so but you know we've done things i'm looking back and the things that we've done we actually couldn't afford to do them because we've stayed in the best hotels and for free and and this because of the job and that and if i if we were to do what what we did at the time we couldn't actually afford the prices now um it's a little bit of caribbean so so it's knowing where's that where's the caribbean but we'll get on to that sorry yeah yeah yeah so so yeah so you've you've got hospitality's got some some amazing um opportunities for people to um so we don't want to sound too negative sometimes yeah but that's that's what i was trying to but it's important that you you find that balance about looking at the positive and because you know it's not it's not easy enough you know we've always said to everybody you know don't go into hospitality if you think you're going to have a good ride because it's not an easy ride definitely if you don't love it don't do it you know every every morning we get up it's a battle it's a battle with uh obviously to pay the bills it's a battle with people trying to rip you off such as the bank over the years you know after two years or three years of of business you realize your bank you know when we had them ppi the bank we're robbing you 65 000 back for ppi of the days and we had no we were starting a business we were starving so you've got this we we're struggling we're struggling at the moment we're struggling with all the the increase we're struggling to to put 10 on on on a dish that that we need to put in in order to you know the new the new pay just let me finish insurance companies 25 how can how can but they've got you by the balls because you can't do you can't run business without insurance now your customer 100 the insurance no it's 25 but but that's big enough but but your customer if he does he decide not to come he won't come because he might have a choice he might go to the pizza place down the road where he'll pay less money or he might go to the supermarket so he might not come to you his wife might have injectable marks on her face but the insurance company you've got to pay it it's a different world we live in now everyone sat at home with beautiful faces and nowhere to go so all these you wake up in the morning and you're battling constantly in business against things like this and and and how to get your extra better your extra business and and i think it's another reframe i i do and it's especially after speaking to craig this morning is it's even though it's every day's a battle and it's um same with this i'm trying to get revenue and sponsorship yeah for this i just picture 30 people um and that was that wasn't even just sending decks i was like why the fuck am i doing this but and obviously it's now working right but even in that moment of time i was would say to myself you could be doing the job like craig where you're so bored i'd rather it's either battle or boredom and i'd rather pick battle you know what i mean every day and at least then you can you can you're in control of how you face it and you come out swinging do you know what i mean um i love some of those delicate reframes let's talk about totti um uh because i think as i was saying before we hit record like that Selfridges would be gagging for that if everyone's listening to that from Selfridges but it's a wonderful array of kind of well the Easter eggs look like something out of them they look like David Bowie Easter eggs if David Bowie was an Easter egg it would be that we did a David Bowie Easter egg in a competition the ones with the colours they look like David Bowie well the chocolatier one we did the chocolatier who made it he made about five or six bowie eggs first before we got one we what's the what did it have his face or something no it had the bolt the bolt yeah it was fantastic hand painted yeah it was this big it was enormous so so we talked about the hardships of uh hospitality hardships of running this pub you've also done a bit of a brand bounce in that you've kind of bounced across to a different category with the delhi talk to me um not necessarily i understand why it started i never liked as much as covid was um rough it didn't start with covid oh interesting no it didn't start with covid again there's a story with everything with what we do this little place behind there um was our cellar it was like an old cellar that we used to use and and we created a new cellar a modern cellar so we had this old building which is quite a nice old but there was a lot of characters so we thought what we would do and then we thought well you could have put a hairdresser and get a lease or whatever out of it and get some money but no we said oh we we're gonna do a deli in it so so we decided to do a deli and and then so we we kitted out and blah blah blah and then my daughter actually came with the name taste of the inn and obviously taste of the inn t o t i totti so totti taste of the inn and and then we played and it's like and everyone likes to wake up with a bit of totti i'd certainly do and that that became the when we say about hospitality and getting the good things out of it that became the playground so obviously there was the main business that you get sometime frustration and blah blah blah but that became the playground so we were very lucky we had a business that we're doing well and then we started playing with that brand and and with the different products that we were going to do chili jam we had a little coffee bar in there and then he evolved and then a few years, two or three years ago well first COVID came and then this brand helped us a lot because through that brand we managed to sell a lot online it was like trying to get a ticket for Glastonbury when we put our totty brownies online we were going how many brownies a day were we doing brownies and they were sold in two minutes online it was gracie and we could bake like 300 boxes and we put them online at 6 p.m and people were literally wet oh 10 seconds flat the lot gone i love the name yeah it's such a good play on words yeah but so the easter eggs and i just think that the the pity fours or petty foie as well yeah you're probably straight before um they they've again it's just over stimulation but in a delicious way it's delicious fun for my brain and they like it's the lips the different colors it's like fuck me it's edible like i love it um what's the so you've got the easter eggs you've got these you've got the brownies is what's the kind of is is this just still a playground or is it what's the goal with it well we've got we've got a set of of of of uh products that we have set ourselves i mean i don't know if you've seen the other things we've got obviously the jars we've got marmalade so it it's obviously it's got a relation with the the business um so we've got a jam that we use everyone who stays with us jam marmalade chili jam that we use um hot sauce we use it in the kitchen as well we've created our own gin as well with a local gin company our toti gin which again has got 12 botanical and all botanicals are botanicals that we choose because the botanical that we like to use in the kitchen such as grapefruit pink peppercorn rosemary, things like this and then the idea was to create different products that we could put in hampers to sell through hampers.

1:37:45So we've got this and we do our onion soup as well, which we're going to now looking at repackaging. We want to do. So we still, the products are there. All made on site. All are made on site. Certain products are not made by us, but influence. We buy all the honey that's processed locally. Locally. Chocolates are made by a friend of mine, a chocolatier. But obviously, Julie and my daughter lead the way in terms of the creativity of... So, for example, the Totti Pride is something that they've developed with him. He's a very, very good chocolatier. They're so sick. He's an amazing chocolatier.

1:38:29Yeah. So all the Easter eggs, for example, are inspiration that we give him of things that we want as a toti product. And then obviously COVID, when we saw that, gave us the idea that maybe, maybe online could be something that would work. But obviously we've got a core business, so everything is done organically at the moment. But we're probably going to be in the next, we've put trademark application which we are at the end of at the moment we've got most of the trademark for all the products we're still fighting for one or two but I think we're going to get there I love the name Totti is just to me it's the play on the words as a bit of you know getting a bit of Totti the Totti like the E makes it sound Italian and premium and quirky you'll see quirky gashonomiki that's why he's saying it I want to wrap up finish where we started with Mr Bowie again we talked about the quirks in terms of how it looks everything you've created, the flair the roots of quirk with the way you treat the staff how the staff treat the customers I'd love to actually get into the food um and i know gene's at the beginning like people came for the food um let's talk about how you david bowie reinvented himself a lot how do you reinvent the food here to get people keeping keeping them coming back but still keeping your values and quirkiness do you know i mean well there's a there's a bit of a i can give you a bit of a summary first of all it all it all come from the basics of french cuisine obviously with the the the inheritance of my past and bordeaux i'm not someone to that like blowing my own trumpet if you see what am i like to to which probably sometime is not a good thing because you get it blowing his trumpet bloody hell because you're gonna burn his trumpet fuck me

1:40:59what what i find more and more than is that um is that obviously um that that that chefs and things now it's all to do sorry i'm being suspended yeah sorry carry on patrick so so yeah we're saying french thing and but i don't like it to be purely the frenchman french food i've always employed a british chef because we are in england and i think it's very important my chef that you met last night chris i've been with us now nine years and he's a lancastrian so he's a pure and bred from around here which is important because therefore you know there is a focus on local ingredients as well he loves foraging so so so we we forage some like for example now we've got totti's got a seasonal product which is our wild garlic pesto um so he goes and get his pesto he's his wild garlic and he does an amazing wild galley pesto but in everything that we do um there's a mix of french technique um french food um element british as well with some british classic like you've you've you've you've tried that sweet pudding yesterday um so british classic um but also going back to to trend And over the years, I've done things.

1:42:30And again, in the development of the staff, I think is very important. A few years back, I took my chef, my general manager, to Copenhagen and Stockholm as well. And in order to experience the best places in the world, Scandinavian cuisine, different things, new things, to see new ways of cooking and things like that. Patrick never has his head out of a book, a catering magazine or what. So there's a mix. And you get inspired by other chefs. Yeah, yeah. That's it. It's like David Bowie, the only art I'll ever steal from, the only art I'll ever study is that of I can steal from. And when I say steal, it's external inspiration, curiosity, internal.

1:43:18And this is what we try to do, basically. we try to use because we have got in our values as a business it was always to try to to help the local economy so we try to use as many local suppliers as possible from the last 17 years everybody's doing it now or everybody claimed to do it but we have been doing it for quite some time now and sometimes it does restrict you with a choice of product that you can get but you know them products are fresh and and and in season they're not coming from Peru or stuff like that then after obviously there's the the the chef my chef that is Lancastrian so there'll be a bit of a mix of local things as well that we like doing you know we've got cocos we use fish from morecambe bay um things like this um and then um and then the quality and the standard of the food that is very important because as i said to you during the conversation i don't we don't serve bad food um you know there might be people doing better food out there i'm not saying that but the food you get there is is is definitely to a to a level that anybody could enjoy so that's almost so linking it to bowie and so that's almost like the black and white so service is black and white hospitality is color using that the bowie quote of uh the only art i'll ever study is the only tasteful thief the only ever start ever art i'll study this art i can steal from going to copenhagen yeah reinventing that way and that reinvents the menu using the internet instagram you know looking at things but never copying never i don't like copying so how okay how do you how do you get inspiration but without copying because that's an art well this is a clever this is the clever thing is is is you don't want you get certain certain elements you might use different ingredients you might use a different presentation you might and and you you making some changes along the way and you you put your soul to it you put your own your own thing and and that's it instead of saying well this is how he's done it and i need to do it like that because that's that's the way he should look and then let's and trying to copy and not being able to copy because there's no way you can replicate what a tour michelin star chef from copenhagen is going to do you know unless you've been trained and and worked with him you're not going to be able to do it so you don't have to be that pretentious that you can copy things but inspiration definitely yeah i think it's that's a really interesting point of of looking but not copying and i think it's the when you go into the inside job you'll never copy because ultimately you could you can get 15 people to look at a nomadish for example yeah 15 people one from france one from lancashire one from surrey one from saint martin their worldview their internal worldview they may look at that as inspiration but when they do the inside job originality comes out so i think that's fascinating um let's let's end with you, Julie, in terms of how you reinvent?

1:46:54Because I feel like you're constantly tinkering, changing things. Patrick says we'll never have any money because I spend too much on tinkering. Where do you want to take this place or what do you want to keep doing with it? Because it's beautiful. Well, I just want to keep making it home. Keep it. That's wild. It's so homely. I don't think she's she's not expressing what she means there what do you want to mean that you I think you want to see that you want to keep it in you don't want to be forced to sell it really you want to keep it but obviously keeping it has got a price because we're not getting any younger and we need to have an exit strategy as well Could you pass it on to the kids or is that too much of a burden for them?

1:47:50Have you thought about that? I don't think, I wouldn't want to put pressure on them to have it. And also because we have built a family of staff, I think it would be more ideally a team of family and staff really. Yeah. But ideally, yeah, we would want to keep it and keep nurturing it, but without having us doing that as much. So you'll still be your baby, but you won't be doing the thing? Well, in an ideal world, we'd love to be able to go and have a month's holiday, which we've never done in 30. We've never had a month's holiday. We've never had more than a week together since we've been in business.

1:48:40so in an ideal world we'd like to be able to go and experience life a little bit and travel and the staff have an in an interest and then come back and i'll say oh i'm going to decorate bedroom 12 now that's i think that's a thousand percent possible i really do i think there's a lot of um yeah i think this place is unbelievable i think it's uh i haven't experienced anything like it um and the and the children i think will always be around it i mean now we have our first grandchild and yesterday was my day of looking at our day before was the grandma's day and i literally saw the tulips and thought get another day out of them i'll just put fresh water and snip the stems, but there was hundreds of tulips and I was babysitting.

1:49:38So, but I took him with me in the pram and he held grandma's bucket and he just loved me putting the tulip ends in the bucket and holding the bucket. And if you can create that from a young age, then you'll always have this cozy environment, won't you? And people were walking through the pub and we still hadn't finished we're still on our last phase of tulips and there was a lady and she was going to be sit down and we were snipping the tulips and he was holding the bucket and she just loved the you know she just loved the fact that my grandson was with me helping me do the tulips and so if you can involve your family forever yeah it's a tricky thing it is a tricky thing because it's some days that you don't want to involve them because you don't want them to be stressful like some days you know you were under stress like the other day we were under stress and our son I didn't realise he was listening and then I said to Patrick go and tell Tao make sure he's not worrying because he you know I mean, at the end of the day, you worry finances, don't you?

1:50:55And if your kids hear you talking about finance, they'll start shooting themselves, you know, because we live in the Carpford Inn and we're all wrapped in clouds. You know, we just have this idyllic life that we all, I mean, customers say to us sometimes, you two need to get out from here and go and see the real world because we live in the Carpford Inn and everything's wonderful. Yeah. You know, Tao's imagination of growing up, living in the Carpford Inn, turned him into... Anyway, in terms of what you were saying about the place, ideally we want this place to keep evolving. I'd love to be 80 and...

1:51:36Pottering around. Pottering around and saying... Because I do feel that it is a special place. I feel that represents some people might call it an old style hospitality but a truth hospitality where it's not just about money it is only about money because we need to pay our staff as much as we can possibly pay them we need to pay the government we need to have a life ourselves and we need to have a future for our children but it's not for that you understand it's not like for the the sake of a shareholder making more money and and and and making more money on there it's a way of life as well it's it's building something that we feel comfortable to live in and and and to welcome people and for people to say wow and enjoy it like you've obviously done the best feeling in the world is when people and i I love to sit in the garden and have a coffee and, and, and people don't know who I am, but I love to hear people's comments.

1:52:48And you often hear someone's bringing a friend and they'll go, Oh, and the owners do this and just look at this. And, and they do that. Come over here and see, you know, so they've been themselves and they're bringing the friend and you just think it's so worth it for that. It's, it's great. You've created your own, you've created, I, in my opinion, your own personal paradise. Yeah. Oh, like, yeah. Minus like, there's a dark underbelly but the so if you can stay in your own personal paradise without having to you know uh what's the word be doing it all day every day like you don't have to be up at six in the morning till 10 at night in the kitchen do you know what i mean and i think the word paradise is a great word because having worked in the caribbean i also know paradise well there There is a paradise, but there is a price to paradise.

1:53:38You know, I always remember I used to work and be extremely frustrated in that paradise. People go to the Caribbean and they see an amazing, beautiful beach and things like this. But when you actually work there, it's a totally different kettle of fish. In what regard? With what regard? Yeah. regard that when you work in in an environment in the caribbean and you try to um um to work towards five star standard i was working for hilton at the time conrad hilton and and the people are lovely and my my best friend is from saint lucia and he was my restaurant manager there and he's still still my best friend um and but they are very very very difficult to work with because they've got their pace of work.

1:54:30And so when you try to run a five-star hotel with that pace for a European person, it can be quite frustrating because you don't see the thing differently. So sometimes what seems like paradise. Sometimes we'd wake up in the morning and everyone was on strike. And then, yeah, you've got strike because you've got this, you've got that um yeah it's um so paradise is a great word really because because there's a there is a price to paradise surprise the paradise let's wrap that up there um i've loved this i've loved talking to you i've loved um i was so it was great to do it this way around i know we were going to do podcasts and then have the meal and stuff i think being able to experience to it last night and then getting into into the roots of quirk or or your yeah i really think you should write a book on the quirks of hospitality or because i think we could tell some stories i think it's yeah because i just think it's it's so as i said it's the the my feet and my my feet are planted in in the in the warmth and the uh coziness of a pub souls fed with food but then my head is in like it is in mars life on mars as david bowie i love that he says so i think um yeah it's been wonderful and yeah patrick julie thank you so so much thank you thank you thank you thank you so so much for listening to the podcast i really really do appreciate it if you like that episode only if you liked it please do give it five stars subscribe tell all your friends families foes next door but one cat dog whatever please tell everyone about this podcast it means the world to me and I really want to understand what your pain points are as the new wave of challenger food and drink brands please do hit me up on linkedin search Dan Pope and hopefully we can together create a more meaningful and powerful podcast for the next wave of challenger food and drink brands thank you so much

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