Stephen Miller Cracking Under Pressure As His Evil Plan Blows Up In His Face

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1:11Booking.com, Booking.yeah. Book today on the site or in the app. Every time there's an election. Yeah. Caravans, migrants. All these criminals are coming across the border. Trans migrants, yeah. That one's the best so it is. Yeah. They're going to eat you. Yeah. All right. Paola Ramos is an Emmy award-winning journalist, contributor for MSNOW, Telemundo, and author of Defectors, The Rise of the Latino Far Right and What It Means for America. She also hosts a podcast with her dad, Jorge Ramos called The Moment. And she joins us today on iHip News. Paula, did I say it right? You got it right actually, yes.

1:55Oh good, good, good. That's one of my favorite because where I come from it's Paula. I know. Paula. They call me Paola, Paula, all sorts of things. So you did very well. Okay, great. I think what we have to, and we don't cover this that much, but there are segments of the United States where we have people that are here and they're not going anywhere. We have an Arab Muslim population. We also have this fabulous, growing, multicultural Latino population that I love, that I think is just such an asset to America. And this voting bloc is not a monolith. And everybody's jockeying for their vote. Everybody's trying to understand.

2:38So Trump got 46 % of Latino voters in the 2024 election. What do you think? He won Latino, man. He won that vote. What do you think they see in him? I mean, so right before the election, right before November 2024, when they asked most Latino voters, do you think that Donald Trump is talking about you when he's insulting immigrants? Like, do you think he is criminalizing you? The majority of Latino voters said no. The majority of Latino voters did not make the connection between Trump's words and them. And so I think now, fast forward to where we are, I think a lot of people are coming to terms with this idea that regardless of how many generations you've been in this country, and regardless of how American you feel, in Trump's America, you don't belong.

3:27Now, that doesn't mean that that's a vote for Democrats at all, which I think that's where Democrats get it wrong. But what it does mean is that that 48 percent saw something in Trump. And I think we can get into the what it is. But I think what I always remind myself is that to be Latina or an immigrant does not make you immune to anti-immigrant rhetoric. It does not make you immune to anti-Blackness. It does not make you immune to transphobia, which was also a big issue. and the painful journey of assimilating in this country and wanting to belong so badly in the in-group, that's something that we go through a lot in our own home countries.

4:06I think in Trump, they saw power, they saw an entry point into whiteness. They saw themselves as part of a group because they didn't want to be cast with those other bad immigrants. They wanted to prove to this Trump world that they were not those bad guys. So there's, it's to me, it goes beyond politics. There's a lot of psychology there. There's a lot of pain. Okay. So let me ask you this. Now we have, we're going to have a generation of people just from these close to 18 months that where children's memories are going to be hiding. They're going to have a memory of their parents sitting them down and saying, you can't go to school today.

4:50or they're going to have a memory of coming home from school and a parent is gone and we're going to have we have victims of bigotry in the legalized systemic targeting uh it's called the kavanaugh rule judge cavanaugh he doesn't like his name associated with that which is why i like to bring it up every chance i can get that you can pull somebody over who looks or sounds latinos so So after that, after this group has fallen prey to the horrors of systemic targeted racism, where do you think this leaves Latino voters? And again, I know they're not a monolith, but this is really targeted racism.

5:36I think there's like three different scenarios that I see. Number one, I think maybe you can see a similar story to what we saw in Arizona under Joe Arpaio. I remember those days of like SB 1070, right, where you had this entire generation of Latinos that grew up watching their parents being criminalized and stopped and deported and self-deported. And then what happened? That generation of Latinos, many of whom were U.S. born or many of whom were dreamers, then became the organizers that helped transform Arizona into a purple state. And so there's a lot to learn from what happened in Maricopa County.

6:11You can have that scenario. What I'm also seeing are, and this is a sad part that we never talk about, there is a group of Latinos, some U.S. born, many that live in mixed status families that have had enough, that have been living in the shadows, not just under Trump, but also under an Obama administration and a Biden administration and previous Democratic administrations that promise comprehensive immigration reform time and time again. And I cannot tell you the amount of conversations I've had with people that wake up every day and say, is it time to go? Do I self-deport or not? And I follow many of those people that are packing up their bags and choosing to go.

6:52And the sad part is, is that there's something very liberating about saying I've had enough. And there's something dignified of that choice, at least when it's your choice. So that's also happening. And then I think you have the other scenario, which I can sense from organizers that are finally kind of still feel mistrust with both parties, but feel a sense of belonging, you know, in a sense of they're finding their voice in this like anti-Trump world. know? And because they somehow, and I think you and I feel the same way, they somehow understand that it's worth fighting for, you know, that this, this going back to this idea like that, this multiracial, multicultural, pluralistic coalition is worth fighting for, and that it is the only hope to get to that, you know, more just version of this experiment that we're all living in.

7:46And so I see those those three scenarios. You know, I'm I sometimes I feel like I'm the most cynical person on Earth because, you know, I'm I cover a lot of these stories. But oftentimes my dad reminds me like, you know, there's something that connects all of us Latinos, whether you're a Trump supporter or not. Someone in your family somewhere, someone believed that it was worth it to come here because of whatever we left behind and told us that it was worth fighting for here. And, you know, my dad is cheesy. I believe him sometimes. And I, you know, but it's a fascinating, fascinating community.

8:26And what drives me is there's curiosity because we don't know the answers. Okay. So let's think about it in terms like this, because everything you're saying is really thought provoking to me, because I feel like in order for us to get through this fascist, abusive takeover that we're all living through right now. We have to build really strong coalitions. And I firmly believe with every fiber in my body that none of us are free until all of us are free. I know that by picking on and bullying and marginalizing trans people, that leaves Latinos vulnerable. It leaves women vulnerable. It leaves everybody vulnerable.

9:00So I think we can leave no one behind. When survivors of the Holocaust or their descendants came to the United States, they historically went to civil rights marches and marched with black Americans. That was the lesson. First they come forth. How do you see the Democrats? Because I hate the two-party system, but it is what we have. And I think the Democrats are the best vehicle that we can get to stop bending the knee to corporations and lift up universal human rights. How did the Democrats get this message to the Latino electorate, this linking of universal human rights? Because I do know there is a component of this, that Latinos historically are probably Catholic and maybe culturally conservative.

9:50Yeah. That's what Reagan said all the time. Reagan was always the one that was like, well, Latinos are conservative. They just don't know it. I mean, they might historically lean towards patriarchal tendencies um uh maybe uh lean towards um some homophobia yeah because you know the catholicism is such a uh ubiquitous presence and evangelicalism now yes so latinos and i know you you talk about this all the time i do i hate the bible thumpers i've heard um i i i too I'm an atheist. But anyways, but but that's so it is interesting because Latinas are the have the highest rate of conversion to evangelicalism more than any other group right now.

10:36And and I think you kind of see an interesting story there. When when I talk to when someone's interviewing Latinos, whether you recently arrived here, they're migrants, they're mixed status families. And you ask them, like, what's one of the first things you do when you when you come to a country that still feels unfamiliar. Oftentimes, they find a church. They find a church because it's their way to community. And then what happens inside of those churches completely transforms one. So of course, people find community, they find solidarity, but I have spent so much time in these churches that sort of insert these very problematic pastors.

11:16We know that story. And that then transform, I think this vulnerability into a political, and I've seen it time and time again, I've spent so much time in the Rio Grande Valley and in Arizona and in California, I've seen the pastors, I've been inside those rooms and I see the way that they turn this vulnerability into a political message and that is all about the right and the wrong, all about this fight between good and evil. And I see the way that that transforms even immigrants and to suddenly then seeing their own and being like, well, no, those other immigrants, no, they're the evil ones.

11:54Is this intentional? Are they, because the right-wing evangelicals have been organized for a very long time and they know how powerful this binary, you know, emotional black will is. Are they intentionally targeting? Yeah, because they can't survive without Latinos. Now, do they want them in? That's a different question, but they know. When Donald Trump launches his Evangelicals for Trump campaign in 2020, where does he go? He goes to Miami. He goes to Miami, Florida. He doesn't go to any other sort of, you know, white county. He goes to Miami, Florida, and he goes into one of the Miami's largest evangelical churches because they know that they need a percentage of Latinos in order to survive.

12:40In order for this white supremacist coalition to survive, they need them and they're there. And so every single evangelical coalition, you have these white pastors doing these mass programs along the southern border. I've seen them. And so I don't know enough to know if there's a real genuine calling for them to want them in. But what I do know is that white supremacy does not survive without a percentage of Latinos. And then what's interesting, too, is that these you're going to have to help me with the pronunciation. Tell it. Tell it. I can't do it. Televangelist. Televangelist. Yes. So I've seen these televangelist programmings now switching into Spanish language in Texas.

13:30And and suddenly they're. Yeah, yeah. No. And it's happening. um and if you go to texas you're doing it on purpose it's strategic totally yeah fuck god that is terrible i mean i had you know i've seen how they do this in the bible belt i see how they do this in rural america i see how they have made uh this a part of community and then and then somebody's whole ethos boils down to church and patriotism and i see firsthand because I grew up in suburban Oklahoma City, and I know how strong of a pull this is. And so the right-wing white supremacist Christian nationalists have been so targeted. They made abortion an issue.

14:18They've targeted gay marriage. They've targeted trans. And it's interesting, the Latino, what does the Latino community know about Stephen Miller? They know who he is. No, but it's funny. No, I mean, so I keep thinking and among my friend of circles were always like some Latino must have broken his heart. Like something must have happened. I think so. In that high school in Santa Monica, like something must have happened because since like he has been dreaming of this moment. Yeah. He was in high school, right? Since he was literally like writing the room, like he was literally like writing letters in his high school, essentially saying that janitors, the Latino janitors were there to like pick up his trash and that they weren't doing it.

15:06And that those other Latino students around him, they had to assimilate. So he's been like dreaming up this moment forever. But going back to this like, you know, white supremacist thing in 2022, one of the things that Stephen Miller does in his group, America First or America Legal First, they go into Spanish language counties in Colorado. And they're specifically spreading out Spanish language flyers with transphobic messaging and wrapped into kind of this like Christian messaging of the right and wrong, which is it all goes back to this like, you know, divine calling like this is our calling.

15:50And I think Stephen Miller, not to give him too much credit, but I think they're all betting on this idea that you really pointed out, which is that there's something about this Christian and transphobic message that would trigger a moral panic that is familiar among some of us Latinos, right? That grew up in these colonized countries where these gender norms were very much ingrained. And the lines between city and church have always been very blurry. And that something about this transphobic, like Christian language would work. And it did. And it did. It worked very, very well. Because beyond the religious aspects, what that language does, which is the same thing that anti-immigrant language does, which is the same thing that fear mongering does, it essentially inspires a sense of disgust, right?

16:36And the disgust is at the heart of what allows a human to dehumanize the other, right? Like, if I find you disgusting, like, I'm not going to see you as a human. And that's what the transphobic messaging does very well among us. And the anti-immigrant message is the same thing. But it's all to me. And that's why like, when I write these books, or when I, you know, when I try and make sense of the things, I talk to scientists and psychologists, because it's not politics, right? It's the feeling. Yeah, it's all about this, like, visceral feeling. It's just disgust. You think there's I've read this before, this isn't my original thought, there's a bargain that is pitched to people, like to let's talk about the role white, triple Trumpers, The bargain for them is these are capitalists with no capital.

17:21But the Republican Party says, if you vote with us, here are immigrants, trans people, and gay people, and black people that you get to demonize. We're going to give you a permission structure. So now to the Latino community, is that here's the bargain. You come to us, and then here is who you get to be better than, these gay people, these trans people. Because this is back to the psychology, and I agree with you, a lot of this is psychological. And these powers, really nefarious powers know this, and they know how to tap into this weakness in the face of the Democratic Party, not standing up against genocide, not standing for universal human rights.

18:08It leaves this vacuum. Exactly. Well, yes, but also if you take a step back and you look at who Latinos are today versus who they were, say, when my dad was starting his career in the United States, we've changed so much. The majority of Latinos right now are the majority are U.S. born. The majority speak English, not Spanish. It's third generation Latinos that are the fastest growing segment among us. And so what that means is that we are so much more Americanized and assimilated than what people think. I think there was a story 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, that really centered our solidarity among this immigrant story.

18:52Because it was closer to us. And it made sense. And we were a community. We were a tribe. But that kind of is disappearing. And we are more American. My siblings, my brother barely speaks. My dad hates it. He barely speaks Spanish. like so and so all this to say that that i think trumpism also bets on that idea i know that there is a small segment and a growing segment of latinos that are so americanized that that they too can sort of um buy into the us versus them game to your point and it is true and then on top of that i do think that there are certain kind of like psychological and like historic things that we have as latinas that we never talked about right all the racial baggage that we carry from latin america like it's so complex right like we come from countries where like the spaniards and the colonizers institutionalized caste systems right where we have been taught to to to sort of see ethnicities and race in in very problematic ways like we we do this like racial dance all the time We've our countries, we come from places where we can like reclassify race and always claim whiteness, you know, because of the Europeans.

20:03Like I can't say the amount of times that have interviewed like right wing Latinos from the Proud Boys, like Enrique Tarrio, all these guys. Yeah. What's going on with that? Okay, so Enrique Tarrio, when you talk to Enrique Tarrio, he'll tell you, well, I'm 60 % black, right? Because he's a black Cuban man and that's their way of shielding themselves from being called racist. But then he always says, you know, 40 % European, right? And that is typically, when you think of like the right wing, like Latino manosphere, the entry point into these like white supremacist bubbles is always this like European, Eurocentric direct lineage that we get to claim.

20:47And they always do that. And that is literally their way into that bubble. What's going on, Antiquetario? Nothing. He's still a loser. I'm like, no, no, but that's the thing. Do they think, I mean, because I think about this with like Clarence Thomas. I think about it with Pam Bondi, you know, and she just had her image taken off the justice front, thrown in the trash can. I think about it with Scott Besson. I think about it with Tim Cook. I think about it with all of the people that think that they are the exception because I, growing up in white suburbia, white, I went to a public high school and there was hardly any diversity.

21:19I mean, hardly any. I know these white supremacists. I know them. 50 years I spent around it. I know that there is the same way that they judged Barack Obama, whose mother was from Kansas, a heritage American, if you will. I know that Enrique of the Proud Boys, I know what they think. I know they're going to call him a W-E-T-B-A-C-K because I've heard it my entire life. I know that they see him as somebody, well, we'll get this Hispanic to do it because we can get him to do this job cheaper. That's exactly it. I know the way they view him. That's it. And that's, that's it. So I was, I was in Miami when Trump pardons the proud boys and pardons the January 6th insurrections.

22:06And I was there for Enrique Tarrio's welcome party, like literally, right? So I was, I was not only, I was with the party. I was at the party, of course. I was at the party, but I was in the press. But I was covering the day before this Latino insurrectionist pardon watch party that they were hosting as Trump was being inaugurated. Some people were even wearing their court ordered ankle bracelets. And they were all waiting to be pardoned and I saw it. And then they were waiting for Enrique Tarrio's release. And the story will make sense in a second, but essentially Enrique Tarrio, Trump pardons him and Enrique Dario gets to Miami where he is essentially seen as this like anti-communist hero and was the martyr when that's the way that he was received.

22:49He comes down, there's like all these photos of him in the airport. He finally has a press conference. What I found interesting is that Enrique is sitting there with his little glasses and he was always this tough guy, but joking, he says, well, maybe Trump is going to call me because maybe I'm going to get a job at the White House. Maybe I'll go to DC. And they're in that voice. And I've covered him for a long time. There was something in me that said, oh, you really believe that you will be called? Like, you really believe that he likes you, that you're in the in group? No one has ever called him.

23:25He's still in Miami. And that's the story of a lot of these people that in the Proud Boys, Enrique saw a boys club that made him feel cool. And then suddenly the Roger Stones of the world call him and Trump calls him because they need a Latinos for Trump warrior. And then he becomes radicalized by that power and he feels cool. And then he becomes the literal soldier that enlists everyone to go into the Capitol. And then he serves the longest sentence than anyone else. And now he's lonely. He has nothing. And it goes back to what you said in 2020 when Trump loses the election. all the Proud Boys look at Enrique Tarrio and the white men say, the West belongs to the white race and the white race alone.

24:14And we owe nothing to you. And they kind of like turn their backs on him. And it's exactly what you're saying. It's all a game. It's all a power game. Totally. Yeah. Let's talk, shift gears about the lady that she did the rally in Miami and she saw the dancing. I will vote for Donald Trump. And then fast forward. and it's really sad and I don't enjoy human suffering. Like I don't really like triple Trumpers. I don't want to hang out with them, but I don't want them to die and I want them to have healthcare. All right. So this lady, she is, you know, I mean, it is high times. She's campaigning for Trump.

24:56She's having salsa rallies and it is just, you know, all grins and giggles. And then Then fast forward into Stephen Miller's machinations of his plan to deport 100 million people so he can have an easier route through the emergency room. Somebody she loves was deported and she's on camera snot slinging and crying. Speak to the Latino voter who believed that they were the exception and then somebody they love has been separated or damaged. and what is going on with her now? Is she still a Trumper? You know, so I was just in Miami. And so in Miami, it's interesting, right? Because in Miami, you have the heart of Trump's Latino coalition, which are Cubans and Venezuelans.

25:46And many of them truly, truly believe that they were untouchable, right? I cannot tell you the amount of Cuban voters who are the most loyal Trump voters out there, how now for the first time ever, they're now being impacted by immigration. Like I have text conversations and I'm on the phone with this one Cuban woman who voted for Trump, rallied for Trump, campaigned for him. Her husband, who is also Cuban, was detained and was then deported to Cuba, which is just like the hypocrisy there, right? of like you vote for this man who promised to be the liberator of the communist regime and then sends your husband to Cuba and now this this Cuban man is now essentially in Mexico and so that is happening everywhere you know these these trump supporters that are realizing that they too are being racially profiled and that they too have family members that are now impacted and it's very hard for a Latino to not know someone that is being impacted and so the question is now what?

26:54I do think that there is some type of remorse, right? Like I do this woman that I talked to, she doesn't just feel guilty. She feels a lot of shame, a lot of shame. And to the point that like, you know, she's bullied online and people are like, why do you know you deserve this? Is I think now what's interesting for Democrats, right? That I'm also kind of seeing the way that they're organizing. That's the moral question for them, right? Do you bring them in? Are they welcomed back in or are those already like if you already voted for Trump once and you believed in the message, can you bring them in?

27:30And I don't think, I don't know that they figured that out. No, I don't, I'm not sure. I think the answer to that, Paola, is I think accountability is important. Me too. I think that if a Latino person, and I understand the dynamics of trying to navigate the United States and the racial structure of it. And even though I'm a woman, my skin, my accent, everything has put me ahead in a lot of ways in this country. And if a Latino person found, because both parties have failed us and they found some sort of home, 77 million Americans Republicans did when they voted for him. But the message from that is, I screwed up and here's why.

28:24And like recently I'll tell you, you know, I realized that I contributed to a lot of this. I voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016. I worked for her in 2016. Yeah. You know, and I, at the time, I remember my son called me a centrist and I was like, I'm not a centrist. I'm so liberal in all of these things. And I don't dislike Hillary Clinton. I agree with her probably on 90 % of everything. But I realize now my lesson is I was able to vote for Hillary Clinton because I was a wealthy white woman. I didn't have to worry about working class Americans that didn't have healthcare, that didn't have dental care, that their wages weren't going up because my wages were going up.

29:11And so there's an accountability that I think is important. And I think the answer to a lot of this is we all have to be engaged politically and have robust conversations about all of it. About all of it. Yeah, you're right. I think one of the questions that I think is dividing the party, and I think it goes back to the Hillary and Bernie division or tension will be the ICE question. Like, do you want, and I think candidates will be forced, because one thing is to rally behind immigrants now and now suddenly everyone cares about the raids, but then the moral question for the party will be like, do you abolish ICE or not?