In short
The episode argues that Republicans are abandoning Trump after his political strategy backfires, while the White House is “imploding.” It claims Senate GOP leaders (e.g., John Thune) are begging Trump to spend his reported $400M “war chest,” but Trump withholds support to force passage of the “SAVE Act” (federalizing elections) and to blame GOP losses on others. The hosts cite a USPS whistleblower alleging mail-ballot bundles could be trashed if one ballot is mismarked, and they discuss Robert Garcia calling for USPS oversight hearings. They also criticize Republican “lazy” messaging from billionaire Scott Bessent, and claim AI/job losses make that rhetoric implausible. They discuss Democrats’ internal conflict: disciplinary action against Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene and Rep. Jared Golden for voting with House GOP.
Notable examples
Apple Maps changing “Lake Ontario” to “Lake America,” Trump voting by mail, and Texas provisional voting/polling-location reductions.
Guests
Mike Nellis (host/recurring commentator) and John Thune (discussed, not a guest); other figures are referenced (Scott Bessent, Robert Garcia, Nancy Pelosi, Hakeem Jeffries, Jared Golden, MGP, Laura Loomer, Zoran/Brandon Johnson, Andre Vasquez, Kat Abagazal).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOTrump's Influence on GOP Funding
0:45 to 4:25
Discussion on Trump's reluctance to fund GOP candidates with his war chest.
“So we've got to make sure those races are resourced.”
Republicans' Lack of New Ideas
4:25 to 7:18
Exploration of the GOP's failure to propose new solutions and their strategy focusing on cultural issues.
“And he says something rather interesting about Democrats.”
Whistleblower Claims on USPS
7:18 to 10:14
Examination of a whistleblower's claims regarding mail-in ballot handling by USPS and its implications for elections.
“And if we look at the deficit right now,$40 trillion, that tells me we don't have a whole lot to show for it except for a bunch of wars started on lies.”
Election Integrity and Cheating Concerns
10:14 to 12:20
Discussion on election integrity, Trump's mail-in voting hypocrisy, and the ongoing risks to the electoral process.
“Illinois is right behind them in terms of the way that they make sure that all the ballots are cured correctly and that people aren't voting.”
Democratic Party's Internal Struggles
12:20 to 14:00
Analysis of the tensions within the Democratic Party and calls for stronger leadership.
“I want a Democratic Party that works for all of us, works for everybody, and quits servicing the same corporations and lobbyists that also are servicing fascism.”
Critique of Democratic Leadership Styles
14:00 to 18:04
Discussion on the current leadership within the Democratic Party and the longing for stronger leadership akin to Nancy Pelosi's style.
“And this is something that I will say is lacking in Democratic leadership right now.”
Party Disloyalty and Political Strategy
18:04 to 24:34
Analysis of the actions of certain Democratic members and their implications for party loyalty and electoral strategy.
“guy, but I debated him on Sean Spicer's podcast.”
Corporate Influence and Political Accountability
24:34 to 27:18
Exploration of how corporations like Apple navigate political landscapes and their responsibilities towards workers and consumers.
“But that's presuming that the customer base is actually the end Apple user and not their shareholders.”
The Future of Corporate America
27:18 to 28:00
Discussion on the implications of corporate actions on democracy and the need for regulation in corporate America.
“I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying because, I mean, you're right.”
Corporate America and Stakeholder Value
28:00 to 29:05
Learn about the shift in corporate focus from stakeholder value to profit maximization.
“Oval Office, I'm going to tell Donald Trump that he's wrong, he's going to lose his job tomorrow.”
Show all 15 chapters
The Role of Democrats and Corporate Influence
29:05 to 30:54
Discuss how Democrats can leverage corporate interests to benefit workers and the public.
“these non-corporate Democrats that talk about the problem and the exploitation of these corporations and how they want the Democrats to service them or they want the Republicans to service them.”
Political Accountability and Reform
30:54 to 32:22
Examine the need for accountability from corporations and the significance of bold political reforms.
“People should subscribe because he's awesome.”
Local Governance and Community Trust
32:22 to 34:16
Explore how effective local governance can foster community trust and address immediate needs.
“When he put Lena Kahn in his, it sent a signal that we are not servicing you.”
Engagement and Responsiveness in Politics
34:16 to 37:08
Learn about the importance of political engagement and responsiveness to gain public trust.
“We can see where he's reminding us that government is, we're not supposed to be mad at the government.”
Challenges in Modern Democratic Campaigning
37:08 to 39:18
Discuss the flaws in modern Democratic campaign strategies and the need for community connection.
“that I care about you and people will trust you if you handle the basic core competencies of supporting individual people.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:04All right, Mike Nellis is back and we're just going to start ripping immediately. Mike, John Thune, which is the Senate majority leader, who I don't browbeat enough, and I'm going to set that aside. He goes on Fox News to beg Trump to start donating his$400 million war chest to Senate candidates. Let's play the clip. I think it's happening here. And is that money going to start rolling anytime soon? We certainly hope so. The Senate leadership fund is engaged in all the races that you identified and mentioned earlier, we've got a big field. And obviously the firewall to defending the majority in the Senate is going to revolve or hinge on winning those races.
0:45So we've got to make sure those races are resourced. But we are certainly hopeful that the president and his team and MAGA Inc. will be engaged in some of these races. What do they tell? What do you think? You think Trump's going to give any of us$400 million? Yeah, I think he'll spend some of it, but I think they're going to wish that he hadn't because the reports on it is that he's not going to spend it to go help ken paxton or go help any of the other candidates it's that he's going to spend it to talk about his own record and he's so narcissistic that he can't get beyond the idea that america's not having a golden age that these republican candidates need to be better defined they need to go after the democratic candidates they're not going to do it and all summer republicans have been saying just wait the polls aren't reflective like donald trump's going to spend all this money that's going to change things but we might be in a situation where the election is already baked um and now all they have is just trying to cheat yeah and And don't you think, I mean, I think when it comes to like money, pardons, he loves dangling something over people because he's a very petulant, small little man.
1:42And so I think he wants them on begging. And then he can say in a humiliation ritual, oh, you know, the Senate majority leader's begging me to get involved. And so he's going to use it as they want me involved when really what he's wanting is this money. And Donald Trump, I heard that he was going to make the convention, the midterm convention, all about him, the Trump-a-palooza, which I'm all for. What are your thoughts? No, I think it's great. It's an in-kind contribution to the Democratic Party. I appreciate the Republicans for doing it. Apparently, he's going to speak every night. God bless.
2:16I don't know what I did to deserve that. I think the other thing that's at play here is he's desperate for them to pass the SAVE Act, which is really about federalizing America's elections. I think the fact that John Thune will not kill the filibuster in order to pass that is the reason Donald Trump is withholding this money. And I think he wants, I think at this point, for Republicans to lose the midterm election so we can blame it on that and continue to further degrade people's trust in our election. So I think that's really what it's about. Because he said, there's no reason for anybody to be mad at me.
2:42They're mad at the Republicans. They love Donald Trump. Trump's doing a good job. They're mad at the GOP, which is not true because Trump's approval rating is lower than the Republican parties, which, by the way, both of them are lower than the Democratic parties, which is also pretty low. Basically, people hate everybody right now. Yeah. Okay. This is a hypothetical question, but if you were hooked up to True Sermon, a polygraph and somebody asked you, how many Republican senators do you think deep down want the Democrats to win so that they can put up a guardrail that we can't because we're too chicken shit?
3:14No, I don't think that's the way they think, but I do think they want us to win because they like being the dog that chases the car. The thing about the Republican party is they have no new ideas to improve your life on any level. What's the Republican healthcare plan? What's the Republican economic agenda? I couldn't tell you what it is. What I can tell you is I know there's a lot of stealing and there's a lot of thieving, but I think they like being just that dog that chases the car. I mean, I was on Fox News the other day getting yelled at by Clay Travis about trans kids for the thousand times.
3:41I just was like, Clay, you need some new material. What is it? I think I just go show you, they don't understand why they won in 2024, which is really about the economy. So they never developed any actual solutions to deal with the economic crisis. And because of that, they're trapped on like, let's attack trans kids for the thousand time. That'll scare suburban female voters into voting for Republicans in the fall. It's not going to work because that's not why they won in the first place, A, but B, it's because they're in charge. When you're in charge, you get punished for everything that happens.
4:06That's what happened to Joe Biden. There were a lot of things that wasn't the Biden administration's fault or Kamala Harris's fault, but they got blamed for them anyway because you're in charge and they just don't get that. All right. So they're going to put Trump out there front and center because he can't help himself. And he is the Republican Party. He is the brand. He is all they have. And so his cabinet members, like Scott Bessent, who's a billionaire, they're out doing their own sense of stumping. And he says something rather interesting about Democrats. Let's play the clip. About socialism here in the U.S., when we look at the demographic of those voters, they are overeducated and under earning.
4:44So these are underachievers who are jealous of those who want to go and work every day. So he's basically saying that Democrats don't want to work and are lazy. Yeah. This messaging that somehow we're jealous of MAGA is really a tell on them that they genuinely lack fundamental self-awareness in any capacity at all. And they live, Scott Bessent, Donald Trump, all of the billionaires that kissed the ring, They are so detached from the normal American experience. These people do not go through TSA lines. They don't drive their own cars. They do not go to the grocery store. They have probably, in 10 years, none of them have ever pumped gasoline into a car.
5:31I would bet that Donald Trump has never pumped gasoline into a car. Why would he have ever pumped gas? He was born with a golden spoon up his ass. So was Scott Besson, by the way. Scott Besson is not a self-made billionaire. By the way, he looks like a guy who just laid off your dad. and it's just, they keep putting out these guys. What's the other little weasel guy's name that they have on CNBC all the time talking about how great the economy is. I forget, I can see him, but he kind of looks like the energy vampire from What We Do in the Shadows. Have you seen that show? No, I haven't seen that show, but it sounds like you're describing Stephen Miller.
5:58Yeah, it's not Stephen Miller though. He's somehow less charisma than Stephen Miller. Oh God. I'll find his name later. Somebody in the comments will pull it out. I appreciate whoever you are out there is following it for me. But they are very disconnected from the day-to-day lives of most Americans. They're disconnected from what's actually happening. I mean, today we got the jobs report from ADP and we, I think we only gained like 30 ,000 jobs. We lost 17 ,000 manufacturing jobs. So you're going to tell those 17 ,000 workers who just lost their job that they're lazy or that they're jealous of MAGA.
6:23Like, I'm not jealous of MAGA. Okay. Like I'm doing well, you're doing well. It's fine. There are a lot of people though, that I think believed in and trusted a system. So think about all of the coders who went to school for a long time and took out massive amounts of student loan debt in order to get those coding degrees. And now AI is basically eating those jobs alive. and you see that in the jobs numbers, like those jobs are shrinking right now. So like people are mad. People want to work. I've never met anybody who didn't want to work for the most part. People would like it to be a little bit easier.
6:48I just, they're so disgusting. Same thing that Carolyn Levitt did like a month or two ago when she came back from maternity leave, she went on Fox News. She was like, all, all Gen Z are lazy. Like people in my generation are lazy. They just don't want to work. They want everything for free. And like, nobody wants anything for free. We want basic infrastructure that helps support our lives. You wouldn't tell seniors that they're lazy because of Social Security and Medicare. I just don't get it. Don't you think that this is a part of the Republican lie since Reagan that poor people are lazy? This sort of demonization of the poor as a scapegoating tactic while the very wealthy are fleecing the country.
7:23And if we look at the deficit right now,$40 trillion, that tells me we don't have a whole lot to show for it except for a bunch of wars started on lies. And we have spent trillions of dollars on the United States military. It's still not enough. They still want more. Pete Hex said, the most incompetent military person in the military is in charge of the military. He's the only one left who works there now. Yeah. And it's just, I think a lot of this lazy stuff, it started under Reagan and this demonization, this scapegoating. And I think as people wean off of corporate news and good for you for going on and throwing through truth bombs all the time, but as these spaces build and build up that stuff that scott besson is saying it just doesn't land it's not relatable in the world anymore because if anything when i think of lazy i think of the guy that gets up and goes to work every day and falls asleep on camera with rfk jr speaking right here which is incredible to be able to take a nap with rfk in his voice right here it's so grating how does he do that it's honestly impressive i like to know what drugs he's on i wish they'd be transparent with his medical records because maybe i would sleep better and i just find a guy whatever sort of cocktail All right.
8:31And here we have, so we have, they're going to trot Trump out. They have gerrymandered, which a lot of people are now calling dummy mandering because it's not working out very well. And now we have really a whistleblower with the United States Postal Service. And Trump has had a bee in his bonnet about mail-in ballots since Joe Biden beat him in 2020. And this whistleblower, this brave whistleblower comes out and talks about how if one of the ballots in a bundle of 10 ,000 was mismarked or something, then instead of just throwing that one ballot out, the United States Postal Service would just trash all 10 ,000 of them.
9:09And so we have this final guardrail, which is our midterm. And we have all of this election interference slash cheating that is going on. And Robert Garcia, who I just absolutely love, the congressman from California, is responding to the whistleblower report. Let's play the clip. USPS is in the jurisdiction of the oversight committee. We need to have immediate hearings, bring in the postmaster general, bring in folks from the postal service leadership there to understand who was giving the direction, who is trying to gain access to vote by mail, and trying to essentially rig the election in the midterms and in 2028.
9:48What's like the intersection of like incompetence or just outright ability? And I don't know which it is, but I think we can guess like they're gonna do everything they can to steal the election. I think we know that. Donald Trump's been really honest about that from the SAVE Act to this to everything else. By the way, Donald Trump votes by mail. I just want to be really clear about that. It's secure enough for the president of the United States, but it's not secure enough for you because they don't like the way the Democratic states handle it. They complain about California counting the ballots that arrive after but are postmarked before the election.
10:13But literally, the reason California takes so long is that it has the most secure elections in the nation. Illinois is right behind them in terms of the way that they make sure that all the ballots are cured correctly and that people aren't voting. I mean, they got caught lying when Trump gave that speech. Who's that? a month and a half ago where he was talking about all the non-citizens that voted and it turns out they were counting dead people who were on the rolls but didn't actually vote. And so it's just like, look, the polling situation for Trump is dire. He's underwater in 47 out of 50 states.
10:40I don't know what they're drinking in Wyoming, but God love them. I think it's Wyoming, Idaho, and like Arkansas, like those three states are still above water. And I could be wrong about that, but he's at 31 % approval rating. Like there's no chance that the Republicans are going to win the midterms unless they cheat. It's just, that's all that they do. So they're going to try everything they can. I just think the wave is going to be too big for them to be able to rig. So now hopefully we got enough attention on all this stuff to make sure that they can't get away with it. But like, it's a scary situation.
11:07And I think people need to be careful about what they do. Like if you're going to mail in a ballot, like make sure you check to make sure that it was sent. Or if you're living in Texas right now, they just removed what? 1.2 million people. They put them on them. I forget the name of the list, but basically they were saying that they couldn't confirm your address. So now they've put you on a special list. You have to vote provisionally in the fall. And they just closed, I think, like 32 % of the polling locations in Tarrant County, which used to be a Republican stronghold, but is now an emerging Democratic stronghold.
11:32So they're twisting everything they can. Yeah, it always seems that the Republican Party is always the one that likes to lecture everybody about freedom, but has always wanted to take away everybody's rights, the rights of women, the rights of the LGBTQ plus community. The Voting Rights Act was gutted, and that just kind of happened. and we've all just moved on from it, just like the Roe v. Wade decision being gutted. We've all just have to move on from it. But within our own party, we have a little bit of a civil war going on. And the way I see it is you have a lot of corporate Democrats that are preservationists that want to preserve the system that the Democratic Party has evolved into in a post-Citizens United world.
12:15I'm a progressive Democrat, and I want to go back to the FDR style of the Democratic Party. I want a Democratic Party that works for all of us, works for everybody, and quits servicing the same corporations and lobbyists that also are servicing fascism. And two Democrats are siding right now with little Moses Mike Johnson. Pop this up. Punchbowl News. House Democratic leadership announced disciplinary action against MGP and Jared Golden after bailing out the House GOP, the decision by two of our colleagues to blindside the entire House Democratic Caucus and join with the Republican majority to pass a procedural rule on the brink of failing represents a significant breach of trust.
12:59It necessitates a serious response, and we have asked the Committee on Caucus Rules to take this up in short order. Yeah, what is the actual disciplinary action, I think is my first question, because asking the Rules Committee to take a look at it is an actual disciplinary action. So it's like a classic like Congress is like, I'm going to make it seem like there's something happening here. And like in reality, like we'll be on to the next 10 things that we're mad about tomorrow. Right. I think for MPG, like she's running in an R plus 10 race. So I always try to give her like a lot of latitude because like she's probably the best we're going to be able to do in a district like that.
13:31This is particularly frustrating. I don't think Nancy Pelosi basically came out and said she's like, I've never seen this happen before. I have that right here. Let's put Nancy Pelosi up. Nancy Pelosi on Democrats MGP and Jared Golden bailing out Republicans to approve a rule. She says voting for the rule is something that I, as Speaker, never, we didn't even consider that anybody would do that. We never had that problem. So I'm disappointed that they did that. And this is something that I will say is lacking in Democratic leadership right now. She ruled with an iron fist. She had power and she used it.
14:10She whipped people into shape. She whipped votes into shape. And a lot of super, super progressive Democrats have criticism of Nancy Pelosi. And that's fair. We should be the party that welcomes criticism within our own party because we're not in a cold. But I really long for that style of leadership in the Democratic Party right now. Yeah. I mean, look, I don't hate Hakeem Jeffries the way that a lot of other people do in the party, but this is a concerning thing. And I thought like his response to it yesterday was also sort of poor because he was like, I don't know what happened. Go ask Catherine.
14:43He was talking about Catherine Clark as whip. And I'm like, you guys need to know what's going on. Like you need to know when your members are going to vote against you. And you know, both MPG and Jared Golden were saying that like, they didn't even have anybody to reach out to them to ask about how they were going to vote, which is also problematic. So maybe it's a warning sign to like, Hey, you got to like tighten up your, your, your whipping operation or something like that. But for Golden in particular, like Golden is leaving, like he's retiring. So like, Why did he do this? It's one thing for MPG to go, I'm running in a very difficult district.
15:07I'm going to take this vote. And yes, the left online is going to be really mad at me and the party will be mad at me, but that's good for my brand in a district where I need to look independent. It's another thing when you're leaving and you're just shivving the party on the way out the door. I don't understand it. But I also know that for Golden, my guess is he's probably got some kind of lobbying job lined up and positioning himself as anti-socialist, which is what the core of the vote was about, I think is probably what's happening there. Not dissimilar from what Fetterman does on a daily basis.
15:29I don't know. But it was disloyal and it was wrong. and I think it raises questions about leadership. I think this theory that there is a rotating villain strategy within the Democratic Party keeps proving to be true, that there are agreements that, okay, we're going to keep certain pillars of this corrupt system where we service corporations. And so they rotate who takes the votes, who gets the hickey, who, and you see that come into play more and more. And I think it's just wild that we have politicians right now in all over the country that are taking on the very entities that are dismantling our democracy.
16:08And you have Zoran, Abdul, Angie Nixon and others who are not taking corporate PAC money, who are taking on their own establishment party, plus all the fascist donors and winning. And that is like such an amazing thing. And the fact that in the middle of the party, there's criticism of that or there's this desire to want to sabotage Abdul El-Sayed. And I heard somebody, I can't remember who he was, talking about like, well, Abdul wouldn't be my first choice. And this is a Democrat saying this. And it's just like, I wish you had that energy towards MAGA. I wish that they had the energy that they had towards Zoran, that they have towards Abdul, that they have towards Angie Nixon.
16:55I wish they had that towards MAGA. Yeah. I mean, a couple of things. Like one, I don't buy the theory that there's like a rotating group of Democrats that are just like passing off votes because it's almost always the same group of people that are doing it. Like it's almost like when I saw that it was two, I could have told you immediately it was MPG and Jared Golden. And the other one would have been like Tom Susie. And I don't think that Tom Susie would be that disloyal to party leadership. So I don't, same thing with the Iran folks. I think that's where that sort of started online. I think Ken Klippenstein like talked about that.
17:22I don't think that that's right. Also just having worked for a lot of them, at least like in different parts of my career, like I just, I don't buy that there's like that much level of coordination inside the Democratic Party. Like we can't coordinate a birthday party at this point. And again, I think that that leads to the broader questions about party leadership right now and Akeem and the relationship with Catherine Clark. I think they've got to sort of settle that, especially, I mean, look, we're going to win the house barring like some sort of active god which might happen um on the the stuff about abdul and the stuff about mamdani um like i i absolutely hate the attacks on abdul from people within our party and the folks that are going on fox news right now and attacking abdul and going i'm never going to vote for him like almost always if you go look at their bio like they're like an ex administration official that now works at a pro-trump lobbying firm um and i'm sick of that crap i debated one of them his name was julian um his last name escapes me he was a former clinton guy, but I debated him on Sean Spicer's podcast.
18:09And I was like, every Democrat is better than every Republican. And I can have disagreements with Abdul and I can have disagreements with Angie, Angie Nixon. I can have disagreements with others, but like, I've never, I can't think of a single time in my 20 years doing this, that a Republican winning was better than a Democrat winning, because I'm not going to give more power to these people who are horrible. And I, and I think the Democratic party has got to look up to that. And Abdul wasn't my first choice. Like I worked for McMorrow in that primary. I thought she would have been a better candidate for the general.
18:30I still feel that way, but Abdul's the nominee. The voters made their decision. Like people need to put their shit aside. We can get back to arguing about it. And I'm tired of arguing about a son piker and i'm tired of arguing by the way why do republicans have to argue about laura loomer who is way crazier than a son piker is on her on his worst day and has more way more control in the federal government because she just got like milo um deported to another country like why is a random podcaster able to get people deported why is she able to get the doj to investigate somebody like me because that's happening right now so it's just it's it's doj's yeah did you not did we not did i not send you this no oh yeah there was a new york times article uh two three weeks ago it's based on the old conspiracy theory that laura loomer created that has to do with me and my business partner funneling money to the judge in the Trump fraud case, which makes no sense.
19:09And the House Judiciary Committee opened an investigation into my company in 2024. We fought it and basically won. Now the DOJ is doing the same thing. And I can't talk about the pending litigation of it other than to say that it's bullshit. But it all starts from Laura Loomer. No, I think it's absolutely incredible that Laura Loomer has said so much just horrid racism towards very successful black. She attacked Angie Nixon, right? Yeah. Angie Nixon and Ketanji Brown Jackson. And it's. She's a nasty woman. She's really, it's really disgusting. And speaking of disgusting, the corporations that we all use all of their products, like Apple, don't know how to read the room.
19:55at all. So Trump, of course, sits down at one of his kindergarten show and tells in the Oval, and he decides he's going to cross out Ontario and write America in. Nobody takes this seriously, and I would think nobody's taking it seriously, but Apple has caved to Trump. And if you open up your iPhones right now, Tim Cook, gay man, you know, a token in the fascist movement. I want to remind him tokens get spent first. He has changed our maps to say Lake America. Pop this up. Apple Maps is now rolling out Lake America in place of Lake Ontario for US users after Trump signed an executive order and contacted Apple directly.
20:42This is a part of when I think about the message that needs to be sent in our midterms, like the people that I want to receive it are the Supreme Court, of course, all of MAGA that refused to stand up for their constituents, refused to stand up for our democracy, but also all of these oligarchs. I want them to know this. We hate you guys. I actually don't think we hate you enough. You want to fleece the American worker. You want to try to get out of paying taxes. You're partnering with people like Scott Besant who calls the people that work for your companies lazy. You refuse if you're Walmart to pay your people a livable wage and then call Walmart workers lazy while we're subsidizing the fact that you don't pay them enough money to live by having to pay for food stamps, Medicare, Medicaid.
21:38And on top of all of that, they are coming for every American workers wages. It's not enough of all of the money that they have. They want robots to replace human labor so that they can then extract and suck every cent because it's not enough that they don't pay taxes. It's not enough that Trump is rigging the entire system, even more so than it was rigged for them to ascend to this level. They still continue to cave. And I want these oligarchs to understand that their consumer, the American consumer, is sending a very loud message. We want them regulated. We want them paying taxes. We don't want this stupid shit.
22:22I mean, nobody wants to open up their phone. I mean, and let's talk about what state Lake Ontario hugs up against, New York. Nobody wants to see that shit. I mean, this is something for just the the bare bone cultists. It's like, oh yeah, fuck yeah, America. Yeah, we're badass. We got a lake and a gulf. Fuck yeah, Trump. Yeah, it's stupid performative nonsense, which is, by the way, the same thing they would attack Democrats for because we do lots of performative stuff that they make fun of us for. Nothing like that. Nothing like that. Nothing like that. That's a false equivalent. No, no, no, I'm saying that's the stuff that they would attack us for that now they cheer for.
22:57That's the point I'm making. Not making the same thing as what we do. I think like for if you're Tim Cook and you're Apple, And I'm not defending them, to be clear. I actually think they read the room pretty well. And they know. I don't. Well, I think it's, they're barreling down an administration where there's two and a half more years and they've got government contracts and other things that they need from the Trump administration. So they're going to cave. But if you look at it right now, what's Meta doing? Meta is donating to both sides right now. And I make this point all the time, particularly when I go on Newsmax or I do like a daily wire show or something like that.
23:24There's partisan politics. And then there's something way beyond that. Because all these corporations, all these billionaires in the Epstein class and everywhere else, they just play both sides of the game. And that's the problem is it feels rigged, but it actually is rigged. And so the minute that Democrats take back the House and Senate, the minute it's clear that Democrats are going to win the presidential election in 2028, which I think is likely where we're going, they're going to just suddenly go and just start moving themselves over. And then they're going to be like, we've actually been with you the whole time.
Read the full transcript
23:48And so right now they're trapped. And the question for Democrats now is how will we use power to influence them the way that Donald Trump influences Apple and all these other major corporations? Because all they care about is their shareholder value. That's Tim Cook's job. Like Tim Cook's job is to maximize shareholder value for people who own Apple stock. That's the whole thing. And maybe that's not the right way for them to think about it, but that's how they think about it. So if you're a democratic president, how are you leveraging that to get the things that you need from this class of people?
24:12Because Donald Trump has proven that you can sort of walk these people, put these people on a leash, like walk them around. So like we can do that too. And the question is, how do we do that to make sure we support American workers? I also think we need to be breaking up concentrations of wealth and power in this country. There's a lot of monopolies that need to be broken up in America today. It's a big part of the reason workers are getting screwed, dealing with AI and robotics, like you mentioned is a huge issue so i think democrats have to be prepared to use power that way otherwise they're just going to like do it very performatively and then if we just go back to the way that was eight years from now when nick fuentes is president like we're going to be in a worse situation i want to push back on two points number one that apple is trapped and i would add an adjective in front of that and say they are willfully trapped the people who have pushed back and not bent the knee on trump have gone to court and won the people who have not capitulated have won and the other thing i would like to push back on is that um apple is good at reading the room apple ceo made up an award made a trophy waltzed into the oval office and presented it to donald trump there's nothing about reading the room i would argue that that's the perfect reading of the room because i understood that donald trump is a is a little crybaby man baby that wants an award to get whatever they want but i would i would argue that that's not reading the room of where your customer base is.
25:24Right. But that's presuming that the customer base is actually the end Apple user and not their shareholders. That's the point that I'm making is Tim Cook wakes up in the morning and is like to maximize shareholder value, which means I got to get these government contracts, means I got to keep the tax. Which is why I want them to receive the message that what you were talking about, about breaking up concentration of wealth, they need to be severely regulated. They should not have that kind of access to a president. A president should not have that kind of access to him. If you look at the stark contrast between the way the executive of the city of New York, Zoran, is running things, it's just not an option for a corporation to do any of this shit because he's incorruptible.
26:07The same with Bernie Sanders. And so we have to really call out these corporations because they're playing a short-term impulsive game. And Apple is big enough and it's too big to fail. It's big enough to have set this one out. They have agency and they have autonomy and they have willfully chosen to fund fascism. A gay man that is the CEO of this company immediately paid the money and went and sat down behind a man who used a bullshit imaginary thing. these kids are going to school. Their wieners are getting whacked off and they're coming home. And the parents are like, oh my God, what happened to our kid?
26:51We need corporate leaders in the United States, especially a gay man like Tim Cook to stand up and say, no, you used my community and lied about my community and our corporation will be the resistance. Absolutely not. I'm not bending the knee. They've got enough money, a bank account that can choke a whole field full of bulls. They have so much cash. And this is willful on their part. It is willful. And in my mind, in the reckoning of all of this, it's unforgivable. It's absolutely unforgivable. I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying because, I mean, you're right. They are willful about that.
27:29I'm just sort of trying to explain where Tim Cook, I think, comes from because he loses his job if the share price goes down too much. And Donald Trump is currently manipulating the stock market right now to keep it high. He can manipulate the stock market to put Apple in the ground probably. And again, Apple shareholders and that class of people that own the majority of Apple over the course of all these different investment funds and all these rich people, they're not going to tolerate that. So if Tim Cook, I think in this environment, I'm not, again, I'm not justifying this for people watching.
27:56I'm not justifying this playing. It's like, I think if Tim Cook goes, I'm going to stand up for trans kids and I'm going to go in the Oval Office, I'm going to tell Donald Trump that he's wrong, he's going to lose his job tomorrow. And we'll celebrate him and that will be great. And then he's out of the job. And so he's probably making an adjustment of like, all right, I can do more good by playing this game here, which again, I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. I'm just saying that's how corporate America operates because it is all like, and Robert Reich talks about this all the time. There is no stakeholder capitalism in America today, at least in big corporate America, which is about delivering back for your employees and delivering back for your end users.
28:28They're not thinking about that. It is all about stakeholder value. And once you lose sight of what you're actually doing this for, because like Apple was designed for what? Building products to help people improve their lives. It's really what it is. So we're going to help a small business owner be able to start their business in a garage. We're going to help a student be able to do better in school. We're going to build this technology. They don't really do that anymore. Like Apple's just a factory that just produces the same product for the last 20 years. It's like a slightly different version of the iPhone.
28:51So it - Which is why - And same with Google, because Google did the same thing. They changed the map too. Yeah. Which is why I think they need to be sent a message that - But how do you send that message? Because the message is going to be financial. Right. By electing people, these these non-corporate Democrats that talk about the problem and the exploitation of these corporations and how they want the Democrats to service them or they want the Republicans to service them. I think we need to continue from this cycle through multiple cycles to send these corporations a message that we fundamentally believe it's immoral that the CEO makes this much and the lowest person on the totem pole, the disparity in that is not sustainable.
29:37And I just think we need to send them a message that deep regulations are coming. I hope that they're coming. I do. I'm skeptical that they are. And again, that's to what I said earlier is how are Democrats going to use the power they gain in the midterms in the presidential election 2028? And that's the answer is because again, Tim Cook, I think it's just to me, it's like I'm very much a realist in this is Tim Cook's job is to care about shareholder value. So if you are President John Ossoff in 2029 with a Democratic House, the Democratic Senate, how are you using the fact that Tim Cook cares about shareholder value to get the things that you want?
30:14Because right now, Donald Trump can manipulate these people in different ways. He's manipulating them to get stupid shit, like changing the map from Lake Ontario to Lake America. We can use that same power. Like my sub stack is called Endless Urgency because I admire the way that they use their power. I hate what they use it for, but I admire it. So the question is, honestly, it's even less about the corporate Democrat versus non-corporate Democrat, because most Democrats don't take corporate PAC money anyway. What is a real problem is institutionalism and preserving of those institutions, because a lot of them don't want to make difficult, challenging decisions about the things we need to do.
30:43And there's a lot of talk of we should eliminate the filibuster, and we should make D.C. a state, and we should make Puerto Rico a state. And I support those things. I think that that's right. But that's like one step of like a 5 ,000 step plan. And like the boldness of the anti-corruption agenda we need to take on, the boldness of, I think, like leveling the playing field for the average American is real. And we need to go big. And what I worry about is, and this was why I didn't support Haley Stevens in the Michigan primary, by the way, because she had a conversation with, I may have talked to you about this last time, my friend, Mike Lux, who is a great progressive and has a sub stack.
31:16People should subscribe because he's awesome. him. He had a conversation with Haley Stevens and she was trying to get his support. And he's like, so what are you going to do when you get elected? She goes, well, I think this isn't a time for, for big change. This is a time for us to like, Oh yeah. And that was, that was to me, cause like McMorrow was out of the race. And I was like, I don't really have a dog here and I don't live in Michigan. So who cares? But I was like, I am absolutely not going to support somebody that's just like going to like do a little layup there. Like we can't like tinkering around the edges of the affordable care act.
31:40We can't just like make little changes. People aren't feeling them and they're going to get mad at us. They want us to go big. I agree. We're the, we're the party of the new deal we're the party of the great society we're the party that passed civil rights i think i mean one thing i want my candidates talking about is accountability from the people that funded fascism accountability from these corporations what does the account of what does that accountability look like are you gonna ask tim cook to to take a pay cut and pay it out to the american people like i think it's again i think the point that i'm making is just from like a realist perspective is like just figure out what the fuck they care about and let's just manipulate that because that's what trump is doing but but everything is always centering the needs of the wealthy and the needs of the patriarchy.
32:17When we look at what Zoran is doing, he is all gas, no brakes on fundamental reforms. When he put Lena Kahn in his, it sent a signal that we are not servicing you. And what's interesting about the way Zoran is governing is if you are following pretty closely, he is taking away a lot of red tape and making it Which is smart. For small business owners to get going. And I just think there's always this default setting on the Democratic side too, that we have to defer and prioritize the rich white man first. And then, okay, then we can get done here. And I think we have to have a political party more FDR oriented, more Zoran oriented, where we prioritize the worker, where we prioritize the majority instead of the, where Tim Cook and all of these other people realize, oh, they don't really care.
33:14I'm not going to be able to do anything here because they're going to, you know, they're going to regulate me. I'm going to, we're going to have to start paying a shit ton of taxes as they should. They should be paying their fair share and changing the culture of this, this tendency that, that, that happens in America all the time. And we all do it without thinking about it where it's like, Oh, let's make sure the businessmen are okay first. And it comes from the propaganda of the Republican Party that wealth trickles down. And we have to make these people at the top so happy. And I think we're seeing right now in a really, really big city, New York, we're seeing a person who is centering the worker first, crimes down, real estate sales are up.
33:59Despite the pied-de-terre tax, luxury real estate sales are up. I don't think the tax has taken effect yet, right? But. Just, I was saying, not that I'm against it. I'm not. But luxury sales are up in Manhattan. And so I just think it's really interesting that we can go bold. We're seeing it happen. We can see where he's reminding us that government is, we're not supposed to be mad at the government. They're supposed to be providing services for us. And I just push back against the instinct that we have to keep the businessmen happy and their stockholders happy. No, but I'm not saying that the Democratic Party should be trying to keep stockholders happy and keeping Tim Cook happy.
34:43I'm saying that's what Tim Cook cares about. Like, that's his job. We can acknowledge that and manipulate that the same way that Trump is. That's all that I'm saying. You can manipulate that to help workers. That's the point that I'm making. I agree with that. I'll push back a little bit on Mondani for a second. I think he's doing a great job. But I think the reason that Mondani is doing a great job is actually because he's just doing basic good governance. They're on TV going, they're on TV going, Sauron Mondani is a communist. He's, the streets are running red with blood and everything's terrible.
35:10And Mondani's on camera being like, I've made it easier for you to open an ice cream shop. Like, that's what it is. And honestly, like, I compared to my mayor, Brandon Johnson, who, frankly, I don't think is a particularly good mayor. And he's about to announce his re-election campaign. I think he's probably going to lose that re-election campaign would be my guess. and I feel like he spends so much time on like these big bold ideas that he has that he can't actually implement and I'm just like can you just fix a pothole like the the advantage that a democratic mayor any mayor has is you can actually do something that people can see and feel in a way that a president frankly can't in the same way or a member of congress certainly can't but that's fix a pothole um keep my keep my streets clean um make sure that the neighborhood pool there was a neighborhood pool down the street for me that like was not open not full forever which was terrible for the kids, my alderman got it fixed.
35:54Right. And that's, that's the kind of stuff you can do in city government. That's like harder to do at the federal level. But I think the, one of the biggest divides of the democratic party, by the way, I don't even think is about like moderate versus, versus socialist or even like the age gap stuff, which I do think is real, but it gets a little bit, uh, yesterday sort of like a bit of a narrative buster with Marky, uh, winning, um, a big against Seth Moulton, which I think was the right decision. Um, and I did a little bit of work for Marky is responsiveness to the people is like, who's actually responsive to their constituents right now.
36:22And that's what Momdani he's doing well. I was like, what are your problems right now? How can I solve them right now? He's got that down. And like, it doesn't mean he's not pursuing his bigger ideas, like the grocery store and the buses and stuff, but like, he's love, he's nailing it on like basic stuff. And when you don't have to take all those calls from rich people, you sure do have a lot more time to service. Jump in pools and hang out with the majority. Right. You know, when you're not so busy doing all these back, backroom deals and, and when you can actually govern transparently, openly, it is tangible and people feel it.
36:52And can I add one more thing too, is like one of the things I think DSA has been really smart about in their organizing strategy is doing the mutual aid through the campaigns. What Kat Abagazal is doing right now in Chicago with her organization Kapow, which came out of her house race, is really smart, both because it's one, just the right thing to do, like helping support people who need it in the neighborhood, but also because you're signaling that I care about you and people will trust you if you handle the basic core competencies of supporting individual people. Not where I live now, but before I moved in our new home, We were in the 40th ward in Chicago, and there's a great alderman named Andre Vasquez, who I think, in my opinion, is the closest thing that Chicago has to a Mamdani.
37:27I actually had lunch with him the other day. And he's DSA. He's further to the left than me on a number of different issues. But, man, if I needed my alderman to do something, he did it. Just to give you an example, I lived there during the pandemic, and I delivered masks with the guy to people that were shut-ins and couldn't get it. He was always there. And most aldermen, or at least a lot of aldermen, don't do stuff like that. And I think more politicians need to get out in their community and be responsive to their community. Then they'll trust you on the rest of that stuff. So even if you're like further to the left, like Andre's probably like a little bit more to the left in the district that he represents.
37:58People just trust him because he does the work. And they go, all right, you can go to City Hall and handle that stuff. We'll trust you. And I think that's what matters. So like Mamdani is doing that. And so people will trust Mamdani on the other stuff. Democrats need to learn that lesson. And the way we run our campaigns in the establishment wing of the party, which I would not consider myself in that wing. I just sort of have one foot in both worlds, is stop running your campaign like a startup that just like exists for a year and then you shut it down. Like be engaged in your community and build something meaningful and people will trust you.
38:21And I think that's what DSA does better than any other group in the country right now. I totally agree with that. I think that was one of the errors of Joe Biden. Once he got in, he governed and he had 50 years of experience in how to do it. But there was hardly ever any victory lapse on good things that they passed. and in fact a lot of the people on the infrastructure act uh were republicans that voted against it they were out you know taking credit for all of it yeah taking credit but okay go follow mike nellis sub stack youtube youtube youtube yep youtube podcasts instagram all the stuff mike n-e-l-l-i-s go on mike i appreciate it i appreciate your pragmatism i just want a reckoning i know you do i want the reckoning too i know i'm with you i appreciate the people are gonna get mad at me but i want the record i think it's i think it's really i think these These are healthy, good conversations.
39:10I agree. I really do. Because we want what's best for our country and best for the majority of people in our country. Yes, and we want to beat a lot of Republicans in the fall. And to stop arguing about Ahsan Piker every goddamn day. It's so ridiculous. It's so stupid. So stupid. All right. Bye.
From the publisher
Trump's popularity has reached an all time crater with no sign of stopping.
Pre-order Jennifer’s new book Not Today, Fascists today: https://linktr.ee/ivehaditpodcast
Follow Us:
I've Had It Podcast: @Ivehaditpodcast
Jennifer Welch: @mizzwelch
Mike Nellis: @mike_nellis
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
