In short
A discussion of why some former MAGA supporters leave the movement, focusing on indoctrination mechanisms and the role of Fox News; includes claims about Trump’s support and a deprogramming/“cult” framing.
Guests
Rich Logos, founder of Leaving MAGA (described as creating community/support for ex-MAGA members). Episode also references multiple Leaving MAGA focus-group participants (unnamed): a woman influenced by trad-wife culture and the “SAVE Act”/women’s voting rights; a woman who felt helped by MAGA and was told “if you’re MAGA, you’re rich”; a man seeking closeness with a conservative father via Fox News; and others who believed the election was stolen and later changed after switching news sources. Key claims/examples: Fox News “radicalized” viewers; diversifying news (e.g., PBS documentary on Jan. 6) changed beliefs; “patriots” framing of Jan. 6 riots; Fox as fearmongering about Haitians/pets and LGBTQ “recruitment”; a cited 2020 study where paid Fox viewers watching CNN became less likely to believe false claims, then reverted when payment stopped.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODissecting MAGA Defectors
0:04 to 0:43
Explore former MAGA supporters and their reasons for leaving the movement.
“Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies.”
Dissecting MAGA Defectors
1:25 to 2:15
Explore former MAGA supporters and their reasons for leaving the movement.
“Okay, there's obviously a lot of fissures within the MAGA cult, but I believe the data that shows that Trump has, sadly, a really, really high approval rating among Republicans.”
Indoctrination and Personal Stories
2:21 to 5:27
Hear personal stories from former supporters about their indoctrination and experiences.
“Members of Leaving MAGA shared with MS Now how they became indoctrinated.”
Impact of Fox News on MAGA Supporters
6:09 to 7:58
Understand how Fox News has influenced MAGA supporters and their beliefs.
“Moving along, here's another video from the same focus group.”
Research on Media Consumption and Beliefs
9:21 to 10:54
Learn about research linking media consumption with belief changes among Fox News viewers.
“Fox News viewers were paid to watch CNN and it actually changed their views.”
Looking Ahead for MAGA Supporters
10:56 to 11:31
Discuss the future of MAGA supporters and the importance of deprogramming.
“I thought that That was some fascinating stuff.”
Transcript
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1:25Angie Sullivan:Okay, there's obviously a lot of fissures within the MAGA cult, but I believe the data that shows that Trump has, sadly, a really, really high approval rating among Republicans. However, you're not able to incite an insurrection, wreck the economy, start a war, enrich yourself, and do all of this shit without some members of the cult breaking off. And MSNOW had a fascinating focus group that I want us to dissect together. Pop this up. Former MAGA supporters are speaking out about what made them leave the movement. And it's a fascinating watch. The organization is called Leaving MAGA, was founded by Rich Logos to help other former MAGA supporters navigate life after the movement, offering community and support for people breaking away and helping repair relationships with the family and friends they alienated.
2:21Angie Sullivan:Members of Leaving MAGA shared with MS Now how they became indoctrinated. You guys, fasten your seatbelts. This is fascinating. Let's play the first clip. Would be responsible for helping me get to prom or making sure I had, you know, new shoes for school and they were all MAGA. And it was very much this constant conversation of if you want to have nice things, be a Republican. I really wanted acceptance with my father, and my father was very much into Fox News, so that was something that we would connect on. I became heavily indoctrinated into trad wife culture. We were all absolutely fine with household voting.
2:58So just to clarify, for people who don't know, household voting means a woman does not vote. So the SAVE Act, in essence, is to take that right away from women.
3:10Angie Sullivan:Okay, so let's dissect each of their reasons for falling prey to MAGA. The first one, the first gal said she was poor and the people that helped her were MAGA. And part of the stipulation in helping her was saying, if you are MAGA, then you're rich. So materialism. And I think this is a big, big part of a symptom of unregulated capitalism. You have a society where people are so materialistic and the Republicans for decades have propagandized incredibly successfully that we are great ambassadors of the economy. We're great businessmen. We understand how to trim the fat. All of the information and the data is cooked on this.
3:55Angie Sullivan:The Democrats are a million times better with the economy, with the deficit, than Republicans could ever dream of being. The Republicans are just better messengers. They're better with propaganda. it. And they have a base that is primed to not critically think. The next person, he said he wanted to be close to his dad. And this is something I've long suspected with a lot of these MAGA men, that they have mommy and daddy issues, which a lot of us have in our child issues. It's kind of a part of the human experience. I mean, whatever problems you have as an adult, they probably originated from your childhood.
4:31Angie Sullivan:And so that one was really kind of heartbreaking. He wanted to bond with his dad and his dad's probably this grumpy old conservative racist. And if he could watch Fox News with him and bash minorities, then they could bond. And that's a huge part of cults. They build a community together. And then another lady there, she got roped into trad wife culture. And here's my thing about the trad wives. Being a stay-at-home mom was not for me. That was never for me. I am always better when I am doing different things. I have a, you know, being a mother, it's incredibly important to me, but I also needed time for myself.
5:07Angie Sullivan:But I don't want to knock women who do that. But I do want to encourage the trad wives. If you don't want to vote, don't vote. Don't do it. Nobody's making you do it. If you want your husband to go vote for you, go do it. But don't take that right away from other people. And that's the problem with conservatives. They have this miserable lifestyle that they want to project onto everybody else. And they claim, oh, my God, the gays are indoctrinating us. There is no agenda anywhere. that gay people recruit other people to be gay. However, there is an incredible body of evidence that right-wing Christians do nothing but recruit people to take on their same miserable lifestyle.
5:47Angie Sullivan:I myself, an atheist that grew up in the Bible Belt, have been recruited to live the same miserable lifestyle that so many of my evangelical friends lived. And I wasn't interested in it, But I've never, despite being an interior designer for years, hanging out with more gay people than you can imagine, I've never been recruited by the LGBTQ plus movement. Moving along, here's another video from the same focus group. I heard Trump claim that the election had been stolen. Were any of you like, yeah, they stole this election. Trump won. Yeah. Yeah. I did believe that the election was stolen. I believe that the riots were actually those were patriots.
6:28until I actually switched off Fox News and started getting my news from other places, my information. That's when it finally hit. Diversifying their news turned out to be a common factor in leaving MAGA. I met my now husband in 2021 and they made me watch a documentary on January 6th. And I didn't even know what happened on January 6th prior to the PBS documentary. And I looked at him and I said, Scott, did that really happen? And he was like, where have you been?
6:59Angie Sullivan:So this to me is something I've always suspected. Fox News took conservative Republicans and radicalized them so much more. Fox News has made people a million times worse human beings. And I think as a default setting, if you are attracted to a political party that prioritizes money over human beings, there's some breakage there. But listen, we're all broken in different ways. But then you start getting a diet of Fox News, which serves up racism, patriarchal issues, misogyny, and white grievances, most importantly. And then fear mongering. They scare a white person who has a default setting of being aggrieved, that these Haitians are eating your pets, which is a lie.
7:46Angie Sullivan:These gays are recruiting your kids, which is a lie. It's always the crazy right wing Christians that are recruiting your kids and on and on. Fox News, when all of the history books are written on this, will be one of the biggest culprits because it's like putting a frog in boiling water. And I know from my time that I lived in Oklahoma City, a lot of my friends when George W. Bush was president, they were conservative, but they weren't pricks. keep the Fox News going, keep the Fox News going, keep Donald Trump with a permission structure to be more unhinged, a permission structure to be more untethered and be more outwardly racist, to be more disrespectful.
8:30Angie Sullivan:I can hardly stomach being around any of these people. It's disqualifying for me. It's such a moral rod that it's difficult for me to be and spend time with people that actively chose to triple trump saw all the stuff that he does all the sexual assault allegations all the stealing all of the january 6 and go on and on and on all of the stuff he does i i have a difficult time when i have free time to thinking oh yeah i'm going to spend time with a triple trumper um so i think that the uh fox news factor in this is is still ongoing and it's one of the worst thing that's happened to this country.
9:13Angie Sullivan:All right. And there's research that bears out these focus group members that used to be in the cult that are now deprogrammed. There's research that bears out their claim that Fox News kept them in a totally propagandized, indoctrinated state. Let's pop this up. Fox News viewers were paid to watch CNN and it actually changed their views. A study conducted in the fall of 2020 paid regular Fox News viewers$15 an hour to watch CNN for around seven hours a week for a month. They became less likely to believe false claims about Biden supporters and the protests and started to recognize Fox was hiding negative stories about Trump.
9:59Angie Sullivan:And what's interesting about this study, I've read into it a lot. After the study, a lot of them like kind of had this aha moment like, oh yeah, the election wasn't rigged and all of these certain things that they saw the light on. But then once they weren't paid anymore, they went back to Fox like a junkie. It's like an addiction. It's like, I always say that the conservatives that I've known, particularly evangelical Christians, when you put that in there, there is an appetite for recreational cruelty. There's an appetite that these people like about punching down and Fox News delivers that.
10:35Angie Sullivan:It's kind of, I liken it to people in ancient Rome going to the Colosseum to watch people get humiliated or killed by bears and all of these different things. That's what Fox News is. The modern day, just shaming and recreational cruelty that the Romans used to watch. But God, is it awful. All right. I thought that That was some fascinating stuff. Now I want to advise, the numbers are still very solid within the Republican Party that Trump has soaring, soaring support. However, I think this focus group is important because at some point, a lot of people, tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, hopefully, are going to see that they were in a cult and they're going to need to be indoctrinated by this.
11:19Angie Sullivan:So kudos to Rich Logos who started this leaving MAGA because I think that these people are going to be a world of hurt when they realize, if they're capable of it, of realizing what they participated in. All right, that's all I have. Please pre-order my book. It helps me a lot. It's called Not Today Fascist. It comes out in October, but the pre-order helps a lot. And make sure you like and subscribe to our channel.
12:08We'll be right back. ProgressiveCommercial.com, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates.
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