Trump Terrified As Ghislaine Maxwell May Flip On Him Under Oath

22 Jul 2025 · 14 min · 11 chapters

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In short

House Oversight Committee moves to subpoena Ghislaine Maxwell for deposition; DOJ/Trump administration actions around sealed Epstein/Maxwell records; debate over whether Maxwell will flip under oath and whether a pardon is likely.

Guests

Katie Phang, legal commentator and former federal prosecutor (legal expertise discussed throughout).

Key claims

Tim Burchett’s motion passed by voice vote over Mike Johnson’s attempt to end the session early. Todd Blanche plans to meet Maxwell in prison; host argues Maxwell has strong incentives to lie to secure a pardon Trump previously discussed. Host criticizes DOJ transparency efforts, alleging video surveillance was misrepresented (missing/spliced time) and that courts’ sealing of grand jury records is being blamed on judges. Mentions Maxwell’s pending Supreme Court appeal and DOJ opposition.

Notable examples

Maria Farmer (first victim) describing Epstein’s claim about inheriting Trump/Ghislaine via divorce; references to Virginia Giuffre; flight logs/messages; Epstein described as having “more than a thousand victims.”

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

Subpoena Motion for Maxwell

0:12 to 0:40

Discussion about the motion to subpoena Ghislaine Maxwell and implications.

“And this is against Mike Johnson because he was trying to close down the session early, right?”

Todd Blanche and Maxwell's Importance

0:40 to 1:06

Analysis of Todd Blanche's meeting with Maxwell and her rising significance.

“Yeah, so Mike Johnson said he was going to try to shut things down, but now he's saying, no, people are going to stay because we have some small things that we can get across that are non-controversial.”

Potential Pardon and Testimony

1:06 to 1:48

Speculation on what Maxwell might reveal and the possibility of a pardon.

“we're seeing on the screen right now from Todd Blanche.”

Transparency vs. Incompetence

1:48 to 2:52

Critique of the Trump administration's handling of the Epstein case and transparency.

“Minimize his involvement so that I can get my pardon and go live my life.”

Ghislaine's Truthfulness and Political Ramifications

2:52 to 4:08

Discussion on the credibility of Maxwell's potential testimony and its impact on politics.

“But it's like, don't you think that people are going to sit there and say, wait, wait, wait, if she says X, Y, and Z, it's got to be tested against something.”

Steve Scalise's Statements

4:08 to 5:30

Examination of Steve Scalise's comments regarding the Epstein documents.

“And there's a breadth and universe of evidence that's out there that could be released to the American public and you don't have to go to Ghislaine Maxwell of all freaking people to get the truth.”

Victims and Their Stories

5:30 to 6:36

Highlighting the stories of Epstein's victims and the focus on their trauma.

“which we all know, and that's going to be it.”

Maxwell's Testimony and Legal Concerns

6:36 to 8:13

Concerns about Maxwell's safety and the implications of her testimony.

“It is mind boggling the perversion of the judicial system that is occurring here.”

Government's Role and Involvement

8:13 to 9:42

Discussion on the government's past involvement and mishandling of the Epstein case.

“It was not in the state government, but the feds, right?”

Ghislaine Maxwell's Legal Position

9:42 to 11:28

Analysis of Maxwell's legal situation and the involvement of her lawyers.

“But the metadata being wiped for almost three minutes under the Jeffrey Epstein tape in prison when he died.”
Show all 11 chapters

Comey's Daughter and SDNY

11:28 to 13:14

Discussion about the firing of Comey's daughter from the SDNY and its implications.

“All the people in Maga land that are melting down understandably about this because of a claim of transparency and realizing that's just a crock of shit from this administration.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:04We just received breaking news from the House floor and to break that news for us is none other than Katie Phang. Welcome, Katie. Okay, tell us, this is exciting. Yeah, so breaking news. So as we know, Tim Burchett, who kind of always is living in a gray kind of space, he actually got a voice vote to approve his motion to subpoena Ghislaine Maxwell to appear for a deposition in front of the House Oversight Committee. And this is against Mike Johnson because he was trying to close down the session early, right? Yeah, so Mike Johnson said he was going to try to shut things down, but now he's saying, no, people are going to stay because we have some small things that we can get across that are non-controversial.

0:48But look, this dovetails with the other news, which is Todd Blanche is planning on meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell in prison over the next few weeks. I mean, suddenly Ghislaine Maxwell, and you and I talked about this last week, Ghislaine Maxwell is suddenly ratcheting up the totem pole in terms of importance. But look at this insanity that we're seeing on the screen right now from Todd Blanche. This idea that the Department of Justice is some type of, you know, let me come in white knight on the white horse kind of energy that we're going to sit here and we're going to save America from what exactly we're going to go interview Ghislaine Maxwell and she's going to tell us all, please, you and I know she ain't going to say anything unless she gets something like a pardon.

1:30Absolutely. And we know that Trump's already talked about it before he was sworn in about giving her a pardon. My thoughts are twofold on this. Number one, if I'm Ghislaine Maxwell and I'm going to get a pardon, I'm going to say, oh my gosh, Trump, they weren't even good friends. I don't know anything about it. Minimize his involvement so that I can get my pardon and go live my life. And two, for Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche to talk about transparency and hard doing hard things. Like you all fucked this up. Like I'm more surprised. I'm not surprised about the coverup. I'm surprised about the incompetence of the coverup because if I was unethical and amoral and worked for Trump, I would have gone completely differently.

2:19I would have produced all these documents. I would have left his name off. These people are profoundly incompetent. But what do you think about Ghislaine Maxwell in terms of her testimony? I think it's hysterical that it's a Republican. I mean, Ro Kanna, to his credit, you know, has been pushing for this as well. But like, I think it's hysterical that it's a Republican who's now pushing for this woman to give sworn testimony. I think the problem with Ghislaine Maxwell is where's the litmus test for her truth, though? Against what are you going to compare the truth of what she offers? When you do a pardon, you don't necessarily need to get something in return.

2:51I mean, it's a presidential power that can be exercised indiscriminately by him. But it's like, don't you think that people are going to sit there and say, wait, wait, wait, if she says X, Y, and Z, it's got to be tested against something. There's got to be something that's going to be the quality control that can be applied against what she has to say. But what's kind of crazy here, too, is Steve Scalise said this today. He's like, look, he says, Republican leaders and others are now trying to, quote, expedite the administration's release of information over the August recess. He blames Democrats for covering up for Epstein for years, but now President Trump is in court trying to unseal the documents.

3:27And for whatever reason, the courts have sealed a lot of those records. This guy is dumb as a fucking box of rocks. It's grand jury records. These are victims of horrific crimes. And I mean, on my YouTube channel yesterday, I walked through the filings themselves and the government represents in its own filings that Jeffrey Epstein was the most prolific pedophile in American history with more than a thousand victims. So for Scalise to say, well, it must be the court's fault. It fits into this idea that it is a giant head fake by Donald Trump, where he's going to now blame the federal judges when they refuse to unseal grand jury transcripts.

4:04When you and I both know that the grand jury transcripts are not going to have anything substantive. And there's a breadth and universe of evidence that's out there that could be released to the American public and you don't have to go to Ghislaine Maxwell of all freaking people to get the truth. Well, and the records that are sealed, what we know about, he's on the flight logs, he's on the, you know, voice or like the messages left. And then Kylie, play this what Maria Farmer said, because I love this, who was the first victim. She went to the FBI twice about Trump. And here's what she had to say, which I found this fascinating.

4:39How close were they as far as you were able to tell? Well, like Epstein said, he inherited him in the divorce. You know, he said, basically, you're going to see us together all the time. We're fixtures because in the divorce, I inherited Trump and Ghislaine inherited Ivana. So he said, you're not going to see him at the house the way you see Ivana and you're not going to see her at the offices the way you see Trump. So do we have any expectation that Ghislaine Maxwell is not going to put her best interests first and say what Trump wants her to say so that she can get a pardon? I mean, like there's zero credibility here.

5:20Like you said, how do you, so she testifies, then do you have all these people come in and testify that she's lying? No, because what they're going to do is they're going to say, well, Bill Clinton was on the flight, which we all know, and that's going to be it. They're going to throw out some Democrat, Democratic names. And then that's, I mean, you know, MAGA is just going to chomp down. there's these victims are who I feel sorry for really. And I'm so glad that you showed Maria. We have to mention like Virginia Joffrey, like who's not with us anymore. I mean, tragically, you know, took her own life because of all of this trauma.

5:53I mean, the victims are the people that we need to be focusing on. And that's the reason why this idea that there is some campaign for transparency here is so insulting to the American people. It's like, not only is it the victims that are getting retraumatized right now. But to your point, if I'm a victim of Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell and others that I want to emphasize, like, and Ghislaine Maxwell sits there and she just downplays Donald Trump's involvement and she decides to maybe emphasize some Democrats' involvement, are you now expecting victims to have to come forward and say, I'm sorry that's not true, or I'm sorry that she's lying?

6:28I mean, are we now going to have an entire mini trial play out in public furthermore it's like galene maxwell has every freaking incentive to want to lie right now she's currently pending the attempts to have her appeal heard by the united state supreme court and here's the crazy ish the department of justice is already on record opposing the relief that she's seeking from the supreme court of the united states but now the deputy attorney general todd blanche is going to go rolling into the federal prison where galene Maxwell is located to go speak to her. It is mind boggling the perversion of the judicial system that is occurring here.

7:03Perversion in every sense of the word. But you know what I want to talk about too? Don't you notice it's Todd Blanch and not Pam Bondi who's doing this. Pam Bondi is not doing this. Why is Todd Blanch? Because Bondi is on the freaking out on this one. Hands up. Well, you know, he hasn't thrown her under the bus the way he's thrown other people in his orbit under the bus. But she also, as you correctly pointed out to me, which I had forgotten, that Pam Bondi was the attorney general of Florida when that whole sweetheart deal with the immunity thing where he got nights in the prison or the county jail or whatever.

7:41So Pam Bondi is in this up to her eyeballs. Yeah, she's had her fingerprints all over this. There was another guy named Alex Acosta, who was the labor secretary, who was the interview as attorney of the Southern District of Florida during that sweetheart deal that, um, because remember for Epstein, it was originally supposed to be a federal prosecution that ended up going, going state. And he got this sweetheart deal where he did like time on the weekends where he would then be able to go to this office, some like high rise office during the day. And he was accompanied by deputies. It was wild, but all of this got sanctioned by the government at that time.

8:13It was not in the state government, but the feds, right? And so everybody was involved in this. And I don't know if they thought that Epstein was just going to keep his mouth shut. But you and I both know a predator is a predator is a predator. That is a Donald Trump brand as well. Predators do nothing but be predators. And Epstein, even though we got that sweetheart deal, did not learn a lesson and turned out to go out and violate again, right? And so there's a reason why a lot of people just wanted it. A, swept under the rug. B, they wanted him silenced. And C, now you really think Ghislaine Maxwell, if she could go rogue, and she could tell the truth and implicate everybody?

8:50You really think that Trump wants that to come out? I'm sorry, but using Blanche and others as a filter for what this woman has to say is a disaster. I will say this in full disclosure. Ghislaine Maxwell's lawyer is a good friend of mine. Her criminal defense lawyer, one of them is a good friend of mine. And I do not believe that he would allow his client to be put in a position where she's either going to be doing doing something that's going to render her legally in some unsafe, untenable position or physically in some unsafe, untenable position. I don't think that he would ever do that. But he's not her, right?

9:27And he can't control her just like Trump can't control her nor can Blanche or Bondi. What do you think the odds that her physical safety is currently under threat? I mean, I'm assuming they have extra guards on her. But, you know, when the Jeffrey Epstein and here's the deal, I don't extraordinary claims, conspiracy theories. I have to have all the evidence. But the metadata being wiped for almost three minutes under the Jeffrey Epstein tape in prison when he died. That gives me pause and it gives me pause for her because shutting her up would be a great deal for the Trump administration. Now, I'm not accusing anybody because I certainly am not saying they did that.

10:11But I would think that she feels a physical safety threat right now. I'm sure she has. And remember, Epstein died before she got indicted. That's right. He died before she got indicted. And so all of this kind of the chronology is important to kind of go back to the beginning and kind of see what's happening here. I will say that the memo, the DOJ memo, which I have here, what's insulting in that memo is it took cyber sleuths to figure out that there was that missing stuff because if you were to just take the doj at its word which is insane that you and i are sitting here saying that you can't right it says here that the fbi enhanced the relevant footage by increasing its contrast balancing the color and improving its sharpness for greater clarity and viewability that's fine but then bondi has a nerve to say quote the full raw and enhanced videos are available at the following links she never discloses that they are spliced together she never discloses the missing time she never discloses the missing you know data and she just wants to snow people into thinking that the entirety of the video surveillance is there putting aside whether it even has the relevant areas of the prison holding area but still it's like it took people to have to actually fat check her to show that she was misrepresenting to the american people and that's the most kind of egregious betrayal of public trust, which is why in some weird way we've talked about politics making strange bedfellows.

11:40All the people in Maga land that are melting down understandably about this because of a claim of transparency and realizing that's just a crock of shit from this administration. You know what? More power to you. Go on. Keep on trying to dig at this because you know what? The more that people dig, the more the truth comes out. Yeah, that's right. And what did they say? Secrets can't be kept in the dark or something. What do you think about Comey's daughter that was fired from the SDNY? First of all, I was surprised they still had Comey's daughter in the SDNY, but she is intimately familiar with the Ghislaine Maxwell case and the testimony and the evidence.

12:13So now they fired her. Is she someone that could be a stopgap or would that be impossible? Like, is there an NDA, attorney client privilege, something like that? If she were to come forward and say, that's the biggest but it's a horseshit. Well, she's found as well by the secrecy that's with the grand jury, and she also cannot disclose, you know, the identities of victims, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, the reality is there's a lot of information that we never would have seen publicly if those cases had gone to trial for Epstein and Maxwell even then, her trials, like a lot of that's not out there because a lot of it wasn't relevant, right?

12:50It's kind of like the same thing that happened with this P. diddy trial like there was thousands or hundreds of hours of tape about which a lot of it wasn't seen but comey cannot just go out and just start running her mouth i mean she was a federal prosecutor but isn't it amazing how like when there's smoke there's fire you're gonna get rid of her now like it's like it's absurd to think that in the whole uproar and the fur of what's going on like you're gonna boot her from her job now you've known she's on the roster he's been in office since January. She's been working there for years. She's been one of the best federal prosecutors at the Southern District of New York, but they're like, yeah, now we're just going to fire you summarily without any notice.

13:27That's what they do. They hate competence because they are all so profoundly incompetent. Katie, thank you so much for lending your legal expertise and being on today. Please like this video, subscribe to our channel, and check out Katie Fang's YouTube channel and I'm assuming you're on all the platforms. I am. Thank you for that. Thank you.

From the publisher

​ @katiephangnews  joins us with breaking news as more people call for Ghislaine Maxwell to testify in front of congress.


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