100M+ Downloads & a Netflix Deal at 26.. Why Money Makes Friendships Weird — Jemma Sbeg

11:34Doone Roisin:And I think when you can do anything like what you did with your mom or what I've done with my grandpa, it's like just so nice to involve these people in your world currently in this like new way and like have a moment or a story or a documented thing with them. That's so cool. Yours thing is cool. I kind of want to do that now. You should. Yeah, I think I should.

11:54Jemma Sbeg:Especially as they get older. Yeah. It's important to have that.

11:57Doone Roisin:Yeah. So... I've never been to therapy. Does that freak you out?

12:03Jemma Sbeg:No, I don't think it freaks me out. It's helpful, but I feel like some people just don't feel the need for it in the same way.

12:11Doone Roisin:Do you go to therapy?

12:12Jemma Sbeg:I do go to therapy. Actually, not right now. I need to get back into therapy.

12:17Doone Roisin:I know there's the concept of therapy where you just have a therapist forever. It feels like more of the American-style therapy where it's like, I just have my therapist and we go and talk about whatever's happening in my life at all times. And then there's the other kind of therapy that's like, let's solve one core problem and give you the tools that you need to like move past that one core problem. When you think about therapy, like for yourself, because I think there's like the my thinking is going to that place where it's like the psych goes to see what kind of psych, you know? So for you, what angle are you going into?

12:50Jemma Sbeg:um i think i can intellectualize a lot of my problems myself but i go for the things that you like can't intellectualize and i just go for somebody what's an example so like um grief would be one right you know like you can't intellectualize grief you can kind of intellectualize a heartbreak you can kind of intellectualize losing your job the other thing i feel like i can't really intellectualize like moments where i just feel really crap or i'm really having like periods of like really intense anxiety. So what do you mean when you can't

13:23Doone Roisin:intellectualize something like that? Like to ask the dumb question, but like, what does it mean to be like, okay, I'm going to go and intellectualize grief?

13:33Jemma Sbeg:Well, I think like intellectualizing is basically being like, I can give an academic explanation for this and I can tell you why I feel this way. And I can tell you probably when it will end. And I can tell you probably will never end. And I can tell you this and this and this, and I can give you the exact, you know, neurochemical baseline to why I feel the way I do, but that doesn't help me. You know, I actually just need to feel the feeling and move through it.

13:58Doone Roisin:And that's why I go to therapy. So it's like, how do you actually process the thing that is on your mind, like on a loop kind of thing?

14:07Jemma Sbeg:I think some people are very self-aware. I feel like you're probably one of these people who's very self-aware. And for me, that always actually stopped me from going to therapy because I was like what are you going to tell me that I don't already know especially as somebody who worked like worked in the psych and mental health space and then now obviously has a psychology podcast I was like I read so many papers I have so many amazing guests who are much smarter than me come on the podcast and they tell me everything and definitely in recent years I've been like yeah but no like there are things that can't be can't be explained away like you just need to know how to feel it properly so that's what I've been endeavoring to do yeah I

14:46Doone Roisin:because when you say that I'm still like I just don't even understand like I don't even know what that means to like just feel something like do you know what I mean because I'm like and I think the problem for me when I think about psychology is like or like going to see a therapist is everyone thinks that because I have a podcast I'm great at like chit chat and chatting and I've built a career around talking I'm good at communicating but actually I'm really bad at communicating and it's probably why I have a podcast is that I'm able to talk to other people about what they're up to and like deflect from myself and I'm not great about articulating my inner thoughts and I have two thoughts going at once at all times so for example if I was like doing a keynote presentation or something on stage I will have the things that I'm saying out loud and it's like one track in my brain but then I also have the inner dialogue that's a second track going that I'm having to like either quiet down keep down and like not let it bubble up to like kind of go to that thinking.

15:42Doone Roisin:And I kind of have that thought around, if you went to see a psychologist, it's like making sure that I say things the way that I would want them to be articulated and getting my internal dialogue clear before I word vomit, because I'd probably then loop think and regret things that I said. To your psychologist? Yeah, I would for sure. Really? I'd be like, you're going to judge me.

16:04Jemma Sbeg:Honestly, they won't. Can I be real? I have friends who are psychologists and they do not judge you because they hear so many stories and I mean like terrible things and the worst things that ever happened to people and people's most intense character flaws and obviously they'll have their own opinion but if they really didn't like you they just wouldn't they wouldn't treat you yeah I don't even know if it's about liking

16:30Doone Roisin:though it's more like judging judging you judging like even if you're just not clear on your thoughts or like you're more scrambled. Like I just have so many millions of thoughts in a million directions that I'm like, how would I be clear? But they, yeah, I don't know.

16:44Jemma Sbeg:But that's their job to be like, let's get, give me your 20 million thoughts and we'll figure out which one is actually the problem. Because actually I feel like half the time you have 20 million thoughts because there's one at the center that your brain's trying to protect you from, from thinking about. Right. And they'll be like, this is really what's wrong.

17:00Doone Roisin:So for you, when you think about, you know, you have the podcast and you also go and see a psych and you are an expert in that space, how do you think about your own brain and kind of like your own thoughts when you're observing self?

17:15Jemma Sbeg:Yeah.

17:15Doone Roisin:And also trying to be, I guess, not judgmental of self. I'm so bad at it.

17:21Jemma Sbeg:I'll be so real. I'm so mean to myself. I actually realized that recently. I was like, oh, you need to chill out. Like I can be really, I definitely had a moment like a couple of weeks ago where I was like, am I doing enough? And I had to just be like yeah get a grip like genuinely get a grip like what more would you have time to do right now like probably not anything um I think for me like this is my big thing for the next couple years is learning how to feel a feeling appreciate a feeling and then let it sit rather than trying to fix it rather than trying to like slap a band-aid on it or like work my way through it in that I realized like recently that I just use hard work sometimes as a as a distraction and so it'd be very easy to be like I don't have any nothing's wrong with my life and it's like well probably is some things but like I don't let myself think about it so that's what I've been trying to do is actually think about the things that are going right more just so I'm more conscious of them and then can have more grace for myself do you know what I mean so like do you have an example it doesn't have to be like a deeply personal one but no I can give an example like thinking about that example of like oh my god i should be doing more i'm not doing enough um i'm young i've got all these opportunities like this is not gonna last forever go go go go go and then having the the grace to be like okay wait but you're really dealing with this and you know you've just moved to a new country and you're not particularly happy there and your partner's also you know he he's got a job now but like for a period was you know looking for a job really for not that long like but I was like you know I'm trying to support him at the same time like think about those things more and don't think about them as because I used to think that if I thought about those things it was like making excuses and now I'm like no think about them because it provides context to your own life that often you can just you try and ignore to be more productive.

19:18Doone Roisin:And do you then like apply a toolkit to the thought or like what do you do with just sitting there and thinking about it?

19:26Jemma Sbeg:Oh I'll just write it down I will do something creative I'll talk about it I also found that mainly I will just write it down and just be like let's just have this I have a long running notes thing in my phone that's like any thought that I have that really gets stuck that I know isn't real like that I know is not the truth it's just a fear thought I have a long-running notes app list of all of those thoughts to put them in there and then I to kind of just to keep track of like or when I think things are going to go wrong I actually also have a list of things that I thought were going to go wrong that never did as a good reminder to come back to when I'm having a lot of anxiety about you know because I think it's like there's

20:05Doone Roisin:something it's scientifically proven that if you journal and you write things down your brain processes it differently or something I'm also someone who cannot journal I'm like oh what do I even write and how embarrassing I'm probably writing something so lame. I've asked people before, like, hey, when you're journaling, like, what do you actually say on the page? Like, what are the words? Are you trying to be eloquent? Are you trying to like, just put down anything? And I was talking to this guy recently who works at the coffee shop. And he was I was asking him about how he journals, because I've never been able to journal.

20:38Doone Roisin:And he was like, oh, I just literally write the thoughts. Like, if he thinks like, this is lame, I don't know what I'm writing, I don't know what to say. He will write down, this is lame. I'm not very good at writing. I don't know what to say. And I was like, oh, that, because I think for me with my like classic ADHD brain is very much like, I need to know the specific thing that's like - How to do this right? Yeah. Like what is the step and like, what's the practical example someone can point to? And then I understand. Whereas if it's conceptual, I'm like, but what are you actually saying? Like, what are the words on the paper?

21:08Doone Roisin:That's so interesting.

21:09Jemma Sbeg:You should try voice noting instead. That's what I did for a while where I'd be where I would make vlogs of myself where I put my phone out not for anybody else just be like this is just what I'm feeling today blah blah blah blah blah I'm really like struggling with this and you know it really annoys me and I just talk to myself out loud and that was my way of getting it out because that what I found that that works for some people who I just can't journal and so do you then just feel more relief so much more relieved and the other thing that it does is that you know in five months six months five years you can go back and look at it and be like wow I have context now for the fact that feelings are temporary and therefore the feeling I'm feeling now is temporary because if I don't feel like this anymore, what I'm going through right now probably won't feel like this either in five years.

21:50Jemma Sbeg:Does that make sense?

21:52Doone Roisin:Yes. Yes. That's so interesting. When you think about like, you know, kind of taking that, but then zooming back out a bit further and thinking about when you speak to young women who are in their 20s and they're trying to figure out their life, who they want to be, what they're into, where they want to go, all that kind of thing. What are the most common kind of challenges that young women in today's world are suffering from when it comes to their thoughts and their brain and their emotions?

22:23Jemma Sbeg:Definitely the sense of like, what is my purpose? What is my dream job? How come I haven't found it yet and how come everybody else is somehow further ahead than me i feel like especially in our 20s it's like there is a sense of like is there um is there a race that i'm in that i don't know about like is is everybody else further ahead in the race like i really just don't know and that's like what i hear from so many people in their 20s even when they have the dream job even when they have everything going for them they're still like am i still behind like what more could i be doing because now we're in this age and I feel like this has been said to death but like it actually is not natural or normal to have this much visibility over everybody else's lives yeah because you could always find somebody who's doing better than you right and previously it was like you didn't you could you can literally judge yourself against every single person who has any kind of social media presence any kind of and that's like unhealthy and I always think of like comparison as a circle everybody thinks of it as a ladder where there's like I'm comparing myself to this person who's obviously better than me in this and that person's better than them and that person's better than them and there's somebody at the very top who's better than all of us but it's actually like a circle where it's like you're comparing yourself to sally sally's comparing herself to jason jason's comparing herself to amy who's comparing herself to you like everybody is a little bit is always going to be further ahead in certain things and so the person that you're judging yourself compared to it's probably judging themselves compared to somebody who's doing it with you.

23:56Jemma Sbeg:And I always think about that anytime I get into a comparison spiral.

24:00Doone Roisin:Yeah. It's really interesting when I think about when I was in my twenties, I was definitely more insecure. I struggled more with feeling content. I definitely was like, I want more, I want more, I want more, but I haven't found what I even want yet. I'm still trying to figure it out. But I also felt like it was a time of anything is possible. And I still feel that now but also you know in your 20s you're really like it's the beginning I've just entered like adulthood and like things are kind of like very anything is possible whereas in my 30s I feel more like you know much more secure in who I am myself like who I am as a person my own values really excited and happy about where I am professionally but then at the same time I'm like well, fuck, I'm nearly 40.

24:51Doone Roisin:That's midlife. You're nearly 40? Yeah. I'm about to turn 37. You're not nearly 40. You're 36. Also, you look like you're in your 20s. Well, I'm 36, about to turn 37. And I forgot this. I was at the dentist the other day, side tangent. I was at the dentist the other day and I looked on, I thought I was 35. I look on the screen and it had my age, 36 and five months or something. And I was like, oh my God, I didn't realized I was 30. I just forgot. I thought I was like back in the. That's actually so funny. It's devastating, but.

25:21Jemma Sbeg:But are your 30s fun so far?

25:24Doone Roisin:Are you having more fun in your 30s or did

25:25Jemma Sbeg:you have more fun in your 20s?

25:26Doone Roisin:In my 30s. Really? Yeah. I mean, I had more wild fun in my 20s for sure. But my 30s has been so much more like, I would say, peaceful, grounded and more exciting in terms of like achieving the dreams that I have because you've like figured out who your kind of sense of self is and like what direction you're kind of going into and I don't know I feel like you're able to like assess what you have wanted out of life and your goals and your milestones like become clearer versus in my 20s I felt a bit more chaotic but then I also to go back to kind of like you know women in their 20s right now and what they're struggling with I'm like how do people now navigate social media and AI and even like if we think back to even teenagers you know Australia has the social media ban for teen like children yeah I forget about it too because I obviously don't have teens around many teenagers but um I'm like so for women who are in their 20s and still trying to figure out and suffering from the comparison and you know what you see online and just this craziness that you that is so intrusive to your psyche really how do you see that like I guess like how do you deal with that how how do women who are struggling with that even in their 30s or their 40s or whatever who cares about the age how do you deal with that great question like honestly so great that I don't even know if I have an answer because

26:58Jemma Sbeg:it's like I think any way that you can but also just by genuinely doing spending a day spending a couple hours thinking about just one off, maybe a one off every now and again, thinking about like, what do I actually want? And what actually makes a good life for me? Not what I think would make a good life, not what everybody else thinks would make a good life, not what everybody else is doing to have a good life. Like genuinely, what are like the three things that I would like to describe my life as? Like if you are a creative person, like stop trying to chase the corporate life that is somebody else's dream.

27:37Jemma Sbeg:If you are somebody who genuinely just wants like a nice house in the country, stop trying to hustle like somebody who needs, you know, to make a million dollars or however much money before they turn 30. Genuinely know like what do you want? Even if it's allowed to change, but like right now, like what do you want? And then also, oh, I don't have an answer for the AI thing. Upskill yourself in terms of social and soft skills. Like, yeah, genuinely get really good at having conversations work on being an interesting person work on you know knowing yourself and your personality I think that's honestly the best thing you can do in this age because with AI like AI can take so much but it can't take your personality away and it can't take like what the imperfections of being human that are like really appealing so yeah that would be

28:24Doone Roisin:my advice it's interesting because when you're talking about you know like the self-audit of what you actually what are the things that make you happy it's so important to actually be like what are the things that make me happy like if I switch off all this crazy stuff that's changing in the world and all this kind of like social media and this like screen addiction and this doom scrolling what are the things I actually get joy from what are the things that make my day-to-day life better not the like holidays that you have once a year or these kind of things that are somewhere else it's like what are the day-to-day things that you're like I enjoy blah and I think it's so important to like keep those things front of mind and be like cool how can I weave that into my day-to-day life yeah totally agree last year so for me one of the things that I like would have dreamed of being is like some kind of like performer like would have loved to be a pop star can't dance can't sing but I love it karaoke I'm your girl like the uber drivers I serenade them.

29:27Doone Roisin:They are just like, get this shit out of my car. But last year I was like, you know what? I'm going to start going to like singing lessons and dancing lessons because it's fun for me. I don't even care if I suck at it. And that makes my life richer because I have that kind of like element to doing this thing that really lights me up. It gets endorphins into my soul, you know? And I think it's important for people to look for those little things and then be like cool I'm not gonna be a pop star whatever yeah I could still go and do a lesson you know

29:57Jemma Sbeg:yeah still go and bring in joy that way this is why I don't like London at the moment because I'm like what really makes me happy is like being around my pets and being outside and that is giving me limited opportunities to do that yeah so it's about being like what's actually gonna make me happy and I moved to London being like this is a thing I should do in my 20s I should do this and now I'm like I don't this isn't it though yeah I think I'm like the fast

30:21Doone Roisin:forward version. I'm the future you version. I was like desperate to move. I moved from Queensland to Sydney or from Brisbane to Sydney. Loved it. Like immediate success. It was like tick, tick, tick ocean. Yep. Like this is for me. Moved to London and it was like such a different move. When did you move? How old were you? Sorry. I think I was 20. I must've been like 24 or 25. and it was 2015 that I left. 2015, yeah. But it was such a hard move and I loved it for so many reasons. And, you know, I met my husband there, I got my dog there, but I realised that that was like one of those fundamental things of realising who you are and what you like.

31:02Doone Roisin:I really like sunshine. I really like ocean. I'm just someone that wants that in my day every single day.

31:08Jemma Sbeg:Yeah.

31:09Doone Roisin:Rain or shine kind of thing, you know. Exactly. I feel the same way. So what are you going to do about it? how do you feel about living there and not loving it well you know what i was really in my head about

31:18Jemma Sbeg:like and you know what this could change i could do six more months and fall wildly in love with london right i could i don't know if that's i don't know but i could you could something could happen never say never yeah i could meet like my best friend and never want to leave her side right i could suddenly have like an amazing like career opportunity london could suddenly get a beach

31:40Doone Roisin:who knows or you could be like how would i make this work for me so if it's the beach cool i spend three months of the year in yeah in greece or wherever in italy like maybe that would be the

31:53Jemma Sbeg:dream actually um but i think that after you know i had this whole thing where i was like i don't want to be like i quit or like this is a failure or whatever and then i was like who gives a fuck sorry to swear like who cares swear away yeah like genuinely if i'm not happy why am i staying just to feel more unhappy you know what i mean like to prove to who and to what to people who literally won't care like a matter on my deathbed so i think we're going to give it to the end of the year and then see how we're going because i do still believe in sticking it out but if i've done a year i'm going to be like all right cool and i'm really still unhappy i'll i'll be back in

32:29Doone Roisin:Sydney yeah life's too short I I have this thing like it's like a super simple like exercise that I do where if I say to myself oh imagine if or wouldn't it be cool if and whatever the fill in the blank is I trigger that like that thought will happen and then I trigger it to be like what if I could do that so like if you you just said oh that would be actually the dream going to live in Greece my thinking is like so why don't you go and live in Greece because you're over there don't come back before you do that like go and even if it is three months you'll never regret doing three months there like ditch your apartment like get your husband to have a remote job your partner to have a remote job and like go live in Greece and just like live that lifestyle I know

33:13Jemma Sbeg:gosh I should be thinking more that way I reckon I'm thinking I know I'll have to get I'll have to have a look around Italy might be more my style exactly go live there yeah be so amazing you talk

33:26Doone Roisin:a lot about loneliness and kind of isolation and that's where I was going earlier with the whole AI piece and then got sidetracked with my thoughts but there's this stat I read recently that was talking about 76 % of founders struggle with loneliness which is seven times more than the average workplace and then as you get more successful you outgrow your peers you struggle more with isolation in terms of not knowing who to talk to. You can't complain to your staff. You can't be vulnerable to your investors. Can't complain to your friends. You can't complain to your friends. Your friends don't get it anymore.

34:03Doone Roisin:Like they love you. They're like, great. But they're like, I don't even understand what you're talking about.

34:07Jemma Sbeg:Like, what?

34:08Doone Roisin:Also like, aren't you making all this money? Like, yeah. Literally. Don't you like love your job? But like when we're thinking about loneliness, as you become more and more successful, and I'm sure this is something that you're starting to kind of feel for yourself as well, where you're like, okay, wait, I'm in my early 20s, but I'm very different to my peers and where my peers might be. How do you think we should be managing that aspect of loneliness with our brain and what's happening cognitively for us? Because it's like, this is happening, loneliness over here, but then over here, there's AI tools and technology and the rapidly fast pace change of the landscape that's kind of like meant to make things better but possibly making things worse you know having an AI companion or whatever or being stuck in a doom scroll on social media and kind of like in that whole thing or making it worse instead of making it better how do you think about loneliness and what are your kind of like if you're observe observing yourself and how you kind of connect with your peers and if you feel isolated and things like that how do you manage that as a founder i would say it's been really hard the last because my

35:22Jemma Sbeg:career has gone and just a hockey stick level of growth where it's just gone really really fast and um a lot of my friends like do not work in this industry i have a couple that i'm so grateful for um but i would say the majority of my friends are actually like people i met in uni who are like lawyers lawyers and lobbyists and working environment and like and a lot of them have corporate jobs which I used to have a corporate job and that was great I could be like my boss sucks and they'd be like yeah my boss sucks and I was like yeah our bosses suck now it's like boss yeah now it's like if I say my boss sucks I'm talking about me like um and it's just a whole new set of problems that I just think are really difficult to understand and it's hard to understand the personal buy-in to the problem.

36:10Jemma Sbeg:How much something that seems frivolous actually is really impacting me. I feel really difficult. I find it really hard to complain about social media to my friends or to complain about dealing with huge media contracts with my friends because a lot of it is like, wow, what a privileged problem to have. And they would never make me feel that way. But there are definitely, to be real, if I was them, I'd be a bit annoyed about it, especially like my friends who are you know social workers and psychologists and like who work so much harder than me let's be real like do a lot more their days are more stressful than mine and they make a lot less and it's like I feel very frivolous and they would never make me feel this way they're so wonderful but you know complaining about that stuff so it does feel lonely because you kind of gain a new set of problems which may not seem significant to other people bit are like daily things for you.

37:03Jemma Sbeg:I think if anybody who's listening, who has just started their own company, who was thinking about it, who has started their own podcast, whatever it is that you've done, find a founders network, find a group of people, find a good co-working space, anything, find people or peers in your field who you can talk to, because sometimes it's like the only thing you really need is just somebody else to validate you. And I went to this amazing brunch the other day with a bunch of people in London for my friend. She runs a jewelry brand. She's incredible. Smoothie Jewelry. What is it? Smoothie Jewelry.

37:36Jemma Sbeg:Smoothie Jewelry. Shout out to Smoothie. Everywhere. She's so cool. And she put together this like International Women's Day event with all these really cool people. And it was one of those first, it was like one of the first times I had genuinely just been like, wow, you get that too. And the thing we were talking about was um your strangers celebrating you more than friends oh I've had have you found this there are people who I do not know who give me more support than people I've known for like 10 years and how do you navigate that like how much do you how much are you owed from your friends when you enter a new chapter so how do you navigate it um I just there I don't know I don't know I I think with my Netflix, when my Netflix deal happened and I launched on Netflix, there were definitely people who I was like, oh, I thought I would hear from you today.

38:28Jemma Sbeg:And I didn't hear from them. Yeah. And that was really difficult. And then it was about like, is that entitlement or should I lower my expectations or, you know. Yeah. Am I the problem? Am I the problem? And that's always where my brain goes first. I'm like, it's really entitled to think that people would care as much as you do. And then my boyfriend was a bit like, boyfriend, we've been together for a while, but I'll say boyfriend for the sake of it. But he was like, no, this is amazing. This is one of the biggest things that could ever happen to somebody in this space. 100%. The person who's known you since you were 17 should care enough about whatever it is that they reach out to you.

39:10Jemma Sbeg:And I actually just ended up – there was one person in particular who I love dearly and I just said, hey, I really expected more. and I don't want there to be bitterness between us because I love you a lot. So I just want to bring it up and give you the chance to see how I'm feeling. And it made our friendship stronger. So I'm glad I did it. Sometimes having a bit of the courage to say like, I feel this sort of way, help me understand, explain it, whatever. It's really, really helpful.

39:40Doone Roisin:And I guess that could also go the other way where you might kind of discover the friends that you naturally outgrow and let go of and move away from as you kind of shift into different circles.

39:58Jemma Sbeg:Yeah, that's definitely happened as well. Also, to be completely candid, like with money, money makes things really awkward sometimes, like especially getting, I don't know, I don't have world's amount of money, but getting a significant amount of wealth in your 20s is when you went in a couple of years and trying to figure out how to not make that awkward for everybody. Totally. And who to talk to?

40:25Doone Roisin:What could I be doing to maximize it? Whatever. Who cares? What should I be investing in? How do I start investing in whatever? It's different conversations that you're starting to have.

40:34Jemma Sbeg:Yeah. And it's also just like, I don't want to make my friends uncomfortable and I don't know like complain about stuff it's also just like what do you tell them how much your Netflix deal is for do you tell them how much your podcast deal is for or but you know what I mean like me and my friends used to talk we always used to talk about like how much we were making and when we would get promotions and I honestly think it's important for women to talk

40:59Doone Roisin:about that same I'm such a sticky bake I'm like tell me everything yeah and also so you can be I tell you everything. Yeah.

41:07Jemma Sbeg:So I'm like, so you can be like, you know, you're not getting what you deserve or whatever. And especially if you work with people as well, having open communication about that. And it was this weird shift where it was like, I remember signing my first big deal. I mean, like, this is insane. But no, I should not tell them because it's just a bit, I don't know. That's so interesting. Even now I feel awkward talking about how I felt awkward, you know. Yeah, it's so interesting because it's so important to talk about these things.

41:36Doone Roisin:I'm like a big advocate for like sharing and talking about money, talking about the things that feel weird, even though they shouldn't feel weird, like to me. And, you know, we have a private network that we've been building specifically for women who are becoming more and more successful. obviously you'll have to be have to be in there where you do have people around you who are at a similar stage to where you are so you can openly share these kind of things and like look to your left or look to your right and be like hey what did you do in this situation like I know that you're kind of in the same space or maybe even if you're not in the same space but there are overlapping kind of um like themes where you can be like do you know how to navigate this because yes I love my friends but my peer group from a social perspective is very different to the people that I hang out with you know work-wise or creator-wise or whatever and I think it's like finding finding those kind of people that you can have around you to have those conversations and navigate together so you're not further isolated and you're not further alone and it's not just

42:41Jemma Sbeg:about money I thought that's a small point but just other things where I think it's really hard because like a lot of my friends do work in yeah high pressure environments and again I don't want to come in and be like woe is me because I want to respect that like they work really hard and you know it's just different but I still love them I don't know I'm still trying to figure it out also I'm quite young you know it's quite young and I feel like I made a few mistakes for talking about it or not talking about it so something I wish I had more information about you know what I mean

43:11Doone Roisin:Something I wish I had a mentor to talk to me about it. Right.

43:14Jemma Sbeg:Yeah.

43:15Doone Roisin:Someone who's like a few steps ahead to be like how to navigate this.

43:19Jemma Sbeg:Yeah.

43:19Doone Roisin:Like a business therapist.

43:21Jemma Sbeg:A business therapist. Yeah. Like I really still do. I need that too. I know.

43:24Doone Roisin:I know. I need to find a good one. You talk a lot about or I don't know if you talk a lot about this, but something that I was listening to on one of your episodes was talking about how to change your mind about something and change your mind about something big. And that's actually something my husband and I do. And I can give you an example afterwards. But what was something big that you changed your mind about? And how did you go about that decision-making framework to change your mind?

43:54Jemma Sbeg:Oh, my goodness. So many beliefs of mine have changed in the last probably five years. I think a big thing that changed for me was whether I should go back to school. I really wanted to go and do my PhD for a long time. And I really felt like I needed that to feel like I was an expert and I could have authority to what I was saying. And I really felt like that was always going to be my path. I really do love academia. And then in the last year, I've been like, actually, and it's kind of sad, but I was like, that dream's probably not going to happen. Not that it can't, but I think that it's not my dream anymore.

44:35Jemma Sbeg:And I've changed my mind about it. And it was hard to admit that to myself. Like you kind of need to stop hanging on to that. This is actually isn't what you want anymore. And this isn't the way your life is going. So yeah, maybe it will. And I really had to change my mind about what was important to me in terms of like my future.

44:54Doone Roisin:And so how do you, when you're kind of, because I think for anyone listening, let's say they have, it could be a relationship. It could be a friendship. It could be a career pivot. It could be going back to school. It could be children yes or no all of these huge buckets that you kind of like can also just be on autopilot going going going buying a house whatever going going going going going how do you for yourself just stop and be like wait observing this big thing what if it was the other way or something how do you even get to the point of being like oh wait I should think about this for a minute

45:27Jemma Sbeg:I think it's when you start to feel like it's on your mind all the time and there's discomfort when there's discomfort is is where you should dig deeper when you're uncomfortable is where you should be like okay this needs some interrogating so if you find like oh my god I'm thinking about this I'm thinking about this I'm thinking about this and you're just thinking about thinking about it or you'll keep going back and forth and there's no break in the cycle like for me thinking about I've had a lot of things I've changed my mind about but that's just the easy example I was like I should do it I should do it I should do it I shouldn't do it blah blah blah blah back back back and I was like just stop pause and get this out of your head and outside of you verbally and just speak about it and what I always do is like yeah pros cons list is great but also my future if this happened in my future if if this didn't happen and the worst case scenario for both and then I I always is like I I always make sure that I take the worst case scenario and I give myself a bunch of other options about how it could be better, how it could not be the worst case scenario and how I could cope even if it was.

46:33So like I think about like the wanting or not

46:39Jemma Sbeg:wanting children is like a good example. And it's like, okay, so my life in five years, if I decide I want children and we have children, this is what it would look like. My life in five years, if I decided that I didn't want children, we didn't have them, that's what it would look like. What would be the worst case scenario in both of these cases? Worst case scenario, I end up realizing I hate being a mother and I realize that this has taken all my freedom if I have kids. Worst case scenario, if I don't have kids, I end up realizing there's this huge, awful hole in my life that I can't fill with anything else.

47:05Jemma Sbeg:That's the worst case scenario. What are five other scenarios that could actually happen? And then what's the best case scenario? And what's the alternative that could be even better? You know what I mean? And that's so important to me. And how could I cope? So like say I decide not to have kids and I have this huge, terrible regret. I could still survive that by being a mother in so many other ways. Mothering pets, mothering friends, children, like mothering, you know, nature, mothering family. So yeah, that's how I try and do it. And that's what happened with my PhD idea. whenever I've broken up with anybody I go through that as well when I even deciding to move back

47:49Doone Roisin:from London probably soon haven't done it yet I'm talking like I have I also like in those kind of situations and those like the big topics it's for me it's about understanding like the five whys deep so like why do I want to do something why like is it ego is it money is it it's going to get me to the next thing is it like what is it and kind of like breaking down and it always takes It's like getting, you know, whatever the answer is first, it's then like being like, but why does that then matter? And so getting like really to the core root of why you're driven to do something, because then you can almost like pop the bubble and be like, oh, I actually don't care about that.

48:26Doone Roisin:Or, oh, I really do. That's why I now understand my purpose of why I want to do this thing. And like just truly understanding your own motivation with it.

48:37Jemma Sbeg:Yeah.

48:38Doone Roisin:So important. So important. I want to kind of switch lanes for a minute here and talk about the Netflix deal. Obviously, this is a business podcast and I've rattled in a million different directions and I want to talk about the business stuff. I want to talk about the Netflix deal and how something like that comes about. What is it? Tell me more. Tell me everything.

48:59Jemma Sbeg:Yeah, well, the Netflix deal basically is a deal for two years so that all my video podcasts are on Netflix. Nowhere else you can't find video episodes anywhere but netflix the audio episodes you can find elsewhere but it's for 96 episodes per year for two years to begin with and yeah it started in january when we're recording this what is it now march april um so we've done it cool i know it has been really cool it's also been very life-changing in a structural way how it's shifted how i how busy i am what my weeks look like what my relationships look like um I went from being I had one employee now I'm a boss to like 10 people what yeah in like the span of three months like so many people problems oh I know I'm not I don't know how good I am at it a lot of them are like contractors as well but um yeah and I'm you know having to manage how we produce the show a team of editors like it's just gone really big really quickly.

50:01Doone Roisin:And so I don't know if you talk publicly about like the numbers, you know, how the kind of deal is structured, like what is the kind of money that you're going to make? So no pressure if you don't want to talk about it. I don't mind. I'm just a sticky beak. So I always ask just in case. But how did you go about negotiating the deal? So like what happens like were they just like knock knock like here's an email, here's what we're thinking. You know, I know we were talking about it kind of off camera a minute ago, but like what is it actually like did you negotiate it did someone else negotiate it like how does that work so they uh contacted

50:32Jemma Sbeg:us through iheart who uh is my network for my podcast and they wanted to see a slate of podcasts that they thought were kind of like heavy hitters and very recognizable mine being one of them think thank you for my listeners for making that possible um it's hard sometimes to talk about because i'm like i don't always see myself that way but it's you know it's the podcast you know not me so that makes it easier and um they essentially yeah we negotiated with my lawyers iHeart Netflix to find like a good deal but Netflix kind of came to the table with like this is what we're going to offer take it or leave it right and iHeart was like this is what we're going to offer as part of our contribution to this deal we can negotiate that and I just have an amazing team of lawyers I will say like get a good if you are music if you are music if you're in business if you're in anything where you are the the center of how money is made um get a really good lawyer and i luckily had an amazing one i don't have a lawyer you you don't

51:35Doone Roisin:have a lawyer i'm like do i need i'm scared i'm scared for you uh probably not i think doing my textiles contract with chat gvt no you need a lawyer i didn't i had a lawyer i was gonna say

51:46Jemma Sbeg:i was like no no get a lawyer because they and having a good lawyer who can be like no don't want that like and luckily my partner's also a lawyer so he gives me a second round of of protection and um oh yeah we're gonna have to have a follow-up conversation about this oh he's it's a great record yeah dating a lawyer is amazing actually i really enjoy the perks financially yeah no the perks of like him doing a lot of the work for me and also like he writes all my contracts for me so like if i have an employee contract if i have a usage contract like anything he just does it for me oh i love that i trust him a lot with it and so when you think about

52:20Doone Roisin:the impact of Netflix emotionally and like on your soul? What has been the biggest change, you know, less about the numbers and the distribution that you're going to get and the success and the fame and all this kind of thing? What is the like the personal thing? Are you just like, hell yeah, pat myself on the back. Does it make you more anxious? Does it put more pressure? Is it does that, you know, change things with your friends or your family? What is the kind of impact that the deal has had emotionally for you?

52:48Jemma Sbeg:Well, I feel like we're australian right it hasn't my family were like cool netflix was that yeah i think they watched

52:55Doone Roisin:like one episode my auntie will still be like even my mom actually so what do you do yeah like

53:00Jemma Sbeg:how do you make money again yeah i know i know that's that's the question i get a lot from my family they're kind of like what um i know i think you know what it's changed can i be real i feel like i just grew up really quick like i feel like i've i just had this I it's not that my personality has changed but the way I see myself changed in a couple of weeks where I went from being like I have this fun thing that I do that I love and I like to be creative to being like I run a business now like yeah you have a responsibility yeah yeah and I really see the shift like I shifted into thinking of myself as like a business owner and a founder this year whereas previously I would have told you that I was a creative and then I was somebody who you know even until up to last year I was like this is my hobby right um obviously not I was paying my bills but like I was making money yeah oh yeah like but even then like you know it wasn't like a crazy amount like um I was like oh this is this is like yeah I feel so uncomfortable I need to get better at this but um yeah I just I just my whole identity is as who I was shifted yeah it's

54:07Doone Roisin:like the language changed the language changed the language changed and also like how you kind of like show like you how you show up and present to the world like emotionally for your for yourself

54:16Jemma Sbeg:how you think about yourself yeah and I also I've been a lot more conscious of like probably beating down on myself a little bit more being like don't you don't be no no entitlement is allowed to like like go through like I I really was conscious of like I just don't want to feel any more important than I than an average person and I don't know why but I just yeah I was really worried about that where I was like oh which is probably a sign that it's not going to happen but I was really worried about not being a dick about it and I don't know I just like have seen that happen sometimes and I'm like I just didn't want that to be the case and then the other big thing is like I'm a boss now which is we were just talking about and wanting to be a good boss and thinking about what that means like I really want to be a good boss and I want to be a good leader and I want people to feel cared for, taken care of.

55:07Jemma Sbeg:I want our company to do things differently. Like we have breakup leave. Your leave does not need to be approved.

55:14Doone Roisin:Breakup leave. I love that. Yeah.

55:15Jemma Sbeg:We're like a Gen Z company, right? Your leave does not need to be approved. So as long as you give a month's notice, we will find, like, you don't have to ask me to go on holiday. You don't have to, there is no requirement for a doctor's note for sick leave ever. what the hell is that you could literally take a month off and yeah if you get your work done you're good yeah obviously we'd be a bit worried about you if you took a month off and didn't give us an explanation and didn't do your work but it would be more like you okay like what can we do to help you because i'm just like people are smart and people want to work hard and the people that we we bring onto the team work really really hard and i trust you and that's like yeah it's definitely made me think about what it means to be a good person to work for and that's really important for me.

56:02Doone Roisin:The values you want to bring through in your company and culture. Which I hadn't thought about until this year and now I'm like, yeah. That's so exciting. Yeah, I hope so. I've loved this. I have two final quick questions for you. Firstly, just for anyone who's listening who is in her 20s, what is your message to young women who are in their 20s and they want to strive for success and, you know, make all their dreams come true?

56:27Jemma Sbeg:I feel like, and this is something I live my life by is like this is the decade for making the mistakes that your future self will thank you for like I really that's my life philosophy for this decade of my life is like so not my life philosophy my 20s philosophy is like um if you do nothing more than realize that like if you do nothing more than like open a bunch of doors and realize that what's on the other side is not for you you've still done more than somebody who's opened one door or hasn't opened any so just like be like is that gonna work no is that gonna work no maybe yes and now it's not working anymore like just put yourself in as many situations as you can to prevent the the what if and the regret of later on you have to figure out what you don't like to figure out what you do like see that's that's a more clear way of saying it i've tried all the expert i'm

57:20Doone Roisin:I'm like, if I don't like it, I just won't do it. My brain is like, nope, moving on. That's me with TikTok. Pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot. Yeah. Until you land on the thing that you love. Yeah, exactly. I.E. Oops. I.E. Pink Room. And my last question is you have built a brand around psychology in your 20s. How do you think about psychology in your 30s?

57:43Jemma Sbeg:Oh, my God. This is a question I get a lot from listeners. Nobody's ever asked me about it on the podcast before or on a podcast. if I'm gonna give you a completely candid answer great totally honest I don't think I will do the psychology of your 30s um I'll see how I go but I spent and if I do I'm gonna need a little bit of time off because I spent my entire 20s documenting what it means to be in this decade and I kind of wish I lived it a little bit more and I still have a couple more years yeah multiple couple more years um i would really like to be doing something a little bit different but who knows the evolution of you yeah i know evolution of self whatever i really do believe it will it will whatever needs to happen will happen i love that for you jemma thank you so

58:31Doone Roisin:much for being on the show thanks for having me loved this yeah the best

58:38Doone Roisin:hey it's June here thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the female startup club podcast if you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter we send it out weekly covering female founder business news insights and learnings in D2C and interesting business resources. And if you're a founder building an e-commerce brand, you can join our private network of entrepreneurs called Hype Club at femalestartupclub.com forward slash Hype Club. We have guests from the show joining us for intimate Ask Me Anythings, expert workshops, and a group of totally amazing, like-minded women building the future of D2C brands.

59:24Doone Roisin:As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.