Choose Your Creative Path with Erika Alexander and Kim Coles

27:31And then the person comes. I said, I asked you for permission. Do you have a room here? And I I said, why would I be here if I wasn't? And then when I went back, you know, Ben, my partner said, you know, why didn't you tell him you were going to see Michelle Obama? I said, because how dare they? You shouldn't have to. You shouldn't have to. I said, they should treat everybody with decency and I wouldn't give them the satisfaction. And he said, but they would have. And I said, no, it's not about that. I did everything right. But the point is, that happens all the time. And you have to just pick yourself up and say, I do belong here.

28:06And I have the right to be here and explain yourself. There's so many ways to jack up your adrenaline and all of that. And I have to say that being educated and calm, I'm doing my best to not be provoked. That's a defense. It is. And it's a skill that you have to learn. So your parents, a lot of those parents would say, and you need to be a lawyer or a doctor or this or that. because you also need that armor as you grow. But both of your parents said, we try this acting thing, you know. Reverend Dr. Clifford Coles. Not really. Reverend Dr. Clifford Coles. I call him Reverend Dr. Daddy. Until he left this earth, was still expecting me to matriculate at some point.

28:57So I was going to speak at a college and he would go, Kimberly, this would be a wonderful, They would give you an opportunity to come back and think, yes. So my situation is that I was the first generation that didn't finish college. My grandmother went back to get her master's in the 50s, in her 50s. So my mother almost has her master's. My dad has his doctorate and all the things. So they were like, this entertainment business is really cute. We're going to support you. Oh, you're so funny on TV. We love telling our neighbors. However, when are we going back to school? So always. Dad, it's the school of life.

29:32He's so proud. And never made me feel as if I was not still loved and appreciated. And you're doing a great job. But we're going to go back and get that degree. My dad kept trying to send me from computer classes from DeVry. Wow. I just saw that commercial. That first level of podcast show. Yes. Do you wish you'd have some of those skills now? Are you kidding? I wish. Are you kidding? I did not end up going. I got into NYU and I dropped out, you know, legitimately. Four times. To go to the Royal Shakespeare Company tour. My mother said, you know what? If you travel around the world, that's its own education.

30:03Go and do that. And I asked her permission because I knew it would matter to her. But I have to say, just recently, not too long ago, Bennett College, the smallest HBCU in North Carolina, gave me a doctorate. And my mother was there. And she cried. And I cried like a baby. Because I knew that she was proud of me. You know how that is. And I'm walking there. And I didn't know how much it meant to me to not only satisfy her expectations for me. But what it meant was like, oh, I belong here. Excuse me. And I'll always be grateful. Thank you. I'll always be grateful. Bless you. So when did you both know I want to be an actor?

30:44That's what I want to figure out. I was in my 40s. I got hypnotized. Really? I'm not even lying to you. I got hypnotized. I remember I was in Venice. And I went to some hypnotist. I said, let me go. and I'm trying out new things. I'm always interested. And they put me under and I thought this, or the woman did, and I thought this is not working. I'm totally not under. But I told her something that was in my mind about going in a basement and there was water and then I went to a closet and all this other stuff. And then I came out of it and I was sitting there and she said something about being an actress.

31:18And I go, yeah, okay. She said, well, haven't you been doing it for a long time? And I said, yeah, I guess so. She said, well, you're an actress.

31:28And I have to say, I hadn't heard it like that. I got out of there. I got in my car. What did you think you were doing all these years, Erica? Kim will tell you. I was always writing my comeback piece. Yeah, she was saying, I'm going to my trailer to write my comeback piece. Like, what do you think you're going to have to come back from? While I was doing the big single. But I got in my car and I sobbed like a baby because I realized I had not accepted my fate. Wow. And it needed her. and whatever happened in this hypnotism had unlocked this door. And I cried for 20 minutes straight where I said, you are an actress.

32:03Was it tears of joy? Were you happy about it? No, it was tears of recognition and worthy. Yeah. You just maybe suppressed that I couldn't believe. Yeah. That you were you. Yeah, and maybe my own expectations were not to be an actress. Yeah. to be a scientist or something much more legitimate. And yet this is my life. Yes. And I have to say, stop running from it. Accept it. You're here and you're doing well. I mean, it's not easy, but I was made for it. I just thought, here's the thing. You ever see people and they come in and they can play and they can do their thing? Yeah, sure. And they have an innate thing for it.

32:45Yeah, absolutely. And then they're either nurtured or they take it on or they don't. So I had an innate thing for it, but I didn't think that it was my thing. I just thought, oh, I can do that. I realize now that fate serves you up to destiny. And you have to accept that. But I had not accepted it. And I needed to. And so I'm grateful. So that's when I found out when I was 47 years old. And I am grateful that you have because, like, this is the thing we do. Like, there are these certain roles and positions. There's a certain way to live life. You can have these positions and that means you're important, you're worthy.

33:27But you both have impacted so many people's lives. There is a ministry and a deep power that has resonated through decades from the work that you've done. and to not feel the pride and the importance of that. I want that for you because you've done that for so many people. I mean, you're sitting here, both of you, and I feel like I know you. I've known you, right? I mean, little old me. Little old me. Can I fall out? But watching through the work that you do, the acting thing that you've done, the shows you've created, the roles you put out there, you've changed lives. Erica needed a little bit of mom because my mom would have said to you that all of the kids in our neighborhood could have done all of the stuff that we did.

34:37we were all talented we were all talented come on she would have told you you would have you she wouldn't have hypnotized you but she would have told you how talented you are not just as an actor and actress but as a person and it comes out of you in in your um generosity of your talent. And that's what I can see looking back at living single and then what you've done since. And then what you're doing now for the industry and for young folks. you just need... My mom would have... Your mother did just tell me that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, now you're going to get me right. All four of us will be here right.

35:27Is that what was happening in your household? You just told me. Thank you. Thank you, Queen. It's the good enough piece of it, right? Yeah, the good enough. I mean, we touched on it. Shoot, the hotel incident this morning, right? Come on. Is the constant reminder to us as people of color, as women. You know, it's the thing your parents taught us, that we have to prove that we're good enough. You were in Ivy League schools and you talk about proving yourself. I had to prove to people that, you know, my husband and I are still proving that we were legitimate people to run the country. You know, that we were good enough to be the president and the first lady.

36:07I mean, that psychological thing, that's not in our heads. It's happened. And it continues to happen for sure. How did you ground into that? How did you, you know? Well, like you guys said, it's like you're sort of in the school of believing in yourself. You know, it's like we, our communities, our families, the people who know better, right? They indoctrinate us into this, you are black and proud. You are good enough. That's right. And then it's almost, you have to replace all those other daily messages, daily slights, daily microaggressions with these positive messages. and somewhere in there is your raw talent, is the rawness of who you in that motel, running around speaking proper English, the Erica and the Kims, the essence of you is always there.

37:06And you know that when you're a kid. And we were fortunate to have parents who poured into us that we could do whatever we wanted to do. And it's still hard. You're still out. But it's funny. There's this level of, and people use the term imposter syndrome. And I don't think it's imposter syndrome. That's not what I'm feeling. It's more of a, you just got to prove myself. Always. Every day. You never know. Year after year. And my mom would be like, you shouldn't be worried about what people think. Right. But you worry about what people think. I'm glad you said it's not imposter syndrome. because I always felt like, I don't feel like an imposter, but I just don't know if people have shaped what that is.

37:53Yeah. Yeah, we may have to do another show. You've got to. There's a lot of people talking about that now. And I've always said that real imposters don't have that syndrome. We all know a whole lot of imposters who don't have any doubt whatsoever that they got it going on. It's like, it's not the imposters who have the problem. And so why should we doubt? Or why should we, you know, Because life does what life does. It's just a little reminder of maybe you don't really belong here. Maybe you're not good enough. Well, we also don't give ourselves permission to have joy. I mean, you start with my mom.

38:30Now, she had it rough, right? Come on. Because that's also where we are. As hard as we may have it, as black folks, we have it better. and the generations have always improved, even though we still have a long way to go, but it makes it difficult to enjoy it, right? You feel like, have we earned the claim? Is it now enough? Is it now enough? Is it enough? My gosh. And this is part of what I've been trying to unravel. When is it enough? When can I sort of rest a little bit, And, you know, not just as me, but as a 60-year-old woman, when can I finally look and go, I have done a lot and I've done enough.

39:19I mean, that doesn't mean I'm stopping, but I have really done enough. And when, if not now, am I going to be able to look on my accomplishments and say, good job. And maybe those are the tears. The tears are like, Erica, good freaking job. Good job. Good job. And you didn't need the PhD to do it. But there's no ceremony for that. Like there's no walking across the aisle of congratulations. Right. You are a wonderful human being. Right. A woman in the world who's done something powerful. Thank you. Thank you. And I think that brings tears. The tears of relief that maybe it's enough. It's enough.

40:04The pride of it too. Because we're always told. Be humble. The pride of it. Be humble. That's what I hear in you, the humility. I'll be humbling to the ground. That's right. You know? Yeah. And yet we come from also people from Muhammad Ali on that had to say who they were and tell the world that they were great. You know, the rappers, they come out with, you know, you coach, your mindset is everything. You better be the first one. Confidence. Yes, black women, and often we're not told that. Oh, and when we do it, then we'd be an uppity. Who she thinks she is? We're being bossy. We're being a problem.

40:40Yeah. We're being, we're complicated. Yes. Yes. Difficult. Difficult. I've been told that several times. And I always, it hurts my heart. I'm like, really? I said, well, after a while, I was like, well, I guess I am. Right. Is it difficult or is it commanding respect? Is it difficult or is it having boundaries? Or I like to call them peaceful perimeters. Peaceful perimeters? A peaceful perimeter. Because boundaries sounds like war. Sounds like a new underwear. Keeping everything out. Peaceful perimeter says, this is what I will allow in. And you're not welcome here. Off you go. That's your girdle.

41:15Your girdle is a peaceful perimeter. It is not peaceful at all. It is not peaceful at all. It is evil.

41:30You all know how much I love staying in Airbnbs. I just got to D.C. and I found yet another one. It's right smack dab in the middle of Georgetown. And the best feature about this place is the rooftop patio. I mean, you get fantastic views of Georgetown. And what else I like about this location, it is walkable to a bunch of places. I ate dinner in Georgetown, was able to walk home. I can walk and get coffee first thing in the morning. and it's really close to where we're recording. And like most Airbnbs, it has all of the comforts of home, kitchen, laundry, and especially during these hot days, it's got air conditioning.

42:14Don't tell anybody, but I've made use of the hot tub. Airbnb makes it super easy to find what I'm looking for. So next time you're booking a trip, be like me and book an Airbnb. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, who help people move forward and live fully. Owning a home can be one of the most powerful ways to build financial security. But for many, especially first-generation buyers, it can feel out of reach. That's why I appreciate what Progressive is doing. In 2024, they contributed over$7 million to help individuals and families break the cycle of renting by providing support, offering educational resources, and developing tools to build long -term financial stability through home ownership.

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46:46Erica, we were not ready for your answer. That was appreciated. But I want to hear from Kim. What now? I want to hear when did you feel like you were going to be an entertainer? because, you know, stand-up comedy, it's hard. Yeah, but like, what makes you say, I'm going to get on stage and I'm going to be funny to all y 'all? Because I know I'm funny. I think I'm funny. We all think we're funny, but it's a form format. No, we all think we're funny, but we don't all think we could stand up in front of people and be funny. Really, it started for me in high school. Okay. I didn't know what I was building, but I was building.

47:31So I was the chubby girl. And going into high school, I was 14. I was like, the fat girl in high school doesn't always fare so well. You get teased and you're weird, chubby, whatever that is. And so I thought, I know what I'll do. If I make them laugh with me instead of at me, then nobody will ever call me fat. Because I've already told the jokes. I've already made them laugh. And I've already deflected. Now I call it a peaceful. Remember, I've already said, don't look at this. Look at this. And comedy is actually a connector. Yes. And I know that now from standing on stage and watching an audience, there's nothing more thrilling for me.

48:09And I don't do stand-up as much as I used to. I've now morphed into being a speaker, and I still use some of those same things as a speaker. There's a connection that happens. The audience is connecting to you because they're laughing or listening. And often, audience members turn to each other and laugh, and there's a way of connection. And so I was avoiding being called the chubby girl. But what I was really doing was creating a connection. So years later, when I dropped in and out of college about three times, 1985 was the first time I stepped on a stage and tried this thing. I would write my little jokes and perform because I felt that connection.

48:46You guys picked a hard industry. Yeah, for sure. And I want to talk a little bit about that because you showed your Shakespearean abilities. You showed the ability to work in a team, in an ensemble. You showed the comedy. You showed the drama. You showed the, and you lasted. Tell us, and then what? And then what? Tell us about the industry. It's the segregation of television. Yeah. Officially. We were number one. You were about to say. We were number one in African-American households for all five seasons. You always remind me that we were number one in Latino households. Not to mention, I always tell the story of the little Jewish man in the bank who grabbed my arm like, I love you girls.

49:32You girls are so beautiful. I love you girls. I love the queen. Give the queen life. I love you girls. And so lots of people loved us, although we were relegated and segregated. Yeah, and yet something happened that I think was intentional or not. It happened. Everything changed. And they started to create different cable networks that had to build their audience. We were already on one, which was the Fox channel. And we helped build that network, literally. Tisha Campbell, Sheena, all of them. In Living Color. In Living Color. Living Single. All of that. Wasn't it a Jamie Foxx show? Was he on?

50:13Jamie Foxx was on the CW. So that's what happened. Everything started to shift and place shows with black cast. Now, Kim, you'll say black shows. And I don't say that. I say shows with black cast. in those spaces. Not for nothing, you could certainly see everything sort of bleed off the page. And there's a problem with that because that means that we're not getting in the mainstream anymore. We're not giving the opportunity of marketing and sponsorship that that can afford. And so you're also, the value goes down. So when I was growing up, when we're all growing up, the Jeffersons, what's happening, all of that was run.

50:57You'd see MASH, you'd see the Jeffersons, you'd see blah, blah, blah. No one ever called the Jeffersons a black show. You just called it Jefferson. You certainly didn't call the Cosby Show a black show. It was a show. Suddenly we were black shows. And that went away. And I think it messed up everything in terms of momentum because we had the huge form of momentum, again, with Fresh Prince, Family Matters, all of these things. So what happened was everything changed. And if you don't have anybody funding these things, then you're in trouble. But when you say everything changed, usually when their success begets success, especially in Hollywood, well, what exactly changed?

51:36Was it the executives? Was it cultural? Was it political? Was it too much success? There you go. Too much success. It's not the first time that that's happened. That there's too much success and then suddenly somebody pulls the rug out underneath. So just around 2000, things shifted. And, you know, I remember somebody telling me a memo, but they wanted things lighter and brighter. And that meant the end of us. Now, was it the money? I mean, with the more success, were you negotiating as a cast for more? No, we didn't even know to do that. And there was no way. We were always in the black. There was no way that we could be too much money for the budgets they gave us.

52:20Right, right. We were always operating the Black. We were very successful in syndication from the get-go. It was just— I don't understand because we had a new network president come in and then decided to just change the complexion of the network. And it didn't work. It didn't work. You've now lost the audience. You've now lost this audience that you've built up, that's built trust. Like, this is where I come if I want this kind of show. And, you know, we didn't go away altogether, but the rug was pulled out. Misha and I talked about, we talked about this a little bit beforehand, because right after you all show, Friends comes out.

53:00Oh, the year after us. It's like, come on. Yes. And what we talked about is the opportunities for another successful show like that, for the folks who ended that one. Oh, they went on to do a whole. They were very different. And their salaries were through the roof. Yeah, so I think it would be nice for our listeners to hear your thoughts on that because I think I know what they are, but it's noticeable for me from the outside looking in, right? Noticeable for everyone. And as good as Friends could have been, I felt a certain way, so I didn't watch it because of y 'all's show. Oh, wow. Craig is true to this.

53:51He's true to this. He ain't new to this. Thank you. You're welcome. Um, it's true that often Black people in performing arts start things, whether it's from Elvis Presley on, that are imitations of other things. And that's certainly what happened there. It just happened to be that we were at the same, you know, production company. Production company Warner Brothers, right? And so it was quite obvious. It's what happens all the time. The problem is that you could also see the type of investment they were making versus what they were making with us. And that to me is the frustrating thing that is systemic and we fight all over.

54:39People think because you're in showbiz that you are spoiled and you're getting all of these things. And one of the things that we did the podcast for is we wanted people to know us as people, to sort of see us as people who are inside of a corporate structure. And if that corporate structure exists in America, it is probably built on the same, you know, flawed foundation that all these structures, I mean, industries are built on. You know, we talk about people not funding black women. Less than 1 % of venture capital goes into black women's business. Well, Yvette Lee Bowser, black women's business.

55:19We are black. I mean, you have an agent and a manager and you have a thing. You're a small business. So am I. That's what we're getting in a way. Sure, we're the lucky ones and it looks fortunate, but we have the same. Fight. Yeah. And it's hard to talk about when I say it's hard to talk about because what happens is people end up going, hey, you're lucky and this and this and that. I said, well, I didn't say that we weren't fortunate. I'm saying that the downward pressure of wages is real everywhere. And so if you want to talk about it, you know, outside of being famous, then you can. But just because I'm famous, don't make it less true.

55:58And so we do have an issue. It's true. Well, Hollywood is, it's a subjective business, right? You know, we now have a production company. We're getting a taste of it. But there are decision makers, right? and people tend to make decisions around whether they think they're expert or not, it's based on their taste. Oh, for sure. And it's hard to convince some of these heads and the green lighters to understand that they have an inherent bias to pick things that they like, which is why you want diversity in these seats of power because yes, you're a white guy, you like sports and you like women that look a certain way, or maybe you think this is funny.

56:50That's just one perspective. But I, as a black woman, as a woman who's seen this or that, I can tell you that this is interesting. And there's a whole pool of people that will pay money. You can make money off of these people. But in the end, who's going to, who makes the decision? The person in charge who decides ultimately, am I going to go with your opinion or with mine. And if when you're in charge, you'd go with your opinion. And I see that happening time and time again at all, you know, in all industries, in all sectors. And their opinion is going to bankrupt the industry because you're the future.

57:29There's no doubt about it. Yeah, they don't speak to a whole market. I had that challenge even with my book, Writing Becoming. Great publishers, supportive. My book tour was my idea. It wasn't like the publishers said, you know what? You could go on a 32-city book tour. I was like, well, you know, there are a lot of people out there who are interested in the story and the conversation. I said, I bet we could do something bigger than that, right? And so we had this huge book tour that nobody had ever done before. Because guess what? I don't know that a lot of people in the industry realized there were that many women and women of color who had that kind of disposable income.

58:17There you go. There were people, I was in Denmark, and there was a group of sisters from Detroit in the VIP line. Yes. My first thing was like, Danish, Danish, Danish sisters. And my whole thing was like, what are y 'all doing here? And they were like, girl, we wanted to meet you. The tickets in Detroit were sold out. Wow. We saved up. Detroit. We bought money. Of course. They came to Denmark. Detroit to Denmark. I love this city. I said, well, what else are you doing in Denmark? They were like, we don't know. Right. But we came to see you, and then we'll see some of Denmark. And I was like, you all go.

58:57Right? But if that's happening for Michelle Obama, But this is the thing that after— Yeah, but after that— That's nuts. Then what was the next big book tour? What was the next—the audience is there. And this is what you try to convince the decision makers. It's like, wow, you don't know me. You don't know my audience. But if you're the decision maker and it's not your data— And that means they don't have the vision. No. It's not their experience. They don't even believe—like, it's the same thing that makes you cry. because sometimes you just feel like you just don't see me. Right. You don't see me no matter what I do.

59:38Right. You still don't see me. And it's because, and I'm not, it's not because you don't want to. And you can't say that to folks because they feel like, no, that's not who I am. And it's like, it's not who you are, but it's not who you are in your heart. But it's who you become. have made it impossible for you to understand that you really are only seeing the things that you believe in. So I'm asking you, I'm asking us, what happens to get visionaries in those, visionaries or people who will take the risk? Because it's not going to risk you. You've proven it. You know, Wakanda proved it. Homeboy.

1:00:18Sinners. Sinners proved it. Like we prove it over and over and over again. So what does it take to find the visionaries in those places who will say yes, who will green light something, who will keep taking that. And it ain't a risk and it ain't a chance. You need diversity. Yeah. You know, the bad word of the decade. We call it DEI. It's been castigated. It's been demonized. But it's essentially just saying that you just need a lot of different people in the rooms, in decision-making rooms, not out of some favor, but as a business strategy. It's just business. It's just, you would rather miss money.

1:00:59Right. That part. Like that part. You just said, yeah. Everybody used to always say, oh, never. They'll always get their money, their money. I said, that's actually not true. Not necessarily true. If you leave billions of dollars on the table, that can do good for people. Or believing that a movie won't play overseas. Of course it will. We've proven it. The data is there. But that's why diversity matters. it just we just all have different experiences that's all that's all it is it's just we have different tastes and there's money to be made in all of it but if the tastemakers look a certain way then the shows tend that get promoted that get marketed that get the opportunity you know that's where the money goes to me this is Jurassic age it's falling apart it's meant to It can't go on.

1:01:52I mean, I love Reverend Barber. I quote him all the time. Your friend, Reverend Barber, calls this the third reconstruction. And so if it is, that means these foundations have to be redone. And we are architects of the third reconstruction. They're already palimpsests. There's new investors and new people. There's Cora Jefferson, American fiction. There's Jordan Peele, who's doing Get Out. There's Alicia Harris. Amazing. I just did a film with her, Is God Is. They are not playing. I needed them to come and find me and say, invite me to play. Not even have me audition and say, I know what she can do.

1:02:27I know she can do this role. And then come on, let's do it. Tell us about the lives you've created for yourselves in the midst of rejection and waiting and all of this, because you both are standing up, back straight, looking good. So you figured something out. Yes, we are. And they would buy hair. A lot of good hair. A lot of good hair. We said you started it. Why don't you keep going?

1:02:57Yeah, after Living Single ended, and I went into a depression because there wasn't work, wasn't working, hadn't quite figured out what else I could do. I auditioned here and there, not getting anything. And sometimes you reach a certain level and they go, well, she wouldn't take this job. I might have, or whatever that is. And so going into this space of what else can I do? What else? Because I don't know how to type. I can't cook. I can't sing. Didn't go to DeVry. I didn't go to DeVry. Take the computer classes. I dropped it out of college a hundred times. I don't know that I can make a living doing this.

1:03:32And so I moved over. It's like taking your gifts and talents and skills and going like, where else can they be placed? So if I'm a stand-up comedian, I can be a speaker. And so I immersed myself into what it means to become a speaker on stage, an impactful speaker, deciding what type of speaking I would do, taking some of my comedy bits and working them into inspiration so that I'm inspiring. And then, you know, eventually learning that I really wanted to help people transform their lives. So not just rah-rah, which is nothing wrong with that, or being encouraging or engaging, but to also go like, what can we do to transform our thinking, our mindset, our soul, and the work?

1:04:16So you're an educator. My mother wanted me to be a teacher. I was like, I don't want to be a teacher. And then I became a teacher. So that's what I've been doing. And that's why there's a, hopefully you feel a groundedness. I go like, I'm sorry that these other things, while I can fight the powers that be, I can also be the power of my own choosing. Right? So that's what I'm doing for now. Color Farm Media. That's my company. I started it 10 years ago with my partner, Ben Arnon. We met at the 2008 DNC convention night. He was a delegate for your husband, Mr. Obama. And I was a delegate for Hillary.

1:05:09I was Hillary Clinton's most traveled surrogate. The other side. The other side. I was wondering if you were going to come out and tell. The other side. We like her. You know, the funny thing, it made me a better voter all over to understand it. you know, how it happens. And up until that point, I hadn't. What made you get involved in politics? I mean, a lot of people run, okay. Poverty. Say that a little bit louder. Poverty. Poverty. You talk about hard times. It's real. Anyway, we started the company. We get a call from John Lewis's office. We heard that you have a production company. Would you like to do a documentary on the congressman?

1:05:49I said, I'd sweep his floors. I don't care what he needs me to do. And through that avenue came our first opportunity as a company, John Lewis Kuttrebel. And then after that, we did a documentary about reparations, Evanston, Illinois, with Alderwoman Robin Ruth Simmons and Sheila Jackson Lee with HR 40 and all these things. And it just kept pushing us in places where I thought, look, this is not only opportunity, but we're telling history. We're getting an opportunity to do that. But I think ultimately we're starting to realize that this world may not change as fast as we need to. And we need to find a different avenue.

1:06:30And we're seeking other borders. Well, and, you know, I listen to that and I think, well, maybe that's also where the tears are coming from. Because it's like to go from the power that your characters in Living Single had in the world. Right. And I remember I heard in an interview that you were like, well, I was Maxine Shaw, but I wasn't a lawyer. I didn't go to law school, you know, but you were you all were showing so many of us because I was a lawyer at the time. By the time. We're very much so. And Living Single was out. I was like a first, second year associate at a corporate law firm. So I was living that.

1:07:22You were also a dean, too. I was an associate dean at the University of Chicago when that was going on. So there were, you know. We didn't need to lift your sights. But you know, others. But making us visible. Yeah, because that character hadn't existed before. We had Felicia Vershaugh. But not in a comedy and this kind of, you know. And it was a different strength. It was definitely a different strength. I mean, you were single. You were sexual. You were, you know, you were brash. You were annoying. Yes. You were, you know, all of that. Right? No. She was. You know. Unapologetic. Black women had to be nice or kind or, you know, Maxine was like an unapologetic.

1:08:06I'm going to do what I want to do. You know, which was reflective of what a lot of us had to be in order to be in those spaces. And you were changing lives then. And both of you all are still doing that today and have managed to maintain yourselves and your presence and still think creatively and powerfully about how to be impactful in the world.

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1:09:58From Acorns, Mighty Oaks do grow. Investing doesn't have to be complicated. Acorns makes it easy to invest for your future, plan for tomorrow, and spend smarter today. Paid non-client endorsement, compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisor slash LLC and SCC Registered Investment Advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com slash IMO. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Indeed. One skill that has helped me over my years is adaptability. You know, I started out as a college basketball player and was fortunate enough to get drafted.

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1:17:14Well, speaking of being impactful, IMO is all about having our listeners submit a question. And we have a question from a listener that I think would be ideal for the two of you to help us answer. And it comes from Amanda in Tucson, Arizona. She's from AZ. Hey, Lala. Okay. Home state. Hi, I'm Amanda. Thank you so much for taking my question. As a woman in my mid-40s. Okay, I'm 45. I'm struggling with the concept of time. I want to do so much in this world, but it feels like time is flying by. And unfortunately, you can't just snap your fingers and have all your dreams come true. So how do you handle this nagging feeling that you're running out of time and that your life might not mean as much as you want it to?

1:18:04Similarly, how do you know that you're doing enough, that you're making enough of a difference while you're here? Thank you. I love you both. It's almost as if she was sitting right there. It's true. We're going to need a cocktail. Oh, man. rewind this episode and... Existential dread. It has throughout your life. You're going to have it, I believe. And I also believe that as a story in my, as a character in my own story, I keep feeling that I am coming of age all the time. I hear you. Waiting to grow up. Yeah. Like, yeah, this is it. They make story after story after people who come to this thing and realize, wait a minute.

1:18:49I gotta get it. I can feel that tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. And if I don't, I won't be able, I mean, I won't be able, I'll regret too much. And I think that for me, I see that in every, in so many stories, like everything all at once, everything everywhere at once. You see that in, shoot, death of a salesman. He's sitting up there and wondering what did I do with my life? So I'd like to say to Amanda, Amanda, you're right where you need to be if you're there. Because that means that if you're thinking that way, that you must be making an impact. People who don't make impact don't think that way.

1:19:28And so I'm hoping that you're looking at the ways that you might have made impact. And I do believe that in a way you are right. Times passing by, you're probably doing better than you think. Ditto. Next question. I'm just going to say, so many things that you touched on. same things I would say. First of all, I think it's a noble question. I think there's a nobility and a courage in even asking that. How do I know? I think she said she has a nagging feeling. How do you know that this is enough? And I think also because she's asking that question means that there is more to be experienced. She's willing and allowing something to come through.

1:20:09And I always say that everything you want wants you back. Everything you want wants you back. And because she wants it, it wants her to fulfill, to step into it. And I think a lot of times the things that we want, we're so busy living life and trying to keep up and looking at other folks that we don't even stop to notice those things that have already mattered to us, already been meaningful, already been impactful. So instead of looking all out there to look within, so slow down and look in and get quiet and go like, what do I really want to do? What happens when I show up and do this and this and this?

1:20:52What is the impact on people? And how can I just keep doing more of that? It may not even be something new. It's something that she's obviously already doing. And I always call it the sort of the pebble in the pond. You know, we think that has to be a big impact. The pebble creates all those ripples. So allow yourself to be that pebble in the pond. And the impact sometimes, you know, you talked about fame and being famous and people think that they want that. But I think what people really want is to be significant and to be meaningful. And sometimes it's your kids that are watching. It's your nieces and nephews that are watching.

1:21:28And the impact that you've created for them is enough to create more of the ripple. And so she may not stand on stages like we all have, but she's created an impact knowing that I said a word to someone and that made them think differently. And then they went and changed their life. And just to allow that to allow is my word. Just allow it to unfold. You want to add a brief thing in there? Because I'm just summing up. You've got something to bring it on home. No, no, no. I'm summing it up. So know that you're enough. Yeah. You know that you're enough. That's one thing. And this one's really good that I'm going to take away is slow down to speed up because we use that on the court.

1:22:11Oh, yes. We use that on the court. Slow down to speed up. Don't you have to train and stretch the muscle and get it ready so that then you can sprint? Or go fast to go slow and go slow to go fast. It's just change your pace and realize that there's some positivity there. And then the final thing you said, Kim, was a little is really a lot. A little can be a lot. It can be a lot. If you're fortunate enough to be able to do something great, beautiful. But that doesn't mean that if you do something little, it's insignificant. For sure. Yeah. That's how I feel. Thank you. Some of the moments I remember most as First Lady, it wasn't the cover of a magazine or the speech that I gave.

1:22:55It was usually a conversation that I had in a photo line with a kid that was shy that nobody saw. And that you could, with a hug and a couple of words and a, like, I see you. You see them walk to you one way and walk away a totally different person. You could see it. And it would be like, if I could do that every day and nobody's looking. And, you know, that's when I felt like I had an impact, you know? Sounds to me like you're talking about doing less but being more. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know what's been impactful? Having the two of you here. Hey. All right now. All right now. Wait, but before, you know, my brother's in always wrap-up mode.

1:23:42But I do want to find out, what are y 'all doing? See, this is— When is your birthday? I know she's a Capricorn. What are you— It's April 21st. Oh, you're a Taurus. He's a Taurus. I'm with the Taurus. I get it. Like, come on. All right, all this talking now. I know, right. But there's a time limit, and we have other things to do. We don't want to overuse your time. But I do want to know, what are you reading and watching now? Reality TV? Is sci-fi a thing for you guys? what's your guilty cultural pleasure? I'm not trying to kiss the ring, but later dater, I love that show. Aspirational. Aspirational.

1:24:33The women are beautiful. The guys got their hookups. I love that show. I don't watch a lot of what I would call the negative. I've done enough reality shows to know that there's nothing real about it. It's orchestrated and structured a way for you to have certain reactions. I know. He's looking at me like— I've done a few. It was like, you know, you live in a house for two weeks with Dennis Rodman. The surreal life. The surreal life. Also a tourist, by the way. Wow. He's the sweetest man. Oh, he's darling. He's a doll baby. But anyway, so not that, but later daters. Love it. Are you doing more seasons since I'm here?

1:25:09We're working on one. It's up to the powers that be. Yeah, right. It's got to come through it. Actually, I just work so much, I wish I could say. Same here. I've gotten a chance to see Sinners four to five times. Oh, dad. Yeah. And I'm like that. Like, I went to go see MJ eight times. Like, I'll see something over and over again as if you could digest it and become it. But no, I have to do more to, like, just pay attention. I'd like to read more. This has been a real treat. A real treat. A dream of a lifetime. and frankly, so grateful for all the work that you do in the world. And more importantly, putting something like this out so we can meet you in this way is huge.

1:25:52It kind of lifts the veil. And that's beautiful. It's been an honor, a delight, revealing, easy. Yeah. And just kind of what I expected would happen. So siblings can get along and also discover things about each other they didn't know, which is freaky. You know? Love that. You know? Well, so proud of it. And that you can get along well enough to want to play in this game. I can. Can you imagine? Good enough. I could do this with my brother. But just show it. It can't happen. It can. So these are, you know, goals. Right. It's happening right now. It's happening right now. Well, we're proud of you all.

1:26:26You two. Thank you. And the entire cast. So please send everyone our love. Congratulations on all the ways that you both are becoming, continuing to become. It has been a treat. Y 'all are some funny, smart women. and more to come. Just keep doing some stuff. We'll do this again. Let's, let's, let's, let's. With different hair next time. That's right. Hi, Mom. Different hair. Hey, next time. Yeah.

1:27:16Hey there, it's Michelle and Craig. On our IMO podcast, we've brought in some incredible guests to answer your burning questions and share our opinions about the things that matter to all of us. Like what success looks like in different families with Glennon Doyle, why we all need to learn how to say no with Taraji P. Henson, and how failure can actually make you better in your career with our friend Kiki Palmer. We hope you'll all listen in every week. And did you know that you can hear the show on Amazon Music? Just open the Amazon Music app and search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson today.