Come Back for Greatness with Allyson and Wes Felix

24:52He had a liver virus where it was clear that he was not going to be able to continue. And so I think everything was... Not in life. Yes, yes. Okay. I would live. Continue on in the sports. Something out there putting death on me. But it was kind of this moment that it just aligned. And you actually made a proposal. I think he put a proposal together to our parents around representing me. And to you. And I called her Miss Felix. Were you still in college then? I was a couple of years out of college. I had just been running for a few years. I was sponsored by Nike and had the injury. And then she got her Miss Felix letter.

25:38So I guess the proposal was really great. But it was like this kind of natural next step. And I had all the confidence. Like for me, it was great because I felt like for the first time, like in my entire career, I could solely focus on the competition and the training and just say like, okay, you've got this other side. You know, I looked at her business and at the time she had like this sponsorship with Adidas and that was where like her income came from. But she had these outside sponsors and there were two of them. And one was Visa and one was Power Bar and like together it was a combined$35 ,000 a year.

26:18And so I looked at that and was like, that sounds crazy to me. Like my sister just won an Olympic silver medal. She's 18 years old. Like she's like the youngest Olympian on the team. She's the youngest sprint world champion in history. $35 ,000 doesn't, I didn't know what a lot was, but I knew$35 ,000 wasn't a lot.

26:38Craig Robinson:What do you think it was that, why do you think you were underpaid at that time? Because it is true. You were a phenom, but you were making$35 ,000 a year. I think probably a combination of things, but I was at a large agency. And I think I, well, I felt like I was lost in the cracks. I didn't feel like anybody was really fighting for me. I think in especially being a female, a Black woman, someone has to be out there really going hard for you. And I don't think I was showing up in rooms. I don't think that, I don't think I was really a factor in so much. I don't think anyone was really pushing for me.

27:20And so I think that all shifted when the person representing me also cared about me, you know, and cared about my well-being. And yeah, when that really shifted when we started working together. And it's hard because, you know, everything is about the Olympic games for us. That is our championship. That's the biggest thing. But it happens every four years. And the world only pays attention for those two weeks. And so all of your earning potential is really right there. But it's also the most, it's the event you have to be ready for. And so there's so much that goes into the training, the day in and day out.

28:00And we do have a professional circuit that we participate every year, but it's nothing like the Olympic Games. And so just the weight of that and the opportunity is small. The window is small of your earning potential. And so a lot goes into it. And I always say it's, for me, my race was a 221 seconds. And if you mess it up, you've got to wait another four years. And so it's not only the athletic pursuit of it, but the business side of it as well. It's like, how do we maximize this time that you don't know if you're going to go once or if you'll have multiple opportunities. So I think it's really difficult for Olympians.

28:46And then when you start to even get smaller for, you know, for Olympians of color, for women, you know, the opportunities are smaller. So it's been challenging through the years to really be able to get out there. And I always feel like for female athletes as well, is not only do you have to be extraordinary in what you do, but there's also this other thing where it feels like there's like the standard of beauty or there's, you know, you have to also be, you know, appealing in this certain way. And it, I think after a while, just becomes exhausting. You know, it's like you're constantly fighting to make it.

29:24And, you know, sometimes you feel like you are not yourself when you're trying to fit this version of like, you know, what are they looking for? How can I be that when it's not really who I am? And so I think it's really, you know, been a struggle. But I think definitely it was a turning point when we started working together. I felt like I could lean into more of myself and be able to honor that.

29:49Craig Robinson:I also want to just pitch She Runs the World, which is an amazing documentary. And I want to talk more about that. That really gives the audience a clear sense of who you both are. And, you know, character-wise as an athlete. So I want people to, because that's, I know it's done. I've seen it. And it's played at the Martha's Vineyard African American Film Festival. But I hope more people are going to get to see it. But be on the lookout for She Runs the World. And we'll talk more about that story. But you guys did something different to keep the light shining. Because we know Alice and Felix. We know you inside and out.

30:43Craig Robinson:So what do you think the difference was for you in sort of maintaining kind of a high level of presence and building an economic model that could sustain you? I think it really was eventually doing things like outside of the traditional sense. You know, I think a lot of stuff shifted for us when, you know, we started speaking out once we created our company and I was sponsored by Sage, our own company, it was like breaking outside of the mold of the way that things had always been done and understanding that that's okay and that's good. And I think it was also just being ourselves instead of trying to fit into this mold of what you think that they're looking for.

31:34Craig Robinson:Can we talk about what we're talking to? Yeah. Because you're killing it, winning medals, got big Nike sponsorship. You are the female athlete at Nike and they are making money off of you and you're killing it. And then this wonderful thing happens that turns out to not be a wonderful thing in sports. Can you talk a bit about it? Yeah. I started a family and I was really scared to do that. I know. Well, I waited first because I felt like I couldn't. I had seen my friends and And I had seen my teammates struggle. And so I felt like, okay, well, if I do enough, if I have enough medals, then that won't be me.

32:18And I waited. I had gone to four games. I had six gold medals. And I felt like I'm in the safe zone. And I start my family. And even before I disclosed my pregnancy to them, our negotiations began at an offer of 70 % less than what I was making before. and that just like that just shook me because it was like wow they don't even know and already this is in such a bad place and so my fear amplified and I started to train I started to hide my pregnancy and so I would train while it was dark I like I wanted to be a mother so badly I wanted all the you know the baby shower the bump pictures and my experience was just lonely isolating.

33:08I barely ever left the house. When I did, I was in big baggy clothing. And we were doing this because even when they offered the 70 % less, it wasn't on paper. And so there was - What was the basis of them low balling you? I think it was really, you know, I was older. You were getting older and they didn't think you could do it. Yeah. And I think they didn't think that they had to pay me to do it.

33:32Craig Robinson:You know, who else was going to pay me?

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37:37I found in representing Allison that people are afraid because I'm her brother. They dance around things. And I'll try to just tell them, I was like, you know, I understand that's my sister. And also, I'm not here as her brother. I'm here as her manager. And so, like, I need to understand what you're talking to. Say what you need to say, you know. And something that they said was it's just business. and also, you know, she is getting older.

38:06Craig Robinson:And how old were you at the time? Was I? Like 32. Yeah. Yeah, 32. Yeah. She's getting older and, you know, and as conversations went on and it got a bit more heated and truth came out a little bit more, something else they said that I found like unbelievably just offensive was, well, we've paid her a lot of money over the years. And when I remember - She's had enough. When the comment came out, and you're kind of looking at a white man telling you, his exact words were, well, she's made a lot of money with us. I hope she's saved some. And my comment was, and you've made much more money off of her than she's made off of you.

38:55and as we went through the negotiations, what became really, really clear to me was that this was just because they believed they could. It was because they could. And there's the parts of that that are ugly and horrible. There's the parts of that that are just business and you don't have to be amazing, great people to do business. It would obviously be better if you were, but you don't have to be. And I think what they never thought could happen is what did happen.

39:33Craig Robinson:Which is? They never thought that we would actually stand up to them and that Allison would sit down and... Yeah, wrote a New York Times op-ed sharing what was going on. We had turned our attention away from the financial part of it and asked for maternal protections, which simply meant the contracts are performance-based. And so they're created so that if you go to the Olympics or World Championships, you get a bonus. And if you don't, you get a reduction. But if you have a baby or if you've just given birth, there is nothing to protect you. So I was simply asking for time to be able to recover after childbirth and not be further financially penalized.

40:13And at first, they said yes. And I was like, okay, then we can move forward. And when the contract came back, there was no mention of maternity, no pregnancy. And what we learned was that they were not willing to set that precedent for everyone. They were willing to give it to me, but not for everyone. And so for me, that was just, this happened over a course of time. I ended up giving birth to my daughter. And there was just, to me, it just felt like unacceptable. You know, it just felt like I couldn't stand by on that. So I wrote that New York Times op-ed. shared what so many women before me had also, who were under NDAs, had gone through.

40:55And yeah, shared my truth. And I think it was about two and a half weeks after that op-ed came out, that Nike changed their policy along with many other companies today offering 18 months of maternal protection. And yeah, but terrifying, you know, really, really scary. I'm thinking back to something you said earlier about your parents being of service to everyone. That was your opportunity to be of service to everyone. Because you could have taken your money in. You could have just said, okay, I'm hooked up. Like a lot of people do. And so kudos to you. At any point in time during that whole process, did your passion for the sport change?

41:43change? Like, did you feel like, oh, I'll show, I'm not, I'm through with this? I feel like I felt like I had a lot to prove after that. You know, it was almost like, in going through that, I knew I wasn't done. And I hated that, you know, I felt like they thought I was through. That now I was a mother, you know, I needed to be on to something else. I hated that I felt like I was being forced in this narrative that I did not connect with, You know, I knew that I still could make it back to the Olympics. I knew that I could still be the present mother that I wanted to be. And so the idea that I could not, I felt like I couldn't make my own decision, that motivated me to say like, well, I want to show, you know, the world that this is a possibility.

42:32And also, I want to show my daughter that, you know, when it's her time to do whatever, that you can absolutely do the things that the convictions of your heart. and that you can do it fully, you know, in all the ways. And so that was the big shift that I felt.

42:49Craig Robinson:Instead of walking away from the sport, you walked away from Nike. I walked away from Nike and knew that I wasn't done. And Wes and I, you know, always figuring it out, figuring out what was next. We thought, you know, okay, we've got to find a new sponsor. And that was the task. But as we did a really deep dive in the industry, and Wes, I think really going into big brother mode, he was like, I just think that we should do this ourselves. And I'm like, well, what exactly does that mean? You know, I had just had a baby, you know, all these things are happening in the world. And he said, you know, I think that we should, you know, build a shoe company.

43:30And that just felt also so big, just coming from where we come from. Like, I didn't see the path to that. But the more that I sat with it, I understood what he was saying. It was like, instead of begging these big brands to do the right thing, to build the thing differently, we could do it. And even though it was very ambitious, we did that and we learned that shoes were not being made for women. And that took time to figure out what that meant because we've all been to the shoe store and the women's side. And I'm like, no, there's shoes. But as we unpacked it, we learned, you know, a shoe is just made off of a lass, which is a mold of a foot.

44:10And it's the mold of a man's foot used to make women's sneakers. And I had no idea of being a runner that I was running literally in men's shoes. And when we figured that out, it was like, wow, you know, we have this opportunity. You know, we can, we're absolutely where we're supposed to be and we can do things differently. And we can also see and celebrate women in a holistic way that we didn't feel like was being done. And I think, you know, when you've really given your life to something for so long and to feel so discarded, it was very painful. And so it was picking up the pieces. And to me, you know, to be able to make it back to the Olympics, to do it, you know, wearing our shoes was incredible.

44:54and also in front of my daughter, you know, and really getting to, you know, one day fully be able to tell her, you know, what all that means. I think it was really a full circle experience. Also, it was COVID year. Yeah, it was a COVID year. So you also, it was so different too. Like first games we were not. Yeah.

45:14Craig Robinson:Well, you skipped over the part that your pregnancy was not uneventful, you know, which is, you know, the other powerful thing to watch in She Runs the World is just your physical stamina and your comeback because you had preeclampsia. I did. And you had a C-section. Yeah. You gave birth early. So Cammie was premature in those days watching you and your husband go back and forth to that NICU and that New Year's Eve when you could bring her home. Yeah. I just, ugh. Yeah, it was heartbreaking, you know? And I think even more so, like, I wasn't, I didn't realize that that was not an uncommon experience, that so many Black women have gone through that, and so many don't get to have that experience of walking out of the hospital with their family.

46:11And so that shifted my life, you know? I just felt like we have to be doing more. There's no way that we can continue down this path. For it to be more dangerous for me to give birth than it was for my mother, I mean, that just doesn't make sense. And something like 80 % of deaths and complications of women of color are preventable. And so that whole experience, I think it gave me just that push that I needed to be able to speak out and to be able to do things I never would have imagined because that's so far from what makes me feel comfortable. But it's necessary because, you know, Black women are dying giving birth today in our country.

46:55Craig Robinson:Well, you were living out the full experience of the devaluation of women and Black women through this sport and through in the world. I mean, Wes, like you said, women are, a lot of women we feel beaten down because there's so little investment in a woman's life. And to see it in this contract negotiation where they essentially say, you're done. We're through with you. There are a lot of male athletes that get legacy deals where they are done, but the men around the table still see the value that they bring, which is how, that's the other reason how I think. They're making more money. So the shoe situation, it's like our health.

47:48Craig Robinson:We're not even told about the dangers of giving birth. Studies aren't being done. Outrage isn't happening. We're doing the most important thing, which is bringing life into the world. And nobody tells us about preeclampsia or morning sickness or what it does to our bodies. And now companies want to penalize female athletes in a pro-life world where we care so much about life, you know, but we don't care about the mother who's giving birth. That's, you know, the full power of your story because there's so many. You've lived out the complete disparity in health among women, black women, the economic disparity that we face as being a world-class athlete, an American hero.

48:53Craig Robinson:Thank you so much. Well, you know, we have a listener question, but before we get to the listener question, I understand that you may have some news for us. I don't know if it's news, but I think one thing, there's a thought that keeps coming back to me and I've been thinking about honoring it. And it's just really the idea, a lot of what we've been talking about as far as women. And I think when we get to a certain age, that sometimes we are told that our life should look a certain way. And so I've had this feeling of, do I want to come to LA? Do I want to try one more time to make an Olympic team?

49:39And I keep having the scary feeling of, it feels like something I want to do. and the push to honor that. And not because I feel like I need to or that it's something around performance. But the feeling that I have is really around the narrative for women. And this idea of, can we have ambition after achievement? Can we, what if there is more? And I think I'm deeply curious if I could do it. I think it's really big and it's super, it's a big goal. But it excites me and it scares me. And I think my first thought was, okay, this is something that I really want to hold on to and do in private. But I think that that also makes me feel like it's probably the right thing because - It's a little scary.

50:36It's a little scary. And I think maybe it's something that other women can relate to.

50:40Craig Robinson:If there's anybody who should feel like when it comes to her profession, her sport, her life, who has nothing to prove. It's you. You don't have anything to prove. You don't need this. But if it's something you want, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's not for them. It's for Cammy. It's for all the Kammies that come after, all the women who were told no, who stopped when they were told no, all the women who will continue to be told no. And how old are you now? I'm 40. You're 40. You're a baby. I'm 62. And you're absolutely right. Those bars were false. Those boxes that they put us in aren't true. They've never been true.

51:40Craig Robinson:but because the world is designed for men, they create the boxes they put us in. Even though there's something in you that says, I might be able to do, I have it in me. I am not who you say I am. I am not the box that you put me in. We all need a little bit of that. I think it would be a powerful statement and that's what hard things are. Hard things are, and I learned this from my husband because I'm probably, I'm not as shy as you, but I'm inclined to step back from a thing and go, why would you do that? It seems like, you know, but I've got this partner who's like, why not? You know, if not us, then who, you know?

52:31Craig Robinson:So that's all it is. It's just saying yes. And then turning your back to what everybody else has to say because the journey is going to require a lot of work and a lot of focus that you already know how to do. And I would just narrow in on the beauty of that process and let it be whatever it's going to be. I just think the process of the effort is powerful. You know, you want the goal. You don't want to lose. And that's great. Now she's getting into my lane. She's getting into my lane. as the coach at the table. Yes. Go see coach. I would, I suspect there's a little competition-aholic still left over in you.

53:17And I would just be, okay, when does this training start?

53:21Craig Robinson:Yeah. I mean, LeBron is still playing. That's right. You know? Let's put the team together to make this successful. Yeah. Who's coaching? Who's training? Who's setting the schedule? I mean, I've got goosebumps. I'm excited for you. Well, I think it's also knowing that I'm okay if this ends with me not making it. It's the question of, is it possible? Well, I'm not sure, but I'm deeply curious. And I think just knowing that you can go for something even at a certain age, that that doesn't have to be a limit. It doesn't have to be something that turns you away. And not to poo-poo all of the warm stuff we're talking about, a lot of athletes don't take it to the next level because they're afraid that they might not make it.

54:21I'm trying to teach our high school kids that I'm coaching right now, the beauty of the journey is in the process and the journey itself. self. And that never goes away. Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. Yeah. I think failure or failure, you know, it's a part of it. I feel like I've learned so much more from the things that didn't go the way that I had thought they were supposed to go. And there's so much to be learned. And so there is something that excites me of what will I learn in this process, you know, and what is there, what is for me, you know, it may not look maybe like the goal that I have set before, But I think that there is something powerful there.

55:14Speaking of helping folks, this is a perfect time for our question. Yes. From Ashley in Long Beach.

55:22Craig Robinson:When you consider a new venture, what signals tell you it's time to pivot? and what criteria help you decide what to say yes to and what to lovingly release when your time and energy are finite. For those of us with many callings and limited capacity, how do we pursue the next thing without sacrificing impact or our well-being? It's a good question because I feel like it's what I've been grappling with as well. I know one place I like to start with is asking myself, like, is there an impact here? Like, do I have purpose here? Do I have something to give instead of, you know, just thinking purely about, you know, things that are practical.

56:05And so I think that if there is something that's bigger than yourself also there, that, you know, that's a good indication that you're where you're supposed to be. So that's my first kind of thoughts. Well, and I, especially Ashley as a woman,

56:27Craig Robinson:like, guess what? We don't, we can do stuff just for us. Yeah. You know, I mean, because I'm just listening and it's like, guess what? You don't have to have a bigger purpose. LeBron doesn't have a bigger purpose. Tom Brady didn't have, doesn't have, didn't have a bigger purpose. I mean, men decide they want to do it. They do it regardless of whether their family wants it or anybody wants it. Sometimes it's grounded. And what does your heart tell you you want? And I think as women, it's okay for us to look at what we want and to start from that place of how does this make me feel? What am I getting out of it?

57:14Craig Robinson:You know, and it's okay to start there as a woman. You know, we don't have to have a bigger purpose. You, your goal, that's a lot of things that we will do around the table will impact other people. And that's for all of us, as people who grew up with service in our minds, that's always gonna be there. You know, so it's not even like you gotta put that in your head or, you know, if Ashley doesn't have to put that in her head because it's already there. But I think it's okay to be driven by the thing that you care about. You know, I tell young people, if you don't know what you want to be, then start thinking about what you like, you know, what you enjoy, what, if you're going to do something really well, you've got to have some level of excitement to get up every day and train for the next several years to qualify for the Olympics.

58:07Craig Robinson:You, you, Allison, have to want to get up every day because nobody's going to be watching the process. Just like you said, that's the curse of the Olympic athlete. You train in the dark, you leave in the dark, and there's one meet. There's one chance. That's all it is. It's how many seconds? Yeah, 21 and 22 inch meters. And then everything else, you know, people may not care. You may not get anything afterwards. So it's all about what you want. And I think for Ashley and for anyone out there making choices, I think it's perfectly fine to start with what will bring me joy? What will get me out of bed?

58:53And if the thing I'm doing right now isn't doing that, then let me take some time to figure that out.

59:00Craig Robinson:And I think young people have to understand that. You know, in life, you don't pick a one thing oftentimes and do it forever. The world isn't even designed like that anymore. Gone are the days when our grandparents retired from 35 years and got the gold watch. Corporations don't show that kind of loyalty to people as we saw with Nike. So you have to be wired to have some level of flexibility to analyze where am I now? Is it time for me to move on? And some of that's going to come from what's happening day to day. Is there no longer a path, way for you that makes you excited in what you're doing?

59:43Craig Robinson:You know, there may not be the support in your current activity that gives you the signal that maybe it's time for you to do something else. So there are many cues in life, but the ability to remain flexible, you know, and to be nimble. You know, just even having a nimble mind and constantly thinking about your situation and what's coming next. I think that also helps to prepare you and to give you the clues to whether it's time to do something else. This has been great. You know, it has been. It's like talking to a mirror image. It's really wild. Without the medals. and the shoe company. A few other things.

1:00:35I think you're doing okay. But this is exciting.

1:00:43Craig Robinson:I hope you document the journey. I know you might want to do it in quiet, but I think the way you train, the way you mentally prepare, how you move through life, you know, just as in She Runs the World. That is a powerful way to tell a story. Yeah, it is a story that I hope people can connect with and I hope go through it with me. Yeah. Yeah, I will definitely want to bring everyone in. Well, we're going to be there with you. We support you, cheer you both on. Please keep us in mind. And if you want to come back on to talk about the journey as you're going through it. If you want to, you know, if you want to scream, yell, shout, you know, we would, we welcome you back any, any time.

1:01:39Craig Robinson:Thank you so much. And I know nothing about track, but I am a good cheerleader. So strong coach. Yeah, a coach at all. You get that early morning and you just don't feel it. Just, just give us a call. I appreciate that. I will. How does it feel like telling someone outside of... You say that. She just told her mom yesterday. Oh, wow. This is really working through it. It feels good. It feels like it's something I'm supposed to do. Yeah. No matter how it ends up. Good. I think, Craig, what you said, it's the journey. And it's one I'm excited to take. I'm a little scared. But I think that... Well, I hope that it's one that other people also can understand that, you know, we might be doing different things, but it's the same.

1:02:34Absolutely. Absolutely.

1:02:56Thank you.