Fight For Your Dream Job with Victoria Monét

29:57Yes. That's a really, really great question. I feel maybe the answer is a lot of patience and understanding and empathy. It's almost like when I'm asking him to watch Hazel for a career move, I have to be able to have that same grace. It's not a one-way street. So if he wants to make a move or just be outside for a night and he wants to go out, I have to have that grace and say, yes, I'll watch her, even though I know he may be outside and meet somebody else. It's like all of those things are in consideration, but it just really takes a lot of patience and grace, prayer, great communication, making sure that you are considerate of how you're saying something versus what you're saying.

30:44And I honestly, I want to ask him how he does it as well, because it is not, I'm seeing so much chaos in our community regarding children and the separation of parents. And we all know that it's quite normal these days for things not to last. So how is it that our community can better navigate those hard moments? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's interesting you said you want to ask him how he does it. Yeah. Because it sounds, before you said that, I was thinking that you guys got together, had a meeting and said, okay, here are the things that we need to go over to make this work. But it sounds like this was more trial and error or?

31:29Well, we did say that we were going to stay offline on anything that would negatively affect either of our images and that Hazel could eventually read and see. So that was the main agreement. But beyond that, the daily back and forth, I feel like he should probably have a platform to speak on it. Because I know dads around the world are going through this and they don't know how to balance their emotions or their maybe potential rage and disappointment that the relationship didn't work out. Or jealousy or financial burdens. And just being single parents on the other end, you know, because when they have the child assuming and hopefully they're involved.

32:22Yes. There are going to be huge moments where they're operating as a single dad. Right. You know, which we, you know, a lot of women understand that balance. But where men who, when they are able to talk about those challenges and how are they finding that balance, men don't talk about that. Yeah.

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38:06So when Hazel comes to you and says, hey, mom, I want to be a performer. She has said that. Already. Yes. Oh, my God. Well, she's already done some voiceover work on the book. Yes, yes. And she also in 2024, along with my first Grammy nominations as an artist, she became the youngest Grammy nominee in history. So it's like God is really just nailing in the idea that everything that you wanted is tenfold with your child by your side. And you're doing things that you're supposed to do and making a difference in her life. And you will be rewarded in that way. Well, and your current project, your book.

38:51Yes. Everywhere you are. Yes. Tell us about the motivation behind writing this book. We've got a copy of it. Got a copy of the book right here. Yes. So the inspiration really is to combat children with separation anxiety and parents with parent guilt who have to balance work and a family life. And I feel like that's about everybody. Yep. You know? I was reading something somewhere where it was explaining why children enjoy peekaboo as children. It's because when you disappear, they actually view you as gone. So it's like you're doing this magic trick, like you're disappearing and coming back. So I started to think about how, well, if I'm actually gone, what is she thinking?

39:37And for the hours, eight hours a day that I'm working or any parent is working, what does she feel? So I just wanted to make something tangible that a parent can read or an uncle or an aunt can read that doesn't live in town. How do you combat your guilt? Sometimes. Because I'm just assuming you have it because we all do. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I think one, explaining things to her helps me. Because aren't kids really smart? They understand a lot more than sometimes we give them credit for. And a lot of times when parents say to their child, they're going to work, but they're doing it for the child.

40:23My approach is I'm doing this for you and for me so that she knows mommy has dreams and she has her own identity too. And she can be proud to know that none of that was given up on because of her existence. Because sometimes the story goes that we say, I gave up everything for you. Yeah. And that, although it's sound, it's, yeah, it pressurizes the love and the capacity. And so the child feels guilty instead, and the parent feels resentful to their motherhood or fatherhood. And so I just wanted to change that narrative a bit and say, you know what, I have dreams and I'm going to go pursue them.

41:03And everything that I get from these, this pursuit, you will benefit from. But it's also my dream. And I won't want to give up on that for me. And when you get a dream, I don't want you to give up on that for you. And amazingly, they understand. How do you get the sense that Hazel gets it? And I know it's, you know, she's going to go through her phases, but as a mom, you know her and you know what she's understanding and what she isn't. I think that it came down to her reaction. when I leave and her reaction when I get back is really, really helpful. So at the beginning, it was lots of tears and that separation is so difficult.

41:47Like that first day of school, you're like, I sat in the car that day and I was like, am I doing the right thing? She doesn't technically need school right now because like, maybe I'll just wait till she, and she actually is in kindergarten. She was two at the time, but I needed her to have some social skills because She was a pandemic baby. So she was like, I don't like anybody with my kids. So I needed her to be around more. You're like, we need to break this now. Yes. Yeah, it was important to do. You need some friends, little two-year-old. Please. Y 'all go have your conversations. But that first day, I was like, I don't know if this is right.

42:23It felt so heavy. And then she realizes that she's autonomous and independent. And she can have a great day, whether or not mommy's smiling in her face or whether or not mommy gives her a lollipop, she can create it on her own. So knowing that she has that confidence was helpful to know that it's okay to give some distance and come back, give some opportunity to be missed and come back. And create some emotional resilience. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. We are grateful to you and Hazel. Thank you. For making it happen. That's right. Thank you. And this is, you know, on IMO, we have a question from one of our listeners.

43:03And so this is a perfect time to pivot to that. And our question today is from Lily, who lives in Virginia. Hey, Lily. Lily. Hi, Michelle and Craig. I'm in my late 20s and have been doing something I absolutely love since I had my first job at age 16, teaching dance. I have taught dance every year since and still love it just as much. I did all my undergrad projects on dance, and after COVID, I earned my master's in dance education. I'm now at my first full-time job at a nonprofit doing what I love every day, creating curricula and teaching dance. I've been here for just over two years. As much as I love this work, I'm also extremely stressed out and anxious.

43:46My job has begun to take such a mental and emotional toll on me that I dread meeting new people because I know the question, what do you do, will come up. For some reason, I now hate telling people about my work because it stresses me out all over again. When I'm not there, I try my hardest not to think about it. I have an amazing therapist that I've been working on this with for quite a while, but I'm still confused about why I dread talking about the job I've always felt so passionately for. How normal is this? Does this just mean that I'm burnt out? Or is this a sign that this work is no longer for me?

44:21Have you ever felt this worn out by your work? And if so, how did you manage to keep going? Thank you. Now, we have not had a question so perfect for our guest than this one. Yes, I understand it completely, Lily. I would say, I feel like there's a couple layers to this question. One is the anticipation of the question, what do you do? And the answer being a description of your job versus the purpose of your job. So if the question comes, I would maybe reframe the answer as I help people manifest their true destiny. I help people perfect their dream and their craft. I help people get better. Instead of saying, I am a dance teacher, like that title, just maybe reframing that.

45:20And then the other layer, I think, to the question is two things can be true at once. You can love what you do, but it can also be really hard and draining. You can love the person you're with, but they can also get on your nerves. So it's okay to change what you do if that's what you feel like you should do and take some space away from it. I think if saying you're a dance teacher doesn't feel good right now, and it's been since you're 16, that's okay to try something else because your 16-year-old dream, you've been through so many versions of yourself since then. So it's okay not to have the exact same vision for yourself.

46:05And maybe then dance teaching can become something you do as an extracurricular activity versus your sole job or sole income. So it's possible to have a bit of a plot twist. And then if it's still something, if it's something that you miss, you may return. Life can take you through so many twists and turns and different journeys. And maybe sometimes it could be your gut telling you, hey, let's try something else for a little bit. And that's completely okay. Your job doesn't have to be your identity forever. I will never forget the images and the stories that came out during and after Hurricane Katrina.

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48:19I highly recommend checking it out. Find it wherever you get your podcast and start listening today. This episode of IMO is brought to you in part by understood.org. If you're a parent of a child with ADHD, dyslexia, or any learning difference, and especially if you're navigating special education as a parent of color, you know it can feel like a maze. There's a podcast from understood.org called Opportunity Gap that's here to help. It's hosted by Julian Saavedra. And in every episode, he talks with special ed teachers, child psychologists, and other experts. They break down things like how to navigate the IEP process, what accommodations your child is entitled to, and how to build a strong relationship with your child's teachers.

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50:50Sleep impacts everything, your mood, your focus, your health. And for me, investing in a Helix mattress has been one of the best things I've done for myself in a long time. If you don't trust me, you should trust the experts like Good Housekeeping and Forbes who have done the research for you. Like I said earlier, they are extending their Labor Day sale and our listeners can get 25 % off site-wide by going to helixsleep.com slash IMO. That's helixsleep.com slash IMO for 25 % off site-wide. And make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. Helixsleep.com slash IMO. You know, I relate to it as a songwriter as well, because when I started, I was an artist moving to LA and then I got a lot of success from songwriting.

51:49So everybody who met me was like, oh, the songwriter, the songwriter, the songwriter. And it wasn't until I did something else more than I did the other thing that they recognized me as that. Oh, the artist, the artist. It's like any job, if you meet somebody and they say, oh yeah, I'm, for example, a janitor, they're going to realize that that's what you are. But then until you become a teacher and your teaching outweighs the time that you spend as a janitor, then they will identify you as a teacher. So it just becomes what you spend most of your time doing. And that can always change. You don't have to remain the same person that you introduce yourself as to anybody.

52:30Now, Victoria, did you ever, I mean, you were so focused on becoming an artist or a performer or whatever, however you want to label it. Were you ever embarrassed to say that's what you were or that's who you wanted to be? I wouldn't say embarrassed, but also, but more so, what is the word? It felt like an ambitious statement. like inside people may be like yeah okay oh so you didn't want to sound like you were bragging it's like my husband I want to be president of the United States it's like no you might want to keep that to yourself honey oh that's so nice you want to be president exactly that is that or like when someone's like I want to play basketball and I'm going to be the best basketball player ever and you're like okay I'm going to play in the NBA you're surrounded by I am surrounded by people who do that but I will say I will say to Lily's point, when, see, I'm so old, there was not the internet.

53:34So I didn't grow up wanting to be an NBA player. It sort of just developed. But even as I was heading in that direction, I never wanted to tell people I was a basketball player. So I understand. And why was that? Because I didn't want to be a pigeonholed in, oh, he's just a basketball player. Okay. Now, I don't know how many people have that feeling now because basketball players are making more money than most people. But at the time, I really felt self-conscious about basketball playing being my job. Did you feel like it was because the stigma around basketball players were that they weren't something else, like maybe not educated or not?

54:21That is exactly it. that is exactly it and and i had relatives in my family who thought that basketball playing was a waste of time too so they were like why'd you point to me when you said that because you're only relative in the room that's why she got nervous because she probably was thinking the same thing no uh but i had relatives and who would be like well is that all you do Oh. You know, and so I really, Dandy used to say that. Our paternal grandfather would never talk to me about sports. Oh, wow. Because he thought that the only thing he had to talk to us about was education and learning as a young Black man.

55:11And I saw him do this to my uncles. You know, he didn't meet them where they were. He wanted them to rise up to what his expectation of them was. And my parents didn't do that, but I felt that in society. So that it wasn't until I got drafted, or literally drafted, that I said, all right, I'm a basketball player. Like this was a real thing. Validated by that. So I was wondering if you ever had that in the music business. I feel like, yeah, it was just, it's a feeling of people projecting their own doubts onto you when you say something so grand. Because I do feel like some of your dreams, your biggest dreams should sound a bit scary.

55:56And then you manifest those things regardless, which I think a lot of us have. You know, maybe even Lily would have, you know, I'm going to be this amazing dance teacher. And people may have been like, okay, yeah, like that's kind of a creative job. Like maybe, you know, schooling is you should pick a different major, you know, something, you know. Yeah, they're picturing ahead how much money you could potentially make. That's true. And it's like. And people, a lot of traditional families, regular families who aren't in the arts or doing something that's considered nontraditional. And the arts still is considered a nontraditional way of life.

56:42people don't understand the profession they don't know that it is a profession yeah right they don't know how you can you know you just laid out a whole um you know sub industry within the music business that you know like you said you wanted to write but there are other jobs in the music profession producing and you'll name them because i don't know them working in the control room Controls and all that stuff. Nobody knows that. People know doctor and lawyer. Now you can be a day trader. I mean, some of the career titles are growing in people's minds. But the average mom and dad, the minute somebody says they want to go into theater or the arts or they want to be in music, the light goes off in the eye of the parent.

57:35And I wonder if Lily has experienced some of that because she's in a community or in a family of people where it's like a dancer. What's that? I don't understand that. So I don't even know. I don't know. I don't know what that means. Yeah. And if she's experienced any of that, imagine how hard it must be for her to summon up the energy to continue something when it gets hard. Right. Right. It's easy to quit on yourself when you naturally get burnt out. Yeah. If it's not something that everybody around you is saying, I get it. I get you being a doctor. Yeah. I understand the long hours. Boy, we're rooting for you, right?

58:15But you're in the hearts. You're dancing. You're acting. You're making music. I don't understand it. Yeah. It just seems like, and naturally so, parents or people around would just want to hear something that has a guarantee. Yes. And with art, there is, or even sports, it's like, well, you need a backup plan. It's always a plan B situation because you could get injured. It's like all the projections of the worst case scenario, but I would love for us to obsess over the best case scenario. Like, what if you are the best NBA player and what if you are the best dance teacher to ever live and you're able to provide scholarships and change people's lives with what they want to do and make healthier bodies by what you're doing because you're encouraging exercise through something that's more fun than running on a treadmill potentially.

59:05It's dance and performance. So it's tough because I think we're just all being protective of each other and creating those shields. And sometimes those come in the form of limited beliefs and ideas of what you could do. So - Have you ever experienced a burnout yourself? Because that's also something that I think people assume, oh, you're doing something you love. It's your passion. It's something you've always wanted your whole life. And it's this, you know, it's this fun thing. Yes. And so if you burn out, that must mean it's all wrong. Yeah. So I just wondered, you were doing the thing you've always loved.

59:45Yes. Have you experienced burnout? A hundred percent. And how did you handle it? Have you handled it? You know, it takes some fight. just as with anything you have to get through that storm to get to the rainbow every time and remember why it is that you're doing it and then again remind yourself of the gratitude that you should operate with because there are so many people that want to do what you do that can't so that'll help you a bit in that morning where you're just so exhausted and you want to stop or sleep in or give up in the long term, but making sure that you realize that every day is an opportunity.

1:00:30And even when it's hard, if you just show up, even if you don't, your score for that day is a C. Like you're not at your A game, but you showed up and you tried. That's how you get back on track when I'm experiencing a writer's block or I'm just not inspired. I just have to show up. And And sometimes I'm not showing up as my best self. But the fact that I showed up kind of, it's like training. It's that muscle strength and just it's exercising resilience and not depending on inspiration because inspiration fades. It's depending on muscle memory. Discipline and yes, and muscle memory. Specialism.

1:01:12Yeah. So just showing up. And that's the same thing we have to do in anything. in our friendship relationships, our personal relationships. Everything that we do will come with some types of hardships, but that's just to juxtapose the times when it does feel good. I'd say to Lily based on that is like, first of all, burnout is okay. And I think you said this too, Victoria, but I think young people who are pursuing non-traditional things, they should be aware that even if you're doing something you love, there will come a point in time when you may be burned out. Yes. The people at the top of their game, I'm sure Michael Jordan, I'm sure Steph Curry, I'm sure you name it, I'm sure Beyonce.

1:02:01Yeah. Everybody, even when they're at the top of their game, they get burned out. Right. But that doesn't necessarily mean that this isn't the path for you. It just means that you may... need to think about ways to nurture yourself, which you'll have to do in any career, in any profession, in any aspect of life, is to learn how to keep moving forward. So maybe Lily isn't, the burnout may not be a sign of anything other than - Just need a little rest. She's right. Maybe she needs a moment of rest, and maybe she wants to take a moment of rest before she takes full steps away from the thing that she loves.

1:02:46So there may be a process to this. She may want to try for a month or so, finding a way to reduce her schedule if she can. Working in nonprofit, as somebody who worked in nonprofit, you usually don't have that kind of flexibility because you're working with tight budgets and you're understaffed, you're working in tough communities. So, you know, that may be playing a role in her burnout is that she may be, you know, doing a dance class with 50 kids at a time. Yeah. Right. So she may have real legitimate reasons to be burned out because she's working hard, especially if she's working in underserved communities.

1:03:27That's right. So instead of walking away, maybe she wants to find a minute to take some time off. Yeah. And then see what that feels like, you know. She might need to give herself a minute to miss it before she makes a full-blown statement about this isn't for me. But she may go away for a week or a month and be happy with that and turn that in two months and three months. And as you said, it's okay if she looks up in six months or a year or even shorter and says, I think I need to step away for a bit longer. That's just the process of figuring yourself out, whether in career or in life. When I came out of law school, I went into a big corporate firm because I went to Harvard and had a lot of debt.

1:04:18And that's what you did. You became a big corporate lawyer, right? I was in there for two years, pretty miserable, not because of the place, but because the work was kind of soul crushing to me. Yeah. But I realized I hadn't tried anything else. And I left and I started working in city government and public service. And each job, while it paid less, was more interesting. You know, it had me in community. It had me working with people. So that year turned into two years. And then that job went from, you know, working for the deputy chief of staff to working in planning and development. And before you know it, I was away from law.

1:04:59I've never gone back. Right? Yeah. I mean, so sometimes it, but it helped that I stepped away for a minute. And maybe Lily wants to try that. Yeah. That's good advice. That's really great. Yeah, that's good advice. That leap of faith and bravery. Sometimes that will take you on your supposed path. Yeah. Yeah. And that's not to say, Lily, that what you feel like is your passion isn't your passion. Right? That's right. It's just be flexible enough. If you're burnt out, be flexible enough to try something else because you can always come back to your passion. And that's a great point. And Misha and I have both done the same thing.

1:05:45My mom used to joke, you all went to all these fancy schools and you end up making less and less money each job you take. Why, thank you. It's like, yeah, that's a good point, mom. That's a good point. But she never, she was always very supportive. I love that. But she said it sort of chuckling. Because it was true. Because it was very true. Yeah. Another pay cut, huh? Yeah. Mish did it a little more than I did. I went from Wall Street trader to assistant basketball coach. So everybody thought I was having a nervous breakdown. But I was really, I was doing what Lily was doing. I figured out, ah, this is my passion.

1:06:29I want to try it. And off to the races I went. So this is, you all have some good, I have some good notes here. You took notes. I took notes. I took notes. Because Lily, she had a lot of stuff going on here. But the first thing that I took down, Victoria, was what you said about talking about what you do, not what the job is. Yeah, I like that a lot. I like that. That was really good. That's, you know, I mean, it's not that she's ashamed of it, but help people understand. Yeah. That what what being a dance teacher is and does for young people, for old people, for the community. Yes. That's great advice, Lily.

1:07:17So I think you should you should really listen to that. And then Mish, you went straight for the Explore Your Why. That's her thing. We ought to get some t-shirts with Explore Your Why on it. Actually, yeah. Because that's really good. Okay, all right, team. T-shirts. Let me get one of those, please. And then just because folks don't understand your career doesn't mean that you're on the wrong track. And this will get back to Marianne Robinson-ism. Why are you worried about what everybody's thinking? But that's hard in this day and age. It was hard for us 50 years ago, right? But it's really hard for you all because of the social media.

1:08:04And everybody's rating everybody and liking everybody and talking about it. It's a barrage of grading. So you're trying to get good grades. That's what I say about these young people. They're trying to get good grades all the time. That's true. And Lily, you don't have to get a good grade if you know what you want to do. And if you know you're working hard, that's the best part of it. The process is the best part. Enjoy that. So that's what I gleaned from you two experts here. I love that. I just want to add too, because I'm reminded of my own path and what my dance teachers did for me. she changed how I felt about arriving at school how I felt about my body and how I should take care of my body she introduced the class to yoga and then I became a dance teacher I was I didn't mention why I was a bank teller I was also teaching dance at two different studios that part out yeah two different studios because we heard the bank teller part yeah so two different dance studios and I just saw one of my students, his name is Kida, dancing for Kendrick Lamar.

1:09:22Wow. He was six years old when I was teaching him and now he's on stage with Kendrick in a stadium. Oh, he did the Super Bowl? He did. He's on tour with him. Oh, wow. Him and SZA. So to see, sometimes it's re-inspiring to see the difference you can make in people's lives and just knowing, knowing even in the unknown that you are able to help and change someone's whole trajectory by what you're doing. So that's why just really using the, um, the purpose as the answer versus the actual job title. Yeah. Yeah. Probably be a helpful reminder. Yeah. Yeah. We just, uh, Lily stay encouraged. Yes. You know, and you're just in your twenties.

1:10:08and you have time to be so many different things. I just want Lily and all young people out there to know it just feels like as we get questions from young people, there's so much pressure to feel like they're supposed to have all the answers at a time when I'm 60 and I'm still like, I don't know nothing. So all I want are young listeners and the parents and friends of young people who are struggling with their why and feeling like they're off course when they've just started. Yeah. It's like, be easier on yourself and understand that there are many opportunities to recreate yourself and to keep growing, you're gonna have to.

1:10:53You know, that's the fun part of life is that there are many chapters to come and there's no right answer. So I want Lily to stay encouraged, but to take care of herself so she's feeling burnt out, find a way to get a break so that she can think clearly. Because what it is hard to do is make determinations, sensible determinations about what you want for your life when you're not at your best mental state. And that's true no matter what you do. You got to take care of your mental health. You got to take care of your physical health so that you have some clarity to figure out the next moves. Yeah.

1:11:34So. Brilliant. Thanks, Lily, from Virginia. Thank you, Lily. Good luck. Yes. And Victoria, thank you. Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much. You are a little wise one. Oh, thank you. You know, at this table, you're a baby. I'm sorry. Yeah. Even though you're grown and mature in the industry. You know, I like being a baby. I like being a baby. Hold on to it. Hold on. But you are a wise baby. Thank you so much. I mean, it has really been a pleasure just to hear what's going on inside that head of yours. Hazel is very lucky. Yes, she is. To have you. I really appreciate it. And to have your tribe, too.

1:12:15Yes, 100%. Because it sounds like it's a healthy group. Yeah, I agree. It's a healthy group. It's curated, and God did his thing, so I appreciate it. But we're going to keep an eye on you. You got any new music coming out? Anything we should know? Any T2 drop? T2 drop. I'm actually working on the next project right now. After the book tour, I am actually locking away in the studio. And the rest of the year is just music, music, music. So I'm excited about that. Well, we consider you a part of the IMO family. You and Hazel. Tell Hazel I say hey. I sure will. And her Chanel. And her Chanel. What did you call her?

1:12:53Her banel. Her banel. Hub Bunnell. Hub Bunnell. I wish you all the best. We're going to keep an eye on you. Thank you. Anytime you want to come on and, you know, throw down some more wisdom, we would love to have you. Thank you so much for having me. It was an honor to speak with you both. And keep representing. Keep showing up as a fabulous young woman, young mother, young professional.

1:13:37Hi, Gretchen, Craig Robinson, and my little sister Michelle here. We host a new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a few tips from you. You know, Gretchen, a lot of our listeners are going through some major life changes. What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of major life transitions? Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you. Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective. So consider questions like this. what activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me?

1:14:23Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else, but is not very important to me? If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose? And here's a question. Would I like to have more time in solitude, restorative solitude? Or would I like to have more time with friends? You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier. With greater self-knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values. In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get, and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition.

1:15:13For more great advice, search for Happier with Gretchen Rubin wherever you get your podcasts.