Forgiving Yourself with Mary J. Blige

12:06Craig Robinson:You know, it must have been good by the time you got to the third record.

12:10Mary J. Blige:It was just sitting there because Andre was always like, oh, so he was just watching. And I didn't know what that look was. I guess that look was, wow, you know. We got something here. We got something. Yeah. And my mom was just looking all proud. You know, we didn't know, you know. And I wasn't like excited because, you know, being famous was just really far fetched. It was something that we didn't think could happen to us. But it happened. But I wasn't like, oh, yeah, I'm going to get a deal. I just was like, yeah, this is what I do. I sing. This is what I do. No big deal. And you weren't nervous and nothing.

12:46Mary J. Blige:Nope. See, that's a skill to be able to be under that pressure.

12:51Craig Robinson:That's a Capricorn. Oh, here we go. Under pressure. Right. Under pressure. That would be a Capricorn.

13:06This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully. Mish, thinking back to when you picked up your first home, what was the biggest priority for you? For me, I was just laser focused on location. I needed to make sure I was central and close to family.

13:29Craig Robinson:Yeah, that was the same thing for us as well. I think when Barack and I bought our first home, we really only looked in one neighborhood. And that was Hyde Park on the south side of Chicago. It was down the street from where you and Janice and the kids lived. And that meant the world. So we didn't even look in neighborhoods that weren't close to family, where the girls would go to school, where we were working. So for us, location was key. I'm curious. If you were back in that position today, do you think your priorities would stay the same or has your perspective shifted a bit? That's a good question.

14:14Craig Robinson:Barack and I talk about this a lot. And we've come to learn that community and family support matters much more than I think we give it credit for. You know, sometimes, you know, we see young professionals, they, you know, prioritize living close to their job or taking the promotion. But as you grow your family, we found that just having people around that you can count on is worth a lot more than you think it does. So I think we probably would still prioritize location, community over a lot of other things. I agree. I think young Craig would be very happy with the house I'm in now. But he'd be even happier to see all the ways my family have made it our home.

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16:23Craig Robinson:What was home like? What was your family like? What was your mother like?

16:28Mary J. Blige:My mother was beautiful. She worked two jobs. It was just me, my mom, and my sister. So it was just before my two siblings came, my mom raised us by herself. And, you know, some, you know, the projects. Need I say more? No. Not a great environment. But, you know, she was this little woman who had to be a man and a woman. So we were raised like that, my sister and I. But she was also this kind woman that would take in the whole projects if she needed to. She was just, she was a giver. She helped, you know, and she wasn't scary. She just, my mother's a thug. She had to make sure her little girls was okay.

17:12Mary J. Blige:So that's what I, the environment wasn't good, but my mom was, my mom was good.

17:17Craig Robinson:Home was a safe space. Yes. Yeah. And then, you know, I know for us growing up, Now, we didn't grow up in the projects, but we grew up in a Black neighborhood where, you know, you see a lot. I mean, Craig saw more than me because he was a basketball player playing at the courts. And just there's just a way you've got to carry yourself just to get to and from, just to, you know, just to be able to exist and survive. And I was reading somewhere where you said something to the effect that, you know, you didn't smile a lot because you didn't feel like people would take advantage of that smile. Like if you showed your vulnerability that that made you too much of a target, I might be misphrasing that.

18:09Mary J. Blige:Well, the thing is this, we didn't smile too much and we didn't brag too much because nobody had anything to smile about and nobody had anything to brag about. But my mom worked, so we had a little bit, teeny bit more than what everybody else had. So we would try not to brag about new sneakers and smile too much about, you know, anything because that was the environment. You had to have a game face in order not to get hurt. So you go to the store, you get a bag of candy. If you don't share it, you got to fight two girls. That's right. You know, so you guys are from Chicago, like South Chicago.

18:41You know, you just bring it back to memories telling us the same thing. Because my dad worked and we had it just a little bit nicer than our friends.

18:51Craig Robinson:But sort of not, you know. But we didn't know it. We didn't know it. Right. Yeah. But what our parents did exactly what your mom did. You don't show when you got something nice. You have to have, you started learning at an early age how to code switch in your own environment. Home versus school versus the streets. Well, it depends on socioeconomic. On where you live and stuff. But I'm just, I'm thinking back on how your mom was showing you humility, but it was not out of courtesy. It was out of survival.

19:31Mary J. Blige:Yeah, it was just something we learned too. We really learned that because when you have to fight every other day, even my mom, I'm home from work. She got to fight the, you know, the biggest chicken, you know, on the planet.

19:45Craig Robinson:My mom is this big.

19:46Mary J. Blige:So we learned early, like, we got to chill. Like, we can't, you know, even if someone said we was pretty, we can't act like you. No. Whatever it is, we had to wipe that, you know, unless you wanted to be doing that, you know. So we learned early. and I think that that helped me a lot with this music business. I was a gun ass. Yeah, just not counting my chickens before they hatch and not sharing everything with people because everybody's not for you. Something came to me today and I know you heard this before, favor is not fair. So everybody's not going to be happy. Yeah. And that's the wisdom from how we was, you know, growing up, you know.

20:24Mary J. Blige:Yeah.

20:25Craig Robinson:Well, a lot of people want to be like you. They want to be, but they also want to be famous, they want to be wealthy, or they think they want to be it. A lot of people want to go into the music industry. It's a tough business. Can you talk about, you know, so you go from your living room to signing? Yeah, so this is funny, but it's not.

20:53Mary J. Blige:We signed a contract in the kitchen on the washing machine. My mom didn't know anything. She didn't know anything about reading a contract. Nor did we care. We just, oh, we're getting out of here.

21:05Craig Robinson:That's what was on our mind. Whatever was on that contract was better than what you had. It was better than what we had. Not a lot of anything.

21:15Mary J. Blige:Yep. And it was a way out. It was a way out, but it was a safe way out.

21:20Craig Robinson:Yeah. So my mom signed a contract and this is what I would say in the music business.

21:27Mary J. Blige:I didn't finish high school. I didn't go to college. I would say this to anybody. Finish high school. Go to college. Take some kind of class because, I mean, by the grace of God, I'm here. Yeah. Because I didn't know anything about any contracts. I didn't know how much money I had. I didn't know when I was broke or whatever. I was just living. You know what I mean? And trusting people that ended up, you know, couldn't be trusted. Ended up not being able to be trusted. So get your education. Take some accounting classes, some business school, do something. You know, because it's, everyone doesn't get a chance to survive what I survived.

22:16Craig Robinson:And what was that first contract like? I mean, because I want people to understand what a bad first deal looks like.

22:25Mary J. Blige:Well, you know, to be quite honest with you, Michelle, I don't know. Yeah. You know, the lawyers, whoever had it at that point had it. And all I know is that everyone that was in my life, you know, including the lawyers, were people that were looking out for themselves. Yeah. You know, I don't want to start labeling things, but everybody was looking out for themselves. and, you know, they were benefiting off of the fact that I was unaware. And that happened for a long time. So when I woke up and realized, you know, Mary, you have to get educated. You have to stay on your business. Because you're not going to go anywhere else if you keep this up.

23:10Craig Robinson:Mm-hmm.

23:11Mary J. Blige:So I got blessed with some people that could help me. Yeah. To read contracts or read what I could read because contracts are just thick. They sure are. Who's doing that? I'm not. That's right. That's right. But if someone, I'm not afraid to say, I've never been afraid to say, I need help. And I've never been afraid to say, I don't know.

23:30Craig Robinson:Yeah.

23:32Mary J. Blige:And I've been, you know, getting help. And whatever I can't read or understand, I get my lawyers to help me read it and understand it. and people who really have my best interest at heart, they'll explain everything to me. And it's still now. I still need help because it's a lot now that I have a hold. Something to protect. Yes. Now I need more help. Exactly. And more people I can trust inside. What point in your career, what age did you start to say, oh man, I got to figure this out on my own because I'm being taken advantage of? let me see

24:14Mary J. Blige:I want to say it was around no more drama time when I was like I'm still here but my life is a mess and I need and for some reason certain people was coming into my coming into my life to help while certain people were still there that was trying to destroy so So I had to keep those people in my life and take responsibility. My responsibility was I was ignorant to a lot of things and blame it on everybody else. So I took full responsibility. And I remember when we first put the No More Drama album out. I used to get upset and curse everybody out because my, you know, things weren't working.

25:03Craig Robinson:Yeah.

25:03Mary J. Blige:You know, and it wasn't. their fault. It was my fault. When you said weren't working, what do you mean? Like, if something didn't happen, you know, if a record didn't sell or this didn't happen or, you know, this didn't get that many, whatever, I would go crazy on people, like, cursing people to oblivion and all that stuff. So when, you know, my drama album came out, I was like, I don't want to release this album without apologizing to every single person at this label. Get everybody, anybody that did anything to me. Line them up. I'm apologizing. I apologize to every single person. Where did you get the wherewithal to do that?

25:47Mary J. Blige:To say it was time. It's time and here's what I have to do. I have to hold myself accountable. I mean, do you know there are people who are 70 years old

25:57Craig Robinson:who haven't figured out that part of it yet. And you were doing it. You still must have been a kid then.

26:03Mary J. Blige:I was, but it's the spiritual side of things. And I started listening to a lot of like TV pastors and people that had information. And pride and arrogance and all that stuff. A proud and haughty person won't go further than this, you know? So it was a lot. I was getting a lot of information that caused me to pause and look at myself, you know? And so I realized that I was being prideful and disrespectful to people. And just different things that made me be like, freeze. Just pump the brakes. I'm doing something wrong here. And I need to speak to people.

26:47Craig Robinson:I need to apologize to these people for my mistakes. So that's, I just got a good look at myself.

26:56Mary J. Blige:I think I prayed the prayer, Lord, show me myself. You know, and I still pray that prayer. I got to see me. We don't want to see ourselves because that hard look at who you truly are, good, bad, ugly, you got to be ready for that. And I'm ready now. I look at myself all the time and be like, it's okay.

27:20Craig Robinson:At least you can see yourself. I mean, your rise was beyond meteoric. I mean, you went from your living room singing in the projects in front of your mother and the people that you love to dealing with a whole bunch of strangers and having your name being a household word. I mean, you have to be able to forgive yourself. The little bitty Mary J who was trying to navigate all that. And did know much at the time.

27:52Mary J. Blige:Yeah, I do. I forgive myself. That's why I'm like happy with myself now because I forgive myself for not knowing. And whatever I don't know, I'm not ashamed. I'm not ashamed to say I don't know. I don't know. Help me. So I'm interested in understanding how with all of the stuff that you've been through and you're learning yourself, the one consistent thing was your music. You kept pumping out hits and being good. How did you do that? Well, the music was my therapy. it was the only way I can get everything out of me. So if you go back to the What's the 411 album, that was me breaking fresh out of the projects.

28:38Mary J. Blige:My life album was when I spoke and said, I need help. I'm damaged. I'm messed up. I need... And everybody else said, so are we. Share My World was when I went and started doing my own thing and left some people behind. That was another chapter. You know? I'm speaking from there. Mary album, same thing. I'm speaking from there. No More Drama. My life was...

29:05Craig Robinson:I'm speaking from there.

29:07Mary J. Blige:The Breakthrough album. That was a whole nother level. I broke through. I'm here. And it keeps going, going, going, going, going. So it was just a way for me to get it out and talk to the people and have them talk back to me.

29:21Craig Robinson:Did you know you were creating a whole new genre of music when you were doing it? or were you just doing it? We had no idea.

29:30Mary J. Blige:We didn't know. I was singing for my life. You know, hip-hop soul, singing over hip-hop loops and being this little, you know. We didn't know what we were doing. We didn't know it was going to even explode the way it did. And to this day, everybody still wants to sing, you know, it's still doing it. You know, so. It's still doing it. Yeah.

29:51Craig Robinson:It's still doing it. Our colleagues wanted me to tell you that when I was... No, he wanted to tell you. No, I was going to keep this to myself. Now you see how he did. He just blamed what everyone wanted to tell me. I was going to keep this to myself, but I had a mixtape when I was in college. He used to DJ. I used to DJ. He was Craigie Craig. Yes. But I would make myself a tape for when I had company. and what kind of company women Craigie Craig women come over and and we were just talking about we were just talking about your music and I was like yeah I think I had a Mary song on every fifth song like I had yes so he wants to thank you thank you he wants to thank I wasn't gonna say it but then everybody said oh you should tell Mary that and then I was all embarrassed and now I'm glad I told you

30:52Mary J. Blige:thank you Thank you. That means a lot. The spins. Thanks for the spins. It's from Craigie Craig.

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34:21Craig Robinson:You talk about love, you know, the ups and the downs, the highs, the lows. what have you learned through your, about life, through the loves that you've had or the mistakes that you made?

34:43Mary J. Blige:The most important lesson I learned is that you're not going to be able to give away anything you don't have. So if I, I didn't love myself. I didn't know how to love myself in those relationships. So how could they ever work?

34:56Craig Robinson:Yeah.

34:57Mary J. Blige:You know, So now that I have this love for myself, it's wonderful. This relationship with me is the relationship that I work on the most. And so this relationship brings in other good relationships. It makes other people happy because I'm happy. But if I'm miserable in a relationship, the relationship is going to be miserable. That's what I learned. I learned that, you know, you can't give away what you don't have. Yeah, self-love is really a key thing. Our parents were big on making sure that we loved ourselves, saying exactly what you did. You can't love anybody else until you love yourself.

35:46Well, there's just so much focus on, for women, finding a man, you know.

35:52Mary J. Blige:Yeah, females. Yeah. It's our dream, you know, to be rescued.

35:56Craig Robinson:Or to be chosen. To be chosen. To be chosen. Be chosen. You know? And so we're always working on us, not for us, but to be chosen.

36:10Mary J. Blige:And that's where we mess up at. So many years, you're working on yourself to be chosen by someone else. I'm working on myself to be chosen by me. Like it's all about me right now. And it's going to continue to be. And this is work every single day. I got to make sure that I can sleep at night before I can, you know. Sleep with somebody.

36:36Craig Robinson:Exactly. You've talked openly about experiencing abuse. And, you know, I mean, that's part of your story. It's sadly a part of too many girls' story. I mean, I heard you say, which I've said this time and time again, because I work on issues with young girls around the world, girls' education, trying to make sure young girls have some level of self-esteem. Because you've said this and I've said this, this world is just not a safe place for girls. I mean, the entire world is not a safe space for girls. It is a shame. I say it out loud because I want the men in this world, the leaders in this world to understand that we've created a place where most girls are, they have to fear for their safety every day.

37:30Mary J. Blige:A hundred percent. I mean, no, no little girl. And you know what? No little boy is safe either.

37:38Craig Robinson:It's true.

37:39Mary J. Blige:It's true.

37:40Craig Robinson:It's true. It's children. You know. We are not protecting our children. Women, we, you know, we've been through it.

37:47Mary J. Blige:We've been through it, you know, five years old. Why? Why? What do you want to do with a five-year-old? Yeah. So, yeah. But, you know, we're here.

38:02Craig Robinson:Yeah.

38:03Mary J. Blige:And with, you know, we've forgiven. We've moved past. And it still hurts sometimes, you know. But it's a blessing in that lesson. It strengthened me.

38:19Craig Robinson:How do you find that? I mean, right now we're talking for other people who are listening who have experienced that level of abuse, but they haven't found a way through.

38:31Mary J. Blige:I think the shame and the guilt is what has people in so much pain. Yeah.

38:39Craig Robinson:Yeah. I'm sorry.

38:41Mary J. Blige:Yeah. yeah but the forgiveness the self forgiveness yeah is where when the guilt and shame starts to fade away you know you still see it you still like wow why did I why did that happen to me what did I do nothing nothing it's happening to everybody yeah so forgive forgive yourself cause it's not your fault no matter what you think it's not your fault yeah forgive yourself and don't feel any guilt or condemnation about it. And that's in the world too. Right. But yeah, like God says, no guilt, no guilt. No guilt, no shame. No, I'm not ashamed. I'm not going to let you, this world, make me feel bad anymore about something I can't do anything about.

39:33Period.

39:34Craig Robinson:And so much of it is here, you know, it's here. I mean, I think we've come to a place in this world where we know better than to condemn the victim, right? But it's like that the conversations that we have when we're alone in our own hearts and heads that are coming from no other place, it's coming from within. It's like the call is coming from within the house, right?

40:01Mary J. Blige:Yes. You know, you got to speak to the call. You got to know. That's a lie. No. I mean, you got to talk to it like you're talking to, like we're talking. No. Shut up. Stop. No.

40:11Craig Robinson:You're a liar. Like, for real. Here you go again. I'm hanging up. I'm hanging up. Exactly. Like, some people be casually like, who are you talking to?

40:22Mary J. Blige:Me.

40:23Craig Robinson:I'm talking to me. Ooh, I've got a bunch of people who are listening. I'm like, are you talking to me? It's like, no, I'm talking to me. Right. But it's real talk. It's real live talk. And I think saying things out loud, too. I know it's like making the pain real and putting it on the table. Because if you keep that pain in here, you are just carrying it. Other people need to see it and hold it and share and carry that pain. I think your music does that. I mean, just watching any audience reaction. Yeah. It is you putting your pain on the table and you watch the power of what happens when other people pick it up.

41:14Craig Robinson:And they will. You know, you see it every time you perform.

41:18Mary J. Blige:Yeah, that's what happened when I released my life album. Everybody said, wow, Mary too? Yeah. Wow, we love her so we can speak freely too. Yes, you can. You don't have to carry the secrets that's going to kill you. Why carry a secret that's going to kill you? Talk to somebody about it. Anybody. It doesn't have to be somebody you trust. You know? That's how you get it out. That's how, you know?

41:51Craig Robinson:I'm just wondering, how do you think about alone time and loneliness? Do you ever feel alone? Do you ever feel lonely?

42:01Mary J. Blige:Sometimes I'm lonely, but I'm alone a lot. like I'm in my home a lot but we have a good time though

42:11Craig Robinson:Mary and Mary together we are happy we have a good time I make sure we have a good time

42:16Mary J. Blige:we by ourselves we eating I love to eat by the way I love I love snacking I love watching movies I love laughing I love talking to myself I be trying on clothes I be playing music you know I talk to you know some friends or something on the phone or my sister or somebody you know and it is what it is. I accept it is what it is. I'm not trying to have company and friends. I'm just taking it as it is. I'm just picturing you on your couch

42:43Craig Robinson:talking to Mary, Mary and Mary. Girl, what are we going to eat next? But Mish talks about, she talks a lot about having a core group of friends, though, that you can rely on so that when you are feeling whatever, alone, lonely, or you need some feedback, some true friend, some truth.

43:10Mary J. Blige:Yeah. And I always, I listen to her because I have, you know, guys do have a cadre of friends, but we don't talk. Well, no, they all do. We just don't talk as much. do you have a group like that to fall back on or are you falling back on Mary all the time? I have a small crew of fabulous women that are my friends. I'm fabulous. Like this type of conversation is fabulous. I mean, beautiful. They really have my best interest. They're my family. We actually all live in the same neighborhood. You know, we're not sitting at the table and wondering who's going to pay. We're fighting over the check. Like, you know what I mean?

43:56Mary J. Blige:Like, it's not, you know, it's that type of thing. They don't want me to pay for anything. They don't want me to do nothing. And I'm trying to pay for everything. Like, oh, sit down. You always pay in. Sit down. And if I need, I use each one of them for different things because they're all built different. But we all share what, you know, what we want to share. But they're there for me when I need them.

44:19Craig Robinson:Yeah.

44:20Mary J. Blige:We have fun.

44:21Craig Robinson:And are these folks over time, childhood, Have you picked up friends? I, you know.

44:27Mary J. Blige:These are my adult friendships. I've known them for about 30 years, though.

44:32Craig Robinson:Uh-huh.

44:34Mary J. Blige:I barely have any of my childhood, you know, friends. I have like two of them. One of them passed away. Mm-hmm. So I have one left. And, yeah, it's just, I've known them for 30 years. Mm-hmm. They've been there. And we're still here. Yeah, yeah.

44:53Craig Robinson:Good group of women. You know, in the research that I was doing, I found that you were very intentional on not having children of your own, which I think is a pressure that a lot of women feel that they have to, we talk about pressure on women. They feel like they have to have children. Can you talk about why you chose not to?

45:21Mary J. Blige:Well, I don't want to say, I said a lot of things when I was younger because I didn't want to have kids. You know, I saw a lot of people struggling. I saw a lot of, you know, my family members needing babysitters and, you know, them not having a choice, you know, no freedom. So when you're younger, that's the choice. Those are the words you make. Those are the choices you make. I don't want any kids. But then when you get older, you start to see how valuable their teenagers are to them. Their kids are to them, you know? So now it's like, oh man. But at the same time, it's like, oh.

46:08Craig Robinson:But I think you give, I think more and more women who are making choices for themselves, period, whatever those choices are, you know. I think more men need this. Young men need to have more options of what it means to be human, you know. I mean, I think the options for young boys are very narrowed. What does it mean to be a man, right? I mean, there are pressures. It's like, you gotta be a competitor. You got to be a winner. You have to have a certain kind of job, right? You have to not cry. You have to be athletic. You know, it's like still a narrow definition, even though I think more and more parents are raising kids, young men, to think broadly.

47:00Craig Robinson:Same is true for young girls. I mean, we've done more work in society today to help give girls more options of who they can be. You can be a leader. You can be a mommy. You can be a wife. You can be a professional. You don't have to be a mother. That doesn't make you whole. Because just like with everything else, if you're not a whole person, a child will not do that for you. It won't complete you. You will just now be disappointed that this other human being didn't fulfill the holes that were in you. and now you've got a child that feels burdened by filling your holes you know you gotta be a whole person you should want that even more than wanting to be a parent you should again want to figure yourself out

47:57Mary J. Blige:you gotta get to that and don't make yourself miserable trying to have what someone else has that's their life you have yours

48:37We'll be right back. Ticketmaster.com. Mary J. Blige, bringing New York to Las Vegas. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully. When you moved to your new place, whether it was in New Jersey or D.C., was there anything that you immediately did to make you feel settled or comfortable?

49:06Craig Robinson:I think it's, for me, it's when routines are in place. Kids are settled, although our kids are grown now. But when we were moving, they were little. When they felt settled in a new school and they started making friends and life started to feel more routine, that's when it starts to feel like home. Going through the home buying process with no experience can be quite daunting, but Progressive is here to help make it all a bit more approachable. As part of their Open the House initiative, Progressive offers practical tools, educational resources, and guidance through their website to help people navigate the home buying process with more confidence.

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53:02That's growtherapy.com slash IMO. growtherapy.com slash IMO. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. and see what Shopify can help you accomplish.

53:22Craig Robinson:Well, I want to shift to fashion. Okay. Who you loving? Who you, who, like, okay, you can't tell us what you're going to wear for the residency, which I understand. But are you working with any designers that you're excited about? Who are you loving? What kind, what, what, How would you describe your look these days? Me, I'm moving away from first lady dresses and A-lines to just kind of like, you know. Looking fly, period. You know, just kind of like, whatever. But I know that at this age, I feel like, let me play with all facets of myself. You know, I'm not saying that who I was as first lady was not a part of me.

54:09Craig Robinson:I enjoy the dresses and the gowns and the this and the that. But I also enjoy a nice pair of jeans, you know, a cute little top, you know. What are you into these days? Well, I can go from chains this big to chains this big.

54:30Mary J. Blige:Yes. And dating. So this is dating. This is where Mary is right now. Gary is on some really soft, beautiful... You see how... You see my nails. They're not even long. I'm just in this... Wow. Yeah. Exploring this woman. This woman is soft and peaceful. But still, you know... She's got a little... She's got a little something. Classy. It's comfortable. Comfortable. That's the key word. comfort, you know, just playing around with whatever I want to do. Now, I've done, you know, rings on every finger, bracelets up to here, chains down, you know, and I can still go there. But I'm also her, which I've never really got into her.

55:27Craig Robinson:This her, I like this her. She cute. She cute, girl. With your little dainty pink nail. I like that. Craig's like, I don't have anything to say about fashion. No, I was going to say that I'm built, I dress for comfort today. But I wanted to look a little fly for Mary. I wanted to look a little fly. This is him looking a little fly. This is for you. Your jacket is nice. Thank you. Mary J said, your jacket is nice. She said my jacket is nice. That's because you're a nice boy. But what you watching on TV? Are you a TV? Yeah. What you watching?

56:11Mary J. Blige:I just finished the second season of Paradise. Oh, yes! Which is insane.

56:15Craig Robinson:That thing is so good. Sterling and his wife on. They are great people. Great people. But that second season's crazy. It's so good, man. I can't wait. So you like the drama types? You like the suspense kind of things? I like drama and horror. Oh, horror. Oh, I can't. I'm too scared of horror. I can't believe my fellow Capricorn.

56:39Mary J. Blige:Really?

56:40Craig Robinson:That's all Capricorns I know? We watch horror movies. I can't. I'm watching it like this. I'm, you know, and Barack, he's really, he just like, he has to warn me ahead of time. He's like, no, you're not going to like this. And I'm watching it looking down.

56:56Mary J. Blige:It's probably gory. Like, it's bloody. I don't like gory. Okay. But I like horror, like ghosts and demons. I like The Conjuring you know like stuff like that let me see I can't do The Conjuring yeah that's spooky

57:08Craig Robinson:how are you thinking about your acting are you producing more you got parts coming up you got projects that you're in that you're excited about or can talk about yes projects

57:20Mary J. Blige:that are coming up projects that are coming that are coming and am I doing some more acting I am yay I am

57:33Craig Robinson:How has that transition been like for you? I mean, do you feel about acting like you do about singing? Like, I know what I'm doing. I know what a good song sounds like. I know. You feel like, no. But you're so good. Yeah, but I'm still not sure.

57:52Mary J. Blige:You know what I mean? Okay, you're in that insecure phase of your acting. Okay. Yeah, I'm not Angela Bassett or Meryl Streep. Yes, yeah. I'm Mary trying to figure it out. People are like, oh, you're so great. You're so good. In my mind, I'm like, not yet. Do you like watching yourself? No, I don't. Yeah. I don't like looking at myself. But I do it because I have to. It's work. I don't. He's looking at me because I don't. I still hate it, but I have to. When I see it, I'm cringing like, oh man, I got to fix that. I have to fix this. I have to fix that. But I have to look at it. Yeah. Yeah. And then sometimes you'll look at it and be like, damn, it's not that bad.

58:41Right. That's right. I'm pretty good. Right?

58:44Mary J. Blige:Yeah. You start to see what you need and what you don't need. Yeah. Michelle was like me when I was younger. I hated the sound of my voice. Did you? Oh my God. I hated myself. Even your singing voice? I sing everything. I just hated everything about me. Now I be listening to Mary J. Blige more than everybody else. I listen to my stuff. I'm like, wow. It's like, I'm really good. This is really good.

59:10Craig Robinson:It's like listening to another artist. Look what I missed out on. I miss it. Do you have a favorite album? Oh, man.

59:22Mary J. Blige:My Life album is one of my favorites. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

59:25Craig Robinson:Well, that's a good, good. You have good taste. You got good taste in Mary. I do. Who else are you loving these days? Artists.

59:36Mary J. Blige:So many people right now. I love her.

59:39Craig Robinson:Oh, yeah. I love her. And she's a sweetheart, too. Yes, she's beautiful. You haven't on a show yet? No, no. That's going to be amazing. Yeah, we got to get. Okay, Gab. We got to get you. I'm going to work on, but she's a sweetheart. But she's shy, too. Yes, yes. She was very, very, very, very quiet.

59:54Mary J. Blige:I love her. I love Alex Isley. Jasmine Sullivan.

1:00:01Craig Robinson:I was trying to get to her concert. Missed that. Missed that. That's what I still love. I love going to concerts. Now I will. Oh, well, see, now I'm going to be. I'm just like you. I was thinking, yeah, if I had to answer this question, who am I listening to? Grand Fires. I like Teddy Swims. I'm liking. Timbs. I love Timbs. Oh, yeah. Love Dolce. Yep. Summer Walker. Mm-hmm. I mean, I just love raw talent. Somebody that can, you know, without a band, they can move you.

1:00:38Mary J. Blige:Like you. Well, thank you. And thank you. I was so honored to perform at the inauguration.

1:00:45Craig Robinson:I was going to ask you. That was, wow.

1:00:49Mary J. Blige:It was so nice. At the state dinner. But the actual inauguration. That's right. That was. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. No, that's how we felt too. One of the greatest moments in my career and seeing you guys, you know, before he goes up and, you know, that was big. And thank you. And I'm sitting here with you. This is crazy. I know. It's good.

1:01:13Craig Robinson:It's like the first time, you know, the time I remember most because the inaugurations are just. You know, and I'm nervous. But at the state dinner, when you performed with the French president, you remember that? I remember that. See there? You're like me. It's like, oh, yeah, I did do that. I did do that. You performed. We were sitting right there.

1:01:36Mary J. Blige:Right in the front.

1:01:38Craig Robinson:Like right here. Yeah. I was nervous. I was like, go, girl. Go. Did you feel me cheering you on? I saw you. I saw both of y 'all. I was like, whoo. Do you still get nervous?

1:01:53Mary J. Blige:I do, but not like that. Like, you guys were the president, first lady, y 'all right here. In my mind, all I could think of is what a train wreck I was. No, really?

1:02:06Craig Robinson:What do you mean, train wreck?

1:02:09Mary J. Blige:Please don't make me talk about it. If only you knew what my life was at that very moment. Okay. Just know this. I'm here. I'm better. And I'm here again with you. Yes, you are. In a better mind frame and a better, everything is better.

1:02:27Craig Robinson:Yes, all better. But see, the thing is, is like in that mind frame, you were still amazing. I mean, and that's the thing. Thank you. That's the work. Thank you. Because it's like, I've been rooting for you forever, you know? Thank you. I know through your story, through your songs, what you've been through, what you've been carrying and what you've been trying to grow from. But all the while, you were always enough. You were always more than enough. It's like I'm just blessed that you are at the point now. And sometimes it takes time. It takes age to own this wisdom. That I can see it. That you can see what we all saw.

1:03:08Mary J. Blige:Yeah.

1:03:09Craig Robinson:She knows what she's doing. And you know that now. and you were offering that to so many people, you know, that insight, that, you know, that acceptance, you know, that growth and doing it through music. Oh, just, it stays with you. You can carry it. We can carry it with us. Thank you, Michelle. Oh my goodness. Thank you so much. Make me blush. Yeah, we are. We'll shift because now we'll shift to somebody else because we like to take time on IMO to help some other people. Okay. And we have a listener question. From your neck of the woods in New York. Maria from New York. Right, Maria. I have a good friend who is recently engaged to her boyfriend who I unfortunately cannot stand.

1:04:00Craig Robinson:I feel like my friend is a different person around him and I worry our relationship won't survive if she stays with this guy. He's so emotionally immature and every time I see her with him. She's basically having to appease all his moods. He gets annoyed by practically everything. As her friend, do you think I can say something to her and how? Or do I have to let things just take their course? Maria from New York and she's in her mid-30s.

1:04:27Mary J. Blige:Okay, does it sound like she's in any type of danger?

1:04:32Craig Robinson:It doesn't sound like it. I think she just doesn't like this guy.

1:04:35Mary J. Blige:I think she should just chill. Don't say anything. Let life take his course because she can end up without a friend. Don't say anything. Just love her through it. Be with her. Walk with her. Talk with her. If she asks you something, then you speak to her about it. Don't give you two cents if she don't ask you. I completely agree.

1:05:06Completely. No, in thinking about this, I think about, I was thinking about it from a guy's standpoint, obviously. And I've always felt like you have to be really careful when you give people advice about a loved one. Because what happens is they will forgive the person before you forgive the person. And they will forgive the person before they will forgive you. and to your point you could lose a very good friend if you don't hold your tongue

1:05:44Mary J. Blige:it's the truth if your friend wanted your help she would ask you she didn't so just love her

1:05:52Craig Robinson:through it I like what you asked first is is she in danger right because that's an important caveat you know I mean because sometimes you know if this if this were a more urgent situation You know, I don't I don't think we can. I wouldn't want to see my friend in harm's way. Right. You know, I think I would risk the friendship if it were a situation where he just wasn't a jerk, but he was a dangerous jerk. Right. You know. But if he was just a jerk, what would you do? I probably would not unless asked. I mean, please. She would say something. Why would I lie? Why would I lie? No, I'm just saying I think you would say something.

1:06:36Craig Robinson:Why would I lie right now? I'm not saying you're lying. I just say, I think you would say something. I'm in situations like this all the time. You know, we're friends. Tell us more. I have to be, I more importantly have to be careful about what I say about people. Now, if somebody asks me, which people do, what do you think of blah, blah, blah? People ask me all the time. I don't know whether, maybe nobody's asking you what you think. But people ask me what I think all the time. Now, if you ask me, I will say the truth. I'm not going to be like, he's great. If it's a serious question, if they're showing doubt.

1:07:22Craig Robinson:But no, if somebody seems happy in their situation, and I don't particularly like them, they might see it because I'm not going to be around you. You know, they might get the hint. You know, I might limit my amount of time being around that person, which might mean that I'm limiting my time being around my friend. Because, you know, your friend can make a choice and you can make a choice too. You know, I mean, you can love somebody from a distance. You know, if this person is toxic to your space and she loves them, it doesn't have to be toxic to my space. Right. Yeah. Because I also have to protect my energy, too.

1:08:10Craig Robinson:You know, it's like, and, you know, nine times out of ten people do what they want to do when it comes to love. You know, you do learn that. You know, you can't talk people out of anything. when it comes to how they feel. People make, some oftentimes make up their minds. Their minds are already made up and you can see it, you know? I mean, if the guy is an obvious jerk nine times out of 10, she knows it. Yep. She knows it. It's like, unless she's blind, you know, it's like, well, you see it, you know? So if you like it, I love it. You know, if it's not hurting you, but don't ask me. Maria I hope that was helpful oh yeah say oh yeah there was a person behind that question sorry Maria yeah that was for you

1:09:04Craig Robinson:oh my goodness well thank you babe thank you for taking the time to be with us it is you know you you are just you are a blessing you're a gift thank you Michelle and Craigie Craig. Craigie Craig. That's how you remember. Craigie Craig. Craigie Craig.

1:09:25Mary J. Blige:Thank you both for having me. This was a blessing. Thank you so much. Yeah. And you were going to kill it

1:09:32Craig Robinson:on the residency. I'm going to do my best to get out there. We'll get the dates to make sure we share the right dates with the listeners. But I know it's going to be the bomb. Yes, it is. So it's like, it's Jordan speaking. Jordan going out on the court. Well, thanks for taking the time, babe. And we will see you out there. Yeah. For sure. Break a leg. No.

1:09:59Mary J. Blige:We're not breaking no legs. I thought that was what... Nah, we're not breaking legs. We just say the power words. Okay. No. Okay. All right. Don't break a leg. There you go. Kill it. We'll get back. Kill it. Yeah, we're going to kill it. That's what you do.

1:10:13Craig Robinson:Thank you, Mary J. Blige. Thank you, Miss... Love you, babe. Obama.

1:10:16Mary J. Blige:this was great I had fun thanks again to Lily for sponsoring this episode

1:10:45I'm Emma Greed, host of Aspire with Emma Greed, the podcast where I sit down with people who don't just dream big, they build big. If you love Michelle and Craig on IMO, just wait until you hear their episode on my show. Michelle told me about the moment at 26 when she lost her father and her best friend in the same year. It made her walk away from her corporate law career to figure out her why. That's the kind of conversation you get on Aspire. We talk about mindset, ambition and doing the work that actually moves the needle. So if you're ready to raise your standards and take charge of the life you're building, Aspire is where you start.

1:11:19Follow and listen to Aspire with me, Emma Greed, available wherever you get your podcasts.