Get a Hobby, Be Happy with Jessica Williams

19:44Craig Robinson:It's like, oh, you're really pretty in person. Oh, my God. What picture were they looking at? What are you looking at? See, you needed an older brother. See, he would have calloused you for all of that. He would have punched him. I mean, cousins. But still, like, still. That didn't work? No. Still, like, I'm so sensitive. And as I get older, I'm like, that's just how I am.

20:13This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully. Mish, what is one of the biggest swings or leaps of faith you've taken professionally or otherwise? For me, you remember it was when I left investment banking to go into assistant coaching. That was a big swing for me. I remember calling you and you helping me to be okay with that decision.

20:44Craig Robinson:Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've had a lot of big swings. I mean, you know, me leaving my job at the law firm where I was making a ton of money in corporate law and deciding to go and work in government and public service where it cut my salary in half. And I remember how guilty I felt for going to mom and dad and even expressing an interest to do something that I cared about rather than something that would make the absolute most money. I mean, at the time I was making my salary was more than both mom and dad's salary combined. How do you think your age at the time shaped that decision? Do big decisions feel more or less daunting at different stages of life?

21:26Craig Robinson:Oh, my God. That felt like the biggest decision that I would make. I mean, I had invested so much in getting my law degree and then to walk away from it. It was scary. But we've talked about it. Once you make that first scary leap, that first hard decision, and you realize that you land pretty solidly on the other side of that leap, you get comfortable with taking those risks and understanding. So yes, age definitely makes the difference because now, you know, I'm more confident in my ability that when I take a big swing that I'm pretty, I have the tools to land wherever I need to land. You know, it feels easier to make big decisions when you're young because if they don't work out, you don't have a lot of people to, you don't have a lot to lose.

22:23It's harder when you're older because now the stakes are higher. That's true. And more people are relying on these decisions to be the right one. All of our listeners have faced big decisions and their fair share of uncertainty. I remember the first time I ever bought a house, one of the biggest leaps you ever take. I was really intimidated by the whole process. But when the time came, all I could do was trust my gut and have faith that it was the right decision. Progressive understands the hurdles first-time homebuyers are facing, including housing affordability challenges and a lack of straightforward education that could make the homebuying process feel less intimidating.

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24:03Craig Robinson:Did you feel pretty? I mean, this is another tall girl thing, right? You know, it's like when you're when you're a tall girl, you know, it's like you don't start feeling pretty until you're an adult. And you can you really realize that it's like, oh, I really like this height. Totally. And a lot of. Part of the problem is you don't meet tall guys until later because it takes us so long to catch up. Yeah. Height wise. I mean, the big part of it, the over the overarching is media standards and our diet. Our diet, our media diet actually is so counter to physically what we look like. Right. It's the opposite actually.

24:42And if nobody's talking to you about, I feel like now we have that conversation about what are we looking at on TV? Who's desirable on TV? Who, you know, who is considered petite or feminine, which is what's valued in a heteronormative society. Like our media diet is what is the overarching thing. You know, when they do the doll test and, you know, those studies. But, you know, that's the big thing. And so I think if you're a person of color, you are—we are downloading that our entire lives and taking away whatever it is, especially since it's nothing you ever really say out loud.

25:15Craig Robinson:Yep. But for me— Because you know better. You know better than to say it. It's not like we were taught that. I mean, I know my parents and my brother, they thought I was beautiful. Totally. You know, so it wasn't, you know—so it's when you're at school. Why are you doing that? I don't know, but I'm doing it. He's doing it. I'm doing it, but I only did it to be like, yeah. His sense of humor is sort of like, what are you doing? But he's closest to me. So in improv, I had to yes and him, you know? So I guess, but like. Great job. I don't know. I'm a term coach. I am a term coach. But totally, like I, so no, I didn't because I'm very, I'm a feeler.

25:53I'm very sensitive. Like there's no, you know. And then, you know, when you're on TV and you do events, they like pay people to make sure you look good. So it's like a lot. It's like, you know, who you are when you're at home, brawless, you know, watching Real Housewives of Rhode Island.

26:12Craig Robinson:Can you imagine? They did Rhode Island. No, they did. Did you see it? Yes, of course. I just watched it last night. I used my time. It's crazy. I know you don't know what it is, so I don't want to get into it. No, go ahead. What did you think? I'm enjoying it thoroughly. He's supposed to be watching one. So we're going to pick one. Go ahead. I said, why don't I watch Rhode Island? Because it's the new one. Everybody's here. And you know what she said? Don't watch that. No, don't watch it. It's not going to be any good. Now she's watching it. I told him. I missed it. Well, I watched them all. Yeah, me too.

26:41Craig Robinson:So that's not a measure, you know. What's your recommendation for him, though? I think Potomac. Yeah, I see. I think Potomac. Potomac is the one where, like, I actually am laughing with them because they are very funny. Yeah, yeah. I think Potomac start two seasons ago. Yeah. Yeah, I guess you don't have to start from the beginning. You don't have to. You can just jump right in. I want them to have Stacy. Like, I want him to see that whole evolution. So, I have to watch it from the beginning. No, no, no, no. We have a limited time. We know we have a limited runway. So, we're saying start from, like, two seasons ago.

27:14And that's just a lot of seasons.

27:16Craig Robinson:A lot. Yeah. A lot. It's more than, like, eight episodes, isn't it? You can do it. Do it for the team. Yeah, definitely. You know, you're a professional now. You're professional. I mean, this is the other thing. You can't be in podcasting and not know pop culture. You can't. Like, you can't. Here we go. You know, I might have to replace him. Here we go. Here we go. You guys. Are you free, Jessica? Yeah. With you? Yeah, I live right over here. Definitely. What about 90 Day? Do you watch 90 Day, fiance? You know, I watch glimpses of 90 Day, but I have a hard time. There's a lot of that. I can't recommend it in good conscience.

27:52It's either you do watch it or you don't. I can't. I have watched it.

27:56Craig Robinson:I've watched it. Yeah. But I, it's like I can watch anything. I'd have trouble watching that. That's how bad it is. It's not good for your soul. It is not. TLC is, you have Bravo and you know, you're like, okay, Andy's behind the strings. And you're like, this is a, there's a standard. TLC, you're like, this is, this is, what am I watching? What do you think of Rhode Island so far? I love it. It's got everything. There's a lot of drama that's happened. So much drama. I mean, the camera started rolling. They're all so messy. Totally. I also wasn't expecting the accents. Like, I realized I didn't know anything about Rhode Island.

28:30I was just thinking that the other day. I didn't know what to expect from Rhode Island. Yeah, there's a really strong, like, he's over here. You're like, I didn't know this is what I'm going to get, but I want it. See, that's why I was going to watch it. We used to live in Rhode Island. Really? So I thought I'd be able to connect to that one. Still don't. It's not the one. I won't. Well, we don't know.

28:48Craig Robinson:It's still too new. Okay. It's still too new. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to jump right in two seasons. Okay, then you got to get it in. It's fine. I'll get it. It's fine. Well, now I'm wondering, tell me about your parents. You know, they braged you. Yeah. Creative, interesting people. What were they like? My mom liked football players and bouncing, who become bouncers. And that's why I'm tall. I'm just trying to tell you why I'm tall, as my mom has a type. And especially as I get older, I'm like, that's really cute. Like my mom's always like, my mom's always like, how's W. Kamau Bell? Have you spoken to him in a while?

29:25And I'm like, oh, brother. Like she loves like a tall, a tall black man. And so, yeah, I think she met my stepdad. We have a really blended family. She met my stepdad at The Ohio State University. And my real dad, I think she met at The Ohio State University because they're Ohio people. Then she moved to LA, lived in like Highland Park for a while. There was like some clubs, like the Golden Tail that like Black people used to go to and like Deaf Comedy Jam. My dad, my stepdad is like a bodyguard and bouncer on the circuit, police officer, all those things. And then they reconnected here and then they got married.

30:04And they came, my dad came with my two siblings, my older sister and my younger brother. and they raised us together in the South Bay, which is about 20 miles south of here, which is a really nice place to grow up. You're like in LA, but you're not. So you can have a really, really nice normal life. And I don't know, they were always very encouraging because my dad did a lot of entertainment and they're always really encouraging of the arts. And so they all kind of let us be ourselves. They were tough on me. Like I went to like a gifted and talented program, tested into that, went to a magnet school, had to transfer schools to go to a predominantly like kind of white and Korean and Japanese program.

30:49And then.

30:50Craig Robinson:Was your neighborhood diverse? Yeah, my neighborhood was, but I had to go a little farther more to like Palos Verdes, San Pedro area to go to school because I read a lot. And then I went to high school and they had a really great performing arts program. Super underfunded, LAUSD, but a really great performing arts program. So I did a lot of that, did improv, and then did Uprice Citizens Brigade when I got in college. And then I went to Cal State Long Beach. You went to Cal State. I went to Cal State Long Beach. And then I did Uprice Citizens Brigade and something called Comedy Sports. And then I got The Daily Show while I was doing that.

31:24How old were you? 22. I was 22 when I got that. I know. Now that I'm 36, I'm like, wow, baby bowler. Totally. You said baby baller? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was a baby baller. It was one of those things where they didn't know how I got hired. Like, I was auditioning for Alison Jones for this Will Ferrell movie. And she was like, you might be too young, but they're casting The Daily Show. Can you come back in and do these two sides? And it was like a stand-up where you have a green screen background. And then there was a thing at the desk where you're like talking to John and you're at the desk. And I was like, sure.

31:59and then I did that, and they sent the tape in, and then maybe two days later, I was at the Panda Express on my campus. There was like a Panda Express there in between classes, and they were like, Jon Stewart saw your tape. He wants to fly you out to audition with him in New York. What do you do when you get that call? I screamed. I think I had an undercut, like Rihanna's undercut. I think I had green hair. I remember my best friend and I screamed, and my mom took me to TJ Maxx, and we got like a Jones New York suit. And I just remember flying out. It was so cold because it was in Hell's Kitchen.

32:32The wind whips around. I felt like I was in like a Broadway musical where I'm on the streets of New York and I'm scared and I'm 20. And I remember I'm going to make it in showbiz. And I'm anywhere. And I just remember auditioning with him, him just being so nice and just being like, you know, I'll talk to you soon. And he auditioned me by being like, hey, I'm Jon Stewart. Like, it's so nice to meet you. I already saw your tape. You're so funny. All you have to do is like be present with me. And that really released me. And I do really well with mentors like that who are very nice because I'm so sensitive.

33:13I don't do well with mean mentors, which I think that can work for people. Another reason why sports were hard for me because I need somebody to really be nice to me. He's a mean coach. Yeah, I mean, it works. We're not all a monolith. Like, you know, some people need to be tough. Some people need their asses whoop too. Like some people need it, you know? But he was very sweet. It's like I could tell, some people you can tell are girl dads. Like there's something about working with a girl dad who's a good girl dad where you're like, that's good. They made you better. Like you've learned a lot having girls and I like the way you deal with women in your life.

33:47so anyway um I got that job pretty quickly it I say that a lot because it was the kind of audition where he wasn't making it seem like I had to prove myself yeah and at 22 black girl I needed that especially coming up in comedy because there's like especially at that time a lot of mean white guys in comedy actually um and who are like you're not funny you have to prove yourself to be funny like all that stuff. And I had had a lot of that up until that point.

34:15Craig Robinson:So was that your, how did you know what to do on The Daily Show? I mean, it's like - It's a machine. Like it's been, it had been going for a really long time. And as a correspondent, your day is watching the news all day. You're looking for stories. People are pitching stories. And then there's like a field producer segment. And those are like, they're kind of bro-y, at least when I was there. It's like the guys that you go to Utah with and you interview somebody who's going to say like, we should eat babies. And you're like, tell me more. And you have those packages and then you have the stuff that you do with John.

34:49And then a lot of those people went to Ivy Leagues and it's like two kind of separate things. And then you kind of ping pong back and forth, but there's like a schedule. But when you're 22, you know, it was like, I didn't finish college, but it felt like grad school. You learn to kill your darlings. Just because it's funny doesn't mean it's going to make it. You learn how to work for one person. You know, we're editing these field pieces and it depends on how John's feeling that day, but it's like watching his reaction. But that's important to work for someone. It's important to be like, oh, he didn't like this as much.

35:21And just because you think it should be some way at the end of the day, that's your boss and you're gonna do it that way. And then also he, we had been in a room full of people and I would be sort of like, oh, like I have something to say about Kony 2012. And he'd be like, yes, Jessica, like, what do you think? you know, in this whole room full of people. So he was a really good boss for me for that. And I learned a lot about who I was. And it's also a really nice way to move to New York. It's like on somebody else's dime with a job. Where'd you live? I lived in Hell's Kitchen first. And then Wyatt Senac was like Mr.

35:53Brooklyn. And he was like, I'm going to show you something about Brooklyn. He's like, this is Brooklyn. And so then I lived in Williamsburg, Clinton Hill, Prospect Heights, all over. How long were you there? About 10 years. And then I, COVID happened. So you grew up. And I wanted to be with my parents. Yeah, totally. My 20s. I spent my 20s there. And it was great. Like, I, this is, LA is like my heart and my soul, but New York really affected me profoundly. What was the hardest part about working on The Daily Show? I think doing field pieces. Like, I think traveling and you're going to a rally is very scary.

36:28You know, doing that is, it takes guts. Interviewing someone, you know, in the middle of Florida, you know, is really scary. And you know you're going to have to do bits and get it out. You know, you don't know if they're going to freak out or something. And I remember having quite a bit of anxiety. And sometimes I would text the other correspondents like, here I go. You know, I hope I get what I need. But yeah, especially now. It's like what they're doing, like Jordan and Desi and Ronnie and, you know, it's like, and Josh. It's like really cool that they're doing that. But for me, it gave me a lot of anxiety, especially coming up more introverted.

37:02Craig Robinson:Yeah, yeah. Just have to, you know, that's the life we chose. That's the job. Wow. Were you glad to be doing it? Did you feel like you were in your sweet spot? Absolutely. It was really nice to have you guys in the White House. Yeah, it was nice. It was like, it's harder now, I think, because there's just so much. There's so much. And it's really, really, really like a trigger point now. But yes, it was great. It was funny. The Daily Show is something where you wouldn't know, you don't know who's watching it. And you would get really cool people that watch the show, which is really nice. But yeah, I learned so much.

37:39But it's hard because with that and podcasting, I was like, I always knew I was an actor. So I had to do like a hard pivot and be like, oh, well, I started this as an actor. I just so happened to do improv and really like comedy. That's got to take a lot of courage because you got this regular job and you're doing well. And then, but you know, you were destined for something else. So how and when did you decide, okay, this is enough. I gotta follow my passion. Totally. I mean, it was really hard. People were like, oh, we want you to run the Daily Show. They're like, oh, we want you to host the Daily Show.

38:14And I'm thinking, I don't want to. I love them. It's a hard job. You do it every night. Imagine people are like, for me, when I told people I was doing this, they were like, tell Michelle we want her to be president. I was like, she doesn't want to be freaking president. What are you talking about? Those people don't know what the job is.

38:33Craig Robinson:I know, but you do. I don't know what this is. You do. If you wanted to, you would do it. What are you talking about? You know? And so I remember one day it was this whole to-do. It was just like, you host. And I was like, I don't want to do that. You know how much work that is? You don't want to see your family. I'm looking at the news like this all day. Then I have to put on a suit. I don't want to wear a suit, but you do look better in a suit when you're hosting it. You have to wear a suit, you know? I don't want to do that shit. You can't wear your pajama top and your loose-fitting non-support bra.

39:01I want to sew a tote bag. Okay. That's right. That's who I am. You don't get it. And you have to know that I know better than you because I watch people do the job. And I know what it takes to do the job. I know better than you. You know, so it's like, tell Michelle. And it's like, don't you want her to run for president? No, I don't. No. Why? She did it. We're good. Let her freaking do her whatever, you know, but let her knit and deal with y 'all asses. But yeah, so, you know, it is hard to leave something that was like my womb. But I never thought, like, since John went back and since I've gotten to do shrinking that I get to go back.

39:40And so I've done a couple of bits going back home and it feels really good.

39:44Craig Robinson:It's like getting a taste, being able to dabble in it is very different. And they're the best over there. They're like, if you want to do something, let us know. It's like, great. But I never thought I'd be able to work with John again in that capacity. And I feel very lucky.

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41:41Craig Robinson:Back to tall people. Always. In acting. Okay. No offense to the all of Hollywood. They're so small. I know. They're such small people. And I always miss, I don't see anyone. Because I'm looking for, that's X. And I'm looking up. And they're down. And I miss them. They walk right past my waist. They're like, you didn't know that was Tom Cruise? You're like, I would know. I thought Tom Cruise was my height. Totally. You know? Totally. I'm doing a rom-com right now that I think you'll be really excited about. It's like me and a shorter, a guy who's shorter than me. I love him. And I'm really excited.

42:20And I was like trying to tell him, I was like, look at Tom and Zendaya. And he's like, no, I'm not going to Google that. But I know for me, it's my inspo is Tom and Zendaya. And I love looking at them walking around in London with their little dog. And he's a little short king and she's a tall queen. And it just looks so right. It just looks so right. And it's like, why, Hollywood? Why? It looks good. We can do this. We can do this. So I'm trying to take it. I'm trying to take it back because it's ridiculous. There's a weird like doll, baby doll Barbie and Ken thing. That's like, if you're tall, you can't be with somebody short.

42:53But it looks really good. You need to be under the arm of the guy.

42:55Craig Robinson:Totally. And sometimes I still watch that. I still watch women who are underneath somebody's arm. And I'm like, I don't even know what that feels like. No, Zendaya takes Thomas. She just grabs him. He's right on her middle and he's grabbing it. They're both grabbing each other. Like, I love paparazzi photos. Thank you guys so much if you're watching. It really means a lot to me in the tall woman community. But I really hope to take back the rom-com and be like, I think that sounds amazing. It's actually really lovely. On the tall woman side, you know, the fact that women's athletics has really developed and we're seeing all types of bodies and images.

43:35Craig Robinson:And I feel so good about the next generation of girls coming up. I don't know about you, but when I meet a tall young girl, I stop. I know, me too. And I'm like, girl, you are, this is exciting. Me too. You know, and I see you and stand tall, you know, do not worry about this. You will grow into it. It will be fabulous. But we didn't have those wrong, you know, there was. I know you did. When I see tall young girls, I stop too. And I tell them they didn't make them like that when I was younger. Yeah. Especially like. I'm sorry. When you think about you two, you all aren't that tall. You're tall, but you're not like tall.

44:15I'm still, I'm 5 '10". Yeah. I'm 5 '11". I'm 5 '11". But then when you add the shoes and you add the hair and the thing, you know, it feels... And also presence. Like, I'm not going to... I think my presence feels tall.

44:27Craig Robinson:So how is it getting cast when you're, you know, when everybody is 5 '6"? And... It's hard. Yeah. Yeah, it's really hard. People, I think, there's a lot in this business about people hiring the same people over and over. Like, sometimes I look at movie trailers and I'm like, I just saw all these people in a different movie. And now it's like, and now we're bringing you them in a different movie. And you're like, oh, you know, we have to work to make it look different, you know. And then there's something about being, like, not mixed also, which means you work less considerably. You know, every show, there's like a lovely mixed young lady on the show.

45:08And that benefits everyone because she can have a white parent and a black parent. And it's, again, our media diet. It's like, what are we saying? And then being tall on top of that, it's like really, really hard to get cast. You just have to, you can't rest. You have to prove yourself all the time. But I feel lucky to be on Trinkin' because we shoot that like five or six months out of the year. And it's just by my house. and it's just another opportunity for me to just show what I know I can do. I do think if you keep chipping away at something, if you just keep doing it, keep showing up, then finally things will go.

45:44Oh, thank you so much. You really are.

45:45Craig Robinson:I mean, that's one of my favorite shows. Oh, thank you. I've had the opportunity to meet Harrison. Oh, you did? Oh, yeah, my God. He's so sweet. One of the sweetest people in the world. Trying to get him on the show, but I'll corner him into that. I'm going to try to guilt him. It's like the former first lady really wants you on the show. He's like, okay, well, what? Like, I don't know. I don't even know how you would begin to do that. I feel lucky that we get him to act. I'm going to figure it out. Yeah, totally. We were just with, I was just with him the last two days and like, he's just a maniac.

46:17Like, he's our, especially on set, he's like our son. I mean, it's Jason's show, but Harrison is like the son and we're in the solar system around him. We're like ready. We're like, is he here? All right, let's do it. Or he'll be like, some days he'll be like, I'm already acting. I'm already acting. And then the crew has to be like, ugh, ugh, you know. But it just depends on how he's feeling. But he's like, you know, he's earned it. Sometimes I'll just look at him and they've wiggled him into doing press, you know. And I'll be like, he was at the cast party for like Indiana Jones. He was at the cast party for What Lies Beneath.

46:53Like he was at the cast party for Witness. You know, this is how long he's been acting. You know, he doesn't have to do any of it, really. So I feel very lucky. But you feel like you're holding your own. I mean, you're toe-to-toe. Thank you. I have no, you know, I have no choice. Why am I going to let Harrison Ford do gobble me up on screen? No. Yeah, right. No, I'm competitive. I don't do sports, but I like to think I'm athletic. And I'm very competitive. And one thing I'm going to do is make the scene mine. I always, my, have you seen Annie Hall? You guys seen Annie Hall? There's this lobster scene in Annie Hall that's totally, you can tell, like an improvised, spontaneous moment.

47:34And they're giggling and you're just like, wow, like Diane is giggling. And you're like, this is everything I want in my career is like an improvised moment. I want every time I do something on camera for it to feel like it's happening for the first time. And, you know, I want to, if Harrison has an idea, I want to yes and and be like, I want to make my screen partner look good. That's a big part of being a supporting character too is like, I'm going to put my oxygen mask on and then I'm going to help you. How do we make this happen? And how do we make this scene look alive? so for Gabby especially the character I play who's such a heart led person I'm always trying to be like okay now what feels how can we have a lobster moment what feels spontaneous I wanted to feel like you look at it and you're like oh only Jessica could do that that's kind of my goal I think but yes casting is hard

48:28Craig Robinson:there's no there's no like you really have to get people to try and think of you but I can't force it so in the meantime when I'm off and not working I like to sew I have hobbies and I have a full life. That's kind of the goal. Like I act, but I want a really full life. That's the thing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that affects your work. I mean, you start seeing these actors who just, they become other people and it changes the way they show up. It's really easy because when you're an actor, you're on set, people can get you anything you want. You're like a baby, basically. Everybody knows where you are.

49:11They're like, do you need something? I can get it for you. And you become this weird baby person. And it breeds a lot of mental illness. It does. And I get it. Like, I really want my union to have more health services specifically for actors. Because you have, you know, it's so mean. Our business is so mean. The casting doesn't make sense sometimes. You're fighting for these parts. It's very small. And, you know, there's, you know, there's the white guy on set. There's number one on the call sheet. You don't know if he's doing method. You don't know what his thing is. Is he going to make it easy for you?

49:42Is he going to make it hard? You might still have to kiss them. Like, you know, you don't, it's its own thing. And it is like a really, really kind of baby job. Like there's so many important jobs, but acting is like, it is the most baby. Like, look at me, I'm feeling emotions. Like it's so embarrassing, actually. It's a really embarrassing job. So when I see guys talking about the craft, Like, shut up. Shut your ass up. You cry, baby. You just got paid to cry on camera. It's cool. It's a crap. But you're not a surgeon. You're not a doctor. It's like you're not saving lives. You're not saving lives.

50:20You didn't fix the ozone layer.

50:23Craig Robinson:You're not. Our job is elective. Jessica, everybody can't do it. Like, somebody like me, I'm fascinated at consuming acting. Really? You like the good acting. I like to watch. I like to watch. And sometimes, even if it's not good, I don't mind sort of watching people attempt to do things. It's like a sport. Me too. It's like, I appreciate the fact that you've had to work all of this and get up there and then mess it up. Me too. I like a medium experience. Like, I think online people were like, this movie didn't blow my balls off. And you're like, you want your balls blown off every time you watch something?

51:02You can just have a perfectly medium time. That's right. And it's good. Like, bring back a medium time. I think it's kind of destroying art. Or medium, like medium less, like that's okay. Like it's fine. I think it makes studios take less of a chance on art. Because everybody needs to have their life changed every time. No, we have to try and fail. It is a goofy job where if you do it right, you get an insane amount of money for a tiny amount of work. And I'm calling that out because a lot of actors walk around like they're, you know, changing the world. And it's like, I guess, but this is art that we get.

51:38It's a privilege. Yeah. So, yeah. But I do love good acting. My partner knows like, if I see good acting, he'll just turn to me like, do you want to rewind that? And I go, yeah, they're cooking. Like I'll rewind things when I see it. Your partner knows good acting. I think so. I think he does just from like us being together. It's like, I want to see it. Like I want to see cooking. And I think there's nothing, But that's what I like about reality shows, like Real Housewives.

52:05Craig Robinson:You want to watch Steaks. Okay, Craig. Listen, talk to him. These women are acting. That's right. They're like, you look at me weird. That is my point to my sister that it is not reality TV. No, it's not reality. It's acting. Nobody's arguing. I'm not saying this is so real. And that's why. And it's like, oh my God. It's just, it's entertaining. It's funny. I think it's like when Andy Warhol came out with pop culture and people were like, what is this? This is a can of soup. I think it's that. I think really amazing things happen in reality TV and I think it's really important and it shows us something about ourselves as a society.

52:46And it should be watched. It should be studied. It should be analyzed. Like, reality TV is important.

52:51Craig Robinson:You were breaking down characters, behaviors, things you've seen before. I mean, I think it's also, look, I tease him because what you said about acting, I say all the time about sports. You know, I mean, it's, you know, societally, we have decided what type of entertainment is relevant or good or worthwhile. Right. And it's like reality TV is it's it's sociology. It's empathy. It's analyzing behavior. I mean, it's like the it's it's like the Emmys of like, girl, let's break down that conversation. Totally. Which is very female. Totally. You know, totally. But what gets, what do we spend money on?

53:34Craig Robinson:What gets the awards? Somebody throwing a ball. It's like, okay, you're good at throwing. You can jump high, but that's what you, that's all you do. Totally. You've been trained. Yeah. This is what you've done. So you should be good at it. And you're tall. Totally. You won the genetic lottery. Or genetics, right? You fit the bill. You're a gymnast because you're 4 '11". You know, I tried. I tried. Right. That's another thing tall people can't do. A backflip. Couldn't do it. Too much going around. It's too much going around the mountain. It just can't. Yeah, you got the gravity. Because you do the first part of the backflip.

54:10Craig Robinson:You're like, that was a lot. But you got to bring the legs. Those are long legs. All of them. All of them. Yeah, no. So I do think it's very gendered. I make this argument only because so many people make the opposite argument when it's something they don't understand. Totally. You know, that's the only reason I make the argument. It's mainly to men to say, wait, wait, wait a minute, right? Yeah. You know, what you like is only, you know, credible because men have decided it is. That's right. That's why. I agree. You know, it's not because it is objectively. It's a skill for sure. It's a really cool skill too.

54:50Craig Robinson:Totally. You know, whatever the sport is. Anybody who becomes a master at something they do, it's fascinating to watch. I know. I like it too. I feel like that's why I like talking to people about anything, really. Especially when you travel and you're like, oh, you're a master shoe shiner. Like, tell me more, genuinely. What kind of, you know, what's it like when somebody has smelly feet? You're shoe shining. What's that about? How do you deal with it? How do you deal? How do you cope? Do you have a regular? What do you guys talk about? Do you shine your own shoes or are you over it? What's the best kind of shoe to shine?

55:20You know, like, really? Like, I really care about that. We can go in. Totally. I think people, that's why people are endlessly fascinating. And it's what you choose to find interesting that matters. And I do think reality TV, it's like, you should, you could, my dream, and I've said this quite a bit, is towards the end of my life when I'm a professor somewhere, they're like an honorary professor teacher, reality studies class. And like, what does it say? Yeah. What do the Kardashians say? What does it reflect back to us as a culture? What does it mean? You know, that, that. What do you think it means these days?

55:54Well, there's so much reality TV. It's hard to choose just one thing. It's a valid medium and it's doing really, really well. But it does show us like Love Island showed us a lot. Did you ever watch? Did you watch this last few seasons of Love Island? Yes.

56:09Craig Robinson:You're my friend. You are my friend. The girls introduced me. I didn't really know about it. I would pass over it.

56:28Craig Robinson:And then one day, it was this one summer. Was it COVID? I don't know what, no, it wasn't COVID because it wasn't on. But the girls were into it. And it was the thing, it came on every day. And I was like, oh, I was judgy. I was like, how could watching these kids in these bathing suits become a thing? And then they were like, just sit down and watch with us, mom. And I couldn't stop. I couldn't stop. I mean. And there was a discussion, deep discussion after every episode. Totally. We'd have to stop. I mean, especially this last season, there was a lot of like race politics that came into play.

57:02There were fandoms that came into play. There was like somebody like, you know, as beautiful as Alandria. You're like, am I taking crazy pills here? Am I taking crazy? This is like one of the most stunning women I've ever seen. But when you're in this sort of fishbowl of like people whose beauty standards are one way, You're just like, oh, this is really, really weird. It's a really super planet stuff. And then that's what I love. It's like when she got out of the house, it's like she's going to fashion. It's like what she deserves. But it did spawn a lot of conversation over fandoms and race and the United States.

57:35And then the season before that, there was some weird like Dominican American stuff. Like it was like, it really highlighted. It's like a weird fishbowl and it brought up some racial politics like of like heteronormative romance in a way that I think is really interesting. And it is the easy, it is lazy to me for people to count that out because it's reality TV. There's so much there. That's right. But that's why I think it's like really important. 90 Day Fiance is its own thing that's saying a lot of crazy stuff about immigration. And, you know, a lot of times I'm rooting for the women trying to get in this country that I know in their home country make a dollar an hour.

58:14And they're like talking to this old guy and they're like a hot young thing trying to get into the United States. I'm like, yeah, yeah, get away a shot. Shoot your shot, get away a life. You know, it's like, I don't know. There's just so much, but. We've got our viewer question. Yeah. Okay, we have a question. You know what I'm saying? Yes, we have. Okay, let me help you. Yeah, this is from Benedetta. And Benedetta does not want us to know where she's from.

58:39Craig Robinson:At 37, as a black woman, I am finding myself at a bit of a crossroads. I've recently graduated from a leadership program, and while I've been fortunate to land interviews and receive great feedback, I'm struggling to close the opportunities. It's incredibly frustrating, especially as I find myself applying for roles I know I can excel in. There's a lingering uncertainty that I can't quite shake. What more can I do to make the leap into a role that truly aligns with my aspirations? I know that career journeys aren't linear, but I'm reaching out because I'd love to hear your thoughts on staying motivated during this process.

59:16Craig Robinson:How do you keep pushing through the uncertainty without settling when the pressure to take anything that comes your way is so real? Your advice would mean the world to me. And that is from Benedetta, who is 37. It's really hard because what I could have used and what I could use when I was an actor is like, sometimes people just aren't going to hire you because you're black. And like, you feel like you're taking crazy pills. You're like, oh, I can't get this job. Oh, I can't. And you do all these things and you see other people get in. Maybe you're more qualified. And like, it's like, you're not crazy, actually.

59:50Like, sometimes you're just not going to get it because you're black. We are the history of our country makes it so that we are, it's actually harder for us to get jobs. And that's very real. And like, sit with that, I think, for a second. And that's okay. but then also it's like okay to be disappointed. I feel like there's that too. It's like feeling like, you know, feeling like you're disappointed in the system comes with being the human experience, I feel like, but also keep, you got to keep going and make sure you fill your life with things that you enjoy that remind you of who you are. Like whether it's, you know, for me crafting, making sure you laugh with your friends, doing things that fill your tank is really important.

1:00:37Even when you get the job I know you're going to get, it's like make sure you fill your tank because work isn't the only thing. It's like you have a whole full life and you are a person outside of this job and make sure you hold on to that because it'll make the stress of not working in the field that you want to work in a little easier, I think. And what do you guys think? Mm-hmm.

1:01:01Craig Robinson:You know, it's the, how do you stay focused? I think sometimes you need to be ready to take an alternative path because it depends on what your circumstances are. You know, I mean, I wouldn't tell somebody, just hold on to your dream regardless of anything, because you might not be able to do it. And flexibility and adaptability is part of life. I mean, I don't want to discourage anybody from pursuing their dreams, but you got to eat. A good part of happiness and feeling sustained is like I'm taking care of my family, paying my bills. And sometimes, look, this whole notion of having the career that makes you happy and fulfills you, I think is a relatively new goal.

1:01:57Craig Robinson:Our parents took jobs and they worked and they did what they had to do to pay the bills. I don't think my father, who was a stationary fireman at the water filtration plant all his life, who was an artist, he was a gifted painter and sculptor. He couldn't do it because he had us. And so he made the call that I'm going to work for the city, make a good salary, send my kids to college. You know, most of people in life are doing things that don't bring them passion. You know, it's like so they find it in other things. And I think I would say keep an open mind to what is really possible too and be ready to pivot, you know, and try not to be too disappointed with the pivot.

1:02:53Craig Robinson:because that it's how you feel about the pivot sometimes that can determine it all. If you feel like I gave up everything and I can't be happy now or I failed because I didn't do this thing in the way that I thought it was done. That's all in our heads and our hearts. I mean, it is not a statement of anything other than maybe you just didn't, it didn't work out. At that time. At that time. and sometimes things don't work out, but don't let that block your happiness or define you. Keep going if you can, but be realistic if you can't. Yeah, you're also always surprised. Steve Jobs says that, I'm really bad at quoting people, but I understand the essence of it.

1:03:42That's what I remember. Steve Jobs says that really cool thing about connecting the dots. You want to do one thing, but then you wind up doing something else and then you wind up doing something else. but at the end, it all kind of came together, especially for him in making this Apple product. And it's like, you would be surprised the route that you take to get to where you want. I found that's been true in my life and my career, which is the only thing I can really speak to. And then the other thing that you reminded me of is thinking of your thoughts as trains. Like I had a really good therapist once tell me, like, your thoughts are coming and going.

1:04:14You're on a subway platform, the trains are passing and you can choose to get on the train or you can choose not to. So when you're seeing this train, that's like, I'm a failure because I don't have the job I want right now. You can choose to get on the train or you can acknowledge it and see it and have it pass. But that reminded me of that, of like, just because you think that you're a failure today because you don't have this job today doesn't mean that that's actually what's true. That's right. Yeah. Well, for Benedetta, from someone who has pivoted quite a bit in their career, I would say do not be afraid to begin at the beginning.

1:04:50And that's where I think a lot of people get hung up on because they want to pivot into an equal or higher position. to your point about you're not going to always find something because you got to eat, you got to live, you got to raise your family. You really have to think about starting from scratch. And that might mean, hey, I want to be a basketball coach. And you take a salary cut and you do something else on the side while you're creating this new opportunity for yourself. I agree with Mish where this is a new thing where people are actually actively trying to find the thing that they love to do because it feels like people are just absolutely so unhappy in their current situation.

1:05:45But I don't think it's, I think people have been thinking about this for a long time. They just haven't had the wherewithal to do it. And having done it a couple of times myself, you just have to get past the fear of starting from the beginning. And then the other thing that I would say is, Benedetta's 37, you said? So she's young enough where if you can keep your lifestyle at a manageable place, I think the reason that I could make that first jump from corporate investment banking to coaching was I never took my lifestyle up to the big time bond trader level because I was always afraid that it wouldn't last.

1:06:35if you can manage to do that it makes it easy to pivot

1:06:40Craig Robinson:it makes it easier easier to pivot I think that this is separate from her but like there is something where I say to much much younger much younger I'm talking like they're like 18, 19 not to you Benedetta you know you my girl but you ain't gonna like your job all the time you ain't gonna like it someday you're not supposed to Some days you're going to work with people you don't like. You can't just quit. You got to have a job. You got to pay the bills. You're just not going to like it. So? That's right. No, that's absolutely right. I didn't like when I had to. So? Yeah. That's not how it works.

1:07:15But you got to admit, when you're doing something you like, it's easier on the days when you hate that. But you got to work for it. You do. But I mean, even this job. I love my job. Some days, I'm not a morning person. I got to get up. It's just what we do. You just got to. There's always something you're not going to like. And so this idea that you have to like it all the time, I'm like, nah.

1:07:35Craig Robinson:Well, living below your means, living within your means, I'm telling young people that all the time. I mean, that's a key to freedom, you know? Totally. Well, Jessica. This has been cool. I had a blast. I had a blast. You guys were lovely. I wasn't worried. I hope you're not exhausted. I am. I know you guys. You're going to get in the car. Oh, my God. I want to see my videos. I know you guys. It's like. Totally. He's like, I'm powering down, powering down. Jessica's off. I'm going to unpin my hair. I'm going to do it in the car. My driver knows that's what's happening. Sometimes as soon as I get in the car, I take my wig off sometimes.

1:08:11It's like, goodbye. Totally. When I get in the black car, it's like, thank you. They know. But like, I had a blast. This was great. I'll do it again anytime. But thank you for having me. It's been, I wasn't worried. Thanks for being here.

1:08:23Craig Robinson:You have, it's so much fun watching you. Oh, thank you. And you are killing it. Thank you. And just keep it up, girl. Represent us tall chicks out in the world. Keep opening up the opportunities for tall black women to do whatever we want. You are representing well. Thank you. Same to you. And give your mom our love, even though, you know. She's not especially Craig. Yeah, whatever. Give her a hug for me. I will. She'll love it. She's going to watch this and she's going to love it. She's going to be happy that I did that. Thank you. You did that thing. Thank you so much. Thank you, sweetie. Thanks again to our friends at Progressive Insurance for sponsoring this episode.

1:09:03For more information, visit progressive.com slash open the house.