In short
Motherhood and women’s health, including conception struggles, egg freezing, IVF, miscarriage, pregnancy anxiety, birth choices, and the importance of open conversations and apologizing to kids.
Guests (backgrounds)
Serena Williams, elite tennis champion and mother of two daughters (Olympia and Adira); Mish (host), a mother and public figure discussing her own parenting and housing/community support; additional references include Barack Obama (Serena’s husband) and Venus Williams (Serena’s sister/tennis partner).
Key claims
Serena says there’s “no right way” to be a mother and emphasizes breaking taboos around fertility, miscarriage, menopause/perimenopause, and maternal health research. She recommends egg freezing in the late 20s (she did at 27–28) to reduce pressure. She argues doctors and information access matter, and maternal health shouldn’t be political. She also stresses apologizing to children as humility and modeling.
Notable examples
Serena miscarried once, then used IVF for both girls; she discovered she was pregnant (7 weeks) during the lead-up to the 2017 Australian Open, won while pregnant, and later had a C-section after blood-clotting concerns and multiple surgeries. She describes her mother’s coaching style and Serena’s own parenting approach (being present, explaining, and apologizing).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Importance of Motherhood
0:54 to 2:00
A conversation about the significance of motherhood and personal experiences.
“First of all, let me start by thanking Steve and Connie Ballmer and the entire LA Clippers organization for hosting us today.”
Conception Journeys: Challenges and Realities
2:00 to 4:48
Discussing the realities of conception journeys and personal challenges faced.
“can't even say their names without just just feeling it right yeah they're pretty special So we're going to talk about motherhood, our motherhood journeys, and so much more.”
Breaking the Silence on Women's Health
4:48 to 8:10
A discussion on the importance of open conversations about women's health issues.
“And this is only going to air to millions of people.”
Serena's Winding Path to Motherhood
14:01 to 18:30
Serena shares her emotional journey from a difficult tournament loss to discovering her pregnancy.
“And Serena's like, oh, you just hold on.”
Competitive Spirit and Parenting
18:31 to 21:48
Discussion around competitive nature and how it translates to parenting styles, especially in Serena's case.
“So did it feel extra good that you were able to.”
Labor, Delivery, and Medical Challenges
21:49 to 24:39
Serena details her labor and delivery experience, emphasizing the importance of medical guidance during complications.
“So your labor and delivery experience was also a journey.”
The Importance of Support Systems
24:40 to 28:00
The conversation shifts to the significance of family support during health struggles and recovery after childbirth.
“And then because I remember my husband's parents were there and I was in the room and they were talking and they were holding the baby.”
The Importance of Maternal Health
28:00 to 29:20
Discussing the significance of maternal health and the need for better information and support.
Personal Experiences in L.A.
29:20 to 31:00
Sharing experiences and reflections during a trip to L.A. for All-Star Weekend.
“what our bodies do what we are capable of doing is amazing but the fact that there isn't research done on maternal health.”
Reflections on Serena's Mom
32:36 to 34:25
Serena Williams shares insights about her mother's influence and coaching style.
“Well, let's turn to your mother because so much, you know, everybody talks about your dad and the relationship with your dad.”
Show all 23 chapters
Memorable Moments with Mom
34:25 to 36:47
Serena recounts cherished memories with her mom during tournaments and childhood.
“My mom must have been an incredible athlete to learn how to play.”
Lessons in Strength and Responsibility
36:47 to 41:06
Discussing the life lessons and strength instilled by Serena's mother.
“And I remember every night after I would win a match, because I always played this.”
The Balance of Parents
41:06 to 42:00
Exploring the roles of both parents in Serena's life and their impact on her success.
“And then now she's instilled that into all of our daughters to just carry that power, to carry that strength and to pass it on to our kids and to my kids and and all the other grandkids.”
Parenting Philosophies and Influences
42:00 to 44:20
Discover the impact of maternal influences on parenting styles.
“You can have everything all set, but it's not going to work unless you have that part of you.”
Present Parenting Approach
44:20 to 46:40
Explore the challenges and strategies for being a present parent.
“I have, you know, ideas for education goals.”
Experiences of Raising Daughters
46:40 to 51:00
Hear reflections on the joys and differences of raising daughters versus sons.
“I always thought I was a bit of a tomboy when I was younger.”
Balancing Parenting Philosophies
55:28 to 56:01
Examine how to balance different parenting styles within a partnership.
“How do you balance your parenting philosophy with your husband?”
The Balance of Parenting
56:01 to 57:24
Understanding the dynamics of parenting and collaboration between partners.
“So he'll like, so Olympia does something.”
The Importance of Apologizing
57:25 to 58:28
Discussing the significance of humility and apologizing to children.
“I always say, you know, you can have one kid and, you know, swear you're a good parent.”
Navigating Public Scrutiny as Parents
58:29 to 1:00:04
Exploring the challenges of parenting in the public eye.
“And so it's just, I think it's a good practice for me and hopefully maybe someone else, but I feel like it's a very good thing to do.”
Creating a Normal Childhood
1:00:05 to 1:02:04
Ways to ensure children experience normalcy despite fame.
“I live in a very small town in Florida where I can go anywhere and it's normal because Michael Jordan also lives there.”
Experience as a Classroom Mom
1:02:05 to 1:04:01
Serena shares her experiences and joys of being involved in her child's school.
“And if they want to grow up and they want to be a great athlete or they want to be a great programmer, then they have every right to do that.”
Words of Wisdom for Moms
1:04:02 to 1:05:46
Offering encouragement and recognition for the sacrifices moms make.
“And I know it's been short, but I want to give us time to wrap it up.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Serena, tell us if you feel comfortable about your conception journey. I mean, you... Well, one thing I... Well, that is definitely... I've never had that subject. Yeah. That's kind of intimate. Well, you know, it's true. Well... But we're with moms. We were... And this is only going to air to millions of people, so... It's just between us girls. while we were in Rome.
0:36And?
0:48This episode is brought to you by Chase Home Lending. Hey there. Hi there, moms. Hey, Serena, girl. Hey. What's happening? First of all, let me start by thanking Steve and Connie Ballmer and the entire LA Clippers organization for hosting us today. They are wonderful. Let's give them a round of applause. And you guys have been great partners to us personally, and we are incredibly grateful to be working with you. So thank you. We're here today to talk about my favorite subject, motherhood, with some of my favorite people, mothers, right? And what better guest to have, not just one of the greatest athletes in the world, but
1:52one of the greatest mothers in the world because we're backstage and I'm like how the girls and this one you know you couldn't you can't even say their names without just just feeling it right yeah they're pretty special So we're going to talk about motherhood, our motherhood journeys, and so much more. But I want to begin with just a fundamental question. I don't know about you. I've done a lot in life. I have accomplished things, degrees, and all the things. And I always knew that I wanted to have a career. I wanted to have an impact. but the one thing I always, always knew I wanted to be was a mother.
2:49For sure. I mean, it is the most important thing. And I knew that from a long, long time. And that's not always true. I mean, we all come to motherhood in different ways for different reasons, and there is no right way to be a mother. That's for sure. That's all I've learned. But I'm wondering, Serena, did you feel that way? Did you always want to be a mother? Yeah, actually, I've always wanted to be a mom. I didn't know, you know, there's a lot of things involved with becoming a mom, but I always knew that I wanted to be a mom, even when I was young, like playing with my dolls. You know, I was always the one that just wanted to have kids.
3:33So it's always been something that I've always knew throughout my life. and I didn't know when, you know, I just didn't know when it was going to happen, but I always knew that there was one goal that I just definitely wanted to reach and that was becoming a mom. Yeah. And then you start trying to be a mom, which I did. And I, you know, I, I, what they never, what I was never told was that the biological clock was real. And I try to tell a lot of young people that a lot of young women that that clock is is real and Barack and I we married in our late 20s took our time hanging tough and then we started working on conceiving I got pregnant once and miscarried which was devastating and then we tried and tried and tried and we had to do IVF for both girls, which, you know, it becomes, it's more of a thing than I knew then.
4:34I think more young women are talking about their conception journey, that it's not always guaranteed. But Serena, tell us if you feel comfortable about your conception journey. I mean, you... Well, one thing I... Well, that is definitely... I've never had that subject. Yeah. That's kind of intimate. it. Well, you know, it's true. But we're with moms. And this is only going to air to millions of people. It's just between us girls. Well, we were in Rome.
5:18And?
5:26one thing led to another. And then nine months later. So, but you were pregnant while you were still, so were you trying? No, I wasn't trying to have a kid at the time. But you were not not trying, clearly. Apparently. But you know what's so interesting about what you said about the biological clock? I tell all my friends of age, freeze your eggs. Because I just feel like that is the best thing that you can do as a woman as you decide to go on this journey. I feel like I did that. You froze your eggs. Yeah, I froze my eggs. And I felt like once I did it, because I was still playing professional tennis, and I felt like I wasn't ready to stop, and I wanted to keep going, and it just wasn't time.
6:19And then all of a sudden, all this pressure came off of my shoulders. Like it was just all this weight just fell off my shoulders once I did that. Then I told a lot. Ever since then, I told everyone to do it. And so how old were you when you I was in my 20s? I was like 27, 28. So so it was it was a really good time to do it. And also someone told me to do it. So I always felt like it was really important for me to pay that forward. because then nowadays with technology, there's just so much that you can do. Yep. Like you said, even with IVF, which, you know, is also such a great journey as well.
6:57And, you know, I just felt like I just felt so much better. I just felt so much better that I actually had that option. So, yeah, so we had that's what we were able to do as well. I mean, there's so much pressure on women just to, you know, I mean, you know, if you don't get get that part right there's still a feeling that something is missing I don't know about all of you but I know that when I struggled to conceive I took that on like a personal failure I mean I don't think that we have that conversation enough about how many times that either you conceive and you have a miscarriage or whether you conceive and it doesn't work yeah so I feel like the only times is work when you're not trying to conceive, but it just, I think that's just a really important part of just being a woman and it just all these things that I'm all about just breaking down these walls and talking about the uncomfortable and making them comfortable and talking about things that more people don't.
7:58So you could tell us more about Rome, but it's okay. Not that. Now that's a different type of conversation. I wasn't sure we were here for that.
8:12So it was, I don't know, I just feel like a lot of people aren't really, women aren't really open. Like, it's kind of like, you know, like menopause and perimenopause. Like my mom's generation, no one's open about that conversation. My mother said she didn't remember. I was like, you lying. Exactly. Or it didn't bother you. My mom said, oh, that was nothing. Yeah, right. It's never nothing to them. And I'm just like, but now I think this generation is all about it. Like the more you know about it and the more you can, you know, just tell people about it. Like I try to tell everyone about it. I tell all my friends, listen, I started a prednisone.
8:51Why not? You know, and it helped me sleep better. It helped me do that. And they're like, really? I hadn't done that. I'm like, girl, you better do it. I hear you. So, and you know, I'm all about just talking and having real raw, open conversations because I think it's so important, like not to hide what all of us go through. That's absolutely right. It doesn't matter what color you are, how tall you are. It doesn't matter. You're all going to go through it. So I think it's so important to have those conversations. So back to the kids. I think that, too, is just like, you know, it's important to say, like, you know, this didn't work out for me.
9:22Or this is how I had my kid, you know. Or this is what I did. And this was my journey. And then it also helps you feel more like, oh, it's okay. Like, oh, I, you know, one thing when I was pregnant, I checked my underwear. every single time I went to the bathroom. I mean, sure we all get that at some point. Is it still there? Exactly. It's like when no one talks about that because it's just a natural, it's almost like a natural reaction. It's so true. Yeah. It's like, because you just have stress the entire time you're pregnant until you actually get to the baby. Then you have a whole nother stress.
9:56That's right. But it's just like, just, you know, having those conversations. I am so with you. One of the reasons why I like to be open and honest is because we didn't have that necessarily. And the truth is, is that we don't pay enough attention to women's health. There's so much we don't know about our bodies, so much that doctors don't share with us. Even the issue of conceiving and freezing eggs, if you don't have the right doctor at the right time, you may not get that information. I still know young women who aren't thinking about freezing their eggs because nobody mentioned that to them.
10:38So it becomes, do you have the right doctor? Are you in the right location? Even if you get married later, you can still use those eggs with your husband. It doesn't, like, it's just so, you just have so many more opportunities and options. And so, I don't know, for me, I was really happy that I did it.
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13:06So then you got pregnant and you were in a Grand Slam tournament when you, when did you, what?
13:18I mean, okay, can you walk us back to when you found out? because you were pregnant when you won the Australian Open in 2017. I had no intention of winning. Yeah. Just for the record. You were just, I'm just here. Just for the record. This is one time I could lose and not be upset about it. Really? No, because I remember thinking, so it all started in New Zealand. I was playing a tournament before the Australian Open in New Zealand And I'm not the most positive person on the court. If anyone ever followed my career, everyone was making fun of Coco. Everyone see that? Making fun of Coco. I know, right?
14:03And Serena's like, oh, you just hold on. I had to say something because I was like, can you smash that in one go? Like, hello? Coco, you can do better than that, girl. You can do better than that. And then, of course, someone started pulling up all the pictures of rackets I smashed. I was like, wait, when is this a Serena roast? I was just trying to support her Just trying to help the girl out Just get off my back So anyways I was at this tournament with the famous attitude That I may have had sometimes And I just had a bad I just lost to this girl that I just I shouldn't have lost to And I just remember I was just so mad It was windy and I was mad at the wind And it was the ball kid I was mad at the ball kid And I was so angry with everything I was so mad.
14:52And I'm sure I smashed a racket. I was miserable. Yeah. And even in the presser after, we all know about pressers after. Oh, my God. I said, I hate this place. I never did this in my life. I said, I hate this place. I'm never coming back. It sucks.
15:16I was miserable. so then next week I'm in Australia and I'm working out and I'm like why am I breathing so hard anyway eventually I also my boobs were massive massive massive and I was like okay I'm just going to take a test and I took a test it was positive but I was like okay this is crazy and so anyway so I ended up going to the doctor and he's like oh surprise you're like I'm like, what am I, like four weeks pregnant? I'm like, no, you're seven weeks pregnant. Wow. And I was like, what? What? Excuse me? It was crazy. But then it all made sense as to why. Yeah, yeah. So bad. I mean, that was the worst of the worst.
16:03Probably one of the worst of the worst. And you weren't pregnant those other times. Well, you know, I was thinking about being a mom. I always wanted to be a mom. Yeah. That was probably in the back of my head. um so so yeah so then I was like oh my gosh so then I thought to myself wow self what are we gonna do uh-huh and so self self there's a baby in here and did you already committed to play at the open yeah and I was supposed to play doubles so I pulled out of doubles and Venus didn't tell me anything but later on she said when you pulled out I knew you're pregnant I'm like how you didn't tell her?
16:43No, because I also felt really bad because I was just like I didn't want to pull out and I didn't want her to be stressed and then it was crazy. I couldn't you know, I just didn't want to stress anybody out. So one of my sisters knew and the baby daddy knew, my husband. Yeah, that's good. That's good. That's good. And my agent knew, Jill. So we just kept and then, but apparently Venus knew too. So she told like early It was like on the third round in the locker room. She's like, she told me. And I was like, oh, okay. And then I felt bad in the final because I was like, I always felt bad. It's always like she probably wanted to take it easy on me because she's always protecting me.
17:24Yeah. So I was like, I really wish she hadn't known. Yeah. Because then maybe, I don't know, maybe it would have been different. Maybe it wouldn't have. But still, I just like to be super fair with whoever I'm playing. So, yeah. So that's kind of how it happened. And then at the end, I was nine weeks pregnant. And then. Whoa. It was nuts. So how did you feel through it? I was exhausted. I remember playing points. Most of us are just in bed. We're in bed. We're not breaking rackets. We're just in bed. I had to sleep for that. But I remember thinking to myself, I can't play long points. I need to finish.
18:03I have three shots and I have to be done. So I was like, I have to hit lots of winners and lots of aces, which is an insane strategy. You were on a mission. But I hadn't planned on winning. But every time I kept winning, I was like, oh, I can beat her. And then, you know, and I was like, oh, I can beat her. And then it was like, oh, I got to beat her. She pissed me off. So she got to go down. There was only one or two of those. So you just revenged your way to the title.
18:38Oh, girl. And then there was another one. I can't lose to her. I mean, I have some sort of pride.
18:47So that's how I would add. Yeah. Wow. Wow. So did it feel extra good that you were able to. Okay, that's what I was saying. So I couldn't have long points. So if I had a really long point, if you go back and watch the footage, I would lose the next point. And of course, it's only my opponents don't get that. They don't get to understand that rhythm. because that's not normally how I play. But, you know, when you're getting every, eventually you'll see that after a long point, Serena loses the next point. So you have to strategize. Because you're trying to catch your breath. You're trying to, yeah.
19:21Yeah, but I also have to keep a face on that doesn't let anyone know that I'm, you know, exhausted. Like, surely can't breathe. But women can do anything. Amen. Amen. especially with the help of God you can do everything and I knew I was having a girl because Australia gets really hot, they do Celsius so it's like 43 is like 120 and one day I had to play in 43 and I was like no way there's no way and that's when I knew I'm having a girl because I said to myself no way can a boy make it, they just, sorry y 'all I genuinely said this. You just don't have it in you. I genuinely said, and I told my husband that day we were having a girl.
20:12There's no way a little boy could handle everything and putting this baby under. And we had a girl. That's right. Olympia was just like, Mom, we're cool. We're cool. I got you. I'm hanging on. Hanging in there. I wish you'd just win this point. But you know what? She has a bad attitude like me. She gets angry if she doesn't win. She gets so mad. Well, we don't call that a bad attitude. We call that competitive. Thank you. Okay, we call that competitive. Yes, that's what we call it. That is not a bad attitude. Because if a man acted that way. Yeah, well, they told me for years it's a bad attitude.
20:48So I love this. But guess what? I'm getting some good insights now. We're both the youngest. And there's something about that determination, I believe. And I see it in my youngest. We have two girls. And I, you know, I think when you're keeping up, you know, I know I felt like my brother would deliberately learn how to play a game, go off and then go, Mish, let's play. And I'm like, dude, you, you know, he was just going to beat me down. What's the age difference? It's a year and a half. It's almost two years. And so I'm always losing, you know, and trying to keep up. And after a while, you just get pissed.
21:30You know? So I think there is a youngest child determinant in that. Absolutely, for sure. But that doesn't explain Olympia because she's the oldest. I know. I think it was just the situation that she was in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A little bit from it. That's okay, though. So your labor and delivery experience was also a journey. Yeah, that was a journey. I have these issues with my blood, so my blood can clot pretty easily. So I have to be on certain type of medicines, especially if I'm pregnant. I have to always take injections every day. So when I had the baby, I couldn't breathe, and I kept telling the lady, the nurse, I kept saying, I can't breathe.
22:25And she was like, oh, well, you'll be fine. And I said, no, actually, I think I need to get a CAT scan because I feel I think I have blood clots in my lungs. And you're in the hospital. I'm in the hospital. You had a C-section. I've already had the baby. I had a C-section because she wouldn't come out. I knew I was going to have to have a C-section. So I just had this premonition. Yeah, I just felt like I feel a lot. And I don't know, three months in, I was like, I'm having a C-section. And so when they told me I had to have a C-section, I wasn't surprised. and I went with the plan and also tell women now I say listen definitely if you want to push go for it I wish I could have done it but also if the doctor tells you they have to cut do it because I've seen so many kids be so affected because women want to stick to their plan of I must push I must push and I've seen kids come out unfortunate that um and even die because they didn't follow the you know follow what the doctors well that's another thing that women take on that birth has to look a certain way.
23:30And I, for one was like, I went in five centimeters dilated. I thought about natural birth for literally the conversation I had with my doctor that said, okay, it was like eight. And I said, well, how long is it going to take? How much, how long am I going to have to be in this kind of pain? And she said about four hours. And I was like no stick that needle right in my back i think i could have done it if she had said an hour right if she had said this baby's coming an hour i'm like okay i can do it but four hours yeah no i was like so i mean i applaud the women that can do i well it's wonderful yes yeah it's not me for you.
24:17Because I heard about something called the Ring of Fire. Oh, yes. I never want to meet the ring. I don't know. See, I'm always like, would you get your tooth pulled without anesthesia? Is there anybody here? Would a man do that? Definitely not. No. I know. You're going to be the butt of all the man jokes. He's handling it well, though. Steve over there cracking up. You know y 'all are weak.
24:54so so anyway so I was I told the nurse that and she just was like this is crazy talk which it may have sounded like crazy talk for me to tell him what to give her exactly quote unquote what I needed and how I needed it and then I started coughing so hard so all my stitches just like burst open because I couldn't breathe and so like my I was holding a pillow on my stomach and I was just coughing because I was just like I'm like they're gonna break they're gonna break and I couldn't breathe so I was just coughing coughing coughing and they broke and that was I had to have that redone I think I had like five surgeries and that I don't know it was I don't remember some of them and then um my doctor came in and I was like I can't breathe I think I need this the cat scan This is like after I'd already told the nurse.
25:43And then because I remember my husband's parents were there and I was in the room and they were talking and they were holding the baby. And I calmly walk because I'm again, you're up walking. I calmly walked back. I was like, I don't want anyone to panic. And that's when I told the nurse I can't breathe. You know, I was just like, you know, help me out here. And she didn't take me serious. so then when the doctor came I was telling her I couldn't breathe and she was like okay I could look at her and tell that I don't know if she believed me but she did everything I asked and I was really grateful that I had her and that she was with me for the whole pregnancy journey and it's so good to have a doctor that can listen to you yeah and you know you might say things that don't make sense but still she she heard me she listened and if she hadn't listened it would I I wouldn't be here.
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26:34And she made sure that she did what I asked, and then she found exactly what I said. So then I had to have another surgery to get something in my veins to stop clots from going to my heart. I had so many surgeries. How long were you in the hospital after you delivered? It wasn't that long. It was only like eight days. And you had that many surgeries in eight days. In eight days. It was crazy. And then you had to go home with a baby. And I remember my only goal was to be able to walk to the mailbox. And one day I walked to the mailbox and I came back and I passed out for the rest of the day. It was very intense.
27:15I remember watching the documentary that followed your comeback. and it really moved me to see you because it showed you and um you and the family leaving with Olympia in the um carrier and you were determined to carry her but it was clear that you were struggling yeah that you were physically you were not the Serena Williams everybody knew but I also was very proud of you for showing that story and anyone who hasn't remind me that the name of being Serena being Serena this is like watching her journey um and her comeback you show it all in a way that is so powerful and if I didn't love you before then I loved you even more just watching your determination to get that baby home regardless of your health but you were struggling yeah I was really struggling but I also had some great help you know and sometimes you know family is so important and not everyone has family and so I just felt so grateful that I did have that and my husband and I had my family and then um because I don't remember the I don't think I remember the first three weeks yeah because I remember my husband's sister came to visit and she told me like a year later and I was like I vaguely remember you there I would have never remembered it if she hadn't reminded me I was like oh my gosh everything was just so I was on it was a lot yeah yeah but it was good and I think that you know every journey everyone has their own journey and I was blessed to have my journey and I the more I talk to women the more I understand and see that everyone's journey is not everyone but a lot of women's journey is so intense yes and well often worse than mine giving birth is intense which is why on the line it is why maternal health should not be a political football um because what our bodies do what we are capable of doing is amazing but the fact that there isn't research done on maternal health.
29:38There's a limited amount of information we get about our health. We aren't encouraged to ask questions. We aren't encouraged to talk amongst each other. And I just want us to vow today, you know, regardless of our generation, that we don't pass that down to the next generation. I agree. That we owe them the knowledge, the wisdom. Because we want to know. Yeah. I mean, everyone wants to know. And they don't want to know if they don't know. Yeah, that's right. And so it's just like knowledge is power. And it's like when you go to school, you would never know the things that you learn unless you're taught those.
30:14You weren't asked to learn about so many subjects, but you learn about them. And I feel the same way about us and our health and passing on that knowledge. And I think it's just so important.
30:32So, we're back in L.A. for another round of IMO recordings. And it's All-Star Weekend. I know. How's your trip going? You know, really well. And Kelly and the kids are here. So, we're going to try and check out some of these All-Star activities. You know, it's been a busy time at home with the boys' basketball schedules. And we've got a busy week of recordings here in L.A. So it's always nice having a relaxing place to stay while I'm here. I know what you mean. I mean, I don't have that issue, but I know from your experiences that when you're on the road, you got to have a place that feels kind of like home.
31:14Exactly. And this time, my Airbnb has a steam shower, a fireplace. But Mish, I know you've got quite a busy schedule of your own. You and Barack are prepping for a really big week of events. The grand opening of the Obama Presidential Center in June, right? Yeah, yeah. We are so excited about the opening. The art in it is amazing. And we can't wait to share it with the community and with the world. That's so great. And I'm sure Chicago will be seeing a lot of visitors that week, including myself and my family. With Airbnb, local hosts can offer those travelers a proper welcome. And with visitors arriving from all around the world for a big event like this, it's even more important that people have some comfortable places to stay.
32:08So, if you've got a place you're not using during a big event in your hometown, consider becoming a host on Airbnb. It's a great way to make some extra money and a fun way to share your city with fellow fans. Your home becomes part of their experience and you get to help make their weekend feel even more memorable. So Chicago, can't wait to see you in June. See you there.
32:41Well, let's turn to your mother because so much, you know, everybody talks about your dad and the relationship with your dad. And your mom sits in those stands in a way that I could never. She, I mean, I just couldn't watch my kids play. But she was always there. I had the opportunity to meet her briefly. I think we were in Wimbledon for the Olympics. Yes, yeah. And I was there representing the United States for whatever reason. What sport did you get a medal? I did not. I got no medal. But you did. You got a few. But I met your mom. Talk about your mom. Tell us about that amazing woman and what you've learned from her as a mother.
33:40Well, my mom is a very strong woman. She's definitely not sharing all this information, though. Yes, really. She came from that generation where. Mine either. Yeah. Marianne is like, don't remember anything. Yes. She's very tough. My mom's very tough. And she's actually the oldest of her siblings. So she's always been a mom. Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting to be something that you've always been and then to grow up and to become a mother. And then she also took care of our grandkids. So, well, her grandkids. So my mom, you know, growing, I'll start growing up. Growing up, I wasn't the best tennis player was always Venus, who was so great.
34:23And so I was demoted to my mom's court because my dad, Venus, Venus always played with my dad. And because he was better than my mom. He actually taught my mom. My mom must have been an incredible athlete to learn how to play. Really? That fast. And so from there, I would always be on her court. And so I always wanted to be on my dad's court because he was more easygoing and he was more fun. People always think the opposite. Oh, he was easy. Yeah, really? Yes. And so on my mom's court, there was no games. I had to be serious and I had to do all this stuff. but then looking back I was able to see that she was able to instill so much mental toughness that I had that my sister actually did not end up getting because I had to do so much I had to work so hard I had to do so many more things on her court like there were no games it was so serious like it was just it's I was very in the end I was very grateful that I had that time with her to just focus on technique and focus on just not letting anything go because it really showed up in my game as a professional athlete and mentally and physically.
35:35And so that came from my mom. And so my mom, then she traveled with us. Actually, the first tournament I ever won, we had to split again. My dad was with Venus and I was with my mom in Paris. and it was my first term and I think I was like 16 and I remember we shared a room because I love Paris so I remember we were at this hotel on the other side of the river and I remember that we shared a room and she had the bed and I slept on the cot because I love sleeping on a cot okay, alright that's news you can use Serena Williams loves a cot Yes. And I remember every night, I wanted to watch cartoons every night.
36:25I don't know. Because you guys were big cartoon people. You liked Disney. I still am, by the way. I love animation. Now I'm into Marvel. I was going to let you blame that on the kids, but no. No. Still a big kid. Yeah. So I was still pretty young. I still had an excuse, though. And so she didn't mind. And so she watched it with me every night. And so it was such a good memory and it's a good moment. And I remember every night after I would win a match, because I always played this. I was in France and I played, oh, my whole draw was French people. And the stadium was probably the size of this room, but it was loud, loud, loud, loud, loud.
37:03And so every time I played, everyone was massively against me, naturally, because I'm playing their country person. Nothing personal. It was crazy. And so every night I come home like, wow, I can't believe I got through that. every night so I just kind of shut off my brain we watched some animated something and then and then that was that and so eventually when I won I was just remember being so happy and then I remember we called Venus and she hadn't won so she played another match and she won her tournament so we both won different tournaments and we were so happy and so so then you fast forward a little bit more we start winning grand slams and my mom was there for all the grand slams And our first Olympics was actually in Sydney.
37:48And my mom was there. My mom's also very clumsy. And she loves sweets. So one time we were at Wimbledon. And we see this woman hobbling along the road. And I'm like, mom, what happened? And it's my mom. Oh, my God. What's going on? I'm like, you need to see a doctor. I'm good. I'm going to get some cookies. Would you just drive past and she's hobbling along the road? We're like, why aren't you at the house? and she said, I need some cookies. I'm like, what? Like, are you, oh, you are not okay. She had a broken toe. But she was going to get her cookies. And she used to always hide cookies under the seat when we were driving.
38:30She used to hide cookies and my dad would be like, why are all these cookies up here? So she definitely has a sweet tooth, which is kind of funny. But it's, I have so many good memories of my mom. How was it like being coached by your mom? So how did that affect your, was that always good? Because we got a lot of moms out here probably did their share of coaching. How did your mom maintain that sort of special mom relationship? Or did she? So I think what a lot of people don't realize is that we travel every time we went to Australia, probably actually every time we went to France, my mom was always there.
39:11My dad actually never went to those tournaments. And so she was always our coach for all that time. And so I don't know how many Australian Opens I've won. A lot. Yes. So she basically coached me through all of them. And I remember one time when I was 89 in the world and everyone had written me off. I was like 20-something. And they said I would never win again, blah, blah, blah. and she told me before in the final before I played I think I was playing Maria in that final Maria Sharapova she was like she said you've got this you're going to do this she told me exactly how to play and I won in less than an hour and it was really genius so she actually was a very great coach and she'll say little things my mom is not someone that that's going to fill a room she's going to say one word yeah but it's going to be the most powerful word in the room and that's it.
40:03And so she'll say one thing like, you need to attack the forehand if it's low or there's something, but you have to listen. And if you listen, you can catch on to it and you can be like, okay. And that's the kind of person she is, even in life. You know, she always says like, raising my kids, she'll be like, you need to be with those girls. And so no matter what's happening in the world or what we're all going through, I always remember I got to be with those girls, you know, because she was always there with us and now that looking back like she never spent a day away from us all the girls yeah and so and then she's also the kind of person like my sister unfortunately passed early on and she's the kind of person that I remember when she found out like we all were just traumatized she just dropped everything and she moved to LA actually and then she took care of the grandkids and she raised them and she never moved back.
40:58So that's the kind of person that she is. She's very, she's used to responsibility and she has a lot on her shoulders, but she's so proud to carry it. And then now she's instilled that into all of our daughters to just carry that power, to carry that strength and to pass it on to our kids and to my kids and and all the other grandkids. So it's really, she's an amazing person. Yeah. That's beautiful. That's the quick version. It's so much that I can say about my mom, but she's really, the last thing I'll say is, yeah, we do talk about our dad a lot, and we wouldn't be here without our dad. Yeah.
41:40Obviously, we wouldn't be here without our mom. But I've always described my mom as if my, I always described us like this. My dad is the body because it was his vision. It was his goal and it was his dream. But my mom is the spine. You cannot function without that spine, the nerves that come from it, the nervous system. You can have a dream. You can have everything all set, but it's not going to work unless you have that part of you. And so that's kind of how I describe my mom. Yeah. Yeah. So what kind of mom are you? Are you a spine-like mom? I always ask this question a lot about parenting philosophy, because I think one of the things I admired most about my mom, my mom didn't go to college.
42:31My parents were working class folks. She was the middle of seven. but my mom was so emotionally intelligent and she had such great common sense just like just like your mind wouldn't have to say much but everybody wanted to hear from her and one of the things that I learned from her was that you know you just don't have kids you have to understand that you're raising people. And so her approach to raising us was to talk to us like who she wanted us to be later on. She didn't treat us like babies. She loved us dearly. But she believed that all kids are born with a level of intelligence and ability.
43:23And she treated us that way. So she taught me, like, as I grew up, I was like, my mom had this really deep philosophy about parenting, you know, stuff you learn in sociology and psychology classes just came naturally to her. So I kind of think about parenting as this huge responsibility to think about where am I trying to get my girls, not how I feel in the moment. So I always wonder what folks parenting philosophies are. And do you think you have one? And how would you describe your mothering approach? So Venus is a planner. She writes everything down. Even when she got married, it was just, boom, everything was just over.
44:14It was a lot, to be honest. Don't worry, is this coming full circle?
44:24um so she was always a person that read books like that would get through everything like would know exactly what she wants to do so i i think i'm different i don't have like a like that plan yeah i never had like a philosophy i just as organized as i am in my life like to a point where everything is labeled my parenting skills is different i kind of feel like obviously i have spiritual goals for the kids. I have, you know, ideas for education goals. I have those types of things, but I never really thought much about, um, over, I don't, my philosophy is just to be the best that I can to show up.
45:09Um, and to also be, I felt like I love my parents and how they raised us. Um, and just kind of pick and choose out of the, some of the things that they, that they raised us with in particular with my mom how she raised us so for me I really try to be a present parent um and sometimes that's hard especially with the lives that we live is very hard to be present but I try to be extremely present how do you manage that I mean everything is around my kids like if it's like if I have to do something it I never more I'm gone more than 24 hours ever normally I didn't leave Olympia until she was six for 24 hours so that was that may have been a little extreme but I that's who I am and so for me I show up every as much as I can every single day for the for the girls because I feel like they mean the most to me and I feel like they need me and they they need to make sure I I want to raise my children yeah I'm a person that's raising my kids and that's teaching them how I want them to live and how I want them to be.
46:20That's beautiful. That is beautiful. So like me you have two girls. Yes. I wanted to copy you. You were so inspiring to me. And three years apart. Way to go. How is that? I always thought I was going to have three boys. I don't know why. I don't know why. I always thought I was a bit of a tomboy when I was younger. I could see you with sons. Yeah. I followed around my brother. I love boys. I thought they were funnier than girls. I've learned you guys, you have some qualities. As she looks at Steve again. Yeah, not the target. So I always thought I was going to be the sports mom, you know. And then I have these two girls.
47:14And I am so grateful for my little women. And they are just amazing grown women now, 28 and 24 out in the world. And I can tell you I have loved every second of mothering, every second. But it's just interesting, the same gender, two girls. And I talk to my friends who have boys, and they're like, boys are definitely different, you know. Like, Malia and Sasha could sit and color for hours. We could get on a plane. And I talk, mothers of boys, you all laugh at that, right? I mean, they sit and read and color, and you can talk to them, and there's no throwing anything. I don't think we had a lot of balls around the house.
48:04Then I'd go to my brother's house who have nephews, and they would come to visit at the White House, and they'd just walk in sweaty, you know? I mean, I was like, why are they wet, you know? You just got here. And they'd come in damp and just throw cars and balls all on the first floor of the White House. And I'm like, ooh, this is different. But anyway, I digress. your precious little ladies how are they how does it feel being a mom to daughters as you know I've always wanted to be a mom I've only wanted girls I could have 10 girls I would be happy I grew up with 4 sisters yeah so I was the 5th sister I've never been around boys so when I got pregnant actually had a quick panic attack.
48:59I was so certain it was a girl. But when they took the blood to do the blood test, I was like, oh my God, I don't know what to do if I have a boy. I've never been around boys. And I really like, I was going crazy. I was like, I can't have a boy. And so I remember I went nuts. So I have no, I was like, I don't know what to do. Yeah, so that's all I know is girls. And I just always wanted girls. I've always been, growing up, I always wore dresses. I was that girl with the princess. Yes, your twirl. The twirl, you know, tutus. That was all me. And so I love dressing them up. They're actually right now, I think Olympia's wearing a Mulan dress as we speak.
49:40Of course. Because they're at Disney World. So she must be in Mulan. Yes. My idol. The little one is wearing an Anna dress. Oh, okay. So I'm like, oh, can you go buy them North dresses, please? so I'm like all that I'm just yeah so my older daughter is very much like me like very much like girly girly girl and my younger daughter is somewhat like somewhat like me I always describe her as like a she'll wear a princess dress with tennis shoes okay yeah yeah I like that in her she plays with cars yeah okay like my one of my sisters play with cars a lot so she reminds me a little bit of her. She loves Hot Wheels.
50:24But she'll wear Hot Wheels while wearing like a Rapunzel dress. It's like, where's my tiara? Give me the Corvette. I love it. And Olympia and I have never, because Olympia is five years older than Adira. So we never played with cars and stuff. So we're all like, oh, this is actually really fun. So Olympia and I are always playing with Adira's toys. They're like, oh, look it go. So it's nice that we have a little bit of a mix like that. It's really fun. Yeah.
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55:35How do you balance your parenting philosophy with your husband? What have you learned from him about parenting? So one thing he loves, he's a, and this is a positive word now. Okay, yes. He's a nerd. Yes, it is very much. Very positive. Especially a nerd with a job. Yes. We love nerds. We love nerds. Nerds pay the bills.
56:06So he's all about explaining. Uh-huh. Okay. So he'll like. A lot of explaining. So he'll like, so Olympia does something. He'll like tell Olympia like, okay, so, you know, why do you think you're learning about this? And then he goes into this whole reason as to why. And I'm like, hmm, that's good. So I like how there's a balance. He kind of gives her the reasons and she understands. She'll ask a question about something. He'll go in a deep version about it. But it's nice because then she gets that knowledge and she really gets it. And then for me, my philosophy is like, what do you like to do?
56:52How are we going to do this together? you know it's super important not to ever diminish what he's doing as as our as as the man of the house you want to make sure that you're always uplifting him that's that's my philosophy so I always want to make sure that we're on the same page yeah and also with things that I want like I want the kids to you know do this to whatever sport or to go to this school or you know just coming together for those decisions um so yeah so I feel like we work very well in that that part That's great. It's great. I always say, you know, you can have one kid and, you know, swear you're a good parent.
57:32It's like, I got this. Look at me. I know all the things. And then you have the other one. And, you know, they just, kids, babies, they come into this world as their own individual selves, truly. And that, it's a beautiful thing. I mean, like snowflakes, really. But it can be a challenge if you think that, you know, one size fits all in parenting. Yeah. As a parent, when I make a mistake, I make sure I say sorry. Absolutely. Because it is important for, first of all, to have that humility and to teach my daughter's humility. And second of all, I never want them to think that I can't, a mom can't apologize to someone younger.
58:22So I've been wrong a few times with Olympia and I am the first to tell her you were right. I didn't do that right. You were, I, you were, I'm sorry. And so it's just, I think it's a good practice for me and hopefully maybe someone else, but I feel like it's a very good thing to do. I totally agree. And I've apologized a lot. Raising kids in the public eye, you know, I mean, we both have have done it um it is it just makes the process 10 times more unnerving um because you know you worry that your kids can't make mistakes because everybody it's going to be on page six you know I mean we would have those kind of conversations about you know you know you have our girls had to learn to think like comms people, like comms directors at a very young age.
59:21And it served them well today. I mean, they are very poised, very mature, but it's a lot of pressure that they didn't ask for. How are you approaching the public nature of who you are, how you live? How are you thinking about that? at this stage in the girls life. So that's one thing that I try to do and I never as public as you. I can't imagine the scrutiny that you guys had to go through, especially the children every single day. So for me, I try to, I just try to make sure that my children are very normal. I pretty much live under a rock. I live in a very small town in Florida where I can go anywhere and it's normal because Michael Jordan also lives there.
1:00:14Sort of like. So everybody's like, we all want to go to this magical place. Where you can run into Serena and Michael at the 7-Eleven. And Tiger. And everyone lives in this small city. We're not going to divulge where that is because everybody's going to be there. And so everyone is normal, but it was really important for me not to. Normal-ish. Just a lot of athletes live in this town. Really? I don't know why. It's like, wow. But it's great because it's been normalized as we've been all living in there for so many years. But it works. And so for me, I try so hard to make sure Olympia is just like everyone else.
1:01:00She's not seen as anyone special. I don't tell her that she's special. I never told her I played tennis. When she started reading, she saw me and she asked questions. She's like, what are you doing, Mom? Come sit back in the audience with everybody else. Put that racket down, you silly goose. I remember one time in kindergarten, she's like, Mom, why are you in my book? So eventually she learned. But I don't live that life where, you know, you think that I, you know. And this is funny, but it's also very true. We also have friends that are very famous. so when we hang out with them they seem extremely normal yes yes so we go to michael's house or tiger's house it's like okay you're good yeah so it is very average for us and so that's what i want them to do i don't want them to ever feel like because i don't want them to feel they're better than anyone else or they have an advantage because that just we don't need that anymore in this system that we live in yeah we just need some kids that are just as normal as you can be So that's what I do.
1:02:10And if they want to grow up and they want to be a great athlete or they want to be a great programmer, then they have every right to do that. And, yeah, they're going to have an advantage because of the life that I've lived, you know, and the life my husband lived. Sure, they're still going to have an advantage, but they're still going to have to work hard to do there and to make any goal that they want to make. And so for me, it's super important that they understand that and that they don't feel like they're better than anyone else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hear that you served as the classroom mom.
1:02:40Yeah, I was room mom because I love my daughter. I'm obsessed. What, when, was this recently? Yeah, it was when she was in second grade. Uh-huh. Yeah. Tell us about that. Serena on the text. Everyone, you bring cookies. That was me. That was you? That was me. Oh, man. It was so fun because I got to go to the school every day or if I wanted, I could be in the classroom. Yeah. One time I was there for the spelling bee and I was like, you know, just, you know, pretending to work on the library. I was watching all the kids spell and then poor Olympia got her word wrong. And I was like, poor kid. She did her best though, but she tried, but I didn't say anything.
1:03:19I pretended I didn't hear because I didn't want her to feel the pressure that I was there. And it was so fun. I got to help organize all the, I love organizing. so I got to organize all the food for the teacher appreciation day and all the field the field trips and everything okay so your your daughter doesn't know who you are but those teachers and parents know who you are they're really cool about it like no they're really really the only they're really cool I feel like they don't you know they don't treat anyone any different throughout the whole school yeah and you know and the school is also very tough so you have to really be on it and go show up every day.
1:03:56And so it's really nice. Well, we are running out of time. And I know it's been short, but I want to give us time to wrap it up. And I would love for you to share with this room of moms, especially moms of athletes who have made a level of sacrifice. what advice do you have what parting words of wisdom do you think you can share I know that's heavy yeah I don't know about advice I feel like you guys have done it you've already you've made it I mean to be in this room is a super win already I would say I have more appreciation I'm sure you hear from your kids but if it weren't for you you would we wouldn't be here we wouldn't be on these teams and you know what I just as a as someone that had my mom supporting me you know it is I feel so grateful to my mom every single day to give me this opportunity to believe in me even when things were rough and things were down to show up every day for me you know to be there when I didn't want to be there to tell me to go an extra day when I didn't want to go You know, so I think all your sons can agree that they're super grateful for what you guys have done for them.
1:05:29Because without you, they wouldn't be there. So I think you guys deserve a huge pat on the back, a huge round of applause. And so happy for the opportunity that you've given your children. Yeah. And what's next for Serena? in life that you want to share, not trying to break news. Just, girl, I'm just like, how you doing? And what's going on? You got so much on your plate. What are you most excited about next? I'm most excited about, well, getting back to my girls. Yes. And I don't know. I feel like I have a lot of opportunities and just deciding which ones I want to go with and see. How, in which direction I'm going to...
1:06:22Okay, that was a good way to not... That was a good way to absolutely say nothing.
1:06:36I'm healthy, so I'm just happy to be healthy. You sure are, girl. You look great. Yes. You look great. Thank you. Serena, thank you. Thank you for taking the time to be with us. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for your honesty. your openness. Keep doing that. The world needs this information. They need to see their idols being normal human beings in the world, being grounded and protective of the people that they love. I am always proud of you. I'm happy to share this stage with you. And hopefully we'll do something again soon. Yes. Believe me, the pleasure was mine. I had so much fun.
1:07:18Thank Thank you all for having me. Can we take a selfie before we go? We can. I just want to say thank you to all the moms on behalf of this mom here. Thank you for your sacrifice, for your love, for, you know, setting the foundation for the next generation. It is the most important work that a person can do in life, I think, is to raise a decent human being. Because I think that if everybody took that job as seriously as everybody in this room, you know, we'd solve a lot of problems that way just by taking care of the people we choose to bring into this world. So we are grateful to you all.
1:08:16Thank you.
From the publisher
In this special live IMO episode, tennis legend Serena Williams joins Michelle to talk about all things motherhood. They swap stories about their fertility journeys, experience raising daughters, and the lessons they learned from their own moms. Plus, Serena shares what it was like to win a grand slam while pregnant!
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