Live with Tina Knowles: Lessons from a Matriarch

30:31So by the time I came along, they were really tired. And they didn't discipline me like they did my brothers and sisters. With me, they were more lax. So I was always talking stuff, talking back into everything. And so it gave me that spirit to actually stand up to them, I believe. Yeah, and you would need that. Yes. You would need that fighter. It protected me. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You were always a fighter. In fact, as they say, they called you badass Tina B. And you needed that attitude to make your way in a big family. But you also needed it growing up in the shadows of racism. Your sister Flo, who we just met, Flo in your lifetime participated in the early sit-ins that led to the desegregation of Woolworth lunch counters in Galveston.

31:32Your parents had to deal with the constant targeting of your brothers by local police. So this fear, this constant fear of needing to protect you all was real. but then you grew up into the miniskirt wearing afro midriff bearing shaft loving teen so you you brought all in all that environment um you brought all that energy um i want you to share the tell about the time that you got hauled into the police station for doing absolutely nothing. Nothing. Just being outside of a movie. And this cop came up and said, come here. And I went over and my friend Vanessa, who was really scary. And we went over and he was like, what's your name?

32:27And I said, why do you need my name? And it was all these kids waiting. And we had just seen Shaft. So, you know, I was feeling really like Shaft. Shut your mouth. That's right. And he just kept saying, give me your name. And I said, I'm not going to give you my name. I don't know why. And so he's like, well, I'm going to take you down to the station. I said, well, take me because I want to ask. And all the kids are saying, she didn't do nothing. She didn't do nothing. And so he puts us in a car and he takes us to the station. And his sergeant chewed him out. I could see him like, what are you doing?

33:01But he came out and he said, officer, the officer is going to take you home and not on the corner where he found you. And I was like, the corner? We were in the front of the movies. We were high school students. And he said, oh, well, you know, y 'all, you look like nice girls, but y 'all shouldn't be out there on the street. So he had told him this story. And when we left out, he, like, talked to us so crazy because he said the officers are going to take you home and not take you, you know, leave you on the corner where he found you or whatever. And so when we were walking out, the guy says, is your brother's name Loomis Beyonce?

33:39And I said, oh. So you're, and he said, yeah, I'm the one that kicked his. And I said, well, from where I was, he kicked your. So, you know, we had this big confrontation, and he actually called us some really bad names, and it was pretty bad, but that was just one of the incidents because he actually wound up taking me to jail. Yeah, I went to jail, y 'all.

34:11Which my granddaughter just said to me the other day, she said, you went to jail? And I was like, I didn't think about that when I put that in the book. But just riding motorcycles and racing with my brother Butch, he had a bunch of kids out on the beach, and we were racing, and this guy came up and he took me to jail, and he rode me through the park where if you come to Galveston, there's a park called Menard Park. And black people would just line up in their Sunday best and be out on the beach, and we would just walk, you know, people would walk through showing off their outfits. You'd wash your car and drive through.

34:50It was like a parade. You know, it's a little small town. B &B, y 'all know about that. Yeah, yeah. It's an old buddy place. So he drove me through that. So somebody saw me in the car, and they were like, Tina Beyonce in that police car. And I'm like, oh, Lord. And they took me to jail and did a cavity search. And I talk about that in a book, and it was the most humiliating, traumatizing thing to me to be like, I think at the time I was like maybe 18. And it was terrible. And he put me in jail, and I wound up having to pay all these fines. And we were outside of the city limits. But this guy was just like a nightmare to us because he just was after your family.

35:37Harassed my family. Everyone. Just jealous. That was mean. Just jealous. But when you talk about the fear that your mother had getting back to your mother and I'm sure your father, that fear was real. Yes. But I think the interesting thing, you know, because I talk a lot about fear, because we're living in times where we see how fear can protect you, but it can also keep you locked and small. And it's so important to be able to distinguish between the fear that you need and the fear that keeps you small. That's right. You have been able to, you know, sort of evolve past that fear. that even though your mother raised you with that real fear, there was something in you that said, I can't carry that fear because I'll get stuck like they did.

36:32Right. And that's important for young people to understand. How do you redefine yourself in an environment that is justifiably based in real fear? Well, I think that that was justifiably based in fear, and it was real. But I think that when I was a teenager, I think, well, I just think to survive, that you're living in it. You don't have a choice about it, so you just don't let yourself dwell on it. But I think that my mother's fears of things gave me a fearlessness because I didn't want to be that way. And I wanted to, if somebody was, you know, messing with my kids, then I become a beast. You know, I'm going to fight.

37:23And when somebody's trying to control me, I'm going to fight. But I got that from, you know, from just not wanting to be fearful. But what I do understand is that my mama was still behind the scenes. She was protecting us in her way. I just didn't see it when I was young. I was like, she didn't protect me, but she did the best she could do with all the fear that she had because of the things she had been through. Yeah. Yeah. How could I expect her to be fearless? Yeah. Will you say something that when I think of my mom, who you guys know, passed a year ago, but I write about her in The Light. and she was very determined to not parent the way her parents parented her.

38:15And I think that that's, you know, and I knew all my grandparents, but I also knew their weaknesses. They believed in things that kids should be seen and not heard, that, you know, the old-fashioned kind of stuff like that. And the thing I always say about my mother's parenting brilliance was that a lot of times we just emulate what we see. But, Tina, you're an example that you can change. You can be from one place, be taught a set of things, but you don't have to be of it if it doesn't serve you. Right. And so when you approached becoming a mother, because I want to talk a little bit about mothering.

39:00You made a concerted effort to be a very different mother. Yes. Can you talk about that? The things that, you know, I took the good from my mom, which was so many great things, but I also learned from the things that I felt like she didn't do such a great job on, and that was to protect my children. I think, you know, I would speak up. I would fight with people. I remember traveling with them, especially the business that they went into entertainment. It was very scary for me. And I remember having to go and fight with light people, fight with, you know, the music people. And here I was, this country woman from Texas with this big hair and this thick, thick accent.

39:49And people didn't really respect me because they were like, who is she to come in here and start telling us about light? And I'd say, well, you know, I don't know about light, but I do know that they look gray and they some black girls and you better get that blue light off of them. And I wouldn't leave until they, I wasn't aggressive, I wasn't loud. I would just stand there and they'd say, okay, well, can you move? No, when you change the light, I can move. And I protected them. I didn't let people, you know, do certain things around them. They couldn't smoke weed in the studio around them. They couldn't curse.

40:25Can you imagine my country self in there telling these producers, I'm sorry, but can y 'all not smoke in here? You know, and I remember just being, having to be a little gangster sometimes. You know? I remember one time we were in one of the first things that we went to in Florida, and there was this group, and I'm not going to say their name, but they were behind us, and they said, oh, I'm going to take a picture with these and call the girls, and they were like 16, 17, and they said it one time, and I was like, Tina. Shut up. So you could feel yourself, right? I could feel myself, so I turned around, and they said it again, and I said, I don't see your mama out here.

41:10Ooh. No, but let me tell you. What was that girl's name you had to chat? What was her name again? Medina. Medina. Like, I'm going to Medina you up in here. So the record people came, and they were like, oh, my God. Miss Tina, you cannot do that. We've got to get you to the car. And they told me the name of the group, and they were like, they will shoot you. And I was like, well, they're going to have to shoot me, because they can't talk to my girls like that. And so I did a lot of things out of just being naive, because that just came out of my mouth. You have raised the other thing about your mothering that was interesting to read about that people don't maybe not know.

41:55Your girls are like night and day. Yeah, they're very different. Two different people. And, you know, I always say about mothering, you know, you have your first child and they turn out, they're so sweet and they sleep through the night. And you start thinking, I'm such a good mother. And I know what I'm doing. and then the second one shows up and you're like, oh no.

42:22What did I do? Can you talk about how you approach sort of seeing both of your daughters for who they were? Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things is just that when somebody asks me what's the best advice I can give to them, it is always that if you have more than one child, to see that child for who they are, to try to find out what makes their clock tick or whatever, what excites them, what are their best qualities, and not compare. You know, when you grow up, that was another thing that I think my mother, she liked her boys. Oh, she liked her boys. My mother, I tell people, Craig. Yeah.

43:17I was like, what do I have to do, lady? I know, that's right. I'm the first lady of the United States. That's right. She's like, you live in the White House. She's like, but Craig's wine is so good. And I was like, oh, lady, please. I'm so glad to hear. This is why we are the way we are. That's right, that's right. Oh, my lord. But my mom, my brother Larry, that was just her heart and soul. So she'd be like, can you go in there and fix Larry dead? And I'm like, no. Fix his bed? And fix his own bed. There you go. But I think I learned from that, too, because I feel like you can't, you know, you love your kids the same.

44:02And then there are qualities about one that you like better maybe than the other. but it's so important to make them feel just as important and especially when you have a five-year gap like my girls yeah and so one of the things is you know when when uh beyonce just wanted a little sister so bad and she just loves so she got one she was ready to send her back but by the time she got to be 10 she was in that group and all of a sudden i just started noticing that uh the girls in the group would say, shut up, Solange, because Solange would be in there trying to run things, trying to teach her choreography.

44:41Trying to keep up. She was trying to keep up. Keep up with her sister. And Beyonce started letting them say, shut up, Solange. Be quiet, Solange. Mama, come get Solange, you know. And I was like, this is Solange's house. Y 'all in her house. And so I still. Don't you love Tina? Yes. No, I'm like, this is how y 'all visiting. So, you know, but I took them to therapy because I saw a division. She took these people to therapy. I love that. I did. And, you know, I remember some of my relatives saying, you're going to make them kids crazy. But I wanted them to be close. And I didn't want there to be this rivalry.

45:29and I didn't want it to be that Beyonce was not ride or die for her sister first. You don't let somebody do your sister like that. So, yeah. And so I took them to therapy, and I found this young man that was amazing, and he explained it all to Beyonce, because I had been explaining it to him, but she wasn't listening. That's what they do. That's what they do. These children. Yeah. So things got immediately better with them. Beyonce hated therapy. Solange loved therapy. And so Solange kept going. And eventually her therapist passed away. And so she stopped going as a kid. But it was just great for them.

46:18And, you know, I used to have to have a Solange day for her because when the kids are not really close together, I think it's way harder you know when they're really close together it's different but I just didn't want that rivalry and they have been close ever since. Yeah I used to have to tell Malia I still kind of do is you know I would make the point to her because they're three years apart and you know the big sister knows everything so you got the little sister at the dinner table and of course the big sister's like well that's not how you say that and why don't you know this and I would have to pull side and be like don't step on my child right you know no one stepped on you yeah you when you were her age and you sat at the table not knowing anything me and your father were like oh every word you utter is so brilliant and now exactly here you come you know making your little sister feel like that's true real not realizing that you're three years older you know so and they look up to them so much that that is very hurtful to the younger kid you know and a blow to their self-esteem but I'm the same way about not making comparisons we got to the point at our dinner table where we just didn't talk about school at all you know it would be like you know okay you you passed you I didn't want to hear about grades I didn't want to get into that because that's how the comparisons exactly because I didn't know what kind of student Sasha would be right you know um So to this day, Malia still feels like, I don't give her enough credit, but she does.

47:53She's good. Well, they are both so brilliant. I had lunch with them, and I was just like, whoa. I mean, so confident and smart and talented. Well, see, the thing is, when we get together, it's like, we don't talk. Because you didn't tell me you were writing a book the last time we had lunch. I did. Because we were so busy talking to these girls who all talk so much. They do, but it was just fascinating to hear them because it was. Those girls are, oh, I don't know what y 'all are looking for. Oh, okay. One of our many. Yeah, you know, they were so smart, and they just grew up so fast, I guess because I wasn't around them all the time.

48:36Yeah, everybody feels that way. But you know what I remember is how they are so patient and, well, I don't know about Malia. No, and I only say that because I've had, yeah. But we, no, I don't mean it like that. She had more experience. I had more experience. Yeah. But I remember keeping those kids and how patient she was with the kids. They're wonderful girls. Yeah, but the thing I like about your mothering is, and my kids say that this is the phrase they hate for me to say, I'm not one of your little friends. I know that's right. We talked about that. Yeah, yeah. I love that. I don't want to be your little friends.

49:26We can be friends later in life. And so many people are trying to be their kids' friends, and they think that that makes you closer. Cool, yeah. But let me tell you, I was not my children's friend. I loved them deeply. They, you know, there was respect. And, you know, for those of you who are trying to be friends with your kids, our kids love us just as much as adults. In fact, the relationship, I think, is even closer because now they've earned my friendship. Right, exactly. And now you can be friends. Now we can be friends. Now maybe you know something.

50:08One thing I wanted to touch on before we move on, too, is just mothering in the age of social media and this whole quest for fame and likes and being out there. And as a mother who's had to mother people through fame, can you talk a bit about the misperceptions of people who are chasing fame and how hard it is yeah and what well whether they're thinking about what they're chasing yeah you know it's not all fun and games and and the other thing is set you up for is for people to lie on you and create their own narrative about your life um i have to see it every day on social media my girls didn't want me on social media for that reason.

50:58Tina be acting up on social media. I get in trouble all the time. You know, I read something and it just makes me so angry and my fingers just start twitching and I can't control them. I got to get your thumbs. That's right. Yeah, it's true. But, you know, it's something to want fame. And that's the one thing with young people. they don't you know the the lights and the glitz it's not all good but there's a there's a lot of sacrifice and a lot of loss you you wind up you know your kids and people who have to grow up really fast and privacy is over it's over and and the protect the ability to protect your kids is nothing worse than somebody lying on your kids and saying all this horrible crazy stuff about them and it's nothing you could do because as a private citizen, you get to go on a rant on Instagram and clap back.

52:01But for me, it makes the news. And then I get the phone call. It's like, can you just be quiet? Well, let's jump ahead to the career Tina, right? Because, you know, in addition to being a ruthless mother and, you know, behind the scenes. Ruthless and loving. From one ruthless mother to another. No, but you, I love hearing about Headliners. Because that was the hair salon you started, the beauty center you started. And it sounded so much like the hair salon I went to from the time in Chicago, the time I was old enough to have money to get my own hair done, and my mother stopped pressing my hair by the stove.

52:56I got babysitting money so I could go to a real hair salon. And it was a real professional hair salon where almost all the professional black women in the city of Chicago went to. And it was called Van Cleef. and Ronnie, he was my hairdresser until the time I went to the White House. Really? Yes, yes. But Headliners reminds me of the Houston version of Van Cleef. Can you talk about why you started it, what that was like for you, what it did for you to have your own business, what it meant for you in terms of your self-esteem? Oh, God, it did wonders for my self-esteem because I actually started my salon when I realized that I was totally dependent on my husband financially.

53:45And I felt like I wanted to get out of the marriage. And I was like, what am I going to do? I just felt so dependent and it really did work on my self-esteem. So I started making this plan to open my business. Now, I have to say that my ex-husband was the person who pushed me to go to beauty school. He was like, Tina, you're so talented, and you can have your own business. And so it wasn't a thing like I just snuck and did it. And he actually helped me, gave me the seed money for it, and was like, you know, the marketing mind behind it a lot of times. But that salon allowed me the freedom to feel I was a boss.

54:28and you know that was not it would have been great if I wasn't the boss but that made it even better and and it was I wanted it to be a very professional place and my friend my one of my best friends Cheryl is here tonight too Cruzo who was always encouraging me to start the business as well yeah and she and I used to go to the salon and we loved it but they were you know selling and chicken dinners and hot stuff. And it was all this gossip going on, and the stylists would go sit down and eat the chicken dinner, and I'm like, I gotta get home to my kid. You'd be in there for four hours. I'd be in there for five hours.

55:09I was like, I can't do this. And people liked the experience, but I didn't like the experience. I hated it, and she hated it, because she was a successful businesswoman. And so I started the salon, and I wanted it to be, We didn't allow any gossip. If you got gossip, you got fired immediately. We were professional. We dressed professional. And we got people in and out. We educated the stylist on technology, and we mixed it with those old-fashioned, heating up some olive oil and putting egg whites in and, you know, all of the things that I knew the hair needed. But the main thing that happened in that place was just pure love, like camaraderie between women.

55:56Because when you provide a space that is positive without that negativity, it flourishes, and people love it, and women flourish. So it was more than a salon. It was a place of healing and not looking down, not judging anybody. just, it was church. That's what it was. We know about that. I mean, how many people here, where your hair salon is like your favorite place to be? Where all the, I know, I know. And so you provided that space, but I love the way you talk about the need to get your independence. Yes. Because your marriage wasn't always what it should have been. Right. can you talk a bit about that first marriage because I love the way you talk about Matthew I mean you y 'all you are not together right there was a long breakup it was a long long long I was just like I'm reading like Tina oh no he's back he's back

57:09many times that's what Oprah said she was like girl I was like again but it was love there but it just didn't work tell us about that I just think that people have not that I was not flawed but you know I just think people have their demons and Matthew has some demons but I never doubted for one minute that he didn't love me and those girls and that he didn't take care of me he protected me And I think in my life, when I look back on it, I realize that I stayed so long because he protected me. And I didn't have that protection so much when I was coming up. I didn't feel protected. I didn't feel fought for.

57:56Oh, they've seen the picture. Oh, okay. I know. I'm like, is that fighting? But no, I was, you know, and he protected me. And, you know, people say, God, you stayed with him for 31 years. Well, all 31 years wasn't bad, y 'all. That's right. It was a lot of really great times, and we built things together, and we were very dedicated parents, and so we had a lot of good things, too. And I don't have anything bad to say about him. I mean, I don't. Yeah. I've forgiven him, and, you know, he's forgiven me for some times because I'm badass teeny beef, so I'm not trying to act like I was an angel. I wasn't an angel.

58:39What were some of the lessons you learned about yourself in your marriage or in the exiting of your marriage? Well, what I learned about me in my exiting is that, again, that message keeps reoccurring to me that I am enough. Because I realized that I probably would not have stayed if I had just taken the time to really look at myself and give myself credit for all the things that I had accomplished. I was just trying to survive from day to day. It was always some, you know, in therapy they tell you, and I've been in therapy forever, that if someone slaps you in the face and you're trying to recover for it and you get slapped again, you never can recover and get your strength because you're just slapped.

59:30I'm not saying he was slapping me. No, that wasn't happening. Don't start no rumors. But no, but I'm just saying like it wasn't only my marriage. It was like my parents dying. I lost my parents at my mom at 26 years old. Six months after I got married, then I lost my dad two years later. And, you know, it was just one thing after another. It was always something that was happening that I was fighting. And I realized that my whole life has just been filled with challenges. and when you take the time to stop and convince yourself that you are enough and that, you know, you're going to be just fine whether you're with someone or not.

1:00:18Say that part one more time slowly. You are. You know, you will be just fine and you will get, it's called getting through it because you ain't going to get stuck there. there's light at the end of the tunnel and you're going to go through it and you're going to come out on the other side and whether you are you know young or old I wish I would have learned that lesson a lot earlier you know I mean I'm trying my best because I know that when it comes to raising daughters and women you know we're socialized to think that we aren't good enough We're socialized to think that we need somebody else to make us whole.

1:00:58And that starts so young. It starts with Barbie dolls and Ken and the wedding dress and the questions that we ask our daughters. My grandmother, when I'm in law school at Harvard, y 'all, my grandmother, I would call her to check in, and she'd be like, what you make for dinner? And I was like, nothing, Grandma, I'm in law school. I don't even have a kitchen in my dorm. Right. You know, but it was the message. It was the message. So I'm trying to figure out how to not program that in my girls and the girls in my life. Because, you know, if you ask somebody, are you dating somebody? You know, they might be happy, but then you're asking them, well, you're happy, but are you dating somebody?

1:01:46And then they're dating somebody, and then it's like, oh, you're dating somebody when you're getting married. Right. And then it's on and on and on. When you don't have a baby. and when you're going to have a baby. And that's not for everyone. It's not for everyone. That's true. So what would you tell young people out there about marriage and how they should think about it? Well, I think that marriage is wonderful, and I hope that it is in everyone's future because I think it's a beautiful way to build a life together. But that the person that you choose to build it has to be on the same page.

1:02:19There you go. They can't be on a different page. You know, but I think that love is wonderful, and I hope that everyone finds it. But if you are not with a partner, I think you can have just as fulfilled, full of a life. And that it's better to be by yourself than to be with somebody who don't get it. Yes. Yeah. Or that's not so exciting when you walk into the room that they understand that you are a prize, you know? I want to talk a bit about Uncle Johnny because, you know, through it all, right? Because you were managing a salon, two creative girls who had careers skyrocketing, trying to travel, trying to keep a marriage together.

1:03:12And it sounded like Johnny was a huge part of helping you keep your life together. you want to talk yeah well johnny was uh you know by the time the girls got going really well he was you know he was really sick yeah but just in my life since i was born that was the person that i trusted more than anybody in the world that i felt like never judged me yeah and um and didn't judge anybody else and that was just the most creative free person because think about being born in that time. If I was born in 54, he was born in, what, 1950, and he knew he was gay from probably three or four years old and how hard it was, but Johnny was my light.

1:04:03You know, my mama used to say, when Johnny fought, you got to be there to catch it, and it was true because I just was there. You know, every day he was my best friend. And I could just be really, really free with him. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was amazing. He could cook. He could sew better than anybody. He was the sharpest. He would make these beautiful clothes. And he would be genuinely himself in front of anybody, you know, and not hide any part of him. I was so in awe of that, you know, how free he was. Yes. Yeah. And he, you know, he came to work for me at the house. And, you know, it was the even that gave me so much freedom because I knew that he was taking such good care of my girls and they loved him.

1:04:55They adored him. He's the reason why, you know, there is a renaissance. And he's a big reason why that I was able to do those costumes and all of that. He affected my life more than anybody else in my life. You have spent your life taking care of everybody else. You're doing it to this day. I mean, in the midst of your book tour, your mind, I know, is back there. And, you know, I can see your brain working up here. and sometimes that can take a toll and for you at one point you know you weren't focusing on your health yeah and you share in the book that you almost missed a life-changing diagnosis you want to talk a bit about yeah just um and you know I struggle I have two endings to the book and if you guys when you read the book you'll see that it's like an ending of the book and then I go back and talk about my cancer journey.

1:05:57And the reason why I did that is because in 2022, I made my mammogram appointment. And right before it was to happen, COVID came. And they called me and told me, you know, we're not doing them in person, but we'll call you when we start again. So in my mind, I just got so busy with everything else that I did not go in 23, when it came back, you know, around that time I thought I had gone in 22 and then 24 came and I was like I gotta go have my mammogram I gotta get all of my health things so I did them and um and they actually found um like a some spot on my cervix and so I went back and had that biopsy and it was fine so I was like I'm fine I don't need to rush to have the mammogram but I waited and waited it was like five or six months before I went back, not the mammogram, but the biopsy.

1:06:55And then when I went and they said, oh, you have cancer, I was like, not me. Like, it was so shocking to me. And even though it was early stages, I flew to Houston to tell my sister Flo, and I said, well, I have the first, you know, I have the lowest stage. I have stage one. And she said, no, actually, it's a stage zero. And it just hit me that I could have got this at stage zero. And I am so blessed because they still got it very early and I didn't have to go to radiation or chemotherapy. Thank you, Jesus. But the point is, is that I could have kept going and not going. And it could have been stage four by the time I went.

1:07:36So I wanted people to think about that for a second. And I can tell you that one of the best things to come of this is on my Instagram, I can't tell you how many people said, I'm going to go get my mammogram. I've been putting it off for three years. You know, we have to, as women, take the time to take care of ourselves and go get our exams and not just put it off because there's so much going on all the time, and you want to take care of everybody else. Please, y 'all, listen to this. It's the truth. Because this is so prevalent in our community, and not just women, but it's men. Men too, yes.

1:08:14And, you know, breast cancer is not a death sentence in the way that it was. It is if we aren't checking. It is if we get too busy and life gets in the way. But with regular screening and really, you know, people should be going to the doctor. And I know in a time when people don't have health care, it's expensive. You know, this is why we need to have health care, which is why it matters who is in the White House, why you should be voting on and on and on. Because having access to regular care will save your life. Right. And me, you know, I was in the Hamptons. I was just having a good time. and I say that because I planned, I was there and I was like, I'm just going to stay another few weeks and then something just hit me one day that Tina, you better go back and get that biopsy.

1:09:17You are being very irresponsible right now. So I went home, you know, I went home I think two days later and my kids were like, stay, don't go back and, you know, I went. And thank God I went. Because I would have came back and got busy and then it would have been another year. And that's what happens to us. So please, please do that. We're coming to a close. But I want to, I know, I know, I know. I'm looking at the clock going, you lie. You clock, you lie. But I've got some fun rapid fire closing things I want to do. But Tina, I want you to talk a little bit about sort of finding your wisdom or acknowledging your wisdom.

1:10:08Because there's so much wisdom in this book. But I know you're like me. and I've said this before, but at 61, I am just now willing to recognize that maybe, just maybe, I know something about something. I know. It's true. And I'm just wondering how you feel about why does it take women so... I don't know. Why does it take us so long as women to own our wisdom? I think, you know, it's funny because I said people approached me about a book before and even when they approached me this time which was different um I kept saying I'm not telling y 'all my kids business so if that's why they want to do a book deal then I don't want to do it because I'm not going to share other people's stories I'm not going to tell their business but just the fact that I didn't feel like my story was worthy yeah or that anybody wanted to hear about my story.

1:11:12It's crazy. And I had to, you know, go in. And when I first talked to them, I was like, I'll do a book on behind-the-scenes things that happened, but I'm not going to do a memoir. And, you know, Kevin O 'Leary is somewhere in the audience, too, and I would love for him to stand up. He is my collaborator. And, you know, when you write a book, your collaborator is so important because he's the person that went and found all this history on Weeks Island and Galveston and and you know he taught me some things and he fact checks things because you know in your brain I'm like oh but I was 19 so and so and he's like no that didn't happen then really because he's fact checking and then you argue with him like no right right don't But in talking to him at first, he was the one that encouraged me to just be more open.

1:12:10He's like, Ms. Tina, people would love to hear about that. And I was like, you think so? And he's like, yes. And we, you know, this book was 1 ,000 pages. We had to take 500 pages out. Can you imagine? So it's so many more stories. Part two. Part two. Is that part two? Are the publishers in the house? but yeah so I didn't even think that people would want to hear I was like they're just going to want to hear about my kids but it's so much of the book that I that you go through before you even hear about my kids that's why you're number one on the bestsellers list well I I am I'm grateful that you uh have shared your story with us um but before we close let's do something fun okay i would love that we're gonna have some fun in the spirit of the imo podcast we are gonna do a special in my opinion rapid fire segment i'm gonna call out a few prompts and i want you to tell all of us the first things that come to mind okay the ultimate style icon is oh god it's too many to i mean i have so many style icons back from the 40s um you know just I don't know, Diana Ross.

1:13:32Well, I think that's a good one. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Okay. I don't know. Too many. Diana Ross, Cher. I take those. I think those are good. A good date must include? Good music. Oh. Yeah. Some dancing. Do you have a song that just gets you like, hmm? You know, my favorite song is For the Love of You by the Isleys. That's just the best. Oh, yes. The best soul food dish is? It's not your IMO. Just soul food. Some good old cabbage and mac and cheese and greens. You know, this is like true. There is no soul food dish. Soul food is an experience. It is an experience. It's many dishes. Yes, it's love.

1:14:30All right, the best show on TV right now is? Oh, God, the best. I know, that's hard. Do you even have time to watch TV these days? Not a lot. I have to be honest. I haven't watched it a lot. But I love Sisters. Oh, yeah. I love Sisters because it is just, it's some real stuff on there. Tyler just gets it, you know? Tyler tends to do that. He does that. It's real. And, you know, people can talk all that stuff, but I'm like, I know somebody just like every one of those girls. The best movie ever made. Ooh. The best. Kulihai. Oh, yes. Kuna. You know, I still, you know, when he gets beat up and up under the L.

1:15:21Don't you cry? I cry every time. I cry still. I'm like I've seen this 75 times. sometimes, but I still cry. Do the young people even know what we're talking about? No. Listen, you have to give up your black card if you haven't seen Cooley High. If you haven't seen Cooley High. Hand it over. Put it on the stage. Hand it over. Your black card. And the five heartbeats. Right. OK, a green flag. A green flag invading that's often overlooked. A green flag. Oh, God, a green flag. I think just someone being, for me, being a gentleman. Yeah. Just being kind. Yeah, being kind. Just straight up kind. Forget how much you make, just be kind.

1:16:05Right, exactly. One thing that's changing in your life right now for the better is I am really feeling myself right now. Woo! Woo! Feeling myself, feeling myself. Woo! I like that.

1:16:28An underrated beauty hack.

1:16:37Probably this ice thing. Have y 'all tried the ice? You put your face in the ice? Yes, put your face in the ice or either get an ice cube. Blue taught me this. Okay. You take the ice cube. It's the baby. And it tightens up. Yeah, they get all the hacks off of you. YouTube. So how long do you have to put the ice on your face? Well, you can take an ice cube. Well, actually, Jules taught me that. He was like, Grandma, you don't have to put your face in it. OK. Because that's really hard. But just use the ice cube. And it kind of lifts up stuff. You know, at my age, you got to try everything. I'm going to.

1:17:08First of all, Tina, you are beautiful. You have not aged one iota. I mean, you are looking so good. So tell us as we close, what does it truly mean to be a patriarch? To be a patriarch? To be a patriarch. Oh, I think to love unconditionally your children, your grandchildren, the people that you have in your life, and to be respectful and just, you know, a father figure to people that is not all about being about yourself. like an unselfishness. Yeah. That's what it pays. I mean, you know, handling things. Handling, handling things. And Tina Knowles is handling some things, y 'all. This, I just want to say thank you for inviting me to open your book tour.

1:18:14You know, there is, there's so much about you that I knew, but I learned so, so much more about you in these pages that makes me just love you so much more. Y 'all, we didn't even, we just barely scratched the surface. There are so many good stories in this book. There's so much wisdom that you spit out, and with this level of humor and honesty, you will be cracking up, you will be crying, you will feel renewed, and you will walk away learning something, which is what IMO is all about. Thank you. Thank you for your honesty, your candor. And I'll see you on tour, right? I see you out there. I love you, everyone.

1:18:57Everyone, big hands for Tina Knowles. Thank you. I love you.

1:19:46you Thank you.

1:20:17Thank you.

1:20:48Thank you.