Patent Leather Boots and Purpose with Keke Palmer

28:18I mean, instead of choosing Dior for my inaugural gown, I chose Jason Wu. He was an immigrant. He was young. His story mattered in a way that I knew that choosing him to make my gown would change his life in a way that some of those longtime designers, you know, it's like you had your turn. And I also love that you would be wearing J.Crew. I mean, I remember that as a teenager and the lady would be like, she's wearing J.Crew. I love J.Crew. How are you going to talk about J.Crew when your wife wears J.Crew? Like, I love that because it's like, that is a universal, affordable, very nice line. I remember that being such a big topic growing up because it was accessible.

29:02Yeah. You know, and people felt like they could relate to you. Like, she shops where I shop. Well, fashion is like that. You know, fashion is high end. It's designers, but it's also it's also the beautiful stores at the mall that get us through the J.Cruise, the Banana Republics. You know, Monaco. I used to love Monaco. Exactly. Why was I loving that at 14? Exactly. All of that is about the American experience. And I was like, well, and I did not wear a lot of European designers, not because I don't love European design, but I am the American first lady. So I'm going to rep U.S. brands. So when we would travel abroad, I was like, I'm going to wear an American designer.

29:46If we were in India, it was an Indian immigrant American designer. I mean, there were so many ways to work around representation. Absolutely. That if you, by being thoughtful and strategic about how we wanted to show up. And repping black designers. Tracy Reese. My dear friend, Sergio Hudson. That's my guy, right? I love him so much. I mean, there are just so many amazing minority women designers that it was easy for me to make those choices. To do that mixing up, right? And we also had to think about the cost of some of these clothes. I mean, being first lady, Barack would look at the clothing bill and be like, girl.

30:32I'm like, dude, just stand down. Just stand down, dude. Don't look at my clothing bill. Do you remember the look you wore on your first date? Oh, our first date. You know what? I don't. I know that was a deep cut. You know, I remember what I was wearing when we had our first kiss. Oh, my gosh. Give us the details. I do remember that. Now, I hope he's happy that I remembered that even before the first date. But I remember it because we were going to, he was a summer associate at the law firm I was working for. So they had this summer associate outing at a partner's house in the uppity rich part of Chicago in one of the northern suburbs.

31:23So we had gone out there for the day and played basketball and volleyball and all that. And I gave him a ride because he had a janky car and I was driving a Saab. So I was like, you want to ride with me? So I had to take him back. And he was like, are you busy? And I was like, I got a little time. and we went on a walk down 53rd Street and stopped to get ice cream. I was wearing black biker shorts. Uh-oh. And this black and gold striped top. And it was like sleeves. It was like a bow neck. It was short sleeves. And it was sort of a long T-shirt. Oh, cute, cute. I remember that clearly because we went and got ice cream and sat outside the ice cream place on the curb.

32:10I had chocolate. and he leaned over and he said, can I have a kiss? He asked you. He asked me, girl. Girl, I see the movie now. I don't know who the man is, but I'm you. The love story. Kiki Palmer as Michelle Obama. I'm here for that moment. Okay, my publishers are here. You know they're working on that now. They're going to start that. I need the romance. I want it to be the love story. Yes. Oh, that is so special. I remember that. I remember what I had on. I mean, your life has been so public. I mean, it can never really go backwards. And I know I'm always hearing you say this when we talked on your podcast, when we talked on my podcast, when we're talking right now.

32:52You seem to have no qualms about protecting your inner world and your sense of self. I want to distill that for the audience. Like, what is that process for you? How does one protect their inner selves being so perceived? And now we have it on the Internet. Even if you're not an entertainer or you don't decide to be a public figure, every single one of us is being perceived constantly. And once you are perceived or you are viewed, you change, right? You're not who you are in your room alone when somebody's watching you. You become someone else. So how does one preserve that sense of self? You know, it's becoming more and more difficult with AI, social media.

33:33I mean, you know, just to put it in perspective, Kiki, when when we entered the White House, there was no social media. There was social media did not exist. And thank God it did not. Right. We had Blackberries. Y 'all remember the Blackberry? I used to love BBM. I mean, they didn't let Barack as the president have an iPhone because it was a security risk. Right. Right. So I think, first of all, that helped a bit because social media was just starting. Right. Yeah. We were the first presidency coming into being at the beginning of social media. So I think that helped a little bit. So I wasn't used to being able to know everything that everybody said about me.

34:27right that wasn't a possibility yeah right you you know what you got feedback on came through the press it was an article written and it would be an article right you weren't getting 24-hour news feeds you didn't have a comment section to listen to so fortunately for me I didn't even grow up needing that in a way that this generation does yeah so another layer to it you're bringing It was just another. So when it became part of my reality, social media, I wasn't addicted to it. Right. I didn't I didn't need it. It wasn't on my phone. I'm still not in the habit of looking at social media. I'm on it, but not of it.

35:10You know what I'm saying? And I'm always warning young people to very be very careful and monitor your access to that. I mean, it's just like you just don't need to give that many people access to your heart and your mind. And the only way you can control it is to not be in it. And you can be on it, but don't have it on your phone. And I just never did. So I just didn't get in the habit. I had a whole communications team. I could get press clips. I could get them summarized and laid out without knowing the depths of everybody's thought, right? And that's good and bad, right? You know, if you get too much of the good, you get distorted.

35:57If you get too much of the bad, you get distorted. And I also knew that if people weren't getting me right, I couldn't trust it to tell me about you. I mean, I wouldn't trust social media to tell me about my worst enemy. Yeah. Because it wouldn't be a clear depiction. It wouldn't be real. It wouldn't be right now. Yeah. So how do I protect my space? I just really protect it. I don't let just anybody into my space. I don't listen to comments from people who don't know me. I never would do that. You're not displacing value. I try to get my daughters, just don't touch it. It's like, it's dynamite, right?

36:41Yeah. So that's one way. Another way that I protect my space is who I let in it. You know, it's like my community, my friends, my people. I mean, Barack and I have been very good about the people who have been with us. We bring them along. You know, Barack, his best friends are still his guys from high school. I mean, he's got a crew of guys from Hawaii who are with him like this. I've got girlfriends from law school to mothers that I raised my girls with. Those are my ride or die people, the people who know us outside of this before we were ever this. And those are the people who I talk to and I'm having wine with, who I'm breaking stuff down with.

37:28You know, that's where I get my connection. How am I doing? I would get that from my mother. I mean, having my mother in the White House now, Marianne Robinson will keep a person grounded because she wasn't pressed about anything. And having her there that I could just sit down with and look in the eye and be like, am I still the Michelle you knew? And she would tell me the truth. So I think it's who we surround ourselves with, the company we keep. And I keep expanding. I mean, when I find good people like you, I scoop you up. Right. So right there. You get old enough where you start trusting your judgment.

38:09Right. You I tell my girls, you got good judgment. So be open to new people, because some of the best people in my life are people that I met during the White House years and beyond. Right. I've made some good friends over the last 10, 15 years. And if I had been closed off to them, I wouldn't know them. But let me tell you, as quickly as you let people in, you got to be good with letting them out when they show you who they are. And they will show you. You know, the older you get, the more you recognize, oh, you don't you know, you don't have me in mind. Right. You're not on my team. So you start learning to trust those instincts and you don't have to be rude about it.

38:55I call it the slow ghost. You know, you just slowly let people out of your life. You don't have to make a big deal out of it. You don't have to tell nobody off. You just slowly disappear like a ghost. So I'm hearing, obviously, keep a good circle around you. That also helps you to maintain grounded and reflect your truth back to you. We don't let too many people in. Again, with social media, there's a thing you read and you just assume that that's somehow that person's valid. They don't overvalue. And they don't know you. They don't know you.

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43:55in terms of you know we're bringing up Sasha Malia your amazing daughters and young women in general coming up online seeing so many conflicting things around beauty I mean I would be remiss not to connect that to what we're talking about with the look how do young women properly define their value in their relationship to beauty when on one side they're saying you need this thing you need that thing you need this makeup you need this hair and then the other end it's like inner beauty you know but you need to have glass skin too like how it's so much coming at them it is it is and it's not right it's not right i mean i what i try to do to my with my daughters and a lot of the young girls in my life um i just remind them that they are being marketed to you know that this is like this is about money all right somebody telling you to buy this lip gloss this do this try that it's all it's all your algorithm so i just try to talk honestly and seriously with them about how the economy works and how the beauty industry works.

45:04I try to lift them up. You know, Barack and I tell our daughters, we have told our daughters from the day they were born that they were beautiful and more importantly, smart and worthy. And we just keep saying it over and over again. When I meet some young girls, I met some beautiful young girls backstage and all I wanted them to know is that they were beautiful and for them to keep it up and to be smart and to read you know it's just I try to feed into them whatever is being sucked out of them on the other end but it isn't easy we don't set it up so that it is easy for young girls to find themselves in the midst of all of this but I try to get my daughters to stay off social media, to not read the comments, to do other things other than be on their phones.

45:57But I also want them to feel good about playing in their beauty. And I mean, I feel like having had the experience of being so looked at in the White House, they still have such unique style. I remember I was saying, as soon as I seen them, I was like, I love your fashion. I was saying that to Sasha. And they're both very different. They're very different. Sasha gonna give you that boho sheet. Oh my God, yeah. You know what I mean? Emily on their Zoe Kravitz. Like, I live for their fashion. But I wanted them to play in that space. So I was like, yeah, try that. Try that. You know, their dad didn't always understand it.

46:34Sure. Sometimes he's like, why is she wearing those lashes? I was like, let her play. It's not going to be that important in a minute, you know? I mean, so there is also fun in beauty. Yes. You know? And I think it should be fun mostly. It should be fun. So it's like striking a balance that, you know, I try not to comment too much. You know, if they look good, I'm like, okay, you're playing in that space. I just try not to judge it. Now, our deal when we were in the White House was that, because I understood how social media and the press would go after them, as like when you're with us, that was really the only time, that was the deal we had with the White House press corps, is that you cannot take photos or write about the girls in their private life, but if they were doing an official thing with us, okay, that's when you saw them at the Christmas tree lighting or when we were seeing Nelson Mandela or they were on an official trip.

47:35But they had to be dressed for that. I was like, you can have a say, but you got to work with somebody on what you're going to wear because you got to wear a certain thing when you go see the Pope, you know? You can't show up with your belly out when you see the Pope. So I'm not going to leave that to a 13-year-old. It's like, no, you don't get to choose because you don't know what you're doing, right? Yes. I mean, you have to think about the look, every aspect of it. So we had a deal that when you were on in your first child role, we all it was a cooperative effort in terms of what they dress how they look they had a say but it had to be signed off on by people like their mother and somebody with some sense right yeah yes but in their regular lives as little girls they chose their prom dresses they chose what they wore to school they chose how they did their hair and their nails and I was like you play all you want and I wanted them to play and to get used to what their style was and to make mistakes yeah you know all teenagers look back on their pictures and they think oh my god what was I thinking but you need those moments it's like yeah that was a little crazy I started playing more after because I was always on some little Doogie Howser vibe everything when I was a teenager I always had a blazer on I was really the VP I was tired of that when I look back on my pictures All I was doing was, I'm on Oprah.

49:05I'm everywhere I go, I'm at my first party. Like, girl, go away. I don't know why I was so serious, child. Did you get to choose all of your fashion? I did, but I was very stressed as a kid. You know, because I felt so much responsibility. And I started to hear very early on because the adults or people would come, my daughter looks up to you and you i'm watching you baby and i'm like oh no the aunties i gotta you know so i was always trying to just you know but then it got to a point where it was a little too much black girl magic right which is like oh child i can't handle every day i was always at church and i was just trying so hard to make sure that i made everyone proud that it i was not living for me yeah and so i had to kind of redefine the look this is what i was talking about i mean that burden it's like mine you know i was a grown woman i could be a doogie hauser if i needed to i mean you were growing up you were trying to figure it out and i tried to do the opposite of that i didn't but that was that was also your job you were also in the profession and that was a choice that you made because you enjoyed that yes malia and sasha didn't choose it right i think that's also a different thing.

50:27It is. So I didn't want them to feel like they were carrying a burden with something that they had no say in wanting to be and I think that's, you know. And I love hearing you talk about that because you know I got my son. He's three and he's going to grow up now with, you know, people, oh, your mom is Kiki Palmer, whatever that means and whatever comes with that. And so I love hearing you talk about responsibility and legacy with how you do with Sasha and Malia because it makes me think about how I want to be able to also articulate those nuances to my son. For him to have freedom, to understand what it means, but to also never feel like what I've taken on is something that he has to take on.

51:03So it's very empowering for me. And you don't have to be Michelle Obama or Kiki Palmer to feel that. If you are a parent that has a child that you feel feels pressured to follow in your footsteps, we all as parents are trying to figure out that balance of letting our kids be who they want to be without them being mini-mes. So it's the same struggle, y 'all. It's just that our struggle is on TV. Yeah, it's so true. I always feel like that, you know, we're all living the same kind of thing just from different vantage points. So I love how you brought that down.

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55:39What is the difference between, to you, assimilating to make it through an experience versus thriving in it? oh my goodness well you know assimilating through I think it's too is too self-conscious I think thriving through it means that you really are in your purpose in the moment like when you're in your purpose in the moment nothing else matters and let me give you an example, when I'm with kids and when I was first lady working with kids, what is, was, will always be my joy, my heart. I can break down now just talking about the value and worth of every child. Amen. And when I am with young people, I am there.

56:39I am in it. It doesn't matter what I have on. In In fact, the clothes I have on, they better not get in the way of that interaction. Because the more important thing is not what I look like, but how do I make that kid feel? And if I'm all stuffy and in some dress that can't be touched and can't be wrinkled, I am not in my purpose, right? So in those moments, the clothes have to facilitate the thing I'm trying to do, which is connect with this kid right now. And if that means I got to get on the floor, you know, if I've got to get down to their level, if that means we're going to do a push-up together or we're going to run around or somebody's going to want to sit on my lap or give me a sloppy little hug, then the clothes have to be ready for that.

57:26And I would tell my stylist that all the time. It's like if kids are around, don't put me in something precious because you know the minute a child comes, I'm on the floor. I am doing whatever I have to do to connect and I think that that's when you you're no longer conscious you're no longer self-conscious right losing yourself in the purpose whatever that you used you know whatever accumulated you to that point that got you prepared once you're in it that all disappears that's right that's right it should your your self disappears into the work that's important, right? And when it comes to clothes, the clothes are not, they're never the point for me.

58:11You know, I love to look cute. I love a pretty dress. But if I'm in a dress and a child doesn't feel like they can connect to me, then what's the point? You know, if my dress is saying more than what I'm trying to say to some young person, then get it off of me. It's not, it is not serving me and is no longer important to me, right? And I think that for me, it's children. I think each and every one of us has to find, when we find that thing that is so deep in us, the thing that moves us so much, all the external stuff, how we look, how we move, all that becomes secondary to the purpose. And I think that that for me is what helps me stay present and not be self-conscious.

58:59because if I'm doing what I'm supposed to do and if I'm changing a life or I'm making a move, if I'm making somebody feel seen, especially a young person, then I don't care what somebody says about me. That seems like a great way to also figure out if you are in fact doing the thing you should be doing because maybe if I'm not able to lose myself in it like that, then it isn't for me to begin with. And again, we don't always all get to live in our purpose, right? Well, let's break that down. I think we strive to live there, but again, reality sets in, right? These are high-class problems. I get to pick and choose now, right?

59:40And most of us don't get to live in our purpose. We got to do what we got to do to keep it together. It is hard. That doesn't mean we don't strive for it, but, you know, I don't want to set it up in a way. Like, I know what real life is, right? I know that my father, my father was an artist. My father got a scholarship to the Art Institute. He could have been a great artist, but some of his work is now up at the Presidential Center. A piece of art that I didn't even know he did. I didn't see it until it was there. My father was talented, gifted. He was an artist. He did not live in his purpose, right?

1:00:25But he made us his purpose. He made his children his purpose, right? And I think that made him self-conscious. I think it made him forget about his limp. I think it made him forget about the fact that he was a blue collar worker. I think it made him forget about all the things that he didn't have and couldn't get. Because his purpose was us feeding into me and my brother. And there are a lot of people out there. I mean, I think most people, most of our parents and our grandparents who don't get to do what they want to do because of racism, limitations, lack of opportunity, they don't get to live their purpose.

1:01:05And then we, their offspring, become their purpose. Well, what you just broke down was just so dope as well, because sometimes we assume that what we are gifted with is our purpose, right? We talented. We can sing. We can do this. Our purpose actually could be something that is my children or this community center. I think that is so important what you said because a lot of times we're taught that value and purpose is predicated on how much attention it brings. Or how much money it makes. And that's not really true. Or how famous you are, right? That's new to this generation, right? So I think there are many ways to get lost and to become less self-conscious about the spaces that you're in.

1:01:51If you're going to a job where somebody is treating you badly, but you know that check is going to get your kids a college, there are a lot of people I know who put up with some crazy stuff because they're keeping their eye on the prize. They're not dealing in their own happiness or fulfillment or meaning. I know there are men and women out here today who are getting up going to work at jobs they don't like because it's putting food on the table and sending their kids to college. It is serving a purpose much bigger than them. How important is it do you think to have an end date on that? I ask this because someone had mentioned that to me the other day when I was stressed.

1:02:32You know, because you know me. I'm unfortunately always trying to do so many things. Yes, child. And I've always got a thing, a mission. And they were like, well, when's the end date on that? What do you mean the end date on stress? Not on stress, but for instance, is there an end date on this job that they hate? Meaning when I get to year three and I made X amount of dollars, do you think it is important for us to do that when we're in these situations that may not be that fitting for us? Like we have an end date. Look, by March, it's March right now. By August, I'm going to X, Y, and Z. Do you think that's even a fair way to move?

1:03:10I don't. I think we all have to. What I try to figure out, what I have still tried to figure out is what is my happiness? Mine. And I think we all have a different definition for it. What I have learned in all these years with all the powerful tables that I've sat in and all that I've seen, the thing that I know is that it has nothing to do with how much stuff I have how much how big a house how much money is in the bank account even though there is a number that matters that makes life a lot easier I have learned that for me enough it comes when I feel like I have friendship I have love I have a good community around me and I feel like I have given something to somebody else I don't know that there's an end date on it in terms of the due but at some point I have to be settled I have to say I am enough I have done enough I am okay, you know that's all an internal struggle Like the end, we have to figure it out for ourselves, right?

1:04:35I mean, I know. What a doozy. I know. Because, you know, it's one of those things where it's also tailor-made is what I'm hearing. We're all on our own individual relationship with that. But I think it starts with how we feel about ourselves. you know I mean I think we can we can work for all this external approval somebody else to tell us that we're beautiful we could wait and hold our breaths to have somebody else love us enough you know but in the end the work is really with us on us you know it's the war it's the finally sitting in your own head and saying i don't need anyone else to tell me that i'm worthy and that's that is it's almost like the look is based on what we see when we look in in the mirror you know that that's a huge part of it is like accepting our own gaze yeah and being happy with what we see and it's amazing that when we get to that place everything else seems to settle down around us, you know?

1:05:47Because I think we're carrying that frequency. We're carrying that energy with us that probably, yeah, just changes the game. And we're starting not to give a mm about what somebody else says and thinks. And that takes a minute. You know, you earn that wisdom, you know? And that's why, Kiki, don't be, don't get impatient with yourself. You 12 and a half. I am impatient. You know that. You are a baby. And some of this stuff, wisdom is for the old. You know, it takes time to go through some stuff. And at 62 years old, I am developing, I'm still growing, still developing some wisdom, but it's all about how I see me.

1:06:31You know, it is that, it's that gaze of myself, right? Wow. Wow. That is so awesome. Well, time is coming to an end. I mean, there's so many more things that I can ask you. We got to do a part two, three, four, five, like always. But before we go. Yo, it's ladies night. There's a lot more coming. You be happy to get on with it. Oh, yeah. They got a lot of fun stuff coming to the stage. This is going to be a good night. But before we leave, you know, I love to play a game. So I thought we could play a fun game. We're going to play a game. Keep it, change it, leave it. Okay. Keep it, change it, leave it.

1:07:10So it's a little rapid fire. I'm going to give you some prompts. Oh, Lord. I got to be rapid? Oh, Lord. You know, the rapid is always crazy because, like, honestly, how fast do I have to be? Really? You're going to tell me if you want to keep it, change it, leave it, and then you'll tell me a little bit of why, maybe. Okay. Okay, here we go. The first one is power suits. Keep it. You know, there's nothing wrong with a good power suit, especially if you can wear pants. I hate pantyhose. I am done. Pantyhose always tear. Like, why they make them so thin and frilly? You know, that's why they mess with us.

1:07:47They make us wear something that you can wear once. It's a dumb thing, dumb invention. Being the first, like the first, you know, carpenter, the first, you know, black female president. Keep it for sure. We better be ready for some firsts. There's a lot of stuff we didn't get to do, so we want to keep the firsts. We still have. We got our ways to. I like that. We got a lot of stuff we're trying to get in, so we want to definitely keep that. A lot of times people are hard on the firsts, but I feel the same way as you do. That's okay. Let's continue to break down the wars. We're prepared for it.

1:08:18We're prepared for it. We've been preparing for years to be the first. Perfectionism. Perfectionism. What was it? Keep it. Change it. Leave it. I would change it change the meaning of it I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to do your best but not placing everything not making that be the reason for everything I think change what it means keep it but change the don't let it mean so much exactly I took that that was me personally okay girl boss culture girl boss culture yeah you know i guess the way i would describe it is like you know just this idea of being you know needing to be a boss you know like oh i'm a boss i'm a boss of this or that you know the idea around that the best role position is whatever a boss is well i don't know i don't know if i i i would leave that right because like you should be the role that is suited for you and not everybody wants to be a boss and that's okay that's not always the best position let me tell you being a boss sucks sometimes you know it's not all that it's cracked up to be so I I would I would leave it yeah yeah I feel you I agree um working twice as hard you kind of said something similar to this with the perfection I think I know what you might would say.

1:09:53Yeah. Look, I would keep it. Because I always think even if I work twice as hard, even if you don't see it, I'm still better than you.

1:10:10I still win. I mean, and it's like going to the gym, right? Like, I'm still getting stronger. Right. You know, so what could be wrong about it for me? I'll use that muscle. Okay, just three more. code switching. Code switching. I'd change it. I think it's a tool to have but there shouldn't be a code we have to switch from. I mean, that's part of what we talk about when it comes to our hair and how we show up in the world. I want the code to broaden but I do think there are times when you do need to show up in the way that you need to show up. Yeah. Because that's the job. Or just the translation of language in that moment in time.

1:10:52You know, it's like multiple languages. Protecting your peace. Oh, keep it. Keep it and never let it go. Ever, ever, ever. And then this is the last one. Reinvention after 50. Oh, keep it, y 'all. Let me tell you, anybody over 50? Anybody over 50? you know this time in life is the best it is the best you talk about freedom that's so exciting i would keep it there's a lot of good stuff coming i got 20 more years to go take your time but when you get there let's talk because i'll be uh i'll be 70 yes i need to be over there with you in some island somewhere there you come on come on well i just thank you so much mrs obama i'm just always so happy and thank you to essence for having me i love you all so so much and i love you kiki palmer and i love you too miss michelle obama thank you guys god bless you and we'll see you enjoy the rest of your essence

1:12:15Thank you.