Some Friendships Need to Go with Issa Rae

30:30Yeah, I agree. That's equivalency to me. But what I don't get about this relationship was that she knew it was imbalanced from the beginning. To your point, Issa, my friends and I don't, we don't roll that way. We're more transactional. As long as we're getting something out of it, we feel okay. We don't go as deep. And like you were saying, it's sociology for women. It's not. It's carpentry for men. You know? It's shop. It's—I didn't want to say gym, but it's—we enjoy each other for surface-level enjoyment. And if we need to go deep, we'll go deep. To what extent? So, like, even if—I'm not getting in your business.

31:23But, like, for the divorce of it, right? We are getting in this business. So, for the divorce— Two Capricorns. I told— Let's do it. We're in your business. I told her everything. Okay. She left out. The reason I didn't tell her was because I was hoping that it would work out. Because if it didn't work out and I got over it, she would never get over it. Oh, interesting. So I was trying to save everybody's relationship. Now, when I talk to my boys about it, that's when I go deep. You did go deep with it. Yeah. So you actually brought up, like, this is the thing that I'm going through. Or did you bring up, we're having problems, and let's talk about, or did you wait until?

32:11Like I said at the outset, I waited until it was. So you didn't go deep. But, no, see, now see, there's no timing to it. I mean. But there is. So it was deep for me. It was deep for me, irrespective of the timing. Just the mere fact that you told somebody the obvious. You told your friends that it happened. That it happened. That it's happening. That it's happening. Not that it's... When you were going through it, right? Yes. And it was hard. Who did you talk to? I talked to two really good friends of mine. And we would go to a restaurant in Chicago on Friday after the market stopped trading and we'd have cigars and margaritas and it was three of us and we had one chair in the middle.

33:07So it was the whoever, and we called it the chair of angst. So whoever was having trouble got to sit in the chair of angst and say, this is what I'm going through. And for a while there, I was in the chair of angst for like seven months because I was going through this. And I wasn't ready to divulge it to my family because I didn't want, if I could somehow kick save this thing, then I could tell them after the fact, yeah, you know, well, we had to work on it, but everything's fine now. But I know my family. He's right about that? Is he right? It's sort of right. We would have been, but, you know, you do what your family needs at the time, you know?

33:52There's no way we wouldn't have gone through a recovery of things. It would just have been good to know that before it was like, everything's great and now everything is over. That's how we found out. That's how they found out. They found out. So it was like, what? How did, you know, the sharpness of it. I'm not saying it was the right thing to do. It was a plan. That was my plan. But the thing that I like is that you did go deep with your friends. That's why I think we were confused. Because it sounded like you did to them what you did to us. No, what I was saying is we don't go deep until we need to go deep.

34:31Okay, well, that, but that's, you know. It's not like a friendship is, there's always something to dig into. But I find that in my friends, we always go deep. There's always something to dig into. Because we talk about everything. Everything. And there's just, there are things that you don't know affect you until you talk about it. It could be nothing. It could be talking about a TV show episode that then leads to like, oh, this happened to me. And this is how I was affected by it. And there's just, and nothing is off limits. And that's the beauty of it is just, you get to explore everything freely with no judgment.

35:07And that's also the devastation of, oh, I don't have this safe space anymore. You are the safe space. and I didn't even see that it was a malicious space. Which, you know, getting back to this letter, it's like this woman seemed like she was pouring her heart out to this, to Eva. And it was like hit or miss. I'm not even sure. I don't even know if I like you, girl. I think you're cool. But, oh, I guess I do like you. But it's too late. And so I think that that's also a violation of just like, am I in your life or not? Do you like me or not? Are we good or not? And now something happened that's tragic.

35:44And I think you're one of the last people I heard from. So maybe I need to be real about what this friendship actually was. Yeah. And I think Eva's asking, am I a bad friend? Right. I mean, I think this situation is worth giving her some pause, you know, with maybe the other friends she is close with in real time. Yeah. If she does have those. And, you know, and this is what women do. Like this would have happened to me in one friendship and I would have gone to a set of friends to say, hey, hey, this is what happened. Am I messing up here? Am I wrong? Right. And the crew would be they would dissect it.

36:24They would be IMO in real time, you know. And I think, you know, with what I know, what we understand from this letter, I would tell Eva, yeah, girl, you do need to think a little bit, you know, think a little bit. But because it, you know, for somebody to go through something tragic and then end their letter with, I think this friendship is over because it's not giving me enough. In this particular situation, she probably would check herself to say, you're right. I wasn't fully in this. I was ambivalent. And I thought it was okay for me to be ambivalent here. because it didn't mean the same thing to Eva as it did to her friend.

37:09I have to say that I'm also guilty because part of this also triggered me in a way because I am guilty of, again, like you said, I am not a check-in everyday type of person. I'm a very much, when I'm here, it's all about you, but I don't check in as often as I should with friends. and I've been told that in the past and I've adjusted, but you just have to tell me, but it's not a natural instinct. And so with this, I understand like Eva being, like this is kind of a high maintenance friendship in a way where I can't, I'm not going to be the same type of giving friend that you are to me, but I will show up in the ways that I can.

37:53If you need me, I will always be there. And so that is That would make me consider like Oh, am I Am I a bad friend because I don't think I think about you but I might not text you To be like, hey, I just want to make sure you're okay But you should know that I would hope you would call me If you weren't okay and know that I would show up For you and be there for you I'm not considerate I'm not a considerate friend In the way that I would like to be That's a pronouncement there It's true. And it's like one of my biggest flaws because I'm just so work focused that I'm not like, I'll think about you, but not tell you that I'm thinking about you.

38:35Right. And that's fair. But that's also part of friendship, right? Because, you know, like you said, if you're honest, if your friends know who you are, if there's some transparency there, you know, I have friends like that in times when I've been that friend. And the hope is that people will be like, girl, she must be going through something, you know, or she's busy or, you know, and that's when you feel the security of friendship because you can completely show up as yourself, flaws and all. The inconsiderate or the, you know, you got your friend group and it's like, well, Issa's not going to be the one to call because she just doesn't do that.

39:13You know, I'm not a great, you know, I don't call on a regular basis, but I tend to organize my friends more. For the same. Like I'm the one that's like, okay, let's think about this or, you know, everybody come visit me here. And that was because of eight years also. I mean, you know, it's hard. It was hard to reach me for eight years without a whole lot of goings on. And in order for me to maintain my friendships, I had to be more deliberate. And over the years, I've become the more deliberate one. And also because of who I am, I think people just assume, I don't want to bother you. Yeah, same.

39:51You know, because I'm not going to bring these problems. I've had so many of my good friends who went through stuff and I'm like, you didn't tell me. No, I didn't want to bother you. So that means I often have to bend over even more to check in so people know that when things are tough, do not not call me. Yeah. Because I'm not going to be able to do anything. It's like, now I'm mad at you for that. I don't care that you're going through it. I'm mad at you. Right, right. But you were going to say something before I cut you off. No, no, no. That was great. I appreciate that. And I also appreciate now you see she would have been mad when she said she wouldn't.

40:31It wouldn't have lasted. You know, Capricorns, we get mad, but it doesn't. We don't say that. No, absolutely not. No, you don't.

40:46This episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. The Cologuard test is a one-of-a-kind way to feel more in control of your colon cancer screening through a prescription-based test with none of the prep that's required of a colonoscopy. When I was a coach, my players had a team of people helping them with their physical well-being. They had so many tools to make sure every member of the team was on top of their health and wellness. But what I want our listeners to know is that even if you eat well and have a healthy lifestyle, that does not mean you are low risk for colon cancer.

41:25The Cologuard test is the only FDA approved non-invasive option that looks for both altered DNA and blood in your stool, which can indicate the presence of abnormal cells. The good news is that when caught at the early stages, colon cancer is survivable in 90 % of people. So screening and early detection are crucial. With zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door, we shouldn't let our health take a backseat. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Cologuard test. You can also request a Cologuard prescription today at Cologuard.com slash podcast.

42:13The Cologuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a Cologuard test if you have had adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease, and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Cologuard test is not a replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. Cologuard is available by prescription only. This episode of the IMO Podcast is brought to you by BetterHelp.

43:00How many times a day do you compare yourself to others or wish your life looked like someone else's? We all do it sometimes because it's easy to envy friends' lives on social media when you only see the good parts. But you know what they say, comparison is the thief of joy. And in reality, nobody has it all together. Therapy can help you focus on what you want instead of what others have. Like that career goal you set your sights on. Or that relationship you want to grow. Or that daily habit you want to get into. because your best life is always better than the idea of someone else's. We believe in therapy at IMO, and we've seen firsthand how beneficial it is to invest in your own well-being.

43:47You know, this reminds me of my teams when I coached. Back in my day, we didn't have therapists assigned to the team. And boy, it sure would have been nice to have the access to better help so I could send my players to someone who I could trust and was reputable. BetterHelp has experienced therapists ready to help you with challenges ranging from anxiety and relationships to stress. It's convenient, too. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. And you deserve that. It's time to stop comparing and start living with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash IMO today to get 10 % off your first month.

44:33That's betterhelp.com slash IMO. This episode of IMO is brought to you in part by understood.org. If you're a parent of a child with ADHD, dyslexia, or any learning difference, and especially if you're navigating special education as a parent of color, you know it can feel like a maze. There's a podcast from understood.org called Opportunity Gap that's here to help. It's hosted by Julian Saavedra. And in every episode, he talks with special ed teachers, child psychologists, and other experts. They break down things like how to navigate the IEP process, what accommodations your child is entitled to, and how to build a strong relationship with your child's teachers.

45:25I checked out the Opportunity Gap myself, and what stood out to me was how practical and empowering it is. It's a resource that really meets families where they are. It also provides tools to help families build confidence in navigating the challenges of children who learn differently. To listen, just search Opportunity Gap in your podcast app. That's Opportunity Gap. You may remember me talking about this sponsor last month. And honestly, I had to bring them back because their Labor Day sale is still happening. And it's just too good to miss. That sponsor is Helix Mattress. Let me tell you, sleep used to be a struggle for me.

46:11I'd toss and turn, wake up groggy, and rely way too much on coffee to get me through the day. And I know I'm not alone. So many of us are trying supplements, gadgets, or meditation apps to fix our sleep. But the real game changer, the foundation of it all is the mattress you're actually sleeping on. When I switched to Helix, it was like night and day, literally. I took their two-minute quiz, and it matched me with the perfect mattress for the way I sleep. I ended up with the twilight, and I cannot overstate how much better I feel. Now I wake up rested. My mornings aren't such a battle. And I have the energy to dive into my day, keep up with work, and of course, keep showing up here on the mic with you folks.

47:02Sleep impacts everything, your mood, your focus, your health. And for me, investing in a Helix mattress has been one of the best things I've done for myself in a long time. If you don't trust me, you should trust the experts like Good Housekeeping and Forbes who have done the research for you. Like I said earlier, they are extending their Labor Day sale and our listeners can get 25 % off site-wide by going to helixsleep.com slash IMO. That's helixsleep.com slash IMO for 25 % off site-wide and make sure you enter our show name after checkout. So they know we sent you. HelixSleep.com slash IMO.

47:54Can I ask you a question about the chair of angst? Yes. Did they ask you questions or was it more of like a venting space? Was it an inquiry? Yeah. It was. It was all of the above. Because sometimes the person who was in the chair of angst just needed to vent. And in the venting, the other two would ask questions to find out, okay, is this really what's going on? Or is there anything we can do? Or what predicated this? It was a give and take. It wasn't just a venting session. But it was, at least for me, it was liberating to be able to just have somebody to talk to about things that, you know, that were deep and private that I wasn't ready to share with the whole world.

48:51That's dope. But y 'all had to make a whole construct to do that. With cigars and margaritas and whatnot. That's how I got it. Once you're out the chair and you can't be able to. No more questions. No more questions. No more questions, no more problems. It never happens. That's it. Well, but see, and that's the other thing you can't do with women or with me, your sister. We don't let it go. They don't let it go. You were never out of the chair. Because now I'm calling you and going, okay, what happened today? What happened? Yeah, you did. So not only do I have a sister, I have a wife, which has helped me communicate, right?

49:26Because I say all the time, our relationship, the relationship with my wife and the relationship with my daughter, who is now 28, I'm a better communicator, not just with women, but in general, because I get it. I get it. There are times when my wife wants to talk to me and I don't want to talk, but I have to be intentional about she needs this. And you need it too. If I need it, I will go get it. But with my friends, we never get there like that. So a friend has never disappointed you? Yes. Because you don't have expectations of them? No, friends have disappointed, but it doesn't injure me as deeply.

50:12And if your next question is, do I approach them and say, hey, you really disappointed me? I have. And I think that's why we keep our friendship. And have you had that happen to you With one of your friends Where they approached you and said Hey, this is You just show up in this way And I'm upset I have not Have you ended a sanction? At the risk of sounding cocky I have not Oh, because you're a good friend I keep hitting this right Because you're a good friend I hope that I am You seem like you're a good friend But it is You have a sister You have to be a good friend But it doesn't have to be deep friendship.

50:54It can be just below the surface. But I think you allow people to just be comfortable with you. Yes, absolutely. And I think that that is essential in a friendship. And you may not challenge them in a way. But if a friendship isn't serving you, will you just ignore it and keep it going? Keep them around? You'll never be like, hey, I kind of don't like hanging around. You kind of get on my nerves. Yeah. So this is a really good question. And I haven't thought about this because unlike my sister, I didn't make too many new friends as an adult. You know, after a certain period, I shouldn't say as an adult, sort of as I've gotten older.

51:39So my friends are my friends and they're going to be my friends. And new people that I meet that I haven't known for a long time who are friends, the shift to the right, and they don't make the shift to the right, we just don't communicate as much. I call that the slow ghost. She does. She calls it the slow ghost. It's not enough to have a conversation with because, you know, do you really care? So you go through the emotional energy. You just sort of. Just let it. Let it die a natural, quiet death. And which brings me to another point that you all didn't talk about, but it made me think about this, is that I don't mind being ghosted.

52:24Me neither. I don't mind that. If it didn't matter. Yeah. If it didn't matter, it didn't matter. Surface. But let's say I get the slow ghost, right? I get the slow ghost. And then a year later, the guy texts me and says, hey, I'm going to be in town. Want to go get a drink? I'll be like, yeah, sure. And you all are laughing, but that is how we operate. That is how we operate. Just look at the guys in here all smiling, trying not to get in trouble. They are trying for me not to get in trouble. No, I'm just like, girl, you gave me a reason. Thank you. No, you are done. I had too many people I messed with.

53:03Because there's nothing worse than like having, sometimes you just don't have time and making a new friend who you're kind of not sure about. And then you have to like make plans together. The slow ghost allows you to never speak to them again and never have to plan anything. And it's fine. But even with your friends, I'm sorry. Your friends that you grew up with, inevitably, you guys, like, you grow up, you become who you're supposed to be, right? There are no friends that you've grown up with that you have where you're just like, I've outgrown them mentally or they, you know, don't necessarily, we don't vibe the same anymore.

53:46There's never been that. And that thought has never crossed your mind. The guys who, like, say, grammar school people who were my friends, I'm still in touch with. And they've never, since grammar school. Since high school. First day of high school. Okay, okay. But your friends that you hold now, your male friends, is that to say that you've never even fought? No, we've fought, yeah. But it's old. It's not an emotional fight? There's no, I mean, I'm just like, I know his friends. It's like, there's just, there's not a lot going on. There's no emotional fight. You're talking about, I thought you were talking about like a fight.

54:26No, and that's not, like guys to me, y 'all will be like, like y 'all will physically fight and be like, well, he the alpha, I'm the beta. That's it. We're good for life. Let's go have a beer. And no, if I physically fight one of my female friends, it's over. Well, you all don't physically fight. No, but in. But I get it. I get it. But the emotional fights allow you to get closer or, you know, decide this isn't the right relationship. I just think it goes back to the level, you know. And again, this isn't true for everyone. But even just watching my brother, it's like, you know, your friends sort of hover around the surface.

55:05And it's real, meaningful friendships. But they're just not as deep as the friendships I see among women. Until there is a crisis. then we go deep. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's true. People show up, go to the funeral, you know, all of that sort of stuff. Yeah, go straight to death. You know, but I mean, because that's what a crisis is for these superficial friendships. It's got to be like a thing that happens. It could be something going on with their kids or it could be a divorce or it could be, you know, a car accident. Something super dire. Yeah. A crisis. And a crisis for women is just like, you know, Don't do us like that.

55:47You know. Oh, man. I'm going to get it when I get home. I'll give you an example because my husband doesn't fully understand it. And he's got great friends, friends that he has since high school. I know his friends. Meaningful. But when a girlfriend comes to visit, it's usually like you've got to stay for two days because it's going to take us two days. So much time to have to check up. Two days to check up, right? And we're not planning anything. We are going to sit right here, and we will be here. Too many rules. No, but it's not even a rule. It's just this is what we do, and this is what it's going to take.

56:27You've got to stay for two days. So I'll have one of my good girlfriends over, spending the night, friends with Barack, love, love, all that. We sit on a couch. There's something in front of us, tea, crackers. moved to wine, you know, but we get up at 10 a.m. and we start the check-in. That sounds beautiful. And it begins with, first of all, girl, how are you? You know, tell me about you. Now, that's an hour, just sort of emotionally, mentally checking in, right? Hour two is like, okay, what about work? And tell me about, because we know all about it. Remember that HR person you were going to let go?

57:03What happened with that girl? She's still there? Oh, man. What? What did she do next? And then you got to give an example of what she did. Now it's lunchtime, right? On day one. Now Barack has come in, he's come out, and he's like, y 'all still talking? He'll sit down for five minutes and be like, how are the boys? He's interrupted the phone. You contributed nothing. You just interrupted the time. You know? And then it's 3 o 'clock, and he's like, y 'all still here? And it's like, we're just now getting on the kids. And with one girlfriend, we each have two kids. That's four kids. That's like an hour per kid.

57:39Oh, my gosh. I haven't even gotten to that phase yet. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. 48 hours. It's 48 hours because each kid has, you know, we know the issues and the things we've, you know, now we're at dinner on day one. Right. So this is what I'm saying. And my husband is like, how, what are you all talking about all day? And it's like, we're not eating. We're just scratching the surface. And do you know that it's so, oh my, it feels so good after they leave. It's just like, there's no better feeling than like, I just got, oh, I reconnected with my girl. She knows everything. I've been holding, I was saving this story for her because only she would understand it.

58:20Oh, we saved some stories. Like, I can't tell, like, there's friendship. Even in my groups, there's my friends who, if I want to be mad at someone, and if I want to not know that I'm wrong, I go to her. Because she's never going to tell me I'm wrong. It's always, yeah, girl, okay, who we— Right, who's next? She's up. Yeah, I needed that. And then there's a friend that I go to where I'm just like, I need to know— The truth. Yes, I need to know the truth. I need to know that I'm not it, and they're going to give it to me straight. And then there's just the loyal friend who's just like going to listen and I can grab.

58:53But everybody has a function in some way. And they're just, it's just, it's cathartic. It's so, it's so beautiful. And that's why I'm just, I don't understand. And the flip side of my husband, right? Because he golfs. And golfing takes as long as the first session of our, you know, it takes five hours to golf. He'll golf with his buddies, come back and be like, how's ex? He's good. He's like, what'd y 'all talk about? Nothing. And I was like, I will have heard somebody has cancer. And I was like, how is X? Did you hear that they had cancer? He's like, no, we didn't talk about that. And I'm just like, what?

59:29You were golfing all day. And it never came up. And it never came up. You never asked about our God son, for example. You're with his father. How is he? I don't know. I think he's good. It's like, what were you all doing? Sitting in a cart? Talking about surface. You know, and I'm like, literally nothing. Yeah, you all have no information. And that's the difference. Because you'll be with each other all day looking directly away from each other at a ball, right? Whereas when I'm with my friends, we are physically turned in towards one another, feet off compass. Sometimes we're touching, you know, there are tears.

1:00:06It's like, and that can go on for hours. And once you do that, then your feelings are going to be hurt when you break up or somebody's going to get mad. I mean, with that level of kind of intimacy. I maintain that the chair of angst with me, Jimmy, and Victor is exactly the same thing. It just doesn't take as long. Okay. I don't know how you get anything out of sitting in a chair for dinner. Because you're also not, it also has to be around a crisis, right? Mm-hmm. It does. It takes a crisis to get it going. This is also why women live longer. Thank them, man. Because we're getting a lot of that out.

1:00:52Right. And not to take it there, but y 'all keep it in here. We do. Like the crisis would require an emergency session. Oh, my God. Like somebody's on a train. Yeah. Flying. You know, there's movement. And you're not going to deal with the crisis. Yeah. I was like, we're coming. We're coming. It's a crisis. My friend's dog died. We were all there at the house bringing her favorite snack. Like, this is, took off work. That is a script. That is something that you could write on television. It's true that because that's like, it's planning, doing a text like, you know, she's not going to be good.

1:01:25Like, she doesn't need this right now, you know? Right, right. You know what's so horrible about that is guys would be like, damn. Yeah. Not a crisis. They'd be like, damn. Obviously not a crisis. Sorry. Or the dog emoji. Oh, dude, I didn't know you had a dog. Yeah. What? Where'd you get a dog? Okay. We are bad. That is... What about friends that's talking about how guys don't know how to express... Bungie's a cat. Guys in text don't know how to express emotions and will use emojis like the wrong... Like, ah, y 'all, I lost my aunt. Dang, fire emoji. Ghost emoji. Shit. Shit. Oh. You just don't have the language for it.

1:02:12That's not what those feelings are. You don't even understand the emoji feelings. You're so disconnected from feelings. I don't know what they are, but I'm 60. Trying to give you so much. So I don't know. But for your generation of emotions, you don't even know what fire is for. So why do we have emotion OGs? They're literal. It's like hot dog. Hot dog. I'm hungry. I want lunch. Fire is like. I don't want Eva to think we are not taking her issues seriously. Oh, yeah. I forgot about Eva. No, right? No, we almost... Well, she lost the frame. I know. Well, is it possible to set boundaries in a friendship that's unbalanced?

1:02:58That's why I'm like, you have to be honest about like, hey girl, like I have a lot on my plate and that's hard to say. Yeah. Because I was, yeah, I was going to say like, I just want to be a dinner friend. And I guess in those situations where I've been confronted about like, hey, because I have been, I feel like I give you more energy, that I have just been like, I blamed it on work. I blamed it on I'm busy, but I haven't said, I don't want to devote the time to this. Saying that I have work is the excuse and they can choose to pleasantly ghost me and I wouldn't be as affected. The fact that Eva is actually affected by this is what's confusing me because you didn't dedicate the energy to want to be her friend.

1:03:45And I'd imagine that you do have a set of friends that are higher tier friends that do get your time and energy that you do consider those people. Or you're just a loner and don't know how to make friends. And that's a whole different situation. But I'm confused by the loss because you had this person who cared about you investing in you. That is kind of selfish if you didn't feel the same way about them. So, yeah, it's fair to set boundaries. But I think it starts with knowing, well, who do you want to be? How do you want to show up? And the honesty first has to be within yourself. You know, I mean, I think both of us probably as Capricorns, we're probably a little more honest about who we are, what we want.

1:04:30And, you know, and even though women talk a lot, sometimes we don't, you know, we don't spend that time because we're pouring that energy out. Like, I understand you before I understand me. Yeah, yes, yes. And that's the nature of, you know, a lot of times women are giving or, you know, without opening themselves up because that's hard, you know. And maybe what I would say to Eva is maybe it's time for her to just, she's asking, do some personal reflection about what does she want in friendship and how does she want to show up? How does she want to show up? Because if she's a loner and is somebody who doesn't want high-maintenance friendships, she's at the age where it's okay for her to own that about herself.

1:05:20And make some friends with some guys. Right. Or, you know, be okay. Then understand that there will be times that she will get that response from friends. It's like, I thought we were this and we're not. You hurt my feelings and it's over. Right? And not take it to heart. If that's the kind of friend you are, because that's where you are in life. But if you don't want that to happen again, if that really does bother you, then you got to take stock about how you need to show up for people. And what's an example of that, showing up? Is that just, I hear communication. I get that. But understanding who your friend is and what they need.

1:06:02Okay. Like, you know, being a little more considerate about the other person and what they need. And, you know, just like you do with a loved one, you have to do in any relationship. Sometimes you do what they need, even if it's not what you need. And with friends, you don't have to do it every day like you do for your partner, your life partner. But you do have to be aware, you know, and show up every now and then. And it sounds like Eva may not have shown up at all for this friend. And so you're going to have to give people what they need at some point to get what you need. It's like friendship language.

1:06:41What's your friend's friendship language? Is it time? Is it crisis management? Is it acts of service? Is it brutal honesty? Is it emotional vulnerability? I would say that that's my friendship language. I value people's honest emotional vulnerability. That means a lot to me. But even hearing you say this, you also have to have the recognition that maybe you're also not compatible. Because some friendships, the most beautiful friendships are just instinctive. They're instinctual. You don't have to. You don't have to try. You are the yin to the yang. You fit in like puzzle pieces. and then when there are missteps you can talk about them comfortably without necessarily feeling like you're offending.

1:07:33And this feels very much like Eva had to try too hard. To be something she was not. To be something that she wanted and that she didn't really want. And so I think considering that and that goes back to being honest with yourself but the best friendships I have you haven't had to do all that and the worst friendships I've had that I've silently ghosted or that silently goes to me, it was hard to manage. There was always something and it felt uncomfortable. So yeah, being honest with yourself about that is crucial. And how old is Eva again? Yeah, I was wondering that too. 32. 32? Oh yeah, this is when people start falling off.

1:08:12Your 30s is like when it whittles down to who's going to be there. Does she have kids? No. And it's going to whittle even more You know, if she chooses to partner and have kids, it changes. And I think that's also what I would say to Eva. It's like, this is life. Yeah. You know, and like she said in her letter, friends aren't family, you know, and sometimes that's good and sometimes that's not, you know. Friends will, there are seasons for friends. And who knows, in their 40s or 50s, they may reconnect, you know. So this is perfect because I'm thinking back to Eva. One of the things I would like Eva to take away from this is that being in an unbalanced relationship doesn't mean it has to end the relationship.

1:09:04If you want it to be another way, I'm learning from you all. If I'm in an unbalanced relationship and I'm the one feeling unbalanced, I got to go to the person and say, hey, look, this is what I want out of a relationship. And if they can't provide it, then we got to think about it indeed. Well, and that's what her friend essentially did, you know. But her friend did it during the breakup. I'm curious if the friend ever came to her and was like, hey, this is what I need from a relationship. I feel like this is unbalanced. It seems like she was like, this is the last straw. Like, my relative died.

1:09:37You didn't show up. This has been unbalanced. And maybe it became clear to her in that moment, which I think she said. Yeah, right. She did. All of a sudden, you ain't shit. I realize that and that's just that's the way the cookie car rolls I wonder if Eva also fought for it it sounds like she's in contemplation about it or letting it go it feels like she's let it go it feels like she didn't fight for it but I don't think we have that do you guys do follow dang I need to know let's figure out a couple, three things that we can tell Eva and then maybe we could figure out a follow-up with her. Well, one of the things is, I think you mentioned it is, if you have this other set of friends holding court and just being like, hey guys, how do I not?

1:10:28Yeah, take it to your counsel. Yeah, take it to your counsel. What are the ways that I don't show up? Have I been a bad friend? And like use that to become a better friend. I completely agree with that. And also, you know, be easy on yourself. You're 32. This is how it goes. You know, people come, people go. You know, even hurts can be healed because, you know, who knows where you'll be when you're 50? You know, life is long and friendships have ebbs and flows. And in the meantime, what I would tell her is use this as an opportunity since you're bothered by it to figure out how you can grow. And one thing that I've done before, write a letter with no expectation of a response.

1:11:22If you really do care about how your actions impacted this person, write a letter of apology. Say where you're coming from and let that person know, hey, I just wanted to get this off my chest. This is the way that I really valued you. I'm sorry I didn't show up for you in this way. The door is still open to be friends if you'll walk through it again. But feel free not to respond. I just wanted to get this off. Like if you really feel badly about it Write her a letter But don't expect a response I like that I like that too But you know what I like even more Is when Issa said Just get a guy friend Honestly you want a low maintenance relationship You want a low maintenance relationship Get a guy friend And don't worry You don't even know if he has a dog Eva we really care about you No for real You'll be good girl You'll be alright This is how, as you said, the cookie crumbles.

1:12:22Life is like this. But this has been fun. Yeah, this is so fun. What's the next letter? Thank you so much. Oh, yeah. Yeah, come on. Let's go. Got that one down. Thank you so much. Thank you, guys.

1:13:15Thank you. to agree with you because your hot take is the exact advice you gave me when I was leaving corporate America. And you said to me, if you can do something that you love doing, go ahead, because we grew up not having money and we ended up just fine. Following your passion is sometimes a luxury, but following your values is a necessity. When you're considering new work opportunities, it's worth asking, do I want to become more like the people here? Do they share my values? I'm Adam Grant, and you can hear more hot takes like these from guests like Lin-Manuel Miranda, Dolly Parton, Trevor Noah, Reese Witherspoon, Brene Brown, and more on my podcast, Rethinking, wherever you listen.