Support with Compassion with Dwyane Wade and Gabrielle Union

27:25All right, well said. Yeah, I give them more space. But I think, you know, one thing, and it comes with a little bit of the position that I'm in where, you know, I've been the leader of the family in a lot of ways, right, because of this position. And so my relationship with my sister has become a little, you know, different because sometimes they become dependent on. And that changes the brother-sister relationship when you have to depend on, you know, each other, especially in a financial way and all these other ways. And so, you know, I give that space because I'm like the parent. I'm like, you know what?

27:56Think about that. Think about that ask a little bit. Yeah, right, right. Let's sit on that for a moment. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. And what about you? That age difference between him and his next oldest sister, you and Tregill are what? Like five years. Five years apart. So when I first met his family, the older sisters who are closer in my age, immediately— They got it. Good. Yeah, we're good in the hood. But like with Trigil, because that's, she has been the protector. She has been the watchdog. She has been the gatekeeper to keep him sane and to keep him, you know, doing everything he needs to do without interference from anybody.

28:43And I'm like, but I'm not, I'm not. I'm not just by anybody. I just happen to be his wife. And I think, you know, before I got to the wife stage, like, well, we were just like, you know, the very beginning. And it was like, you know, I think him, you know, Tregill and his mom were like, what do you want? Who are you? Who are you, you older lady? What do you want? You know, what do you want? You cougar, cradle, like, what are you? Cradle robbing. But I was like, actually, we both just got divorced. So we're kind of in the same space. Like, I didn't have a kid at 20. Like, I'm still childless. And I'm not racing to do that.

29:27So I'm straight. I got my own bank account. So I'm good. I just like him. You know, we'll see where it goes. But so it took some years, really, to like, you know, earn their trust. And then also for them to earn my trust. So we can be comfortable equally. And now, like, yeah, it's easy because we are all on the same side. So we, his mom and his sister, Drigel, we tend to have the same complaints about the same things that we then want to take to him. And how do you not see this? See me and your mama and your sister. Like, you know. But now you got some allies. She got reinforcements now. Yeah.

30:10And once she got married, once his sister Trigel got married, now, you know, now it's like she gets it. You know, because she's coming into a relationship where he'd been married before and he has kids. And I was like, huh, not so easy as it, not so easy as it. You know, but you, you know, you, you want that grace, you give that grace and eventually you receive that grace. But it's a learning curve for sure.

30:44Hey, everybody. Craig Robinson here. As you know, when we do these podcast recordings in LA, I always ask my wife to get an Airbnb for me. But most importantly, I want the ones that are guest favorites for my stay. These are the most loved homes by other guests on Airbnb. And, you know, we've got some trips as a family set up for our kids' AAU basketball tournaments. And they're in small towns all over the country. And we always book guest favorites when we go places that we haven't been before. That way, you make sure you get something that the other guests find really appealing. So when you are planning your next trip, try guest favorites.

31:29This episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. As it stands, colon cancer is on the rise in people under 50, which is why the American Cancer Society recommends that if you're at average risk, you begin screening at 45. Even if you live a healthy lifestyle and don't have symptoms, no one is at low risk for colon cancer. We want to make sure our listeners know that colon cancer can be treatable in 9 out of 10 people. But the key here is that it has to be caught early. With the Coligard test, you can take control of your colon cancer screening through a prescription-based test with none of the prep that's required of a colonoscopy.

32:18Not only is the Coligard test effective for colon cancer screening, but it can even detect pre-cancer. And in addition to its convenience, the Coligard test is also affordable. Most insured patients find they pay nothing out of pocket. With zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door, don't let your health take a backseat. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Coligard test. You can also request a ColoGuard prescription today at coloGuard.com slash podcast. The ColoGuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer.

33:10Do not use a ColoGuard test if you have adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Cologuard test is not a replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. Cologuard is available by prescription only.

33:52But families, you know, complicated. That's a perfect segue to the listener question because Charlotte needs a little bit of help with her sister. And Natalie, do you mind reading the question for us? Yeah, I got a short little story, so bear with me. Hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is Charlotte and I live in Tacoma, Washington. My sister and I have lived in the same city as one another since college and have always been close. We are both married with teenage kids. My sister's daughter is a couple of years younger than my kids. I love my niece, but she has been really challenging for my sister to parent.

34:27She has a ton of anger and is in therapy for it, but she takes a lot of these feelings out on my sister. She's also much meaner to her mom than her dad, and I suspect it's been hard on my sister's marriage. I wouldn't be surprised if the stress at home is affecting my sister at work or in her other close relationships. Which brings me to my role in this. For a long time, my sister talked to me about the fight she was having with my niece. But in the past year, she's gotten noticeably distant. She avoids talking about anything going on in her family, and she's acted closed off and even standoffish if I go there.

35:03She's also been making increasingly rude comments at my expense, which I recognize is coming from stress, but it's still hurtful. So my question is, how do I support my sister, her family, and her daughter especially when my sister won't even let me in? Do I allow things to stay surface level for a while and wait for it to get better? Or do I try to find a different way to talk to her? Is there anything different I can do to support her or even her daughter better while also protecting our bond? Thanks, Charlotte. Well, that's a question. So it sounds like Charlotte knows that there's something wrong.

35:43And my question is, let's back up and figure out, is it better to hit questions head on or beat around the bush and sort of subtly get to the answer? Right between the eyes. Let's just get to it. Let's get to it. Nobody has oodles and noodles of time these days. We all have families. Let me know. Because it could be something you could fix on a dime. Could be something you're just not really aware of. Could be your tone. Things you can adjust. But in this situation, I first would want to hear her sisters. version of this. I want to hear from the sister's husband, because it doesn't sound like the sister has a lot of support.

36:23But I would also say that it's probably way worse than what her sister has shared. And it sounds like it has gotten to a place where it is so humiliating and so embarrassing and so hurtful that it's embarrassing to share that, especially if Charlotte's daughter doesn't have a lot of problems. It just sounds like you're imagining a judgment that is not happening. Or maybe it is. That's another question that we would probably have for Charlotte's sister. You know what I mean? So you are like, I bet you they're judging me because that's how you're really thinking about yourself. So I would rather keep distance than feel your judgmental eyes or whatever it is that, you know, the sister is imagining that Charlotte's doing.

37:12Well, and like you make a good point. We don't know the age dynamic is who's older, who's younger. You know, there's probably some history there of, you know, what that relationship has been. So, you know. And like her taking shots at Charlotte. We got to turn this around because there's too much heat on me. That there's too much heat on me and I'm going to redirect it where I think the judgment is coming from. Yeah. Except Charlotte's like, she feels like she's just taking strays because she's just trying to be supportive. But it's the assumption of judgment and, you know, ridicule and whatever that is happening to me in the sister's mind.

37:54But in this situation, my advice would be you got to pull your sister aside and have the conversations you didn't have. Because this is when bad dynamics get in the way of the future, right? Because it's, you know, whatever is fueling that thing that's keeping Charlotte and her sister from being able to just have a straight up conversation, a kind of, even though those conversations are hard. I mean, look, when Craig was going through his divorce from his first wife, I've said this time and time again, he did not tell me that they were having problems. He didn't, you know, I thought they were the Cosbys, you know, literally.

38:38So I went from, and I was close to my first sister-in-law, right? We lived down the street from one another. So sometimes things are bad. And it's just, as my brother said, he didn't want to pull us in because he didn't want us to start judging. And if things worked out and so on and so forth. If things worked out, she would never get over it. But that wouldn't have been the case. I might have been mad, you know. She wouldn't have gotten over it. But that's why you need to have those conversations. Yeah, right. Because it would have been better for him to come to me and say, Mish, you know, I'm going to share something with you.

39:13but I need you to keep a cool head because I have to have a safe place to come. We've since had that conversation and I think this is why in his second marriage, we've approached the dynamic of brother and sister differently and our communication is different because I don't want him to ever think that he could be in any kind of harm and that I would judge him. I don't know how I'm going to react. If somebody's messing with my brother, my first reaction is buck up. I can't say that I'm not going to be that way, but I'd rather let me get through that so that we can then step in and have the conversation.

39:55That's why that dynamic is important, because when stuff like this happens, you need your family. Because Charlotte could be part of the solution to help her sister just be another voice at the table for her niece. because sometimes you can hear from somebody else which you cannot hear from your own parents, which is why the village is so important. So I would say sit your sister down if you can. Try. Try push through that pain or whatever it is and help her know that she can share with you whatever it is without judgment and you're there to help. I was in Utah and I had a speech to do. I thought I did well.

40:44I'm sure you did. And then your sister came out and I realized that they was crying when she got done. You see that answer she just had? That's how I felt in Utah. My perspective, I think we all could be right on our perspectives. And mine will come from an angle of watching my sister-in-law when she's around her sister. also to my relationship with my sister, sometimes you got to take it all the way back to the basics. And the basics to me is focus on your relationship just with your sister. Sometimes you just need your sister, you know, and provide that safe space as just being a sister, not being the auntie, not being, you know, anyone who brings judgment.

41:26Just be that person that she can come to you and she want to talk to because y 'all have history and similar backgrounds. So I think sometimes when I see Tracy light up, it's when her and Gabba just being sisters. It's not being auntie. It's not you not doing this, not doing that. It's when they're just hanging out as sisters. And that allows for you to want to open up more so than feeling judgment from someone or with all these emotions that we go through. And so I would just say, Charlotte, just be a sister. You know, like you guys were when you grew up before. It was husbands and kids and all the things.

42:00You guys, y 'all were just sisters. And maybe more would come out then. This makes me wonder, though, is it ever okay as a sibling to go around your sibling and go directly to their kid and talk to him? Or maybe go around the sibling and talk to her husband, Charlotte's husband, a brother-in-law? Is that ever a good idea? And I can tell the gab. I can see the gab face. That's not for me. I mean, listen, if you really think someone is suffering, I will try everything that I'm going to go directly to you. And if I feel like I'm getting shut down, but I still feel like, oh, you're circling the drain, like it could get to a danger zone.

42:47I will try every avenue to reach you, whether it be through a mutual friend, another relative. You know, we have a group chat that we call the Sanity Crew. And it's, you know, three of us couples. and we could take it to the sanity crew. Yeah, I like that. Or I can go to anyone else in the sanity crew and be like, this is what's happening with me and Dee. Can you talk to him? Because I don't think either I'm not hearing him or I don't, because I don't get it. Is there anything that you can do? So I'm not above doing that at all. Especially if it gets into like that danger zone where they're kind of cutting off from everything.

43:30and you know like when you're left to circle the drain on your own it can get dark fast but also I'm okay with space like let's let's give it a beat and maybe she is being inundated not just by her sister but by everyone who is a witness to this and just a just a beat and then just say hey you want to go get a drink you want to go you know go to a museum just you want to sit the park. I'll go get some subs. And then it kind of takes the pressure off it having to be about your kid or whatever, my perceived lack of support from her husband. Yeah, kind of getting back to just, you know, but also space, you know, like I don't like if I feel like my back is to the wall, give me a minute.

44:17Yeah. Maybe a few weeks. Yeah. Yeah. So I can figure this out. So, yeah, yeah. But I, Dwayne, I like what you said about just sometimes being with people, you know. And it sounds like this family, Charlotte's family, they spend a lot of time together because they're having meals on a regular basis. They're in one another's homes, enough that she sees what's happening with her niece. But when I think about what I might do in that situation, I would probably be cautious about saying something, especially if I'd gotten some pushback. But I would probably try to spend more time with my niece if I could.

45:02That just sort of, just like be a sister is like maybe just be an auntie too, you know? So it doesn't feel like you're addressing a problem, but maybe this is a cry for help. And so maybe I can take her to lunch or maybe I can just pick her up and do something that seems innocuous or fun where maybe this girl will open up to me in a different way where she doesn't feel watched. or if you set up a regular session with her, like, let's go get our nails done. I'm just thinking, you know, you're 12. Auntie, I'm going to take you. We're going to do something you like. I bet she likes getting her nails done, especially if she's being sassy.

45:46She probably got acrylics, you know? So let's go. Sounds like that girl's got acrylics. So go take her to, she's snapping her nails at you. I bet she's got some nails to snap. So take her to get her nails done, you know, and sit and see if you can, in a natural, just sort of being way, find out what's going on with your niece. I try to do that. I don't do it as much with your younger boys because I'm not with them as much. But with the older kids, when we were in the White House, his older two, we'd always, whenever they could, they would go on trips with us in the White House. You know, we always make it a point to, because the thought was, okay, we got these kids growing up in the White House and being on the world stage, they should know something about the world, right?

46:41And so usually on their breaks, that's when we would plan a big trip. You know, that's when we went to see the Pope or we went to South Africa or we went to the Great Wall or, you know, just so that these, you know, my girls would walk away from this experience with something more than paparazzi following them. Right. But we would always include Avery and Leslie and those times with grandma, you know. So I got a lot of good time with them on these long, amazing trips. just, you know, a lot of times I'm working and come back into the room and they're playing Uno or they're doing something silly with grandma.

47:20But I'd like to think that I know for Leslie, for example, I know she knows that she can call me, you know, that she can text me. And I think that not just because I'm her aunt, but it's that time in. Because sometimes you got to look a kid in the face and go, I see you. And especially when your aunt is important and the first lady, you need to be able to say, no, no, no, never too important for you. And I'm going to say this in between seeing the queen and talking to the da-da-da, you're here too, come sit down. And not everybody has the platform of the White House, but there are versions of that, of making sure that the kids in your life know that you see them so that when it's time, when they do fall short, when they are circling the drain, maybe, maybe they'll just reach up for a lifeline.

48:15And maybe Charlotte can do some of that, a little of that. I'm so curious, who in their family is that person who can just pull that little girl up? Like, all right, knock it off. So let's get to it. Kim, pull that little girl. What are we really dealing with right now? You know what I mean? like, and that like over nails or, but like there's, I'm trying to think of who our cut the S person is. That's not you gap? No, not with anybody's kids. Like, you know, like, no, I tend to, I tend to be, you know, a little more judgmental. They're definitely not coming to me first, but like, you've done that.

48:56You did that. I'm the one. You don't look too far. Yeah. Like you did it with Torrin. Yeah. Yeah. You did it with my nephew, Torrin. I think that going back to what I said is, you know, I'm not trying to come in and be a specialist. Kids don't want a specialist. And so if you ask me to talk to Torrin, I'm not going to talk to Torrin about what you want me to talk to him about. And not the way that you want me to talk to him because I'm just coming in as a specialist at this point. He's not going to share anything with me or be open and honest. And so I have to take a whole different approach. And I got to be uncle.

49:27I got to be somebody who actually understands. And sometimes we come in and the way we're saying it, it don't feel like we understand that we've been there before. And so, yeah, it's a different approach. It really is. And as a parent, as a father, you have to be the bad cop a lot. So when you try and come in and try and be the good cop, it just doesn't work. So I need Mish to, all right, come ease in and take some of the load off of this kid because he's catching it from me. Or it's somebody in our communities, either another family member or one of our good friends who also knows the kids who can come in and be like, well, you know, just like you're saying, you can't come in as a special.

50:15That's a wonderful way of putting it. That you come in as a specialist. You can't just come in as the point guard telling guys what to do. You're the captain of the team. You got to come in and be a teammate and say, I'm suffering through stuff too. And what else is going on? I'm in it with you. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's helpful for Charlotte. But what are some other strategies we can give Charlotte? That's what I'm – I mean, because every family is different. And by us on the outside looking in, it's kind of tough. But I really feel like it doesn't have to be the people who are asking the questions.

51:00Like you said, there's got to be somebody in their community, in their village who can help. Well, what I think about is, you know, and this doesn't help Charlotte in the immediate future, but if people are listening, you know, it sort of reinforces the importance of establishing a good sibling dynamic, right? because, you know, as I try to tell my girls, you guys are all you have, really, you know. And sometimes it's like, so before the problem gets where it is for Charlotte and her sister, where they aren't communicating, whatever that dynamic was, let's step back and just sort of talk about why it's important to parent and how do you parent your kids to have a good dynamic, You know, because a lot of times bad sibling dynamic stems from something some parent did, you know.

52:06I always talk about the fact that I think that one of the things that helps our dynamic is that we're opposite genders, you know. And brother, sister, especially little sister, I always looked up to him, you know. Even though I know my mother loves her black son way more. I mean, I joke about this. She didn't love him more. But there's just this black mother dynamic of Craig, Craig, Craig. You know, I was like, Mom, I'm the first lady. What more do I have to do? That's all right. She's like, Craig's here. He was Craigie Craig. And Craigie Craig in the house. I'm like, okay. We still going there.

52:46But, you know, I was a fan too. And I think a lot of that is, you know, if he were a girl, I'd probably hate him with that dynamic, you know, because he was the beloved older, you know, sibling. And, you know, sometimes parents set that up thinking, well, you should be more like X and you shouldn't be, you know, using the other child to help parent the other one setting up. I want to talk a little bit about that because there are a lot of people who are parenting siblings. There are a lot of people, how do we avoid that dynamic from happening? And how do we think about parenting differently? Because I tried never to compare my daughters as girls.

53:32I tried to avoid even, for example, having conversations about grades at the table, right? or who did what better, you know, not to say that we couldn't reward, but I tried never to, well, you tell us and now you report out because the younger sibling is always catching up to the older one, you know. But I always tried to be mindful of that, especially with two girls of how do I love them both, parent them both, but keep my parenting neutral enough that they don't feel like they're competing with one another. But I think about that to this day to make sure that that doesn't happen. I don't know about how you guys think about that.

54:18I mean, there's three girls in our house. And my parents initially, they were like, we're going to have four years between the first and second with the thought of, as we have to start paying for college, one's still in high school. And by the time that one is out, so they could afford it. Perhaps my little sister who came seven years after me I said accident. They said, no, it was a plan. But it created such a weird space dynamic where my older sister became like a mom. You know what I mean? My older sister was doing all of the parent type of stuff at a younger age because both my parents worked and did overtime.

54:56And they were both going to college when we were very young. So a lot fell on her and it never changed like to this day. You know what I mean? Like my sister is the one, you know, with my dad at skilled nursing and, you know, making sure everything like every day, in addition to going to work, in addition to her kids and her new grandchild, it's kind of never ended. And then I kind of got to be sort of free. You know what I mean? Like I had, there was no expectation of me to do anything but get good grades. And then my little sister was kind of like, it was sort of towards the end of their, you know, the good years of their marriage.

55:39So she just kind of became this extra person. You know what I mean? Not that she was parenting herself, but it just was very different. Very different. Like my little sister still gets on my mom's lap and, you know, my mom rocks her. You know what I mean? Still. And I just kind of had to figure out, you know, I leaned much heavier on my friends. They were a much bigger influence. But somehow, because they probably thought, oh, the middle child is getting nothing, they ended up giving me more, more attention, more special time. And then it kind of, according to them, I sort of emerged as the favorite.

56:21But it's really kind of like you're watching, you're observant. And I'm like, okay, my dad's super, always wanted a boy. I'm going to be the closest thing to, you know, a boy that he can have. Like, right. I'm giving, I'm doing all the sports. I'm learning the IBAC formation. Like I know Nebraska football backwards and forwards, but then my mom is like very, you know, cultured and she likes museums and, you know, all of that. I'm like, bet I'm there. Like I become a history buff. Like, you know, we used to go to the, the, um, newsstand and buy newspapers from around the world. And, you know, so I tried to appeal to, you know, you kind of appeal to their ego.

56:53With a politician, you were in the middle, And you have also temperamentally, you have that ability. I'd say this to Barack when it comes to, you know, our oldest, Malia, is very much, she is, she's going to figure out who you are, what do you like, and let's discuss, right? Unusual. She's always been that way, you know. I used to say Barack was like, when Malia was a teenager, it wasn't like she was going out any less or doing anything differently. She would tell me, I'm going out this weekend, but I'm going to go in and give dad like 15 minutes. And she'd go into the treaty room and tell me about Syria.

57:38Oh, wow, really? Oh, I must be, you know, and then she'd be like, okay, well, I'm gone. Barack would come out of the treaty room going, well. Just poked out. I just had an amazing conversation with Malia, you know, and I'm like, okay, you know, and Sasha is like a cat. She's like, don't touch me. Don't pet me. I'm not pleasing you. You come to me, you know, and Barack's like, well, she's difficult. I was like, no, the first one was a pleaser, right? And it was just temperamentally, they're still like that, right? So, you know, if you're not sort of understanding the temperament, so you were probably temperamentally somebody who just understood people dynamic in a different way, right?

58:26You have to be a chameleon. You have to be a chameleon. And if you can be a chameleon, you know, but some people parent to one child or one personality child, but then you have three. Yeah. You know? They parented, I think, towards me.

58:47This back-to-school season, spend less on your kids with Amazon. I remember when my wife Kelly and I would be running around to a million different stores chasing down spiral notebooks, lunchboxes, and that one specific calculator that somehow every math teacher requires. And look, I love my kids, but I don't love fighting over the last pack of highlighters in a crowded store at 7 p.m. on a Tuesday. That's why I love Amazon. Amazon has everything for back to school. Backpacks, pencils, clothes, snacks, and even those dry erase markers the teachers secretly hoard. All delivered fast, right to my doorstep.

59:30One click, no stress, boom. And the best part, I can shop from my couch. With my now 15-year-old and 13-year-old, I grab their school supply list and I'm all set. Now, instead of running around town stressed out, I get to actually enjoy the last days of summer with my kids. We're doing movie nights, bike rides, even, dare I say, back-to-school fashion shows in the living room. Parents, do yourself a favor. Go to Amazon. Get your back-to-school checklist done in like five minutes while saving a few bucks. So remember, with Amazon's low back-to-school prices, just spend less on your kids because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them.

1:00:26Let me go to what Craig and I know. We know sports. And so, you know, I've saw coaches try that when one person mess up, the whole team suffers, right? And then I saw teams where the best player on the team is exempt from what the others have to do. And so, one, I don't know if it's the right answer to this, right? But what I do know, when it comes to the bending of the team, what we've responded more to is when we all get the same punishments. And I've been on teams where we had the big three and the little 12 of teams where we haven't. And when three is pushed up and others are not, you feel some resentment there and you can see it and feel it.

1:01:14And so then it becomes on the leaders to like have to go back and like, no, I'm not. And so I think from a sports standpoint, just, you know, when it comes to the parenting side of it is the work will show. Right. If coach is treating us all the same, how do I get how do I get more? It's going to I'm going to do more work. And so I think when it comes to parenting, you know, coming in, understanding that they're all individual. But, you know, here's the rules and here's the regulations. And you're going to show me what you deserve and what you should have, not, you know, not anything else. And it's going to be from your work.

1:01:49And that's kind of how, you know, I approach the relationship with, you know, I've had a son since I was 23, all the way down to Cobb at six. I approach the relationship with each one of them as individuals, but also too. I love Cobb. that's my baby, but I'm on her too, because your work has to show when you want certain things. If not, we don't get those. And so I go. We just had this heated discussion the other day, you know, because he's never raised girls. And I grew up with three girls. And you can see how our father spoke to us and how he, the tones he used and the analogies, how it's impacted all of us to this day when it comes to the men in our lives and the choices we've made surrounding men.

1:02:35And so I'm like, okay, feels a little harsh, feels a little harsh, but also trying to figure out what is the balance? Like, how do you break them of a habit without breaking them? And it's a very delicate balance. and each kid is so different, so different. And Kav, like, you know, I came in, I came into the rescue and wrong answer, wrong answer. And it came back to bite me very fast. Kav became so fast. And I don't remember what I said to her that caused her to be staring me down all day Sunday. I don't remember. I told her to, I don't know, share, stop doing something. We had a little play date or whatever.

1:03:18And she was like, she gave you the look. Hours, hours. She's on the trampoline across the yard. So is it different? You can coach her a certain way, but you can't? I don't know if I can't. I am. Yeah. I am. And it has to start, you know, and she's six. And so, and I'm her basketball coach right now, right? I'm the one who's training her. And I told her mom, I said, her and our relationship is going to be a little different. Different on the court. Because the things I'm going to have, the things she's going to have to do to want to be a great athlete. When she said, oh, I want to be better than Angie Reese.

1:04:01Okay. You said that. I hear you. And so the things you're going to have to do, you're not going to want to do. And so, yeah, my tone going to be a little different than your mom's. You know, I'm going to look at, our conversation is going to be a little different. And so I believe from my understanding, she respects it. She respects the way that I communicate. She don't like it, but I can see her right away. When we get done with that moment, she comes, we hug, we don't miss a beat. She's not staring me down. We on the couch. So it's a different dynamic that we have. Not saying her mom needs to have that dynamic, but this is how this is going to go.

1:04:38I'm coached. Yeah, yeah. But to get back to Charlotte, it really feels like she should be focused first on her relationship with her sister. Yeah, I think we all agree on that. Because that's the thing she can control, right? And control is a strong word, but it's the closest and most real relationship in this dynamic. So I think we all agree at this table, in our opinion. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ooh. I want to be there for like Easter. I know. Really. Even the next family gathering. I want to know what advice she took, what direction she went in. I know. I don't even know about advice. Right. Really.

1:05:21She's like, they were all wrong. That's okay, Charlotte. This is the perfect time to figure out some tips that we can give Charlotte to navigate through this. But the first tip that we all agreed on is that work on your relationship with your sister. So that's one. And just the sister relationship. Right. Not that I'm taking care of you. I'm going to fix it. I'm going to. It's just you and me just being. Yeah. Yeah. And anything else come to mind? She said space. We talked about space. Space. We talked about space. Space. That's a good tip. Siblings need it. And also, this is a good time to be a little introspective.

1:06:05Is there something that you are doing, Charlotte, that could be the thing that doesn't allow your sister to want to tell you? As my husband has pointed out numerous times with me and my little sister, I had to check myself. Because I'm not the warm and fuzzy, come to me with your problems. I'm the person you come to when you're ready to solve it. But the listening and the, you know, getting to know like how this, you know, the situation started. No, that's not me. But I had to check myself. Why didn't you tell me anything? Maybe it's the tone that you're speaking. And I had to come to have a come to Jesus with myself.

1:06:42Or maybe it's what we talk about, right? Like sometimes a good friend of ours told us this. Lauren, she came over and told us this. Sometimes when people tell you stuff, they just want you to listen. They don't really want your advice sometimes. And I think it's trying to find, like, do you want, like, and we had this conversation, do you want my advice or do you just want me to listen? And sometimes, because of our positions, we give us so much advice. Charlotte's sister may not want your advice. She just may want you to just be there. Listen. And not always give your two cents. Excellent. Anything else?

1:07:16Any more tips from you? No, I think that's pretty thorough. I think the overall, my message to the listening audience is, let's start with the thinking about how we parent our children as siblings. That, you know, what choices as parents are we making that can affect that dynamic? And is that something that we as parents can look at in terms of how we talk to our children, how we compare them, how we set them up? Because if we want our kids to have this foundation and this relationship going forward, it starts when they're little. And it oftentimes is very impacted by how parents parent. And that's just as important as what you do to the individual is how do you create the bond among your children?

1:08:11That requires work and thought. And time. And intention. Yeah. Consistency. Well, you guys, thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Giving us a lot to think about. No, really. Touching on some things. Yeah. No, it's great. Thank you guys. And able to help Charlotte. Yes. No, this is great. You guys are the best. No. Yeah, I appreciate it. And good luck with all the things. Yeah. And stay ready to go. We stay ready, so we've got to get the A.V. ready. It's gold time. It's gold time.

1:09:06I'm Hoda Kotb from Making Space. Okay, you and I are both on the other side of the jump, whether it is life after the White House, or in my case, life after the Today Show. So what has this new chapter taught you about starting something new at any stage, about being a beginner again? I would encourage all your listeners to embrace those transitions, to practice them. It's a muscle and not to run away from change, but to embrace it as much as possible and turn that into something really special. There's a lot of learning that happens on the other side of our fear of change. And I'm living proof of that.

1:09:49You know, nothing keeps me sharper these days as somebody who's getting up there in years than doing something completely new and foreign. And with Misha and I doing IMO, it gives me particularly an opportunity to do something that is completely outside of my wheelhouse of experience that I've had before now. Please give Making Space a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And make sure you tell your friends, follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now.