Take Back Control of Your Health with Dr. Sharon Malone

0:00The one thing I would say to women is this, no one's coming to save you. So if you think that the president or the governor or your state legislator is coming to save you, they're not. But they will if you make them.

0:22This special health-focused episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. Hey, Mish. Hey, Craig Robinson. Today's topic is one that's near and dear to me. Now, one of the reasons why I'm excited about, one of the many reasons I'm excited about our platform, IMO, is that we really get to talk about a whole array of issues that we both care about. But this topic today is particularly of note for me because we're going to be talking about women's health. We've got one of our dear friends, Dr. Sharon Malone, on. And she's going to talk about her new book, new podcast that we're excited about.

1:15But we want to talk about a whole range of things. And in many ways, to have a guy like yourself on in the midst of this conversation to some people might seem funny because a lot of men don't feel a connection to women's health. Because quite frankly, oftentimes we as women don't understand our own issues. And we're going to talk a little bit about that. But I think you are in a unique position because we grew up in a household where women had voices. And despite the fact that we grew up in such an open household for that time in life, for that stage of our lives, I'm still surprised at how little I know about my own body.

2:08and how many things we didn't talk about, not because our parents weren't open to it, but they didn't know. So we're going to talk more about this, but let's introduce, let's get Sharon in on the conversation. Yeah, and you said Sharon's family and I could introduce her without the notes, but I'm going to read Dr. Sharon Malone's bio here. Dr. Sharon is a nationally recognized OBGYN with over 30 years of experience, a New York Times bestseller with her book, Grown Woman Talk, and a longtime advocate for providing practical information on women's health and aging. So here to join us is a good friend and just basically a family member, Dr.

3:02Sharon Malone. Welcome to IMO. Hello, Sharon. So good to have you with us. Thank you for having me. Thank you, thank you. Rogue Warrior, because this woman here has been all over the country promoting Grown Woman Talk. I am so proud of you for so much. but you did the thing, writing this amazing, creative, fun, funny, informative, open, honest book about women's health with a particular focus on women of color, but it's a book for everyone, men, women, people of all races and all ages, because you cover the spectrum of just some of the things that women go through. Can you talk a bit about why you wanted to write the book and how you're feeling about things?

4:00Yes. I want to thank both of you for having me here because we've had many conversations like this just around the kitchen table. And to be able to share this is really special. And I remember You know, when I left my clinical practice now, it's been four and a half years ago, I had none of this in mind. I wasn't planning to write a book. I wasn't planning to be out here in menopause world, none of it. But, you know, you got to be ready when things happen. And I remember how encouraging you were for me. You were like, girl, come on, you can do this. And I was so nervous after I wrote the book.

4:38And I was like, oh, I don't know if you want to read it. You didn't show it to me, right? It took so many, it's like, okay, Sharon, I know you have a rough draft. I was getting a little insulted for a second there. Well, you know what it is, and you can appreciate this, Craig. Yes, I can. I knew that if I asked her to read the book, she was going to give me her honest opinion of the book. And sometimes I wasn't sure if I was ready for that, you know what I mean? So welcome to the world of the Robinsons. I was like, oh, I said, wait a minute, maybe it sucks and she's going to tell me. And how about this?

5:15She's getting offended that you're not showing it to her. I was like, okay. It's like, you know, I'm not ready for constructive criticism yet. I want to get it in the right position to show it to you. Well, to give some folks some context. I mean, Sharon and I, we've known each other since that day, that evening at the Black Caucus when we first, actually our eyes first met, right? Because this was a time where, what was Eric? Sharon's husband happens to be former Attorney General Eric Holder. He's a non-factor. You know, I - He is not a non-factor. He is a non-factor in our relationship. Okay, let's contextualize that.

6:01Although they put us together because we were both reluctant spouses attending one of these huge dinners. Okay. And where were they? Was Barack a U.S. senator at the time? Yes, he was a senator because you were still living in Chicago. And Eric was in private practice. So it was the very early days. And she came to D.C. And you didn't come to D.C. much in those days. No, ma 'am. And they sit us at a table. And we were seated just about like this. She was across the table from me. Okay. And you know how there are things going on around us. And I would just look over at her. Well, and the things were, there was a line of people waiting to shake hands with our respective husbands.

6:46You know, people like reaching over our heads and spilling water on us, trying to get to these two, you know, illustrious men, you know. And she had the same look on her face as I did. Like, here we go, you know. And I looked over at this beautiful woman. Did we even have a conversation? Not until later in that afternoon. So you hadn't met? We hadn't met. You just saw each other. But I just saw the look on her face, which expressed the sentiments that I felt, which was - Pissed off. No, it was just kindred spirits. It's like, you see this, don't you? You see this. I see you. This is crazy, isn't it, girl?

7:30That was the look. And it was like, without words spoken, And I was like, I want to get to know this woman. So when Barack got into office and appointed Eric as his attorney general, there were just a couple of women like that, particularly sisters, Black women in DC, that I knew I was going to need my kitchen table there. And I had to do what I've told people to do in my books, which is like, you got to go out and find your friends. You got to find your people. And I invited you and a couple of other people over to the Hay Adams, because it was before we were even able to get into the White House, just for like a girlfriend's lunch.

8:14And I don't know what that call was like for you, but for me, I was like, I just, before this thing gets started, I need some info. I need to get a sense of where am I? What's this city about? Who can I trust? And I instinctively thought of Sharon. And she was on the top of my list of people that I wanted to know. And we had an amazing, was it lunch or breakfast? Oh, it was lunch and it was supposed to be an hour. And we talked for three. So you can imagine. So we're sitting there and it's like, okay, I don't have anywhere to go, but you're not busy. And we had, and that started it. And we've been talking ever since.

8:53And that's when we really started having some really deep conversations about our health as women. how we neglected. Many of us were Black women around the table. We learned from Sharon all that we didn't know. So a lot of times those weekends would turn into Sharon advisory sessions because we'd bring her questions about health, things on our bodies, prescriptions. We would use her as a second opinion from our own doctors to make sure that we were covered. But your book touches on more than just the medical side of things. I mean, your book opens up with something as simple as how do you choose a medical provider?

9:34You know, I think if you think about how the medical system, you know, at its inception, it was never made for women and it was certainly never made for black women. So whatever, you're a second tertiary thought in this whole process. And I think that how we pick doctors, you know, how do we even evaluate a doctor is something most of us haven't thought about because you get it from your friend or you may, you know, get it from your insurance book or whatever. But there is really a process that you should go through where you can decide, I don't have to just go to this person who continually disrespects me or I don't have to continue to go to a person when I complain, they don't hear me or they don't address my complaints.

10:21Those are the kinds of things you have to think about. And yes, it's important to know about board certification and where they went to medical school. That's important, but not the essential piece of this doctor-patient relationship you're going to have. Well, and we were raised on the doctor set. I mean, doctors for at least our generation and older, they're revered members of the community. They were second to God. And so the thought that you would question or even have the right or authority to question. So many of us, if in the Black community, you even ever saw a doctor, right? But if you did have a doctor, you just fell into the arms of that person and took everything that they said about you as being the truth.

11:09And if all these doctors or most of these doctors were men, who are not even trained in understanding women's health in that same way. And I want you to talk a little bit about how that happens. As I said, women were really an afterthought, you know, because, you know, when I say in the old days, in the 19th century, they didn't have a lot of treatments anyway. So they didn't have a lot of treatment for anybody. This is pre-antibiotics and surgery and anesthesia and all that. But there's this whole, there's this mythology about women's bodies. And women's bodies were unclean, contemptible. Ew, you know, that was sort of how the medical profession, they didn't even want to examine women, you know, in that era.

11:57And what era was that? This is like, this is in the 1800s. And as we move into the 20th century, now this may surprise you, but it wasn't until 1993 that it was mandated that women be included in clinical trials. 1993. Most of what we know about medications, most of what we know about medical devices, the research has been done on men and extrapolated to women because the thought was, well, women are complicated. They've got all these hormone things going on. And we don't really want to, you know, that'll mess up our research. So it's just easier to work with somebody that, you know, is in a different, in the same state every day.

12:46So 1993 is the first time women were included. So most of what we know has been post then. But I'll do something, I'll give you something that was shocking even to me. Because as I was doing the research for my book, I said, well, okay, how much is spent on women's, health and research. And as of the 2022 figures, NIH, which is the largest funder of medical research - Which is now being - Dismantled, yes. By the way. But in 1993, NIH had a$45 billion budget that they endowed for medical research. of that$45 billion, less than 11 % of that$45 billion went to conditions that either primarily or exclusively affect women.

13:40Less than 11%. Now we're 51 % of the population. So all of the things that we still are asking questions about, menopause, perimenopause, the healthcare disparities in maternal health, you name it, everything that we have, migraines, fibroids, endometriosis, all of those things that affect women, they don't get funded. And so that's sort of how we are. And now to Misha's point and to what's going on in society, we're moving backwards again. I mean, so that just made me think, where do you send women to get proper information on all of this stuff, reproductive, IVF, HPV, all of the things, menopause, where do you send people for information?

14:37Well, there are certain things that I think that government is uniquely situated to do because the private sector does what the private sector does and they're interested in, they want a new drug. They don't want to look at an old drug because there's no money to be made in an old drug. And so a lot of the things that we are looking at, even like hormone replacement, we're still basically working with the same data from 30 years ago because there's not been any funding for the new research. And this is the frustrating thing about the fight to protect women's reproductive health. Sadly, it has been reduced to choice the question of choice.

15:27Right. And it's as if that's all of what women's health is. That's the only thing. And as I attempted to make the argument on the campaign trail this past election was that there's just so much more at stake. And because so many men have no idea about what women go through, right? We haven't been researched, we haven't been considered, and it still affects the way a lot of male lawmakers, a lot of male politicians, a lot of male religious leaders think about the issue of choice as if it's just about the fetus, the baby. But women's reproductive health is about our life. it's about this whole complicated reproductive system that does the least of what it does is produce life it's a very important thing that it does but you only produce life if the machine that's producing it if you want to you know whittle us down to a machine if the machine is functioning in a healthy streamlined kind of way but there is no discussion or apparent connection between the two.

16:49Sharon, can you talk a bit about sort of the state of the current state? What's keeping you up at night of the many things that keep you up at night about the state of women's health? Yes. I think that one of the things that is disturbing to me is that somehow or the other, government has gotten involved in decisions that are personal and healthcare care decisions. It's not just about whether someone chooses to have a pregnancy or not, but you should have, this is a situation where a woman should have control over her body when and if to have a baby and to decide how that pregnancy should continue.

17:37Because let me say this. If doctors are afraid to do their job, and this is not about abortion. This is about a woman who is in, who is miscarrying, her life is in danger, or she is in a position where we know that this pregnancy is not going to continue. And a doctor is afraid that they're going to go to jail because they are helping that woman to make sure that she'll live to be able to do this again. These are the kinds of things that are very worrisome. And let me tell you what the downstream effect of that is. In states where there are the most restrictive in the post-Dobbs world, So if I'm a young person and I want to be an OBGYN, one, I might choose not to be an OBGYN.

18:35And if I do choose that as my profession, am I going to want to train in a state where my career is in jeopardy? Am I going to want to stay in practice in a state where I have to worry about whether someone's going to drop a dime on me and turn me in because I did something to save someone's life or to preserve their fertility? And that's enough. But what happens when you don't have doctors in those states? What about all those other things? Remember I told you, you've got all the other things to worry about, fibroids and endometriosis and all the other things. Now there's no doctor there. What about the woman who's having a completely normal pregnancy and she needs a doctor to deliver her?

19:25And there's no one there. How does that in any way, shape, or form improve women's health? you know, it's setting us back because, you know, now we're in a, now we're in a situation where everyone, now you have no access and that's a problem.

19:52This next segment is presented by our friends at Cologuard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. You know, when I first got my job at Oregon State, I was in my 40s, sort of early 40s, and I really hadn't had a doctor of my own. And I got a doctor finally, Dr. Chen, and got my first sort of blood screening at that point in time. Because, you know, growing up, we went to the clinic when we got sick. And then once I moved to Corvallis, I started getting physicals every single year. And from then on, I felt like, okay, I'm taking care of my own health a little bit better than I had before. So Dr.

20:39Sharon, how'd I do? You know what, you did great, Craig, but you know what, your experience is not unlike most people's. Most of us did not grow up going to doctors on a regular basis. So can you talk, Dr. Sharon, about an essential thing that we can do for our health as we get older? Why is screening for colon cancer so important? Colon cancer is one of the most common types of cancer in the United States. And as a physician, I've unfortunately seen firsthand how common it is. In my clinical practice, I have seen patients getting diagnosed with stage 3 or stage 4 colon cancer because they waited too long to get screened.

21:17And these are young, healthy people. There are even patients in their early to mid-40s with no family history of colon cancer. What people don't realize is that there is no such thing as being low risk. Colon cancer affects all genders, races, and ethnicities. I can even personally attest to how serious and prevalent this cancer is. I lost my mother to colon cancer when I was 12 years old. My older sister was diagnosed with colon cancer over a decade ago. The difference in outcomes is due solely to early detection. My mother was never screened for colon cancer, and she paid the ultimate price.

21:57My sister, due to early diagnosis and treatment, is alive and cancer-free. This is why colon cancer screening for everyone, whether you have a family history or not, is important. Can you talk a little bit about colon cancer screening and options people have? The good news about colon cancer is that it's detectable early with routine screening. Because younger people are being diagnosed with colon cancer, the recommended age for starting screening is now 45, not 50. And that's why I wanted to make sure listeners are aware of the Cologuard test, which is an effective, non-invasive test that detects cancer and precancer.

22:37As a physician, I recommend the Cologuard test because it is a solution for all the standard roadblocks that prevent people from screening via colonoscopy. They're thinking, well, how am I going to take off work? Who's going to pick me up from the procedure? How am I going to deal with all the prep the day before? But for those who are at average risk, meaning you don't have a personal or family history of colon cancer, polyps, or inflammatory bowel disease, the Cologuard test is a convenient and affordable test that is delivered to your home and can be done on your own schedule. No prep, no scheduling, no missing work.

23:18With the Cologuard test, there is simply no excuse not to screen. So do it. However you go about getting screened, we just want to remind you to not let your health take a back seat. Thanks again to Cologuard for being a partner of our show and reminding us of the importance of getting screened for colon cancer. Talk to your healthcare provider or you can request a Colaguard prescription today at colaguard.com slash podcast. The Colaguard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. False positives and false negatives can occur. This special health-focused episode of IMO is brought to you by Colaguard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test.

24:07As we discussed earlier with Dr. Sharon, getting screened for colon cancer is a crucial part of prioritizing our health as we get older, especially because right now, colon cancer is considered the most preventable, yet least prevented, cancer out there. As it stands, colon cancer is on the rise in people under 50, which is why the American Cancer Society recommends that if you're at average risk, you begin screening at 45. Even if you live a healthy lifestyle and don't have symptoms, no one is at low risk for colon cancer. We want to make sure our listeners know that colon cancer can be treatable in 9 out of 10 people.

24:54But the key here is that it has to be caught early. With the Cologuard test, you can take control of your colon cancer screening through a prescription-based test with none of the prep that's required of a colonoscopy. Not only is the Cologuard test effective for colon cancer screening, but it can even detect pre-cancer. And in addition to its convenience, the Cologuard test is also affordable. Most insured patients find they pay nothing out of pocket. With zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door, don't let your health take a backseat. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Coligard test.

25:49You can also request a ColoGuard prescription today at coloGuard.com slash podcast. The ColoGuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a ColoGuard test if you have adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Cologuard test is not a replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur.

26:37Cologuard is available by prescription only.

26:46Just the fact that we've abandoned science, that now medicine is what we're going to look at and how we're going to make policy is based on whoever's in charge, their particular priorities. And science and evidence be damned. We're not looking at that now. And let me just say, a lot of what we do, yes, we do have to infer. We don't have absolute evidence for everything, but we have a good amount, particularly for things like vaccines that have been around for, you know, for certainly as long as we've been alive. We have a track record on those. And to sort of throw science out the window because someone has a cockamamie theory about it is pretty troubling.

27:39If that's the road that we're going to be on, you know, and we are seeing the results of that now. But we're seeing more and more conversations from anti-vaxxers, right? We saw it during COVID. What's that about? Why are we all of a sudden, after all these generations now, pushing against vaccines that have saved lives for decades? Well, you know, it matters who's in charge. And I think sort of the way medical research used to work was that, you know, there were researchers and there are people at NIH and there are scientists who, you know, do the, who actually do the work. And the work drives the policy, not necessarily the other way around.

28:31Now, granted, there is some, because there are people deciding what research gets funded and what doesn't. That's always been the case. but now we're having at the highest levels, people decide, no, we're not doing that. And you kind of go, wait a minute, but we've got 50 years of data on that. And it's as if that does not exist. And we're just gonna do, and we're gonna serve the theories and whims of whoever happens to be. And so it's not really coming, from the scientific community. It's really coming from someone else who has a very different view of what they think is important. And they're embracing some theories and some conspiracies that really have no basis in science.

29:22And that's a problem if that's how we're going to continue to do research in this country. And we're seeing that with this measles outbreak. So what's going on there? This is in Texas, correct? Yeah. I mean, they've got what, like now over 500 cases of measles, a disease that was considered eradicated in this country. And here's the thing, like take, for instance, smallpox. Okay. Smallpox was a terrible thing. And then everybody got vaccinated. It's been declared by the World Health Organization. It's eradicated. Now no one gets it. But if you allow the measles to come back and more and more people are unvaccinated, and the thing that people really don't remember about why it's so important to get an MMR, the MMR part of it was rubella.

30:16And rubella was why pregnant women get it. And guess what? You have congenital defects in children, deafness, blindness, birth defects in pregnant women who are unvaccinated. vaccinated. So as bad as it is amongst the children, yes. Will most of them survive? Yes, they will. But what about everybody else? What about the ones that don't? And one child dying is too many, but now you're going to infect pregnant women and unborn children. And if you really care about unborn children, that seems to me a good enough reason to vaccinate. So if you're a mother that's vaccinated, does that protect your unborn child?