Trust Your Kids with Mara Brock Akil

29:25You're like, guys, guys, guys, what are we doing? Why can't we smile? Yes. What is this? And making room for that because they're trying to protect themselves. And again, trying to protect, I think, what we keep overlooking and missing and not built to hold for them.

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34:26View important disclosures at acorns.com slash IMO.

34:36Well, I will say for me, growing up, I know you remember this, but you wouldn't know this. I went to an all boys high school. Oh, how was that? And it was, talk about storytelling. I I could tell a bunch of stories about that, but it took the pressure off of having to perform every day in order to attract girls. That's what, in looking back, at the time, I didn't realize this. At the time, I was like, geez, this is a lot of dudes around here. And it was a Catholic school, so it was very rigid. So any social interaction, any social interactions were intentionally put upon us with dances with the girls school.

35:28Right, right, right, right. So inevitably, there was enough people there where you could actually go ask somebody to dance. If you wanted to ask a black girl to dance, you could. If you wanted to ask a white girl to dance, it was like the proportions were about the same. and so I didn't feel like I was missing out on anything but did you feel like a threat as you grew could you feel society change I did not feel I did not feel that and I don't know when I started to I I didn't really feel like I was a threat until I was had gone away to college and then come back. Because I was a little bit more able to perceive slights toward me where I don't think I could in high school.

36:22You were just oblivious. I was either oblivious or I didn't run into it because I was an athlete. To your point about how... Well, yeah, there is a privilege that comes with athletes. There's a privilege that comes with being an athlete and not even a good athlete. All you have to be is on the team and people treated you differently. And my Catholic school was mostly white. So there were, and there was the odd slight, the one teacher who thought, okay, you shouldn't apply to Princeton because you won't get in. Right. That kind of thing. But we were used to that. Seems like there's a lot of those in the counseling department.

37:02We were used to that. But when I really think back on feeling like I didn't feel like I was a threat until I started driving around. The first time I felt like I was a threat when I got pulled over just for driving a car. Yeah, driving while black. But I was prepared for that, right? I was prepared for it. It doesn't make it right, but I was prepared for it. And now when I think about my sons and I think about, I'm listening to you talk to your sons and we're watching forever. And, you know, this was when they were 14 and 12. Now they're 15 and 13. So they were young. And thanks to Malia, because we were no R-rated stuff until you get to 16.

37:50You need a big cousin. You need a big cousin. She ripped that. She ripped that band-aid off. And Kelly and I were like, ooh. So we watched it. And there were some, as you know, there were some scenes that we were like, we're shaking more than the boys were. and but it forces communication absolutely good discussion about these things yes and thank you for that and I think that's what I would hope that Forever can do so when I hear about families watching it together I feel like it's just that opportunity not only to talk about sexual health but talk about their emotional health in to themselves to their friend group and to their their significant other and to their household and ultimately to their future.

38:38Because that's what we're really trying to protect is that, yes, you should go through this rite of passage, but how do you get through it in a healthy way of sound mind and body? Yeah, and that's the goal, right? That's what it did for us. And it is uncomfortable to think about this for any child, but it's gonna happen eventually. And I think the privilege and the joy is it to happen while they're under our roof. That we can witness them. I so agree. And not that we want our children to fall, but if they're going to fall, let them fall. And come home. And come home. I say that all the time. And let them fall right there so they can see themselves.

39:21Well, then, Mara, this is what you're saying about Black kids. You want them to have enough social experience, and I'm talking to my brother too, you know, because there's a balance of you worry about them being out and being in the wrong house. And the parents aren't this and they aren't that. But that's coming. They're going to - With or without. In high school, sophomore, two, three years, it's going to happen. When we're having our discussions during and after the show, I asked the boys, so what is the thing that comes to your mind when you're watching this? Oh. And you know what they said?

40:03we compare your parenting to their parenting wow isn't that so who are you well of course i'm the dad that's what i want but i'm not as cool you guys i'm not i'm not that i'm not that cool But they were really focused in on comparing the show's parenting style to our parenting style. Wow. And in the middle, we'd be watching it and it's like, oh yeah. Because the truth is they'd be like, mom would never do that. Or, oh, that's exactly what mom would do. Or, dad, you'd never let us do this. But that's why I love the show because it helps to check parents because we are so afraid. We are so afraid.

40:57So many parents out of deep love. It's deep love. You don't want your baby. I mean, the thought. That's why we're as happy as our least happy child. That's saying every parent knows it. Every parent feels it. But sometimes we don't realize that we parent out of our fears. Of course. We parent out of our desire not to feel the hurt and we couch it in terms of I'm doing it for them. Yes. I mean, there was a whole lot of stuff going on in the Robinson household. So it was really cathartic for our family. That's what I'm hearing, that there's a big sigh, a big deep breath, another regroup. Okay, everybody, let's figure this out.

41:46on all sides. And they also need to see our flaws. It is so helpful for them. I mean, I think one of the biggest reliefs was when I thought my parents were perfect because, and not perfect in some ridiculous way. I couldn't see their flaws, but there comes a point. And I was in college and I'd gone off and studied sociology and psychology. And then I could bring all those theories back and pick apart my parents. Yes. Right? Yes. But that was sort of a necessary thing to realize, oh, my father's relationship to his MS is not healthy. The notion that he, we would applaud the fact that our father just got up and he went to work and he never sacrificed for anybody and he never took a day off.

42:40This is a man who had MS. Oh my God. And as I got older, I was like, why aren't we looking at therapies? Why isn't he going to the doctor more? Why are we bragging about the fact that he never stops when MS is a disease that is so debilitating that there's sometimes he needs to stop? What is it about him? What is it about my mother? Where we've created this heroic paradigm that is not healthy at all. That's the beauty of progress, right? Sometimes it takes, you don't like sometimes how long it can take because of the different constraints on us. But I think as a storyteller, sometimes I have to keep going back to the origin of things and you realize, oh, that's why he didn't stop.

43:34He didn't stop because stopping meant something different to us a few generations ago. You two may not be here if other generations didn't stop. But at some point - There's no food on the table. But at some point, to your point, where are we at the tipping point where it's going to kill us in other ways if we don't think about how we take care of ourselves and as we fight continuously for our humanity. And it comes with sometimes the ability to rest and reflect, to look at the patterns, to look at, to examine. I'm going to apply this knowledge I have at some of the best institutions we have in our country and I'm going to take it back to my family.

44:21That's what I would love that we can do. And that excites me in a lot of ways, even though there's a lot of work still to be done. Oh, for sure.

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48:09I really want you to talk a bit about your staying power in this industry. You know, you were one of the youngest showrunners, Black showrunners. Yes. I mean, you have put out hit after hit after hit. And in a business where it doesn't happen, you got a season two on Netflix. My love for it. I, accepting that I, accepting my purpose in my life, I think is my staying power. And actually as much as I want to make hit after hit after hit, I really enjoy making. I love the stories of us. I just see so many, so many opportunities that were missing at the time that I came in the industry. It felt like, guys, there's so many stories.

48:59I did have to develop, how do I sell those? which can be very challenging at times. Can you talk more about that? It's interesting.

49:12Honestly, it's akin to how Black people have succeeded in America throughout, is that oftentimes America will ask of us to come in when things are in chaos, are in turmoil. Oh, I feel that. You know a little something about that? think about that. Think about that moment when we don't know what to do. Then now maybe there could be a first Black president. So when Girlfriends came about, UPN, the network, was in trouble. Nobody would touch that network. And I took all the legacy. I treated it as a value and found other people who also saw this opportunity as valuable and led from that place. So typically, if you go back in the pattern of my career, I have made leaps when the industry was changing in a way that felt like a little bit of the sky is falling kind of vibes.

50:23So that was one way. And the third part that's very important to me is job creation. I know that if I'm able to take this idea that's floating out here in my heart and I can land it on the page and it becomes a lighthouse for other talent to come and join me, I also know that it's feeding families. And that my staying power is not just about my own need to tell stories. And you're doing this in real time, not just from your programs, but you are mentoring the next generation of creatives. Can you talk a bit about that? Thank you. Oh, thank you. I have produced over 400 episodes of television. And with that, that has inspired a lot of young people who typically are, their families are saying, please go to be a doctor, go be a banker, go be a lawyer.

51:30Again, because it feels safe for us as parents. Because it feels safe as parents, but we have inspired them to want to be storytellers, which I personally believe is the most valuable asset we as humans have is our story. The challenge is that the industry changing and it looked like a gold rush yesterday. It doesn't feel like that today, but there's a long line of people who want to tell, we're now inspired to tell their story. And I can't pretend I don't see it. And so the way I thought is that I would have a writer's colony and I built a residence. It's been four years. It's a place to write.

52:09It's a place to belong and a place to find your voice. What we don't need, we don't need another Mara. We need what, there's something in you that you and God want to get out as sort of like a co-creation idea. You need to get that out, but where are you going to get your foothold? And even signal to family who's helping to typically all artists, they're supported by someone and typically it's the family. So the first venture capitalists are family, you know, family and friends, a family and friends round, right? That's right. And so the signal to even the writer themselves and the family that's supporting them, what could be created so that it feels like they can actually get into this institute, into this industry and thrive.

53:01And the reason why you do need a community of peers, mama and daddy and auntie and grandma and uncle. They're going to love your script, but you need - I know, right? You need objectivity. You need - Oh, baby. I mean, first of all, people are just blown away that you can write a hundred pages of everything. And I think the communication around the expectations from family, if you just sort of meet it with real conversations, hey, this is what I'm doing. This is what I understand the industry is. This is my strategy. Literally, I would mask my life so that I protected the ability for me to write.

53:37Well, this might be a good time to... Oh, look who's... Oh, I'm sorry. No, go ahead. No, no, do that. No, go ahead. For a listener question. Yes, it's perfect. It kind of ties into a lot of what we're talking about. And it's IMO's attempt to be sort of communal, you know? So we get a question from our listeners. And this question is from Julia, who happens to be from Los Angeles. Okay. Hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is Julia. I'm the daughter of immigrants, went to Princeton on scholarship where I felt like an outsider, and then took a job in finance, which I hated, before pivoting to teaching, which I still do now.

54:16I know both of you went to Princeton and then took jobs in lucrative fields like law and finance before pivoting to less lucrative but more fulfilling careers. People of color and immigrant kids often feel extraordinary pressure to go to the best schools and get the best, highest paid jobs because of the sacrifices and suffering of their parents, even if these schools and jobs are not the best fit. My parents, for example, worked at a fast food restaurant that burned during the LA uprising. I'm now the parent of teenagers and I wholeheartedly believe they do not need to go to an Ivy League school or have a highly paid job in medicine, law, or finance in order to be happy, quote, successful human beings.

54:54But I also know I have so much more privilege than my parents ever did and that my kids don't need these fancy degrees and jobs in the way I felt I did. what advice do you have for these kids and also for their parents oh my goodness this is the perfect question and we started talking about this so I didn't want to get too far into it I would think first is acknowledge that the awareness is beautiful she already knows Julia already knows that it's different and I think I know I go to therapy a lot, but she might need to sort of work on that guilt. That meaning, they're still embedded in the question, am I doing something?

55:49Did I do something right? And by nature of her, the privilege for her to pivot, her parents applaud them, that they got a child to Princeton through that experience into a career and have the presence of mind that this is not for me. That is the progress. That is the victory. That is it. And if there's can be made peace, I don't know if the diet, what that, not speaking, not knowing the full dynamic, but I hear a little bit and maybe I, of guilt perhaps. And by letting that go will free up parents who have journeyed through something themselves to then not bring that guilt into the parenting of the next generation.

56:43So the awareness is a beautiful step and maybe that next step would be there. But it sounds like Julia is doing a great job of awareness and knowing that she needs to parent different. I think communication, which is hard sometimes, and it's interesting. We talked about that from the beginning, that what we as parents are pouring into our kids to allow them, I think you were talking about even at the table, what can you offer back to the community when you were ready to, your debate skills and your communication skills. kids being back at that dinner table, having the support to add new ideas to the family, to grow the family.

57:27Our children have a lot of good ideas and likely in Julia, Princeton, her, even though she felt like an outsider, she probably was a good witness to a lot of good information that she could bring back to her family, to herself, and thus to her family, her growing family, but the kids do have things to offer. And I think we need to make room for them. They know themselves, especially when they are raised. I think it's whatever the dynamic of the family and they can help lead that new conversation. I'll tell you one. When I first was in Northwestern. I'm in LA making the little bit of money that I was making.

58:14But my grandmother kept sending me articles about teaching in LAUSD because my family had LAUSD on lock. That's the Los Angeles United School District. And at first it broke my heart. And I'm like, do they not understand what I'm trying to do, what I'm trying to do? I'm out here trying to do the thing? And I thought, no, they don't. And not only do they not understand it, Mara, you haven't fully let them know while you're still trying to figure it out. But this has hit me like a ton of bricks. They can't help you. There's no phone call they can make to say, look out for my baby. Can they get an interview?

58:55Can somebody read the script? There's nobody to call. So babies out in the desert. Yes. There's no community we can put around, no extra eyes on them. And then for me, what's my accountability as a child to help relieve some of that burden because, and then the check-in, this is what I'm doing. This is what I'm at. Or even, I gave myself two years. At the end of those two years, I sat down with Gina Prince-Pythewood. shout out to my friend you know woman king you know old guard all those things but we were we were this is after South Central there was an unemployment phase before Moesha in my gap and I said I and so I tasted it right I tasted it and I didn't feel like I was going to be able to keep going and I thought well teach for America I can maybe go to I wasn't going to teach I was like you know what if I'm going to teach I'm going to teach out in another country at least I'll get some travel out of this.

59:58And she said, stay an extra month. I later found out she only said that because she didn't know what else to say. And that's when Ralph Farquhar called me and said, hey, Mara, I got this show called Moesha. And so the timing of life too and the community, I was also able in that communication. Ralph only knew that because I had gone to his office when I had$50 in my pocket. And I was trying to be his assistant just to stay in. And he looked, he goes, you're not an assistant. You're a writer. Great compliment. Does not help my math problem. I got to eat. I got to eat. So I feel communicating also what your needs are in your community, being vulnerable enough to say, I have$50 in my pocket.

1:00:47I don't know what else to do. and somebody else offering something, whether it's not just encouragement or a meal or something to keep us going that matters who's around us. That's so perfect. And I'm just going to try and sum it all up. But you got another point. One other thing that I want to say is, just like you learned with your son, that the next generation has a vision and a voice. I think it's incumbent upon our generation of parents to realize that we don't know their future. We don't. So we can't always have a strong opinion because the world will be very different for them. Right. For our kids today, especially for your kids who are younger.

1:01:36Yep. And they're living in it. Yes. They're the ones living through it. They're the ones who are out there in school, surveying the land, understanding whatever industries they're in. And we're bystanders. So there's got to be some, I want to reemphasize the trust in the fact that you give your kids tools. You give them the best education that you can afford, which is not always a guarantee to anything. But like you said, you give them love. You give them unwavering support, not without criticism. And then at some point, you got to let them try out this new thing. This process. And I think in parenting too, sometimes if we get out of our own way, we can see them.

1:02:30And in seeing them, we can help them while they're in our daily care. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to add anything other than sort of summing it up because I love your math problem example. But I think what we don't do is we have our own math equation and we impose it on our kids rather than teaching them how to create their own math problem. Right. So when we look at our kids, we see this gigantic algebra problem. And they've got an arithmetic problem. And that's all they need to survive is make their arithmetic work. We're looking at it as if they're in our orbit. So I would say to Julia, take into consideration this math problem.

1:03:24And your math problem isn't their math problem. Let them figure out what their math problem is. And then to your point, both of you all's points, help them with their math problem. Yes. And then the other thing that was big there for Julia is don't impose your fears on your kids. And we all do that. Yes. Oh, my gosh. That's why you need the good girlfriends. Get it out in your community. Don't take it home. Have it in the chair of angst or the girlfriends thing. You just have it. Talk about it. and then keep your mouth shut and wait for the kids to need help, then help them. Don't try and help them before.

1:04:01So it's a lot. It's a lot. But the work that you do, Mara, just to bring these stories to light with humor, with truth, it really helps get the conversation going in so many ways. And that's why Forever is such a success along with everything else you're doing. Thank you. I just want to know what's going on with girlfriends. I love it that you asked you. You know. I want to say, are we going to get through this without asking about girlfriends? I love this. I wanted to be William. I wanted to be William when I was younger. Well, you sort of are. You're kind of a good guy. I named him after my brother.

1:04:50That's my brother's name. I named him after my brother. That was my dude back in the day. And I was like, man, he's... You know why I put him there? Because back in the day, we were talking about, we need to find a good black man. And then some of my criticism of us, myself included, we were overlooking a lot of good brothers. And William spoke up for... Well, he was like, we... I'm him. I'm sitting around all y 'all complaining. Here I am. I'm standing right here. I'm right here. And you looking over because you think you got to have a little edge, a little bad boy, a little this, a little that.

1:05:20Okay. Okay, great. But girlfriends, thank you for bringing, you know, this is our 25th anniversary. We know. 25th anniversary. It is not, I keep my heart open. Actually, Tracy, Persia, Jill, Golden, and Reggie, we desire to do it. But what it's important to me is that we be able to tell the story with the proper resources. There's a way we tell stories in our business. And it is time that we don't have to scratch and survive to tell this story. We have given 172 episodes, eight years, eight seasons of a lot of love and value. This story is four generations deep now. The 16-year-olds think I'm a rock star.

1:06:09I'm like, oh my God, I love it. But it's been global. So this is a ripe, valuable story. And so my conversation with God is I'm here. I'm ready to go. But it needs to be lined up with the right financial resources and support that is going to treat it as a global success. And we're talking about Girlfriends, the movie. I only want to do a movie. To be honest with you, I think that I have a fresh pen for the girlfriends. I think why girlfriends was so successful. I was living that life. I was 29 as Joan was 29. I was in the issues of the day. I think that's kind of my journalism aspect, my truth through fiction, because I was living it, or at least in proximity with my friends, I was able to understand what we were going through in real time.

1:07:12And I would love a fresh pen for a new Girlfriends of Tomorrow in a series. But for Girlfriends, the movie, I feel the audience deserves the ending. Those characters deserve— We deserve an ending, Mara. The characters deserve—I agree. I'm with you. And I'm with you. I'm with you. So I— So— Yeah, so I'm— Yeah, so— So make the checks right. Somebody got a check. Make the checks right. Make the checks right. And I love that you say that. Make the check right. Make the check right. Don't come nickel and diamond. This is worthy. It has an audience. You have an audience. It is not a favor. It is not a favor.

1:07:52It is real, beautiful business. And I think, and I'm excited for the day. I know it's coming. I'm going to let it show up. Oh my God, I've got to cry. Oh my God, sorry. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. But let it show up. Whoa, whoa. Yeah. So I'm now curious how it's going to show up. Oh, my God. It's going to show up. You guys, I'm having a hot flash. Okay. All right. That's the way to end the episode right there. Okay, okay, okay. Wow. I mean, look. Can you see it? Yes, I feel it. Oh, my God. It's coming. It's coming. And I think there's some prophecy here in this barn. Yes.

1:08:29I think maybe we're generating. Yes. I'm looking around at my team. My brother's here. I told you. He's here. He's here Yeah We just Oh my god He's here I feel like my brother's here Some signs Yeah Well It's wonderful We are excited I personally am excited This has been amazing This has been amazing for me It's been as amazing If not more amazing Than I thought I don't know about you I am just Craig Robinson Now I'm starting to get goosebumps I know No This has been a real treat Thank you so much For being with us Thank you so much For having me Thank you so much for everything you're doing because it is uplifting a whole lot of folks.

1:09:09You don't even know it. Thank you, Maura. Thank you so much. Thank you.

1:09:43opinions about the things that matter to all of us. Like what success looks like in different families with Glennon Doyle, why we all need to learn how to say no with Taraji P. Henson, and how failure can actually make you better in your career with our friend Kiki Palmer. We hope you'll all listen in every week. And did you know that you can hear the show on Amazon Music? Just open the Amazon Music app and search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson today.