Try Not to Laugh with Ayo Edebiri and Don Cheadle

21:53I think also that is a huge part of it where I'm like, well, everything is soup.

21:59Craig Robinson:Like everything has sort of been a bit strange. Changed, yeah. And we're like kind of figuring our way back to normal, what is wrong? You built your career in strange. Yeah, exactly. In many ways. In so many ways. I have come out of the strange, yeah. But you know, I've always been an early adopter and about whatever, you know, and I was doing a show on Showtime very early. Yes. You know, and I was like, oh, what's the streaming thing about? Let's try that. And I've just always been, I go where the material is. Yep. And, you know, so many writers flocked to TV because they were now, they were unable to do what they wanted to do in film because films started becoming just about tentpole stuff and up in a bunch of them.

22:44And, you know, those kinds of -

22:45Craig Robinson:Yeah, I didn't even mention your Marvel Ocean. It's all good. It's fine. It doesn't seem fine. You can do it now. Actually, they had that in the intro, and I was like, can you take that out? Oh, you took it out. Yeah, take that out. I was like, why didn't we talk about any of this? Because all of her stuff was so heady and lofty and incredible, and I was like, we're going to talk about me in a suit. I can't. No, what are you? Wait, that's really. I cannot with that. But no, no, no, no hate on the Marvel stuff. Thank you. Pays the bill allows you to do the theater stuff. Yo. I don't know. Yeah.

23:18Craig Robinson:Pays for the barn. That's like my dad's like big. I wish you didn't know so much about me, Michelle. Moving on. To quote Methuselah. No, look, I think that theater has never left my blood. It's never not been something I've wanted to get back to at some time in some way. And I think, you know, another thing that's playing on this is, unfortunately, the economics. you know, of what it takes to mount a production. Yep. And I feel, you know, kind of conflicted sometimes about the people that we need to put in these plays to actually get the budgets for the plays. And to recoup and... All of that.

24:06And there's jobbing actors that have been out here, you know, doing it for a long time that are like kind of getting squeezed out often when these kinds of casting opportunities happen. And so it cuts both ways for me a little bit. Because I love the opportunity and want to come here and do it. And I really, a big part of also wanting to do this play was really to, it's Catherine's play. It's Ayo's play. And I wanted to support her and support that journey. And, you know, I'm the smallest part in it. But I really wanted to come and like.

24:38Craig Robinson:Well, don't tell people that. Pop the kids up. He's in it a lot, y 'all. I'm in it a lot. They're just in it a lot more. but I do think that you know I understand that rub but I think that the way audiences think I mean we're trying to get people off their phones and into the theater and I feel like every time it happens also I don't know maybe that's my own sort of naivete or whatever but like when it happens when you experience it everybody's like so grateful for it absolutely Absolutely. It's like, wow. And even to the effect of like the type of work that's made, I feel like often the things that come out of or pierce through cultural conversation are often so strange or feature a cast where you don't really know that many people.

25:29Maybe you saw one person whose name you knew, but everybody else you don't know. You know, there's the weird things. There's the strange things. But then that doesn't end up being the takeaway from like a structural industry standpoint. Like the takeaway isn't like, oh, let's do more shows with unknown cast. It's like, we really like cooking stuff in Chicago. You're right. You know? Yeah, it's all in the rear view mirror, right? Yeah. And so, I don't know.

25:56Craig Robinson:But I think you guys lending your talents to theater is helping because it's going to put people in seats. It's going to, you know, reinvigorate things. Hopefully. I hope so, yeah. You know, at this point, I don't care why people come to the theater. I just want them to come. And if they come because it's like, oh, I know Don and Io. I get to see them up close. You guys don't have the schedules and the time to do theater always. So if you can get somebody hooked, then you guys go off. I mean, I like the way some productions are doing it. A production gets established with a star. And then you move other people in it.

26:35Craig Robinson:You move somebody else in it. And then people now know that this play on its own without the star power is something that we want to see. We want our kids to be in those seats. We want our communities to be back to that live kind of. That's true. I think it's a hook. It's an important hook. I don't think this is a forever hook. I think that the talent on Broadway is unbelievable. Some of the best talent in the business is right here in the city on the street. I mean, what it takes to show up every day. And I want to talk about that for a bit. I want our audience to understand what does it take to prepare?

27:20Craig Robinson:I mean, how did you guys approach this play, your roles? I'm going to tease Don again. I mean, when I saw you, I went with Barack. Dr. Barack and I had a date night's proof. And we were like, heck, Don got a dad bod? It's like, where did that? It's like the last time I saw you, you were cut up. I thought, what? You are, and I know. You are. That's the thing. That's the power of your acting that you look for people who have a dad bod on your dad. I was like, I expected when I saw you backstage. No, you didn't. My point was going, when I saw you backstage, I was almost like, oh, great. Okay, it's still in there.

28:01Craig Robinson:I was sitting there thinking, when did he gain all that weight? Acting. Acting. So you weren't wearing anything? You just turned into a dad vibe? Yeah, I just pushed my stomach out and got bow-lady. You don't have a dad. Was it the costume? It's true. But anyway, we digress. That was a long road to digress. I don't think this is a digression. I think we've now leaned into the theme of this podcast. This is really what it's about. Don. That's why we have you in the center. Yeah, you're in the hot seat. You're in the hot seat. No doubt. But talk about your preparation. I mean, I… Like, physically, I started doing vocal training, like, for the year before.

28:45Because also, I found myself losing my voice during awards season. It's just so…

28:51Craig Robinson:Because you were accepting so many speeches. Just because I don't know how to stop talking. And I was like, I know that I want to do… a play. And then I knew that it was going to be this play. And so I really wanted to get ready. And that required just a lot of learning about my instrument. Things that also, I think I was in practice with, but not consciously when I was doing standup on the regular. And then since doing a lot more TV and film, it's just a muscle you don't have to use. I don't have to reach the back of the room when I'm mic'd, you know, like, so that was like a, definitely a part of it.

29:30and I think when we knew that it was going to happen, we would talk about the script and sort of read it. I don't know when you like had started actively memorizing, but I just had tried to get it into my bones as much as possible. And then when I knew, I wanted to start earlier and then Bear ended up happening. So I would just read it on set if I didn't have like a crazy amount of lines. and I remember Lionel and Will Poulter. I would like pull them a lot because Eben also was working on his own stuff for dog day. So we would kind of be in little corners just like reading and then picking up our sides and being like, do we know our actual job for today?

30:14And yeah. And there's things where it's like Catherine has these long passages of things where that is like memorized or things that are… So that was the first stuff that I tried to tackle. the stuff where I'm like, well, this is language that's like in her bones. So it should be the first stuff that's in mine. And then -

30:34Craig Robinson:When you say it was memorized, are there parts of the play that are more improvised? Like when she recites something that she - When I recite something from memory, but like I'm Catherine. Yes, that's right. Acting is so weird. It's a trip. Yeah. It's like, what do you mean from memory? But it's her memory. Yeah. And her character. It's her memory. So I was like, well, that has to be something that - Right. And then that made me think, you can't change that every... What are things that I know? Yeah. Sorry, my long-winded answer. No, no, no. I mean, it's powerful. And because I'm thinking about these conversations with young people listening and young people that are interested in this kind of stuff because you guys all talked about...

31:14Craig Robinson:We all have our theater experience when we were young. I mean, I was in the Operetta Workshop. I mean, there's always, you know, I had an aunt that ran the community theater. I mean, we all have that piece of, well, I used to like improv when I was a little kid. Yeah, yeah, I did. You know, it's like theater training prepares you for a lot more than acting. I mean, I think it plays a role in my comfort level. Public speaking. In public speaking, in the way I interact with people. You know, to just adapt to situations. It's storytelling. I mean, what you get adept at or what you hopefully, you know, one of the biggest muscles you're flexing is just being a storyteller.

31:54And there's not any business that you can even name that doesn't have as one of its components. What's the story that I'm telling about this job? What's the story that I'm telling about this business? What's the story that this industry has? So it is applicable to so many different things. And it teaches you how to play well with others. And it teaches you that you're not the center of the universe. and you need to be malleable and there's give and take. And the strongest thing that you can be, I think, as a performer, as a listener. And be able to reflect back what you hear and be in conversation.

32:34And I think all of those skills are very important to just manage life. Yeah. I think also when I first realized that maybe this is something that I wanted to do, a big fear that I had, because both of my parents are not in the industry. And similarly, it's like I have a God mom who went to the first black AME church and we do a Christmas program. And she was in church basement.

33:01Craig Robinson:An opera singer very much was writing church plays, you know, that sort of thing. But that was pretty much our purview of the whole thing. It didn't go much further than that. I didn't even think I realized writing was a job you could have. I thought that there were actors and directors. Like, I didn't realize that people wrote the scripts that were different from the people who said them and, you know, and like Spike Lee. I didn't really know that. And I think I sometimes can forget because I'm like, I get sick of the sound of my own voice that it can be helpful to hear those more granular parts of things and the more like practical, tactical parts of things.

33:44And that is what I think I was able to latch on to when I was also like convincing my parents that I would be okay and that I could survive and that actually there's unions. And the unions have health insurance.

33:56Craig Robinson:Because that's what parents would, how you going to get health insurance? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you're going back here. I ain't paying for it. You better figure it out. They would not. But you're.

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38:42Craig Robinson:Ayo, your parents were pretty on board with you. Were you always kind of the quirky kid? Well, obviously in my memories, I'm like deeply normal. And then my cousins are always like, oh, you're so funny and weird. And I'm like, okay, well, how funny? Why so? Am I a joke to you? Yeah. Also, when I went back to my high school, did I tell you this? I went back and a bunch of my teachers came and said, hey. And everybody was acting so weird. But they were all like, this is crazy, huh? Like, this is really weird. Like, we never saw this for you. Not really. We thought you were going to live in the alley.

39:22Well. But yeah, I was a freak. But I guess I was surrounded by other, like, all my friends, we were just all weirdos. And my friend Shlee came actually and we just were remembering all these like insane things. But we were supporting each other in that. And I felt like our parents were really supportive of that. Because, you know, we were well-behaved and we made sure the grades were right. And so then, yeah, if you want to like learn how to play oboe or do improv. Shlee is really obsessed with Michael Jackson at the time.

39:57Craig Robinson:And so it was like, okay, if you want to make videos where she's Michael Jackson using like your dad's camcorder and you're figuring out how to edit or whatever, like fine. And so, yeah, when I told my parents that I didn't want to study education anymore and that I wanted to pursue this, I remember I took them to an IHOP. And I was like, this is going to be the worst moment of my life. Have some more syrup. Short stack on me, you know. And my dad looked at me. Two more sausages, please. Please. Keep them coming. Keep them coming. And my dad looked at me and he said, Honey, you know we were there when we raised you, right?

40:37We've seen you. And I was like, great. Those were the people. I wasn't taking the feng hua bus unsupervised at 10. It was my mom was taking me because she knew I had this passion. And they were taking me to see the urban Nutcracker. And to see Wicked when it came to Boston on tour. And, you know, my dad was always showing me amazing movies. And I found out actually when I graduated, which is like funny thinking about the show and the legacies that we know and we don't know. My dad wanted to study film. He went to Emerson and then his dad found out because this was like analog days. So, you know, he basically was like, yeah, yeah, everything's fine in America.

41:18And then a cousin called my grandfather and was like, he's not studying to be a lawyer. He's going to film school. And my grandfather came down and was like, cool, you can graduate.

41:27Craig Robinson:And then you have to like apply to law school after. Because your parents are immigrants? Yes. Both of them? Yes, both of them. My mom's from Barbados and my dad is from Nigeria. Yeah. So they were definitely, don't play. No. We sent you here to be a doctor. Responsibilities also. You know, they have siblings and they, you know, they had things to do and people to help and secure things for. And I think, yeah, it was a cool thing though, where I was like, oh, my dad isn't continuing that cycle. And he wants me to do well and, you know, make sure that everything is okay. But he also knows that, like, there's no point in, I don't know, this life if— If you don't follow your passions.

42:11Craig Robinson:Yeah. My father actually—I've said this before. He was the—my dad worked as a stationary fireman, blue-collar worker. But my dad was a really gifted artist. I mean, he sculpted, painted, got a scholarship to the Art Institute. We grew up in Chicago. But he didn't pursue those dreams because, you know, he had to raise a family. He had to, you know, so it's to understand that there was a generation of parents and grandparents who couldn't do this. It wasn't even it was there in their bones. that reminds me I was going to say my mom was also a frustrated artist I think you know and it was I had a very luckily a very similar you know sort of perspective from my parents who you know my parents drove me to CalArts and drove me home and there was never any question about what I wanted to do they were like oh are you going to pursue music or are you going to pursue acting because those are the two things that you've been passionate about and really want to do similarly you know you got to do your school work and get your grades and do all that stuff But they were like, there was no question I was going to college.

43:20That wasn't, but they were just like, you can pursue anything you want in college. You're going to college. But whatever you study, just really study it and be serious about it. And I can remember, you know, when I first started and it was hard and struggling and would be between jobs and calling my mom and saying, I don't know if I made the right choice. And she said, you've been talking about doing this since you were 10 years old. Don't stop now.

43:42Craig Robinson:See, that's just a beautiful thing, you know, To have parents who are rooting you on when it's time to tough. We have kids that are going to do non-traditional things. I have a kid that's interested in the business. She's a good writer, too. There's many a call where, because the business is crazy. And there are times when she wonders whether in these times when there's so much going on, should she be writing? Doing that, yeah. And the thing I tell her is like, there are going to be a lot of people who don't make it through these tough periods. They're just not situated. And especially when it comes to Black voices, Black writers, Black directors.

44:30Craig Robinson:Those of you who can stick in there and be there, we need them. We need you. We're going to need storytellers and people with different perspectives. You know, so I mean, probably your parents were ahead of the curve, both of you guys, in thinking that through and understanding the power of having real clear, decent people with good minds of color in this business. And thank God they did. I think that's also why it's important that the proof has been reimagined for a black family. First of all, so many of us are, you know, there's some people out there who don't want to believe that they're black families that are professors and clinical psychiatrists and who are artists and, you know, who are geniuses.

45:19Craig Robinson:And I think it's powerful to have this family not talk about the truth of their reality, but just living in it. You know, it's like we exist in so many different forms with so many different other challenges other than poverty or crime or whatever. Can you guys talk a bit about that? You know, going back to the David Auburn of it all and, you know, the early conversations that you had with Tommy about it. There was, there's a clear understanding that these themes, a lot of these themes are universal. but they do look different for different people. And what does legacy mean and what we get to leave behind?

46:05And often it is about something financial. And in this play, it does center around the house. And who has ownership of that? Who has ownership of dad's work? What do we do with dad's work? What does it mean, you know, to honor that or to exploit it? Or, you know, so I think that a lot of these themes work. But when we are talking about things like mental health, something that has traditionally not so much anymore. But I think, you know, has for a long time been like, we just don't talk about that. You know, that's just Uncle Ben. Especially in the black community. Uncle Ben just stays over there.

46:50He just has that. There's nothing wrong with you, boy. Yeah, you're fine.

46:52Craig Robinson:I know he's in the basement. Yeah, it's fine. But, you know. Now, don't be there at 4 o 'clock. It's just a little funny. It's just a little funny. He does something weird at 4 o 'clock. Just put the TV tray and shut the door. He's fine. And don't look him in the eye. Don't look Uncle Ben in the eye. I don't have an Uncle Ben, just for the record. But the Uncle Ben I'm imagining is bananas. But, yeah, so I think that for a black family, like I said, The things that we brought up to David as far as we have to use, we have to figure out the word that we're using when the police come. Because this Catherine may not get to be abusive to the police and us have another scene in the play.

47:38So it's like, what are the word choices? What happened? What actually happened? And what's also happening underneath it? what's happening is these two sisters are missing each other. So how do we make you know maintain that while also still allowing the play to be what it is. And we're not detouring off into a play about that. That's right. But we also can't act like that's not something that's real. That means something. In Chicago. That's right. In the 90s. Absolutely. Like so yeah that's been cool. I think to what you were saying also about this story and the now, it's so funny. It's like I didn't really consciously think about it until we started doing press.

48:33And I was thinking about that. And I'm like, what is that?

48:37Craig Robinson:That being the race aspect? I guess. And I was like, oh, it's because I'm a black woman all the time. I'm not thinking about why this is timely. I'm timely. I'm timeless. We are timeless. We exist. We've always existed. And we will continue to exist and persist. And so it's like, I don't know. I'm thinking about it always in everything I do. And also at the same time, I'm not. Not thinking about it. You're just living. Because I have to live my life. Because it's like, yeah, we are absolutely all political bodies. Like, right, sure. At the same time, I'm still, you know, I'm a human being. And David, in his writing of this, I mean, it's like one of my favorite things.

49:19And I think it's really hard to do as a writer. And he does so brilliantly.

49:23Craig Robinson:Every character is right. And every character is wrong. In the same scene. Yeah, what was she trying to get? This is the beauty of theater. I mean, yeah, you can do this in a movie, you know. But there is just something different about real people on stage in the audience. Can you talk about that? Because that's one thing we've never had We've never experienced What's it like sitting there? Sometimes it's very noisy In a good way Because people are like murmuring But that is exactly what was going on And what I found I think I was saying this to you guys Is that there was just a lot of guttural Oh I mean, people were feeling it because I think all, you know, there's so many themes and so many people who were seeing themselves or somebody they knew at some level, you know, that it felt like it was unexpected to the audience to get hit with some of this stuff.

50:31Craig Robinson:come in and it's, I'm like, I'm sure you as well, not, not funny haha, but like, they'll be like, hey, why didn't you warn me about like, X specific thing? Yeah. Right. Like, oh, like my bad. Like, why didn't you tell me it was two sisters? And I'm like, my fault. Right. Yeah. You know, yeah. To that, like that micro or as macro as, like you're saying, mental health or, you know, an ailing parent or. Yeah, a lot of that. A lot of that has come back. People going like, wow, I just went through this or I had to deal with this. And if that had been an all-black audience, they would have been talking to you all.

51:05Craig Robinson:Oh, the whole time. They'd be like, I don't, who do you think you are, girl? No, we've definitely had some of that. Yeah, we've had that. I think at one point, this one is going to make me laugh. There's a scene where I'm taking things out of a backpack. Yep. Yeah, this. This one that I just heard. It's also like, we have to, sometimes moments will happen and it's like, I just find myself like looking or I'm just like, I just need eyes right now. I just need eyes to stay here. And then I can go back and great. And a woman I just heard go, Oh, orange. And me and Finn were just like, we're here.

51:41We're here. We're here. We're still in this moment. We're here. You're Catherine. I'm Hal. I'm Hal. You're Hal. I'm Catherine. You're Hal. I'm Catherine. I'm Catherine. You're Hal. We're here. Great. And I'm like, okay,

51:52Craig Robinson:what does this mean also for the rest of the show? This is quite early on that an orange appears. And so we're like, What is this going to do? You just don't know. Somebody told me that they were sitting in front of two black, behind two black women. And when Karen came on for her second scene, they were like, oh, here she go. Uh-oh. Here she go. That's why I love us. Yes. I love us. And the beauty of this reimagined revival is that it's going to bring in new audiences. Yes. And I think that, you know, I mean, that brings life into it. It's a whole nother generation. It's a whole nother community of people who are going to be introduced to David Auburn and his writing and the complexities of a script and these sets of characters.

52:47Craig Robinson:And that's what you're feeling. And we have a lot of programs that we're supporting and fantastic that the play is supporting to do just that. To broaden access, to get students in at a price point that's not prohibitive. Because so much of it is prohibitive when you talk about these plays. They're so out of reach for some people. The amount of friends that I have that I met in college and were born and raised in New York and had never seen a Broadway show because there just wasn't access. They can't afford it. and they didn't go to the right school, be it public or private, that had a program that would take them for a day.

53:24You know, it's like kind of mind-boggling. So yeah, we just both, I think, really had the intention and were matched in that with our producers into trying to make accessibility a real tactical thing.

53:40Craig Robinson:I mean, how do you guys specifically influence that decision? Skin in the game Yeah We're giving money back Toward it So that we can Support it And having people match it And going out And fundraising around it Yeah And we were I mean I was like In a way that I think was newer for me Maybe you're a little more diverse But I was like I'm thinking of the people I know who have money Yeah exactly And I'm figuring out How to write an email Or like do a call And I think also Just meeting with our sincerity Like that this is something that we really want because I think we've both been beneficiaries of access.

54:20Absolutely. And so, some of those programs look like buyout nights that are going to happen. Reaching out to different schools and non-profits. And the New York

54:30Craig Robinson:public school system is just partnering with the Department of Education. You hear that, y 'all? So, you know, we're trying. And still pursuing some organizations for people who are just a barrier, just the price point's a barrier. Not just students, but just anyone who can get in there. Anyone, anyone.

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58:03Craig Robinson:The community of actors that are supporting each other. I mean, one thing I love hearing from you and Bridget, Don, is in your early days, that community of young actors, many of whom are still your friends, who you all, some have made it, some haven't. And what that meant to you and Io. I'm curious about whether that a similar community exists for you. You want to talk a little bit about that? I think we were very lucky. Bridget and I bumped into each other a lot in the early days. We were all trying to get work in LA. And when I graduated from CalArts, I graduated with some, you know, some guys who are my similar types.

58:52And we kind of all lived within a block or two of each other. All together, you know, roommates, you know, three sometimes, three in a place, two in a place. But we all kind of lived around each other. And when we would have auditions, we would just, everybody would go.

59:06Craig Robinson:Yeah. I'd be like, Bruce, I got an audition. Jeff, I got an audition. And we would bum rush the audition together. And I'd go in and then I'd, you know, I'd be coming out and go, wait, can you see my friend? And they're like, what? Wow. See him. And then he'd go in and he'd go, hey, one more of us. Can you see one more? I'm obsessed with this. And they would say to us, like, you know, if he gets the job, you don't get the job. I was like, yeah, but we get the check. Yeah. We're trying to keep this money in here. That's amazing. I love that. I got to borrow from him. He's got to borrow from me.

59:36That's amazing. We got to pull this bread. So one of us has to get it. Yeah. So we kind of had that mentality. And we were very fortunate to have that because it was not that way for most other people out there. It was dog-eat-dog. It was cutthroat. But something about having that kind of comfort also made it that when I think we walked in the room, we weren't like the sweaty, desperate, have to get this thing, which is so off-putting for a lot of, you know, that feels uncomfortable. You want to be around somebody that you're like, I want to be around this person. And so we were able to sort of that community kind of help each other feel that.

1:00:14And then it just kind of spread. All of us were out there trying to do the same thing. And so many of us know each other and knew each other from that time. And, you know, one of my closest friends from that time, his daughter is my goddaughter. And she lives with my kids. They all live together still, you know, in their 30s. And so it was just something that's amazing. I'm still very close with those guys. and I do think it was a rare and unfortunate thing. I feel very lucky that we had it.

1:00:42Craig Robinson:That doesn't sound like the business we here talk about. It is not. It is not. And now anymore, I mean, when people ask you, I'm sure when people ask me, they're like, I want to act, what can I do? I'm like, when I started, we went in a room and talked to human beings. Yeah. I mean, when I started, you went in a room and talked to human beings. And then like in the middle of that starting, it changed. It changed. So what is it now? You've got a camera in the corner and you're doing self-tapes. And sometimes you don't get the whole script. There were supposed to be all these rules that changed around it.

1:01:15Like you couldn't get six pages the night before to have to memorize and come in. And that kind of, I don't think anyone's obeying that stuff. No, it isn't. They're still doing it. So you're meant to have like a camera set up and a good mic and a backdrop that works. And a quiet place where you can shoot it. and you're expected to, without benefit of notes, without benefit of any insight from anyone who's created this, figure out. You're directing yourself or your friends are directing you. Yeah. You're reading with whoever's available. You are maybe, like if you're not borrowing space from a friend, they popped up in LA.

1:01:48I don't know if they still exist, but it's psychotic. Rooms that you would pay for. Oh yeah, of course.

1:01:53Craig Robinson:So it's like you're paying to audition. For the right to not get a gig. To not get a gig. You know, it's a lot. Which is just making it a more exclusive experience. A thousand percent. Completely. So the business is changing every day. And now with this insane merger that might happen, it's like there's going to be fewer and fewer places to work. Yeah. We don't, we don't, I think we don't know. So when people ask me what they can do to become an actor, I say, do anything else. And if that's going to discourage you, then maybe you shouldn't do it. You know, because it's going to be a slog. unless you get super, super lucky or just undeniable.

1:02:32So I say work. Yeah, just work. Read plays, write, write, write. You know, you don't have to just work when you get a job. You can be working on being a better actor, a better writer on your own all the time. You have an iPhone, you can make a movie. You can, you know. And now there's no barrier to upload it. Me and my friends or my cohort, I guess that I think about, a lot of us did come up generating our own material. When I think about Rachel Sennett, when I think about Quinto, and like, you know, that we… Issa Rae. Yeah. We were… I mean, we were following them and Donald and people, you know, where it's like, okay, right, yeah, you make sketches and you post them online or you tweet or, you know, you do funny Instagram posts.

1:03:18You make videos. Like, you do these things. At the same time, though, those are also the people with, like, Rachel and I would ride the train and we would swap sets and give each other notes on our sets, you know? And I would go to Quinta and she'd be like, cool, I went to this. You know, I did sets here, here, and here. Zach went here, here, and here. These rooms are good for this. These rooms are good for that. Like we were doing work in the real world as well as online. And I think exchanging information with each other as well. Not wanting to gatekeep from each other. Because to what you're saying also, like I really was resonating with that.

1:03:55Like, oh, the people that I was friends with and that I connected with and I still feel connected to, I don't think ever felt like that threat of like, I have to be the only one in the room. You know, like, I really do believe—and there's more friends that I just will not name drop, but who I love very dearly. But where it's like, we all knew that there was space for each other.

1:04:16Craig Robinson:Especially amongst, like, black women. I remember like having a conversation and then like in the name drop but like with Z-UA at a job when she was writing and I was still assisting and she was like yeah well that's like obviously like a trick that they want to play on us to cut each other out. There's space for all of us. And if there isn't then we make space for each other. Duh. There you go. And I felt like I was like such a little baby writer and I was like thank God. You know like there's people like that good and Janelle James was at that same job and it was the same thing. She was like yeah they're not gonna no way.

1:04:47you think they're gonna get us

1:04:49Craig Robinson:no no we stay in it and that is I think a real skill that endurance that you know fortitude that you have to learn and that's pretty invaluable I think just as much as talent sometimes even more I'm sure you can think of people I can who are I go this was the most talented person that I ever knew this person's great can't bust a grape you know and when the going gets tough they they back out Which is not to say that that isn't, you know, valid. And that your feelings can get hurt. Days can be hard and long and confusing. And you can, I mean, it's… And careers are… There are highs and lows. There's highs and lows.

1:05:33And it's a weird thing also when it's like your passion… And especially if it's connected to creativity. But not just that. But when your passion becomes your vocation. When it becomes capital. You know, it's trippy. It's trippy. It's really trippy. And so being able to find ways to navigate that, withstand that, have people that you can talk to. Even, I mean, we had a day where I lied to you.

1:05:58Craig Robinson:It was just like, help. Do you remember that? In rehearsal. You were like, oh, yeah. That's it. That's the job. Somebody's feel bad. And I was like, oh, okay. But there's going to be something else. Hey, yeah. You'll get over it. Yeah. And, you know, I guess I did because I'm here. Well, having you two, the dynamic duo in this play, it's really the magic. But the entire cast is magic. And we are just grateful that you guys made the decision to, you know, dip your toe back into the theater lane. Because it absolutely matters for all of the reasons that we talked about. before we close what's next is the question what's next for you I owe you or you may have you're what next we're both here till July so next is so let's just what is it now April next is May July 19th July 19th yeah okay and then there there are things there are things that are supposed to happen afterwards and you know do you say that because it's like it could happen, it might not.

1:07:14I say that because some could happen, some might not. Some are definitely happening, but I don't know that I want to happen with them. So, you know. You're so funny. You know, it's like, I don't, it's...

1:07:24Craig Robinson:Yeah, that's real. It's real. Because, you know, the one thing... Well, you've also earned the right. Well, look, I think anyone at any time can say what they want to do with their time and what is valuable for them to do with their time. Because it's the one thing, I don't care how much they pay you, you can't buy. You can't get it back. And you don't want to be in a situation where you look back and go, wow, I just wasted eight months of my time or six months of my time. Especially when I'm a little half dead. Yeah, you're old. You're an old man. I'm almost out of here. You got to pick and choose wisely.

1:08:00Correct. You don't want to mess that up.

1:08:03Craig Robinson:I forgot. Yeah, you forgot. I forgot. You were old. I'm sorry. I was going to bring you back to the theme. He's such a good actor. He was making me think he was young. Should I sit up like to get him? Give him a gun. Show the guns again. Come on. We're fine. We're fine. There you go. But yeah, there's definitely, and surprisingly, more than there have ever been for me, things lined up for years that if I wanted to actually push go on, that I know I would be booked for a long, long time. So I'm trying to be strategic and mindful and thoughtful about how I really want to do this. And then there's life.

1:08:46Craig Robinson:That's what I'm saying. We are predisposed as actors, you know, to have that engine of like, I got to eat. I got to eat, eat, eat, eat. It's not going to be here. I'm unemployed again. Well, if I don't take this job, there's never going to be another job. It's easy to get in that, you know, hamster wheel mindset, even though we've done it for so long. and you feel like that's, I can't logically support that that's true, but it could be. Yeah. You know, are they going to find out? Are they going to realize that, oh no, I was snowing in this whole time? You're actually a bum. Yeah, you're never getting another job.

1:09:18So it's… All the Hollywood producer Cheeto, he's a bum. He's a bum. He's a bum. Get him out of here. Kick-off, Cheeto. He's been snowing us for years. Thousands of them. He's old, I tell you. He's old. He's old. So old. How old is he? Older than the sun, that cheater. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:09:39Craig Robinson:That pumping on a cigar. What? He's so talented, my friend. Thank you. So, yeah, we'll see. We'll see. One of the six jobs that's coming up, or two, I'll probably do. Yeah. But I won't talk about them right now. Okay. Keep a secret. We'll have you back. Okay, yeah. We'll talk about them when I'm back. Yeah. What about you, little missy? What about me? I am excited to finish this play. and then I also have a— Well, I'm the opposite, I guess. I have some time free for the first time on the acting side in a really long time because Bear, as Jamie Lee Gertz has announced, Bear will be ending. Bear's over.

1:10:16Craig Robinson:And that's really cool and scary and exciting. And yeah, and then I'm writing again and I'm working on a few things. Some have been announced. Some have not. I'm not going to do it. I won't announce anything. Don't. You're in secret keeping mode Don't ruffle up me Breaking news on IMO But yeah I'm excited about that And excited to kind of I just Turned 30 Now you're old Now I'm They've kicked me out of young Hollywood So ferociously I'm in old Hollywood now But It's an interesting thing like time I think the just past few years have I really and like friends who are older than me and not even by that much who literally I would be like 28 and they would be like 31 they'd be like be careful you know be careful about your time be careful about your energy and I'd be like I don't believe you it's endless I have all the energy in the world and then it's like oh my god there's my body and it's tired and I do need to rest and I also do need to like recuperate in order to generate like it maybe the reserve was a lot deeper because it was just coming from a place of all this expression that it had and felt like I was able to do for so long.

1:11:37And there's youth. And there's three. Oh my God. The folly of it. because you're just young. You got energy. The folly of it. I mean,

1:11:44Craig Robinson:it's like, now when I stand up, I have to stretch like my dog Sunny. Okay. Because you just can't get up and walk right away. So what do we do if I also have to stretch? That means you need to take a break. Great. Okay. So then maybe I do that. And maybe some supplements. Well, yeah. I know for sure. Yeah. I need you to leave me in more stretches. Yes, yes. Oh, stretches. He's limber. Well, yes. He's limber. We believe in— That's my biggest thing. Yen yoga. He's a stretcher. Big stretcher. Do you like morning and night, that type of vibe? Or do you— I need to do more of it, but I at least do it— At least once a day.

1:12:15Craig Robinson:—like a 90-minute session once a week. That's amazing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Great. So that's good. That's something for me to log and maybe not do for a minute, but I'll remember it. Right, right. You don't have to do it for 90 minutes. No. But this has been making me need to be more physical in a way that's really great. You got to like the eight shows a week thing. It's like you really can't take it for granted. It's a workout. Yeah. I mean, that's like a whole other podcast. I'm secretly very woo-woo. And the things that we're talking just about like life and the things that I've learned in the past few years.

1:12:47I've become really interested in our bodies as like, yeah, as just like instruments. and the things that we are maybe not as connected to in like Western society that like, that there's, I don't know, that there's other civilizations that have been existing for thousands of years.

1:13:08Craig Robinson:For millennia. You know? And my father is a cancer survivor. And when he was sick, he got really into like Eastern medicine. And really, genuinely, that's like, he's the same. And now it's like, we both are like, so like, what's going on with your acupuncturist? And he is somebody who like, I think that was definitely a jolt for him. And I had one image of him, you know, of my childhood. And now he's the one who's like going on jogs and doing his little Peloton. And he does yoga and all these amazing things. And I really am like, wow, you're a lighter, happier person than maybe who I grew up with.

1:13:50Partly because I think you're like in communication with your body in a way that you were not because you just didn't do that. Yeah, you didn't do that. It wasn't a part of our situation. A man, a black man, an African man doing a downward dog. No, get out of my face with that. What's he doing?

1:14:08Craig Robinson:Did you lose something dead under that table? Can I help you find your keys? Did you drop something? Because you were not. You didn't mean to be on the floor. Black people sometimes don't even like to be on the floor. Why would I get on the floor? Why would I get on the floor? Why would I do that? I didn't put these clothes on to get on the floor. That's exactly right. I actually really, like the idea, I'll never forget moving to LA and meeting people where they're like, are you grounding? And I'm like, am I a 13-year-old? What are you talking about? And they're like, no. Take your shoes off and feel the earth.

1:14:36Craig Robinson:I'm like, I'm good. I'm on it. I was like, you might as well ask me to eat a bug. Okay, you guys have a call back. Well done, well done. That means the bug has to stay in now. Yes, you guys, I know that was wrong. He's like, I got a title. Yeah, you're not cutting the money. Don't worry. I'm so buggy right now. I'm so full of bugs. I'm so full of bugs. Oh, my God. My God. Well, anyway, you two. It's been a delight. I'm proud of you, as always. Love you to death. Loving you so completely. This role is you. Yeah, you got a little Catherine in you. I remember that. Our first meeting. I was thinking about it.

1:15:18I was thinking about it.

1:15:19Craig Robinson:You know, I'm sure Ayo was like, because we were like, this young girl, she's got a thing. So we just reached out. It's like, girl, what's she up to? Nothing. And she came over to the vineyard. I'm sure you were wondering, OK, I'm here. And she sat down and she was so like, yeah. And Barack and I were like, yeah, we know that that that girl. Yeah, we know a lot. That quirky, weird, genius, curiosity, fire, all of that, you know. Fearlessness, all of that is what's keeping you going and what is going to fuel you for many, many years to come so that you are an old person like me and Don on the other side of this table.

1:16:10Craig Robinson:Well, I don't know if I will ever be as fortunate to get this old. No, you won't. You won't. Especially if you keep bringing it up like that. You ain't gonna make it past July. I like that. I like that. That's specialism. You're gonna kick it at the end of the run. I like that. Of course. That affects me. I'm not gonna kick you off before I get mine. You started. That was genuinely also like maybe the most exciting 36 hours of my life. Because that was also the day after I threw a first pitch. Oh, you had a lot going on. Well, that's crazy. First pitch. Did we have lunch? Did we feed you? Did we eat and get?

1:16:46Craig Robinson:It was really good. It was really good. It was a really beautiful day. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's good to see you blowing up. You have earned every bit of it. I want to make sure that our audience goes to see Proof and on Broadway until July 19th. It is an amazing production. And to all the young people who are going to benefit from this accessibility program, We want to hear from you. Young folks who get to see proof, want to hear about those conversations that people are having after the show. As you can see here, you will go in. If you go with the family member, you're all going to be talking for a couple of weeks about it.

1:17:28Craig Robinson:One of my friends came with, actually, he came with his mom and dad the night that you guys were there. And he was like, they were already talking about the play at intermission and then they realized that the Obamas were there. And he was like, And so now it's like connected forever. Yeah. And you never know. We might be there at any moment in time. Let's go. We might drop by. Beautiful. Because I love Broadway. Yeah, exactly. So you never know. There's some really good shows on now. Of course. They're coming with notes. Yeah, obviously. Perfect. It's like for sure. For sure. But there are no notes.

1:18:02Craig Robinson:You guys have done it up. Thank you. Congratulations. Thanks for being here. Love you guys. Love you guys.

1:18:14Thank you.