You Need to Fight for Friendship with Julia Louis Dreyfus

0:00Did you know the average bottle of water contains 240 ,000 tiny particles of plastic? And with recent research finding microplastics in our bodies and our blood, it's time to pass on plastic and get a water filter that actually works. Say goodbye to microplastics in your family's drinking water with LifeStraw Home. It's the only water dispenser that filters over 30 contaminants, including bacteria, PFAS, and microplastics, while making your water taste better. And it has a stylish modern design that you'll want to show off on your counter or your fridge. I know we do. And because it holds 18 cups, you can fill cups, water bottles, and more without needing to refill all the time.

0:51We have a really active family, and water is a big part of our recovery. Knowing we could be exposing ourselves to microplastics is troubling, and it's also disheartening. That's why we take steps with eating cleaner, composting, and local sourcing to live a healthy lifestyle. Although we live near a good water source, we use our LifeStraw Home water filter all the time. Cooking, refilling bottles as we talked about, and everyday hydration. It really makes a difference. In addition, for every product sold, a child in need receives a year of safe water. More than 11 million have to date. Use code HIGHERGROUND for 25 % off of your first purchase of a Lifestraw home product at lifestraw.com.

1:41And say goodbye to microplastics forever. This stage in life for me, for me personally, is the first time that I've been completely free. Yeah, there's a real release. where every choice that I make in my life is not about my husband, not about his career, not about what my kids need or where they're going. It's totally about me.

2:11This episode is brought to you by Pine Salt and Chase Home Lending. Hey, you. Hi, Craig Robinson. How's it going? It's going well, Mish. How you doing? I'm doing pretty good. I'm digging that aqua. This is one of my favorite pieces. Yeah, yeah. It looks like, you know, you'd wear that pulling up in some hotshot ride or something. Yeah, well, I've been tooling around in my Rivian R1S here in L.A. And, well, it's actually not mine. Rivian has been kind enough to gift us with vehicles. But when I'm here, I've driven a loner that I'm just falling in love with it every single time I get in it. But listen, we've had a great conversation about friendship.

3:04Oh, yeah, today. Today we're going to talk about... But today we're going to talk about friendships as we age. Ah, okay. And I was finding it hard when I was sort of researching this topic and thinking about it. being a guy in a committed relationship, I never thought that when you're in a committed relationship, there's the potential of still being lonely. Because of course, I still have little kids at home, so I'm running around chasing them. But it's a phenomenon. Yeah. And I think it's particularly true with women. Maybe it's the nature of men and women and how they, you know, sort of maneuver in the world.

3:48But I have a number of female friends in relationships who, you know, but for their outside friendships would perhaps feel lonely within their relationships. And I don't want to generalize, but men's habits are different. Sometimes they don't want to chit-chat. They don't want to catch up. So I have a lot of friends who, you know, they love their partners, but they find their friendships and relationships outside of that unit. But I don't know if you experienced that among your friends. You know, I think what I perceive and what's actually happening now is making me think there is a gap there.

4:31Because I'm like a guy. I'm the kind of guy who is assuming everything is going fine until somebody says, oh, you know what, my wife and I are getting divorced, or my wife's telling me she's lonely, and I don't know what to do. I haven't had that happen. But I can - People can be lonely inside of very healthy relationships. If you don't share the same hobbies in common, if you have different temperaments, even different life patterns. and throughout my life, especially now that I'm getting older, I work very hard to maintain my relationships with my friends, whether we live in the same city or not.

5:17Maybe living in the White House and being in a position that was pretty isolating, right? Not too many people can walk up to my door and knock on it and say, just dropping by for a cup of tea, right? So as a result, people couldn't have our phone numbers. They couldn't for security reasons. So there was a wall between me and my friends that was real. And as a result, I got into the habit of making sure that I was continuously reaching out, finding ways to bring people in, planning events, planning trips with my friends, because absent me doing that work, it was just really hard for a friend to call me over those eight years and say, hey girl, want to go to the movies or you want to go on a trip with me?

6:09But I found that that habit has served me well now that I'm in my 60s and I can even foresee how beneficial that is as I get even older because my friends and I, we just have a routine of how we connect, no matter where we are in the world. We have habits, routines, rituals, you know, that we do amongst ourselves. And even with our daughters as they get older, with our kids as they get older, that has helped us sustain our relationships. But a lot of people haven't invested that kind of time. Yeah, and I've all, I mean, you're so good at keeping your friendships close and inviting people in. Well, we're going to talk a lot about a relatable relationship, friendship questions today.

7:05And we've got a fantastic guest. We do. We have both been excited about this. I think anybody with a brain would be excited about our next guest. And I'm talking about Julia Louis-Dreyfus And she's an Emmy Award winning actress and comedian known for her roles in Veep and Seinfeld, of course. But Julia is currently hosting a popular podcast called Wiser Than Me. And I'm excited to hear about that, too. But I have a varied number of questions that we might get off topic, but we'll have to rein it back in. Because you're a really fangirl in here. I'm really excited about that. So without any further ado, Julia, come join us.

7:58Oh, there she is. Hey. So happy you could be here. I'm so happy to be here. I am so delighted to be here. And I'm sure you don't remember this, Michelle, but I went to a SoulCycle class with you. Oh, my gosh. I did. I went through my deep SoulCycle phase. You did. You were kind of an addict. I was. I was. Yeah. Yeah. And we went right around the White House. That's right. So how did you find your SoulCycle? And had you been doing SoulCycle? No, I had never done it before. I do other things to work out, but I hadn't done SoulCycle. Yeah. Didn't care for it. Hey. But I was happy to try it. It's an acquired taste.

8:40It is, in fact. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I think she's the only one in our family who liked doing it. Yeah, I went through. I'm like that with activities. activities. It's like potato chips. I can't just eat one. Once I link into something, I'm all in. Do you like to hike? I do, but I don't hike as much as I did just like I don't do soul cycle as much. I've had to vary as I've gotten older my workouts because they mess up the body in certain ways. You really have to differentiate. You've got to diversify. So tell us about Wiser Than Me. Are you having fun? Yeah, it's really, you know, the genesis of it was that I saw this movie, this documentary with Jane Fonda about her life.

9:29Oh, yeah. You guys probably saw that. I saw that one, yeah. And I was so struck by the breadth of her life, the profundity of she'd done so many different things. And it got me thinking about, wow, there's so many women out there that are older. Yeah. I mean, at the time she was 85, I believe, that are older, that have had these extraordinary lives, and we're not hearing from them. That's right. So I wanted, so I was like, I need to, oh, I've got to find a podcast that talks to those women. Of course, there wasn't one. So then I just started to do it. And it's really taken off. So it's nice. And it's an opportunity for, talk about friendships.

10:05It's an opportunity. I've made some real friends doing this, including Jane, by the way. So we're doing a lot of sort of political environmental activism together now as a result of this, which is great. Yeah, I think the concept is beautiful and it's necessary. We've talked about this a lot, how women, as we age, we get pushed out of the picture. Yeah, it's incredible. Right when we're, you know, as you know, now that I'm 60, this is really the first time in my life where I feel completely me and I can absolutely embrace my wisdom. Yes. I mean, because I think we as women, we spend most of our lives saying, well, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

10:50We qualify everything. And we apologize. We apologize. We don't want to put our opinions on the table because maybe we're wrong. We're always hedging, you know, because in the back of our minds, we weren't raised with the certainty of maleness that, you know, kind of the confidence that young men in their 30s have, which they haven't earned. They just have it. You know, we don't start feeling that and owning that until our 50s and 60s at a time when we start to be treated as invisible in society. And the notion that you are capturing that wisdom in a systematic way is powerful. Yeah, I think it's critical for both, for the culture generally.

11:36It's not just for women, it's for men. Frankly, we're just missing an opportunity. I mean, these women are, I think of them as being on the front lines of life, and they can report back to us what they've seen and what we should or should not be doing. And as people, not as just as female people, but as people. So I am thrilled to do it. It's a lot of work because I want to come to the table really well-versed in what they've done and who they are. And we're talking to scientists and novelists and, you know, everybody. And I'm learning a lot as I go. Yeah. This may be an unfair question. what's one of the most fascinating things you've learned in this process from one of these women or a couple of things that you would say have stuck with you?

12:36No is a complete answer is something that stayed with me. I'm sure you've heard that before, but it sure is a meaningful sentence. and particularly as women, we are sort of, our culture indoctrinates us to put a caveat onto a no. I know I should, but I can't, you know, all of that kind of stuff. Yeah, women, we have so many landmines and barriers and don'ts and limitations. It's, you know, I mean, Craig, you're the guy at the table, But I think it's important for all guys listening, especially men raising daughters, to realize that difference. And that thing that inadvertently, as you are loving and raising these beautiful girls, there are so many rules that make us small.

13:34Baked in without our knowing it. Yeah. And I wish I could, I mean, well, I remember people saying, oh, well, she's a female doctor. Mm-hmm. As opposed to just, she's a doctor. This is good. We have to remember this for the next time you're here to talk about that topic. But we're here to talk about friendship and loneliness as older adults. As we get older in life. As we get older in life. And we have a really good question today talking about sort of being an adult and having this very vibrant friend life that all of a sudden is not there anymore. And I found this topic really interesting. And I think now's a good time to have Natalie, our producer, read the question.

14:29And then we can dive in. Yeah. Natalie.

14:40This episode of IMO is sponsored by Chase Home Lending, committed to supporting you all the way home with smart digital home buying tools and resources. Chase Home Lending is dedicated to helping individuals and families achieve their dream of home ownership. They offer expert guidance throughout the home buying journey, helping customers navigate the process with confidence. This brings me back to a time when we grew up living upstairs from my aunt in a two-family home that she owned and we rented. And it was a wonderful time, but being a renter, we had to be extremely careful of what we did.

15:20For example, we had to be quiet at a certain time. We couldn't play on the front lawn. My sister couldn't have a dog. and we didn't realize the importance of being a homeowner until we got late in life. We always would talk to our dad about why we don't own a home and he talked about being house poor. Little did we know that home ownership was a great way to build equity. My sister and I ended up buying our own homes later in life and we used that to help pay for our kids' college, and that is a way where home ownership can lead to future success. Chase Home Lending offers personalized support, expert knowledge, and access to valuable resources, helping home buyers navigate the complexities of getting a mortgage.

16:13Their guidance ensures buyers find a financial fit and make informed decisions. Visit chase.com slash start to see how Chase can support your home ownership journey. Member FDIC, equal housing opportunity. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non-invasive colon cancer screening test. As it stands, colon cancer is on the rise in people under 50, which is why the American Cancer Society recommends that if you're at average risk, you begin screening at 45. Even if you live a healthy lifestyle and don't have symptoms, no one is at low risk for colon cancer. We want to make sure our listeners know that colon cancer can be treatable in 9 out of 10 people.

17:03But the key here is that it has to be caught early. With the Cologuard test, you can take control of your colon cancer screening through a prescription-based test with none of the prep that's required of a colonoscopy. Not only is the Cologuard test effective for colon cancer screening, but it can even detect pre-cancer. And in addition to its convenience, the Cologuard test is also affordable. Most insured patients find they pay nothing out of pocket. With zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door, don't let your health take a backseat. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Coligard test.

17:55You can also request a Coligard prescription today at coligard.com slash podcast. The Coligard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a Coligard test if you have adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Coligard test is not a replacement for colonoscopy in high-risk patients. Coligard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. KolaGuard is available by prescription only.

18:47We're so thrilled that PineSol is a partner of IMO. PineSol has been connected to our family forever. To this day, whenever my sister and I catch the scent of PineSol, we automatically feel better about life. The smell of PineSol has always taken us back to our childhood home. It is amazing how smells can transport you to a place or a moment in time. Another smell that takes me back is cherry blossoms, which always remind me of visiting Michelle in D.C. That's why I'm excited for Pine Sol's newest scent, Cherry Blossom. The cleaning power you know and love from Pine Sol is available in a new scent this spring, Cherry Blossom, which is light and fresh and leaves a lasting floral scent while eliminating tough dirt, grease, and grime.

19:39You can use Pine Sol Cherry Blossom Multi-Surface Cleaner to help deodorize and clean hard, non-porous surfaces, including floors, sinks, counters, stoves, bathtubs, shower stalls, tile, and more. Visit pinesol.com to find where to shop Pine Sol Multi-Surface Cleaner in the new Fresh Cherry Blossom scent.

20:09Hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is Andrea, and I'm 40 years old. My mom, Sharon, is 68 years old and has always had a meaningful and wide circle of friends. Friends from high school and college and friends she made while she and my dad raised my sister and me. She also had an extensive social network through my dad's colleagues. He was a college professor at a university in Texas, and the campus brought them many close friendships, friends they'd shared dinner parties with, joined on weekend trips, and seen nearly every morning for the run club on campus. My mom was also fortunate to be close with her own co-workers at her job in the college admissions office.

20:48But a little over a year ago, my dad retired, and they moved back to North Carolina, where they both grew up. My sister and I stayed in Texas, and I think I saw this coming, but when I talked to my mom recently, she admitted she felt like she'd lost nearly every friend she'd ever made. I know she'd already experienced some strain on her friendships in Texas, whether due to retirements or illness or divorce, but this big move means all the social structures that once supported her friendships have vanished, and with them, her connection to her cherished communities. So my question is, how can my mom reframe her thinking around friendship during this pretty radically new chapter in her own life?

21:36Whether that be gaining enthusiasm for making new friends in North Carolina or maintaining connections to her old friends without the help of built-in community and networks. As her daughter, I am especially concerned with helping her to answer this question because of a fear she revealed to me that I really hadn't seem coming. She told me she's actually feeling a brand new resistance to connecting with people because she knows that eventually more life change will just lead to more friendship loss. How can I help my mom in her new feelings of loneliness and maybe reinvigorate her desire to make new friends in this brand new stage of life?

22:17Thanks for your thoughts, Andrea. There's a lot to unpack in that question. And can I dive in? Please, please. I mean, there is so much going on there. She's obviously, this is a woman who wrote that, right? Her daughter. Right. She is obviously a very devoted daughter. So to begin with, it brings up the idea of getting older and starting to parent your own parents. Oh, yes. which I've certainly been through and going through, and I know you guys have as well. And that's an amazing flipperoo that you never anticipate when you're younger. It doesn't even occur to you that all of a sudden she's worried about her mom making friends.

23:03Isn't it usually your mom's worried about you making friends? So that's an incredible thing. But I see it as very surmountable. You know, we recently lost our home in this horrible LA fire. And so our community is gone. Yeah. Gone. Yeah. Where we raised our children. Yeah. And so I'm sort of wrestling with the same thing. Yeah. And what I'm finding is that if the focus is not necessarily meeting a friend, which has kind of a, I'm not saying it's a bad focus. But it's a different stressor. It feels a little oppressive, right? Yeah. It's like you're putting pressure on yourself. And maybe if the focus is, and this is what I'm trying to do, getting involved in community where you are.

24:01You will find your people. That's what I think. Certainly, that's what I'm trying to do as we kind of work our way through this moment. And my own parents recently went through the same thing that this woman's parents went through. That is to say, they moved into a new community. And it was hard for them. But particularly my mom became involved in this garden community. And I mean, there's something about taking action that can open up doors, I think. You're absolutely right. One of the other things I hear in this question is, and that makes me kind of sad, but something to tie into is that the listener's mother has expressed a fear and a hesitation around the possibility of building new community because of the potential for loss.

25:06And I think that's worth her daughter, their family trying to unpack a little bit, right? I agree. Because it is completely right that building community is the focus. But if you're afraid of that, if the very thought of, you know, doing that work and taking that kind of action makes you afraid because you could lose something. Yes. Oh, it's like, well, then you could be stuck. Yeah. And, you know, it's part of friendship is taking that risk of loss. And it doesn't change because we're older. In fact, that's always the case with friendship. It's always the case with friendship. But I think specific to aging, you will lose folks.

25:53Exactly. You are going to lose them. Naturally. That's just— That's a part of it. It's a part of it. And it stinks. I know. And I'm not quite there yet. But we're headed there, God willing, in a weird way. Yeah, yeah. Maybe doing a deep dive into that fear is probably worth it for her mom to do. I had to, probably in my position as first lady, just as an object point for the listening mother, I mean, one could have argued that there was every reason in the world for me in that position, me and my husband to be afraid of making new friends, right? Yeah, very good point. Yeah. You sort of think about it.

26:38And in fact, I know one of the things that Craig said when Barack ran and won, you may want to share that was... No new friends. Right. You said don't make new friends? I said that to Misha and Barack. I was like, watch out. And I couldn't have been more wrong. Right. Oh, but that's fascinating. Yes. Yeah, because the automatic feeling, which would be natural, is you got to watch who you associate with in this position. And you don't know what their intentions are. Precisely. So I understood the sentiment of the warning, and it's my big brother. And we came from an already big established community, right?

27:20So it wasn't like we were going into this thing just solo. Without a support, yeah. But the difference for me was that I still had little kids, right? I mean, my girls were 10 and 7 moving into a new neighborhood, a new community. And my whole goal was to normalize their experience, to not make them feel like these odd little kids with secret service that were outsiders, which meant that I couldn't. I didn't have the luxury of saying no new friends, right? Because when you're raising your kids, you have to be a part of a bigger community that they're in. Yeah, otherwise you're screwed. Otherwise, you're screwed.

27:59It was exactly the way it was. So that push, that necessity was the absolute best thing. Leaning into that fear, into that caution, it was the best thing that I did for myself and for my family. And my point to the listener that I learned is that it was absolutely worth it. And it was probably a very scary experience because we not only faced the risk of loss, disappointment, but we could have met people who were menace no good, who we couldn't trust, who, you know, gossiped about us, who, you know, sold stories. There were many things that could have gone wrong. But the truth is, is that most people are really good folks.

28:44You know, even when you're in a high-powered position, most people are open to the new. And I would say, too, in that circumstance, you're there. You're sort of looking at the community where your children are going to school. You need to get to know these parents as a parent. You must. And so your goal is not necessarily going in to make friends. Your goal is to understand where they are. And then out of that comes relationships that you could count on. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty interesting, actually. It's like fame on steroids. Exactly. It really is. Yeah. Because I've had that on a much smaller scale.

29:35When you're a famous person, it's weird getting out there sometimes. And people approach you and you're not sure what their intentions are about. So if there's a way to, I don't know what, through an action, through a community, where there's sort of common ground as there was at school, for example. I mean, I don't know how your husband did it. Well, he was dragged into it along with me because he also had the barrier of no time, right? I mean, but in the face of that, because of my focus and determination and his interest, it was like, no, you got to go to parent-teacher conference. And he wanted to go.

30:18Yeah. It's like, even if you don't have to go, you have to go. Right. You know, you have to get the school normalized to you being the type of engaged parent that you were before election night. That's right. And you were the father that went to parent-teacher conference. Right. You were the father that would coach your girl's basketball game. Right. League. And he did. I know he did. But all of this is to say to our listener, for her mother, it's worth the risk. People will be waiting out there with open arms. People are kinder, even though it doesn't feel that way these days. I've been in our country, and I've been in every angle of it, and it doesn't change overnight.