The UI Was the Moat: Mirko Gropp, GM of Digital, Data and Technology at The Living Company

0:00Georgie Healy: You're listening to a day one dot FM show. Thursdays are always like 3 a.m. in the clock when the lights go on. Everybody is just kind of on the last meters and wants to go home. AI is now everywhere. Started with Agent Force, now Headless that was announced at TDX. And it's a massive shift, right? So, I mean, that's big for software companies. So that was normally your mode, right? Like UI. And I have still vendors in the stack that would not even give us an API, right? To call and see where things are at. I can build stuff more easily, right? Like with Claude Code and all the energetic coding.

0:32I can build something in three months that would have taken me a year, right? And I do it with two people and they never touch the code. So that's very exciting. You use five to 10%. We don't have to kind of push the frontier models more.

0:45Georgie Healy: Everyone needs to catch up. Yes. So it's very exciting. It is exciting. And I'm very German, so you can't see it. This is the most excited you've ever been, right here on the pod. What you will have in place that are 2x, 10x more productive. We have people that build their whole workflow, like there's a lot of mundane tasks. They build everything in co-work, right? That saves them a day, two days a week. Students don't want to interact via email, right? They hate email, they like chats, they hate voice, as we don't have a voice for example, although we could because they don't want to talk. It's an amazing time to be a builder, right?

1:18So you have to be a critical thinker, be proactive, right? That's the profile that's required.

1:28Georgie Healy: Hello, welcome back to In the Blink of AI. I'm Georgie Healy and this is the second and sadly final interview from Dreamforce 2027. If you haven't been following, this has been the most incredible coverage of Salesforce's flagship event in San Francisco during the AI gold rush. Dario, Sam Altman, Jensen Huang, Mark Benioff, the all in pod. The list continues and it was incredible to be able to cover what feels like is an incredible time in history. So thank you for following on LinkedIn and Instagram and listening to last week's episode. We had Jo Inzirillo last week, an executive at Salesforce.

2:10Georgie Healy: And this week we have a real customer explaining what it's like to be adopting AI agents in this very fast moving time. The good, the bad, the ugly, like how are the employees reacting to AI agents, what it looks like when it's being done well, what it feels like in the process. The companies I spoke to this week, the L 'Oreal's, the Formula One's, the Zero's, the Golden Goose, they're all just doing it at a pace that I've only ever seen startups do it in the past. And it's incredible to see. But before we dive into the episode, I'm going to do some news headlines that you need to know about this week.

2:44Georgie Healy: So for 25 years, is software companies have been successful by getting you to use their interface, to get you on their platform. You log in, you find the menus, you click around, and you do everything inside software companies' own interfaces. But AI agents don't need screens. And increasingly, AI agents, not humans, are going to be the ones moving through the internet. They're going to be finding information, taking actions on our behalf. That's something you need to know about AI agents And something else you need to be knowing about AI agents, especially if you're working at one of these companies that are adopting AI agents, is that they're using tools like Salesforce Headless 360.

3:28Georgie Healy: Sounds very metal, which I like. But actually, it just means that they are using the quality data in the background and you don't actually need to log in anywhere. They're using the data, the workflows, the actions, the context of your company and doing all of that for you under the hood while you use like, say, a Claude interface or an AI interface instead. Can you imagine never logging in again? It genuinely seems wild. And it's been so successful, this marrying of Salesforce and Claude, for example, that my prediction is you're going to see way more software companies going headless into 2027.

4:11Georgie Healy: OK, this next one's a bit of a rant, but I am on your side, I swear. 10%. That's how much value your business gets from AI right now. And honestly, that's probably generous. It's more like 5%. And you can't cancel me. This is Dario Amadei, CEO of Anthropics, saying you aren't using AI to nearly the potential of its capabilities. I witnessed him saying this in a room of 10 ,000 other people at Dreamforce, that even if AI completely stopped development, businesses are still only capturing 5 % to 10 % of the value already sitting there. We're so obsessed with the latest model. When's the next Claude model coming?

4:52Georgie Healy: This haiku's just been released. Oh, you're only using Sonnet, I'm using Fable. Who cares? Because when I spoke to the GM of the living company this week, they served thousands of customers. He said that the huge amount of opportunity is still just in boring old automation. This agentic AI, he admits, is incredible. But it's cream on the top, guys. There is so much capability already available. in his view, we could spend the next three years catching up with the models we already have. So I think this is good news. I think if you're feeling overwhelmed by all the models and all the chat and are you using the right one and that was the old one, we got a new one.

5:35Georgie Healy: Don't worry about it. Focus on automating forms, automating emails, streamlining the stuff that you do every single week and that you hate. And you can tell your company, we do not need AGI. We need to start using the AI we're already paying for. Okay, finally, a topic that people are not talking about and I think they should. This sounds small, but I think it changes the entire way we're going to be thinking about software. Studies show that Gen Zs get really stressed out by email. Meanwhile, boomers get really frustrated and overwhelmed by password management. For decades, software has made us adapt and learn around it.

6:14Georgie Healy: Where is the website? Where is the menu? Where is the checkout? Where do I click that? Why isn't it here? What's my dog's maiden name? You had to know all of this stuff based on the website you were on. And that changed for every single website. One benefit to AI is that it'll solve both. This is a true story. I was at book club last night with my friends. We're using this book club app. It helps you poll for your favorite book. It helps you schedule future catch-ups. It helps you find recommended books. Great. But I couldn't find where to schedule the next book club meeting. And my friend laughed at me.

6:50Georgie Healy: She was like, don't you work in tech? And I was like, yeah, bitch, I shouldn't have to do this now. With AI, I should be able to write the words. Book club is Thursday the 22nd, invite the same people. And it should just work. It should just do that automatically. And when this happens, this is going to be brilliant for younger users. They're going to feel like this is much closer to the instant message-based interface they already live in. And for our parents, it's going to remove that friction digital layer around password management. You'll already be logged in. We talked about headless, no more logging in.

7:23Georgie Healy: I predict the companies that win in AI are not using the smartest models. They're not the ones that are like, oh, we're all unfable. It's the companies that don't make humans adapt to their software. Okay, that's the headlines for this week. Now it is time for Mirko Gropp. He is the general manager for technology at The Living Company. This is Australia's leading living platform for student accommodation and senior living. It's an incredible chat. Mirko has this dry German sense of humor that was delightful. He gives real use cases of what it is like to be a company that is engaging and automating and using AI and agents, but what it feels like when some employees are adapting it really fast and others aren't and what that looks like.

8:08Georgie Healy: I know you're going to learn a lot from this chat. I loved having this discussion live at Dreamforce and I hope you love it as much as I did. You're listening to a day one dot FM show.

8:21Georgie Healy: In the Blink of AI is proudly sponsored by Deal, the global HR and payroll platform that's behind expansion of companies like Revolut, Shopify, or fans of the show Eleven Labs who quadrupled their workforce in 54 countries. Build your global team with Deal.

8:45Georgie Healy: Niko, thank you for joining us on In the Blink of AI. We're live from Dreamforce, day three. What do you think of the energy today? What are you feeling being here? Thursdays are always like 3 a.m. in the club when the lights go on. Everybody is just kind of on the last meters and wants to go home. Yeah, that's been a big dream for us. I think Mark rolled every tech giant in that he could find. I was just at the All In. I was just at that too, yes. Yeah, it was good fun, wasn't it? That was fun. What else? I mean, everybody else was here as well. Yeah, it was quite a celebrity-heavy dream for us this year, interestingly.

9:21Georgie Healy: Speaking of that, right, celebrity heavy, and I normally think of the headliners like the Gwen Stefani's and the Usher's and the Will.i.am and Matthew McConaughey and all of those people. But actually, I feel like the tech people, the celebrities, perhaps surpassing them. I don't know if it's just me, or do you feel like they're becoming public lexicon, these big AI people? I mean, they were quite in the news, right, this week. So everybody was watching them, like Sam was here, Dario was here. They were all talking. So it was quite a big news week as well, I guess. Yeah. And tell us before we go any further, where you work, what you do, and, you know, tell us your experience as a Salesforce customer before versus perhaps now.

10:08So I work for the living company. We are probably the biggest property owner and developer in Australia for the living sector. So that we only do living. So that's everything from student to seniors. We also build apartments. So that's our thing. We're kind of building that category in Australia and probably 17 billion in assets. So that's what we do. So we find good opportunities, build something, and then operate it later as well. And I look after technology. So everything from internal like ERP to everything customer facing, including Salesforce. And then how it compares, a lot has changed.

10:43Actually, unfortunately, Mark made all the announcements, earnings call, right? So the whole Cloudforce thing he announced there with Dario. So he kind of stole a bit the thunder for the keynote, but that's basically what changed, right? Like AI is now everywhere, started with AgentForce, now Headless that was announced at TDX. And that's a massive shift, right? So I mean, no login screen. I mean, that's big for a software company. So that was normally your mode, right? Like UI. And I still vendors in the stack that would not even give us an API, right? To call and see where things are at. So it's pretty bold.

11:17And now CloudForce is, again, big shift, right? like opening up and merging it a bit more with Claude, Anthropic, and then others to come, I guess.

11:25Georgie Healy: And as a technology leader, this seismic shift you're talking about, do you mourn the loss of a UI that's just owned by a certain company? Are you excited for Headless? I'm always thinking it's probably the most exciting time in tech at the moment. Today, probably tomorrow, even more. I can build stuff more easily, like with Claude Code and all the me in a year right and i do it with two people and they never touch the code so that's very exciting but also says what like so easy for them to add value with models right summarizing cases making recommendations all that stuff is very it's here now right we just don't use it yet so dario in the keynote said look it's all here you use five to ten percent we don't have to kind of push the front show more uh front show models more because everyone needs to catch up yes so it's very exciting.

12:16Georgie Healy: It is exciting. And I'm very German, so you can't see it. This is the most excited you've ever been right here on the phone. I love that. Talk to me about what used to happen when you have, you know, thousands of students all coming into one of your buildings and what used to triage their questions versus how you would handle that now. Yeah. I mean, a lot of it is bread and butter, kind of preempted, right? Like we kind of nudge people before they arrive to give us all the forms and everything that we need to check them in. 80 % of it is really old school automation, kind of good UX design that you nudge people and they don't show up and have done nothing.

12:55And then on Salesforce specifically, you can do a lot of automations as well to follow up, to trigger certain events. And then kind of the cream now on top is agentic, right? So we have server spot, for example, you can ask questions. It's just the beginning of it. Yeah. So it's Interesting about students is it's a very cyclical business. So they come for the semester and we have 20 ,000 beds now. So there's like 10 ,000 people that would arrive within two to three weeks. So it's a massive scale up, scale down type of scenario. And again, 80 % is just old school automation and building journeys to preempt a lot of that kind of busy work before it happens in the three weeks.

13:37And then Agentic helps as well.

13:39Georgie Healy: And I would love to highlight for the listener who's listening to this thinking, oh, when I was a student, that would have been really helpful. And I didn't have to have a human. I could just ask all the questions and get all the answers whenever I needed any time of day. But for a business, having the insight into the questions they're asking, how important is that? And does that help you as a business knowing the kinds of questions? Yeah, that's probably our journey ahead. Really? But now we have a lot more codified, right? Like all the interactions with the bot we can see, right? And actually, the one thing they launched and didn't really talk about is co-work.

14:14So if you're familiar with Claude and co-work there. Yes. So that's now also in Salesforce. So you can ask questions like that as in go back last four weeks in cases. What are the trends? What's emerging? What should be aware of? Right. Like a natural language. And it really does as in Claude, if you have the data attached to it, gives you an analysis what's happening. So that's really, really amazing for our business. Right. And the interesting thing is we also launched Claude to all our employees. So they're very, very used to kind of how to interact with the UI and so on and so forth. and Claude actually did a very good job in designing it.

14:49It looks very simple, but there's a lot of things behind the scenes, right? Like the concepts they use, like the skills, the artifacts and so on. So bringing that into Salesforce makes it very powerful.

15:00Georgie Healy: And tell me about those employees when you said, you know, as a technology leader, you know, I've been a consultant before just to have to brute force, put a technology on people, it's happening, get with the program. has this advent of AI and perhaps more user-friendly technology solutions in your career, has that made your job any easier, harder? How's it felt to embed technology these days? Yeah, interestingly, it all started with ChatGPT, right? People playing around. So there was a lot of kind of consumer, like user demand for it already. So that really, really helped to just give it to them and they use it, right?

15:38I don't have to do a training or like force them to use it. So they really jumped all in, right? We also have a company that we grew from one property to five to 40. We grew very rapidly. So everybody is kind of really under the power. We didn't grow 40 times and employees in the same time. So everybody has a lot on their plate. So every help is really appreciated. So hence they embrace it. And then as always, probably 50 % of the token usage is 10 % of the staff. There's people that build. Super users. Super users. They build their own app because they are really kind of stuck with a problem and they want to solve it.

16:13And then you have people that spend nothing, right? So you have to still the whole spectrum and it will change, right? It will kind of make its way across the organization.

16:22Georgie Healy: Do you think listeners would find that interesting, you know, having your super users in the company that use up the credits or the tokens? And you probably want to encourage that. They might teach your other employees or make them more delightful. But then eventually, I guess you're going to have to like evenly spread that out. Do you expect that to evenly spread out over time? Yeah, it's one I'm grappling with also from an HR perspective at some point. You will have employees that are 2x, 10x more productive. We have people that build their whole workflow. There's a lot of mundane tasks. They build everything in co-work.

16:55That saves them a day, two days a week. That stuff also HR has to grapple with.

17:00Georgie Healy: Yeah, we're all grappling with it. Cheeky question. You've got a lot of students that are using your chatbots. And maybe this isn't fair to say about the youth just as a millennial, but are they trying to jailbreak it? And how do you make sure that they don't ask for the rent to be decreased and things like that? Those type of use cases, customer facing, they all work on Salesforce. So we use Agent Force, which has really strict guys, chart rails, right? So you can't just ask anything. It's also neither connected to the web or anything, right? It's just our kind of authorized content, our authorized actions, what they can do.

17:36They can raise cases. They can book tours and so on and so forth. But still, they try.

17:40Georgie Healy: Oh, I bet they try. It's actually more well-behaved than you would expect. It's probably below 1 % where they try to flirt or jailbreak it. Try what they read on Reddit to see whether they can get away with it. So it's a small group. I'm not fined for it. So yeah, it's a small group, but some try. And we spoke about the student end of the spectrum that you support, but there's also the aged care. Can you please tell me a little bit about that and how far on the technology evolution that end of the market is at with your company? Yeah, so that's the journey ahead for us. So we do senior living, which is kind of the earliest is 55.

18:18It depends on how fit you are.

18:21Georgie Healy: I know Gwen Stefani last night, 56. I looked it up. She'd be part of your seat. She doesn't look it, don't she? She can come. Shall we invite her? She looks fantastic. Yeah, so that's an interesting journey ahead of us. currently we do very not very much in that sector with uh with digital so but we embarking actually now we will be building our first agent for for that segment it will be a discovery journey right like yeah my hunch is actually they will use it like uh chat interfaces might be a very interesting one my mom is 72 she chats to me all the time but she is not big user of websites and stuff like that right it always comes becomes too complicated with the password in here and there so we will try via bot or like a chat interface might be something to get started.

19:08So that's a discovery journey for us, kind of what works in that sector. But my hunch is, I mean, we're still talking 55 to like 70.

19:16Georgie Healy: Yeah. There will be good use cases for them, right? And interestingly, I mean, the other stakeholders in that journey are the kids, right? How they then kind of stay in the loop, what's happening and so on and so forth. So that's another interesting part to that digital journey. I feel like the people I talk to on this show are oftentimes, myself included, quite AI-pilled and within a very specific age bracket. Some of us do remember the dawn of the internet, but most of us are in that bracket where we've seen that and we've seen AI and we're tech literate, I would say. Your customers probably are at the outer skirts of those or don't remember the internet coming and just are native.

19:59Georgie Healy: Do you think when you build out your tech for the senior living, you'll borrow from learnings? Or will you have to just kind of blank sheet of paper? Probably a letter. Yeah. So we try to build platforms, right? Like, for example, we build a mobile app, right? We build it in a way that we can redesign it, reskin it for senior living as well. So the backend, we want to build the same, but for example, the agent and the tone of voice and how we lead people through stuff will be probably quite different. I'm a big fan of a good UX UI team, so we have one. They would help us. Technologists are normally pretty bad at understanding what is really of value for end users.

20:42They have a hammer. Everything is a nail. Totally. So we have to guide them where are the nails. and there might be different tools to get a screw in. So that's our journey for the senior living. And the other side of the spectrum is also quite interesting, like as in students don't want to interact via email. They hate email. They like chats. They hate voice as we don't have a voice, but for example, although we could because they don't want to talk. They want to send us something and they want an app basically. So that's what we're now launching. Like something dedicated whenever they have a question or anything related to their services with us or their stay, that they can get it done very quickly.

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22:06Georgie Healy: I find this a fascinating thing for people to be grappling with when AI is here and it's coming and it's making our lives easier. But the different groups will have different feelings and thoughts. And even as an Australian here at Dreamforce, we just saw the All In podcast and they're talking about something very American. And I'm like, wow, that's such an interesting way of putting it. And then I guess that would happen when it comes to an agent and their tone of voice will make people emotionally behave differently with it and things like that. I guess my question to you is, how do you make it not unk for the gen z's and how do you make it not you know too much jargon for the for the older groups is that a your decision or a salesforce decision or do you work together how do you create that agent together in the end salesforce will give us the platform where you can build whatever you want right that's the great thing about salesforce also sometimes the bad thing because you can also build stuff that doesn't really work so that's our journey as well, right?

23:08Like you learn over time, make it more granular. So yeah, the first bot sales was actually the big use case and it still is. Like a year ago, we launched it. Now we rebuild it completely actually together with Salesforce to have, for example, tone of voice. Right before you couldn't even do it technically. Also the technology itself has come a long way over the last 12 months. Right before it was very stock standard kind of content retrieval, very little observability. You couldn't even understand what's working, what's not working. And that has all changed now. Like now you can really see every chat that gets rated on the quality.

23:38You can ingrain tone of voice and then you have to research with your students what they like, what they don't like. And to your point, our journey, we have big target groups and over time personalize everything more to them, which is also great. It's an opportunity also for them to get better service or service aligned to their expectations.

23:56Georgie Healy: How long would it have taken to roll something like this out in your career 10 years ago versus what it looks like now? Not possible 10 years ago. Yeah, like actually not even possible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy, right? Like it's probably 5X, 10X already now, right? Especially if you go more and more custom, right? And that's kind of the trajectory also. Salesforce and Parker are driving like headless, what they call headless. You build then your surfaces, right? Might be an app, might be a bot, right? You can build a custom build, all of that then on top of Salesforce. Does that 5 to 10X pace also play into that?

24:32Georgie Healy: Like you can do it that much faster. Do you feel pressure to build it faster? Or is it really just like it's at our fingertips? Let's go. What's more? We always, right? Like we have a medium-sized company. So you always don't have enough budget, right? You have a hundred use cases that are great. You can deliver 10. So it's actually an amazing opportunity. Now we might be able to deliver 20, right? And then in the future, we might be able to deliver 50. So it's really great, right? Like I'm a builder. I like to build stuff, right? Like people in tech, they like to build stuff. It's very exciting.

25:03Back to the, it's an amazing time, right? SaaS is progressing. Custom build is progressing. So yeah.

25:09Georgie Healy: I find that brilliant. I know we've got some rapid fire spicy questions. Are you excited for those? Are you scared for those? Let's see. Oh, you're going to find out. Where else do you see AI disrupting property in Australia? Yeah. I'm not sure it's disrupting, right? Like our product is basically location. very important value, right, like quality and cost, right, like the core product will not be really disrupted, right? So it's a lot of money, long cycles and so on and so forth, but I think it will make the product a lot more attractive, right? Like hopefully we can eradicate a lot of the mundane, busy work, friction, right, between our residents and us.

25:48Georgie Healy: Property is very hot in Australia. You've lived in Australia, did you say 15 years? Yeah, you must be very familiar with how obsessed we are with property. Do you think that, you know, with what you're doing at The Living Company, that other industries might have anything to learn with how we can grapple with housing in general? Yeah, not sure. I haven't thought about other industries. But I think our industry will change quite a bit, right? Like currently, investment thesis of our whole company, right? Like to create the living sector as something that investors can kind of invest in. So the obvious one is senior living will double, triple, right?

26:24Like just looking at demographics. So that will be a lot bigger. And then I would assume the big one that just started is what we call in Australia BTR. So we build to rent. So we build apartments and it's for rent. So I think that's a trend that will continue as in people rather than buying and being locked in, they rather rent. So that whole sector living will become more common as it is in other countries. Yeah, I think that's a big shift in the property space. And for others, property is very old school in the sense. It's around a lot of money, delivering a project, right? Like some of our projects are more than a billion dollars or more than a thousand apartments, right?

27:02It's massive. So I think that's the core of it, right? Delivering something like that. And AI will help again, right? Like getting rid of the mundane tasks and making better decisions. So definitely improvement.

27:13Georgie Healy: Yeah, I really like that. And maybe democratize the process for people that wouldn't have been able to figure it out normally. And for us to provide a better service, right? Yes, yes. Proud renter, actually. But I lived in London for years and I just, I lost the Kool-Aid of you need to own property. So that build to rent model is quite exciting. Because there is a room available. The time window is very small, right? Like it's like on a plane. So you have your four weeks. If you don't sell it, it's a bit more, but like let's say four weeks, then there's an empty room, right? So we try to predict, are you leaving?

27:45And if we think it's very likely that you're leaving, we already try to sell basically your room type, things like that. So they proved to be quite different or quite valuable for the business. And others where we thought, oh, we know you're leaving. Let's try to A, B test whether an offer could sway you to stay. Yes. Proved to be quite hard to operationalize, to do A, B testing to start with in such a big cohort. You need a lot of automation and sophistication. So that's probably use cases that fizzled out. But the other one proved to be very valuable.

28:17Georgie Healy: What do you predict that you can't do right now that you might be able to do at Dreamforce 2027? Is that something that you might be able to do? I gave up predicting because of Cheb Ritland literally in the last six months. Oh, I love predictions. Yeah, I don't know. Like last six months were already here. So I think pragmatic, there's so much already available. We can spend the next three years to make use of all of that, right? It's not really the models themselves, right? Like a lot of the use cases need a very sophisticated model, right? like just interacting back and forth, kind of helping customers.

28:49You don't need a fable for that, right?

28:51Georgie Healy: Agree. Yeah. So there's so much already here now will not get boring. Sam Altman yesterday, two days ago, said, you know, Chakshi BT is now, has stronger math, best math professor in the planet now. And it's like, I just don't know why I would need that. I just don't, I'm not really solving anything that big right now. There's horses for courses, right? There's the simple stuff, like just answering questions or taking a case and managing a case. But there's also the hard stuff. And back to co-work, right? Like, if you can do this type of analysis, hey, go through my cases, what are the patterns?

29:24What can we improve? I mean, that's very valuable, right? And that's driven by things like Fable, right? Like very sophisticated reasoning. I mean, the North Star is the math stuff, but the underlying is how do you reason in multiple steps, right? And query data. So that's also quite interesting as a use case in a business, right? Yeah.

29:42Georgie Healy: Yeah, I love that. Okay, I promise two more. What will Scape potentially be running in two years? It's another prediction. You love your predictions. Oh, I know. The fans love the predictions. What will Scape potentially be running in two years that does not exist as a product today? Is there any products that you would love to release that you haven't yet? Yeah. I mean, what we will start to do more is to build very kind of vertical, like just for our use case. There's a lot of horizontal sets that can do everything, but not kind of very specific to students or to senior. So those type of things we will build ourselves.

30:18So there will be a lot more, right? Like back to headless, like very specific use cases that we build ourselves. Like the app, right? It will be very much for students. The other one will be very much for senior living, right? Like there is wide-label apps, but they all are the same, but we will have something very customized for that use case. And there's more, right? Like I mentioned, people are building stuff themselves, right? Like somebody built a whole, like a CRM for development, right? It's a very complex process with a lot of steps, literally like a thousand steps. Really specific solutions, that's here now.

30:49We just have to mature it and integrate it into ERP and so on and so forth. So that's one, very vertical solutions. And then there will be also on the back of it. Not everybody can do it. Or if we can do it 2x better than somebody that has three buildings, like BTR is super new. Senior living is very fragmented. So there will be at industry level, I think, locally consolidation, potentially even globally, right? Because somebody like us can build a global platform.

31:15Georgie Healy: Okay, what I've loved that you say quite a few times is, you know, like it's essentially out carrying the competition. We can't control everything. We can't control visas and the property market necessarily. But what we can control is how much we adopt AI and personalization and how we be better than the competition. I really love that message. I guess my last question for you is the people that are listening that might be considering starting their own startup or, you know, been playing with AI and been playing with Claude and been playing with Chuck GPT. Is there anything you think should light a fire up our butts right now?

31:53Yeah. I mean, there's room for a lot of these very custom solutions, right? Like that were too hard to build. right like especially if you are in a company like the builders within a company there's so many opportunities now right to build like the perfect thing before you had to buy something off the shelf 80 percent now you can build a perfect thing at kind of tenth of the cost than it was before so there's heaps of opportunity right and actually back to the point right like it's now business users right they set out they've never done coding in their life they actually don't do it right claude does it but they set up github they set up multi-factor authentication right like i have never done something like that but clocked right that's the amazing thing about ai you don't have to tell it what to do you tell it hey this is the outcome i want this is how it should look like how do i get there i'd like prompting the outcome and then claude or any other platform you use claude a lot guides you on that way so it's an amazing time to be a builder right so you have to be a critical thinker be proactive right that's the profile that's required right and then if you consider to start a startup and that's your profile right like otherwise you wouldn't do it and that can be on your own outside of a company but i think it enables as well within the company right and it's for the leaders to think through it obviously comes with risk but

33:09Georgie Healy: like all that stuff can go either way right that's a very very strong ending i i really love this chat moko and i really want listeners who have have heard what you said to to feel empowered to build. Like even if you're not technical by background, as you said, you don't need to code now. Your limitation really is as limited as your imagination. And then you kind of work your way backwards. Amazing. It's an amazing time ever today and even better tomorrow. Wow, you're good at this, mate. We'll have you on again. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you so much for listening to In the Blink of AI.

33:51Georgie Healy: If you want to go deeper on anything we've spoken about today. I write a weekly substat called Attention is All I Need. Yes, it's hilarious. It's a pun. And essentially, I go into AI rants, tech news, events I'm going to, and more. It's bite-sized, and I hear it's awesome. The link is in the show notes below.