Oscar Shortlists & Moving to YouTube; A New Spielberg Trailer; & The Incredible Films of Rob Reiner

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0:33Welcome to Screen Talk, IndieWire's weekly podcast, bringing you up to speed on the latest goings-on in Hollywood. I'm Anne Thompson in L.A.

0:41Ryan Lattanzio:And I'm Ryan Latanzio in New York. A lot of news to cover this week. We're going to look at the Oscars' big transition into the future, especially as their ABC deal is set to end in 2028 and the Academy Awards show is moving to YouTube. We also are going to review the trailer for Steven Spielberg's Disclosure Day, which revealed its first footage this week and its title after some kind of ominous billboard that appeared in Times Square here in New York. And we're also going to do the Netflix versus Paramount battle for Warner Discovery, which is continuing on. And we will parse the Oscar shortlists that provide clues about where the Oscar race is heading.

1:20Ryan Lattanzio:But before we get into all that, I think, Anne, we obviously have to acknowledge what is clearly the story of our times right now, which is this murder of Rob Reiner and Michelle Reiner, which is fucking horrible and a very sick, depressing note to end on what feels like a very sick year already. You know, it's hard to know what to say at this point. It's a developing story. I'm sure you have much to say about Rob Reiner from your career, but there was a spate of films that he directed from the mid 80s to the early 90s that was basically my starter pack as a kid getting into movies. Though, actually, I have to be honest, I was never sort of that charmed by The Princess Bride.

2:08Ryan Lattanzio:Oh, I loved that movie. It was like in school, like all the theater people who wore toe socks and loved knitting in public were really into that movie. but When Harry Met Sally, Misery, Stand By Me, A Few Good Men these are all masterpieces or near masterpieces especially When Harry Met Sally which a movie that I think young people are I'm not one of the young people anymore young people are discovering no, these are all great films Anne, what's your feeling about Rowan? Well, I'm not the first to say this but one of the things I mean, first of all, I grew up with him since I'm a little older than you on All in the Family, you know, Meathead.

2:49And he's a very, he was a very, very funny actor. And he's obviously the son of Carl Reiner, who's one of the funniest people on the planet. So he had good genes. He learned from the best. I mean, Carol O 'Connor as his scene partner, you know. Gene Stapleton, who played the mom. I mean, these are amazing, amazing actors. So he then grew up into becoming a director. As Ryan, you say, he was very good. But what he brought to it was a combo, which is very hard to find, of not only being able to be funny and to tell a good story and to tell it well and to give the audience something to hang on to, but he had humanity.

3:32He had heart. And that's the reason all those movies do reach people so much and last so long. They last. I mean, I still look at A Few Good Men. The classic scene with Jack Nicholson and Tom Cruise, the face-off, is just one of the most brilliant things ever in movies. So, you know, he knew how to get that stuff. And he has also been beloved in Hollywood because of his politics, which were liberal. And I will never forgive Trump for many things. The list is endless. But his reaction to Reiner's death is unforgivable, loathsome, and vile.

4:14Ryan Lattanzio:No, that was awful. And I think even his most ardent fans are having a hard time defending that one. He made it about himself. They went after him on Fox News. Like a whole group of them. I mean, the coverage overall has been really gruesome. And I think there's people that are making opportunities for themselves because of it. There was a yoga teacher who gave an interview about Nick Reiner's supposed behavior in whatever she observed. It's really bizarre. I mean, just so you look at the headlines and people, the New York Post, which, you know, we're inundated with and they're extremely disturbing.

4:51Ryan Lattanzio:And then obviously you have Trump who inserted himself into it. The thing that sticks in my head is the fact that there are many, many families who have disturbed children. Either they're lost or they're sad or they're depressed or they have mental illness or they have drug problems or they're dual diagnosis. I had a brother in my family who had a lot of problems and was homeless at one point. So I feel for this family. I feel for them deeply. And I'm so sorry that this happened. This is the worst case scenario that you could ever come up with. And I know other cases like this, unfortunately. It does happen.

5:39And it's just a very destructive and awful thing.

5:45Ryan Lattanzio:Yeah, thank you for saying all that, Anne. That's very thoughtful. All right, we're going to segue out and move on to what's going on at a more superficial level in the industry. So, Ryan, what do you make of this surprising Oscar news? The news being that the Oscars in 2029 are going to be on YouTube. And you and I talked about this a little the other day, that there will be more exposure, more transparency. They were already saying things like the Governor's Awards, the Science and Tech Awards, which nobody ever watches. These things are going to be also made available. This also leaves it open for an even longer running time.

6:28Ryan Lattanzio:Maybe speech is not getting played off. I have to say that I enjoy the mystique and the veneer and this sort of, I don't know, the untouchability of the Oscars a little bit as this kind of sacred event. And to me, this is making it, I don't know, this feels like a degradation somehow. Okay, I agree with you to a certain degree. They're opening up, they're flying open all the doors. And we have to assume that YouTube was where the money was, just to be crass about it. they're losing a$90 to$100 million licensing fee from ABC. But in going with YouTube, it's a massive change in how the academy presents itself.

7:17I mean, they can offer not just the red carpet and backstage, but the governor's ball and the nominee's luncheon, which were never, ever televised. And as you say, it's more transparent. What you're trying to say, I think, is it's less exclusive. it's it's less tony it's less classy um and that's going to be a challenge i mean they have four years to figure it out but how does youtube make the oscars classy youtube is about ubiquity and and populism and and of the people for the people uh this is not and also the other question is the YouTube audience the Oscar audience. The Oscar audience is older.

8:02It is a broadcast audience.

8:06Ryan Lattanzio:Yeah, well, obviously, with it being on YouTube, they're turning it into a more influencer-facing event. And you're seeing increasingly on red carpets that influencers and social media users are the people being installed on press lines. And it's heading in that direction. That's how they're trying to reach younger audiences. I don't know that it's going to work necessarily. I question the relevance of the Oscars in the broader culture outside of our industry, at least relative to, you know, years ago. I mean, you've seen that change happen, too. And that's reflected in the viewership. Yeah. And I mean, also, it's not it's not spelling good tidings for linear cable, either, that events like this are moving off of set tops and onto streaming platforms.

8:52Well, a lot of people do watch YouTube on TV. That is one thing that's true. More people watch it on TV than anywhere else. The trick here is going to be that you have to have a subscription to YouTube Live. You have to be able to, this isn't going to be free. I might be wrong, but that's what I'm hearing, that you really do have to be able to have YouTube Live to get it.

9:20Ryan Lattanzio:and I've exhausted all my fake emails, all my burner accounts, all the ways that I've gotten free YouTube live for to watch live events over the last few years. So I will have to pay. Uh, and I guess, yeah, just thinking about that, we will still be here doing this in four years. We'll see about that, Ryan. I don't, I don't actually know. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that's true or if I want it to be true, even I don't know. And then the latest thing is Warner Brothers. Their board of directors has rejected the$100 billion Paramount bid. But that bid was submitted directly to the shareholders.

9:58So this still has to play out. Paramount is still begging the shareholders to look at the value that they're offering. and but for those who aren't devotees of Matt Bellany's The Town his guest this week was antitrust zealot Senator Elizabeth Warren and it's I really have to recommend this it is great fun to hear the two of them go toe-to-toe as he plays devil's advocate for some kind of sale And she explains why this is a huge antitrust violation. It's really fun.

10:34Ryan Lattanzio:The other element spinning out of this is that Ted Sarandos is kind of being more insistent that he's going to honor Warner Brothers' theatrical strategy and windows. And I don't know if he's saying that with his fingers crossed behind his back or with a kind of wink to shareholders. No, no, he's saying it. He said it to me. Yeah. How does Netflix operate a theatrical business with one arm and then another that is sort of totally antithetical? to that. I don't know. You're the person who understands this more than me. My understanding of what he said to me, which I can't really quote, so I'm going to get in trouble now, but he's saying it to other people.

11:11My sense is that it's a question of being able to experiment with it and see what works, you know, like they always do. That's what they do at Netflix. So they're going to take Knives Out or K-pop Demon Hunter's sequel or Narnia or whatever, the movies like that, that could do well theatrically of their own and put them in theaters, maybe for longer. And they're also going to honor all the contracts that exist for all the Warner Brothers movies. They're going to look at each, they're going to play, what's the word? It's a customized suit, right? Bespoke. They're going to look at each thing and figure out what works and see what works and do the numbers.

11:58That's what they do at Netflix. They do the numbers. To quote the Marketplace podcast.

12:07Ryan Lattanzio:Speaking of Warner Brothers, actually today, a teaser was revealed for the Inuritu movie with Tom Cruise, which is called Digger. That's an interesting title. What do you think it means? I don't it's someone's digging themselves into a hole probably That's what I get from that they talk about it as if it's a comedy But the fact that it's not coming out until next I mean they stopped shooting it a while ago It isn't coming out until the end of next year that suggests a that they have a holiday movie with a Oscar campaign in mind obviously, but also that they still have a lot of visual effects to finish and stuff like that So there must be some production value involved.

12:51Ryan Lattanzio:Yeah, he told you, right, that post-production wasn't going to be done until at least March. I suppose that means that it could get to Cannes. Show Terry and his team an early cut of it or something. That would be cool. I could see that happening. I mean, we had Tom Cruise made a big splash, obviously, at Cannes with Mission Impossible. He likes Cannes, yeah. He does. But Iñárritu likes Venice, so it could go there as well, given the date. Interesting. So the other movie that we looked at, the trailer, is Spielberg's movie, which is called Disclosure Day. This is a new title also. And I looked at it.

13:30Emily Blunt is front and center. She's in it. And she seems to be inhabited by aliens of some kind, if I'm reading it correctly. and she's some kind of window or messenger or conduit between aliens and Earth. But the overall take that I had, while I'm sure this movie is beautifully mounted and gorgeous and I can't wait to see it, of course, it's Spielberg, it does look awfully familiar. The tropes look very familiar to anyone who's seen Close Encounters, especially uh i would say what do you think ryan uh not only does it look familiar it looks like an

14:13Ryan Lattanzio:m night shaman movie where the animals are the only ones who hear what's going on uh and yeah i mean i actually saw i watched close close encounters a few years ago and that movie is amazing it is so good and then you have war of the worlds which came i think 20 years ago which is Spielberg in this later register where his movies, it's not quite a lesson, but they come with a message about human kindness and how we need to be better and make the world a better place. Or E.T., for that matter. Or E.T. And I kind of miss the meanness and the nasty streak of something like Minority Report or even Bridge of Spies or Munich.

14:52Ryan Lattanzio:These are darker movies. The other thing about this one is that Janusz Kaminski, we got to shake up the shtick a little bit. It's like the lens flares the anamorphic, the heavy backlighting. I'm with you on Janusz. I think Janusz has a certain old-fashioned approach to cinematography. I am a huge admirer of his. I like him personally very much. He's a very puckish, fun, wonderful man. But I keep seeing this in Spielberg's movies with him. It makes it less current. No, they all look like this now. And then I guess the other takeaway from it is that we understand that Emily Blunt is the lead of this movie and not Josh O 'Connor necessarily.

15:36Ryan Lattanzio:Yet another Josh O 'Connor movie. Yeah, there's so many. But we look forward to them. We always want to see Josh. No, we do. And I suppose his leading man's studio vehicle will be, well, it's Wake Up Dead Man, which is streaming on Netflix. And doing very well. Doing well. And he got good reviews. The movie got better reviews than I would have given it, I have to say. Yeah. No, you and I are the same. You and I, we... I don't... I look... I mean, even Justin Chang gave it a good review. Yeah, I was shocked by the positivity around this one. It's very... I found it smug and unfunny, and it's these movies where it's a puzzle to be solved, and then it solves itself.

16:22Ryan Lattanzio:It makes it very uninteresting. I thought it was boring. It isn't... It went by me. I just sort of let it flow over me. wasn't unpleasant it was perfect but but I wasn't interested or engaged except Josh O 'Connor who I adored I thought he was great he was good no I watched it with a dead face I felt I really truly felt nothing and it's very long it's almost two and a half hours maybe we talked about Rob Reiner which is unforgivable for 90 minutes and I like Rian Johnson very much I listen to all his interviews I find him engaging and fun but more more in person than in this movie, I have to say.

16:59Okay, so then we move on to the short lists. All right. Do you get a kick out of this? Because it's real. It tells you things. It tells you what's really going on.

17:12Ryan Lattanzio:Yeah, one thing that I took away is that this sort of this documentary curse that we've encountered before, and I always use the same example. It's the Morgan Neville, Mr. Rogers movie where the movies where everyone assumed, oh, that one's covered. People are going to vote for that one. Tale of Cillian, Orwell, 2 plus 2 equals 5, both out. I don't know why that's true of Orwell. What I do know about the Tale of Cillian, because they certainly were promoting it, and I saw it and thought it was the frontrunner. I really did. The reason, because it got a lot of awards, nominations, and it's gotten a lot of attention in the run-up.

17:52apparently it didn't open until Venice that's when it was premiered and so this didn't have the Sundance advantage again a lot of these movies were debuted at Sundance that gives them a longer ramp up gives them a longer period of time to get people to see the film the trick is with so many documentaries you got to get people to see them and my only explanation for Cillian is that it came in late and not enough people saw it because it was a really excellent film.

18:24Ryan Lattanzio:Something like My Undesirable Friends benefited from, we at the New York Film Critics gave that best documentary and it won the Gothams. These are late-breaking awards that I think that movie otherwise wasn't on everybody's radar. No, no, you helped it a lot. No question about it. No question about it. So the three Netflix docs did get in, as I thought they would, because that's a long list. I mean, it's a list of 15 movies. So that's the thing. If you don't make that list, you know, what's wrong with you? But those three can't all end up in the final five. There's anti-Netflix sentiment, and there's also they just won't do all three.

19:06I can't see it. Which ones do you think will get in of those three? Perfect Neighbor, Pocalypse in the Tropics, and Cover Up. They're all strong. They're the strongest movies in the whole bunch, actually.

19:20Ryan Lattanzio:Perfect Neighbor feels like the one. I mean, that's been the most campaign. That's had the longest. Well, actually, no. Apocalypse in the Tropics was at festivals in 2024. But I would say Perfect Neighbor has been on the trail all year going back to Sundance where it won the directing award. She's very popular. People really respect her. She has a relationship with Spike Lee, Sam Pollard. She's embedded in the community. Gita Gunbeer. So then we have, well, if you had to guess, what would be some of the other strong... I don't think your five and a half hour movie is going to make it to the final five, My Undesirable Friend.

19:59Ryan Lattanzio:I do not either, but I think 2 ,000 Meters to Andreevka could. That's going to make it. That'll make it. I could see something like Coexistence, My Ass getting in there, just because it is about the Israel-Palestine divide. And that is... There are three of them. Yeah, there's three in the International. So that actually, you know, and that's a very entertaining doc. I have to see that one still. Yeah. One I really liked was Mistress Dispeller. I don't know if that's going to get into the top five, but I saw that like a can or something last year. I don't even remember, but that's a great Chinese documentary.

20:34I have to see that, too. I liked Cutting Through Rocks, which is Iranian and a great story about a woman. trying to go up against the patriarchy and not always succeeding. Good movie, good movie. And then the thing is, there's an advantage in the doc race for international films. Last year, five of them got in, and usually, so something like the Alabama Solution, which I think is an incredible documentary that everybody should see, might not make it if it doesn't appeal to the international voters. Right.

21:12Ryan Lattanzio:And then something like Six Billion Dollar Man didn't make it in the Julian Assange documentary by Andrew Jarecki's brother Eugene. But I feel like part of that is people are just fatigued about that particular story. We want to move on. Nobody wants to. Nobody wants to spend time with him. No, no. We're done with all that. toxic. All right. And then let's move on to the international race where I was, you know, all the movies I thought would get in, got in. And I think it's just a question of whether the neon movies make it, all five of them. Surratt did so well on the shortlists with five mentions across the shortlist that you have to assume Surratt will get into the final five.

22:07The one that might not make it, do you think maybe it'll be no other choice? We're assuming that it was just an accident, sentimental value, and these are both best picture contenders.

22:19Ryan Lattanzio:Those are locked in. And Secret Agent might be a picture contender as well, but Surratt is the one that got the shortlist attention. Yeah, no other choice feels like the one that has the least fervor around it of those four. It's chillier. I'm sorry, those five. It is chillier. I quite like that movie. I love the movie. I think it's great. But if we had to pick, maybe the voice of Hindra Job gets in there. I think so, yeah. But otherwise, these are kind of all the expected movies. The left-handed girl. Yeah. I was really happy about Sound of Falling. I don't think that's good. That's not getting in the top five, but that's a great film and a very unusual, challenging movie, It got a short list mentioned somewhere else.

23:02I think cinematography. Yeah, that one is that surprised me. I mean, Train Dreams did well. Even if I sort of looked at the casting nominations almost as a bellwether for Best Picture, which is probably not accurate. But most of the Best Picture contenders were there in their list of 10. And the one that might not make it would be weapons. I was surprised to see weapons there. on the casting list.