'Toy Story 5' Up, 'Supergirl' Down; NBC Universal & Comcast Split

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0:45Welcome to Screen Talk, IndieWire's weekly podcast, bringing you up to speed on the latest goings on in Hollywood. I'm Anne Thompson in L.A.

0:53Ryan Lattanzio:And I'm Ryan LaToncio in New York City. On this week's podcast, we're going to debate why Toy Story 5 is up and Supergirl is down at the box office, and what will happen to Minions and Monsters, which Anne saw. We're also going to look at the changing shape of Hollywood's legacy studios as NBCUniversal splits from Comcast, as announced this week. We're also going to examine the likelihood that we may be seeing some double at Oscars 2027. Will we see ongoing word-of-mouth hit Obsession in the awards race? First, a news update, as we suspected last week, Artificial, the hot potato Sam Altman movie that was ditched by Amazon has been sold to Neon, the indie that released Oscar Best Picture winner Anora.

1:38Neon's release noted that, quote, it will compete in this year's Oscar race, unquote. That means Venice, right, Ryan, against the social reckoning?

1:48Ryan Lattanzio:Most likely. I have to say I don't see the Venice Film Festival programming an Aaron Sorkin-directed movie. Alberto Barbera and his team, they are very particularly mercurial in ways similar to the New York Film Festival, for example. This movie, like Molly's Game before it, is screaming tiff to me, perhaps with some kind of starry actor tribute attached to it. And I have to say, I will speak on Luca, but as a filmmaker, Sorkin is very reverent to his own text, which means he has trouble getting out of his own way as a filmmaker. But we do need to see the movie. As for artificial, you know, when CAA started screening this for buyers, whatever it was, two weeks ago, it was not completed.

2:29Ryan Lattanzio:So it means they might be rushing it to Venice, but they do have two months. And I can't see Luca wanting to miss out on Venice, but he's been very strategic about how he places his films there. Remember, he withdrew challengers amid the pandemic after the hunt went out of competition, where it probably fared better. But he might be feeling a little tender after the reception to that movie last year. So with only with Neon's full confidence, I think, with Venice being his perennial stomping grounds and the fact that the movie Artificial will need a festival launch to make a den in the Oscars. It does seem artificial might launch a Telluride.

3:06Yeah.

3:07Ryan Lattanzio:I mean, the other thing I was thinking is how in some ways the quality should go, in my humble opinion. Yeah, I agree with you. I don't know that this movie sounds like is exactly right for Venice either. But again, haven't seen any footage or even of still at this point. But also the quality may be irrelevant. The movie sounds like it's a fuck you to AI and big tech and Hollywood's going to want to throw itself behind that message. When you say Hollywood, do you mean Oscar voters? Oscar voters. Sure. Is that what you mean? That's what I mean. Because Hollywood has a lot of support, you know, support for AI.

3:39They use it. They're all employing it. They don't they're not afraid of technology. It's the internet and film lovers and cinephiles and...

3:49Ryan Lattanzio:Guild members, voters. Film forum goers that are afraid of AI. Not Hollywood itself, I would suggest. Maybe not. Altman is another matter. He's being painted as a villain in this movie. And I'm sure there's many... I don't know. I haven't seen it either. I thought maybe we were going to get an award season off from Luca Guadagnino. but it appears no. Neon said in its press release it is going into the awards season. And, you know, he's sometimes criticized for overexposure and being overly prolific, but I think he's actually a very smart strategist in the sense that he kind of lives by the Bergman credo and sets the next one up before the current one could potentially bomb.

4:34That's Soderbergh's MO as well.

4:37Ryan Lattanzio:So, Anne, was the Toy Story 5 box office, Was that what you were expecting? Yeah, yeah. I wasn't worried about Toy Story 5. You know, the track record is extraordinary, even though it had a$70 million second weekend, which is down 56%, which marks the largest domestic drop of the Toy Story franchise. That could have been partly due to the World Cup. But Pixar will soon claim the third Toy Story movie to surpass one billion worldwide. And all five of those movies earned an A cinema score. But sure to clip its wings this holiday weekend is Monsters and Minions from Universal's Illumination, which surprised me with its heartfelt and funny black and white homage to silent cinema in the first hour.

5:30This is not in the dark materials, needless to say. As it shouldn't be.

5:36Ryan Lattanzio:Sorry to say. Not how to sell. Not how to sell the movie. But it's lovely. And so the, you know, the hipsters in the all media screening were chuckling knowingly, you know, while we got these homages to, you know, meet Melies, A Trip to the Moon, Harold Lloyd's The Clock, Charlie Chaplin's Modern Times, and the great Buster Keaton's Steamboat Bill Jr., where the house falls on his head, you know. The point is that the toddler sitting on my right, who was actually very well-behaved, and I was delighted with him because he was laughing the whole time at the Minions. That's the point. That's what works for all ages.

6:23And that's how Universal is selling the movie. It's the monsters and the Minions that are going to make people come and see it. And the fact that it has a million laughs. I was just laughing the whole time. with the kid next to me.

6:36Ryan Lattanzio:Yeah, I'm hoping I can see that one with my eight-year-old nephew later this summer. And it's heartening to hear that there's so many cinematic references in it, which even those maybe won't register with the kids, because I've been thinking about how this month Fathom is re-releasing Citizen Kane for its 85th anniversary. And I'm trying to figure out how do we get young people in the theater for that to understand that that is an insane, radical movie. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's not responsible for all of the stylistic tendencies of the contemporary filmmakers that you revere. Okay, well said, Ryan.

7:15The fact is that over the last week, I went to three out of five Hitchcock movies at the museum, the Academy Museum, with lectures from Guillermo del Toro. when I go to these screenings, the place is packed, and it's packed with people of all ages and younger people, you know? It is, especially with Guillermo on board, they got more of the Comic-Con crowd, you know, the boys in t-shirts, you know, crowd. But it was fun to see, and that there were, you know, two black and white films in there, Notorious and Shadow of a Doubt. No, three, I confess, was the third. And then I got to see Frenzy again, which I had remembered as one that I didn't like, and it's actually great.

8:06I like that one.

8:07Ryan Lattanzio:I like that one. Yeah, it's twisted. It's great. It's nasty. Yeah, it's really fucked up. This is the second film I've seen in a while where there's a rape in the movie depicted on, you know, the other one was Clint Eastwood's you know, High Plains Drifter, which shocked me. It actually shocked me when it happened. Yeah, it's almost like his version of Michael Powell's Peeping Tom, like a movie that could have sunk him, but then he died shortly thereafter. So I didn't get the chance for that to happen. You know, if you're a repertory film house, like Hitchcock's always going to be a blockbuster.

8:39Ryan Lattanzio:If you want to bring in the summer crowds, like do a Hitchcock series. Those are all those always fill up. So elsewhere at the box office, another movie that I still haven't seen. And unfortunately, the windows probably closed. Supergirl, which you talked about last week, opened disappointingly with only$37 million at the domestic box office. Whereas Superman, at the end of the day, managed to grow$617 million worldwide. And this one, which got a B - cinema score, which is low for a DC movie. Though they have been on the lower end, some of these superhero movies in recent times. Supergirl's not going to show those kind of legs.

9:17Ryan Lattanzio:It's probably maybe it'll do really well on PVOD, where the studio can take a lot more money at that point. Plenty of femme superheroes have scored at the box office already, and many other comic book movies have faltered. So what went wrong here? This is a case where if you get a... All right. Millie Alcock got good reviews. I liked her, too. I thought she was great. She's not a household name, but neither was David Cornswept. Superheroes don't need to be established stars. So I don't buy that particular theory that there were no stars. I mean, Jason Momoa is in it, but he's in a supporting role.

9:53People aren't going to go see it for him. It's the title that's supposed to carry the franchise, the superhero. That's supposed to be the deal. But they don't care about Supergirl. You know, she's not important. And the reviews were terrible. 49 on Metacritic. I mean, that's really bad. And so that means the movie didn't deliver to audiences. And with a B minus, that means that. And so, Ryan, that's it. That movie's dead.

10:21Ryan Lattanzio:Does that mean that now is this the kiss of death for these kind of superhero movies? And we're just going to go back to the Zack Snyder level visual sewage type of movies that appeal squarely to the toxic fanboys? You know, that's what I liked about the movie. And a couple of people on our staff liked it, too, that it was on a smaller scale. She's trying to save her dog. Fate of the universe is not at stake, but the life of her beloved Crypto is at stake. And you actually care about that, believe it or not. I don't know how to say this. It was it was geared to women and it was geared on a smaller scale.

11:03And it just didn't feel it didn't play to the guys. I can tell it just didn't. Well, the fact that I have them. Yeah.

11:12Ryan Lattanzio:Well, the fact that I haven't seen it is not because I'm a sexist. It's because not because there's a woman at the front of it. It's because it's a superhero movie. It just that's that's why I haven't gone. No, no, you don't like them. So, Ryan, there's Oscar talk around obsession, which surprises me, frankly. Focus is the distributor, and that may be why, because they know how to do Oscar campaigns. I finally went to see it, Ryan. And, you know, there were plenty of people in the theater. But what I was struck by, I'll talk about that in a minute. Do you think it's an Oscar contender? Well, first of all, I'm dying to know what you thought of it, now that you finally saw it.

11:53Ryan Lattanzio:Secondly, I do, to be honest, I blame some of these pundits for pushing the narrative that the movie, blame is the wrong word, but there are people, even on our staff, that are saying Indy Navarrete, for example, deserves the Best Actress Oscar. Marcus! Marcus did! And obviously Focus certainly believes it's... And Clay Davis is doing it, too, over a variety. Focus certainly believes it's an Oscar contender, and their strategy, I think, is going to have to revolve around this deconstruction of what an Oscar contender is, right? Like, what is a contender anymore? I think you'll agree with me that The Substance is a very different movie, and Obsession doesn't have the same thematically resonant hook that that film did, that clicked with the industry, and Weapons didn't have that either.

12:38Ryan Lattanzio:That did win an Oscar, but we kind of saw how that played out. And I don't feel like the filmmaking and obsession is strong enough to make it hit with critics and the right groups. But I don't know. The Astra Midseason Awards, which are from the Hollywood Film Alliance. What the hell is that? Have we ever heard of this? No. Who are they? Come on. They make up these things. I think it's the former Hollywood Critics Association. Do you know what I'm talking about? Oh, well, they got into trouble, remember? Yeah, I think that's dismantled. You know, who's part of this group is Simone Cromer, the Club Chalamet woman.

13:18Ryan Lattanzio:So that just goes to show you who's voting in the group. I don't want to speak ill. I don't know who's part of it. But you do. You pay dues to be a voting member of that group. Yeah, I don't think it's going to happen. The Substance, which Obsession resembles, was a much more substantial and well-mounted movie with a lot of critical acclaim. And Obsession is well-crafted. It's a low-budget horror movie. And the reason that it's doing so well at the box office, this is what really struck me, and I'm not the first person to observe this, absolutely not, but it's so clear. it triggers the deep-seated fears of young men about dating women.

13:58That's what it's about. And that's why it's working. And maybe we haven't seen a romantic drama before that is cast as a horror movie like this, you know? And the men in the audience were talking about it afterwards. They were really deeply unsettled by it. And this is the only... Straight man.

14:18Ryan Lattanzio:The straight man. Well, whatever. The only explanation for a movie chugging along like this while staying below a 40 percent drop off is word of mouth. I mean, you could talk about how did it open or did it have a following? Yeah, fine. But this is something that has chugged along for weeks and weeks and weeks. And while the two leads are fine, I don't see Focus being able to elevate this through the end of the year. You're right. The critics won't push it. And Weapons was a one-woman nomination specific to the extraordinary once nominated. Remember, she was in the zone before Amy Madigan, and she was well-respected by her peers in the Academy.

14:58So Obsession has none of that going for it.

15:02Ryan Lattanzio:Is it an Oscar contender because of its box office? Is that the idea here, that because it was such a cultural phenomenon in terms of the numbers and people that turned out for it, is that what automatically should make something a contender now? No, absolutely not. I don't. Also, it has to hang out all the way to the end of the year. It needs critical acclaim. The two actors are okay. They're good, but they're not that good. Did you think they were that good? I did not. I did not. I don't think the movie is that great. It was a B - for me. It wasn't a great movie, but it did its job effectively, obviously.

15:36We cannot criticize it.

15:38Ryan Lattanzio:Were you scared? Were you scared in the movie? I was creeped out when she's standing. This is the scene that everybody is frightened by when she's standing in the corner in the dark watching him while he's sleeping. I liked that, but I've seen that image in other better movies. Like, now I'm going to get pretentious, but the Kiyoshi Kurosawa movie Pulse from 2001, which has got a bad American remake. I think that that scene was directly torn right out of that movie. But I don't know that Curry Barker has seen that movie. Maybe he has. uh anyway speaking of oscars uh we may have a number of double oscar contenders this year now that the rules have opened up actors can be nominated multiple times in the same category uh for different films uh and i'm looking at the great sandra hula hula uh she won best actress at berlin for rose which is coming out this fall she also stars in fatherland these are two movie films.

16:35Ryan Lattanzio:And she could land a supporting nod for Project Hail Mary, which of the three movies I'm talking about, that is definitely her least interesting performance. She's also in Alejandro González-Noritu's Digger, which we're expecting to see at Venice and some of the other festivals. That could happen. Although, I mean, I do think the most likely scenario is the fatherland Project Hail Mary combo. In other words, best actress supporting. And then Penelope Cruz is terrific in a supporting role in The Invite. I definitely think that's going to happen, which could score multiple nominations, including director and screenplay.

17:12I think The Invite's going to be a very strong Oscar contender. Totally. And then we also have, you go.

17:20Ryan Lattanzio:Yeah, no, absolutely. The Invite has the best reviews of a major release this year. It kind of feels like... Well, next to maybe Project Hail Mary. Yes, yeah, in terms of a drama for adult audiences. But Penelope Cruz, who won, you know, for Vicky Cristina Barcelona, she's had some other nominations over the years. A really kind of unexpected one for Almodovar's Parallel Mothers, which she was fabulous in. So anyway, this year, she's really great in another Spanish movie, which is going to be the likely Spanish entry for the international feature Oscar, La Bola Negra, also supporting. So we could see her twice in that category.

17:58Ryan Lattanzio:She's definitely supporting in both movies. Now, what about Emily Blunt, who's in Disclosure Day and The Devil Wears Prada, too? I think she could get in for Best Actress for Disclosure Day. That's a pretty good chance for that. But I don't think for Prada, because that's the lesser performance. And Anne Hathaway is in Prada and The Odyssey, among other things. But she's like everywhere right now. But sight unseen, her role as Penelope in The Odyssey seems like the better bet. There's a lot of films yet to see, like Heart of the Beast with Brad Pitt, who also stars in The Adventures of Cliff Booth and The Riders.

18:39Ryan Lattanzio:Yeah, I don't think that The Devil Wears Prada 2 is going to be at the Academy Awards, to be honest with you. And also, I did see recently on Twitter a breakdown of screen time of all the roles of people in the Emily Blunt one. And obviously that would go supporting if it did. But I just don't. That doesn't seem like a movie that's going to travel into the fall awards season. I think it will, but not in a big way. In a small way. Maybe screenplay. Maybe costumes. Maybe cinematography. Some Golden Globes in there could be nice. That's a much more Golden Globe-y movie. You're right. It's very Golden Globe.

19:11Ryan Lattanzio:Now another one we have who's in three movies, Zendaya. She's in Spider-Man Brand New Day, which we haven't seen yet. the drama, which we have seen, and we've discussed her performance in that one, and also in Dune Part 3. And she's probably going to be Emmy-nominated imminently next week for her role in Euphoria. We'll see about that. Do you think that's likely? Really? I don't know. I mean, there are people, she's adored, but that season was not. Some people really liked it. I didn't watch it. Anyway, she probably will whiff on all three, because genre film sequels and a weird relationship drama?