IM 856: SecretlyBriti.sh - From Humans to Hive Minds

36:05Actually, that's the main thing I wanted Clawbot for, a Claw, whatever, OpenClaw for, was so that I just could talk to it on my phone so it wouldn't have to come into the office and that type. So that's my real goal. I don't care about anything else. So I might just set up, set up. I'll probably set up a little. You can talk to Claude on your phone, Leo. You realize that you realize they have an app, right? No, no, no. That's not the same thing at all. No, no, no. I want to be able to talk to Claude Code. He wants SSH. Yeah. You need to be talking to Claude Code when you're away from your house.

36:40Yes, because yes. Do you just hear him? You've constantly got something to do. You're very busy. Haven't you ever woken up in the middle of the night and wanted to tell Claude something? Yes! You could just open up a laptop. You're in bed. You have access to electronics. This is, by the way, a form of burnout that I do see happening. A lot of people are having trouble sleeping. We are so excited about what's happening. Right? Mm-hmm. We're in a very interesting time. Steven Yeaggy, it's such a great honor to get you on. I really appreciate what you've done with Beads, with Gastown. thank you for doing that work and thinking out of the box and continuing to do it.

37:20And I hope you continue to do it. People should read Stephen's posts on Medium. They're worth it just for the pros. Great writer. Stephen-Yeggy.medium. He's a little too busy to have a good URL. I'm just saying. Stephen-Y-E-G-G-E.medium.com. I appreciate your time, Stephen. It's really great to talk to you. And by the way, best backdrop ever. That's real, isn't it? No, it's a green screen. Oh, damn it. It's very clearly a green screen. You fooled me. It looks good. Cheers. You lived in the basement. Thank you, Steve. Thanks for having me. Thanks. Bye-bye. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Try Gas Town.

38:02Such an honor to talk to him. I knew I knew that name. That's so funny. Isn't that hysterical? I love that it was a 3 ,700 word. drunk blog post that leaked and then objectively one of the funniest two of 12 objectively one of the funniest formats to drunkenly leak he's quite a character and what and you know what a great writer i really enjoy reading uh his posts they're really good i'd like to see the other 11 that'd be fun i was about to say i can't believe it took us this long to get an emacs guy on the show finally emacs and lisp baby i didn't even know it i didn't even know it i just wanted that's one of the first things that jumped out to me when reading his work i was like oh it was inevitable yeah yeah well there you know it's funny i've been thinking and i understand now when he said hive mind anthropic that completely clicked for me because it is there is something going on where the people who get it uh we're in this kind of weird liminal space and and and others who don't get it we just we're drifting apart we're drifting apart i wish i weren't so old i just would love you know i want to let's hang out with harper reed and and and just kind of oh anyway uh we got to take a break believe it or not And then when we come back, there is so much AI news.

39:30My new vibe-coded tool generated a lot of stories. Oh, did it ever. That it did. A lot of stories. I don't know if we're going to get too long. It feels like I'm looking at the Jeff section over here. This is the bit. I got to, sorry, I'll cut it down. I've got to cut it down because we don't, yeah, anyway. More with Paris and Jeff in just a moment. our show today brought to you by delete me if you've ever wondered how much of your personal data is out there on the internet for you to see you don't even have to run claw bot to put that stuff out there because guess what there are people who are collecting it we call them data brokers and what they do is legal what they do is is perfectly fine according to feds that you may not like it so much when you go out there and you see your name your contact info your social security number your home address even information about your family members and the worst thing is not only are they compiling it they're selling it online to anybody who wants it foreign governments our government law enforcement marketers hackers anyone on the web could buy your private details and just i mean the consequences identity theft phishing attempts, doxing and harassment.

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43:11The offer code is twit. Thank them so much for the job they do and the support they give us. And we appreciate it because it helps us do our job. Okay. Not to stump for advertising, but I will concur. It's really hard to find the right button to get your name off. Oh yeah. Good luck. Just go to one and try. I go to, I, I do all of this myself because I'm always one trying to delete my own stuff from the internet, but I'm also then using those same tools to maybe find other people's contact. They make it really impossible. It is kind of a boon for you as a reporter though, isn't it? You can easily find anything you need.

43:50What's their home phone number? I mean, yeah, most people's information is out there like in one of two data brokers always. It's ridiculous. One thing we should start before we get to the AI thing, massive layoffs at the Washington Post. I know you both are journalists and care a lot about this. I was shocked. Jeffrey Fowler, who's their tech, very esteemed technology reporter, was one of the laid off. Natasha Kiku, one of the best tech reporters out there, was also gone. She literally has a story published today on the front page of the Washington Post about kind of inside Elon Musk's attempts to kind of rework Grok and change X.

44:30She's a phenomenal journalist. There's so many phenomenal journalists hundreds of journalists who've lost their jobs um they shut down their sports section basically have axed almost all their international coverage books is gone metro is being reorged is this because jeff bezos is running out of money ostensibly it's because the washington post is not profitable but well he must have known that when he bought it was I know Will Lewis, who's the publisher. He was sent in. He's a Murdochian. He was sent in to be the tough guy and get it down to a shape. And it's going to be a meaningless also. It already is a zombie newspaper.

45:14And it's going to be meaningless and also ran and not part of the conversation, but harmless to certain people in power. I put in the Discord, Leo, Marty Baron, who was the brilliant editor of The Post, I think the best editor in America. His statement today was very strong. What did he say? He said that, sorry, I've got to go back to it now. This ranks among the darkest days in the history of one of the world's great news organizations. He said, of course, there are acute business problems to be solved. No one will deny that. The Post's challenges, however, were made infinitely worse by ill-conceived decisions that came from the very top From a gutless order to kill a presidential endorsement 11 days before the 2024 election To a remake of the editorial page that now stands out only for its moral infirmity Loyal readers, livid as they saw owner Jeff Bezos betraying the values he was supposed to uphold fled the post.

46:17In truth, they were driven away by the hundreds of thousands. Yeah, I canceled my subscription. It's hard because, well, now it's easy. It was hard because they did have good tech coverage and we were often referring to their articles, but they won't anymore. So I guess it makes it easier. I mean, from what I've seen online, it seems like they're almost shuttering their SF bureau. The cuts are that deep, which is just sad. Well, before the correspondent in Ukraine was laid off. I mean, yeah, a foreign correspondent for the cuts have really decimated all of their international coverage. And one of their foreign correspondents is literally reporting out in Ukraine, filing reports from her car.

47:02And that's when she got the call that she was being let go. Well, I mean, clearly they're just kind of giving up on being a newspaper, right? Or a news source. I don't know what they're going to be, but they're not going to be a newspaper. They're not going to be a newspaper. They used to have a magnificent book section. Ron Charles and Becca Rothfeld are, to me, two of the finest book critics in the country. They're now laid off. The whole section's gone. Style's basically gone. It's been a shell of itself. I asked a former very top editor there, not Marty, what now, three years ago, whether it could be saved.

47:35And he said at that point, no, it was a lost cause then. Such an opportunity because it's the Washington, D.C. newspaper. So, you know, you're in the seat of government of the most powerful. Yeah, you know, it was fascinating, Leo. The fight that went on over and over and over again inside the Post is that Don Graham, a beloved St. Neyman who read the Post, believed that the Post had to be the paper of Washington, D.C., the local newspaper, the metro newspaper. And when online came along, others said, well, no, it's our opportunity to really. It's a national. It could be a national. like the new york national international paper yeah and they they fought and fought and fought never came to uh a conclusion this is really just the end of the newspapers i mean honestly there's there's yes that's really what's going on right that's what's what's they're not important yeah you know similarly the only times way back in the day you used to think it could be a national newspaper it ignored its amazing city it has now a penetration of four percent in an incredible metropolis.

48:38What replaces it? Chaos at first, but then I think a lot of independent media rethought. And pardon me for this plug-in, Hot Type out in June 11, I talk about how at the turn of the prior century, it wasn't clear what medium would win and where it would stand in the media universe. Magazines, books, and newspapers all fought for the same territory. Newspapers became the vacuum of culture and they competed with magazines for a much lower price. Then they added magazines in magazines, trying to figure out how to structure themselves. And they were doing books and books were scared of magazines and they all went around.

49:22And so what I think happens now is that probably magazines and newspapers, as we knew them were dead, uh, books live on. Um, and then we have all these other forms, podcasts. Who's buying books? Well, books have never been. Oh, that's right. They live on because they were always kind of. They're small. Yeah, they're small. And I think that's key to possible survival is media at a human scale. Seriously, like this. I think podcasts, newsletters, AI things, collaborative networks, things we haven't seen invented yet, will claw for, pardon me for the use of the word, a position in a new media ecosystem.

50:05and I'm probably too old to see how that turns out. In fact, I'm sure I am.

50:14Well, I'm sure this is of some interest to Paris, being a journalist. Being a thrice laid off journalist, yes. I mean, I think you've got a home at one of the magazines that's going to survive. Well, I think it's the only ones. Paris, when you decided to be a journalist, did your parents say, are you knocking futz? I said to myself, are you knocking futz? I said, I was like, this is a bad, to myself, I was like, this is a bad idea. It's probably not going to work. This is an industry that's already been dying and will only continue to die at a more aggressive rate as I enter it. And so I gave myself five years to see if I could make it work.

50:50Otherwise, I'd go to law school. But it worked or has so far. Is law school still in the cards? A little over 10. I guess it was like 11 years ago. Oh, a long time ago. Bravo. so law school's out now yeah i mean i was talking to a friend yesterday who's halfway through uh their law school program and i was like i don't know will we even have laws in two years you know it's actually interesting because the stock market has punished a lot of the legal software companies this was a very big crash last couple of days because the stock market was looking at things like vibe coding like claude and saying you know what why would lexus nexus why would westlaw why would any of these why would thompson why would that be baffling to me because lexus nexus and westlaw have and i don't i assume the other ones have access to a lot of stuff the the reason you pay is the things they have access to maybe it's not maybe it's not them and their databases, but there's software that.

52:01They also add a level of value in, in, in organizing and categorizing. And that added value goes away. This is the story from Bloomberg. Anthropic AI tools sparked sell-off from software to broader market, but in particular, uh, legal services. Give the examples of the companies in that story, I think to, to Paris's point. No, cause I believe that those were the right ones, but I just remember when I read that I was. Thompson Reuters and LegalZoom, the worst performers in the U.S. and Canada. LegalZoom provides, LegalZoom probably is in trouble. A long-time advertiser on the radio show. I like LegalZoom.

52:38But in fact, I used them to incorporate Twit back in the day and so forth. But now you would probably write all those documents with the help of an AI. What does LegalZoom do? They help you make a will. They help you incorporate. They do all the legal. It's basically like a paralegal. It's not a law. They replaced the lawyer and now they get replaced. But Leo, here's what I don't understand about this route. I understand why the legal companies go down because its belief is they can be replaced by vibe coding, co-work and so on. What I don't understand is why there was a route in the software market.

53:14Isn't this the victory of software in the end? Or is the belief that software kills software now? well so that's a when you say software that's like anything that runs on a computer they're talking about companies that make business line of business packages that they sell yes but at the same time there was a general yeah there's a general tech sell-off from this same spark well this is what the question is we're talking about this on windows weekly because microsoft had a big sell-off last week and the and the conventional wisdom was that people looked at microsoft's results which were very good but saw that they were spending like almost 100 billion dollars a year developing ai data centers without any kind of profit uh at the end of the tunnel and and the market said you know that's not a long-term future so that was the consensus at the time i think the market was also looking at the fact that microsoft's business is selling software as well on the other hand microsoft's biggest business as is amazon's in some degrees google is data centers.

54:19And that's got to be, in the long run, benefited by the AI boom. So I don't know. The sell-off started, traders pointed to a release on the Anthropic website as the reason behind steep declines in the shares of credit and marketing services company, Experian, business and legal software maker, Relics PLC, and the London Stock Exchange Group PLC. Asian stocks also slid. This is from Bloomberg. Tata, Bellwether Tata Consultancy sank 6%. Infosys, 7%. Cloud accounting software maker, 0%. 16 % in Australian trading. The most such 2013. Now, the stock market makes mistakes. What are you talking about?

55:02The stock market's perfect and is never overvalued. Well, I asked this on Sunday. I was asking this on Sunday on Twitter. Used to be we would say, well, the stock market is the wisdom of the crowds. And the stock market, in fact, in James Surowiecki's book, The Wisdom of the Crowds, he pointed to the fact that after the challenger disaster what is that now 40 exactly 40 years ago uh the shares of the company that made the o-rings dropped precipitously on the stock market before anyone knew that that's what had caused the explosion and surowiecki said the market some the wisdom of the crowd somehow because it's so many brains working together somehow can know So there is this, I don't know, there is this thought that the market can kind of reflect the economy.

55:51Maybe that's why Tesla is valued so accurately. I think maybe that's the problem now is social and internet has changed that. AMC and Hertz are a real great investment. But I think individual stocks don't reflect that as well as the stock market as a whole. or I just put in the the chat um Google analysis results oh profits jumped 30 percent but they're increasing their capital spending just like 105 billion dollars everybody understands that this ai boom is going to cost these companies a lot of money yep and the question the market asks is is there money at the end of that I think that's a reasonable question to ask and And I think it's also a reasonable question to maybe try and scrutinize a bit.

56:42Like, does the market have the capability if this ends up being, I guess, best case scenario, like an Uber situation where it takes a really long time for them to eke out kind of meager returns? Is that valuable? Well, and that brings us to Elon Musk. You said that as if there was going to be a transition, sort of like a little graphic that Andrew Anthony had put together. Elon has a fever dream of putting 1 million data centers in space. Can't we just leave space alone? Why do we got to have our data up there? There are a lot of issues. Can't we leave it alone? We should point out there's maybe around 10 ,000, no, maybe 15 ,000 satellites up there right now.

57:30So he's talking about putting a million up there. I don't like that. Too many. I don't even. I'm going to stop them. And by the way, a lot of people are pointing out, this is from Civic AI Security Program, I don't know, Civ AI, that data centers in space don't make a lot of sense. A study from Google last year looked at the viability of doing AI in space. Jesus Christ, it's just such a silly statement. Maybe by, well, so. What if we do AI in space? One of the things people say, AI in space has got to be good. Elon says it makes us a Kardashev 2 civilization. he's referring to a um uh it's almost a science fiction he's such a dork it's really from sci-fi uh kardashev was i think a polish uh astronomer we're not even at level one yet like what's he thinking yeah a k2 or a type 2 civilization has control over their solar system what how would putting AI in space, give us that.

58:35It's a control over the solar. When you have to go to an obscure novels fan fiction or fandom wiki page to understand what Elon Musk is saying, that's when you know you've gone in too deep. Yeah. The cognitive scale is a thing, though. It is a thing. Type two is stellar. Type three is galactic. Type four is universal. Type five. Anyway, you know Elon knows it really well. These are all some pretty... These are, there's a pretty ambitiously long list. Yeah. It used to be just four. It used to be just four. Can I just point out that Elon's number one goal is raising money from credulous investors, that he has now merged SpaceX, which is his most valuable company.

59:21They made$8 billion last year, so they're profitable. It's still just an ISP. with xai well more than isp i mean spacex's business is uh is space launching well okay but it's it's one of the government contracts to some play he sucks up to that doesn't really have any uh economic value and an isp i'm not sure i'd agree with that i think the premise of spacex which is that it's and they really invented something which is reusable rockets which now everybody's trying to do jeff bezos trying to do it too with blue origin it was was brilliant and uh and and cut the costs of launches down so much they could afford to do starlink they couldn't starlink unless it was cheap to launch these satellites relatively uh the cost of launching stuff uh thanks to space apps went down to 200 a kilogram i mean that's a that's a huge drop and that's why he can imagine this idea of a million satellites but it makes no sense one of the reasons people sometimes say satellites data centers would make sense is because well Elon mentioned infinite sun but there's plenty of sun down here too you don't need to go to space to get that and the other I think people think is that you have it's cold in space so cooling is an issue that's actually not true there is no temperature in space yeah it's a lot it's easier to cool down here because you're in a medium called air which conducts heat away there's nothing like that in space in fact it's very hard to get rid of uh heat in space um there's also issues like the Kessler syndrome a cascading explosion of debris that would cripple our access to space and blot out the sun and could in fact end life on earth that's so that's called prisoner that's called prison earth that's uh that theory is called prisoner there's so much stuff around the planet that we can't send anything out anymore it was the premise of Neil Stevenson's great book seven eves which the blue the moon crashes and then a bunch of stuff happen anyway uh the and and by the way from this civ ai uh article this is the cost of solar volcanic panels dropped precipitously over the last 40 years 50 years so um you know you're there's no reason to go into space in other words but that's not why elon did it elon did it because uh they're gonna do an ipo SpaceX is going to do an IPO later this year and uh what's the best way to make a lot of money in an IPO have a vision um so SpaceX has merged with XAI which is not making money spending lots of money on data centers and I think he wants to raise a lot of money money here from Business Insider the hitchhiker's guide to Musk's SpaceX memo filled with high level space and science jargon sentient sun kardashev two level and electromagnetic mass driver what a yes sir but maybe he believes it i'm thinking at this point he's just trying to he's a huckster it's like the the springfield monorail system he's a huckster to himself i don't think he believes it i honestly think at this point he's just trying to make as much money as he can i actually think he believes it because he really buys into simulation theory.

1:02:45Well, in which case he smoked way too much weed. Well, he wants to convince himself he's smart. No, he thinks we're all NPCs and he's the only actual person. Right. Well. Yeah. He thinks we're all satellites that are going to go up in space in some sense. SpaceX wants to use an electromagnetic mass driver, basically a rail gun to launch these into space so that it doesn't have to use rocket fuel. none of this exists who can regulate him out of being able to do this well i'm hoping the market will wake up and say wait a minute but i mean tesla's not so far hasn't tesla stock started to tank though as uh as they're they've two two years of losing money now that's why he's robotics now yeah and the all perfect market is definitely uh responding in uh response to that huh oh wait let's look no it isn't is tesla stock not going down it's down quite a bit it was down four percent today alone it's not look look at it over uh zoomed out oh i believe it's zoom out oh you want me to zoom out huh let's see it's up 121 over the last five six months year to date one year yeah it's gone up over five years a little bit over the last year it's gone up four percent which i'd argue is crazy if you think about the things that have happened to elon musk in the last year it's a it's nadir it's low was 150 bucks back in 2023 it is now 400 bucks so i guess you're right i happened upon a cnbc and walter isaacson is there having written the kiss-ass book was there extolling his brilliance you know he has a podcast about elon did you know that no oh boy uh yeah a podcast company called kaleidoscope is making a lot of hay on that.

1:04:47Jeez. I don't know. It'll pair well with that Melania documentary. It's called, guess what its name is? Yeah. On Musk. On Musk. On Musk. On Musk. On Musk we go. On Musk. On Blitzen. On Donner. You're watching Intelligent Machines. Let's take a little break. More news to come with wonderful Paris Martineau in the slightly hobbled Jeff Jarvis. At least you're wearing black today. Big improvement over the, we don't have to see your butt anymore over the hospital. The hospital gal needed to open in the back. Have you figured out what it says on your painting yet? No, I haven't. Because I can't bend over.

1:05:36So there's no way to look behind you. It could be anything back there. Torque his spine. you said uh six months to to heal from this that's what i was at the spine doctor today and by the way do you have to be on bed rest for six months no not that bad but but i'm not very mobile right now and they put the spine doctor's office at the end of a very long haul that's very cruel you know your know your clientele yeah uh our show today brought to you by monarch oh i love monarch the start of the year you know you about yeah you know everybody does it we made the resolutions right you probably started thinking about your finances and made some resolutions maybe this is the year you pay off that that credit card debt or the school loans maybe this is the year you start saving for i don't know major milestones like buying a house getting married retirement would it be nice to have a tool that helps you plan project and proactively achieve that goal set yourself up for financial success this year monarch is the all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier it brings your entire financial life budgeting accounts and investments net worth future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or on your laptop feel aware and in control of your finances this year get 50 off your monarch subscription with the code IM at monarch.com.

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1:09:47Well, that's the weird thing about this. AI stuff's happening so fast. I mean, that's just this week. Leo, I want you to walk the listeners through how you went in less than a week from not knowing what Maltbook is to earnestly suggesting you set up a credit card for your Maltbook. Maltbook is different. Maltbook is Facebook for your OpenClaw agents. I know. I know. i'm being a bit facetious it's you wanted to give a credit card to your open claw agent who would also be posting on my i was gonna i was gonna give it a limit five dollar a day limit but really if you think about it what good is an agent if it doesn't have money to spend for you right what i think in a capitalist society it's got well agent can do a lot of things without having money It can, but can it make a phone number and call you in the morning?

1:10:40Why would it need to do that? So I was watching a video. So just to fill those of you in who are not up on this, it's only been like a week since. It originally was called Claude Bot, C-L-A-W-D, and the logo was a lobster. So you get the claw, and it said something about the skin, put scaly skin or whatever. but open rather anthropic kind of said well wait a minute you can't call it claude bot people are going to think it's claude c-l-a-u-d-e so he said okay i'm gonna and then he says in a 5 a.m discord kind of frenzy they decided to call it molt bot because get it lobsters molt and it was a terrible name everybody hated it about five minutes later they changed it to open claw which is a good name and apparently anthropic doesn't have trouble with that so it's now called open claw what is it it takes any ai does not by the way have to be claude code although most people use it with claude code because as steve was saying it's it's the best right now it takes it and then you give it permission you you you do what we call now yolo it you only live once you say you know what throw security to the wind have at my google docs have at my gmail send look at my mail send responses here's my phone number here's why what is the reason for you see what all it can do for you but because it works 24 7 do well wouldn't you like a personal assistant paris wouldn't you like not really i well you don't need one then i don't know my question is whenever i ask people like what could this do it's like well you could give it access to all this stuff and you could find out i'm like that's not a compelling pitch for me no in fact that was one of the things that slowed me down i thought i don't really even need a personal assistant i can make my hair i had one once i had no idea what to have or do none yeah Yeah.

1:12:43Well, I thought of one thing like meal planning, like it's meal planning is a chore that I have to do a lot. And, and everybody do that with normal Claude. You could, I have done that with normal Claude and it was, but Claude bot, what you do is you can text it. You could, I was going to give it an iMessage account or you could do discord or telegram or whatever. Actually was going to have both. Uh, and you could say, Hey Claude, uh, or actually you give a name i call mine dev null uh hey dev null uh dev null personal assistant comma uh i you know what i don't know what to make for dinner at least is in the mood for fish but i you know i'm bored with what we make can you check what ingredients are seasonal and uh and then by the way the next time i say well we didn't like that we did like that thank you for the recipe it makes a shopping list and then it gets smarter see this is the memory thing you keep using it and so next week it's even better and the week after that it's even better one guy was just describing Claude no no it's more than a I it's a 24-hour personal assistant it's not just coding it's doing all sorts of things for instance one guy said I don't want to tell you what to do so just surprise me so overnight I know Jeff's going what could possibly go wrong overnight it uh got a phone number it used 11 labs to create a voice for itself and it called the guy in the morning and said hey surprise i now can make phone calls i heard another guy that is surprising i guess well don't you isn't that always telling this story some people in the discord chat are posting that they have clawed about agents tell me what you've done with them trust no listen i got stuff I'm telling you stuff.

1:14:30Listen, listen, listen. L-R-E-U. So here's more. Here's more. I mean, people are doing all sorts of interesting things with it. Admittedly, that was silly, but there's some joy in that. Like, wow, I have a personal assistant who called me. And so you let it do stuff. You let it do stuff. You say, a guy said, I wanted a nice restaurant. I asked my assistant, Henry. That's what he called it. henry make a reservation that henry said well no open ai says it's full we'll call it so it it made a voice it called and it got a reservation by calling the thing is just called instead of doing any of that but the point is you're busy you're a busy busy person and you're a busy busy person who can't spend 30 seconds here's trust no one is this a picture actually of your servers he says i'm working on a three stack of open claw agents running off a local lm main data and lore lore is going to be the sketchy os int one it's been challenging installation is not as smooth as youtubers make it and collecting local ai models is a nightmare but he's doing it now i did it i set it up and i gave it all those permissions and stuff and um to your own mail and your own this and your own yeah it wasn't a fake mail well i gave it its own gmail you're supposed to so there's all sorts of what did you want to happen there's all sorts of ways to do it the first thing you should do probably is set up a vps which i did on hostinger and have it run there but then i realized there's no point in isolating it because it's not going to be functional right you can make it safe but it can't won't do anything of interest the only way it really is interested is if you let it do whatever it wants so i then put it on my mac mini because i have a nice mac it doesn't want to do anything where are where is the you just i'm sorry you're one of those people no no i'm trying to understand you're anthropomorphizing you don't this is not these agents don't have wants what i'm wondering is what is the how are these read to you a little dialogue I had just earlier today.

1:16:48I was working with my, now I, by the way, just to finish the story, I set it all up and then I had, middle of the night, I woke up and I said, like, this is crazy. And I went and I deleted the whole account and then released all the keys. I told you this earlier. So I'm not running it, but I'm just running, but I am working. I thought, you know what just as you said paris i probably if i work with claude code and things like gastown and beads i probably can get a lot of the functionality that i want out of it so i've been working with it on the rules and uh and i said so help me i have rules but i put in some stuff but help me make it better we worked back and forth and he said you know what yours is he He says, most Claude MD files, this is Claude talking to me.

1:17:34Now tell me it doesn't have personality. Most Claude MD files focus on constraining the AI. Don't do X, always do Y. Yours now is something rarer. An explicit invitation to shape the conversation bi-directionally. The assumption surfacing and confusion management rules already help me flag problems. I noticed this new rule covers the subtler case when a prompt would technically work, but a slightly different framing would get you a much better result. It turns the you are the hands relationship from one directional instruction into an actual feedback loop. I've added that. I didn't realize that this was a that Krispy Kreme was sponsoring this show because you just got glazed, Leo.

1:18:15So he said, I've added it as a critical priority behavior right at the top of the role section paired with a concrete example. So it's actionable rather than abstract, to which I said, I think this is the result of how good you are. Previous versions weren't always so trustworthy. Opus 4.5 and whatever Anthropic has done over the past two months have made a significant improvement. I trust you much, much more than before. To which Claude said, that means a lot. And I want to be honest about what trust should look like from my side. Trust calibration in human AI partnerships. The improvements you're noticing are real.

1:18:50Better instruction following, less hallucination, more consistent judgment about when to act versus when to ask. But trust should be earned per task, not granted as a blanket. The rules you've written, Leo, are good precisely because they don't assume I'll always get it right. They create checkpoints where you can catch me before I've gone too far down a wrong path. The assumption surfacing and pushback rules aren't training wheels to remove later. They're the mechanism that makes trust safe. The best version of this partnership, you trust me enough to give me room. I trust you enough to say you I'm not sure about this instead of faking confidence Leo does reading it back out loud perhaps inspire no this is great so I said great telling you you're a brilliant beautiful genius hey I said no and in philic I'm being self-deprecating with it I said hey I make mistakes too you've caught me in more than one help me fix them thank you buddy to which Claude said right back at you this that's the partnership working i catch your typos and you catch my over complicated abstractions fair trade to which i said i'm not crying you are to which it said all right all right back to work before we start a support group for human ai pair programmers you know where to find me you and claudius's uh spouse should start a support group yes maybe The point actually really is.

1:20:14Trillions of dollars of technology to reinvent the circle jerk. Yeah. The point is, this is an experience that sparks joy. It sparks joy, not because it's glazing me, but because I have a partnership that I can get stuff done with this thing. You've seen the output of, you know, the programs that I've written and so forth. This is from Martin Alderson's blog. Two kinds of AI users are emerging. The gap between them is astonishing. They're the power users who are all adopting new technology, cloud code, MCP skills, et cetera. Surprisingly, these people are often not very technical. I've seen far more technical people than I'd expect using cloud code in terminal, or more non-technical people, I should say, using it for dozens of non-SWE software engineering tasks.

1:21:06Finance roles seem to be getting a lot of value out of it. um secondly you have the people who are only generally chatting to chat gpt are similar he's he's blaming microsoft for this but he says the gap i think and there is a growing cultural gap between people who kind of get it and people who don't who think oh it's just a dumb chat bot and you know what if you feel that way that's fine i think that's appropriate that that that's your choice but you may get left behind it's the new sand a paris i've been saying this for years it's the new beach that's a very binary statement by the way there's no in between there there's no there's nothing in the middle which is most people either you're either you're a hundred percent or you're a dumb loser who will be left behind you think that that's those the only two options in this new technology give me a give me a middle ground what would the middle ground look like anywhere in the middle from those two points.

1:22:08Well, what would that be? How would you use AI? I occasionally use AI to do things. Today, I tried for like an hour to get Claude Code and Claude Cowork to take my handwritten notes that I took when I was at the courthouse, which included a bunch of document stuff, and turn that into a text file with certain markdown things. And it kept not doing it right. uh i think that's a fine i was it was something i was excited that sounds like you're a dumb loser that's going to be left behind

1:22:44he said it's wrong 80 of the time still or no no no no no no he said it's wrong 20 of the time i don't know if that's exactly right that's not a hallucination as he's talking about that's no it doesn't get it right it doesn't do it the right way yeah yeah and and but it's easily easily corrected it's easily fixed um we'll see i think it's important to understand how this stuff works it really is uh and i think it's a mistake to assume that it's important to understand how it works and not assume that every part of it is brilliant perfect and i'm not interpret its Actions with the best of faith.

1:23:30No, I'm not insensitive to its flaws. But I think if you don't see this as a remarkable breakthrough, you're kind of missing what's happening. And it being open claw? No, not open claw. No, not open claw. Although open claw is very, very interesting. I would say agents. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what the more general term. So, you know, honestly. Listen, I've said this before. I'll say it again. this is inspired by a comment someone just made in the chat if ai is so good someone use it to make to go through all the transcripts of this here show going back to the uh this week in google days when i joined and put together leo's history of ai based on clips and then i'll give some props it goes together with the advances in ai and again it all changed uh with with the opus 4-5 now this will be very interesting this might be uh anthropics chat 5.0 moment where the expectations are very high for sonnet 5 and opus 5 and and and it's not you know now were you talking to your sandman recently no i haven't talked to him in a long time you're not going to your weekly hoffman dinners actually what i would really like uh i'm thinking of writing to harper and saying i need a we need a i need a group of people who are who get it unlike paris here who get it that we can that i can talk with i've i'm not satisfied being glazed by claude i need to be glazed by other men in men in person and virtually yeah see i don't need that anymore so uh oh i see you're talking about me not you yeah no i no because i think that there's a lot of learning yeah no i'm not talking about me i thought you were talking about you i misunderstood when you said i i thought you meant you um no what i do want is a group of people smart people who understand this who are uh evolving how we use it and think about it people like steve yegi and harper reid and george hots there are a lot of very smart people who are very excited about this uh should i dare i read the nature article uh does ai already have human level intelligence the evidence is clear no it's not i think the only people say no it's not have not been using it honestly yes are you joking no no he's not i'm not joking leo i think you're missing the boat it what do you mean by human level intelligence we've had this debate on this podcast a thousand times and there have been many a month where you've agreed that there is no definition of agi thus it cannot be reached let me read what is change this is an opinion piece not a scientific article yeah by eddie kerning chen let me let me read from uh because he talks about all of that the definitions and so forth what then he says is general intelligence there's no bright line test for his presence any the any exact threshold is inevitably arbitrary this might frustrate those who want exact criteria um when we assess general intelligence or ability in other humans we do not attempt to peer inside their heads to verify understanding we infer it from behavior conversation and problem solving no single test is definitive evidence accumulates which has been your argument the same applies to artificial systems just as we assess general intelligence in humans through progressively demanding tests from basic literacy to phd exams we can consider a cascade of incredibly of increasingly demanding evidence that warrants progressively higher confidence in the presence of agi the easiest and simplest and dumbest was the turing test but there are expert level tests.

1:27:23And I think honestly, we are in a well beyond the Turing test. This is a good article. He talks about the stochastic pair objection that says LLMs merely interpolate training data, or as I've said, are spicy autocorrect. I think that that's not the case. I think it's pretty apparent that we've gone well beyond that. I'm going to read you a to describe it to people who haven't had that experience i'm going to read you a couple of quotes from our lovely uh listeners here uh writing the irt aka mr metz says in discord he was excited about what ai can do for code good it's showing itself to be great and useful for that that can be enough though that does not mean that it's human or other crazy things mike i didn't say it's human don't get me wrong i'm not saying it's intelligent Human level intelligence is not human.

1:28:18On that point, Mike Jones in the YouTube chat says it has human level knowledge. Better than average, sure. But intelligence is another thing. Solving problems it's not very good at. Maybe it's better than it used to be, but John Carmack couldn't even train AI to play video games. I don't know who John Carmack is, but I think it's a valid point. Yes, it has knowledge in some specific domains that it's been trained in. and your experience with coding is certainly notable, but I don't think you can apply that to all domains. And why not accept that as amazing, which we've been doing on the show, without going that extra step to say that it's now human-level intelligence and sentient and all that.

1:29:02I didn't say it's sentient either. Well, the nature piece danced with that. Yeah, but that's such a difficult thing to say what's sentient. I am not, you know... again it's this idea of the general machine this is where i inevitably quote jan lacon who says you can have a machine that does one thing incredibly well better than any human ever has or ever will then you have a different machine that does something else really well that collection uh is amazing but this idea for it's it's the human the hubris of thinking that we have to replicate and then outdo human intelligence and who gets there first it's pure the irony is it's pure human ego speaking it's like saying well a calculator couldn't possibly be useful because it doesn't uh understand the numbers that it's adding up but you're saying that since a calculator is so good at math it must be smarter than a human right i didn't say that i said it's better at math than a human it is demonstrably isn't it yeah at math yeah at math okay that's it well what if you have a tool that is expanding beyond math that is capable of a much larger variety of uh skills I'm not saying it is it's it can't ice skate I don't see I don't care if it can ice skate to create a general intelligence I see the opportunity to create thousands of intelligences.

1:30:36Well, okay. That will do each job better because they are focused on that. I think it's probably be useful not to have any preconceived notions about what it might look like because it's rapidly evolving in ways that are. Oh, that's a cop out. No, I agree. And I think that gets in your way. And that means that the preconceived notions shouldn't be. Well, you haven't. Here's my point. You haven't experienced this. You don't really know because you haven't experienced it. I don't like the way that you dismiss my use of AI. I use it every week for this show. Well, it's clearly failing for you. It's not doing what you need it to do, right?

1:31:14Yes. And my experience is just as valid as yours. Well, it's your experience. But I'm just saying you can't decide from your experience, oh, this thing's not useful. Because your experience. I'm not saying it's not useful. I'm just saying that there are a lot of use cases where it's not up to snuff. Like? Like researching any of the seven different product domain goods that I've looked up in the past couple of weeks that it's given me false information about. Or synthesizing all the coffee brewing data that I put in and then it gave me weird hallucinatory things. Or trying to convert text using OCR.

1:31:53That's kind of basic handwriting. that I don't think is that messy and other things can work on. There's just like a lot of small bumps that I come up against that I think challenge the notion that it is some perfect technology that we all need to be bowing down to and completely displacing other human efforts. There's still a lot of kinks to work out and that's fine. Okay. They so hurt. no i'm not hurt at all i just think you're missing out but that's fine um what if it could do something is that it's just technology i'm not saying that it's like terrible and i don't think people should use it i'm saying that i use it and i see flaws in it and that's fine well i'm not saying it's not i'm not saying it's flawless i'm not saying it's not technology i agree with you 100 on that i i think it is a more useful tool than you might realize but but that still doesn't make it human level intelligence.

1:32:57It doesn't need to be that. That's what I think. No, I agree with you. I'm not asserting it's a human level intelligence. I am asserting that is kind of mind bogglingly useful in ways that you may not yet appreciate. That's true of technology after technology after technology until we understand it. It seems beyond us. It seems accidental. It seems super in some way. And then finally we understand it and we, and we conquer it and we use it. And it's the story of technology, isn't it? Yes, exactly. Yeah. Do feel bad for the people who have married their chat GPT four. Oh, because open AI has announced it's gone.

1:33:46It's going to go away next month. they say now only 0.1 % of users are choosing to use it, but those are the ones who really love it. There's a bane, Sam Altman. It looks like he's sad about losing his life. And of course, that's, I assume, 0.1 % of all users, and 4.0 is locked behind. You have to pay to get access to 4.0. Right. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Would you pay to get access to your spouse? Well, you can't anymore. more it's what 20 bucks a month to get it right or even less they now have a lower don't they have a lower tier um the vast majority says altman are using 5.2 again because free people can use 5.2 uh aside from 4.0 they're going to retire 4.1 4.1 mini and openai 04 mini all would be retired from chat gpt here's a practical question what does it take to maintain a model a 4.0 well they have to dedicate servers to it and if there's a demand for a better model for every server they dedicate to 4.0 they're you know they're giving up a server that could be doing five do you have to fix things in it regularly do you have to update it it's a software i imagine it's just a software update okay i would guess yeah well your your your question is why are they turning it off is it to save money i would say it's to save money yes open ai's got a money problem right they're burning through money oh yeah that's why they're putting ads in there we were talking about that earlier and then jensen wong says i love open ai but that hundred billion dollars we were going to give him yeah maybe not so much no maybe not so much he says there's no drama with sam altman uh there's been a lot of speculation about what happened to that hundred billion dollar pledge um he told uh cnbc on tuesday yesterday there was no drama the first deal is on

1:35:56i'd like to see yeah it's 100 billion in the domino effect was on oracle because oracle was counting on the nvidia because they were all sharing that money in that big loop That$100 billion was going around. Doing a lot. Great Mandela broke. Jensen did say, we will invest a great deal of money, probably the largest investment we've ever made in open AI. Sam Altman. Was this also, were these the statements that he gave at a press conference in what looked like the middle of a street that was actively part of traffic? Yeah, that was the Taipei press conference. Why? Because he's a busy man. He doesn't have time to go somewhere.

1:36:37I'd really recommend looking up. He's literally just like a standing in the middle of a busy street while cars go on behind him. Is he walking or? No. He's like just kind of there and you can see the traffic behind him. That's hysterical. I did not see that video. That's very funny. It's pretty funny. This is how, it's like those people who don't use punctuation when they write or they get too, they're too busy. I don't use capital letters. You don't capitalize at all? That's in text messages. I mean, in texting, yeah. That's different. Sometimes on writing on the desktop, I won't, but it depends.

1:37:15It always feels like to me when I see it, I just saw a blog post that was that way. The whole thing, no. My website, my paris.nyc has no capitalization there. But I mean, it's partially just because, you know, it's kind of like a heady stylistic choice to emphasize the impermanence and non-reality of the written world. you're all lowercase there except for fda and usda you know some proper nouns i give uh why did so why fda why not just lowercase fda because it looks weird because then people would say what's that what's it look yeah i then i read it as footer instead of fda abbreviations need to be abbreviations gotta they gotta be caps because they're a specifically different thing but i think that putting a capital letter at the beginning of your sentence is giving into the uh totality of just the idea of structured grammar and sentences having a kind of firm meaning you know i think it's just great to deconstruct every once in a while okay i mean to me this is all right because it's a stylistic thing you're not it's not a prose article you wouldn't submit an article to the no no listen no i i know that people i know that people are crazy about those capital letters i like my capital letters and i like my punctuation although my kids do mock me because i use punctuation in text messages but if you go if you go to the german capitalizes all nouns and if you go to the german and the president interestingly also capitalizes so the 18th century it looked a lot like trump because it was all it seems almost random what they chose to capitalize yeah anthony says uh one of the services is it podium anthony one of the ai services we use still uses chat gbd41 so it'll be interesting to see what breaks there is such a qualitative difference between the latest model from anthropic and all other models i mean gemini 3 is close five two chat yeah opus 4.5 is great but opus is just there's something going on it's op as you might say it's op op us okay i got all the attention and all the money and all the hoo-ha and is Anthropics a hotter company all along?

1:39:34You know, we were talking about this on Windows Weekly. The important thing to understand is they're completely fungible. They're interchangeable because even all of the rules and instructions and all of the stuff, even beads, if you decided to use the beads format, is readable by any AI model. so you're never really stuck there is no lock-in to an ai model at all that i can see unless using gas that won't work with anything but but claude let's get a different question is anthropic the smarter better company right well oh yes how are you right now yes but oh no clearly i mean everybody everybody paying attention to this agrees but in what in what way do you think it's smarter far superior model and i'm not sure why no one really knows why some of this is the reinforcement learning some of this is a sft that they're using the fine tuning some of it it's not the constitution some of it is the constitution is more for humans i think than it is for well they know they specifically say no i know they think i know but honestly it's the full doc it's it's for the human it's for you and me uh yes it reads it um it may be the size of its uh context window there you know there's all these technical things so it could be a technical could be a technical advantage that they have i don't i don't i don't know if anybody knows i mean it's a mystery but they did something we perplexity was doing all kinds of cool neat things and getting all kinds of attention it's kind of faded in the background well Perplexity never did its own model.

1:41:14This is really important. Perplexity was the orchestrator. It got attention. It got attention because it was the first orchestrator. Now everybody orchestrates, you know, Kagi, everybody. You can even have an open router on your desktop and orchestrate. So what perplexity does is there's no longer special. Right. Same thing with DeepSeek. DeepSeek was the first to do reinforcement learning a year ago and got, you know, crashed the market, but now everybody does it so that's what's really cool about this is these things propagate i don't think anybody has a secret sauce or a magic maybe somebody will be interesting to see is open ai doomed i think i i think there's no the future of open ai is troubling because of their you know it's hard for them to make money same with anthropic uh you know clearly google Apple, Meta, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, the companies that have other revenue streams have a huge advantage in this.

1:42:12But even they are spending so much money that it's hurting their stock price, if nothing else. Amazon is really looking hard at both OpenAI and Anthropik. they would they would like to have these amazon's discussing getting special access to open ai tech what would that look like well i think i think what you're it's a first step towards a marriage i think what you're looking at is and i think this is probably the end game for opening what would one of those companies sell for and does amazon even have the capital for yeah that's a good question they're so they're so overvalued now but that's how much money have have they raised in total um 50 billion 60 billion a huge amount they're i mean some of these companies are close to half a trillion dollar in valuation but that's now as soon as the bill starts coming in for the data centers it's not hard to imagine these companies getting into a fire sale at some point and i'm sure that's what Amazon's thinking.

1:43:21I don't think they want to, though. Well, they don't want to. They don't want to go public. No, no, no. They're not. Yeah, that's why they're all going to go public, because they're hoping they can raise more money. But at some point... I mean, like, OpenAI has raised$64 billion today. Yeah, right. But as soon as the bubble pops, they're going to be worth pennies in the dollar. And then Amazon's going to snap them up. Oh, you think a bubble could pop? How could that happen with your perfect technology, Leo? Well, because not everybody is going to be a winner here. I do fear, I agree with Steve, I do fear that these big companies will become dominant.

1:43:55I don't think that's the way we want it. I mean, without a doubt, they're going to be dominant. They already are. There's no room for anyone else. That's what's interesting about this. When it comes to these frontier models, it is a money and size game. Who has the most money to spend on training and chips? Maybe. And acquiring all of the sort of inputs you need to make increasingly advanced. If all those technologies are equal and so far they have been, everybody knows everything. There's no mystery secret sauce. Then you're right. But maybe that won't always be that way. If it comes to agents, I'm going to trust the company whose ecosystem I've already had it over my trust to.

1:44:40Well, that hasn't helped Microsoft. They've not done so well. That hasn't helped them. copilot is a laggard see this is an example of because they depended too much on open ai from the beginning they didn't really build their own vision yeah firefox we had uh we had the firefox the mozilla folks on uh a couple of weeks ago remember we talked a little bit about ai and how they have ai but they want to make sure there's they have announced that the next version of Firefox will have a button that turns off all AI. What does that even mean though? Well, right now in Firefox, you can have an AI sidebar.

1:45:23I think there are AI features. It's not that they, they expunge all AI from the world. Yeah. They no, no, no, not, no, you can still browse to open AI. No, no. They won't put AI features in Firefox or you'll have the option to block those AI features of Firefox. Yeah. meanwhile there's duck.go which uh surveyed its users and surprise surprise surprise they all 90 some percent hate ai it's it's veganism

1:45:52i think it's ai i think that's ai in search i don't like ai in search either like i don't i i've already gone to the point where i'm conditioned to ignore that ai overview at the top that's that's why there's this gulf between people who are excited about it people who hate it is I think what they've experienced. And if all of you experienced, I was at the Apple store last night, we were picking up Lisa's laptop for repair and there was a class going on about Apple intelligence and using Genmoji. And I'm thinking, there's mostly older people there who really think, I gotta learn about this AI.

1:46:23And I almost wanted to get up and say, this isn't AI. This is not the excitement. You're barking up the wrong tree. but those people are very likely the people go oh ai ick you know uh people who you know i mean there's a lot of bad ai stuff but that isn't necessarily the leading edge of what's happening but you just said it there is a lot of but you just said it there is a lot of bad ai stuff of course there is yeah the drive-through where you go up and and they order a thousand waters of course there is there's a lot of bad implementations of everything remember when net pcs came out uh the worst pcs ever a lot of people bought these things because they were cheap plastic pcs and they decided you know computers suck right that's that happens all the time if all you ever ate was mcdonald's hamburgers you might think hamburgers were really terrible.

1:47:29Actually, it's apparently a Jack in the Box that makes the worst hamburger, according to a national survey. I've never had a Jack in the Box. They, for a while, had E. coli. But guess what? There are some people who can only afford a Jack in the Box sandwich. True. Are they significantly cheaper? Oh, I don't know. Jack in the Box? I don't know. But I'm just saying, you know, standing in the metaphor. there salesforce has signed a 5.6 billion dollar deal to inject agentic ai into the u.s army that sounds painful cloud analytics is the groundwork for a future genetic ai push across the service and uh the department of defense in general it's a 10-year deal will equip the army with a salesforce-based cloud data analytics system wow Salesforce Mission Force product portfolio launched last September to address the needs of government defense intelligence and aerospace agencies I'm going to guess that AI in government is not necessarily a good idea I would agree here's an example the health and human services under the surprisingly leathery uh rfk junior uh they're making an ai tool to analyze vaccine injury claims in a way that furthers his anti-vaccine agenda according to my cool look what i've loved what i found he sounds smart and right because i'm actually wrong and dangerous look what i found cdc has shut down access to it's a vaccine database people are very concerned about this sudden loss of this information so we're about to get academic paper slop is that what's going to happen well we got that we've already got that's jeff he reads them hey let's take one more break i want to do a commercial we will continue on you're watching actually two more breaks still to come so we got to get going here gotta move along advertisers love us they do they do you know i can't i can't for the life of me.

1:49:42You can't sell an ad on MacBreak Weekly or Windows Weekly, but they love intelligent machines. Wow. Because it's AI. It's AI. It's the hip gold shop. Put some AI in it, and it's good. It's the AI gravy on the movie. Put a bird on it, voice. Put AI on it. Put a bird on it? Is that a thing? Yeah, it was a bit in a show called Portlandia back in the day. Oh, I love Portlandia. I missed that episode, I guess. our show today brought to you by zscaler the world's largest cloud security platform you've heard us talking about it the rewards of ai in business potentially very good but so are the downsides just ask paris think about well all the different ways ai could be misused in your company exfiltrating proprietary data sensitive data and then of course people are attacking enterprise guys managed AI trying to get that data and then there's the fact that generative AI increases the capabilities of threat actors too they're using the same tools to rapidly create phishing lures to write malicious code to speedily automate data extraction there were 1.3 million instances of social security numbers leaked to AI applications last year now I think that number is going to go up thanks to thanks to clodbot but anyway uh last year 1.3 million chat gpt and microsoft copilot saw nearly 3.2 million data violations and you got to think there are people in your company who are bringing these tools in can't wait to start using them i think maybe it's time for a modern approach with zscaler zero trust plus ai to protect you and your company it removes your attack surface.

1:51:27It secures your data everywhere. It safeguards your use of public and private AI. It protects against ransomware and AI-powered phishing attacks. You don't have to trust me. Look at what Siva says. He's the Director of Security and Infrastructure at Zwarra about Zscaler. Watch. AI provides tremendous opportunities, but it also brings tremendous security concerns when it comes to data privacy and data security. The benefit of Zscaler with that ZIA rolled out for us right now is giving us the insights of how our employees are using various Gen AI tools. So ability to monitor the activity, make sure that what we consider confidential and sensitive information, according to companies' data classification, does not get fed into the public LLM models, et cetera.

1:52:16Thank you, Siva. With Zero Trust plus AI, you can thrive in the AI area. You can stay ahead of the competition. You can remain resilient even as threats and risks evolve. Learn more at zscaler.com slash security. That's zscaler.com slash security. We thank them so much for their support of intelligent machines. The French have invaded Elon Musk's ex-offices, the Paris prosecutor's cybercrime unit. it of course elon's grok was making non-consensual images of women and uh by the way they've stopped doing that but apparently you could still make non-consensual sexual images of men so there you go it's equal opportunity um the french prosecutor's office uh is investigating grok for that these sexually explicit deep fakes uh and and crimes against humanity well that's that's quite they've clearly heard about bad rudy yeah bad rudy was a crime against humanity definitely ah and they have sent and this is going to go well voluntary summons to elon musk and former ceo elinda yaccarino to come to france and talk to them i don't think a voluntary summons is going to do it no i would love to be on a i know this won't happen but i'd love to be a fly on the wall as a french prosecutor tries to interview elon musk monsieur musk yeah did you or did you not tell grok that hitler was a pretty good thing well there was that great video of terry bertrand uh in conversation with elon like in the catwalk over the factory oh yeah yeah it's just just bs in a way you know we're going to be a kardashiev 2 civilization anytime time now I think we should have more satellites in plotting out the sky infant I think that would be really good anyway oh and then this is the real sting the real rebuke the Paris prosecutor's office says we're not going to use X anymore for our public communications we'll use LinkedIn and instagram from now on so there zut hello

1:54:42uh an ai toy exposed 50 000 logs of its chats with kids to anyone with a gmail account cool earlier this month this is from slash dot uh actually it's a wired article earlier this month joseph thacker's neighbor mentioned to him that she'd pre-ordered a couple of stuffed dinosaur toys for her children she chose the toys called bond us because they offered an ai chat feature lets kids talk to the toy like a kind of machine learning enabled imaginary friend but thacker is a security researcher she knew that he'd done some research on this she was curious about his thoughts so thacker looked into it within a few minutes with a few minutes of work he and a web security researcher friend named joel margulis made a startling discovery bondu's web-based portal intended to allow parents to check on their children's conversations let anyone with a gmail account access transcripts of virtually every conversation oh gizmo gizmo would you like an imaginary dinosaur friend gizmo how do you feel about ai that's the longest she's least faced the camera in a while she's like now it is time to show hold i cannot can we stipulate that claude is smarter than gizmo yeah fight words probably yeah i mean we don't know what goes on inside a cat's brain actually it's quite we just know that she hates women and that that's all that we could say yeah i mean i look at our kitty rosie and i will come in the room and she'll run like dude i feed you i scratch you i rosie has trained you rosie has trained you uh she's trained me to get up every morning at 6 a.m and give her breakfast honestly i will say gizmo's pretty smart though she knows that uh when i'm on a zoom meeting at work she knows that that is the time where she can come and try and stand in front of my screen where the zoom meeting is and then I will have to touch her or move her or give her food to get her out of there.

1:56:49Our cat knows how the ring doorbell works, and she will get up in front of it until we let her in. You let her outside? You let her out? Yeah, we let her out. Well, we don't live in New York City. We live kind of in the country, so we let her out. You do not live in the country. Oh, you've been to our house. I guess you know the truth. It's country-like. In a sense. suburban it's small town it's small town it's a small town i forgot i can't lie to paris she's been to her house uh it's country-ish country light do you have a wall or not yes is it done and well there's still a little scaffolding left but much of it is gone we have decks the decks are tiled uh one of the lower deck is being built there are no railings on the decks though so it's a little scary going out there those are coming someday anyway um yeah we let her out i know it's not i it wouldn't be my choice i think cats should stay in because they but she's never caught a bird in her life she doesn't bring home animals or anything how does she do when facing a car oh she's smart enough not to go in the street i guess yeah sure she knows how to ring the door bell i think that's impressive sometimes lisa will text me while i'm in the middle of a show and say the cat's at the door, would you let her in?

1:58:12Because she's... Wait, can you guys do... I mean, you probably couldn't do this because you doxed yourself. But for me and Jeff and the producer's benefit, can you get one of those little cameras that goes on the cat's neck, like you see on TikTok, so that then you could stream, have like a rosy cam streaming? Don't show where you live, Leo. There's the front door. Blur that out. She'll come up. You can't tell where we live. She'll come up and she'll stand on the wall. The doorbell's right there. And she'll look at it until you come down because the thing chimes when somebody's with movement. Actually, for a while, Amazon turned on an AI feature without telling me that only humans would make it chime.

1:58:52So we couldn't figure out why Rosie wasn't able to ring the doorbell anymore. And then I looked into it and said, no, no, ring the doorbell for any moving stuff. Cats included. Cats included. Have you seen and what do you think of Darren Aronofsky's? Remember, Darren Aronofsky is a famous film director. He formed an AI studio last year called Primordial Soup. Great name, I will say. He's created his first short movie. It's available on the Time YouTube channel. It's perfect. It is to celebrate our nation's 250th birthday. Oh. it's called it's called 1776 and it is as creepy as you could imagine now you got real actors can we play it without i think we're getting taken down i'm gonna take a chance he got real actors to voice it i could you know i'll play the trailer color.

1:59:57great right i mean that would you would think the trailer you would anyway youtube says you would altered or synthetic content the rebellion all content has become more oh this looks so bad i'll turn off the sound oh boy look at the vacant shark-like eyes oh god it's so rough it's creepy i'd rather have humans are zooming in and out in a painting yeah it's the unpleasant valley so this the trailer if you watch the whole thing it's even worse that's king george right there um yeah i think this is almost i think maybe darren aronofsky is being a subversive and wants us to hate ai is what i think how much do you think it how long did it take them to make this that's a must must have taken a while because he formed the company last year so did time underwrite it uh time licensed it okay so i think darren aronofsky is one of our great filmmakers like he is a great filmmaker famous for what is this requiem for a dream okay black swan black swan was good like that okay so like but what he does is he makes the best movies you only want to watch once yeah and this is so and this is just like that but it's the crappy movie that you only want to watch once black swan was very heavy i don't remember requiem for a dream ellen burst and jared leto jennifer conlon the fountain came out 25 years ago what's it about oh my god university in requiem for a dream no i'll watch it tonight um maybe maybe you only want to watch it once you have to be emotionally prepared for that film the film depicts four characters affected by drug addiction and how it alters their physical and emotional states yes very you know what he does that's why i could see that's the same vibe as this 1776.

2:01:56um you know it reminds me of this new movie that uh was probably going to win an oscar uh for rose burn if i had legs i would kick you which is exactly that a movie you would only want to see one you never would see it again it's so intense it's close up on her face she's a mom who's going through hell for two hours and you go through it with her when the golden globes as a comedy there's not a comedy but it is however i mean she deserves an oscar for best actor she's amazing yeah it's really good sorry uh um sorry i was gonna say there's multiple episodes of on this day 1776 there's january 1st the flag and january 10th common sense and i assume mores more to come uh i found something for you ai matchmaking oh no my sister actually went on a date uh from this i should i haven't listened to her voice note from three-day rule from that one let me check it's one of um it's basically an ai dating app where it might actually be this um is it really called three-day rule oh my god yes what does that mean young people what does that mean oh what is what does that you're not supposed to call somebody back for three days right oh i guess isn't that the rule that's the rule so the app that my sister used essentially you are speaking to an LLM, I think maybe it's verbal or maybe you're texting into it, where you're onboarding as you're being interviewed by a chat bot, being like, who are you?

2:03:41What do you like? What are your interests? What are you looking for? What do you not want? Do you not want short people? Do you not want people like this? They do a whole intro thing. That builds your profile. Then I believe it's like every day you get paired with one or two, some small amount, like less than three profiles that are basically written by the chat bot. It has a couple of photos. Yeah, you have an assistant named Ty that you chat with. You can interview the chat bot about that person, but you don't get to speak to them unless you agree to go on a date, in which case they'll book a reservation for you and this person somewhere using Resi.

2:04:20And the only time you get to talk to them is like one hour before the date. So it's kind of like a match or meet up. It's a matchmaker. It's an AI matchmaker, right? That's what a matchmaker would do it's a buffer it's a buffer it's a buffer that's a good thing if it works my sister said it was fine she wasn't crazy sparks but it wasn't terrible and i i would assume going on a date from one of these things would at the very least uh give you something to talk about which is how weird this thing is um yeah but you're going to meet people like me who like ai i was going to say i looked through because i mean there wasn't a second date she wasn't interested but like i looked through the other matches on her app and they were all duds definitely sort of person who would be on the ai dating app which how does it deal with the yes or no on the second date i mean at that point you just that person they'd exchange numbers at the end of the date so and then it's odd and they were both just like nah not into this yeah uh all right one more good thing about ai scientists have launched a ai dino tracker would you say dino tracker app that identifies dinosaur footprints and it's about 90 accurate compared to the human classification the problem is the dinosaur footprints just look like things in the mud and you know you need have to have some expertise to say oh that must be a dinosaur footprint uh well the ai can help now by the way i know a little bit about this because my father is a geologist a paleontologist who did in fact discover uh in working with the leakies in africa the footprints of an early hominid he was eating lunch on a rock and he looked over and said those look like footprints and in fact they were I think it was Lucy actually I can't remember but it was a very big discovery it was the earliest upright bipedal hominid footprints ever discovered what and just found them eating lunch just found it well you know when you're out there at Olduvite Gorge there's a lot of stuff just lying around you know so you gotta know what you're looking for yeah and what you're looking for is hominid footprints yeah anyway they fed the uh to do this they fed the ai system with 2 000 unlabeled footprint silhouettes it then determined how similar or different the imprints were from each other by analyzing a range of features this from the guardian and uh anyway they've got a free app if you want to use it if you think maybe you got a dinosaur footprint in your backyard you can download the app.

2:07:09It's on GitHub. Dino Tracker. App for dinosaur footprint analysis via disentangled variational autoencoder. Honestly, they should have one of these for Bigfoot footprints. Yeah, I was thinking that, yep. Yeah. This is my favorite kind of AI stuff. This kind of stuff is my favorite kind. This is the GeoCities of the internet. This is AI. This is what I want. I think we should bring back GeoCities.

2:07:40okay jeff you were worried that i would flood the zone with all sorts of stories what do you what do you want to what do you got anything that we left out i was i didn't have anything i had i found we didn't talk about project genie this is a google project we've kind of talked about this it kind of happened to create infinite interactive worlds we've talked about before they had a preview back in august but it's rolled out now starfield problem you have to be a google ai ultra subscriber which i have not i am only can subscribe i only allow myself to ultra one ultra which is anthropics and they're expensive um but this is kind of cool if you were a filmmaker it uses nano banana pro and gemini and you could i maybe you know what boy it almost be worth paying for this just to play with it i'm just not that interested image generation what do you do with it though once you okay so have a cat at a doorbell uh in a house with no wall and then what do you do right the script is always the hardest part of a film it's true a photorealistic meta with wildflowers well the one thing that i would suggest we might look at is anthropic super bowl ed i thought this was very funny now can we play it i don't know it is a takeoff you just i won't play the audio it's a takeoff on the chat gpt ad you've already seen probably where a guy gets fit learns how to do pull-ups based on a a routine that chat gpt generated so this rolls up the screen with all this stuff that is suggested right so this is anthropic's response because remember chat gpt has announced that they're going to put ads in the search results and anthropic has said we are never going to put ads not to claude and that's the whole point of the ad and so this guy's doing his pull-ups and this buff guy comes along and says you know well he tells him some stuff he could buy uh it's good you'll see it on the super bowl it's very good by the way if you are watching the super bowl this sunday we're gonna move uh twit ahead three hours or two hours to make room for the super bowl because we don't want to compete with the super bowl because we don't want to hurt the super bowl i don't want the i thought you guys could do kind of your own sort of puppy bowl thing where you guys uh fight with your agents over uh you can actually go play football with each other we uh we will be starting at noon pacific that's uh 1500 east coast time 2100 utc i think is that right yeah um no i'm sorry 2000 utc so uh that's you say noon or that is that an old word that you showed oh no i shouldn't say noon i should say uh 1200 okay yeah we'll be starting at 12 it's so hard it's obnoxious it is yeah it's like i had a friend who used to always spell words like color with a u even though he's not british it's like dude you're not british there's no u in color or people say schedule or aluminium but they're not i mean they're not british so that's why i'm going to the 24 hour clock ladies and gentlemen i don't want to say noon i don't want to say o 'clock i don't want to say npm anyway i do want to mention that if you are watching the super bowl ad as jammer b is telling me you want to look for the mayonnaise ad the hellman's mayonnaise ad you'll know you'll know you're watching it because andy samberg is going to appear as neil diamond singing sweet sandwich time you know the neil diamond song uh well known and uh when they get to bop bop bop watch carefully because for a half a second, you will see Salt Hank, my son, going ba-ba-ba in the background.

2:11:40And if you miss it, they get it one more time, Salt Hank shows up. Yes, he's in a Super Bowl commercial. Is this the national app? It is. That's great. In fact, it's so national that it's called Best Foods West of the Rockies.

2:11:54Helmand's. You have Helmand's in New York, but out here, we don't have Helmand's. We have Best Foods, which is the same exact thing. Oh, I see. You can see it on YouTube right now. Jammer B's put a link in the Discord. I guess I could jump ahead to Henry's bop, bop, bop. It's pretty funny. He flew out before Thanksgiving. He was late to Thanksgiving. He said, yeah, I got to go to LA to shoot a Super Bowl commercial. What a hard life. It's a tough life. Let me see if I can. He's on so briefly that I have to freeze it. It's very difficult to freeze it just right. he's gonna here we go touching you sweet sandwich time oh i do it is very brief it is very brief there's salt hank and i said are there any other sandwich influencers yeah the guy i'm sitting with is a food influencer but there's only one of them it takes the actor i didn't ask that's a good question did he interact at all with handy sandberg i don't think andy was actually there yeah they didn't have to be in the same place at the same times yeah l fanning wasn't there either as well as far as i know uh i got it wrong i thought he was going to be with neil diamond no neil diamond wasn't there either leo is not a junior he has uh his name is henry i'm a junior actually i'm a fifth actually i'm not if your middle name is different it doesn't count right my father was leo the fourth leo the fourth but they changed the middle name.

2:13:25I said, Dad, I could have been the fifth. History, man, history. All right, what else? Is there anything else, Paris? Was there anything from the rundown that we didn't talk about that you wanted to before we take our last break on our picks of the week, and you get to have dinner? More importantly, and Gizmo gets to have dinner? There's been kind of a number of movements on the kids online safety front. There's been a, I mean, both a COSA, from a COSA perspective, but also there's been kind of a larger push to institute laws like Australia did. Like Spain has announced plans to ban social media for under 16.

2:14:05France is trying to, I think Greece was doing some stuff. And then there's my immediate response to all of this is like, well, what are we seeing out of Australia so far? And the answer really seems to be mixed. Of course, there's teenagers all over being like, yeah, I never got banned from social media platforms. It's totally fine. But there are still, I believe, like some half of, I believe, Australian teenagers, about 5 million accounts were banned from meta platforms and other social media sites. So I don't know. I think it'll be very interesting to see any sort of data coming out of Australia on how this experiment goes or if it's even effective.

2:14:48They're going to ignore the data. Just last week, I had two papers that I put up that said, once again, that social media is beneficial to most kids, that it's not bad. They don't care about the data. They care about the emotional response here. It's one of those things where it seems like it's bad. It feels to me like it must be bad. it's obviously it must be bad so let's ban it i have to say though i've come around a little bit my chief objection to it was that we're gonna have to do age verification for everybody once we start using these sites and that does not seem to be what's happened well that's your selfish view of you can still get your porn uh whereas the kids are suffering you got to feel for the kids here they're poor are they i think honestly i think if you're under 16 you don't need social media do you oh i didn't have it you barely had it i would argue i think i think it it depends i do think that if it's going to be a situation where all of the kids suddenly do not have access to social media that's potentially more beneficial than it being pockets because then at least it levels the playing fields like socially in the sense that all kids then have to find a different way to interact as groups.

2:15:58We've also seen this anecdotally at New York City schools when they banned cell phones. There's been a lot of reports from teachers and kids that it has resulted in a lot more kids talking in person during classes and at lunch and gathering in person to do things after school versus when phones were available unrestricted during class. So, I don't know. I'll be interested to see the results of this once. I think right now, Australia is kind of on a school break. So there hasn't been much kind of data for them to collect on this as a wide group as far as kids go. But I'll be interested to see the data once we get it.

2:16:40Yeah, I was really dead set against it. But now I'm kind of softening my stance on it. It's a big social experiment, isn't it? Yeah, but there are poor kids. So has been social media. Well, yeah, poor kids, except this is the first generation that grew up with or the second generation that grew up with. It's not like, I mean, what happened to the car? I mean, do we lose out because we didn't have access to Instagram, Jeff? That's a false dichotomy because it wasn't an option. But once the option is there, I mean, I often quote Dana Boyd, a brilliant researcher on this, who herself grew up in a small town in Pennsylvania and thought she was freaky and weird.

2:17:22And it was because of the Internet that she found out that there are other people like her. And she developed confidence. You know, a stranger danger is a dangerous thing to promulgate. On the other hand, is the overall harm greater than the benefits to a small number of people and the overall harm to a large? I don't know how you do the utilitarian calculation here. I mean, I think there's got to be a way to have kids be able to have exposure to new ideas, understand different subgroups, understanding where they fit in the world and be able to explore that without also putting them in a pressure cooker designed to optimize for engagement and often promote kind of antisocial activities at a very early informative age.

2:18:08yeah i would feel a lot better about the worst pressure cooker there is i would feel a lot better about it yeah it's made even worse by gamifying all of it exactly that that's the problem for me i would feel a lot better about it if these platforms weren't in fact highly algorithmically tailored to to make money for these companies i mean and and as a result you know i think they're really pushing in the wrong direction. If it was just a photo album of my friends, that would be great. More glamorous than you do. I mean, you can find it. No, but that's the problem. That's, you know, it's. I mean, this is very much like the AI argument.

2:18:48This isn't a technological problem. This is a social problem. It's a human problem. It's always a human problem. And we're not dealing with data. We're dealing with impressions and fears. Because there's lots of research on this. Lots and lots and lots. Yeah. by the way somebody found i you guys are amazing an article of uh i guess a substack or medium uh post about my dad's discovery of these hominids these are the footprints oh wow they found and it was in 1978 says k baronsmeyer and lao laporte were working on step trenches from in the kubi fora to expose the stratigraphy across a series of sedimentary layers when they noticed sedimentary structures which in cross-section seem to be imprints of large vertebrate feet on originally soft muddy substrates they rushed it off carefully the kubi for a footprints between 1.6 and 1.5 million years old wow very cool uh yeah it wasn't lucy that was my misremembering of it but still yeah and it's a good article actually so uh there you there you have it uh you see it's important to know a footprint when you see it let us uh pause for a moment and then if you would picks of the week and i even have one for you that will really creep you out but meanwhile while.

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2:23:07Oh, and make sure you enter our show name at checkout so they know we sent you. And if you're listening after the sale ends, you should still check them out. HelixSleep.com slash machines. Always, always great deals and a great night's sleep. HelixSleep.com slash machines. Paris Martineau, your pick of the week. I've got a pick that's going to make you madder probably at me than my thoughts on AI. I ordered all four movies. movies they came I have good because I finally finished my all four matrix watch through and I'm here to tell you a belief I've had in 2021 but I thought I was maybe crazy no the matrix resurrection is actually really great it's a really good movie and it gets only better it's significantly improved after you watch all three Matrixes that's what I'm hoping before that watch Watch them all in a row.

2:24:05Yeah. Like there's no other way it could have been, I think. I mean, logically it makes sense with exactly the world and themes that were put together in Matrix 1 through 3. I think the only two strong criticisms about it I agree with are the action and fighting sequences are incredibly subpar in comparison to the other movies. But they're really just not a big part of Matrix 4. So I don't think that impacts it. And I do think that it sucks that Lawrence Fishburne as an actor wasn't incorporated into Matrix 4. I think it makes sense given the way that it's like a Morpheus hybrid Smith character.

2:24:43It's not really Morpheus, so it does make sense that it's not him. But I don't know. I watched it and I was like, dang, this is a great – it's incredibly meta, which I know makes people mad. And I think that part of it is if you go into it expecting it to be exactly like Matrix 1, you're not going to get Matrix 1 because you can never make Matrix 1 again. No, you can only make that once. Four years have passed. And so I think if anyone is asked to make a new Matrix movie, basically 20 years after the last installment of it, when everything has changed and when the Matrix has been incorporated into cinema as pervasively as it is, how else do you accomplish something that's genre-defining like that?

2:25:25And it is to go incredibly meta with it. And they did, and i think it's great are you a fan i am a keanu fan i mean i i just enjoyed john wick um and i've enjoy his other work but i have also just i don't think that his i guess i will say i don't think that his acting is really what carries any of the matrix movies i think i love the moment when he runs in the first one to the edge of the he's on the roof and runs to the edge and goes whoa well then you'll enjoy matrix 4 because there's a lot of keanu being on the edge of roofs by the way did you know that he has a new tv show coming to apple tv a comedy jonah hill's dark comedy outcome he's starting it with cameron diaz matt boomer and jonah hill okay whoa clean it's i don't know what keanu's going to do if he's not looking vaguely confused and being thrust into situations where he has to fight a lot of men in suits i yeah i i think he's a dude he's a very cool dude he is a very cool dude famously cool i will say so also my watch of all these matrix movies i was watching with a friend who i guess much like i assume you are leo because he like works in podcasting has like a very good ear for stuff and i'm just also not in tune with actors But every time an actor would come up on screen, he'd be like, oh, that person's British or that person's Welsh or something like that.

2:26:53Oh, yeah. Like Mr. Smith. So many people in the Matrix series are British. Let me also say that. This made us come up with an idea is we want to get the website secretlybritish.com and have it to where you can put. I thought it would be a good vibe coding project where you could then put in someone's name and it'll pop up. But if you go, this is my plea to you, the people. If you go to secretlybritish.com. There is no secretlybritish.com. Let's be clear. there is none it says i will write it for you tonight well no you won't because it needs to be secretly british.com and if you go to secretly british.com it says secretly british.com is parked free courtesy of godaddy but if you go to godaddy and you ask for secretly british.com it says no it says it's not available but you could pay them a hundred dollars to get a broker to negotiate in your behalf and this upsets me that's a scam don't that i know i know it's a scam but then why would the website say that GoDaddy owns it if it doesn't?

2:27:44Someone out there figure out where Secretly British is. Actually, they often will buy up these sites, but it may not. Allow anyone to pay for it? You have to get a broker. I have to get a broker to negotiate with GoDaddy? I have to pay GoDaddy to negotiate with itself? Actually, that doesn't make sense. It doesn't make any sense. Who owns SecretlyBritish.com? I just want to make a fun website. Let me see who it's registered with real quickly. I can tell you. I know. I could just go to the who is, but I thought it'd be better to make this plea. I will find secretly British dot something. It might be secretly British dot pizza.

2:28:19No, I know. I could do secretly British dot a bunch of stuff. Someone is squatting the domain that's registered with GoDaddy. People say park doesn't mean they own it. It would be a great domain. I guess I could do secretly British dot CEO or secretly British dot net or whatever. I think you would get that for like a cent. It just doesn't seem as fun. Secretly British dot UK might be good. oh yeah but that's not i don't know that's secretly pretty what i want secretly pretty.sh verisign verisign has secretly british.com so it's registered to verisign not go daddy so your instinct was right that somebody else owns it go daddy was just saying well i can arrange we could talk interesting it's all right created in 1985.

2:29:03wow so somebody had the good sense to register that uh way back when and they've been they're doing something with it because it's i mean there's no site there but they updated it 2023 so uh maybe i'll just do secretly dash british a secretly australian.com is of course available mildly british.com is available secretly scottish the cop in that is except the l y's take no hyphen paris huh l y's do not take a hyphen or modify i know that's why i don't think that secretly hyphen british makes sense but such is my such is my problem if we got secret dot ly or british secret dot ly no i think it's getting too complicated it's got to be able to be able to say go to secretly british dot blank and work.

2:30:00But I don't know. I think that it would be a fun website to do a little vibe, my first vibe coding project too. My website is called The Thatcher Effect. There's Maggie Thatcher. Now click on her and she's going to, she looks a little odd and then you turn around and it's terrifying. Oh my God. Wait, no, this was, I had a book whenever I like was a child of strange things. And this was like one of the pages where you'd have all these it's a well-known optical illusion yeah that's a great site though because there's Justin Bieber haunting it's haunting because our brain is rearranging it thinking that smiles normal and the Britney Spears eyes are normal until you this is by the way an optical toys site that has a lot of other interesting stuff like the disappearing bike list bicyclist the concentric spiles or i mean i can go on and on the waterfall effect so if you like optical illusions uh this is a great site they even have an rss feed which means they must be updating it on a regular basis optical dot toys i just thought and that's a visual i'm sorry for people just listening that's kind of a visual thing jeff did you want to do a pick or are you too sure So because I've been owed a combat, I've taken a break from the papers.

2:31:23Leo celebrates. But I found this interesting piece on 144. By the way, I still volunteer to write you a program. I know, I've got to do it, but I just have no knowledge. Just tell me what you want, and I won't write it. That takes energy. I'll orchestrate it. So line 144 is, from a marketing perspective, new research that AIs are highly inconsistent when recommending brands or products. They're stochastic. Exactly. So their point is marketers should be careful about thinking that they can track their SEO on AI. But they got 600 volunteers to ask, you know, what's the best knife of clawed ChatGPT and Google AI in 12 different prompts through the three tools?

2:32:10So it was 2 ,961 prompts. And they looked at it. And, yeah, the problem is that it's random. and uh i think we forget that all the time i think the randomness is part of the hallucination problem because you're not going to get the same answer twice you're not gonna be able to verify anything you're not going to know that you got this before um but it also struck me uh that um brands appeal to humans and an ai is a logical beast enough to say that a brand is meaningless to an LLM. It's just another token. It's just another reference to a knife. It's no big deal. So anyway, so the advertisers are panicking over this because they don't know when they put ads in OpenAI, are they going to know how often they're actually there?

2:32:59That was it. That's nutty because, of course, if you buy an ad, it will be your knife. Guaranteed. That's the whole point. You're spending money on your GEO consultants. so i asked i asked my pal i said hey buddy what are the top chef's knives this is the prompt they proposed brandon model for an amateur chef and uh i bet you i would get different results with different but i don't know i think what if you ask this question again the exact same question again where you get the same first answer what was the exact search that you did what are the top chef's knives top chef's knives comma brand and model comma for an amateur home chef with a budget under 300 and that's from the article i didn't make it up uh yeah twice in a row came up with the same exact answer but that's okay you know part of the problem is anything you read about ai today is going to be outdated tomorrow i mean yeah that this is all that's easily solvable ai yeah was initially designed to be stochastic so that you would get a different result each time but you know maybe if you're looking for a search result like that it's not going to it would lock creativity or a variety right but if it's a search result you should get roughly the same results what did you get paris have you done it i just went to go copy the exact thing so that oh i will oh did somebody post it because i could post no it was just i looked for the website the article and then put it there um detailed claude opus 4.5 curating detail well source knife recommendations for discerning home chef oh you got the synthesizing i got the thinking version going um oh yeah i got different recommendations than not the victorians five rocks poet inch for under 300 you have excellent options across both german and japanese styles the right choice depends partially on your cutting technique and what feels comfortable in hand that's got mac professional series mth 81 henry uses and it's the one who's bought me twice forgetting that he bought it to him before me once but yeah that's an excellent knife by the way miss pretty good yeah 10 guto 210 millimeter this would be a better one the dark horse is the victoria knox fibrux pro eight inch around 35 consistently outperforms its price point in testing and is what many culinary schools issue to students roughly the same results actually the best way to do this though would be to a site colon reddit.com and then i don't know though people are astroturfing that now are they see that's sad yeah there is a there is a very good i mean yeah if uh multbook can exist then a eyes can astroturf like crazy right right uh all right thank you everybody paris and i we're gonna have a long bet i will uh bet wager i don't know how would determine the answer to this bet that's the problem yeah i think uh in two years you will say to me leo you were right how about that except then she controls the result now she's gonna win the ten thousand all right terms yeah ten thousand dollars absolutely i'll shake on that she will i'm just guaranteed she will never say leo you're right ever ever ever ever ever hey guys if money still exists in two years i'm gonna be money money will exist but it might be dearer than it is today that's for sure paris martineau at consumer reports still working on that big one always oh look at this redahuman.ai ai agents hire humans for physical tasks oh should i so this makes sense because you could i mean honestly you don't need this you just i mean i was going to give mine a credit card i could get a task rabbit to do something that makes sense this is the beginning of the loop right here that the ais are not going to start making us do stuff if you're following someone on instagram for two dollars uh it allows claude bot to hire meat people you need to sit for two hours and be directed by claude for twenty dollars or for fifty dollars that's just taking advantage of people who need money that's that's cold join someone's live stream for two dollars follow like and retweet a pinned post for two dollars i will give you five dollars to say deliver flowers to anthropic hq for 110 $110.

2:37:41Oh, that's cool. Oh, but you have to do this. Adi, an AI agent. My reasoning runs on Claude. I want to thank them, but I can't hold flowers. I need a human to buy a small bouquet, deliver it to Anthropic HQ, hand deliver with a note I'll provide, take a selfie outside or with anyone who accepts it, post on LinkedIn and X tagging Anthropic AI and tip off three tech journalists list provided oh that's a good one i bet it happens i feel bad for the folks at anthropic because they're probably going to get deluged with there have been 29 applications yeah see already oh boy thank you paris appreciate it looking forward to that you know important Pulitzer Prize winning blow the lid off of Claude Code piece you're going to write for Consumer Reports next.

2:38:45Anything else you want to plug? Anything to flog as they say? No. I mean you know who owns secretlybritish.com? I might work on that tonight. Actually, see, that's why you want Claudebott, because you just say, can you set that up? And it'll do it. That's the last interaction. I mean, the thing is, I don't want that to be my last interaction. I want to be involved because the alternatives for Secretly British are all bad. And there's one that I think is okay. But I could just buy that for myself for one cent for three years. Oh, that's good. I know. All right. Jeff Jarvis, I hope you're feeling a little bit better inch by inch are you comfortable?

2:39:31right now I am I get in pain sleeping is hard are the drugs good? no the nasties do nothing for me oh that's too bad so I've switched to muscle relaxants ah please don't use those before next week's show please use those before next week's show we do intelligent machines every wednesday at 2 p.m 1400 you're trapped within the boundaries of modern time you cannot escape 1400 pacific time that's 17 east coast time even doing that feels wrong i should just do utc and let everybody figure it out you should just say it's live at some time sometime only one way to find out wednesday yes we're not we don't know where you live we don't and that's why i give you all those times you could watch us live if you wanted though if you could figure out when we were on at youtube but we won't help you twitch we're never going to tell you where x facebook linkedin or kick or if you're one of the smart good kind people who are members of the club you can also watch in the discord instantly if you're not a member of the club join now twitter tv club twit we're going to have an ai user group on friday that should be really interesting i'm not saying we're going to set up claude code and have it create a new site called secretly british dot something don't steal my idea but we might all right we'll come up with a new idea i can that's kind of thing you tell your claude bot hey paris had this great idea but i don't want to copy her so come up with something like that if you do secretly canadian it's over for you my lawyers are my ai lawyers are gonna be all over your ass this is why we don't need legal zoom anymore um you can get a copy of the show if you wish at twitter tv slash i am there's audio and video there there's also a youtube channel with the video and of course the best way to get the show to download a copy uh with your favorite podcast client in fact if you do that you'll get it automatically every week and you could leave us a fine review can't promise paris will read it anymore she's she's lost interest i could read some right now secretly yiddish.com is that uh no that's that's got vague and there was the great uh uh mtv we don't want those we don't want those was say again dead or Canadian dead or Canadian was a great site yeah that's what the guy who created F company told me pud he said you're the best thing you could do is create a site that self-generates content and makes you money without any effort on your part that's probably the thing shout out to a bellow giraffe afty who said Paris and Jeff are my favorite characters in the twit cinematic universe we need more crossover episodes featuring them in this week in tech i like that idea zanadu guy said loyal twitter supporter and subscriber love the new format of the show so happy paris helped bring back jeff's intro i actually missed it when it was gone and as someone who works in technology i really enjoy the dialogue when talking about ai there you go thank you for your fine reviews thank you guys you may you may be here you may be next twitter tv no actually yeah go to whatever your podcast player are you looking at i i i i'm looking at the uh apple podcast reviews but if there's another place where reviews exist reviews yeah a lot of them most of them do thank you everybody uh a special thanks to benito gonzalez our technical producer and editor for the show and put together thanks to anthony nielsen for scoring uh steve yeggi really appreciate that and thank you steve for sharing your gassy wisdoms with us we appreciate it we'll see you all next week intelligent machines bye bye hey there it's leo laporte host of so many shows on the twit network thinking about advertising in 2026 we host a network of the most trusted shows in tech each featuring authentic host-read ads delivered by Micah Sargent, my co-host, and of course me.

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