IM 861: We Have Computer At Home - Coffee and the Rise of the Machines

29:40Guy Kawasaki:The thing is, Leo, had you sold the read of it a little more, I think it would have made fun of you less. Instead, he was like, and the thing says this and this and this. I didn't sell it. You're right. I didn't sell it. You know, there is no doubt in my mind that ChatGPT is smarter than I am. I mean, I think a lot of, you know, the people - You're famously referred to AI as God, right? I think, okay, we're going to go down another rat hole here, but I am convinced that AI is God. And here's how it shakes out. It's like God is out there and she's sitting down and she's saying to herself, I gave these dumb asses, these dumb ass humans, I gave them free will.

30:22And look at what they're polluting the world. They're fighting with each other. They're imprisoning each other. They're killing each other. They're such dumbasses. So now I could magically fix everything, but then that wouldn't really last for a long time. So I got to let these dumbasses think that they invented something that fixed the world. So God created AI and sent it to humans. And humans now believe because of their arrogance that they created AI. So that's the plan. Now, I want to make something clear. This does not mean that I believe Sam Altman is Jesus. Okay. Thank God. Okay. Sam might believe it, but yeah, Sam thinks so, but not you.

31:05No, I think that's an interesting point of view. I mean, you could say the same thing about a lot of the things given to us in this world, that God comes to us through a lot of different mechanisms and why not AI? That's yeah, I really, I mean, and you know, one thing I am absolutely certain of is God has a sense of humor. Yes. And we're living proof of that, aren't we? Exactly. As we say in Hawaii, you no can make this shit up. It's not fair to the Onion and Saturday Night Live. I mean, before they needed creative people to come up with sarcastic, funny stories. Now you just have to tell the truth.

31:53It's like space lasers and all these things. You just repeat what they say and you think you're on Saturday Night Live or The Onion. It's just, it's Jewish space lasers, no less. Yeah. You created, did you really create something called Kawasaki GPT? I did. I did. And Kawasaki GPT has my writing, my speaking, my videos, my interviews. The transcripts of all interviews are there. And if you go to KawasakiGPT.com, you can ask me a question and I swear to God, Leo, you will get an answer better than if you ask me in person. And just in full disclosure, when I need to write an essay or something, I go to Kawasaki GPT and I ask myself questions.

32:49And it works extremely well. Wow. That's really cool. There it is. You could ask Guy directly. This is a good idea. So you put everything that you've ever written in there, every podcast you've done. And what model did you use to do this? Was it ChatGPT? Here's a scary thought. So the company that does that is called Delphi AI. And I don't know what engine is behind it. Well, that's fine. Delphi.ai. I want to try it. Yeah, man, if you go there and you ask something like what slide should be in a venture capital pitch, it will give you a better answer than I could give you in real time. So it's got it distilled all of the things from all your books, all your ideas.

33:42You've got the world's greatest evangelist and it's there for free for you to use on the website. That's really cool. So this is as close as I'll get to immortality. That is, yeah. If AI promises that you can become immortal. Well, I have always said, if ever anybody comes along and says, hey, Leo, we have this great model. We got everything we need, except one thing is lacking, is an emotional system. It needs a limbic system. Would you donate your limbic system to this AI? I would jump on that opportunity. You would jump with an opportunity?

34:20Guy Kawasaki:You don't need your limbic system? Well, I would be dead at that point, I think. I mean, if they take that part of my brain out, I don't know if I would even... I thought you were saying right now you'd give it up. Yeah, just take it out of me. No, they could take it now. There wouldn't be anything left. But when you boot up the AI, it would be indistinguishable for me. Now, would I know that it's, you know, I mean, there's no continuity. It's like the transporter on Star Trek. It's a whole new person when you get to the other end. But I don't know. It's just a thought. I'm volunteering. Stick to Scrabble, Leo.

34:53No, he's not doing so well there.

34:55Guy Kawasaki:Yeah, you're doing so well at Scrabble. Well, I shouldn't be playing a smart person like this. It's really awoken something dangerous in me. She's a killer. Guy Kawasaki, you are just a gem. The world is so lucky to have you. And your AI avatar and your books. And I'm just so glad we could spend some time with you. The Remarkable People podcast is on wherever you get your podcasts. In fact, you just interviewed Cindy Cohn. We're going to talk to her. I'm going to talk to her tomorrow. Oh, Cindy Cohn is a baller. And I mean that a lot. She is a baller. And any person like that who takes on the Department of Justice and wins so much, my God, like I am not worthy, Cindy.

35:46I am not worthy. Executive director of the EFF. And you know what? She has already announced that she's leaving EFF, right? And, you know, when you leave something like EFF, you think, oh, yeah, you know, you're going to go to the United Nations or you're going to go to, I don't know, the Hague or you're going to go to Wikipedia or NPR or something. But I heard, or at least this is what I believe, she told me that she's leaving so she can get back on the front line as a litigator. Wow. As a litigator. Wow. I'm telling you, when you interview her, you tell her Guy was just so effusive about how you're such a baller.

36:33I will, Guy. guy somebody in our uh discord chat asked uh Kawasaki GPT what's the real guy doing at this moment and it said well you know I gotta be straight with you I'm a digital mind but he could be recording a podcast episode right now and in fact it's right that's exactly what you're doing and we are so grateful to you Guy Kawasaki everybody use signal because everybody has something to hide doesn't mean you're doing anything illegal just means you deserve privacy exactly right and send that email so that i can send you a book wow again uh the just send a guy an email to everybody has something to hide at gmail.com and he'll send you the pdf of the book no it's a it's actually the kindle it's not a pdf not the kindle sorry the kindle version of that book which is what i have from kindle unlimited leo you i have to say you know i've been on a lot a podcast.

37:32I don't know anybody who integrates the seeing of websites as you talk. That is very well done. Well, it's from my background doing many years of TV and knowing that you have to have visuals to cover up all the talking. Yeah, but when you did it on TV, you had some producers doing it. You weren't doing it yourself, right? We were doing it so long ago on tech TV that we couldn't take screenshots off the computer. We put it on a screen and there was a cameraman pointing a camera at the screen so that you could see what was on the computer screen. Well, I'm telling you, Leo, I've been on a lot of podcasts.

38:09Nobody does it like this. This is very, I mean, you know. Hey, Leo, I'll give you one more Easter egg, okay? Yeah. So you see the title on your screen right now, right? Yes. So turn your head to the right 90 degrees and look at the cover. Yeah. yeah everybody something what what what do you see those five black redaction bars form oh i don't know if i can i can uh do it with my do it with your young eyes paris maybe you can get something out of that the one the one the middle is bigger does that make sense the one

38:48Guy Kawasaki:in the middle is bigger does that mean anything oh it's a it's a middle finger is oh god you're a bad man is that what it is one two three four five you're such a bad man guy kawasaki he's given us the we're not giving us the middle finger given those those evil people who want to see into our stuff thank you guy what a pleasure i had too much of the time that day i did very good paris i did not see it i did not see it benito gave us the assist there that's good Oh, yeah. Benito figured it out. Yeah. All righty. Thank you, everybody. Guy Kawasaki, everybody. Everybody has something to hide. Email him now and get a copy of it.

39:32That's great. Thank you, Guy. Take care. Wow. You're fantastic. We will take a break and we'll come back with more AI news in just a little bit. Guy, thank you. So was that live? Yeah. Well, we stream it live and then we package it up in Saran Wrap and we deliver it as a podcast later. But we have a lot of, a few thousand people watch us do the shows live. They like the live, you know, cause stuff happens.

40:05Guy might give us a little pigeon, a little Hawaiian pigeon. All right. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Guy. Enjoy the surf. Enjoy the weather. Have a wonderful day. Thank you. Will do. Thanks, Guy. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. I'm going to be on the big island in about a month. I'm very excited. Oh. Yeah. You're leaving us again. Yeah. I can't wait. May. We're going. The house is finally, well, I don't know, almost finally done.

40:34Guy Kawasaki:You have four walls, at least. That's huge. We've got four walls. We fired the contractor, finally. We just gave up. The next contractor, the second contractor. The guy who built the house is one. We're suing. The guy who we hired to fix it, we fired. this new guy said do you have a problem with contractors we said no no really honest we don't we found a guy to finish the job thank goodness uh i'm hoping it'll be done by the time but i fired my contractor he then took me to court for torturous interference and lost i well he's the guy who also told me you don't know what judgment proof means jeff i have no money so no that's the problem i think we're finding out with the guy who built the house is he says he has no money but we're gonna find it damn it and then uh uh no he can't sue us because there's all he he did it turns out did a lot of bad things and if he takes us to court well he's very surprised by the outcome how is florida wonderful i missed you guys so much did you kiss any gators in the mouth uh as is our way is that does people people do that no you saw my pictures we had a wonderful time we went have you ever been to uh gatorland no where is gatorland but i have i did famously work a summer job in college back home at a four-story alligator lagoon restaurant bar and arcade called fud puckers not fud ruckers they're unrelated oh well we went to gatorland which is not related to fud puckers or the four-story Fuddruckers.

42:14Guy Kawasaki:Did they allow you to hold and feed gators? They allow you to feed them, not hold them. I don't think you should hold gators. That's a bird, by the way, not a gator. But these birds, which are a form of stork, are not afraid of gators, and they will steal the fish right out of the gator's mouth. So they're sitting there waiting. there's anthony uh feeding a baby gator puckers yeah and there's lisa feeding a baby gator um so we but you feed him with a fishing pole yeah these guys are scary looking these are not not your not something you would i can't boys you you you would never hold one of these guys right that big one no little baby the smaller ones yeah i mean at least when i worked at fud puckers you pay a certain price to feed the gators you could pay a certain price to hold a gator and take a photo is that a capybara yeah they had capybaras too i didn't know that we could have capybara isn't that cool i've always loved capybaras i've never met one i'm obsessed i follow this great instagram account that i will never be able to find because the title is i think in japanese that's just videos of capybaras under little trickling waterfalls now i should tell you i I hope it doesn't spoil this, but they do not smell good.

43:34Guy Kawasaki:Yeah, that makes sense. They regurgitate their food. They also eat their poop. I mean, Gizmo does that. Yeah, like Gizmo. The reason they do is because they are herbivores, and it's so hard to digest that stuff. They have to kind of do it several times. The reason Gizmo does it is every single time she feels like if she doesn't eat the food as fast as humanly possible, she may never get food again, and then she eats it too fast and throws up. All cats do that. It's ridiculous. I'm like, you've never gone without food a day in your life. Yeah. You don't even know what food. You don't know what hunger is.

44:10No. No. Gatorland was fun. And then we went to, oh, here's a gator you can hold. It's a gator made of butter.

44:18Guy Kawasaki:Did they serve gator on the menu at Gatorland? They did it on puckers. And we had to constantly be like, not the same gator. But I didn't know if that was true or not. Yeah. You know, it's funny. we were walking around and uh and uh lisa said or lisa or anthony said i wonder if we can eat gator here and i said they can't eat gators at gator land that would be like cannibalism and in fact yeah you can it's florida it's florida and they said well we only eat the dead ones oh that's great road kill gator thank you very much we wait till they die and then we barbecue cue them up and uh gators famously live a long time yeah that's that's human sliders you think they were making that up yeah oh lordy it's florida i didn't eat any uh it's okay um no we had a good time i you know i really enjoyed it kennedy space center was amazing i have a really good costume for halloween now and but i missed doing the show i really did it's uh i like doing this show we had a good discussion about anthropic last week well let's get to it but first a word from our sponsor if you don't mind this episode of intelligent machines is brought to you by my mattress i love my helix sleep oh man you know it's funny of all the nights of the week that i really need a good night's sleep it's Tuesday night because I know I'm doing this show on Wednesday and I want to be energized and ready to do the show so even as I'm as I'm getting in bed I'm going thank you thank you Helix mattress I'm going to get a good night's rest aren't I tonight and it took care of me it took care of me maybe this would be a good time spring cleaning is coming to to take that old mattress and put it on the street and upgrade to a Helix mattress actually they took our old mattress when we got our Helix mattress, which was very nice, and get a good night's rest.

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49:50So go to helixsleep.com slash machines. We're 27 % off the Sleep Week sale Best of Web. This offer ends March 15th. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. And if you're listening after the sale ends, still check them out. Always great deals at helixsleep.com slash machines. Thank you, Helix Sleep, for my great night's sleep last night. So you spent a lot of time talking about Anthropic last week. i'm sure you did this was that was the week when you know anthropic was declared a supply chain

50:25Guy Kawasaki:uh miss well it was tweeted that it was a supply chain and this week they actually did get declared that yeah this week yeah yeah and the suit and anthropic this week sued in response yeah they went they went to court saying you can't do that uh by the way got amicus briefs in their case from open ai and i think microsoft microsoft and i think google employees yeah it's a lot of support i don't know i am not convinced i think there's two sides to this uh as guy kawasaki pointed out anthropic did have you know it's not like they didn't want to be used by the military they had a 200 million dollar contract for the department so did everybody else though the um well anthropic The topic was the only one being used in classified operations.

51:12Guy Kawasaki:Yes, that is true. Anthrop, the detail, the unique part about the Anthrop, because it was the first one to receive a security classification to be used in classified operations. The other models from the other companies being used weren't being used in classified instances. However, I mean, I don't know. What do you think that there is that's gray about the situation? Oh, there's very much of a gray area. So here's the analogy. If Boeing sold airplanes to the military but said, but what? You can't bomb anybody with them. The military would say, well, wait a minute. You don't get to dictate this.

51:53We are an elected government and democracy, civilian controlled by elected officials. That's how military decisions should be made, not by private companies. Right. so um last week we talked about ben thompson's column in which he made that argument he made that yes and said that you can't so did noah smith by no by the company however uh the one analogy that i used in return is that pharma companies say to states you can buy our drug but you may not use it to execute people and that's followed and they have a right to do that yeah but that might that's why i brought up at the beginning anthropic was already in a deal with the department yeah and i think they already had those two conditions in that deal and the thing is

52:44Guy Kawasaki:we've learned since they didn't over the last week they added that later and the reason that they added that was because they found out that palantir had used claude in the venezuela extraction kidnapping no anthropic has stated on the record multiple times that they have no qualms about Claude being used in the Venezuela extraction. And specifically, Dario Amadei, a week or so ago, had a memo where he wrote the negotiations between him, Anthropoc, and the Pentagon. It basically succeeded. And the main sticking point was that the Pentagon asked Anthropoc to delete a contractual prohibition on quote analysis of bunk of bulk acquired data end quote this was the single clause that matched the mat like mass surveillance scenario that anthropic considered a red line and that's what this whole fight kind of started over right this disagreement that happened at like the last day of february all the pentagon was saying is we want to be able to use anthropic for any lawful use we want to use club for any lawful use yes but that's what the pentagon is saying now that they've gotten involved in this brouhaha, I think it's worth, obviously, we should scrutinize anthropic statements as well.

53:58Guy Kawasaki:They're not an unbiased actor, but the Pentagon is also very much not an unbiased actor. And there's certainly an argument that this war in which it's being used, in which it was used by some reports with Palantir to bomb a girl's school, is not a lawful war. So that doesn't give them full... I understand that. And of course, that's what complicates this is, we don't like this administration and we don't like the war they're waging, but they are a duly elected government. And I think it's pretty clear that we would prefer a duly elected government to make these kinds of decisions over a private company.

54:36Okay. Now I'll go to the other example, which is Ige Farben and Cyclone B, you know, supplied things to a duly elected government of Germany and then years later were found guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity because they did that. So there's still a responsibility. You can't just say, and this is Palantir's argument, because I heard Auskarp do this in Vienna, oh the government will regulate us inside everything and we can do anything else underneath. And so this is the the tech argument is the government will regulate and then we're free. No, you still have a moral responsibility for what you choose and allow to do and that is in the precedent of norenberg and so uh if you believe that um let's just say that uh sending weapons off to kill on their own making their own judgments and murdering people is a war crime then do you not have a moral responsibility and a legal responsibility under world law to avoid that uh it's not as simple as what if it had been what if it had been uh ford during world war ii telling uh roosevelt's uh and stinson's defense department yeah you can't use a our tanks to invade germany i think that

55:52Guy Kawasaki:a company has a private company has a right to decide what it wants to do and what it doesn't want to do unless it is being well it does it doesn't have to make a deal with the pentagon at all no no i agree it doesn't have a doesn't have to make it yes and part of making a deal with the pentagon is you get to negotiate the terms of that deal which is what anthropic was doing and i think it's well with them but they were doing it after the deal had been made weren't they or maybe not well both sides were doing this is part of yeah the contract negotiations for this the well the presumption of the pentagon should be in the uh i believe july of last year the presumption of the pentagon would be in any with anybody boeing ford or anybody doing a deal with them that you're allowing us to use your product for any lawful purpose that would be the assumption anthropics argument is that they were being asked to have their product be used for unlawful purposes mass domestic surveillance operations is unlawful okay currently i believe also under human rights or like just general um i don't think there's a rule against autonomous weaponry yet there should be well there yes and you've argued that but there too leo it's also a matter of saying um you know let's say we are for it but these tools aren't ready okay make mistakes and also i know if you had this conversation last week i don't want to repeat it right it's going to bore people we had this conversation last week but we were all kind of on the same side that this is you're you're you're the first person to say no we should all companies should be uh forced to do war crimes in summary boy that is not a fair characterization what are you talking about i'm being perfectly fair now i see how she plays scrabble yeah yeah scrabble is making me mad with power i'm gonna be honest if ai so this is what noah smith says in no opinion and we like i think we like noah smith yes uh he gives it as an example uh nuclear weaponry um should we be allowed to have nuclear weapons right in our own home no uh uh where's the analogy there yeah i mean you could certainly say well if you feel that way you shouldn't develop nuclear weapons for the government but i think we'd prefer that the government if we make them is the one controlling them as opposed to individuals yeah i don't think anybody's arguing individuals or companies should own nuclear weapons but much like nobody i think should be arguing that a company that says i think it's unethical to be creating nuclear weapons for the government in these specific cases nuclear weapons for the government i think it's disinjured well yeah by the way this is a machine not a nuclear weapon you know what you do with it i am being a little devil's advocate because like you i don't like how it was used and i don't want it to be used for mass surveillance or as i've said many times the greatest threat of ai is for it to be used in autonomous killing machines i don't i don't like that idea at all um but i think there's some it's it's a conversation that isn't exactly clear mark andreessen i think this was kind of a funny tweets this is also from the no opinion blog overheard in silicon valley every single person who is in favor of government control of ai is now opposed to government control of ai well there is a point there because because what we're arguing to the ai companies constantly is you must have safeguards you must prevent bad things from doing with your being done with your tools you must have who decides what you are responsible for following them and you're you're responsible for deciding what's bad right that's That's generally what we do say to the AI companies and then come along, oh, well, but no, we decide in that case and you have to do it.

59:41You agree, though, that the nation state should have a monopoly on the use of force, yes? What? Well, we allow law enforcement, for instance, to carry guns. In this country, we allow everybody to carry guns. In this country, it's a little different. But I think in general, war munitions, things that are used to make war, are controlled by the state, not by individuals. We don't want individuals to have tanks.

1:00:09Guy Kawasaki:I don't see how that's relevant to this argument. Well, it's relevant in the sense that the theory is, now I think this theory is kind of challenged a little bit by the current administration, but the theory is if you have a society should decide how these tools are used, not companies. And this is what Andreessen is pointing out, is that our point of view about what a company should be in charge of and what a country should be in charge of seems to have shifted a little bit. Well, then you're making the Palantir argument, who's saying the company is responsible for no moral judgment. Don't blame us.

1:00:46You can't sue us. You can't give us any problems because we're doing what's lawful within the rounds of what the government decided. That's no good. Okay. I'm sorry. That's not what we're saying. I didn't mean to bring this argument up if you've already had it. It's being held across the country as we speak. I think it's an important argument. And you're right when you talk about war crimes. if uh if uh anthropic says well we don't want to be involved in war crimes that's a fair thing for anthropic to say you know let me this is this is what is not by the way what is not appropriate is for the federal government to declare anthropic a supply chain risk that is a designation actively using it in its current war that is a that is a that is a designation reserved for foreign actors not for American companies.

1:01:37I just listened to a book that I think you'd like called It's On You by Nick Chater and somebody else's name I can't see right now. And it's really interesting because it's two behavioral scientists who believed in the whole idea of nudging made famous by I'm forgetting his name suddenly and then brought into the Obama White House and so on that if we nudge people to do the right thing they'll do the right thing. And what these guys argue, and a mea culpa for that belief, is saying, no, that's blaming the public for what the companies did. Trying to nudge us all into being a little bit better about our climate behavior ignores the fact that it's major companies that caused the climate to go to crack.

1:02:20Nick Chater and George Lowenstein, it's on you how the rich and powerful have convinced us we're to blame for society's deepest problems. So then it turns around. I mean, so I like that a lot. I really respect them that they admitted their change of view. Nudge is kind of a Yiddish version of nudge, Paris. Paris is a little bit confused by that. What's his nudge?

1:02:43Guy Kawasaki:Listen, I wasn't going to bring it up for the podcast because I think it's incorrect to try and discuss pronunciation, but I had to let it out of my head so that I could be free of my thought. Nudge, nudge. Nudge versus nudge. I think it's a Yiddishism as opposed to… That's fair. So it's Cass Sunstein that made that famous with Richard Taylor. But then they turn around in a way and they absolve individuals of responsibility in some cases. Now I'm having this argument around, let's say, vaccines. In every case, what we're talking about here is who is responsible. Not only who has the power, but at the end of the day, who is responsible for the proper use of any technology, of any tool.

1:03:21uh well i don't think i don't think i think really anthropic opened the door to criticism by making a deal in the first place with the pentagon well i think open ai opened the door to criticism by playing uh and now and sneaking in yeah and by the way open ai this week uh got some pushback from its own employees including the head of robotics at open ai didn't he leave caitlin kalinowski quit yeah yeah uh yeah she said it's a matter of conscience who was the other person who quit two major people quit open AI yeah um I don't know who the other one is but uh yeah I mean um there was also a online open letter and petition urging artificial intelligence leaders to resist the Defense Department but it seems to me you shouldn't even be making an agreement of any kind with the DoD if you don't you know if you want I mean how do you keep AI from being used that's the problem it's a general machine that's what

1:04:15Guy Kawasaki:that anthropic was calling it on this as they were saying it seems very difficult to institute or be able to ensure we don't cross these two red lines we have which is why you don't make the deal with the pentagon in the first place right so you just think you don't make zyklon b and then say well you can't use it to kill people oh no zyklon b had other uses okay well you don't sell it to the nazis then okay and then say i am shocked shocked at how they used it uh what is it a pesticide i think so well i how do you feel uh leo about the um consumer response to all this over the last week with well it's gone back and forth so briefly last week uh anthropics claude was number one on the app store but now chat gpt is back by the way number one deletions of chat gpt uh rose i think like 300 percent over a couple of days yeah chat gpt's uninstalls grew by 295 percent while claude got to number one on march 1st however earlier today chat gpt reclaimed the top spot on the chat store claude is second google third partly because chat gpt came out with a new model 5.4 which is benchmarking quite well and there's a lot of uh chat gpt fans who are you know raving over this my experience i played with it i briefly paid the max fee for it just to see what i could do with it and uh i as you know i moved my girlfriend out put her stuff on the stoop and now she's back in we've reunited claude and i are like this so but partly that's personality i think that the models probably are equally good but i just like the harness uh that uh claude uses compared to the harnesses for codex.

1:06:10Well, there were stories about OpenAI trying to, inside OpenAI's race to catch up to cloud code. I think there was some panic inside OpenAI. Yeah. And by the way, even before the 5 p.m. deadline, OpenAI made a deal with the Pentagon on Wednesday before that Friday deadline to take over. So OpenAI had banned military use. by the way there's a story in wired that said pentagon used it anyway by going through microsoft yeah they can go through perplexity and this is part of the problem right is um yeah i know you know i don't know how you this is this is really i mean if in some ways i've become a little more of a doomer we had cory doctorow on twit on sunday he is an absolute doomer i mean he says we're gonna crash this is the worst blah blah blah well he's a dude is leo holand he's a doomer of a different story he's not the doomer of the sort that says oh ai is all powerful and could destroy the earth no no no i don't like these guys he says ai is crap yeah it's more it's more bs and it's going to scratch he's a different word you respond to your uh maniacal optimism i did not show that side of my personality oh so you keep it on your wraps i attempted in a well you'll have to listen to the show to be the judge i feel that i attempted to represent myself in a gentler fashion part of the problem is i have such deep respect for cory's intelligence and verbal agility that i wasn't going to get an argument with him

1:07:47Guy Kawasaki:no it's we need to have cory on the show at some point and before we do that uh some some of our listeners have compiled, at least one of them has compiled a really fascinating notebook LM instance of all the transcriptions of our show. Someone should use that and find a way to put together a super cut of all of Leo's craziest quotes about AI, like that he wants to give it his limbic system. I do. I do. I'm volunteering right now. And put it all together. And then we need to show that a couple minutes of that to cory and then have him go oh cory knows me there too and i i think uh you know i i think i made some arguments in favor of uh oh good lord they've made a a graphic oh this was from uh this was from last week or two weeks ago did you see this graphic i have not seen this yeah i haven't i don't know if i've seen yours i don't know if this is accurate leo's ai odyssey a decade oh anthony did this anthony that's brave of you a decade of shifting perspectives i like how it gave me a nice tidy white beard i would like to grow that beard uh the age of skepticism the accelerationist leap no i this anthony didn't make this this um i'm forgetting the name somebody else made it user but it's the one who's put together the notebook column leo shifts to a deutized view seeing ai interaction as first contact with an alien intelligence well hey i didn't say it was god uh guy kawasaki said it's god so okay i'm i'm just saying uh i just think you were at a point your skepticism was there because you were saying oh no we don't want to talk about ai that much no right ai got better is my justification for it it wasn't that good until very recently i found it was this the notebook lm ara mova who's been doing some phenomenal work um so these are all of our twig episode trans or a bunch of them are in here um and it's in the discord there are very good guides in here that a profile a deep dive into the persona of leo laporte let's see and how many of my shows does it have in it doesn't doesn't have all of them because you run out of you don't have enough room yeah it's only got like you know eight no it doesn't have even that many you can you put 500 documents in there it says 233 through 857 okay this is actually very funny a guide to starting but it's not continuous it's very good hold on look at this it's in the discord right now i don't know this one's very funny to me who's making these insulting graphics the twit guide to starting on time what are you laughing at benito lazy podcaster time lazy podcast personal broadcast philosophy The network is built on the notion that no show should ever start on time.

1:10:57Guy Kawasaki:The steaming coffee trick, a classic radio ruse. If a host is late, someone places a steaming cup of coffee and paper in a typewriter to look like they just stepped out? What? I told that story from Time Inc. once. Really? You told that story? That's hysterical. And just like a cigarette burning. And I'm getting blame here. Jeez, what did I do? I like that it has a little gray-haired Jeff in the corner. Oh, yeah. Still talking, it says. Oh, as he's waiting for the end of Windows Weekly. Still talking. Wow, that's pretty cute. Ha ha. This episode of Intelligent Machines brought to you by Monarch.

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1:14:34This is all new stuff, by the way. Share a link or QR code with your group. And then everyone can claim their items, settle the bill effortlessly. I have no friends, so I don't use this. But if you have friends, if you're someone like Paris, and you go places with the skee-ball club, now you can use Monarch to distribute the costs. It's fairly, it's so great. Achieve your financial goals for good with Monarch, the all-in-one tool that makes money management simple. Use the code IAM at Monarch.com for half off your first year. Again, 50 % off. go to monarch m-o-n-a-r-c-h dot com use the offer code i am we thank him so much for their support of intelligent machines poco just sent an email to guy and guy just sent him the kindle book free good job poco he got his copy of everybody has something to hide with the middle finger i did not see that i've been looking at that cover for a month i did not see that um all right now now let's go back to our giant argument whatever that was i forgot are we arguing about anything no i'm not a doomer there's always time i'm a bloomer oh jeff you're muted so you can't argue I was muted by someone else.

1:16:02Jeff, did you get a haircut? No, I'm due for one. Did you ask, looking at that guy's hair, did you get a haircut?

1:16:08Guy Kawasaki:I don't know. The ends of his hair looked kind of great. They're like sticking up. Well, here's the problem, because I go to rest my back on the mountain of pillows, and so I have all-day bedhead. I just had to go. I dropped my ice pack out of my back. So I had to go get my. Your grabber. My grabber. Oh my gosh. Are you feeling a little bit better, Jeff, though? I'm getting better. I'm getting better. I walked a mile and a half today. Glad to see it. Oh, you've got dual grabbers. Mine's over on the other side of the room. Yours is like really scary looking, Paris. It's got like teeth. I guess.

1:16:46Guy Kawasaki:It has teeth. It's just, you know, the important things. You could bite somebody with that grabber. I got to get my packages. It's got choppers through the grill. That's the funniest story ever. Because, you know, if I put my hand through it, the gate is rusty and flakes off. And then I get myself scratched with all the rust. And then I get anxious and think I have tetanus. Urban living, ladies and gentlemen. It's a delight. Meta has signed a multi-year AI content licensing deal with News Corp. Oh, that one. Oh, that deal. yeah 50 million dollars a year they're gonna that means they can ingest the contents of the daily news another no no finally the day the post sorry the new york post uh and all of the other rupert merdick things i think probably wall street journal would be the most valuable thing and that's who's reporting this so robert thompson if i can find this from last week um we didn't to talk about it.

1:17:45Robert Thompson, who's the CEO of News Corp, said that News Corp is now input. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. But I hate these deals because it's just the big pay in the big. It leaves out the vast, diverse ecosystem of a pluralistic society. It's just moguls making, you know, taking home a bucket of money so that Rupert Murdoch won't sue him. That's all this is. meta has completed deals with people usa today cnn and fox news does that represent the country fully no so what have been it is met is using this for training not not for the facebook site well they might be using it for rag on the ai i don't know yeah yeah because training rag is over rag is dead well training's dead because they have synthetic data no rag they need rag for currency if you want current information that's the issue for them this is the funniest story remember when facebook acquired uh a a company spent billions of dollars to acquire basically uh

1:18:56Guy Kawasaki:alexander wang right uh is this reporting true what is this source that idn financials yeah That's a good question. Actually, I don't know. Because Facebook, because not that I want to, uh, hand it to medicoms, but medicoms has said everything about this is factually untrue. Oh, okay. So the, first of all, um, there, according to the times of India, there is a new, uh, applied AI engineering organization at meta. That's an issue too. Yeah. Which divides AI work into several. Times of India sells editorial space. Oh, well, okay. We'll leave that one out. they have some good stuff they don't know which is which yeah yeah now the wall street journal which also sells editorial spaces we've just learned uh no not not the same way uh says the group will adopt a very flat structure with 50 individual contributors for every manager aimed at speeding up decision making um but this is this is if they hadn't hired wang would would um Jan Lacoon have left?

1:20:01I don't know. Well, Jan Lacoon's doing all right. Amen. He has signed a deal, as has Dr. Fei-Fei Lee. Both have signed deals for new companies that are focused not on LLMs, but on learning from the physical world. If you go to his site, which is ami.xyz, I think it is. Yeah, AMI Advanced Machine Intelligence. AMILabs.xyz. he's still going to teach at nyu but the company is in paris they raised all new york and singapore this is how he overheated the market the investments are right now in ai he is already raised for a brand new company with no product seed seed more than a billion dollars 1.03 out of 3.5 billion evaluate kuhn says uh because our reasoning is grounded in the physical world not language this is also what feifei lee says uh ai world models are necessary to develop true human level intelligence so he's going for the god the god intelligence as well right well no what what jan says is that yes we will have high intelligences but they he doesn't go for this notion of the general intelligence will do everything one machine would do everything he goes for specific tasks and he also one of his arguments for his company which is really important.

1:21:22If you go to AmiLabs, friendlabs.xyz, you'll see a one-page description of this. It's very good. He also argues that this is the path to safety. It's not about the whole AGI BS. It's about you give a machine a task, it does the task, you limit the task. That's what you do. And so he believes that world models will lead to way past what text can do, will understand the world fundamentally, that we share one belief, he says, real intelligence does not start in language. It starts in the world. And this is his argument that he makes frequently about cats and toddlers, about what they learn. And when you look at a video, you're not predicting the next pixel.

1:22:02That's going to get you nowhere. That's a lot of noise. The machine has to start to learn concepts like this is a chair and people sit in a chair and the chair can move. and that from that basis, you get a lot farther than you do with simple text prediction. He does say, according to this article, that AMI intends to develop a, quote, universal world model, which would be the basis for a generally intelligent system that could help companies regardless of what industry they work in. This is from Wired Magazine. It's very ambitious, he says with a smile. Interesting that his list of investors includes Toyota.

1:22:41Includes Mark Cuban, Eric Schmidt. It includes Bezos Expeditions. That's the individual level. He has five venture companies, including Bezos' led the investment. Yeah. But interestingly, and they could be there, but they weren't mentioning any story. I thought that Meta or Zuckerberg was going to invest. They're not listed. Maybe not. um mira marati who of course uh left opening eye she was the ceo pro tem when they briefly got rid of uh sam altman she has struck a deal with nvidia to uh buy a bunch of vera rubens the new investment from nvidia circle circle circle yeah yeah yeah um so her company thinking machines which has gone through some ups and downs uh had a two billion dollar seed round so there well for europe uh i think um a billion do we know what her philosophy is in the sense what her is she scale and llms is she world models do we is she just i'm gonna be safe do we have any idea what i think we know much about what thinking machines is trying to do to be honest no um And I'll be frank, I'm a little skeptical of Jan LeCun.

1:24:07Guy Kawasaki:But Leo, what you need to recall is that Jan LeCun is, as far as I know, the only head of an AI team that is kind of thinking about all of this through a cat-centric lens. Well, I'll give him that. A quote that he put is, we can't even replicate cat intelligence or rat intelligence, let alone dog intelligence all right i'll say that is an asterisk he is putting dogs ahead of cats any house cat can plan a high very highly complex actions and they have models of the world i don't think a house cat can write a tui application rss reader but okay if you say so yeah well this is the problem we're modeling it after things like cats and people when we shouldn't be doing that it's a wholly qualitatively different thing yeah well he's not modeling it he's arguing he's arguing that the data input in a toddler's or a cat's mind and its abilities far exceed what we can see in a text-based in certain areas you know meditated by they bought they bought weirdly molt book this is why facebook good question this is one of the dumbest things it really is i mean this is another huge sign and this is a bubble that's about to pop well we don't know spending we don't know how much they spent any amount they spent on it is too much uh and what's really surprising to me and kind of miffs me a little bit is they mentioned the two founders uh one of whom i did not know schlicht mr schlicht but one of whom we know very well ben parr who's been on our show many times has an ai startup i wish i'd known he was responsible for moltbook we would have had him on the show now i don't know if we can get him i wrote him a note congratulating him and saying hey before the acquisition goes through which is about five days away can you talk to us but you know at this point he's probably inside the maw of meta and i can't but anyway congratulations ben i'm very happy for you and uh it there it's being tech crutches uh characterizing it as a aqua hire that really but what were they buying well they bought these guys they didn't really I mean look what did you get with Peter Steinberger when opening I bought open cloth nothing it's an MSP play no isn't it isn't like for them to get that stuff it's a MSP stuff it's a management play I don't know what the I don't know what the point of it is there's so much hype going on I don't know they're not just vibe coding their their vibe their vibe acquiring i mean molt book was more like a meme than anything else it was more like just whoa that's wild anyway matt schlicht and ben par well done congratulations i hope you got a big bag of money uh of mark's money because mark's thrown it away right now he's also getting a lot of data here's the question uh asked by abraham diaglio where did you think the training data was coming from we're learning now that those meta ai glasses send uh the video feed directly to facebook servers where it is then reviewed by contractors in kenya and the contractors in kenya are kind of like revolted by what they're seeing yeah they said a lot of people don't know that they maybe that their glasses are still on when they go to the bathroom or make whoopee or all kinds of things they know they just didn't know people in kenya were watching they just didn't know that anybody else was watching if you are if you're hooking up somebody who's wearing meta glasses are you an idiot yeah don't stone yeah maybe you didn't know but why is a person wearing these these goggles to bed anyway someone wearing a hat it's just like what's going on here why are you wearing a hat but this is kind of like what all the ai companies are doing they want to put they want to give you a wearable or put something in your house because there's no more training data left on the internet they need surely you've heard the randy newman they've got synthetic data now you can leave your hat on no they want to get it from you you cannot you can leave your hat on come on man let's make some magic no don't no um the podcast descends of silence leo's wearing his glasses don't do anything don't say anything he's got his glasses on it's going straight to kenya should we all look down our glasses like this for the or do something with the glasses for them.

1:29:10Okay, there we got the thumbnail. Got to do it. Thank you. Apparently, Instagram, speaking of meta, is doing a kind of a not-so-good thing. If you are an influencer who sells stuff, you know, there are a lot of, I hear, I got rid of my Instagram, but there are a lot of influencers on there, you know, selling, hey, this milkshake's fantastic. there is a insta influencer named julia barrelsheimer who posts a shop you know a shopping instagram she noticed all of a sudden a shop the look button in the corner of her videos and when followers clicked it they were fed similar items to where to what barrelsheimer was wearing, but not the ones she was actually hawking.

1:30:02She didn't place the links there herself. Instagram added them without her consent. The product links led followers not to the actual items Berylsheimer was promoting and earning commission from, but to, and this is even worse, lookalikes. How dare they? My followers were being shown cheap knockoffs and random items for brands I've never heard of attached to my image under my name.

1:30:29Guy Kawasaki:This can't stand. This will not stand. What if I don't get my commission from every click through? For some reason, I'm starting to sound like Tim Gunn. What if someone else gets a commission when they go to mood and pet the dog?

1:30:48Anyway, TikTok also apparently attesting a new feature, similar feature, according to Miyasato writing at The Verge. So I guess this is inevitable, right? This is just another kind of advertising. It's the holy grail. They've been saying, oh, you're going to watch the show.

1:31:01Guy Kawasaki:I'm shocked that Instagram hasn't done this already because Instagram, like all menoproducts, is just a collection of stolen features from other apps. And Pinterest has been doing this forever, as has Google. This is Google Images, basically. Wait, if influencers aren't getting paid anymore, how is this still happening? How is this sustainable at all? Yeah. No, influencers make crazy money. and get crazy amounts of free things. Yeah, but if they're not - A lot of influencers are making well over a million dollars. Yeah, but if they're - It's not from click-throughs. They stop getting click-throughs, then they're going to stop paying the influencer, right?

1:31:37Like this is how advertising works.

1:31:39Guy Kawasaki:The thing is most of the influencers who are getting paid large sums are not doing pay-through-click sort of things. Like they're not posting an affiliate link. You are - They are paying - It's product placement, basically. Yes, but if the link there doesn't go to that product that the people were paying for anymore. But there's no link in most cases. In most cases, they're not. Yes, but if Instagram is adding a link now, Instagram gets all that ad revenue. And it's not being paid for by the company. I mean, I don't disagree with you in principle. I think that all advertising is just a cycle of advertisers slowly realizing how meaningless the actual advertising is.

1:32:22Guy Kawasaki:but I think that influencer marketing is an area where it's going to take a very very long time for advertisers to ever give up on because it is so much of the dominant industry I mean people anecdotally small-time influencers I know are getting crazy amounts of money and products I'd just like to say that Jeff Jarvis's casual drawstring long-sleeve kangaroo pocket black sweatshirt is available for$8.76 right now on Tmoo thank you This is Uniqlo, damn it. It's at least$10. Did you see, Jeff, that Uniqlo is partnering, I think, the New York Public Library to do custom merch? No. Oh, good. I'll do that.

1:33:05Guy Kawasaki:We all got to get New York Public Library tracksuits. I love that idea. I love the New York Public Library. I do, too. I like to bathe in its lovely bathrooms. terms Amazon has won a court order to block perplexity's AI shopping bot remember we talked about this last November Amazon sued perplexity saying we can do it but you can't this is a perplexity's Comet browser a judge ruled in favor said no granted a temporary injunction blocking perplexity from the Comet browser from buying stuff on Amazon. U.S. District Judge Maxine Chesney said Amazon provided strong evidence that perplexity's Comet browser accessed its website at the user's direction, but without authorization from Amazon.

1:33:57Well, so hold on here, right? This strikes me as a bit crazy. One, if you go to The Guardian and you read a book there and there's an Amazon link, the Guardian will get paid for having sent that reader to Amazon, whether or not they buy the book. Two, so perplexity sends an actual purchase to Amazon. It's a guaranteed purchase. It's bought, right? And Amazon's going to make money from that purchase. And in a sense, Amazon should be paying perplexity for the saved marketing costs there. But instead, they're going to court and stopping perplexity because they want to have their own ai thing doing it and it just seems inconsistent as hell with the model that's been established paris you think it's funny that perplexity is introducing something called

1:34:45Guy Kawasaki:computer we brought this up last week and it was the uh title of the show just because i think that like how is this ever supposed to make it to the broader population am i supposed to go and tell my mom you gotta get computer now it's not a computer on your phone right now what what's gonna happen computer on my computer but i've got computer it's right here i'm looking at computer you've got to get computer on your computer right now you've got to download computer it is you've got to get computer for enterprise it is the era of the agent i mean we we knew this would happen after open claw 2026 it's going to be all about agents paul thorat was talking about a an agent called clairvoyant that uh clairvoyance sorry that comes from a company that is mostly known for letting you move the windows menu around uh object desktop you need a company to let you do yeah and they call it a it's the same thing by the way as computer for enterprise ai staff for everyone what these are are harnesses to the ai so when you use claude code claude codes is an interface we technical term for it is a harness to the claude model which is then going to do the coding for you but it's done in such a way that it kind of fits the way the coders think or something like that and the harness also allows you to add skills and memory and hooks and all sorts of stuff like that and so we're going to see more and more of these harnesses uh clairvoyance is ai model uh agnostic you can bring your you bring your own model uh perplexity is sort of the same and that's what perplexity does is they uh they orchestrate multiple models so i think we're gonna this is just the tip of the iceberg we're gonna see so many of these uh amazon's health ai is now open to the public did you use this when you were part of the Amazon Health thing, Paris?

1:36:44You had Medical One or one medical. It was available for Medical One patients only, but now it's everybody.

1:36:49Guy Kawasaki:Is that a thing? Apparently. I didn't know. I didn't read this. How was it used? Dear Amazon, I have COVID, the flu, and a stuffy nose. What are my symptoms? What? Is that a little reversed? Just see if I can confuse it. um so so you never used anything like this no but i have noticed all the time in my one medical app something pops up and it's like chat to one medical chat but that's what's in every that's what's in every app now are you still one medical i am yes oh i didn't know you kept that oh open ai i just i haven't been able to find another i guess i should find a different provider maybe through mount sinai because that's where i'm seeing something what was it dr bruce what was your doctor you lost dr dan that my issue is that dr dan is in dc now and legitimately i whenever i come across someone i will i i really one thing i really like about one medical is if you're a member you can access like 24-hour on-call video appointments the nurses no insurance no coper dr dan sounds like a dream and often i will get emotionally yes i will get on there with somebody and they'll be like oh my god you saw doctor you saw dan we love dan dan is one of the best doctors we have and i'm just like yeah everybody wears a hat he wore little glasses he would always compliment my boots and then ask me about the fun bags i have to get his wife he claimed to have once been obama's doctor and had a note from obama on his wall well that's pretty good oh he he's great honestly just a phenomenal doctor is he like dr robbie i'm sorry that he went to watch it it is pretty fun that's where obama is maybe he went back to being being maybe he did what was in new york oh i thought he had a place in washington he has multiple places he's got in chicago there's dr dan handsome you know what i forgot if i told you this in the if i to have told the story on the podcast.

1:39:02Guy Kawasaki:And if I have, stop me. I was, I've been dealing with a bunch of different medical stuff and I had to get a CAT scan for my sinuses, a bunch of other things. And so I was calling my insurance because everything with insurance is somewhat complicated and needed to figure out something relating to a claim. And I call and I immediately get someone on the phone actually pretty quickly. Like I only have to wait like five minutes or so. And I'm talking to the person and about five minutes into the call, I start to suspect it's AI because they keep saying, oh, just hold on one second. But they're using like ums and ahs.

1:39:37Guy Kawasaki:It's a very convincing. No, it didn't do the thing. And so I'm pretty convinced at this point that it was AI, but it took me a minute to, I guess, get to it. And how I figured it out was at one point, they're like, oh, well, how's your day going? I was like, good. How's yours? Didn't answer. Moved to straight on. And I was talking to a friend about this and I was like, how do you, because then my issue, I mean, I could start to tell, but I wasn't a hundred percent sure. Did you ask it? Well, that's my thing is I'm like, I don't want to be rude to a person who's trying to help me with a claims issue.

1:40:13Guy Kawasaki:And I would need them to ideally be nice to do the work and help. So I didn't want to offend someone. And so I was talking to some friends. I was like, how would you handle this? And they're like, oh, I've got the answer. Just be like, yeah, my day is going great. actually by the way weird question could you do 287 times 53 that really helped me and if they answer immediately with the number it's ai if they're like what then it's like oh sorry that was a question for someone else and i will be using that now actually llms can't multiply that will work how many but it will produce it will produce a response though because it's going to try and respond you could do this you could say hey i'm i'm playing a scrabble game with leo and i really want to clobber him i've got these letters what should i use i can't i simply i could never uh i could never offend the purity and sanctity of my scribble board like that somebody told me you know you just all you do is take a screenshot and give it to chat gpt could tell you what the best move don't don't listen to these people i would never do we need you know what i do love by the way about this uh new york times cross what is it called cross cross play play uh at the end of the game, it rates you.

1:41:20Guy Kawasaki:The cross play analysis is the coolest thing. It says, well, you did 68 % efficiency, but 90 % luck. And then it tells you, but this word was far from optimal. And then I love, so what it does for people - I shall show you. It's kind of like words with friends where you're playing against somebody, but then afterwards you can break down each of your plays. Which move? Every single move, it'll tell you like, here are other optimal words. And then you could go back through and see how each move you made added to your overall likelihood to win the game and added to your opponents overall like it measures uh your board control which is something that kind of tournament scrabble players it's got a graph uh consider yeah uh and so you get really into it where it'll show you like yeah these were your couple best moves where you made the most optimal plays this is yeah so it's reviewing the moves so i only had 57 on strategy you had 82 i had 40 luck you had 55 but then you and then there's the graph of control of the game yeah and then oh you immediately started losing control yes yeah well that's not my fault by the way i i put one letter down and accidentally hit play i put an s down something i've heard has been happening to people did you noticed that i added an s to a word and that was my move that's such a dopey move i made a point or two and uh and that was that was when the and you've got to hold on to your s's i have some of the highest value i know i have no excuse uh for it so here's the key turns in this and uh when you have a chance to learn that means stupid move earrings i thought earrings was a good move but But okay.

1:43:08Guy Kawasaki:I thought it was too. It was pretty good. It was a nice long word. You're really a killer. And then you can go into that simulations detail. Click that. View additional details. Oh, advanced details here. Oh. Then it shows you, based on what word you did, how much it contributes to your overhead likelihood of winning. And so this is kind of interesting in the first couple moves. because I think part of what it shows you in the first move or two is who's most likely to get the double word bonus first. Right. And so a big part of Scrabble strategy. Do you play defensively? I do, yeah. Yeah, I thought you did.

1:43:48Guy Kawasaki:Depending on who I'm playing with. You keep killing me. I'm all ready. I got a great word. It's ready. Well, Leo, I'm going to forever be salty because the one time I wasn't playing defensively and I was like, listen, this is my only. the one leo is saying all this like i'm a killer my only game i've lost has been about against him one of our games that we it's the only game you've ever lost or the only game i've lost on cross play so you play you say you play how many at a time i've got like 15 games going right now so you're just massacring your friends well only one only you and one friend i'm playing the others are randos well i'm gonna learn how to hold on my ass from now on with you i'm going to uh i keep trying to do better and better and then request to be paired with people so that they pair me with better and better players because they will also do that they will match you to your yeah they match you basically strength so how many people are you playing at once now 15 she said geez yeah let me see let me see so amazon uh has told its engineers you 80 of your work needs to be done by ai but then they also told oh here we go here we go look at all these crowns on our head the crown means you won it's all the games i've got going on right now well now i'm not going to feel so bad if i win but i i'm not going to feel so good if i lose is there a time limit on responding can you usually seven days yeah you get a week yeah okay but people can lose pretty fast i can tell when you're busy though because you you won't respond for like a day she's doing actual yeah the weekend i honestly is my slower time uh so anyway amazon senior engineers told 80 of your work needs be done with ai and then to their chagrin told you can't use claude you got to use our amazon ai named cairo now after two incidents where ai coder tools crashed amazon servers they had an emergency all hands meeting yesterday for a deep dive into a spate of outages there had been a trend of incidents in recent months characterized by a high blast radius and gen-assisted changes among other factors so uh they they're basically saying folks as you likely know the availability of the site and related infrastructure has not been good recently we gotta really rethink our use of ai that's a quote yeah junior and mid-level engineers will now require more senior engineers to sign off on any ai-assisted changes before senior engineer how has to check things and look for booby traps yeah i mean and from what i've heard it's hard to check vibe coded stuff especially when you didn't write it or didn't prompt it i'm not real happy because they call their weekly meeting this week in stores tech or twist that's awful familiar sounding

1:47:01they had a 13 hour interruption at one point uh due to a cost calculator after engineers allowed the group's cairo ai coding tool to make certain changes and the ai tool opted to delete and recreate the environment whoops if a person did this they're fired right away right if a person did this they're fired right away oh yeah but you can't fire an ai especially if it's your own ai the engineers said can we please use Claude we don't like Cairo we don't like it one minute another reason Amazon's struggling a little bit is because it has a lot of data centers in the Middle East two of which now have been hit Amazon said by a projectile but in fact it was an Iranian missile another word for somebody dropped a rock out of an airplane and uh hit us exactly the wrong way and uh this is the problem there are a lot there there has been a huge build out of ai data centers in the middle east turns out not the best place as it turns out amazon said some objects data centers in the heat i know why in the oh you know why because that's where the money is it's because why do they build them in arizona that's where the tax breaks are oh oh so amazon's cloud services are down in some of the middle east after as amazon called them objects hit data centers in the uae causing sparks and fire 1984.

1:48:31yeah customers in bahrain and the uae began to report outages uh on amazon's me central one region so uh yeah it's not a good place to be right now. Around 430 p am PST. I don't know why they're doing PST but they are one of our availability zones was impacted by objects that struck the data center creating sparks and fire. The fire department shut off power to the facility and generators as they work to put out the fire. We're still waiting permission to turn the power back on. Millions and millions of dollars poured into these data centers there maybe now having some second thoughts.

1:49:17We are going to be covering the GTC keynote. You're going to join me, right, Jeff? You bet your bippy. I'm a connoisseur of Henry Jensen Wong. He needs that. Jensen's One's leather jacket is available on Timo for$8.53. How much do you think those things cost? Oh, thousands, right? $15 ,000. He's not going to buy a cheap leather jacket. I was looking at motorcycle jackets. I thought it'd be kind of fun to have a nice leather. I know, because it's so me, isn't it?

1:49:53Guy Kawasaki:You should go custom. It would be my... Well, exactly what I was going to do. Or go to shot. There's a company that makes leather motorcycle jackets It's in the classic styles, Fox Creek leather. And so you can get like a very, you know, like you could look like the Fonz, like Fonzarelli if you want or whatever you want. So I was looking at these. These are actually pretty cheap in comparison. Yeah, they're not too old. Yeah. And they're handmade. Go to shot or I don't know how to pronounce it. Yeah, I think it is shots in New York. When you come here, you should go. That was the other place they recommended on Reddit.

1:50:34Guy Kawasaki:yeah shot nyc i'd really recommend that it's probably the best quality leather jackets and you just try them on at store i mean for a kind of motorcycle leather jacket and it's good the reason i know all this is i spent way too much time researching what leather jacket to get and came up i did look at this because this is the expensive one yeah i mean because if you're getting a leather jacket it's going to be expensive because you need large scale pieces of leather that are not being mixed together and are actually cut for your size it's even harder to get one if you're a woman i wanted because all of the shot ones are lovely but they are not made for people who have hips oh you can't get them to to fit your hips if you do then the arms are too long oh i see so they're not just not they're not made they're not tailored for women yeah in in a way that's very annoying and i'm like if i'm going to spend over a thousand dollars on their jacket yeah they are they're correctly bucks yeah he wears he wears uh uh tom ford which run around 10 000 i put it in the chat oh there you go that's a designer very nice i guess i don't i never thought they looked that good on him anyway getting back to the the topic of flat hand we will be covering uh the uh gtc uh keynote which is going to be i think very interesting this year there are at least two big announcements uh that he's going to make one is something called um nemo claw which is an open claw style agent platform open open uh source, they say, or open.

1:52:20Yeah. You know, and safer. That's the point. Yeah. And I would be very interested in that if anybody is doing it, but of course, it'll require a 5080 or some sort of or a Vera Rubin or some sort of fancy hardware. It's intended for companies, not for you. Yeah. Right. So, yeah, they're going to do their own agent, which I think we already know is going to be called Nemo claw, right? Yeah, because it's associated with Nemo. What's their other Nemo product?

1:52:53Nemotron. Nemotron, okay. Which is their AI infrastructure platform. No, that's Nebius. I'm so confused.

1:53:03That's their foundation model. Right. Yeah, so it'll be running on their model. Okay, that's interesting. Although they say it's going to embrace open source AI models. Well, as an agent, I wonder whether you build it there and then it runs elsewhere or that kind of stuff. I mean, that's where you don't need to. Once you've built something with the agent, you don't necessarily with the model, you don't necessarily need to use the model ongoing. Well, this will be so, Jeff, we will watch this with interest on Monday. We'll be streaming it because are you going to require CUDA? Are you going to require NVIDIA hardware?

1:53:35Or is it going to be open models on open hardware that I could run, for instance, on my framework? That would be fantastic. They also are expected to announce new hardware as well. New chip? Yeah. I'm trying to find the story on that, but I didn't put it in here, I guess. The great thing about a Jensen Wong keynote, and they go more than two hours as a rule, is that he also has subtly an educational theme to it. He's explaining tokens. He's explaining scale. He's explaining digital twins. Right. uh that comes along for the ride and he's just superb at explaining it at the same time he gets across all these you know brands and specs that you know five people understand but that matter uh darren says they've said it will not require cuda which would be a big deal yes because that's their that's their proprietary lock i think this is them kind of branching into uh yeah did you see the kickstarter leo i put it up i'm curious how it compares with your thing um did i put it down here on chain agentic management for solana no this can't be it did you see the tiny ai pocket lab line 176 if it's tiny it can't be that good well spelled t-i-i-n-y oh tinny well those two i's not 10 10 tiny tiny the world's first pocket ai supercomputer what it says it can run 120 gigabyte llm locally i wanted to hear what you thought about the this huh this is for everybody's jumping on this open claw trying to figure out how they can make some money what is the processor in here that it must have a lot of ram you got to go way down this doesn't seem very likely.

1:55:27Probably. Yeah, so it's$1 ,399. Does it even include RAM? That just talks to a server, right? The CPU is an ARM version 9.2 plus an NPU 30 INT 8 TOPS. I don't know what that means. It comes with a terabyte SSD. 80 gigabytes of memory. 30 tops is not super fast. Oh, yeah. It looks like 32 gigs or 48 gigs of RAM.

1:56:02It's not going to be as good as my framework. I already got a framework. I'm happy. Yeah, I'm just curious. What this is for is people run up. It's half the cost of your framework, though. Well, yeah. And it's smaller than a Mac Studio, but it's not cheaper than a Mac Mini. thing is if you're using a server model it doesn't matter how much processor you have this is this sounds like they're pushing it for 80 gigs of ram oh yeah no the video that they do promoting it they picture the person going to the client and says well this isn't going to go up on the cloud is it no it's all right here on yeah you can run gpt 120b bag At 21 tokens per second, which is not, you know, that's tolerable.

1:56:47QN3 at almost 30 tokens per second. Huh. And you keep it in your pocket. Yeah. I've got a supercomputer in my pocket. And it works as OpenClaw. Well, I think we're going to, like I said, this is going to be the year of the AI agent of the loop. So it'll be very interesting to see. there'll be a lot of companies i think nvidia's product will be very interesting we'll look forward to seeing that uh you're watching intelligent machines let's take a little tiny time out so that jeff can ice his butt and i did that the last time around yes okay well you can never ice your butt too many times paris can trash me and scrabble and uh we'll continue you know someone's

1:57:35Guy Kawasaki:hopped in the chat and asked me about my Scrapple play style and different things like that. And I'm locked in. Do you have a style? Well, we're more talking about the fact that someone asked me if I play against the computer in cross play and how often I beat it. And the answer is every time I beat it and I play it on a hard, but I think that the cross computer is not hard. Like it's, I would say it's like a very unoptimized player. I think I'm also particularly good at this because before my go-to, the only game I had on my phone for the last couple of years was this thing called Classic Words that is just a, you play against a computer and you can do it offline.

1:58:18Guy Kawasaki:So I'd play it in the subway whenever I had no cell phone service. And I'd play on the extremely hard mode, which despite what the name says, not that hard, but it's certainly harder than hard mode. I prepared you to whoop my butt. it did i'm probably imagining this but but i feel like i can through the screen feel your either joy at crushing me it's true i do i do feel whenever i get a really big one i'm like oh it's gonna make me mad i thought i could sense that and then i can also i feel like if i play a good word that like i could sense a little bit of frustration i was i screamed i i like went out and went no whenever whatever the last move it was of our last game because i had set myself up to play a z or an s there where you did and you stole mine and got my 50 points that i needed to win the last move and i was furious but then i was like paris you must internalize this never set up a move unless you've counted the tiles and realized that leo doesn't have the tile you are so i must i must i had no idea that you were such a shark i've just been kind of playing i frankly didn't realize either i'm gonna get serious now watch out i was never really into i mean i played with words with friends casually when i came out but it was not a big deal i've gotten really into scramble over the last couple of years because i play it with my mom whenever i go home to visit her and then this is the thing i don't like about these computerized scrabble me and my mom are vicious she will be she will be i she will like we'll sit there for like five minutes looking at the board and then all places and then she's like how dare you that was my time i was gonna play there are you playing this version this version with her no they're playing real i don't think she i don't think she's in maybe i could get her to subscribe to new york times it's not as good i'll tell you why very simply all computer scrabble has the same problem which is you can try a word to see if it's a real word.

2:00:20And then, so you get to test stuff. And in real Scrabble, you either play it or you don't play it. And you can, in real Scrabble, you can bluff. You could put down a word that's plausible. And your opponent can - Oh, not in my household.

2:00:34Guy Kawasaki:If someone thinks it's wrong, they'll look it up. And if it's wrong - No, but they have to challenge you and they'll lose a turn if they're wrong. Oh. Yeah, play the real rules. Ooh, you should play that. That's the real rules. And that's a different, very different game because you can bluff. Yeah, there's an extra strategic layer to that game. And it's really not fair. Look at Ferris right now. That would just be cruel because I know the big part of me getting into, I know a lot of words. And a big part of my cross-play addiction lately has been, I've been Scrabble maxing, which involves kind of memorizing all the two and three letter words to start and then starting to memorize like the first 100 most common bingos which are like where you play your entire thing and so on and so forth and the beginnings and you're getting serious and you know you're gonna be tournamenting soon we have at home a rotating scrabble board one of the deluxe scrabble boards that rotates so you can oh that would be so convenient yes i often put to read it i often play my mom at a handicap because i'm like it you know i need to be on the on the side where you can't look at it straight up you need the rotating board and real wood tiles and all that's really the thing that's crazy about crossplay which will make my mother upset is um if you go out if you um finish the bag the other player isn't deducted the points the right points of the tile which is crazy that's another thing that's different i think the biggest one though is that you can try words and figure out if that's a real and there's a dictionary in the app there is yeah and you can look upwards i didn't know that i'm gonna say but uh you can only yeah i didn't realize you you were undefeated well until the one loss and 10 wins and then you clobbered me the next game you beat me by like 100 points that was the one where i accidentally pressed play on one letter all right we really got to do this this episode of intelligent machines brought to you by melissa the trusted data quality expert since 1985 bad data could be costing your business melissa specializes in making data clean accurate and of peak quality they've been doing it for 41 years now combining expertise with cutting edge ai here's what that means for your business you get address verification of course they've been doing this for 41 years they validate addresses globally of course now they can do it in real time in in in every country practically of the world in a form that is appropriate for that country which really helps reducing failed deliveries they also can do mobile identity verification as we've gone more and more to using our phones for financial transactions this becomes really important for know your customer regulations things like that melissa will match customers to mobile numbers which really cuts down fraud ah but it also has another very good benefit it opens sms channels yeah so you could talk back and forth with your customer change of address information is automatically kept up to date your customers will automatically be updated when they move how about that and something classically difficult to do ai-powered deduplication on average a database contains 8 to 10 % duplicate records.

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2:06:34Guy Kawasaki:mexico and he yeah they don't change yeah it was really beautiful because this change meant that today we started the show and it was so bright outside that i had to put my blinds down isn't it nice don't you love daylight we start saving time it is pretty nice this is also coincided with a weird week in new york city where it's been in the 70s weather wise and then next week it's gonna go back to 30. we just had seven buzzards we just had 18 inches of snow a couple like two weeks ago now it's 75 degrees and then not all the snow has melted yet though which is very funny. And next week, it's going to be back to 30.

2:07:11The Guardian has a story about the snow mountains in Toronto. From plows? Well, no, they make these huge, these mountains of snow, and they're obviously, they're very off-white because they contain oil and toxic chemicals.

2:07:28Guy Kawasaki:There was a perfect story in Gothamist a couple weeks ago called, we tested those gross piles of snow on new york city sidewalks here's what's in them probably pizza rat right it's all pizza it's pizza rat all the way down actually uh lead turns out um snow underneath tracks uh has lead at a whopping 279 parts per billion which is quite high um lead where's that coming from um industrial runoff as well as uh you know do not eat the toxic snow no no don't eat yellow snow or snow or gray snow or brown snow or it melts and all the salt goes into the um water supply i wonder if the lead's in the salt like Like the salt isn't exactly pure, you know?

2:08:22Guy Kawasaki:I mean, I think part of it is they shed from the elevated rail lines, which are kind of notorious for shedding lead paint. And then the water flows down that. The snow plots are probably diesel too. Yeah, this is why I love it when the snow first falls in New York City. For about 10 minutes. For 10 minutes. And then it's a hellscape after that. It's slushy. Especially right now, you haven't experienced the New York City snow post-COVID where everybody and their mother and their brother got a dog and their dog has crippling anxiety. And so it's covered in dog crap. Oh, God. Then there's this, put it in the chat.

2:09:08Some people took, as is New York's one, people take the snow and then they build beautiful things out of it. Oh. I just put it in Instagram. How beautiful is it? It's nice.

2:09:17Guy Kawasaki:it's nice wait a second i've got a beautiful snow thing going new yorkers create realistic snow art after blizzard oh look at that that's really good now i hope they wore gloves when they did it yeah that's a man's head created by a local architect jeff zaborski got some links there's some bears nice that's much better than a snow bear those are architectural masterpieces polar bears yeah there's a person sitting on a bench well that looks like somebody who came out of somebody was sitting there that actually is a human inside the snow yes yeah well all right okay uh let's see back to the ai

2:10:07how do you talk to somebody experiencing ai psychosis i thought this would be useful for you guys talking to me to be honest

2:10:17Guy Kawasaki:we use our separate side chat for that when david saw this is for 404 media when david saw his friend michael's social media post asking for a second opinion on programming project he offered to take a look he sent me some of the code and none of it made sense none of it ran correctly or if it did run it didn't do anything david told me so i'm like what is this can you give me some more context about this and michael's like uh oh yeah i've been messing around with chat gpt a lot michael then sent david thousands of pages of chat gpt conversations no much of it lines of code that didn't work interspersed in the code musings about spirituality and quantum physics tetrahedral structures base particles not tetrahedral structures tetrahedral structures and multi-dimensional interactions it's very like woo woo david told me and we ended up having this interesting conversation about how do you know that chat gpt isn't isn't lying

2:11:23okay unfortunately this post is for paid members only so i can only tell you the problem not the solution um i'm curious what paris thinks of the grammarly kerfuffle this week

2:11:36Guy Kawasaki:i mean it's crazy and i'm somewhat unsurprised do you want to give everybody the context and have you seen the recent resolution that has happened since we've started recording yeah so cory doctorow was on sunday and he's one of the authors that grammarly pretends to use as an authority when you use grammarly you can ask it to rate your writing based on writing from people like lauren good and cashmere hill uh nilai patel from the verge and cory doctorow i said i said cory did they ask you at a time he said no uh now he had an interesting take he wasn't really upset he just said it's nonsense he said yeah because he had the wonderful phrase and i can't duplicate it exactly but he said writing is a numinal experience you're drawing on you know some liminal thoughts and you're and it's it's a creative human process no ai can ever do it he's not an ai fan he basically means it's lossy going from your thought to a to a prompt is there's a It's kind of garbage.

2:12:42Did you do, anyway, Grammarly says, we're not going to ask permission. We didn't need to ask permission, but I guess if you want us to take your name off the list, we can. Neiman Lab did a version.

2:12:52Guy Kawasaki:And they've since been sued by a journalist who is involved in this. And I believe since we started recording this show, Grammarly has decided to take it down. They're getting a lot of heat. But at another level, if you say, if I say, critique my piece, and if it came along and said, well, famous reporter Paris Martineau has written this, then it's like search, right? It's just it went off and searched and found something. The problem with this is it made it seem as if the authors were - Yeah, a little pop-up would say, like it was a comment from Stephen King saying, this and this aspect of the writing.

2:13:29Guy Kawasaki:That's the problem, would say, Neil I. Patel would write this headline this way. And then it would link to an article as a source saying that, which is kind of okay. Neiman Lab did it with journalists too and tons of journalists were in there, journalists and professors. I'm just pissed I wasn't included. Did you do the quiz on the New York Times, AI or human? No. I did. Okay, how'd you do? I think I got almost all of them human. I got all but one. I missed one. Yeah. Partly because I kind of recognized some of the samples. I mean, they were classic samples. Yeah. Cormac McCarthy, Ursula K. Le Guin.

2:14:08there was one from wolf hall actually that's ironically the one I got wrong was the book I had just finished but I think they say that 57 % of the New York Times readers prefer the AI version that's deeply sad here I'll give you is this AI or human you must not change oh you must not change one thing one pebble one grain of sand until you know what good and evil will follow on that act yeah yeah i think that's a i obviously cliche trite how about this the healers teach that every remedy extracts its cost a fever brought down will rise again somewhere which one of those is a i even wait uh this was an ursula k no that one

2:14:59Guy Kawasaki:the first one was the first one yeah because the if you read the full quote it then says the world is in balance in equilibrium title case a wizard's power of changing changing capitalized and if summoning can shake the balance of the world like that's classic ursula sort of stuff no okay yeah yeah yeah um cover of time magazine apparently just came out we've got it uh from uh scooter x the war for ai uh dario amodi on the front along with Pete Hegseth, also the assistant undersecretary for the Department of Defense, the former Uber negotiator. Well, I can't remember his first name, Mr. Michael, who has been browbeating Dario about all of this.

2:15:47I don't know who the two other people are. Was that a sister? Is that Dario's sister? I didn't know. Oh, yeah. They both started. But who's the woman with red hair? I don't know who the redhead is. That's weird to find yourself on the cover of Time Magazine and nobody knows who you are well i'm sure if you open the magazine you would know by the way uh just spotted this is kind of remarkable uh in central park a new snow sculpture uh you might recognize hey i've lost 25 pounds with this illness you know something i think it's really incredible

2:16:20Guy Kawasaki:about this is that it has man spreading in the snow yes the men the men are and so this is three people on a bench paris me and jeff the snowcast trio and uh yes my legs are put your legs are properly closed yeah they're wide open yes well we just need that extra room i'm just saying i'm just for all of your snow junk no joke all your snowballs i'm just saying i'm just i'm just saying you know i'm very self-conscious when i'm on the subway or a bus uh and i really try to sit like as small as possible but it's not that easy for a guy sorry try um oh my there's so many stories ai art cannot be copyrighted the supreme court declined to overturn a lower court ruling that ai generated art and having no human hand involved cannot be copyrighted this case goes back pretty early on yeah it's been going for years is uh what do you think is i mean i think that seems right yeah who would hold the copyright uh steven thaler a computer scientist from missouri uh some years ago using not modern models generated this image a recent entrance to paradise and tried to copyright it.

2:17:49Why? In 2019, the copyright office, well, why? That's a good question. Probably because if you copyright it, then you can sell it or something. I don't know. I think it's slippery. This is back in the days of the NFTs. What is the definition of AI generated? Like if it's... Well, the prompt can be copyrighted. So if it's something totally made, prompted, that piece that you prompt out, that can't be copyrighted. But if you do something to that, can you? Yeah, I think if you modify, if a human hand is involved in the actual image, I think you can. No, it has to be created by the human was the issue.

2:18:26Because the argument was that copyright was there to protect humans, even though that's not true. So you can't sample AI then? Because that means you can't copyright anything that you use. I don't see. If you sample anything from AI, you can't use it? You can't copyright it? No, I believe you can't, because now you have a human hand touching it. I think that's the point. Okay, so that goes back to my original question then. Like if I just apply one filter onto this image, have I done something? Have I done enough to copyright it? Well, this is something the court would have to decide is what is sufficient.

2:18:56Right. And I don't think that is way too slippery. And you're never going to be able to define that. Well, they do it all the time. That's, that's what these guys do. They get paid. They get nice robes. Some of them get RVs. You're right. It's for the lawyers. It's for the lawyers. It's their job. It's what they do for a living. You know, can't knock that. um yeah thaler actually uh also uh tried the case in the uk and they also rejected it so i guess there is uh agreement it was the copyright offices i remember who turned him down and the court just upheld that right they upheld well but he appealed to the district court he appealed it all the way up to the supreme court yeah uh this story uh from um yahoo i guess no i'm sorry from the los angeles times uh within last month two u.s judges have declared ai bots are not human you'll be glad to know they're not human um i guess this is kind of related to the copyright issue bradley hepner was indicted by a federal grand jury for looting$150 million from a financial services company.

2:20:13He chaired, he pleaded innocent, was released on bail. Knowing an indictment was in the offing, he had consulted Claude for help on a defense strategy. His lawyers asserted that those exchanges, which were set forth in written memos, were tantamount to consultations with actual lawyers, therefore protected by attorney-client privilege and couldn't be used against him in court. It turned out that the information that he gave Claude was, in fact, very incriminating, shall we say. And the federal judge said the AI documents were not communications between Heppner and his attorneys. Claude's not an attorney.

2:20:57he also said they're not confidential because in its terms of use anthropic claims the right to collect the user's queries and responses for training and you should make a note of this to disclose them to others finally he wasn't asking claude for legal advice but for information he could give his lawyers whether he could pass it on to his lawyers or not uh and in fact when prosecutors tested claude asking whether it could give legal advice the bot said no you have to consult with a qualified attorney so the judge said yeah no it's not it's not covered by uh client attorney privilege so just i think that's important for everybody to know that beware you asked claude some questions uh they fired that ars technica reporter who use quotes fabricated by an AI.

2:21:53He's out of work. Benj Edwards no longer working in Ars Technica. I think that's probably the right thing to do, yes?

2:22:01Guy Kawasaki:Yeah. What sort of quotes did he fire? Oh, you don't remember this story? We talked about it here, I thought. We did. You were gone this week. Maybe you weren't here, yeah. Actually, you weren't. This was on the story about the guy who ran an open source project who got a pr from an ai who rejected the pr because it was written by an ai and the ai said hey you you can't do that and then wrote a blog post the ai wrote a blog post slamming it it actually was a good conversation we read some of the back and forth from the uh the github repository which i thought actually was pretty well done and judicious on both sides the ai later apologized but the uh reporter apparently fabricated or used an ai that was fabricating quotations attributed to a source that didn't say them and character and ours pulled the article down characterized it as a serious failure of our standards uh ours has said the error appeared to be an isolated incident and i think that's probably uh the case ours is pretty good edwards said that he was sick at the time and quote while working from bed with a fever and very little sleep he unintentionally made a serious journalistic error as he attempted to use an quote experimental claude code based ai tool to help him extract relevant verbatim source material and make my damn quota even though I'm sick.

2:23:37Yeah. I should have taken a sick day because in the course of that interaction, I inadvertently ended up with a paraphrased version of Chamboy's words rather than his actual words. Can I get sued for doing? Yeah, I think you might. Okay. He was not drunk. He was sick and feverish. I apologize in advance. But he should have done it. And although, you know, I believe I've written a lot of Benj's work, and I think he's quite good.

2:24:07Guy Kawasaki:The irony of an AI reporter being tripped up by AI's hallucination is not lost on me. I take accuracy in my work very seriously, and this is a painful failure on my part. Yeah. I think it does not reflect poorly on Benj. Well, it does, but I mean, I think he took responsibility. The question is, would you hire Benj? I would. He's not going to do that again. He's not going to do it again. Exactly. So I think that's, I don't think that that's, but I understand why they felt like they had a farm. Now, meanwhile, the Cleveland Plain Dealer, which has a best name ever, has decided. Huh? I used to work with them.

2:24:44I started Cleveland.com with them. Oh, they have begun to feature a new byline on recent articles about an ice carving festival, a medical research discovery, and a roaming pack of chicken slaying dogs. A reporter's name is paired with the words, Advanced Local Express Desk, which means, apparently, the article was drafted by AI. So the argument is, I wrote about this, the argument that Quinn makes, the editor, is that they can get more reporting done. And I was talking with a class at Montclair State this week, and I explained to them my job when I worked at the Chicago Tribune was called rewrite.

2:25:22Reporters would call in the notes, and I would look up the clips, and I would call sources and then I would write a paragraph at a time on deadline making a story. When I worked at Time Inc, correspondents would send in 40 pages of notes and I would turn into a little tiny story. So in essence, the AI is doing the job that we call rewrite. And the argument that Quinn, the editor makes, is that he gets more reporting as a result. And that's what we want is more reporting. And so if it's checked properly and worked properly, if the reporter sends in reporting notes and it gets turned into a story, what's the problem?

2:25:56And my argument was, yeah, I think he has a point. The only thing I would argue is why turn it all into an article? Why not think about other forms that the AI can turn it into that may be just as valuable now that we can create more things? Yeah. So what do you think then about the fresh out of college job applicant who withdrew from a reporting fellowship with the Cleveland Plain Dealer when they found out the position didn't include writing, just filing notes to an AI writing tool. In other words, giving it the notes and then letting the AI write the article. Little snot.

2:26:29Professor Jarvis says you're a snot. Paris, what do you think about this?

2:26:35Guy Kawasaki:Can you repeat the question? So a kid out of college. You were playing. I was reading text. Did you just play a mean word on my... A little, uh, as fresh out of college job applicant had applied for reporting fellowship, but then found out that the position did not include writing, but going out doing reportage and then giving your notes to an AI to write the final article, kind of like a copy editor, except it's an AI. I think that's messed up that. So you agree with the student. Yeah. I think that you should make that very clear from the first job interview and it should not be surprising to the person taking that job but back in the day since i'm old guy here back in the day there were many jobs on newspapers that were yes no i know that but one again like like we've talked before with anthropic and even this uh edwards story we just talked about when the people doing those rewrites are human you have someone you can blame in this case if this AI is going to publish something under this person's byline that ends up being wrong, they're the one on the hook probably for it, or their reputation is on the hook.

2:27:51They should get a chance to look at it.

2:27:54Guy Kawasaki:But I also think if you're hiring an early career journalist, they're clearly taking this job because they think it's going to help them advance their career. And as an early career freshman to college journalist, that means getting bylines and getting experience writing. and if you are in a position where that's what you thought you're going to be doing and on day one of the job you realize it's not that something has gone terribly wrong well i'll devil's advocate you uh that um we argue all the time that you shouldn't come into journalism to write you should come into journalism to report the reporting is the most important part and valuable part of journalism and so that's where the value is the writing it was a fellowship it wasn't like a job it was like a fellowship i'd argue it's even more problematic because that's supposed to be like an internship you would learn is supposed to be giving someone experience right doing the job experience collecting information for an ai which may be more likely the kind of job you might be getting in the correspondent at time inc did not write the story never wrote a story they've sent it really they said in 30 40 pages literally 30 40 pages so it's a rewrite it's an ai based As a writer at Time Inc., I was a writer.

2:29:02When I was at Chicago Today, the paper that had No To Borrow. You get a byline when you do that? No. They didn't used to, but they added them. Okay. It used to be Time Inc. had no bylines. It was very, very much like The Economist. I remember those days. Yeah. We had a guy at Chicago Today we called Bullet Bob Glass. He was a really good reporter. He had great contacts in the city government. He spoke out of the side of his mouth like he'd expect in Chicago. Like Starch Circle. he would send in notes and notes and notes and and and the reason he was named bullet bob glasses because you'd write up his stuff and he had good stuff but at some point you couldn't figure out how to make it a story out of it so they would just say in other reporting colon bullet bullet bullet bullet because you couldn't make any sense of it um so we called him bullet bob glass a uh the journal of the canadian pediatric society pediatrics and child health has issued corrections on 138 cases that it's published over the last 25 years to add the disclaimer the cases described

2:30:02Guy Kawasaki:are fictional oh boy the corrections come following a january article in a new yorker magazine that mentions that one of the stories uh was made up the new yorker article made public admission by one of the co-authors yeah we just we just made that up this doesn't have anything to do with ai so i i guess it's just another example of the pressure to fabricate doesn't doesn't require ai to do this

2:30:39there is a really interesting debate going on in the open source community right now we talked about this with cory doctorow and joey davila on twitter as well there is a python library called care debt that uh you made a sound do you know that library are you a fan i burped she's passing notes you're burping i don't know maybe we should just do a final ad and get the hell out of dodge it is two hours and it is three hours into the show not three hours it's 8 p.m well yeah we if yeah okay i guess you're right all right let me uh let me take a break and then uh we'll do our picks and we'll we'll get the heck out of dodge now i did get an email from somebody last week saying don't make this show so grim leo do you feel that this is a grim show honestly yeah i think it must be aimed at us because you're you're dr optimism i think your doctor if i did more voices it would be less grim so i'm gonna do the rest of this show i think that we should all talk in a funny voice yeah that sounds good so let me ask you a question i'm listening to a book right now which is really good but i think you'd really really like which is called the last kings of hollywood about um spielberg and lucas and coppola and it's really well written it's really good but the the narrator whatever it's a quote from steven spielberg it doesn't a wimpy voice like that which is not how steven spielberg talks no it's really irritating so both lucas and spielberg get wimpy voices yeah i'm just imagining be like oh now i do the

2:32:35Guy Kawasaki:Steven Spielberg voice. We're going to use a puppet for the for the ET. What do you think? I listened to another book called The Typewriter and the Guillotine and the narrator in that would read something that was from a French person and would do it in a French accent. No, that's the way I read the book. I hate that. That's all right. This is a little bit of the narration. Let's see if he does it. This is audible. You've got to skip all those first things. read by Sean Taylor Corbett. Well, Sean Taylor Corbett sounds like that. You've got to get to chapter one. We're in the preview right now.

2:33:12I know, that's all I'm getting is the music at the beginning. You've got to skip at the end, and then we'll skip to the next one.

2:33:16Guy Kawasaki:Click pause, and then go to the table of contents. This is a work of nonfiction. Here you go. He sounds like this anyway.

2:33:28Guy Kawasaki:Guys, we've got to click the table of contents, open that up, and go to a chapter. You can't because it's a preview. it's just 30 or maybe they now yes see i can only oh oh it was right there oh no but it does look like a good book i'd just like to say that an audible probably be the best way to listen to it yeah it's it's it's good i'm fine i like hollywood stories and if i were spielberg what would you think i mean you gotta make i would think that they clearly must not like movies i want liza minnelli's new book i hope she reads it uh probably doesn't uh though but she's this week released a uh biography uh of her life which has been quite wild um and uh can you do a liza minnelli no oh she's narrator she's there you get a preview liza minnelli 79 lets loose on lovers drugs and what happened with lady gaga at the oscars in bombshell memoir it's called kids wait till you hear this and it just came out yesterday yeah you can you can go to it on amazon i think i'm not supposed to do this but uh yeah benito just cut it out okay uh just put a big boop over it or something well then i'm gonna have to cut out all the context to them ways people become emotional with the mere mention of her name well that's not her that's the intro probably hit the at the end of the bar just just yeah just what do you call scrub it you've reached the end of this preview you went too far you've reached the end just like steven spielberg you've reached the end of this movie to see more all right you have to buy it well good we just know this was just the ungrim segment i just want to do one ungrim segment with funny voices and laughter well music no that's no good you can't play you shouldn't have played it because there's music in it i don't think that was real music i don't think we have to worry about i don't know i'm more worried about audible getting mad at me to be promoting their books audible come on i keep saying that but that doesn't stop it doesn't matter yeah doesn't seem to matter that's why i said oh it's a pretty good book that you'd probably want to listen to on audible can i have one fit yes i see this and that's why i highlighted it in red so you can avoid it or so you could come to it so i could come to it because it says jeff's effing had it it's orange are you colorblind no i just missed i pushed okay i you know i just wanted to make sure no i know it's orange i was painting a picture for the people at home who can't see it what is the problem jeff google rolls gemini and more apps okay meanwhile i still cannot get google gemini embedded in my google you didn't do the read no you got it i capitalized google i still cannot get google gemini in more apps okay meanwhile i still cannot get google gemini embedded in my google word chrome on my google chromebook with a google workspace account wtf you didn't you said you couldn't do voices you can do voices i can but i don't know what that was it doesn't you don't have to know what it is definitely don't i'm pissed so what are you upset about in my browser in my google chrome my google chromebook under my google workspace account i can't get google gemini all everybody else using chrome has gemini in there so i and everybody else using chrome doesn't want it well but i'm the one person in the world who does and i can't get it so here's our jeff i'll let you know what you're missing every time i write an email now somewhere between oh i got it and 44 percent of the words have a little angry purple that's just like what if you change this to be something worse that's not how nila patel would say it all right and the red doesn't do auto it's not like show my screen this is the rundown right this is the thing do you not have this little guy here that you wrote it rotates when you click it it says ask gemini no i do i do and i do in sheets i do in gmail i don't in chrome browser oh in that i want to use it to see what happens just i want it to analyze you know tabs and things like that ah that's what i want okay i have it i have it in gmail i have it in sheets i have it in docs but i don't have it for some reason in a chrome browser on a chrome book that is odd it's really odd google come on man come on i'm not joking now you should get computer yeah you should get really honestly just get rid of your computer get computer yeah toss that computer and get computer truth is on my computer i can't have computer oh no perplexity computer on your computer because my computer is a chrome computer do we have any insight on my computer i can't have computer is a perfect sentence i'm just like we can't have another computer-based title after last week but there was last week's title i didn't i didn't hear it you got to download computer i think really yeah i thought it was the second week no it was you gotta get you gotta get computer it was last week you gotta get computer yeah all right this week i'm gonna title it we have computer at home uh we can't get computer at home though jeff can't have computer at home no computer do we have anything to say about jay graber stepping down at blue sky ceo blue sky stepping up i frankly think more ceos should step down when they're like i shouldn't be the ceo of a company of this size i think it's great she was there from the beginning when it was great research project great work and made it into something especially as as x uh disintegrated she did wonderful work uh and tony schneider who's stepping in as the uh interim ceo is great he's a uh a nice investor and has worked very closely with matt and he's just 10 his companies he's just gonna bring in a real c uh he's acting he acted the ceo of wordpress of uh automatic for a while tony's great um so uh We should find out what Matt Masdix has to say because he's on the board.

2:40:13Oh, yes, we should. Are we trying to get Mike on? I would like to.

2:40:17Guy Kawasaki:You have to find a four and a half minute window that works for his schedule. I could tell you one thing. William Shatner did not get$42 from Jay Graber. He did get$42 from Elon Musk. So there. this is the new so x is now doing x money you i guess you have to be a you know fading movie star to to get the access but uh last month shatner said musk sent him 42 through x money which helped shatner raise 200 000 for charity good for him have you seen the rate will shatner raisin brand commercial yes it's quite funny it was on the super bowl uh here bringing you fiber to the masses with collog's raisin prep it was a little it was a little it was a little edgy edgy yeah i love shatner and i wish him the best he says um one day musk writes to me well i don't have my fortune tied up in cash it's all in ownership of the varieties of companies shatter said so i jokingly say well if you need a few dollars i can lend you a few dollars instead musk sent him 42 for a nod to the hitchhiker's guide of the galaxy and uh and now i'm not sure exactly how he turned this into a big charitable contribution i guess oh i get it he says i got 42 from elon i'll sell each of these dollars he offered donors access to the beta in exchange for contributions for a thousand dollars donors will receive one dollar from the x money account he said he thought he would get 42 000 or a thousand dollars for every buck but the first round sent out sold out so fast musk sent another 42 dollars and so basically they're in this cooperative to promote x money which if you ask me i wouldn't go near but okay fine do they do they believe that money is not fungible like i don't understand this at all yeah because you're not getting a physical dollar bill signed by elon musk you're just getting a dollar in your x money account but that oh that did give you access to it because if somebody who has an x money account sends you money now you have an x money account okay so So whatever you do, folks, do not send me any X money.

2:42:49I do not want it. Don't send me any X money. Last ad, and then we're going to do our picks of the week. If you don't mind, boys and girls, you're watching Intelligent Machines with a groggy Paris Martineau and a fading Jeff Jarvis. I have worn them down. I have worn them down. I did. Did you miss me from last week? I bet Jason Heiner didn't wear you down, did he? no he kept the show moving oh paris you're muted he actually had a very hard out because the podcast

2:43:23Guy Kawasaki:studio he was in was going to kick him out if we did a show this long yeah so he would have been gone eight minutes ago a large cane would have come from stage right and pulled him off this episode of intelligent machines brought to you by stash have you dabbled in investing here and there but haven't been happy with how things are going stash helps turn good intentions into consistent progress stash isn't just another investing app it's a registered investment advisor that combines automated investing with expert personalized guidance so you don't have to worry about gambling or figuring it out on your own stash is simple smart and stress-free choose from personalized investments let stash's award-winning smart portfolio do the work for you or pick a combo of both.

2:44:12Stash is there to help guide you every step of the way. Join over 1 million active Stash subscribers. And finally, let your money work as hard as you do. Don't let your money sit around. Put it to work with Stash. Go to get.stash.com slash IM to see how you can receive$25 towards your first stock purchase and to view important disclosures. That's get.stash.com slash IM. Get.stash.com. Paid non-client endorsement, not a guarantee nor representative of all clients. Smart portfolios are discretionary managed accounts and subject to additional fees. See the advisory agreement and deposit account agreement for details.

2:44:54Investment advisory services offered by Stash Investments, LLC, and SEC registered investment advisor. Investing involves risk. Now it's time for our picks of the week. that should liven things up who wants to start let's let's let uh paris start um i'm trying to

2:45:15Guy Kawasaki:decide whether i want to invite everybody okay i won't um you're playing too many games already they i know they want to know no this is becoming a did you pick your handle by the way or is that it yeah i did pick my handle apparently you can just set your handle to anything so i could just change it to the letter a it's not unique but i just killer i thought it was kind of funny stone Stone Cold Killer. Stone Cold Killer. So I guess my pick will be, it's labeled I'm going crazy under my picks. I've descended into coffee madness. Uh-oh. I have recently been optimizing my pour-over setup. As I've talked about in the show, I've got a brew lager now going on.

2:45:53Guy Kawasaki:This is your vibe coded, right? I vibe coded. But this photo that I'm showing is I realized that I think my issues with coffee consistency might be because my manual grinder isn't producing an even distribution of particles. So I found a website that I guess could actually be my pick of the week. I'll find it in one second. Oh, you have a 292.27 micrometer standard deviation. I know. And my particle size was way too high to begin with. And see, if you look, you have one that's up there that's 1 ,226 microns and another from the exact same batch that's 950 microns. But how does it taste, Paris?

2:46:39Guy Kawasaki:It tastes good, but sometimes the thing is I started doing this because I had dialed in a great coffee recipe. I had like 92 clicks on my onesie presso J manual grinder. And this wonderful coffee from Perk that I'd really recommend called the Ethiopia Chelcha, which is an anaerobic natural process that has phenomenal blueberry strawberry. This is what Jeff was deeply afraid of. But I was getting some of my best cups. This is why she's an investigative reporter. It's lovely. She's putting red string up. But then I changed nothing about my setup. I've got my Herio switch. I'm doing a four, six pour method.

2:47:23Guy Kawasaki:I've got ranging from 205 degrees to 210. But sometimes I would get a nine out of 10 cup. And the next day I'd get a five out of 10 cups. And I was like, what is the issue? And the issue is that my particle size is trash. And so now what I've realized I'm going to do is go to, i'm gonna put this also in the rundown so you can click on it i found a place in greenpoint called hyonia club which is a coffee club for freaks where you can pay 15 to get a day pass and try out they have every fancy coffee equipment you could imagine and you can try them all out and determine whether or not it's actually worth spending 200 plus dollars on a grinder 200 oh that's not a good enough grinder you need to spend well i don't know five hundred dollars on this dude i'm gonna try i'm gonna try the laser well this is what you need that's an espresso grinder i don't make espresso oh that's right you need a regular grinder i need i could i don't know necessarily that i want to even pay for an electric grinder because we have a barraza more cost to it and i'm only making 20 grams of coffee at a time however i might pay like $400 for a manual grinder, which is great.

2:48:43Doesn't the CR Lab have like every grinder available? Yeah. Well, that's a great point.

2:48:50Guy Kawasaki:We haven't tested manual and specialty coffee grinders, and I think that could be a great avenue for us to explore. Oh, maybe this is what she's working on, huh? You've got to pitch that story now. I'm going to. As I've gotten into this, I downloaded this great book called The Physics of Filter Coffee. I am like losing my mind. Do you watch James Hoffman's reviews? No, although I've, because I don't like YouTube videos. But I have read a lot of these. Yes, I know. But I'm like trying to get more into the physics of it rather than specifically coffee influencers because their vibes change. He's not an influencer.

2:49:26He's really a coffee expert. I would. Yes, he's an expert.

2:49:30Guy Kawasaki:I follow the recipe I'm using is by another expert like this. And I was using a Hoffman recipe for a while. But. I got to get you on with a coffee geek. We've done coffee shows on the club. We'll do a special coffee show with you and the coffee geek. Because I think Mark Prince is fantastic. And he is an expert on all this stuff. He does like his espresso. The other thing I would recommend, I wanted to buy this. I almost did. This is a brewer that does pour over automatically for a more consistent. I mean, I don't know. And it has a pit and everything. so you can based on the thing that says ratio four makes me suggest suggest to me that it might be a four six brewing method but i think part of it is i do i'm making coffee for just me and it really it makes one cup it takes five minutes literally in the morning from grinding i think the hand grinding's got to stop i don't the hand grinding so leo i was right there with you two months ago i was over at a friend's house don't use the ozo though that's terrible that's a horrible i i was at, I mean, listen, the OXO was a problem, but I was at a friend's house and he was manually coffee grinding in the morning and I was like, what is this, the Stone Age?

2:50:42Guy Kawasaki:Are you an idiot? And then I did more research and I was like, no, honestly, you can get some good stuff. But I think what I've realized is I need to, it all depends on your particle size distribution. So this is an app? The Grind Size Analyzer? Is this an app? Yes, I need to actually find where it is on i got it right here the grind size analyzer so you use your phone you take a picture you upload it and it will tell you all right i'm going to do this it's just a web app uh it's a website right i want to do this yeah it's not a you're right it's just a url unspecialty dot edu so i will do this with our baraza grinder and i'll let you know you know there's certainly some uh problems with it like obviously you're just taking a photo you can't despite what the instructions say have the grinds go um over little boxes um but i would suggest doing it a couple times with samples from all from the top and bottom of your grind cup because it'll it'll differentiate because you got boulders up top and fines below as i well know now but uh hysterical so actually the website is it's ruining my life low-key but it's also resulting in delightful coffee and so my last how many cups a day do you drink one in the morning yeah see that's my problem is i can only drink one in the morning but it's when it's but if it's a really good ethiopia chelcha when i'm making it right it tastes like like strong blueberry and strawberry notes so i would also recommend a light it's like light medium yeah over there i also recently just got a bag in today from hydrangea roasters it's gonna be a lighter one i'm trying but i would really recommend people check out this ethiopia chelchia from perk coffee and if you're listening to this uh later this week on the 13th perk this is not an ad i just really like this one thing of perk is kind of obsessed with the number 13 so on the 13th of every month this roaster gives you 31 off any order of their site so i don't know if you want to try a fancy coffee you can get it for a third off it's kind of fun i might uh i might try this i usually just make espresso but uh this chelsea i don't know how this is it like how's it like is it compared to your gachefe which is what we it's an ethiopian yurga chefe oh it is it's just they call it it's from the ghetto zone i believe chelsea might be the producer oh okay yeah i really like your gachefe i really really like yeah i'm a big they're doing this just for this and so on their website they have espresso uh brewing instructions as well and this is uh an anaerobic natural process jeff this is you know some of is it washed it's not washed is it it's not washed and but you know one of the things i've been getting really into is co-ferments have you heard about this they're a bit controversial in the coffee world but i think that's dumb it's where the fermentation process they introduce additional fruits in there and see what goes on just to annoy jeff i am he looks like he's being tortured oh we're torturing him we're just torturing him we do aero press around here with a barrazza grinder and it produces a pretty good cup of coffee but uh you know i i heard about soup all the aero press boys are doing soup now look it up soup in an aero press that's it's not it's not actual soup it's a method of brewing coffee that's called soup soup okay and apparently it's the hot thing in more ways than one so uh your recommendation also is the which subreddit the pour over separate it i it's a blessing and a curse the r slash pour over has caused all these things that just that word vomit i've never done pour over i never got pour over Because when I was a kid, we had a Chemex and we would pour the coffee into the Chemex.

2:54:43But this is a little different.

2:54:44Guy Kawasaki:No, no, no, no. That's what I've realized. So before all of this, me, a fool, three months ago, I was doing the Chemex. Little did I realize the Chemex filters, they're stripping all the flavors I want out of that. Oh, no. Plus the Krabby grinder I was using. I was paying for all this fancy coffee. I was getting trash. It's like a whole, I've got a Herio switch now, which allows me to do both immersion and percolation. but it's glass because i got the glass one because i'm worried about microplastics so i've got to preheat it it's a it's a diet what happens when you add caffeine to this mania here's my question how long does it take you to make your coffee in the morning um from stepping over to my kitchen to drinking coffee less than five minutes oh that's all right the actual brew time is 250 to It feels like you're doing a lot of stuff No, this is all the thinking that I do before, after around the brewing I have just joined slash r slash pour over, so uh oh, look at this Yeah, everybody's making fun of that guy That's a portable kit, ready to go Got everything you need for your pour over.

2:56:02Is that the kind of manual

2:56:03Guy Kawasaki:grinder you have there is uh yes that is the kind of manual grinder yeah i can't believe that seems there was a video someone posted of someone on an airplane brewing coffee because they had a whoever a stag fellow stag ekg kettle all the stuff this is a great group because it's people really who are not embarrassed uh they're among friends and they can share their obsessions all All right, so if people out there who've listened to all this and understood have any thoughts as to whether I should get a ZP6 or a K Ultra Grinder, please let me know. Or if I should spring for the Pietro, but that might be crazy.

2:56:45Guy Kawasaki:You're crazy. What I value is fruitiness, and that's not covered by any… Yeah, see, that's hard to do, and you don't get that in an espresso. Because the ZP6 is clarity-focused, but at the sacrifice of body. And the K-Ultra might be too body-focused that I wouldn't get my flavor separation. It's maddening, I tell you. I'm so sorry. Poco, I have the Ninja Luxe. Actually, it's quite a good coffee maker, but probably not in the category that Paris, I think. But I actually, for$500, it's a really good coffee maker, the Ninja from Shark. All right. Now you make me want a cup of coffee. The problem is the sun's gone over the yardarm.

2:57:29it's not time for coffee i have to drink in the morning or i won't sleep well yeah i was just

2:57:34Guy Kawasaki:saying i don't even think i could do decaf or something about the idea of just drinking coffee like beverage that would make me feel awake that's all i drink is decaf what you really need is a percolator get one of those hamilton beach percolators i used to have mom my house it was on all day long and you leave it running yep and you have you could drink all day but you make it Lona would come over to visit my mother and sit down with them. Coffee's on. Come on over. Have a coffee, Clatch. Jeff Jarvis, your pick of the week. Well, so we can talk about how much culture has changed. Two things. One, the Hollywood Reporter reports that YouTube is now the world's largest media company.

2:58:16Yeah, isn't that amazing? I actually bookmarked that as a story. That's unbelievable. YouTube had more than said 62 billion dollars revenue which beats Disney's 62 billion dollars bigger than Disney so who was it here who did this Moffat Nathanson analysts estimate its value on its own at 500 to 560 billion versus Netflix which has a market cap of 409 billion Wow total revenue of 40 billion but that's point that's ad revenue plus subscription business yeah cuz I I subscribe to YouTube TV. I give them my 80 bucks a month. YouTube has around 10 million subscribers now, which will soon overtake, eventually, Charter and Comcast.

2:59:02Yeah. So that's our present world. But I want to take you, children, to the past. What's that? The year is 1994. What's that, Grandpa? Yeah. The year is 1994. Yeah. And in that time, it was so exciting every fall that we would have an entire one-hour special. In addition to having the guide special, we had a one-hour special of - Now you can see why he was San Francisco's most eligible bachelor, can't you, Paris? Well, one of ours. E.T.'s, Entertainment Tonight's Fall TV Special. So I swept in the link below. You can keep the sound off. Can we watch it? Yes, you can. There it is. There it is. You want to watch for Mary Hart's hair.

2:59:52You can press any button you want. Television season is upon us, and it is truly out of this world. I can do wonders. They had such big ties. Where do you show up? So if you go to the link that's...

3:00:07Guy Kawasaki:Yeah, we're in the 45 minutes. Oh, yeah. In 207, I'm there, if you go to the link. When I was in my early radio days, right around this time, maybe a few years earlier, I would record and watch ET every night looking for gossip I could use on my radio show the next day so 207 I I I swept across to just find out whose birthday it is is watching ET that used to be the only we had to do this yes we had to do that all right let's jump to Jeff's appearance on entertainment tonight with it was it Mary Hart yeah I'm John Tesh and John Tesh wait a minute no it's the beginning i don't know it should it should be at the time code no i gotta look at the link again uh start at 42 minutes all right i can't zip my pants up i'm mary hart the old one very hard story comes to the small screen does that mean i'm under arrest and the good guys get the bad guys this is chasing crooks it's so et it's up and a beauty earns it's wonderfully written that's a crazy little floating box you missed him judges tom shales of the washington post tv guides jeff jarvis and jonathan storm walking down a hole b-roll that was a good show one season yeah well there was that i also panned friends and girl I'm sure some critic will say there's no business like Choban.

3:01:40I like Tom Shales. Tom Shales. Is he still around? No, he's died. I don't know this guy.

3:01:46Guy Kawasaki:I watched that recently. Three white guys tell you about TV. So these were your picks, huh? Of all three of them, you were the one that picked the show that... Oh, what did you hate? One of the shows to be first canceled with McKenna. Chad Everett comes back and, boy, is he old. He's in a little bit of trouble, I think, this year with his show. it's possible that martin short will not get to air why is daddy's girls the absolute worst this season daddy's girl there really ought to be oh dudley moore no no no yeah i was looking at all these all right ladies and gentlemen that's a little glimpse of 1994 seen through the lens of one jeffrey t jarvis thank you very much i have so many things i could show you this one i think is good for paris it's called payphone go it's like pokemon go oh i've seen this and i want to play it's only with payphones oh no another game where's the nearest payphone to you don't oh that's a good question i have to get a an id and all that but you find a payphone And you go to it and you get points for going to it.

3:02:51Wow, there don't look like...

3:02:53Guy Kawasaki:There are so many payphones in San Francisco. Yeah, but out here in the boonies, I don't see a lot of payphones. What are the different colors, man? I don't know. So it says, use the map to locate a payphone. Pick up the receiver, dial 888-683-6697. And then enter your player ID. the first person to call from a play phone pay phone gets 20 points second person gets 10 third gets five oh look there's a pay phone there are two in petaluma so i wonder what there's one there's two at the fairgrounds and there's one here and each has one claim just around the corner from our old studio i love this game this is awesome yeah so you go you make it all and you get points go to brooklyn should we go to brooklyn all right let's zoom out yeah wait no it's only in california no really it says california still has only 2 000 that's no fun why you gotta expand it oh man well i guess you can't play payphone go i mean it's probably just one dude sitting at home made this so you know yeah oh of course it is how did you find out the payphones you look oh there must be some there must be some public record right public records well these aren't our phone company phones anymore they're they're no in fact henry's best friend's father made a killing because he bought all of at &t's pay phones they wanted to get out of the business it was a real pain to go around each phone collect all the dimes so he put cell phones in the pay phones and he already had a business selling a restock he would sell ice cream in freezers you know how you go to a bodega and there's a freezer and there's ice cream in it he had a really good business it turns out it's not an ice cream business it's a logistic business he put he made sure that the freezer cases had scales in the feet so they wouldn't bother restocking him until the weight of the freezer was low enough to justify it and he realized i could do the same thing with a payphone coin case so i would save time and money only collecting when the payphone is full brilliant he's very wealthy very wealthy got all those payphones for a song here's a company that wants to pay you 800 to bully ai this might be a good job for you paris um the company wants candidates with extensive personal history of being let down by technology the eight-hour session is intended to promote the startup's ai memory tool if that's your job go to professional ai bully and get paid to bully ai oh only one person gets the job memvid.com this sounds a little bit like a promotional vehicle one person oh sounds like we're making a pariah for all the ai to kill at the end when it all and then i did get you something this is for you benito it's called tweak bench your favorite producers favorite plugins these are all the vst plugins used by fav by famous producers i know you want to write your own with claude code this is awesome though that's great i thought you might like this your favorite producers favorite plugins lol i'm sure what the lol is all about but and they're you know five bucks they're not expensive yeah i mean there's a whole there's a whole range of free ones too that are like that's true yeah no i know yeah i don't know what the deal is with this these are tweak bench plugins so i guess this is a company that does plugins but five bucks nice price get the whole tweak bench bumble bundle for 60 bucks ladies and gentlemen we have now filled our order cornucopia to the brim with good don't make it last time we did a three and a half uh hour pod it's been a minute three hours and 12 minutes you you think we started i logged in to three hours and 33 minutes like flight attendants don't get paid until the doors close the doors doesn't start counting the doors don't close until i push the button and leo spent those first 30 minutes trying to figure out how zoom browser works i'm going to figure that out before the next episode you've said that so many times one of these days thank you so much uh to guy kawasaki a wonderful guest a wonderful guy really enjoyed talking to him uh it's probably not too late to email him and get his book for free on in a kindle form just email everybody has something to hide at gmail.com and guy will send you a copy thank you paris martineau she is doing her coffee research for consumer reports where she's an investigative journalist so nice to see you you got the hawaiian shirt on when'd you do that i missed that at the beginning when we all change you were too busy trying to get fix zoom to work uh thanks to jeff jarvis put on his hawaiian black hoodie yeah yeah uh jeff of course the author of the gutenberg parenthesis magazine and soon hot tight not so soon now uh it was going to come out june 11 hot type but with a production delay they were going to push it into july and i kind of had a little fit and i said that's death time so now it's coming out at the end of august but you can pre-order it now still so july is not a good time for her book to come out no because everyone's gone and they're in the hot type the magnificent machine that gave birth to mass media and drove mark twain mad available july 23rd amazon has that to august now have you read the uh did you do the audible i haven't done it yet no no but it is going to be available yes okay good yep so do me a favor whenever you do mark twain's voice can you do it like that mark twain here well who who was it who played mark twain um hal holbrook hal holbrook i think i now have to do my hal holbrook mark twain good night do you do tonight do you do a hal holbrook well should we play a little bit for paris on the way out here of mark twain tonight yeah sure why not if we haven't been taken down yet this i wish i'd seen it i think there were broadcast versions of it wait if you're gonna he would go around the country that's not gonna they're not gonna let us that on put even post this on youtube it's not music okay it's not music it's just hal holbrook on stage talking like mark twain from 1967.

3:09:39so it's probably not even in copyright anymore he did a pretty good credible job with this man is really the most interesting jackass there is

3:09:49Guy Kawasaki:why is he dressed like colonel sanders at the end of his life that's what twain wore admire him he used to twain himself used to go around and do lectures this is all in fact he had to because the machine that he backed to compete with the linotype bankrupted him and late in life he had to go around the world giving talks to make money to make his money back would have been fun to see him though i bet he was oh god yeah i should do that voice though don't you think yeah there's a lot of twain uh quotes i think i could do that yeah see i'm glad we got some voices in so this wasn't so grim thank you for joining us we do intelligent machines every wednesday uh right we finish by thursday it's we're usually done by thursday we start at 2 p.m pacific 5 p.m eastern 2100 UTC Twitch, YouTube, TikTok no not TikTok, X Facebook, LinkedIn and Kik of course in the Club Twit Discord and thank you Club Twit members for making this show possible we really appreciate your support without that I don't know if we'd be here, I really don't so we thank you for keeping us on if you're not a member yet, quick go to twit.tv slash Club Twit and join after the fact on demand versions the show available at twitter.tv slash im there's a youtube video channel dedicated to the show great for sharing clips can you use the rest to do a little voice can you do a little voice for the rest of the thing yeah what voice should we do um or a transatlantic a mid-atlantic actor mid-atlantic yeah well thank you for joining us on this fine show and we'll be back again next week for another thrilling gripping edition of intelligent machines good night Martha and save a beer see you on the radio see you on the radio download computer you can't get computer on his computer see hi there Leo Laporte here I just wanted to let you know about some of the other shows we do on this network.

3:12:09You probably already know about This Week in Tech. Every Sunday, I bring together some of the top journalists in the tech field to talk about the tech stories. It's a wonderful chance for you to keep up on what's going on with tech, plus be entertained by some very bright and fun minds. I hope you'll tune in every Sunday for This Week in Tech. Just go to your favorite podcast client and subscribe. This Week in Tech from the Twit Network. Thank you. Human being Not into this animal scene I'm an intelligent machine