Paul Tudor Jones - Lessons From 50 Years in Markets - [Invest Like the Best, EP.470]

27:59And the reason why it's so important is if I go back to that conference 18 months ago, I would say a significant portion of the scientists there envision a future where humanity is going to have a chip in our brain that's going to allow us to access so much knowledge, power, etc. So I'm just kind of looking down the road and thinking, okay, we really need to know what we're reading, what we're looking at, because, again, that group, without having any feedback from the rest of America, thinks that a blended human with a machine is perfectly acceptable, is the future, should have inalienable rights.

28:42For me, I don't think that's the case. I'd vote no. I think most humans would vote no. So coming back to some of these themes of investor versus trader, risk management, etc., I know you learned a lot from this guy, Eli Tullis. I love these lessons that were formative for you for what became the trading legend that you now are. What did he teach you? And was there any specific episode from your time with him that taught you the biggest or most important lesson? God, he was so strong. He was really good at executing at the maximum apogee of fear as well as greed. He was so good at smelling that.

29:25Because he traded hardly anything but cotton, he would just sit there and he would just focus. He was just so good at waiting for exactly when there was just too much elation or when there was too much fear. And so that was really helpful. And then I would say the number one thing I learned from him was we were so long cotton one weekend and there was a great drought, spectacular drought. And of course, it rained all through the belt over the weekend. Walk in, market was limit down. He'd gotten absolutely smashed. I thought, oh, my God, it's over. that day for lunch, his wife brought in four of her friends.

30:06He had the most beautiful office I've ever seen in my life. And he came out and just, oh my God, he had a smile on his face. Oh, ladies. And flirting with the wives. I mean, I said, they're going, are you kidding me? This guy's broke. And he's acting like he's Rock Hudson or something. Wow. Boy, I tell you what, I'll never forget that one to this day. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. You wear it here and you have that confidence you're going to come back. Hugely important. Feels like the right time to ask you just what trading means to you. You've said before that the whole world is just this interconnected series of capital flows.

30:46And part of the job is being on top of that and taking positions based on what's going on in the world. But mostly I interview investors who buy stakes in companies. I very rarely interview someone that is moving and putting on major positions in any sort of asset class or trading instrument. I would love to just you describe what to you trading is. Like what is the literal act that you are doing every day with such excellence for decades? There's a couple of metaphors that come to mind. Let's start with boxing because you have an opponent, in this case, it's the market. You know, you're going into the ring with this opponent who's after you the whole time.

31:26And I'm thinking more of a classic one as opposed to a Mike Tyson one. But you're kind of pairing, jabbing, feeling each other out, looking for an opening. And then every now and then you'll have a great opening and you take a big shot and you may land one. If I think about big shots, Bitcoin 2020, a knockout, two-year rates, 2022, knockout. You have these incredible opportunities at times if you just sit and wait. The whole time in the interim, some of it you're just gathering information, looking for those openings. You're always trying to make progress. You're always trying to win the round.

32:10But there'll be those few opportunities where you can do something really material. I love the boxing analogy. In the examples you gave, Bitcoin, two-year raids, precious metals, so many things you've been through. What is going on in one of those? Maybe pick one. And I'm literally curious what you are doing in the moments, what you're looking at, what you're studying, what supply demand imbalances you see. What is the literal nature of one of these windows that opens every so often? If you think about all the really big moves, it's probably because the market has gotten too carried away or there's been some imbalance that's gone on for too long or a central bank does something that they shouldn't be doing or a government does something they shouldn't be doing.

32:58So that's, I think, the genesis of most of the big moves. Typically, it's going to be inspired by a central bank or central government. A good one right now in the making that's going to be interesting, I think, is dollar yen. The yen's grossly undervalued, has been for some time. What's the catalytic moment? That's really the point you've got to ask. And that catalytic moment in this case was this new prime minister that was just elected. And she has all the characteristics of a Ronald Reagan or a Margaret Thatcher or Donald Trump when he got elected the second time. And if you look at what those local currencies did, they all appreciated pretty quickly 10 % off the bat.

33:43I want to say Japan has$4.5 trillion, a$4.5 trillion net international investment position to the good with the rest of the world. Probably 60 % of that's in the U.S. And most of that is unhedged. So they just had this massive dollar liability. And all of a sudden, we've now got the most dynamic leader in certainly a half a century in Japan, whose Japan first is going to have a very entrepreneurial way that she is going to remake that economy. So you're looking for something that's under-owned, undervalued, way out of whack. People have gotten complacent on it, and you're looking for that catalytic moment.

34:29In the case of the two-year rates in 22, we had way too much fiscal stimulus. And then Powell, he overstayed being easy way too long because he wanted Biden to reappointing. So as soon as Biden reappointing, it was go time to get short two-year notes because you knew the Fed was going to normalize. And then in 2020, you saw, again, all the interventions, both the central bank and the Treasury. You just knew that the inflation trades were going to take off. And of all of them, what was the best one at that point in time? It was Bitcoin. Bitcoin is unequivocally the best inflation hedge that there is, more than gold, because Bitcoin is finite.

35:18There's only so much Bitcoin that can be mined. The problem with it is inflation hedges. If you got into kinetic exchange, there's clearly going to be cyber warfare. Anything that you have to deal with electronically is going down, including Bitcoin. So strike one. And then secondly, quantum computing, who knows if and when with AI advancing as fast as it is that we may actually have quantum computing. Now, quantum computing, someone can come in and can hack any bank and hack anything they want to. So in terms of it being a great inflation hedge, gold increasing supply every year by a couple of percent.

35:56Bitcoin has a finite amount that can be mined. It's decentralized. And so in that sense, it has the greatest scarcity value of anything. If you think about the big ones that you've lived through, 87, the global financial crisis, COVID, et cetera, various bubbles, asset bubbles through history, maybe say a little bit about those general experiences. You're very famous for what happened in 1987, of course. I'm curious about those ones because I'm curious what you think about today's environment. Are we in a bubble is a very popular question. Mostly that's answered by investors, less so by traders.

36:30And so I would love your perspective on the big ones that you've experienced historically and how those lessons apply to today. If I think of some really, really big accidents, most of them have the same underlying reason, same underlying foundation, which is too much leverage somewhere. Most of the leverage, most of the time, if I think of the big ones were derivative inspired, either futures or options. 1987, that crash was 100 % portfolio insurance, 100%. Had they had limits, which they didn't, it had been a 10%, maybe 15 % max, but that was 100 % derivatives. If I think about 1998, long-term capital, big derivatives, had a huge balance sheet with a lot of derivatives they were offsides on.

37:202000 was a little different. 2000 was the easiest bear market I've ever seen in my whole life. It's got so many similarities to right now in the sense that the bear market of 2001 and 2002 were a consequence of all the IPOs in 99, 2000. And then as they unlocked, you just had this never ending. Cascade of selling. Cascade of selling. That's a great way of putting it. And we're getting ready. I want to say that the contemplated IPOs the next year are going to be 5%, 6 % of market cap. So why are we where we are right now? Because we've been retiring 2 % or 3 % of market cap, probably a little less than 2 % of market cap every year without fail for the past 10 years.

38:07Through buybacks and things like this. Through buybacks. And so now all of a sudden you're going to completely reverse that math. And so I don't think it necessarily happens instantaneously with the IPOs, but then there'll be the unlocks. So you can see a situation where, okay, maybe go through some kind of rolling top. And then 18 months from now, six months, we'll have to look at the unlocked schedule. But you're going to want to watch those because that'll just be adding equity supply. And you're already going to be diminishing the buybacks because of all the commitment to CapEx from the hyperscalers.

38:42They're already going to be eating into their cash flow. So I think that's why tech has dogged it and why it will continue to dogged it because all the funding, much of the funding for these IPOs is going to come out of existing tech stock. When you say, are we in a bubble? I don't know if we're necessarily in a bubble. We're clearly so leveraged in equities in this country. We're so dependent upon firm equity prices at this point in time. And when I say leveraged, we're 252 % of stock market cap of GDP. So 1929, we were, I think at the top, we were 65%. And then in 87, we got to about 85 or 90%.

39:29In 2000, we got to 170%. And now we're at 252. So you can just imagine, if you think about the periodicity of significant bear markets. Since 1970, we get kind of a mean reversion about on average every 10 years. And when I say mean reversion, let's say mean revert to the past 25 or 30 year PE. So if we did that here, that would be, and again, these are elevated PEs, way elevated beyond the 20th century, that would be a, say, a 30, 35 % decline. Well, 35 % on 250 % of GDP is 80, 90 % of GDP, the reverse wealth effect. Oh my gosh. 10 % of our tax revenues or capital gains, they go to zero. So you can see the budget deficit blowing up.

40:22You can see the bond market getting smoke, you can see this kind of negative self-reinforcing effect. And so it's troubling. It's troubling. So are we in a bubble? We're clearly in a sovereign debt bubble. In the stock market, we're over-equitized as a country. I have the highest individual equity weightings in the history of the country. And then the real problem is that we're also, So if you look at private equity in 2007, 2008, that was about 7 % of institutional portfolios. Now it's about 16 % of the institutional portfolios. Real estate's gone up. Infrastructure bets have gone up. We're so much more illiquid than we were in 2008.

41:07So you have to be cognizant of that fact when you think about how you have your money deployed. I had a friend ask me, he was a wealth manager and he hates hedge fund because of the fees. He just says, we just need to put money in the S &P 500. He said, if you were investing for 20 years, what would you tell somebody? Because he knows that I'm supposed to say, you just buy the S &P, close your eyes. Well, the problem is that if you buy the S &P at this current valuation, the 10-year forward returns negative when you buy with the S &P P of 22. That's what history shows. So yes, the S &P is a spectacular long-term.

41:46if you have a 100-year view. But that's because that's an average of 100 years, including times when the S &P 500 PE was six and seven and eight or one-third of what it is right now. So valuation matters a lot. And the stock market's really high. And it's going to be really hard to make money from here, I think, with any kind of long-term view. If I came and shattered you on a given day today, how does it go? What are you doing? What does a day look like today? I know you have a system that you can be heard by all times by your execution traders. I know it's intense, but walk us through a day in the life.

42:23I get up at 6.15. I work till 7 o 'clock. I go work out till 7.45. I try to do 45 minutes of hard cardio every day. I get in front of the screens for the opening. I typically won't have any meetings till 10 o 'clock, and then I'll probably do meetings till about 12 o 'clock. Typically have lunch with someone, have a meeting after lunch, try to make sure that I've got an hour before the close and an hour after the close to be able to map out what I want to do the next day. Because, again, I want to have a plan as well as think what's going to happen that night in Tokyo, Hong Kong. I'll go home around five, walk with my wife for an hour, go up work for an hour, come back down and eat.

43:13I'll normally watch the news in the most mindless entertainment that I possibly can. I used to read a book and a half a week. And then once the internet came, forget it. I'm so tired of reading by the nighttime. I've read one book in the last year, which is going to be, by the way, I recommend everyone read it. It's David Wood. He's a newsletter writer, but he's written what's going to be a spectacular bestseller on globalization markets. It's fantastic. and I'll bet you it's made a Netflix series and I'll bet you it's going to be a banger. Anyway, I'll try to watch something on Netflix. Then I'll work from, say, 9.30 to 10.15 and then go to bed and I'll wake up at...

43:566.15 in different times? No, no, no. I'll wake up at probably 2.30 or 3 and I'll work for half an hour, watch London Open for 45 minutes, half an hour. I'll do a lot of analytical work then. It's a quiet time. It's good. Then I'll go back to sleep and wake up at 6.15. Wow. And you've been doing that for 50 years. Yeah, I've been doing that certainly since the 80s. I feel like I worked so much harder than I did 40 years ago, 30 years ago. Because there's more information. Oh, my God. I get 800, 1 ,000 emails a day. If I think about when I was a pit trader, I think about even the 80s when there was so much less information.

44:32I could spend more of my time intently focusing on what the highs and lows were going to be in the day, which are really important for execution, doing what my boss Eli did, just waiting, paying attention, focusing, are we at a point of maximum pain? Is there so much fear right now, which is a great time to buy? Does it look like it's going to go up forever? A great time to sell. You have to be intentional to be able to pick those points in a day. And when you're training 25 different instruments, instrument by instrument by instrument, a lot of times they'll be correlated. Sometimes they're not.

45:10You have to be very intentional about that. So if while you're doing that, there's 48 emails coming in at the same time, all of which could be actionable information. I think today, for me at least, it's just a lot, lot harder, I think, because the information overload distracts me from exquisite execution. What does that mean, exquisite execution? Am I buying when there's blood on the ground and am I selling when there's complete elation? Let's take last Friday, where we had the largest down day in the history of gold and silver. So you have to be paying attention every minute, because when you have a 33 % move in silver in one day, you just have to be so focused on that day's activity, what you're going to do that opening, what you're going to do if the price moves to a certain price that you weren't anticipating that day.

46:14It gets back to what I learned in Bed-Stuy. You better have a plan. You better have a plan ahead of time and it better be self-executing and you better have thought through that. And I hear it from my other friends who are macro traders. I think, oh, God darn it. I just feel like I'm two hours late, three hours late. Last Friday was a great example, can be so material. If I think about what's required to do that day in, day out, there's got to be just like an enormous amount of passion for markets and what you do. Can you just talk about the notion of finding, nurturing the importance of passion in a life's work?

46:50It's so funny when we talk about traders, great traders. And again, I'm talking about people who were alpha generators, not investing. We had a dinner about, I guess it was a year ago Christmas, and I had four or five of my best risk takers at dinner. And we had the debate, a great trader is born or made. I'd say it was unanimous agreement at the table that 70 % of it is nature. And when I say born with it, by the time I was 21, I loved games. I loved chess, Backgammon, Parcheesi, Monopoly, Battle, Gin Rummy, you name it, I played it. Then I started gambling in college. I had a degree in probability theory and had never taken a math course on it, but I knew it.

47:43I was such a game fanatic and I loved it so much. If I had to pick out the number one traits, type A personality, incredibly curious and inquisitive and loves, loves competition, loves games. Because again, our whole business is just another form of probability theory. And I still love the day. I play bridge with my friends all the time. I can't get enough of that. I love any kind of game of chance. And I love trading. And the other reason that I love trading, I'll never forget, my wife's Australian. And we first got married back in 1989. nine. She said, well, I know you got to live in New York, but I came from the beach.

48:26So when our last child graduates from college, you're taking me to the beach. So sure enough, my son turns 18, my fourth child, 2014, we're going. So we ended up down here in Palm Beach. She gets me a GP, the GP, a general practitioner. She makes me go in. I see the guy. This guy's 83 years old. And I say to him, you're living here in the land of the walking dead. Everyone here is basically fossilized. What is the secret to longevity? And he goes, it's real simple. You retire, you die. And that had a really profound impact on me. Because I realize as I get older, and maybe when you get older, you will too.

49:09If you don't use it, you're going to lose it. And that's why I try to work out two hours a day. Another reason that I enjoy trading is I want to keep my mind sharp because there are too many things that I want to do when I'm, my father lived to be 100 when I'm in my 90s that I want to do. So I think trading is great therapy for me. The other reason that I really enjoy trading is I'd like to make an absolute pot of money so I can give it away. I got so many causes that I want to give it to that I actually feel like this is pursuit of nobility. I feel it's a privilege to wake up and I just hope I freaking kill it so I can give it away.

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51:02Can you tell us the story of starting Robinhood? You talked to us earlier about the charter school work and everything in Bed-Stuy. Robinhood started the year after. It's a really important part of your life and legacy. Robin Hood happened the day after the crash. Maybe the worst macro call of my life was thinking we were going to go into depression. I thought for sure. I've been looking at the parallels in 1929 for a year. All of a sudden, it happens. I think, oh my God, this is a perfect replay, a perfect analog. So I called up my friends and we began it. It was just been the most marvelous journey.

51:40I can't recommend anything more highly than getting involved with some cause that you believe in. The best part of philanthropy and charitable giving is the people you meet. Oh my gosh, I've met the greatest, most wonderful, most giving. It just brightens every aspect of your life to be associated with the best people and embody the best ideals. We say we got to do something. So the only alternative is that there really weren't any charities focused on fighting poverty, which I thought was going to be rampant at the time. So I've always believed you want to do something, you're better off doing it yourself.

52:28So we started out very small and we just applied basic business principles to finding the most efficacious way of helping people in need. Again, along the way, I'm learning by doing and making all these mistakes along the way. And I'm learning so much. And then I realized, boy, this is a science. And then we just started hiring the very best people that we could as our staff and then recruited. It was so easy to recruit people from the financial world to help. The 90s were a special time. Everyone wanted to participate and give back and help. I don't know what it was, but my gosh, we created so many fantastic philanthropists in that era.

53:18In the 80s, it was completely different. Everyone wanted to be associated with the Philharmonic. And these are all great, but they wanted to be with the name Social Charities. And I'd say after the crash, everyone found their significance by helping others. Maybe it was just because that was when really started to accumulate these big fortunes, individual fortunes for people. And they were just really, really wonderful about wanting to give back. And the whole financial community supported Robinhood such a spectacular way. And the whole hedge fund community in New York, it was really still is a joy.

53:58If you think about the whole broad world, what feels the healthiest to you today about the system that is the world that makes you the most optimistic? And where does it feel the most fragile? I'm trying to fast forward to the workless world, to where AI does so much for us that we don't have to work. And I used to have a really negative outlook on what that would be like, because if you think about it, so many of us define our significance through our work. Imagine a world where now the significance, that huge, incredibly important component of human happiness is now taken away from us because of the fact that we don't have to work.

54:43I used to really despair about that because as someone who works all the time and finds my significance, what am I going to do? But I've become more optimistic recently because as I think through how athletes find significance in the sports they do, how I play bridge with my friends and find so much significance in competing with them, I think maybe humans are adaptable enough that we'll find a different way to find significance. Maybe it's going to be in finding that intentional, simple act of kindness every day. I'm not sure what it is, but I do think that as a race, we're so unbelievably adaptable, so smart that we might be able to find out a way to find happiness.

55:33I think that's going to be the biggest challenge potentially in four or five years is what do we do when so many of our jobs have been replaced by AI? So many young people are trying to figure out what to do, what their careers are going to be. You've talked and written a lot about the power of communication, like great communication. It's like such an essential skill. Journalism is an interesting way of learning that. Can you talk just about that power as a message to young people trying to figure it out, why they should maybe focus on that? I have long maintained that better than a business school degree, Journalism 101 should be a mandatory subject in every college, which is newspaper writing in particular.

56:15It was so important to my development. So my father had a really small trade finance legal paper in Memphis, 2 ,500 person subscription. I would be the copy editor, the front page editor, and then I would write for it and took journalism classes. And what newspaper writing does is it teaches you, you have to write where the conclusion comes first. So unlike writing something, and then at the end, we get the story. Here, the end comes first. And you have to write it with this incredibly rigid discipline so that every succeeding thing that you write, the most important part is in the first sentence of the first paragraph.

57:00The first paragraph's not more than two sentences. Who, what, where, when, why, and how. That's the first one. Then the next most important thing, that's the second paragraph, no more than two sentences. The next one, same thing. What is that really? It's a principal component analysis of taking whatever event may have transpired and putting it in this cogent way where the most important stuff starts at the beginning and you work your way down through it. Particularly where today's world, the attention spans are this short and time clearly is money. You want to be able to communicate in the quickest and most concise fashion you can, where you get your entire point across in the shortest amount of time.

57:44There's that old saying, if you can't tell your story in 15 seconds or less, no one's going to listen. Never been more true than right now. Because again, if you're getting a thousand emails a day, I want to know in the first paragraph whether I want to keep reading or not. As a macro thinker, man, it helped me so much frame every potential trading decision, every single action. I could just, again, very quickly, because I had to learn how to do it, do that principal component analysis and hierarchicalize the most important things. And in trading, there's so many different variables that come into play, so many different variables that come in in making a trading decision.

58:27Let's say that there's 10 really important things. Every one of those will have its day. It'll rotate through in terms of importance. Again, the yen's a great example. It's been completely undervalued for the past 24 months, way off sides. It's so ripe to rally sharply, but it needed a catalytic moment. And that catalytic moment was this new prime minister that was just elected. So if you take valuation, which everyone's ignored now for the past two years in the end, all of a sudden this moment takes it from here and puts it at the very top. So newspaper style, hugely important in developing any logic framework.

59:11What's the most important thing that's actionable at this second in that particular instrument? What's my checklist and how do I hierarchicalize it? And that's literally what trading is all about. If I were to ask you to do that on the topic of the principal components of a great life, how would that read? God, family, friends. When I think of friends, I think of fun. God, family, friends and fun. Service. I mean, my significance is not going to be from being a trader. I don't think that's where my significance is going to be. My significance is going to be, first and foremost, going to be my family every now and then.

59:56I actually get joy out of thinking about my funeral because I'm so excited about the songs that I've chosen that'll be sung. I almost wish I was going to be alive for that because it's going to be such a great time. I know my family and friends will enjoy it. I'm thinking of family because if I think about the end of my life and I look back, I'm not going to be thinking about the 87 crash or Bitcoin. I'm going to be thinking about who I loved and who loved me. That's what I'm going to be thinking about and what kind of relationships we had and what kind of times we had. I think the professional aspects are these great tools that allow you to do more meaningful things and the things that count, which is what have you done with your family?

1:00:45What have you done with your friends? How have you served others? What have you done to leave a legacy of happiness and betterment and goodness to the people that you've been privileged enough to come in contact with? And when I say legacy, I don't mean words. I mean deeds. So what have you done that have allowed other people to enjoy and better their station life, their happiness in life. For me, that's the most significant thing by far and away. Do you always believe in God? I have trouble at times. I mean, yes, I do. My faith is tested like I think anybody's faith is tested. I wish I could say, well, 100 % certainly I know I'm going to heaven.

1:01:33I certainly pray every night. The most important aspect is, and the reason why I think it's so important for us all to have God in our lives is you've got to have some set, some code by which you live. I think Christianity, Judaism, a variety of these have these wonderful doctrinaire ways of bringing stability and order and goodness in people's lives. They give you something that you can lead a productive life with and in a way that's very sustainable and allows you to, again, engage with everyone around you with great happiness and joy. What about Africa? What has it taught you? I love Africa so much because I love the outdoors.

1:02:26Can I just say this? It's taken me 70 years to get this point. My new, new thing, I love to find peak spring and peak fall. It doesn't have to be Africa. You can find that day in a neighborhood and in Peak Spring when the colors are vibrant and when the fragrance is just overwhelming. You can find it to the minute in the right place. And I've never felt so alive in my life. And I look for that. I now travel the United States for that moment because I know when Peak Spring is in Georgia. I know when Peak Spring is in Tennessee. And I know when it is in New York City. and I know when it is north of New York City because New York City's normally a week behind this place I go to in upstate.

1:03:12Same thing in fall. There'll be a day where you get the intersection and the Northeast is the best because it has the greatest biodiversity where you see the greatest color and you can see those color changes by day by tree. You find that day with that intersection of color change. I'm telling you, if you find that, you can feel the energy. I've never felt so like you feel God at those moments. It's such a wondrous moment as you go through how life is changing so fast. In case of spring, obviously, it's blooming. In the case of fall, it's transitioning into a more dormant period, but they are so energetic and so exciting.

1:03:52And I highly recommend people try to, in their neighborhood, find that day. Boy, make sure you're walking that afternoon before sunset. Oh my gosh, it's a joy. You've lived so much life in the years that you've been with us. And I never asked the question of general advice. I think it's kind of a lame question, but I'm tempted to close the conversation there with what you would just tell people listening that this audience is passionate. They're curious. They're searching for their thing, or they're trying to get to be the greatest at their thing. They're competitive. What would you tell them based on the sum total of all your amazing life and experience?

1:04:31My mother used to always say, and I think this is what this country really needs right now, you've just got to kill them with kindness. You're going to wake up someday, it's going to be terrible. You're going to be in a bad mood. There's going to be something on TV that's going to make you angry, particularly in these times right now, my gosh, when everyone wants to demonize the opposition, I think we've got to realize it doesn't have to be that way. We can humbly devote ourselves to finding the kindness within ourselves and the goodness within ourselves and transmit that to somebody else during that day.

1:05:14I think that's the secret to happiness. You don't have to worry about yourself. you have to worry about how am I going to brighten someone else's day. And with that attitude, one, you'll always be happy. I'm just going to spend this one day doing this one outward act. And if you repeat it enough, again, everything is about the reps. Pretty soon you take I should and they will become I am's. So if you take that mentality that I want to do this wonderful act of kindness for someone else, pretty soon you become an incredibly kind person. It becomes natural. It becomes instinctive and organic. And it just it's going to brighten your day.

1:06:01And you'll have just such a positive outlook on life. And I think that's what we need to intentionally begin to do every single person. For sure. It'll be a much better world. Paul, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. If you enjoyed this episode, visit Colossus.com. You'll find every episode of this podcast complete with hand edited transcripts. You can also subscribe to Colossus, our quarterly print, digital, and private audio publication featuring in-depth profiles of the founders, investors, and companies that we admire most. Learn more at Colossus.com slash subscribe.

1:06:40Thank you.

1:07:10Try it at ramp.com slash invest. As your business grows, Vanta scales with you, automating compliance and giving you a single source of truth for security and risk. Learn more at vanta.com slash invest. Ridgeline is redefining asset management technology as a true partner, not just a software vendor. They've helped firms 5x in scale, enabling faster growth, smarter operations, and a competitive edge. Visit ridgelineapps.com to see what they can unlock for your firm. Every investment firm is unique and generic AI doesn't understand your process. Rogo does. It's an AI platform built specifically for Wall Street, connected to your data, understanding your process and producing real outputs.

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