Ronnie Fieg - Building Kith - [Invest Like the Best, EP.399]

27:36And I got laughed at. But exactly one year later, people were coming into my store from my school buying Wallabies. And also New Balance is the same thing. We were early carrying New Balances, 576s, and I would wear New Balances with a big N on the bus. And people in Queens would ask me, are those Nikes? Because they thought the N stood Nike. Meanwhile, in the city, the top hip hop artists and drug dealers, because they were coming in calling them orthopedics and buying them because they used to stand on the corner wearing comfortable 1300s. And that was the most expensive runner in the category at the time.

28:11So the reason why I tell you this is because you wanted to know the origin of where I fell in love with product, where my passion came from. And it came from living in such an incredible era where people were buying product for different reasons. It was like the sense of individuality was at its peak at the time where people were buying product because of their own personal taste. And the way that they'd shop the store was very different from the way people shop the store now. They'd come in and they'd actually be interested in product they never saw before. there was a big discovery factor. So they'd shop 10, 15, 20 SKUs off the wall, and then they'd have to narrow down to what they want.

28:57And for the purposes they were buying shit for, whether they were going out at night and they were buying hush puppies or Durangos, or they wanted a pair of boots for during the day or both. But that process and that experience that I had with those amazing individuals, a celebrity or not, I got to get into people's heads to understand why they like certain products and why they were buying certain products. And when you help thousands of people, imagine then learning the inner workings of people's brains of why they like things. I'm picturing 1994 because it's the year that the Rangers won the Stanley Cup.

29:33And I think it's the year Illmatic came out too, if I remember the year correctly. And the Knicks were in the finals and lost to the Rockets. That's right. And I'm thinking of Nas in the store choosing stuff and how that times a thousand created the foundation of what I'll call your product philosophy. And so I would love to hear just what your product philosophy is after all this experience, after doing so many things, if you had to sum up the philosophy behind the product you put out, how would you put it? I don't think that it's one specific philosophy that I would be able to put into words.

30:05There was no way that I wouldn't work on product and make product that I felt was missing in the market. So fast forward and I became an assistant buyer in 1999 or 2000. I think it was 2000. So I went from the stock to sales, assistant manager, manager, and then it became an assistant buyer. So I was splitting my time and I spent one day in the office. And when I did that, I started to work with the brands. I understood product on such a different level because of how long I spent working on the floor. So my understanding of product, when you start from there, when you understand the consumer on that level, the intimacy of that relationship that you have with the consumer, and then you become the buyer slash merchandiser of product you're bringing in, you're now working with the brand.

31:01So that was me working with the brands and looking at product and actually having an opinion, not necessarily an opinion that mattered to the brand yet, but an opinion to myself of what I felt was missing. that I knew people wanted that the brands weren't offering. That is the beginning stages of creation. That's what started my engine. That's what really began this train of thought to want to create product that I felt was missing in the marketplace. And everything that I wanted to make, here's the craziest part. At this point, I have collected a lot of footwear. and I'm now the customer with, in my opinion, where I was at that time in my life, I had this taste level that was the best of all different cultures in New York City because I was helping and understanding all different types of people that were shopping, whether it was the tourist that was coming in from Japan buying Red Wings or it was the dog walker in the village coming in and buying green suede shoes.

32:12Believe it or not, that was a trend. I've noticed that the local consumer loved green suede athletic footwear. It's crazy how you could pick that up after the 20th consumer that you're helping these guys from the village, they really gravitate towards green suede. And then I'm helping Lauren Hill who came in and asked me for a pair of Gore-Tex boots because she thought it was a brand and I had to explain to her what Gore-Tex was. And this is back when Gore-Tex was relatively new. So not a lot of people knew. And then she had that line in the song with some Gore-Tex and sweats, I make treks like I'm homeless.

32:48That was that time I sold her her boots. And then seeing Fat Joe come in and Jay-Z come in every weekend and buy a pair of construction Timberland boots. So my taste was running across all these different people. And then all of a sudden I'm buying for different brands, understanding what each brand is missing in the marketplace. So then I'm starting to think about how I can contribute in that way. And fast forward to 2006. That was the first project I ever worked on was when ASICS, Mike McLaughlin, who was a salesperson at ASICS, really jumpstarted my career, understood that I was a big collector and I helped bring the Asics business from zero to a couple of million dollars at David's because I opened the Asics account for David when we walked a trade show back then.

33:43Wrestling sneakers, believe it or not, were a huge fashion trend. And Anasuka Tiger was a combination of both Anasuka Tiger and the sports style performance driven product that was becoming very fashionable. So I opened that account for David and we built a great business and the sales rep came to me with a catalog. The catalog was basically an archive of styles that he asked me, would you be interested? The group loves you here. My boss loves you. We love the business that we built. Would you be interested in picking one of these to put out as a bring back of a retro style? So I'm flipping through the pages and rewind back to, I would have to say it was 1990.

34:30So I was eight years old. Reebok pumps were out around that time. And I really wanted a pair of Reebok pumps bad. And we were standing outside of, I think it was called Tennis Juncture or something like that. Sneaker store, basically somewhere not far from where I lived. And I literally was crying tears. I was 10 years old, crying tears, like begging my mom to buy me a pair of Reebok pumps. And she came out of the store and she bought me a pair of A6 July 3s that were$70 or something. So I ended up wearing those shoes and I loved them. I wore them until they had holes in the soles. And I went back, I wanted to buy another pair when I was that young and they didn't have them.

35:07So they discontinued them or they didn't have them any longer. So when I flipped through the book, I saw that style and my eyes popped out of my head. And I was like, that's actually a shoe that I loved that I owned when I was a kid. And I showed him pictures of me wearing it in 1990. And he was like, that's perfect. So that's the first shoe. He sent me a CAD of the shoe. I remember I printed it out and I started drawing arrows to different panels of the shoe with a description of what material and color I would want in the different panels of the shoe. This is before I started working on Illustrator.

35:43So basically I faxed in back then three of these different drawings, which I still have at my mom's house somewhere, three different drawings of the shoe for them to basically make. And I got samples, looked great. And then we launched the first batch of shoes called the 252 pack, because back then the minimums to make a shoe was 252 pairs. They opened up a mold, which is very expensive for the investment of letting me work on a shoe, which was incredible. Then you have the responsibility to sell them. So here I am, three shoes, 756 pairs. They come in. And I remember my friend working at Complex at the time, Complex Magazine.

36:34I got them into the magazine a few months earlier. So it was in the print mag. And then I had this party that I put together on Fifth Avenue. And we sold 50 pairs that night. And the next morning, I remember being in the store and we sold two pairs in the morning and I'm like, oh shit, this is not good. Then this editor came in. I didn't know he was an editor and he asked me a bunch of questions about the shoe and he ended up buying a pair. And then the next morning, biking to work because I was living in the city at the time and I get a phone call for my mom. So I pick up the phone on the way to work and I pick it up and I'm like, hey, what's going on?

37:15My mom is like flipping out because my dad reads the Wall Street Journal and on the cover of the pursuit section, there's a picture of the shoe. And then there's an article about limited edition sneakers. The blogs, by the way, were starting to bubble, but this is very early on. So I get to the store and there's a line three blocks long to buy the shoe because of this article that came out. All the stores had lines and we sold out of all the pairs to the pair by the end of the day. Now, during this moment, people lined up. That day, the Adidas office moved in across the street from me on Broadway between Princeton Spring.

37:56And the president of Adidas was there, looked out his window, saw this line, came downstairs and came in and asked me, because I was managing the store. What's going on with this line? And I explained to him what happened. I showed him the paper and I was like so excited. And he's like, did you take your lunch break yet? And I was like, no. And he's like, do you have time to leave? I was like, yeah, I could leave for an hour. So I left with him and he walked me to the new Adidas original store on Worcester Street. And he's like, what if I gave you the ability to work on any shoe in the store? And I was like, what?

38:28I was like, that would be crazy. That would be amazing. So I picked up the superstar and worked on the black tie superstar, which was back then I was dating this amazing woman who was working in Gold Bar, which was an amazing lounge slash club that was opening up. And it was the talk of the city. And I was helping her literally gold leaf the paint on the ceiling of Gold Bar. Like we would stay there and I would help her put this place together. And I got to meet the manager and the staff. And I was like, you know what? But I would love to make, because they were going to wear suits. The staff was going to wear suits.

39:04It was this beautiful place. I was like, I want to make this Adidas Shelto. Instead of the rubber toe, I want to make it all leather with a leather wrap midsole and make a dressy Adidas superstar that you could wear with a suit. And it was called a black tie. And it came with a black Adidas tie. I made a tie with three stripes in the garment district in the city. And it would come with a shoe. So then that shoe released. And that had a story. And then the blog started picking up based on this article in the Wall Street Journal. The blog started reaching out to me and that's basically how it started.

39:38Wow. It's incredible to think about how efficiently you seem to use your own experience as raw material or ingredients in these recipes that you then create. It seems like a major takeaway for creative people out there, whatever they're creating, to tap into their own unique experience more because no one else had that gold leaf experience or whatever. And it seems like if I think about the story of Kith Sense, and I want to come next to the moment of Kith becoming a thing and the thing you're working on and how it started, but it seems like it's that story over and over and over again. It's like you earn your way into more new, unique experience and then take that raw material and apply it back into the product.

40:24Is that like a right way of summarizing it? That's a perfect way of summarizing it. I think for every incredible creator in this world, and we're talking about creators in any category, whether it's architecture or art or music or product, anything, any great creator is basically sharing his or her DNA with the world of their experience that is then translated through product. Some people are born, I think, with this need to spread their experiences and emotions with the world. And some people spread them differently through art, through music. There's a thousand different ways to spread them.

41:11But for me, it's spread through product. And it's spread through product for me because I love product more than anyone I know. When we speak about product, it's like I could show you where I'm sitting right now. I'm sitting in an office that I built in a garage space that I built because I like to be around the cars that I built. It's that emotion that I try to share with the world so people can have the emotion. I want people to buy into product for the right reasons, for the reasons that I did growing up. And I think that part of why Kith has become so special is because we have become a trusted voice through product.

41:49So people trust the product because they know it's coming from an authentic place. And I think it's become relatable across many different categories of fashion and of product. It's so hard for me to explain how this happened. I haven't been able to step back and look at it as this is where it started. This is where it is. It's more so like living it day by day. and just day by day, I've been able to tell more stories and I've been able to make more product that is on a wider spectrum that can affect people through their closets in a much bigger way now than we used to. Because I'm just head to toe, like footwear, socks, pants, underwear, shirt, over shirt, hat, glasses, car, bag is all my brand.

42:45I always dreamed of being able to do that because it would be like one piece or two pieces of my outfit and it would bother me. It would bother me that it wasn't something I created for myself. I love the prompt of what do you love more than anybody else you know and leaning into that aggressively for whatever it is you create. I love that prompt. By the way, I'm a big fan of that because I always tell people if you're not the hardest working person you know, then you're not working hard enough. That's another iteration of that. It's a competition within yourself of being the best version of yourself.

43:23I want to do that in every facet of my life, not just in my work. I want to be the best dad that I know. I want to be the most efficient person I know with time. I want to be the best family member of my extended family that I know. Try to be as caring as I can and always trying to better yourself in every facet. I think that that's been a piece of something that I've learned throughout my career that I've been able to transfer that over to other pieces of my life, which has been great. I love the line, the reward for great work is more work. And it seems like Kith has been an unfolding version of that.

44:00Can you describe the very earliest days of Kith, the brand, what the name came from, how it came together? It's become iconic. It's in all those cities you listed. If you're in New York, you certainly know Kith, but increasingly in the major cities around the world, it's becoming one of the iconic brands with so many different interesting facets. And so I'd love therefore to hear where the name and the concept and the original story came from. It comes from the phrase Kith and Kin, which means friends and family. In the city, during that time when I left David Z and created Kith around 2010, 2011 era, there was this attitude that you'd get where you felt like people were doing you a favor walking into certain stores and certain brands that felt like they were too cool for your business.

44:51And that really rubbed me the wrong way. I remember walking with my dad into a store, and I won't mention the name of the store. And because my dad walked in and my dad is not a well-dressed man. He's just not into that type of shit. He's like a quirky dude. and I walked him in because I was trying to show him the kind of brands that I liked and different types of stores that I thought would be really interesting to him because he's never seen those type of stores. He's never really cared about the retail business in that way, but I wanted him to experience a few things while he was in the city and we were grabbing lunch.

45:24So I walked into a store with him and they shut the music off until he walked out. And I've always wanted to open up my own store and I had different intentions back then and they've obviously changed since but that was the fire that I needed that lit a huge fire under my ass to go and fucking do it and basically that's where the name came from because kith means friends I wanted to create an experience where everyone who shopped with the brand felt like they were at home and felt like they had a lot in common with the people who were helping them. And it became this space for like-minded individuals that cared about product in similar ways than I did.

46:11And that's where the name came from. It came from the phrase kith and kin, which means friends and family. I like the four-letter word. I liked it. I thought it was unique. So I dropped and kin. And ironically, 13 years later, I started a brand under the umbrella last summer called Andkin. And that's a more elevated price point with more elevated fabrics of apparel, just my version of the most luxurious product that you'll find from the brand. It seems like key elements of the entire story are relationship and community. It's in the name. Those are long games. Those are not things that happen overnight or quickly.

46:53Even the Seinfeld story where we started, that was a long story, a five-year story. Say a bit about the role of relationship and community and the way you've built community and the intentionality behind that, because it seems like they're inextricably linked with the vibe and the ethos of Kith. When we built our first shop in Manhattan, so we built two shops simultaneously, one in the new Atrium store at that time, it was new, on Flatbush and Bergen, and then one in the back of Atrium in Soho on Bleecker and Broadway. In the back of Bleecker and Broadway, there was this driveway that when I walked in to the space, I was like, what is this space over here?

47:37And they're like, oh, no one uses it to keep the gate closed. It's a driveway. You can barely fit a car in there because it was a little more narrow than you would want it to be for a driveway. So I was like, this is interesting. I want to turn this into a courtyard. I want to turn this into a space where people can hang out. The concept of the store was to have two rooms and we started off selling multi-brand footwear. That's how the company started. It was two multi-brand footwear rooms. One was more brown shoes and boots and one was more athletic driven. Because you know, for me as footwear is number one in my life, it's always been number one, but I'm not a sneaker guy.

48:14I'm a footwear guy. I can make a shoe in front of you. I know how to make shoes. I spent a month in the Dominican Republic making my Sebago shoes on the line, knowing how to hand sew. And that was a very important time in my life is learning how to make footwear because I loved footwear so much I needed to understand how they were made. So brown shoes were as important to me as athletic footwear. And that's how we opened the store. And there were two different personalities. You'd walk through the rooms and one was more rustic wooden metal. and the other one was stone and frosted glass and lit up in a Tron-esque way.

48:51So I opened up this courtyard and people started hanging out in the store and in this courtyard, not coming in to shop for product, which I loved. Like-minded individuals would just talk about random shit and just chop it up in the back. And a lot of staff became really good friends with one another. The staff became like family. And then these people that would shop the store, they became close to the staff and it became this community of people that was just incredible for the neighborhood. Over time, the people that would hang out in the store and the community that hung out there, they wanted to represent the multi-brand retail store as a brand.

49:32People were asking me to make product with the name of the store on it. Now, collaborative footwear, I was already doing that since 07. So, the footwear would have the name of the store, and that's one thing. But people wanted to wear apparel with the name of the store on it to represent the store. And what I realized was people were having the same type of experiences that I was having in different shops around the area. And they were sick of that. They wanted to feel like they belonged to something where they were welcomed and wanted. And that became the DNA of the kit space. and the purpose and the reason as to why I started making other products.

50:16It's incredible to think about all of this richness that goes into product. And we've talked less about then storytelling. And you said at the beginning that it's two sides of the same coin. And I'm thinking about the production quality and interestingness of some of the videos, especially in the last couple of years, related to some of the incredible, whether it's Armani or something else, collaborations that Kith has done with other iconic brands, maybe talk a little bit about, you've told us so much about how you figured product out over time. How have you figured out storytelling? Because again, you're doing the same thing over and over again that I'm noticing, which is like taking something people already know, introducing something radically new, fusing them, and then delivering that package in a way that is so fun to consume.

51:04And that's the storytelling piece. So maybe give us the same thoughts on how that part of your life came to develop. Okay. So I've never really had to talk about this. So I'm trying to put my thoughts together, but I love film. Probably my first love. When I was younger, I had a very good friend of mine who coming out of a yeshiva school in fourth grade, my parents couldn't afford to send me there anymore. So I went to my local public school in the middle of fourth grade. And the kids were kind of standoffish. And there was one kid who was the coolest kid in the group there, who took me in and started to make me feel welcomed and introduced me to the other kids and made me feel like I belonged.

51:49And this kid, his name was Joey. He became my brother. I would spend more time in his house than in my house. and he at a very young age i would say starting in sixth grade maybe maybe fifth grade actually like 11 12 years old he was the first one that had a laser disc player so his dad was well off and he had bought the full catalog of laser discs that were available because not every movie was Everyone. Not every movie was available on Laserdisc, but he literally had a library of a couple hundred movies on Laserdisc. And on the weekends, we would spend the entire weekend in his room watching movies and he'd make me watch crazy movies.

52:41He was making me watch Deer Hunter and Amadeus. The range was insane. We fell in love with film back then. And it became our obsession as kids. And throughout the years, I was always in the theater. Up until recently, up until COVID, I would say, I basically put my wife on too. She didn't see any other movies. She probably saw like maybe 2 % of the movies I've seen. So then it became putting her on in the same way. And making her watch all these movies that I got to relive. And then going to the theater twice a week and watching films. It was pretty incredible. So my passion for film was very important to me.

53:24And it became a part of my DNA in how I would love to see the brand be able to communicate through the medium of film. I would say the real start for this was the New York love story. And there were two chapters of the New York love story. And that was my first attempt at showcasing product through the setting of New York City, but also through this short film that would be like Billy Crystal feel. When I think about when Harry met Sally, like through that kind of vibe, that was the first concept I had for showcasing a fall collection in New York City is this love story between these two people.

54:09And then we continued that and had this part two, which I didn't love as much, but that was my attempt and it was good, not great. As time progressed, one of my employees who started off as an intern, his name is Austin, became my right hand. And also through my relationship with him, he fell in love with film as well. And this happened recently, I would say in the last few years and started to research how we would take this to the next level, because he's basically the head of content for me. And we started to take it a lot more seriously because I told him that I wanted this to be a major part of what we do, these films.

54:54So he did his part by doing some research and figuring out the talent that we needed to work with to bring these things to life, these mini films to life. And we did that. And it started to become a huge part of our DNA in how we storytell. And it really checks off a lot of these boxes for me and Austin with how we feel people should experience the product or seeing the product through the most passionate way for us to feel accomplished. I think that that's what makes it feel organic, is people understanding that when I feel accomplished, it's so much better of a place to be than for it to feel forceful in the way that I tell a story or in the way that I present product.

55:47So now with understanding that we could do that on a very high level, because the videos are insane now. They're incredible. And I'm so proud of them. It was a struggle to get it easy. But now that we know we could do that, when we create product in its inception of creating product, we are already understanding that we can tell a story on the highest level. so it expands the spectrum of the product I can work on and makes me feel a lot more comfortable working on some of the products that I do, especially Armani, for example. What have you learned that might be applicable to others? Because I think it's amazing how many different domains these set of ideas could be powerful.

56:33What have you learned about a great collaboration with Armani? It's another brand that people could buy in some weird way. It might be thought of as a competitor. I know I'm sure you don't think about it that way, obviously, but it's in the same category. What have you learned about just running these collaborations and thinking all the way back to that first lunch break you had effectively? Like what are the ingredients of a great episodic collaboration or partnership? Like the ones you've done, you've done more of them than just about anybody probably. So I'm going to bring you back to the first BMW project that we worked on.

57:10The E30 M3 is probably the most culturally relevant car in my market ever. It's so, so, so iconic. And in trying to explain what the car meant to BMW, BMW produced the M3 without the intention of it becoming commercialized. It was a race car. I didn't know of that? It was a race car. They had a three series that was on the road, but then they created this M version of it to be a race car. And the car won multiple awards and the driver, Johnny Chakoto won multiple races. When I told the story about the E30 M3, which was a one-off car that BMW in Germany rebuilt for me alongside the M4, which I introduced to the world.

57:56M4 was introduced through us. When we told the story, it was so important for us to tell a story about this Cinnabar Red M3, E30 M3. That color was so iconic. And what I wanted to do was to showcase the M4 is basically the newest version of the old M3. So I wanted to bridge the story for people to understand the DNA of where it came from. So we got Johnny Chikoto and his son to drive the E30 M3. And that was Johnny Chocotto and his son to drive the M4. His son is also a race car driver. So I put both cars on the track to race each other in these two cars. And it was basically to showcase the E30 M3 and the M4 and to explain, show people the visual and bridging the two together.

58:54Being able to do that on a high level. So you asked me a question about collaboration and how I work on some of these bigger moments with these bigger brands. When I have these type of ideas for a brand like BMW, it's refreshing for them, for someone to want to come in and tell that story through their point of view. And I think that me describing that to you right now is how brands feel across the board on the projects that I work on. Because my love for the product that I work on, they can't doubt the passion that I have for it once we sit down and we figure out what the storytelling will be.

59:35It always comes from wanting to celebrate the brand I work with, not from wanting to put my version of it above their history and heritage on why that product is important to the world. Incredible. Yeah. So with every collaboration, I feel the responsibility to need to educate people on the why. Here's what happened through time is the why becomes a lot more of a burden because of how we've been able to storytell. So these bigger storytelling moments now have set the bar and now have to compete against what I have done either the last project or the last year working with the same brand. So it's tough.

1:00:19I'm going to give you one example. The evolution of something like what I've done in chapter one with BMW to what we did chapter two. When we go and we start to work on chapter two, we sit down in a room and we're like, why are we doing this? Why is there a chapter two? Is there a story that is worth telling through our lens? Some stories shouldn't be told through our lens. But there are stories and moments that people need to know about and wouldn't happen unless we apply it through our filter, through our lens. For example, chapter two was the 50-year anniversary. And as I was looking, I was trying to see the history of what BMW has done and moments that would definitely resonate with the consumer today.

1:01:09and something that people can be curious about. And chapter two was the 50-year anniversary of the 1602, which was presented as a concept car, as the pace car on a track during the Olympics in Munich. And the car was presented as the first electric car that ran 27 miles, which was the length of a marathon, as the pace car in the Olympics on the track. So it was 50 years since that story. And I thought that that was a forgotten story. And as BMW is releasing new electric cars today, I was like, let people know where it came from. Let people know how long ago BMW was thinking about electric cars and how long BMW has been working on this.

1:02:07So now the 1602 released as a combustion engine, same body, just not as an electric car back then. It was just a concept car for that one moment. So we took a 1602. BMW rebuilt it for me with specs of two i3 batteries and converted a 1602, a vintage car, and rebuilt it from scratch to make it an electric car. And then we told the story of that car, which is literally under me right now as I'm sitting above it in this mezzanine. And next to it downstairs is also the i4M50 to show the past and present. That is basically the purpose of what I do, is to educate the consumer, but to build emotion through the DNA of the company, but also tell their story of their purpose of why.

1:02:57The why is so important, and we've become professionals at the why. It seems like you're also this master collector of these raw ingredients and travel is something that we haven't talked about that I'm also super passionate about. And something that stood out thinking ahead was Japan specifically and the first time that you ever went there and how it changed you and what happened. Because another lesson I'd love people to take away is collect these raw ingredients, go have unique experiences of the world, see what resonates and give them back. And it seems like you've done that with travel quite a bit.

1:03:35You can zoom in anywhere, but Japan's the one that piqued my interest. But you pick. Yeah, Japan changed my life completely. But also my relationship with Junya, who's the director of my business in Japan, that relationship changed the course of my life completely. The way I think about product. If you haven't been to Tokyo, it's the first place you need to go if you care about product style, culture. just about anything. I got there and I was like, wow, I can't believe I lived my whole life up until this point without knowing that this exists because it's so different. It's not like I didn't know Japan existed.

1:04:14It's that I didn't know that culture existed. It's a culture that cared about product on the same level that I did. And I got to meet with a lot of people who viewed the process the same way I did and cared about the process the same way I did and care about the details the same way I do. And everything is so purposeful. There's nothing that happens there without a great reason for it to happen. So it changed my life completely. And what has happened over time and actually is happening currently, like right now, in the last couple of years of my life, is my European travel. Traveling to Italy and across Europe, whether it's to Greece, Italy, London, Germany.

1:05:00I go to Germany a lot for BMW and Adidas, Amsterdam. The Italian portion of the trips that I've taken has influenced me now, I would say 50-50 with Japan. My aesthetic and my style, which will never change, but will continuously evolve, it now is 50-50, this tailored suiting out of Italy and the world that comes with that, not only suiting, has taken up, I would say, 50 % of what I want in my wardrobe. And for Rosh Hashanah last night, I wore a suit to my sister's house and they're like, wow, we've been waiting for this version of you.

1:05:43And I just came back from London and Milan where I celebrated the release of the Armani collection. and working with Giorgio and the team and their team has inspired me to want to dress that way. And I think that Japan had the same exact influence on me and still does. And I think now it's split 50-50 between Japanese influence and Italian influence. You said in Japan, it's that nothing happens without a lot of care and thought and intentionality. And maybe that's like the unique thing. What would be the corollary thing for Italy? Quality, craftsmanship? Craftsmanship and quality, yeah. Just the best, you have the greatest suit makers in the world, all in one city.

1:06:27Especially with Giorgio, I got to work with the best suit maker in the world. That's the greatest suit maker in the history of mankind. I'm working with the greatest suit maker of all time. That's like, you put on a Giorgio suit and there's nowhere to go from there. There's absolutely nowhere to go from there. It's not even possible. to go up from there. So getting to work with the best, that's also for me, what my goals are in life is to work with the best across categories. So I really think BMW makes the greatest car in the world. And I got to work with them side by side, and there'll be a third chapter of that happening this year.

1:07:05And I got to work across different categories and across some of the greatest icons for the brand. That's been an incredible experience. And then we work with the latest brand, a brand like Armani. Similarly, it's the greatest fabrics and the greatest construction in the world. And we've worked with Montclair, greatest outerwear brand probably in the world, I would say. We've worked with Nike with the greatest basketball player of all time, got to design the LeBron 15 with that team, with the Nike team. Our version of that, which was incredible that he wore in the All-Star game and won MVP with an iconic picture of him dunking the ball in our shoe.

1:07:46It's a great moment for us. What a feeling. I got to work with the greatest tennis player in the world, Roger Federer, in helping him put out his first shoe, the Roger One with On. Working on a few things right now, which is also on that level of the greatest in the world. To work on the Olympics at Team USA and what we were able to do with the Olympics Team USA Basketball have that capsule. We shot Kevin Durant. And it's been honestly an unbelievable journey to think about the brand being associated with some of the greatest brands in the world and us striving to be the greatest brand for what we do specifically.

1:08:26So there is the collaborative arm of what we do, which will always be a huge part of the DNA because that's where it started for me. and then there's us as a standalone brand that has been able to evolve tremendously throughout the years. One of the things that we haven't talked about in an hour of talking is the business itself. And one of the things that I've learned actually from Sean Feeney, our mutual friend, is when you approach an old business, restaurants in his case, apparel and many other things in your case that have been around a long time, if you're creative about how the business unfolds, it actually unlocks more creativity.

1:08:59So the way he structured his leases, for example, with the landlords, created more flexibility for the artist, Missy in his case, to like do exactly her creative genius, however she wanted. What have you learned about as the business has evolved, you're selling these things, it's a very big business, about structuring the business and operating in the business in a way that allows you to do more and more of this thing that you love? Doing more and more of the things that I love has allowed me to do more and more of the things that I love. That's the best way I could put it because the business portion of what we do is done so that it can continue to be a universe for me that I can continue to feed with products that I love and projects that I love.

1:09:48Sustaining the business has been tough, let alone growing it, but we have an incredible team. I think that that's the most important part of the growth and the company at the moment. not even at the moment, at any moment, has been the help and the execution of what I consider to be the greatest team in the game. And I think that when you speak about the business, it takes up so much less of my brainpower, not in the sense of how we execute, because I'm also very involved in the merchandising and the buying and the planning and where we allocate dollars and the leases and how we grow, of course.

1:10:30But any free time that I have, I'm not thinking about that. That's when I'm forced to think about that. And I sit down and we have decisions to make. That's when critical thinking is applied in thinking about how we grow and what we think about the business. But my goal is to be in a position where I can continuously think creatively as to how we evolve the brand and become the best version of ourselves. It's never been thinking about how we compete. It's never been about what other brands do. It's never been about that, which is why we've been able to be so successful in creating something so unique.

1:11:11Because the most unique part about our business, I don't like using that word, about our brand, I would say, because it's never done for business purposes. Nothing is done for business purposes in the sense of what we create. We don't create for the sake of business. we create for the sake of what people will love. And the most unique part about that is the ability to work with cereal companies on$8 cereal box or$7.5 ice cream and then sell a car for 130 grand and sell 120 of them in a matter of 11 minutes. The ability to think about both and give the same consideration to both, I think makes us a unicorn.

1:11:58because when I think about Kith Treats and its impact on the brand, it's as big of an impact as Giorgio Armani has on the brand. And thinking about both ends of the spectrum, the 35 to 55-year-old man that will buy a Giorgio Armani suit from us for$6 ,000, and then thinking about the younger consumer who's coming in and buying a t-shirt from treats and an ice cream when they come into the store, those people are just as important to me. Both of them are just as important. So I think the business side is, I wouldn't even call it business. I would just say it's the intent on making sure that both ends of the spectrum are catered to with the same intent of making sure that they feel welcomed, that they feel special, and that they feel like there's a lot of creativity and purpose behind all of the product that we create.

1:13:07In the middle of that is everything else. That's where sport and music and everything else fits. Because when you think about what I'm doing with the Knicks and that portion of it, and that's why maybe it's not even on a spectrum. Maybe it's dimensional. Maybe it's just different categories and buckets of what we do because the magic of the brand is the ability to have a creative process and intent across all the categories. It's really incredible and it makes me wonder how difficult it has been to keep your intention so pure. Has there ever been a point in history where you've had a devil on your shoulder?

1:13:47I feel like everyone has angels and devils. What devil, if any, have you had to fight to keep the thrust of this story? The treats to the Armani is just so resonant with me and the equal amount of care. What devil has there been in the history, if any? Even if there was, which I don't think there was a moment, it was part of the learning curve. I have never regretted any decision that I've ever made since I started the company, not even one. And I think that also speaks to when people wonder how it's possible to manage and be the CEO and creative director of a company this big. It's because the decisions that need to be made, the split second decisions, and there's so many decisions to make every day.

1:14:34It's like when you have a really great free throw shooter, it becomes second nature. It's almost like thoughtless when you step up to a free throw line and you shoot those because it's routine. Through time, making decisions becomes a sport. That's the way I look at it. And my life revolves around that sport. So it's like getting enough sleep, eating healthy, working out, not going out. I don't have any vices, which is crazy. I don't go out late. I don't drink. I don't smoke. Some people may consider that a really boring life. But if I need to be a great decision maker and make decisions that I won't regret, I need to be on my A-game.

1:15:16And I've learned and have become very experienced in guiding this ship. If you want to be a great business person and a great creative, it comes with a lot of sacrifice. So, yeah, I'm just trying to think of people that listen to this pod. There are going to be some industry people that listen to it that can relate. And then there'll be people that want to understand how. And just like we try to showcase the process of anything we do, it's important for people that are passionate, that want to get into this world, to understand that it doesn't happen easily. You need to go through decades of experience to be able to then make all the right decisions that can help you evolve in anything.

1:16:01It's such an important part of it. I also don't think that I would be thinking in this way a few years ago. I've had some moments where I've had to really reflect because as I think about the next three to five to 10 years, you also need to think about whether or not you're capable. What's one of those moments? Every day I have that moment. I think it's every day. When I think about the future, and I always think about the future. When I look at my daughter, I think about the future. I'm always concerned about the future. I actually am never able to fully enjoy the moment because I'm always thinking in another moment.

1:16:39It's kind of fucked up. It's a double-edged sword. It is. But every day I am thinking about, am I going to be able to be what I am today three to five years from now and have the same impact? Because I can't continuously do what I'm doing today. it's going to have to get bigger and bigger in the sense of evolving. The storytelling needs to get better. The product needs to get better. Otherwise, I don't want to do it. I don't know what it's like to remain the same or want a steady business. It's not what I want. It's not what I signed for. So I'm just trying to think of how much farther I can take it.

1:17:17So I'm constantly thinking about that, but that's what's led to this. I'd love to close with three areas of passion because this conversation has been about passion holistically. Those are a brand you recognized, M.A. Leandor, an iconic old brand that you are in charge of, the Knicks as the creative director, and architecture, which you mentioned earlier and is something that I hadn't seen. I mean, I know the stores themselves are like an ode to incredible spaces, but it seems like a passion of yours that I'd love to learn more about. How do you recognize an up and coming brand that has so much potential like Emelian D 'Or?

1:17:53What do you see in it? How do you process it? You're not the person, you're not the creative director of it. Someone else is that you then are inspired by or admire and then get to work with. So what is it there that you saw or what do you see in other people or brands that inspire you? Well, first of all, Emelian D 'Or is similar to my baby and the amount of work that I put into what I do. Teddy will have his own stories, some similar to mine, some of his own that make that brand what it is. And I have a lot of respect for Teddy. Maybe it's something in the water in Queens that breeds these creatives, but he's done an incredible job.

1:18:37It's a brand that has definitely impacted the culture in a very big way in the way that people view product. The visuals have been top-notch. He's a visionary. He has great vision and great aesthetic. And he's one of my closest friends and I love him. How do you approach something like the Knicks? You and I grew up in the exact same era of the Knicks. The nostalgia around them for me is extreme. I have a son now who's now involved as a Knicks fan and it's one of life's greatest and simplest pleasures. The NBA in general and the Knicks specifically for me and for my family. How do you begin? How do you approach something like that with so much history where it's not a one-off thing?

1:19:23It is a key relationship for the Knicks, for you. I'm sure you must be a kid in a candy shop. Just say a little bit about the experience so far. That would be a whole other pod. Fair enough. But for me to describe how I feel about the Knicks and how much I love the team and what it means to the city. But basically, I feel like the Knicks are the most important team in New York, personally, the most important sports team in New York. When the Knicks are good, there's nothing like it. New York City is a different place, unlike the rest of any team in any city, in my opinion. And it's not because I'm a Knicks fan, it's because I've witnessed it and I've lived it and I want to be a part of it in any way I can.

1:20:10And I think for some of these creative moments that I've had with the Knicks in the ability to design their city edition uniforms and the ability also to release these collections within the garden, Kith Knight at the garden has become a big thing. The collections have gotten bigger and bigger. And finally, people are able to wear the team and the brand in a very elevated way. because we apply some of our best garments to the collection and treat it really like a brand and not like a team. And I think that that's been a difference in that vision for the Knicks because I do think the Knicks are a team and then the Knicks are a brand.

1:20:49And when you look at the brand, I think it resembles the city and the heart of the city more than many other brands do. Kith as a New York brand and the Knicks really go hand in hand and people love to see when those two come together. It's been a lot of fun. It's been very successful. And the relationships that I've gotten to build with the players and the staff has been great. And unlike a lot of fans who think about it one dimensionally, I think of the Knicks as the conglomerate. It's more than just a team to me. I think that Jim Dolan has done a very good job putting people in place to bring that culture back to the city and put people in place to have put together an incredible team and also an incredible atmosphere in MSG and how people feel when they come and they experience the games.

1:21:43Because I've gone to games across the country. There really is nothing like being in MSG. There's nothing like it. It really is a unicorn type of experience. It's an iconic Jalen Brunson game or something right now is a singular sports feeling. That's so cool that you get to be such a part of it. So cool. One thing I didn't ask about that I should before we close is this notion of a quality bar in everything that you produce in the brand. You've got a big team, obviously, like you have a standard and we've talked lots about where that standard came from. How do you uphold a standard like that in a big team?

1:22:20What is the key to setting and maintaining a suitably high and rising quality bar, which sounds like a good idea and simple enough, but I'm sure is really hard to do over and over again. Here's the biggest part of that. It's people that need to check their ego at the door and understand that if the work is not up to par, they need to go back to the drawing board until it is. And I think that with the team that I surround myself with and that I have, none of us have the egos and all of us understand that the brand is bigger than all of us when it comes to the work that we do. So right now, even though the brand and myself are synonymous, the decisions that I make are on behalf of the brand, not on behalf of myself.

1:23:04But I've been spending so much time on the brand that that now comes second nature. I'm able to make those decisions easily because now what's right for the brand is right for myself. That's been the biggest key is also the dynamic between the teammates on the staff. They all have to be like-minded in what we're trying to do in the goal. And everybody needs to understand what it is that we're trying to do. We're trying to be the best at what we do. Also, consistency is super key. having the right people in the right roles the consistency i think is what makes the biggest difference because when you look at the brand the evolution has been easy to see and easy to transition for the consumer when they see that the vision has been consistent so it's like walking people through a journey throughout the years they've seen the growth through consistent eyes, which I think has been super critical to the brand.

1:24:07Is there any closing prompt or challenge that you would give to an audience that is full of incredibly ambitious and curious people often already leading businesses or investing in businesses, but also full of people that maybe haven't figured out their thing yet? Is there any prompt that you would give them or closing thought for that kind of person? I've only done one kind of job my whole life. I've always been in this category of business and this world of product and retail. So it's really hard for me to apply that to anything but this category of business. But I will say that what has helped me has been finding my passion very early on in my life.

1:24:50And I think that gave me a leg up on starting really early and then also starting from the bottom of a company to then learn all of the different positions and inner workings on how a company works and what makes the engine run from all facets. Because before I became a creative, I really got to understand the business well. And I got to understand what people want and why they want it. So like I mentioned before, but I think for people that are trying to figure out their way, it's important not to skip the alphabet. You can't get from A to Z without the alphabet. And my biggest piece of advice would be to start at the bottom and work your way up.

1:25:32When I do these interviews, I ask everyone the same traditional closing question. What is the kindest thing that anyone's ever done for you? Honestly, I'd have to say it's my wife understanding and loving me for the kind of person that I am in this world that I live in because I spend so much time on what I do. and I'm so invested in what I do that understanding how my time is split up and how I prioritize my time to want to be successful in the brand and the business, but also wanting to be the best husband and father. I think my wife has always been kind to me and understanding me in that way.

1:26:13Beautiful place to close, Ronnie. This was fantastic. So interesting. So different. Thank you so much for your time. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Thanks for having me. If you enjoyed this episode, check out joincolossus.com. There you'll find every episode of this podcast complete with transcripts, show notes, and resources to keep learning. You can also sign up for our newsletter, Colossus Weekly, where we condense episodes to the big ideas, quotations, and more, as well as share the best content we find on the internet every week.

1:26:56Thank you.