Deliver Us from MAGA

26:04And, for example, one of the significant things they ruled recently was that you could take someone's racial, ethnic background and factor that into whether or not you can detain that person under the Fourth Amendment. You can decide that just because that person's Hispanic, you've got a right to seize him temporarily and ask him for his identification. And there's decades of case law that talks about how that's unconstitutional. And just within one or two sentences on the shadow docket, they've undone years, decades of precedent to talk about that. So that's the danger of it. People don't realize that that's what's going on in the legal system.

26:43Well, if you were to have to write an opinion, you would have to have a variety of different footnotes that would explain the case law that you're describing, that the precedent would inform the decision that they're making. But because they're making it the fuck up, basically, they rely on these shadow dockets. And it's really a major problem, I would think, for the legal system going forward when hopefully we get out of this era of fascism. but is this whole era going to basically be a black hole for precedent? I mean, maybe that's a good thing given the nature of the decisions, but it's definitely not a good thing for the legal profession and for judges in this country.

27:23It's not, and it diminishes. You know, most people have a respect for the rule of law, whether you agree or disagree. Like, you know certain things about it. That's what it does here. It diminishes. Like, we have a son who's a first-year law student, and we're so proud he's going to go be a lawyer, But in the back of my mind, I'm thinking everything that Trump and this administration and the Supreme Court and others are doing is diminishing the value of all of those things. And in some ways, it also enhances the need to have good litigators. But at the same time, how can everybody be complicit in this?

27:55How can you have nine justices, six of which have decided that they're going to bankrupt their souls and vote in favor of Donald Trump? And I also want to point out to a lot of listeners that have groups of friends and relatives that say the following. I am fiscally conservative, but socially liberal. And where we live, that statement provides a lot of people cover to go vote Republican because they care about their own personal tax spend. And then they can say, but I'm socially liberal so that they can go to their gay hairdresser and feel like they're multicultural and that they're not just crusty old white fuckers.

28:39Right. So here's the problem with the erosion of the court system for the fiscal conservatives. Fiscal conservative is all about business. Laissez faire business. Let it rip. Let's go. Right. When you don't have a court system to take a contract in, then the economy starts eroding and it starts eroding and it starts eroding. And you can look no further than Russia to see what has happened here. You have inflation out the wazoo. You have all of these oligarchs that went and bent the knee to Vladimir Putin. And then Vladimir Putin decides, hmm, I kind of want that company. And then this billionaire that bent the knee to Vladimir Putin is knocked out of a window.

29:19So and here's the thing, you guys, it is not hyperbolic at all at this point to say that. Look at the phones, Trump's kids, dumb and dumber, Eric and Don Jr., of course, dumb and dumber, like we're going to have Trump phones. Look at this. We have Trump phones, Trump phones. You see Tim Cook go bend the knee, give him the trophy presentation, humiliating, especially considering the fact that Tim Cook is gay. But that's another podcast entirely when we dive into the psychology behind internalized homophobia. But at some point, if he keeps getting all of this unchecked power, Kanks is going to be like, you know what?

29:58I really like Apple. Why don't we just take that and call it Trump? Why don't we just rebrand that whole thing? That's what he does. It's not like he comes up with any new ideas. I mean, he's building a ballroom, for God's sakes, and he can't even dance. He does that double jerk off old man dance thing all the time. And the centerpiece of this administration, the thing that his own press secretary says that his top priority is, is building a$300 million ballroom. And he can't even dance. No, he can't even dance. But it's modeled a little bit off the Russian ballroom. I don't know if you've seen some of those images, because, like, you know, Vladimir Putin is a good example of what he's trying to emulate.

30:41where it's casino capitalism. He is trying not to change our economic system in any egalitarian way. He's trying to use the power of the presidency to enrich himself in very direct ways. But also the merging of corporations and the state is the definition of fascism. Like you see right now this headline that was just so horrifying to me that there's this injection of private money into the United States military, and they're seeking out further private equity investments. We already have enough financial incentives to go to war. There's this thing called the military-industrial complex, but the United States military should be inculcated from that kind of thing.

31:26I mean, statutorily, I would imagine it is, but given what we're talking about with the legal system, it's very difficult to see how some of these challenges all make their way through. It's really horrifying. And then you just step back and you ask the question, how did so many people take our democracy for granted? And how did democracy... Why was democracy not enough for people not to bring Donald Trump back into office after January 6th? His approval rating leaving office was horrific. It's only beaten now by his minus 18 net approval rating that we're seeing right now. It's the lowest it's been, I think, when he was in office.

32:04It might have been lower after January 6th when he left office. But putting that aside for just a second, the problem is that people weren't sold on the idea of democracy because, one, I don't think the Democratic Party is practicing it internally. They're not listening enough to voices like yourself who are talking about AIPAC money. I mean, only 8 % of Democrats in the poll in August per Gallup support Israel's military action in Gaza. An overwhelming majority, I think something like 70 percent, say that Israel is committing genocide. And yet a great majority of the Democratic Party is still supportive of Israel.

32:43Is that democracy between your voters and your core constituency and the party? Or is that corruption? And then you even have the Joe Biden issue. A majority of Democratic voters didn't think he should run again. They took him at his word on that front. And he didn't listen. The party mechanism kept going and going. And we could have had a debate where that would have been a performance of democracy, where people could have heard what do Democrats stand for? Or we could have hashed out those issues in the primary and people could have voted for somebody based on their viewpoint that would have been more representative of it and of them.

33:16And it would have given that candidate more legitimacy than unfortunately, you know, Harris wasn't able to pull through in that way, even though I do think in part, not in part, she was handed a horrible hand by Joe Biden. But how do you sell people on the idea of small d democracy if you don't practice it yourself? And then it gets to the overarching question of what is people's experience with democracy? And when you don't have democracy in your workplace, or you don't feel like you have the freedom to spend money or to build a life or to buy a home or work towards goals, because you're in a cycle of debt or your wage isn't increasing or the prices of everything keep going up and up, there has to be some sort of egalitarian democracy for the economy as well, where people feel like they can move up or that they can have a chance.

34:06And so I do think that the Democrats lost on just selling the political democracy of showing up on election day, where they're not showing the requisite democratic responsiveness that would be an opposition party, an effective opposition party to a fascist like Trump. They're getting there, hopefully but not this leadership it's got to be something different i mean emmy you said something that resonated with me but when we're talking about one six then we talk about how did we end up here yeah i mean in a nutshell i would say the democrats yeah yeah that's i hate to be that blunt about it but from where we live and where we sit in a red state in oklahoma city having an understanding of that environment and the rural upbringing that i had uh the democrats played it horribly bad.

34:53And I don't mean to keep returning to the Democrats, but, you know, the point is, is like what you're saying, how can we make change? Right. And we are not in the constituency of the Republican Party. They don't care what I have to say about their failings. Like, and the Republicans have been the villains my entire life. It's just how are you an effective opposition party? How can you sell people on your vision? And we can talk to we're blue in the face about how the facts are on our side. We get it. But what you've been so good on, Jennifer, and it's just like pushing this forward. We've got to get the money out.

35:24We've got to because it hamstrings the opposition. They're not able to say what they should say because they're corrupted. We've got to get the money out. Democrats have got to quit doing focus groups and being disciplined about their answers. You know, when after I kind of got into it with Cory Booker, I told Josh about it. And Josh's response was, this is why they suck. Do you think Trump would blink? Do you think he'd hesitate for two seconds if you asked him a yes or no question? He'd fucking answer it. And then if one of his aides corrected him in the next day, then he just changed his mind again.

35:59But this whole word salad, I'm so disciplined, I'm not giving people a straight answer. It gives this elitism that I think I know better. I'm up here and all of the electorate is down here. And, you know, Josh was raised in Hugo, Oklahoma, which is a town of 5 ,000 people. And I guarantee you Trump won that county by 50 percentage points or something. And the thing with people in rural areas, and I found this statistic so fascinating. So when you look at Oklahoma, so red, not one county has gone blue like the last five election cycles. They're real proud of that. There are 77 counties. They've all gone Republican.

36:39Yeah, all gone Republican. And if you ask people individually, do you want marijuana to be legal? They did that like five or seven years ago and the electorate voted to legalize marijuana. If you ask them, are you for choice up to a point, the majority of Oklahomans say yes. If you say, are you for the rich paying their fair share in taxes? They say yes. If you ask everybody on an individual thing, even in deep red religious Bible thumping Oklahoma, progressive single line item issues win. But the Republicans have done an incredible job propagandizing in red states via churches. Yes. And I remember growing up and there are mega churches fucking everywhere.

37:26And I was on top of all of the prayer lists and all of those mega churches. But that's another podcast as well. Oh, you told me about that story. It was a great story about, yeah, your background in that area and how Trump is like a evangelical preacher. But the marquees on this church, I remember seeing this is, you know, a long time ago. It'd be like, vote George Bush today. Yeah. And this is at the church. And if you think about this portion of the electorate and how much this portion of the electorate, I'm not talking about Christian light people. Don't freak out. I'm not talking about Catholics.

37:58I'm talking about white evangelicals. They are the people who have fucked us so hard because they started this shit decades ago, long before kinks ascended. And they are the people who leave us vulnerable. Where does Vladimir Putin enter the United States? Through the prayer breakfast. Where does the NRA go? Through the prayer breakfast. Project 2025. All this shit is rooted in white evangelicalism. And the Democratic Party has not answered the Republican Party crazy Christian component of this because they think, oh, separation of church and state, we're not going to talk about it. You fucked up because these crazy Christians that have their roots in the KKK have made this a political issue and you have to answer it.

38:48And that's why somebody like James Tallarico in Texas is very important. Now, for me, if it's a Muslim, if it's a Jewish person, if it's a Christian politician, they start talking about their faith. I'm an atheist. It's nauseating to me. However, this is a very religious first world country. And I think it's going to take some politicians like Andy Bershear and James Tallarico to go run as progressive Christians in these red states and take the same message the Zoran has. Exact same. You've got to focus on class, though. They can't just do. Yeah. Tallarico has a very great line, he says. And he won't throw the trans population under the bus.

39:28He said, everybody's worried about less than one percent of the population. They're worried about the wrong one percent. Great line. We need to focus on the other one percent. And then he talks about his faith and Jesus, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But this to me is such an effective way for Democrats to move forward. And it pissed me off to no end when Ezra Klein suggested that the Democrats should run pro-life candidates in red states. They've done it and they all lose. Pro-life Democrats fucking get their ass beat because rural people aren't as dumb as you think. They just cannot stand people that are inauthentic.

40:10we all know kinks is not authentic but he reads to people as being authentic because he came out in 2016 and i remember josh and i kind of liked it at first he's like lying ted oh it was funny mark i was like finally somebody's fucking calling out these sleazebags yeah and he was also saying things like marjorie taylor green is doing this right now where there are existing fractures in the maga base where she's saying stuff that other republicans aren't saying like criticizing israel or even criticizing some of Trump's tariff policies because she's trying to set herself up for 2028. That's my that's my.

40:45She sees a post-MAGA world. Exactly. The strong man is frail. And that's when autocracies and dictators crumble because this dementia world tour in Asia that we have all seen is very alarming. I mean, he had the prime minister of Japan babysitting him and still got lost. Yeah. I mean, it feels like it happens at the end of every month long cycle. And there's I mean, this is just hypothesizing. but that hand thing, there's some Alzheimer's drugs. Injections and Adderall, yeah. You know, you got to do it, refresh every single month. But, I mean, I think what you're hitting on is actually, you know, really important.

41:19So the Ezra Klein thing, I mean, that pissed me off to no end, too, because how many different people are we going to throw under the bus to avoid talking about class? Like, part of the elitism you're talking about is, like, what Cory Booker, he couldn't get away with on your show, he gets away with in every room that has donors in it. Because he will talk about his identity. He will talk about being a black man. He'll talk about where he lives in. I'm from New Jersey in New Jersey. And, you know, I think that kind of representation is important, but it can't be the only thing. But he'll rely on that because wealthy white people that want to think of themselves as anti-racist and donate to the Democrats, they want to hear that when they're in a room and it flatters them and then they get money.

42:01But for regular people, they're like, what the hell are you talking about? You're being asked a direct question. Can you answer it? It's this inauthenticity. And then with Ezra, the impetus to be like, what can we throw under the bus? What can we abandon in order to win these people? Right. Yeah. Women. Right. People who can get pregnant. Like who? It was trans people. Now it's victims of incest. States. Fuck you. Yeah, exactly. Right. Except that you don't need to do that. We have seen that if you just lean into people want their material conditions to be met And you can have a candidate like Dan Osborne in Nebraska who doesn't have all of my social beliefs, but is focused, he's supported by unions and he's running as an independent because a Democrat, a D next to your name is a little bit of an issue in that state.

42:52But you can have other candidates that run similarly with like an economic populist platform in other states that are more representative, say, of my full politics. You don't have to abandon people. You can avoid certain topics, but just emphasizing you're going to change people's material conditions is really important. The problem is, is that there's a consultant class that you mentioned earlier that gets paid millions and millions of dollars a year just to avoid that question. There is a whole rotten infrastructure in the Democratic Party that needs to be done away with because they are avoiding the simple answers in favor of donor money.

43:25And I go back to 2016 when Chuck Schumer said this openly. He said, for every, and I'm paraphrasing, but for every person we lose in rural America, or maybe it wasn't rural America, it was for every X person we lose, we will gain a suburban Republican voter. I'm paraphrasing a lot. I remember that. It was about basically reorienting the party more towards disaffected suburban Republicans. How has that worked out? How has that worked out? It is about micro-targeting a small sliver of the population with ads, which makes consultants very rich. They get fees on TV ads. You know what doesn't get fees?

44:06Canvassing like Zoran did, turning out people and volunteers. That doesn't pay consultants their fees. That's just good politics. But the Democratic Party has a whole infrastructure in place to avoid doing that kind of thing. And Obama was better at that. And look at what happened in 2008. So it's not just about, you know, the politics of it, which I'm trying to focus on this as somebody who's a democratic socialist. Right. But it's also about the infrastructure that is rotten as well. Well, and let me make two quick points for me from my perspective. Number one, people do appreciate candidates that have conviction, regardless.

44:45Sometimes you disagree with their policies, but if they have conviction, for the most part, that's going to gain you a lot. And number two, where we sit, where I sit now in Oklahoma, we were so upset with Democrats, not necessarily just the candidates, but the way that they message to people that live in rural red states. There's no chance that they're going to watch and listen and vote for that particular candidate. it and it's just if you don't understand rural america then i would urge anybody running for any sort of national office to go spend time go to a church go to a rodeo go go do the things they do it's completely different and if you just don't get it you don't get it here's the problem with that's happening right now and you kind of brought it up with marjorie taylor green and josh um can can attest to all of this.

45:45So in flyover states where we live, people don't think about Israel and Palestine at all. They don't. There's barely any Jewish population, barely any Muslim population, and it seems like a very far off place. When you get in major political circles, AIPAC money and Benjamin Netanyahu and genocide, it's a very pressing issue. But for swaths and millions of people all across the United States. They don't know. Recently, Josh was like, so what exactly is a Zionist? And so, you know, I'm kind of explaining it to him. He's an attorney. Yeah, I'm a lawyer, and it's just not something. My nephews that are attorneys, one's a federal marshal.

46:32They're both Democrats. We're like, yeah, that whole Palestine's getting kind of fucked up, and I don't really understand what's going on there. Here's where Marjorie Taylor Greene, and I'll be goddamned if she's this smart. Her saying the following things is going to hit very hard with rural voters that don't pay attention or suburban voters that don't pay attention when she says the following. MAGA and the Democrats are not America first. They are Israel first. People in Israel have health care and they get to go to college for free and you pay for it and you're going medically bankrupt. Now, Marjorie Taylor Greene is an anti-Semite.

47:09She's a bigot. She's a homophobe. she's a grifter she's an opportunist yak yak blah blah but Josh who lived in a town of 5 ,000 people that is a simple message that the Democrats should be owning 100 screaming browbeating instead of nuanced conversations it's so simple to say it but everybody feels like they've been checkmated like oh I have these Jewish friends and I don't want to hurt their feelings and the situation is the Democrats should take leadership on this and say, what we're talking about is different than you supporting your Jewish friends. It's completely different. We're talking about a regime that deserves to be criticized in the same way that you hope as an American right now that people criticize Donald Trump.

47:52I don't see any criticism of Donald Trump, a criticism of my being an American. Actually, the patriot in me, which I rarely use that word, welcomes that sort of criticism. And I wish that our allies would act more like President Xi did with him. And I wish that they would quit bending the knee and kissing his ass like the oligarchs do. And I think that is one of the more pro-American things you can do. So we're in a very dangerous situation where you have a large majority of the electorate that doesn't understand or know about this foreign policy issue, number one. And number two, and this is going to hurt a lot of people, but a lot of them don't give a fuck because they're going to the doctor and the doctor says you need an MRI and I'm so sorry your insurance isn't going to pay for it and we think it's cancer but there's nothing we can do.

48:42But Marjorie Taylor Greene is connecting those two issues disingenuously as you say. You know I really am scared about that because she is actually anti-Semitic. You are seeing the rise in anti-Jewish hatred on the right in particular with figures like Candace Owens and And Tucker Carlson just had Nick Fuentes on, who was a neo-Nazi. I mean, he's being organized. And I think Tucker's going to run. Oh, I think that's a good hypothesis. I think Marjorie Taylor Greene's got her eye on that, too. But she's got the whole woman thing. That might be a little bit of a problem with Republican voters. But I digress.

49:12I think, like, that simple message, it's isolationist. And where you're saying, like, as if, I don't know, we couldn't also have health care here as well. I mean, we could tax billionaires and keep funding Israel. I don't think it's a binary choice. Although I do not think we should be definitely funding a country that's committing a genocide. But you hear the way Marjorie Taylor Greene frames it, right? Simple. It's very simple. It makes about people's material reality. When you dig a little deeper, she's a Christian nationalist. And she is like anti-Jewish in the way where she tweeted back at AIPAC something about, I'm not going to take your shekels or something.

49:50It's like, whoa, whoa. And she's a rapture prepper. Right, right. Josh said to me when this whole Israel thing, you know, really started steaming up during the last election, Josh goes, why is it that all the politicians I hate, like Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, they're the biggest Israel thumpers? Because it's about being bought by the military industrial complex, because the reason that this issue is so important isn't just because it's like the fundamental human rights issue of this current time. It's also because it's a stand in for are you bought by corporate interests or are you not? Can you be brave on this issue or can you not be?

50:26And people trust you if you can be brave on it because it's a shorthand. OK, that person's not bought by X amount of money. They're going to say how they feel. And so I think that's part of what the Democrats are slow to catch up to about. Well, and that's unfortunate because you then have politicians that can't speak their mind and give honest opinions and answers like Cory Booker on your show. You're just handicapped. You hurt the credibility of the party. But there's also, and this isn't to sound to minimize this issue, but most of the people in rural America don't care about this issue. They don't care.

51:07I hear you on that. I just get on my soapbox. No, no. I agree, but I do. And so does Jennifer. We care greatly about it. I think the Democrats need to message, and Zoran talks about this, universal human rights. Exactly. And they can message it, but they take advantage of the fact these these rural voters and suburban voters, people that live in very homogenous neighborhoods, whether that's urban, suburban or rural like white areas. They take for granted these voters because they know they're already in their silos. And the Democratic Party is looking to flip these elusive independents. And they're always looking for this elusive voter.

51:51And I think the reason that this podcast is so popular is because of the optics of us. You know, southern, middle-aged white women, it's like, oh, shit, they're progressive. I thought they would be, you know, we look kind of Fox News coded, et cetera. But it's so condescending. Right. I'm sorry. It just is. I also think it's kind of sad. Yeah. The reason we're novel, I think, is also somewhat sad. But I think that there is a movement forming and I think there are fissures in the MAGA movement. And I think there are fissures in the Democratic Party right now. And these fissures are really, really getting traction.

52:30On the right, you have the Marjorie Taylor Greene, the Tucker Carlson's that they are seeing that the strong man is frail. And that's what ultimately crumbles these forms of strong men. When he's frail, dementia, all of the stuff. They're seeing curtains. Moses Mike Johnson is rearranging the deck chairs on Titanic. He's going down with kinks. And then on the right, you have these fissures forming. And, you know, Hakeem Jeffries, Chuckles, Cory Booker, they're going to have a hard time surviving. Yeah, hopefully. The Democratic base is really, really pissed. And when I think about it, and Josh was so mad about this before me, that Biden didn't drop out sooner.

53:13He was so fucking mad. And he's like, I'm so fucking mad at the Democrats. It pisses me off. I can't believe they didn't do anything about January 6th. He was so fucking mad. And it's unfortunate that the burden always falls on our side to do the right thing. But look how depraved the right is. Yeah, they are so morally depraved and they have no problem passing the big heaping pile of dog shit bill and telling people that somehow, you know, like Mike Johnson and Ted Cruz, the Christian signal, they use their faith to make it sound like we're doing everything that Jesus wants us to do. And it's really abhorrent.

53:57But I have seen so many white women who have a lot of money lately, whose husbands are now calling them communists because that's how far left they've gone. And that's anecdotal. But the more and more I talk to people, the more I realize one thing happened, one of two things happened to you with Trump. You either became worse of a human being. If you triple trumped with each time that you did that, you became worse and worse and worse. And you could look no further than like Marco Rubio and his lost soul to see how damaging it is to do that. Or you've become more and more progressive and you have like I used to be a good MSNBC Democrat.

54:35I was really good at it. And no disrespect to MSNBC. A lot of people on there do a lot of good work. But I really started digging deeper. Like, why are they so robotic? why can't they beat these people this should be a layup a layup and they can't beat them and you start digging into it and the corporate dim thing is so real listener the hot book of the summer take two listener the hot book of the summer is now the cool book of the fall it is in trump's America, I can tell you with absolute certainty, the best book that has ever been written. And believe me, a lot of people are talking about it.

55:21Everybody's talking about it. Everybody's talking about it. It took us one day to write it. Because we're on day one. Because we took a cognitive test and it was book, write, done. All right. Anyway, please buy our book. It's a great way to support us. It is a really fun read for the fall. Curl up with your pumpkin spice lattes and just enjoy living the American dream and dipshit Trump's America.

55:54I think that you're right about like the fight between the Republican base might end up being more fracturous than what I see unifying like momentum right now, at least within the Democratic base. The politicians, that's the disconnect is the Democratic representatives and our leadership are not stepping up here. But I do see that the base is kind of understanding like the billionaires of the problem here. And we can tax the hell out of them and provide incredible services for a population. And that's de-radicalizing in and of itself. There's academic papers on when people's material conditions are worse, things like domestic violence increase because men feel like they have no agency in their professional life and they take it out on their spouse.

56:39And there's different other kinds of crime that that leads to or violence. Because the way to make a safer society is to make sure that people's basic material needs are met. And that's been something that's been really radicalizing. And at my old gig, I was going to basically one Trump rally a week. And it would be like in eastern Tennessee or in northern Florida or whatever. So I'm not saying I've lived in the South for a while, but I did do that for a little while early on in my career. year. And what you notice is that it's a perverse sense of community, but when you go to these MAGA rallies, it's people that feel like they have some sense of community.

57:20And we're so atomized, and we're in our cars and going to work, and nine to five, and you come home, or maybe you have to do another job as an Uber driver because you can't support your family, and people feel like they're on a razor's edge economically. And so they retreat to something like that, whether it's the megachurch or it's the Trump rally, where they feel like they have a common purpose. And what I hope can come out of this is that the liberals and the left base can come together with a common purpose of building a durable opposition to fascism. Because when you talk about not prosecuting January 6th, like everything that Biden did, it's just wiped out.

57:59I mean, there's no durability because they didn't provide a movement. It's easy just not to want to just be mad about that every second of every day. And I try my best not to be. But another thing, and I pose this to Jennifer on the way over here, if you're in an argument or if I'm in a jury trial against opposing counsel and they're lying or they're cutting below the belt, and I stand up and I am full of integrity and I am going to do the right thing, and then I'm going to get my ass kicked every single fucking time. Now, it doesn't mean I have to be a liar, but I have to be able to recognize that and call it out.

58:38And the Democrats, if they don't get a solution for that, if they don't have some kind of fundamental understanding that they play this game and we're playing this game, if there's no appreciation for that as just a premise, then they will lose every single time because you're dealing with people that are pathological fucking liars that spread propaganda. And you want to truth your way out of that. And you want to integrity your way out of that. And you want to do this and you're going to get your ass fucking kicked every time. This is why I'm a proponent of fuck you politics brought to you by progressives.

59:14I mean, I just think we have to like right now, Glenn Beck and Fox News and what's his name? Temple are really mad at me. And I'm going viral. Like I only am on Instagram. It's the only social media that I do. And that's just to watch tennis videos and French Bulldogs. So I got on my Instagram and it's like, die, bitch. You're a tranny. All of these horrible, horrible things. So I text the producer of our show and I'm like, Kylie, am I going viral right now? And she goes, yes, you are. Fox News, Glenn Beck, Temple. And I'm like, what's this about this time? And they said they say that you want to kill conservatives.

59:48I'm like, what? Did I ever say what? And it was that clip of this wine mom, like older than me, even at like no kings. And this Christian commentator is like, are you sad that Charlie Kirk's dead? And the lady's like, no, I'm really not. He was not a good person. Yeah. Like, I don't like the guns, but I'm not sad. She's like, would you be sad if I died? And the lady's like, well, I'd have to think about that. So after that clip, I say to our podcast audience, this is where the Democrats are right now. It's more of a fuck your feelings, you know. And so, of course, they're melting down. Stage five meltdown by what's self-proclaimed alpha male temple, who clearly is a titty baby.

1:00:33You should go back and check out my debate with him if you want some fun content. He had a complete meltdown. OK, Emma, let's have a little bit of fun. Sure. We're going to play our world famous game, Had It or Hit It. And Josh, I'm going to leave. You can do this, too, since you're our guest co-host. Oh, I get to participate. You get to participate. Oh, thank you. Oh, my God. Welcome to Had It or Hit It. I would hit it. Had it. Had it. I hit it every day, sometimes twice a day. Had it or hit it. Ice. Had it with ice. I mean, this Gestapo that's terrorizing communities is absolutely out of control.

1:01:12These fat asses that have no training. They are disgusting thugs that should be treated like pigs on our streets. They are horrible, horrible people. And AOC in 2018 was being called a radical for saying abolish ICE. ICE didn't exist before 9-11. We can abolish ICE. It came out of the war on terror, and it does not need to exist. We can have a much more humane immigration system than what we're seeing right now. I do want to add to this. There are two ICE agents in Illinois that refused to participate. They walked off. And so I've hit those guys. Hit those agents. Those two guys. Okay, that's a good one.

1:01:52But the rest of them I've had. Had it. Okay. You guys, had it or hit it? Katie Miller. Oh, had it. Josh, Katie Miller is the wife of Stephen Miller. Stephen Miller is the little four-foot troll. I didn't know who she was. I'm sorry. And she just did a whole – she started a podcast, and now she's been on, like, But she was on Piers Morgan, had a stage five meltdown and got in a fight with, I guess, your former boss. Yeah, I saw that. And it was amazing. She accused it. It was like an anti-Semitism accusation because I forget what he said. She was raising Jewish children, she said. And he goes, nobody's talking about your kids or you being Jewish.

1:02:29I mean, I've had it with her and her Nazi-ass husband. OK, how did her hit it? Centrism. Had it. I would have to say that it goes against. Pick a side. Having any kind of balls and standing for something. There's no way everybody's going to agree with you, but have some balls. Stand up for something. Have some conviction. People respect that more than they do. People that will lie and say, speak out of both sides of their mouth and say whatever. Right. I agree. And I think centrism is like the pick me of politicians. They don't want to make anybody dislike them. Therefore, they are forgettable.

1:03:03It's also why we're here. Exactly. You can't make milquetoast centrist cases. You have to make your argument. Don't be afraid of making your argument. And that is how you build a political brand. I don't know if we're doing lightning round, but this is just one point I wanted to push in there is just like after 2012, the Republican Party sent out a memo saying we need to rehaul all of our immigration relate because they lost so badly with Latino voters. We need to rethink immigration. We need to be more friendly to immigrants. That was what the Republican internal memo was saying. 2016, next election cycle, Trump or presidential election cycle, Trump comes in is vicious, disgusting to immigrants.

1:03:39And the metrics didn't reflect that. But he has indelibly changed for the worse, the immigration debate forever because he just made his argument. Yep. I agree. I agree. Okay. Had it or hit it, Riley Gaines. Had it. I mean. Do you know who she is? I don't. Okay. sorry. Mediocre swimmer tied for fifth place. She is this woman that tied for fifth place against a trans female swimmer. And she has made a career off of tying for fifth place. So here's the thing. They're still trotting this narrative out. If the trans person hadn't swam in that race, she still would have gotten fifth. She's just mad she had to tie.

1:04:22Tied. And now she's like a conservative influencer about it. I mean, there is nothing more that right wingers get mad about than white cis women like you or me defending trans women because they like to think of themselves as the savior of white women because trans women, they say, are like either rapists or threats or going to ruin our sports. They didn't care about women's sports until they got to crap on trans women. They were making fun of the WNBA my whole life. Totally. But because we look like the kind of women that like, you know, white supremacists like to hold up as the ones that they're saving from the racist black and brown and trans and LGBTQ hordes.

1:04:57They get really triggered when you stand up for trans people. That's my experience. Let me add that I want the Democrats to be as diabolical as Republicans are on this issue of trans athletes. Yeah. I would like a Democrat with all of these issues that we have in our favor to take one of those. and then just get twisted and fucking diabolical. And not just get twisted, but just nail it. I've got it right here. The DL demon queen problem that exists in MAGA. Yeah. I don't know if it's true or not, but I think there's a lot of evidence, and I get major gay darpings from, as you know, Moses Mike Grinder Johnson, Josh Hawley, failed drag queen, smoky-eyed sociopath J.D.

1:05:44Vance, who we refer to as Little Smokey. Marco Rubio. And I think Lindsey Graham. Lindsey Graham. Tim Scott. Tim Scott. And I think that here's the problem with a lot of these maggot men. And I think we should just go number one. I read a report that the number one consumers of trans porns are red cities. The epicenter of all consumption of trans porn watching is Lawton, Oklahoma. Oh my God. Lawton, Oklahoma. And then you just sweep through the Bible Belt. And so I think the Democrats need to be this fucking diabolical. Why are you picking on trans people during the day and then behind your wife's back, you're beaten off to trans porn, Lindsay?

1:06:27What's going on there? Moses, Mike, Grindr, Johnson, what's going on with your Grindr account? And why do you have this roommate that is an evangelical preacher that answers his door in his panties per your neighbors when you come home from work, the speaker of the house? And I think they should pound it and pound it right into the heart of their faux masculinity because at the end of the day a lot of these MAGA men have been watching porn and here's what's happened they saw an erect penis and maybe that was when it happened or they came and then felt a lot of shame and then trained it I mean that's kind of what it is oh my god that was kind of gay and then they go crazy and It's like, I'm anti-trans, I'm anti-gay.

1:07:07Nobody gives a shit. Nobody cares. Also, if you are insecure about your masculinity, you need to really, really define what is female and male. These are men that they overcompensate because they're so insecure about their masculinity that they create really rigid rules. And it burns you up inside. But I think it's there for the taking. The Democrats have these issues that would resonate with people if they can just simply get them out there. But with these Republicans, you're going to have to have some fucking crazy in you. You've got to have to be diabolical. You're going to have to get mud on your face.

1:07:44And I'll tell you what, real voters would like it. You're going to have to get down in the mud with them. And I'm sorry, but you can't go low here. How would Hugo, Oklahoma like that if somebody just came out, started just, Moses Mike Johnson is clearly on Grindr and he's lying to you. All of that stuff would resonate because, and we can't underestimate this, What resonated about Trump in 16 was that he was unorthodox and would say what came to his mind. I'm not saying it's authentic. I'm not saying I agreed with it. But it resonated. He was a different type of politician, whether you agree or disagree.

1:08:14He was different. Yeah. OK, last one. Yeah. Last one. This is a tricky one. OK. Had it or hit it. The United States of America. Hit it. I'm I'm it's testing me right now. But at the end of the day, why I do what I do, it's definitely not for the money. It's because I love the country. And I do believe in humanity overall. We're in a really dark period right now. But I do think that the country can be better. I think that we can provide more things for people. We're the wealthiest nation in the world. There's no reason that we should currently have a record of credit card debt that people are experiencing, that month over month that people are defaulting more and more on their car payments.

1:08:57We're getting in this amazingly economic precarious situation or that we have thugs deployed by the federal government breaking up families because they tried to come to this country for a better life. I grew up with the idea that we are a nation of immigrants and that was a value that was instilled in me. And I think we can do that again. It's just that we're in a very dark period right now and we need an opposition party that can make that case and make it with their chest and don't equivocate and don't hide from it. And you've been doing such great work, Jennifer, seriously. Thank you. On making it that making it so that, you know, it's we weren't my wing of the party was not listened to that much over the past like eight years.

1:09:37And my support for Bernie Sanders and people like the squad. But I think the base is starting to see that those are the real fighters and those are the people that are equipped to fight because they're not bought. Yep. I would say hit it for some of the same reasons that Emma said, but for the main reason that when I go to court in, for example, Paws Valley, Oklahoma, or when I go to court in Mangum, Oklahoma, most people that I talk to, if you get out of this political spectrum of being on social media, all the interactions I have with people, they're pretty kind. They're pretty nice. People are inherently good in general.

1:10:17And if you can remove all of this bullshit, all this toxic bullshit that's in our life every day, you see that. Whether it's, you know, for a long time I had to go visit with this one prosecutor to try to work out a really nasty case. You remember that one? No, and he's got the picture of Trump being shot on his door. He's a prosecutor and he's a good friend. Okay. But I would walk in and we would talk. And I'm from a small town, so I know the drill. Like, I get it. No, I have Republican friends. Yeah. But he and I were friends. And, like, I could literally, if something happened, I could call him at any point in time.

1:10:58He would do anything. But people just in general. Like, I lost my wallet that was attached to my phone at the mall. And someone pulled it up and found my driver's license in it and had a credit card and drove it straight to my house. and put it in my mailbox. And it's just little things like that. When you see people, they're inherently good. Most people are. And don't lose sight of that when you're reading through all of this toxic shit that gets on our feed every single day. Don't lose sight of that. Regardless of what party they identify with, most people have a good heart. I will just, one more thing.

1:11:31Michael Brooks was the co-host of my show before he passed, before I joined, actually, tragically. And he used to say, I'm paraphrasing again, but be kind to be people, but ruthless to systems and institutions. And I think that's a pretty good guiding light. That is so good. That's 100 percent. And don't don't be silent or complicit. But but at the same time, yeah, that's good. That is so good. All right. Listen, thank you, Emma. Thank you. Thank you for joining. I was on Emma's podcast and we met virtually and this is our first time to meet in real life. Josh, thank you for co-hosting. listener pumps will be back from her lesbian sexcapade next week for my best yeah and maybe she'll pull up to the podcast in a u-haul oh yeah yeah that would be really exciting could you help me move some things into my new apartment i need some help all right thank you everybody and we'll see you next tuesday and thursday

1:12:30listen up patriots gaytriots and natriots we have a new podcast that has dropped it's called ihip news it's monday through friday every day 15 to 20 minute hot takes on the political landscape of the united states of america always served with a side of petty grievances We are on all the available platforms, Apple, Spotify, Google, whatever you get your podcast and YouTube. Please go rate, subscribe and review so that we will chart upwards with America's greatest legal mind. Pumps, what does an eagle say? Caw-caw! A little bit more enthusiasm. Caw-caw! That's it. That's the patriotism that this country needs right there.

1:13:22Thank you.