Mission: Impeachable

24:56Angie Sullivan:Oh my God. happening. Yes. What if nobody does it? It's like the I've had it effect. Crash and burn. I think movements with the pennies and penny loafers. I mean, I think we can start a movement here. Leadership starts at the top. It does. I think this is probably the first time a lot of them have heard of a penny loafer. Had you ever heard of it? I have heard of it. Did you know that people put pennies in them? I think that my father did this when I was young. Yeah, it was a big thing. Yeah, that would make sense. Do you remember this, Pumps? This is something that the kids don't know about, all of our STD-free Gen Zs.

25:37Angie Sullivan:Which I'm so proud. Sock liberators. So as we're in the 80s, we're just living our lives, right? And there's like this Coke and Pepsi battle. And they had these like battle commercials. And it was like, what's better, Coke or Pepsi? And we didn't have phones. So commercials were a huge part of pop culture. And everybody like was pretty much where we lived. It was kind of ended up being regional wars. But in the South where we lived, it was Coke. Yeah. And Dr. Pepper was under the Coke umbrella and kind of based in Texas. And so like I remember I was a Dr. Pepper person, but I linked Coke. And then all of a sudden, out of the clear blue sky, out of nowhere, right around the time Michael Jackson's hair caught on fire.

26:22Angie Sullivan:Yeah. coke rolls out this commercial that they've changed the formula new coke yeah and they're like it's like coke but here's the new coke and they roll out this this thing and i remember you know watching tv going they changed coke and remind gen z millennials commercials and mtv that's that's it that's a list other than that we were outside and we were feral human beings whose parents didn't give a fuck where we were who we were talking to what we were doing period we were just completely feral human beings. And so this was like a big thing. So I get 7-Eleven and I taste the new Coke and it's terrible.

27:01Angie Sullivan:Terrible. It's terrible. And again, we don't have an online town square where you can go and talk about this. So you're just talking about it in your friend groups or a local journalist is out and man on the streets like, what do you think of the new Coke? And then you're getting it from your TV, which by the way, didn't have a remote control. It was like a piece of furniture, wood, you had to get up, kind of turn it later, like in high school, I think we had remote controls. But anyway, so then everybody's just in an uproar about the Coke changing its flavor. And then they launch Coca-Cola Classic.

27:36Angie Sullivan:Classic. Yeah. And they take it back. So my question is, is the new Coke still on the market? I was just thinking that when you asked, I think it's not. I think it was such an abysmal failure that it wasn't. I think they pulled it pretty quick. I mean, and they were side by side for a little bit and then it just went away with very little fanfare, if I'm remembering correctly, because it was bad. It's the equivalent of like Chipotle saying, we're changing our menu. Right. We're a Chinese restaurant. It was that crazy. That's how it felt. It was just like, we were all like, what the fuck? And then you tasted the new Coke and it had a new, it had a logo and it said new Coke.

28:15Angie Sullivan:And I remember everybody was in an uproar about it. And this, don't you feel like this was around the time Michael Jackson's head caught on fire? Yeah. It was definitely that age group. Yeah. Cause I was older than you. And I think that was like, do you remember when Michael Jackson hung blanket out the window in Germany? Yes. That's kind of weird shit. Wasn't it weird shit? And then I found out blanket's real name is Prince Michael again. So he's got two Prince Michaels, kind of like George Foreman has like eight boys named George Foreman. I mean, in Michael's defense in that, my kids have a million nicknames.

28:51No, but I'm just saying like, I didn't, I've never heard of people naming their kids the same names. Like I barely can name my kids. I mean, I call them the same name all the time, but just like if I had three Emily's, that's even more confusing trying to get somebody. I see what you mean. Right. Like, I mean, we've got Prince Michael, Prince Michael. It's like, how do you differentiate which one you're talking about? Well, you call one blanket.

29:15Angie Sullivan:That's what you call one blanket. Yeah. So you just say here, this could get really confusing. So your blanket, you're just gonna be blanket. Yeah. All right. So Kylie, thank you for the Gen Z stuff. I really like the Gen Z and I'm happy about her journey and her sharing her sock journey. And I want more Gen Z's to share their sock journey and send us videos of your socks, putting pennies in your penny loafers and putting them on, putting on TikTok and starting a movement. I'm going to get some of those socks. I know they're so cute. I loved them. I used to work, my mother would sew little dresses for me.

29:56Angie Sullivan:We would go to TGNY and we would look at, we would look at the patterns, you know, and we would pick the fabric and she'd get the pattern and she would sew a dress for me and I would wear the little lace socks. Very impressed she can make a dress. That's impressive. I know, she was really good at that. And you know, it's so funny about Linda, she's so progressive and she's so not that, like, she's so not a home ec type. Like she never really cooked a meal for us ever. I remember I had a boyfriend and his parents were like Christian and like the mom was a total homemaker, knew how to make like homemade casseroles and all this shit, right?

30:31Angie Sullivan:so he's over at my house and my dad says Linda what are we gonna do for dinner and mom's like I don't know Rick and he's like why don't you heat up one of those frozen pizzas and she goes Rick I just really don't feel like cooking tonight I thought nothing of it I thought that was I thought that was cooking but Sean like busts out laughing and he thinks we're all joking and we weren't like we were all dead serious like mom's not going to cook tonight aka heat up a piece of it she could sew and it was always something fun we would do we would go and you would look at the pattern books and pick out a little dress and then I would go pick the fabric and then she would whip out a sewing machine and she would sew it that's very impressive I mean it's when I was really little we would do that it's really fun then I got I think she was over it at that point and then yeah it was fun for a while but I wanted to live there speaking of which I am reading a book about Trad Wives.

31:26It's a fiction book, but it's like the super Trad Wife influencer. Like she's all in on being a full-time Trad Wife influencer. Then she gets dropped into a Trad Wife situation. So more to come because I love it. So I hate this woman so much in this book, but yeah, I mean, the Trad Wife thing, I'm super dying to finish this book and see what happens to her. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's new series, East of Eden. A bold reimagining of John Steinbeck's masterpiece following generations of the Trask family through love, betrayal, and the choices that shape humanity. Starring Mike Feist and Christopher Abbott as the Trask brothers and Florence Pugh as Kathy Ames, the complex anti-heroine determined to build the life she wants, no matter the cost.

32:17Watch East of Eden, October 1st, only on Netflix.

32:21Angie Sullivan:Okay, I've got a story here. Dog owners have started a new kind of support group. Let's pop this up. Welcome to Dogs Anonymous, the online support group for pet owners on the brink, in quotes. This is a place where you can come and say, I fucking hate my dog today. A Dogs Anonymous co-founder tells Wired. And there are people who are going to be like, yeah, that was me last Tuesday. And so here is a screen grab from the article. Just past 6 p.m. on a recent Wednesday night, half a dozen pet owners logged into a Zoom meeting to confess something they're afraid to talk about in public. They're fed up with their dogs.

33:09Angie Sullivan:Other attendees confessed their private shames. A shepherd mix had started engaging in more intense resource guarding when around other dogs, the term for when dogs aggressively protect something they value. He got into it with my sister's little wiener dog the other day because they both were begging for food. One woman who lives in a busy apartment complex needed advice on how to better handle her dachshund's constant barking at strangers. In the spirit of anonymity, Dogs Anonymous asked Wired to leave out the names and identifying characteristics of its participants. The founders say the effectiveness of the group doesn't necessarily stem from the advice they impact during meetings, but comes from members bonding over shared struggles.

33:56Angie Sullivan:The magic of AA, the community, is that you are going through something that somebody else has either been through or they're getting through the same thing. This approach called sharing your experience, strength, and hope is a core part of the 12-step recovery program and encourages members to analyze their experience in a way that makes them feel less alone. I'm just going to say this. Okay. It is a false equivalency to equate the struggles of addicts and those who love addicts and that 12-step program. with daily irritations of being a pet owner. Now listen, I think it's 100 % valid. Like I've talked to you about my dog, you know, got oral warts from probably licking somebody's private parts out on the streets of New York and I'd had it with him and I was pissed off.

34:53Angie Sullivan:That problem is nowhere near the depths and all of the things that addicts go through. However, I don't want to be a poo-pooer here because I do believe in connectedness and sharing grievances, which is what this podcast is. And I do think sometimes dogs can be twats. For example, Miss Cha-Cha and the German Shepherd situation is getting worse. Really? Not better. Josh was here over the weekend. I see it blocked down. I see this gorgeous, gorgeous German Shepherd. and I can tell this is a smart one that probably went to one of those schools you know like he was really pretty and you could just see that this dog was smart immediately locked on cha-cha cha-cha immediately locks in on him I have to get the leash and like get it down because we can pass a wiener dog we can pass uh you know a doodle any of the doodles any type of doodle she could give two shits but German shepherds for some reason personally I think it goes back to World War II but she has had it and we start to cross and she is i mean i have her but she wants to go attack the german shepherd total twat behavior um would love to tell the people in the group about this but by no means is that anywhere near the depths of hell that i went through right in loving my husband and doing an interventions to get him sober or in loving you and the intervention we did to get you sober.

36:26Angie Sullivan:It's just not even in the same ballpark to bring AA into this is my only rub on that. Yeah. And I would have appreciated them saying like, here's the thing that I like about AA so much is that you don't feel alone and then you can relate to, and I think sometimes you have such a heart, you think that your problems are so unique and I'm the only person that ever thought anything that's stupid and how could the relating to and the like, okay, a lot of people have felt that. So I get that part of it, but I agree with you. They're not the same. And here's my thing. I fucking called you up and said, I fucking hate her guts about my two-year-old daughter.

37:06So I have no shame in saying I fucking hate my kids, but I mean, a lot of people do, but you were a safe space. I probably wouldn't have done that with every person, but I just think you have to vent. And let me just tell you what fucking made me just goes all through me about Oliver, who we all know is my favorite child, even though he's universally unpopular with everyone else. And naughty AF. He's naughty. Yeah. He's really bad. He's just, he's good to me. He's a bad boy. Okay. So he is obsessed with dogs on TV.

37:39Angie Sullivan:Okay. When I, when he stayed with me, it's unbelievable how much you watch TV. It's unbelievable. So I didn't even know this and I don't even know why this is, but like my screensaver on my TV, when I pause a video or something is Snoopy, which I don't know why it just is. So I'm in there brushing my teeth and my, and he is going fucking crazy and it's Snoopy. I'm just like, I cannot catch a break. And you know, I love to watch British shows. I started a new one last night. I was super excited. There's all these dogs in British shows. I couldn't watch it because he got bananas. He gets Tilly going.

38:17It's just like, fuck it. I'll watch something else. So I say bitch about your dogs. If you're not bitching about your kids and dogs, something's up. Something's not right. Or your spouse.

38:28Angie Sullivan:Or your spouse. That's just life. I think we need to normalize bitching about the stuff that we love. And it doesn't mean not loving them. I think that there's this projection that everything that is love is perfect. Love is messy. Taking care of other human beings is messy. The Sharing is messy. Friendships are messy. Relationships are messy. Parenthood is messy. Dog ownership is messy. You know, you get home from work and your dog's chewed up some shoe you spend a lot of money on. Nobody likes that. Ain't nobody got time for that. Oh, my God. Ain't nobody got time for that. Let me ask you this.

39:08Angie Sullivan:I want to get back to this AA thing because I want to ask you this. So back when I was younger and my kids were, I mean, a toddler and a baby and Josh, I was really beside myself. You know, I just, I could not wrap, my parents weren't drinkers. I couldn't wrap my head around the disease of addiction. I personalized it. I felt like when he did a drug that that was personally, he made a personal choice. I love this more than I do, Jennifer, and my kids. That's how I absorbed it. That's how I felt it. And it leveled me. It wrecked me to my core. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't eat. I was heartbroken beyond anything.

39:48And I was struggling with this idea that love was hurting me so much, that loving him was

39:56Angie Sullivan:so painful. So I went to an Al-Anon meeting and I got an Al-Anon sponsor. and in these meetings I was not a good candidate for it at all because it was I remember I walked into this meeting and I shared something and I didn't have a problem sharing I wanted to share where I was and I was willing to try anything or do anything and then it was another lady's turn and in the AA book they call it higher power instead of God most of the time sometimes there's references to God but they call it higher power. And this lady says, and this is in Oklahoma city. She goes, you can call it higher power all you want to, but for me, it's the blood of Jesus Christ all over me.

40:47Angie Sullivan:And I was just like, I have zero, zero in common with this person, zero, like nothing. And then with my Al-Anon sponsor, she was very nice. And I really tried. I was willing to do anything. The solution for everything was just pray about it. Just pray about it. Just pray about it. I don't pray. Like I was raised by atheists. That is not a part of my daily life. I'm like, you know, I've tried it before and I'm like, hey, you there? Can you really hear me? What I'm saying in my brain? Like it doesn't compute that that's a real thing for me. And I know that's weird for all of you that were raised with that.

41:26Angie Sullivan:And as children that you did that and you think somebody can hear your thoughts. That's for a person that's not indoctrinated. And that's a really weird concept because for me, my thoughts are my own. I manage them. I have autonomy and agency over them. That is my private space, which is not just that I'm not trying to knock prayer here. It was just weird for me to think that I have all of these problems. Then I could just talk to somebody in my head. They hear it. That was going to help it. so you know obviously got out of al-anon and went to one-on-one therapy which was more analytical and it was more feedback oriented and no knock on anybody who has found peace or serenity in in alcoholics anonymous or al-anon likewise for josh josh relapsed several times when we were younger which relapse is a huge part of addiction but a lot of it was because the only solution that was served up to him was Alcoholics Anonymous.

42:24Angie Sullivan:And he was, he's an atheist raised by an atheist as well, which is probably why we're the only two in Oklahoma. That's why we found each other bread and we're here, are here together today because there's not that many atheists in Oklahoma. But he found the same thing. Like he would go to these meetings of God, prayer, God, prayer, higher power, fix this, let go, let God, blah, blah. And it's really difficult if you're not in that. So I started researching AA and Al-Anon. Well, it turns out the founders are huge evangelicals. And so that's why it's peppered like that. Furthermore, it has a abysmal, abysmal success rate, 7%.

43:03Angie Sullivan:And I think this is such a horrible thing that happens to addicts is that this is the one way that you can get sober. And it has a 7 % success rate. Imagine if the doctor said, you have cancer and you have a 7 % chance to live. That is abysmal. But when people go into big rehab, which is a multi-billion dollar industry, they are told these are the only ways you can stay sober. And I say all of this because every time we talk about addiction, and Josh and I are very open about our journey with this, because I want to help others because I know how painful it is. That like everything, there's not a one size fits all type situation with this stuff.

43:51Angie Sullivan:And so just kind of like the socks, you know, maybe you're a no-show, maybe you're a lace frill, maybe you change intermittently between the two. But when it comes to addiction, and I know that a lot of you are probably zeroed in right now, because when Josh was at his worst, my ears and antennas were open to anything that I could absorb and understand because I needed to understand the science behind it. Right. I needed to understand that when I told you, listener, that I personally felt that Josh chose the drug, the Oxycontin or the drink, that he said, I like this more than I like Jennifer, Dylan and Roman.

44:31Angie Sullivan:What I learned through therapy and talking to people who understand addiction, addiction sits in the fight or flight reflex of the brain. It's called the hypothalamus. So it is a survival instinct. And when the addict's brain chemistry is off kilter, they're looking for survival. And because that addiction, that addict gene sits in that thing. So for them, drinking or taking a drug means I am surviving. I am going to live right now. And that was really, I mean, it took me, I heard that mentally. my heart didn't accept that for many, many, many years because it takes a long time to really understand it.

45:11Angie Sullivan:But to anybody on here, if AA works for you, love it for you. I think it's fabulous. But if it doesn't, there are so many other ways. And Josh has found, you know, one-on-one therapy and connecting even with friends that aren't necessarily in the program, but are privy to what addiction is. And just owning it and talking about it openly without shame. And And I'm sorry, all of this triggered all of that. But I think it's really important stuff because I suspect that Donald Trump has drove up addiction rates. Oh, for sure. And he acts like an untreated addict. For me, it's just I go to AA a couple times a month just to kind of keep my foot in the door.

45:52It's not super gaudy, the one I go to, but it's old people that are very serious about the separation. If I went to a younger one, it probably would be. But my thing with addiction is the connection. You have to be connected and you have to make a conscious choice to do for other people. That's what I have found helps me the most is connecting with other people. And when I'm worried, when I'm doing something for someone else, I'm not thinking about me.

46:21Angie Sullivan:Yeah. Addiction is a thinking about me all the time disease. You know what somebody told me? And I thought this was so true. addiction is the most selfish disease on the planet when they're using it's all about them and the recovery is all about them on both ends of it it is a me first disease and it's it's really true but so that's why i think and that is in the steps like the giving back but i think that's really really true for addicts but also for me as well when i am you know doing stuff for others and not in my own head that's a lesson i feel better whether yeah it feels good it feels good But I do think pumps like think about all the family breakups, the divorces, the parents not talking to children, children not talking to parents that have come from Trump.

47:12Angie Sullivan:Yeah. And I bet at some point somebody will do an addiction analysis on this thing. And I bet he has drove up, driven up addiction rates. Well, yeah, because it's uncertainty. Am I going to be I mean, people are going broke in droves. People can't afford food. They can't afford housing. There's just no way around it because all the environmental factors are there. Plus, he's a fucking nutball. Are we going to go to war? Are we going to have a draft? Like all this crazy shit. No, it's true. It's really stressful stuff. I mean, we use this podcast. I mean, we all want to get on here and laugh. But sometimes I think I know that everybody listening loves somebody that's an addict, has struggled from addiction.

47:50Angie Sullivan:Or is one. Yeah. And so I think we have to sometimes talk about these things. And I appreciate the dog support group. I really do. I would be a member of one, but I would never equate having the normal frustrations with dogs to, you know, other things. That was my only pushback on that. But I do love some of the parts of it about, you know, the wiener dogs and stuff like that, I think are quite hilarious. And just dog culture in particular is hilarious. Dog park culture. Like here's just a, I'll leave you all with this grievance. I've had it with people that take their dog to a dog park and take a ball for their dog.

48:27Right.

48:28Angie Sullivan:Why would they even do that? They want to play fetch inside the gates of the dog park with their specific dog and that specific ball. And that is just a bad plan from start to finish. And it causes a lot of fighting and strife. It causes fighting. You should know that. Yeah. And then I didn't bring a dog and then I didn't bring a ball. So then my dogs are looking at me like I'm the asshole owner. And I'm looking at that person like, well thanks a lot right you're making us all look you're like the mom that showed up with the homemade cookies when i went to target and bought a box of oreos you know which i've been to more than once oh me too i'm like cookies today i'm like oh here we go here's some chips ahoy take those to class yeah and then there's some mom that's got you guys they will bring like four tupperware containers yeah nut free dairy free and i'm just like what just happened i thought we were supposed to bring it's crazy yeah or the snack monitors well you can't bring a snack with this and so-and-so brought this it's just like we want to do healthy snacks like shut the fuck up don't tell your kid not to eat it you know with all the uh sex changes going on at school right it's amazing they have time to monitor snacks all right that's all we have make sure you are subscribed to this podcast make sure you are subscribed to ihip news make sure you pre-order my book and we will see you all later

49:50Angie Sullivan:I'll tell you what I've had it with. Let's hear it. I've had it with that.