Supremely Screwed

29:40Leah, here's my question. OK, so I'm a layman. I'm not an attorney. When I think of Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito. Why are you thinking of them? I'll tell you why. Because I live in Oklahoma and I live around some people that are college educated, okay, higher socioeconomic income, and they get radicalized and fall prey to right-wing propaganda. And I kind of get it in Oklahoma because you have these oil and gas guys who have a tendency to lean into that propaganda because it benefits them. But when I think of Alito and he and his wife and their flag flying, and I think of Clarence Thomas and his wife has actually been in a cult before.

30:27She got deprogrammed from a cult before January 6th. I read a whole article on it, right? And then she is texting into the Death Star trying to overturn the election. And as somebody who doesn't have a law degree, I always thought, you know, these people are smart. I thought about Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And, you know, these people are just, you know, kind of can geek out, read all this shit that would bore me to tears. And then I realized, I guess Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito are bored. And so they traffic in right wing entertainment because it's not news. It's entertainment. So my question for you, and then I want pumps to answer it, too, is how is that as an attorney to see like the highest ascension I would imagine is Supreme Court justice in the legal world in the United States of America?

31:17What is that like seeing these fucking nuts? I mean, total kooks, complete psychos at the top of the Supreme Court. I think a nice word for it would be demoralizing. But I think we have been steadily introduced to the media diet that the Republican justices consume and more generally the ecosystem in which they inhabit. Because at oral arguments from the last term, you had Samuel Alito throwing out, well, what if schools are teaching the 1619 Project and CRT? What if schools are telling kids they should be trans and LGBT? And it's clear, again, what media they are consuming. And the same oil and gas interests, you know, that you identify as subjecting people to the entertainment in Oklahoma, I think, honestly, they are behind a lot of what the Republican appointees on the court are exposed to as well.

32:17You know, big corporate interests recognize the importance of controlling the Supreme Court and they have helped to fund this alternative universe in which the justices receive affirmation and validation for buying into these crazy unhinged fringe theories and they get invited to these fancy conferences and vacations and private jet trips when they traffic in that same garbage talk about Clarence Thomas pumps and I've talked about this a lot and his like benefactor what's his name harlan crow harlan crow and this guy collects nazi dishes right and then in like is a big fan of like original nazi shit and then the dynamics of that for clarence thomas to be a black man is just really crazy i've always thought that clarence thomas serves for rich white country club republicans as cover for them to feel a little bit better about how racist they are?

33:16I mean, it is astonishing the volume of gifts and largesse that Justice Thomas himself has received. I mean, Harlan Crowe purchased Justice Thomas's mother's home while she was still living it and, you know, revitalized it. He has funded the biopic of Justice Thomas in which Justice Thomas stares into the camera and announces that his ideal vacation is an RV trip because he's from regular stock and loves regular people while vacationing with Harlan Crowe on these private jets and at these insane locations where Harlan Crowe has constructed a life-size replica of Hagrid's hut from Harry Potter.

34:05So it is astonishing, again, like the amount of money they have pumped into and poured into the Supreme Court in order to coddle the conservatives and Republican justices for going along with their right wing agenda. Let me ask you this. In my mind, it's easier for me to understand how radicalized Alito is because of he's so super religious and they kind of go hand in hand. Was Clarence Thomas raised super religious. Now, I know his wife was in a cult. I get that part. But did he have some kind of underlying cause that let him be so susceptible or is it strictly corruption? So I, you know, in order to understand Clarence Thomas, I think the best insight is really Joel Anderson's season of slow burn becoming Justice Thomas, in which he talks about Clarence Thomas being raised by his grandfather, you know, in an era of segregation and, you know, the different ideas and people he was exposed to his time at Yale and how he was made to feel inadequate.

35:14And he attributed that to the fact that Yale had affirmative action rather than to people being dicks. And, you know, so I can't pretend to know exactly what radicalized Clarence Thomas, but But it is a wild ride looking at that guy's writings. Yeah, he's a nut. Don't y 'all think that like when you have like Scott Besant, the secretary of treasury, he's gay and he's joining all the homophobes in the MAGA movement. Elon Musk fucked around and now he's finding out he's an immigrant and he joins all the anti-immigrant racists. And now Trump's talking about deporting him. Clarence Thomas, black, he joins all the racists.

35:57There has to be from a psychological component, some sort of self-loathing and this desperate desire to get approval from the patriarchy. There is just this desperate desire to get that. And I think some of the female Supreme Court justices seek this because like when you look at Amy Coney Barrett, she's trying to get cut her own way a little bit. But she herself lives in a lot of internalized misogyny. And it's completely forgotten the fight of suffragettes and all of the people like Ruth Bader Ginsburg, but fought for her very right to sit in that fucking chair while she takes away other people's rights.

36:38So I feel like American culture, because we are so diverse, creates a lot of self-loathing within majority groups. And then they go to the inside the Death Star to seek approval. And what's going to happen to poor Scott Besson? You know, Trump's going to drop dead in the next five to 10 years. He's no spring chicken. The dementia is through the roof. And the minute the minute they get him out of the way, they're going to turn the knives on Scott. They're not going to have some gay man in charge of the Treasury. You know, that's just not going to happen. And so it's interesting to me that this component, when you live in a very diverse country like we do, and you see marginalized people that have been exceptional to ascend to where they are.

37:26It's exceptional that Clarence Thomas, a black man, ascended to be a Supreme Court justice, Scott Besson, out of the closet gay man, to ascend to be Secretary of the Treasury. But they join the people who wish to annihilate their group in which they belong. You know, this is just a fascinating dynamic. And one question that I am often asked about my book, because the very first chapter is about how the rise of originalism and the jurisprudence of the Republican justices is just rooted in a backlash to feminism. Right. And hostility to women being people with full rights who are entitled to participate equally.

38:04in the political, economic and social life of the country. And the question is, okay, why are often white women going along with this? And my best answer is patriarchy and misogyny are a hell of a drug. We are still in a society in which getting gold stars, getting power, getting approval too often means cozying up to men and getting the approval of men. And it's really hard to exist in that world while recognizing its problems and recognizing the ways in which, yes, like you were subjected to mistreatment. That doesn't mean you don't deserve the many opportunities you received. But I think it just comes from a desire to pretend the world is something other than it is to imagine that like you are this single meritocratic genius that was selected because you are the best, nothing to do with identity, when the reality is like the Republican Party fucking loves to traffic in identity politics.

39:04They selected Clarence Thomas to replace the first black justice on the Supreme Court, Thurgood Marshall, you know, the grandfather of the civil rights movement who litigated Brown versus Board of Education and got the decision in validating segregated public schools. They got Amy Barrett to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg, you know, the Thurgood Marshall of the feminist movement. You know, who helped create the body of law that treats sex discrimination as presumptively illegal. So they fucking love to do this. And it is such a shallow and hollow vision of what people talk about when they talk about diversity, equity and inclusion.

39:45It is not a kind of tokenism. It is a meaningful conception of what it takes to actually have a pluralistic, multiracial society and democracy. And they just can't understand that. I'm very I love what you said. I do, too. Your plain language communicate a great communicator. OK, another thing we talk about here on here a lot is what a pussy, just an abject pussy Justice Roberts is like not. making conflict of interest, allowing Alito and Thomas to weigh in on these January 6th cases. I'm like, you have no fucking balls. So what's his his what's his legacy going to be? I mean, I think his legacy, we are going to look back at him as such a hollow, superficial institutionalists who oversaw a court that was willing to give in to the rise of authoritarianism and autocracy.

40:48I mean, I think people want to imagine that the chief justice cares about, you know, the institutional integrity of the Supreme Court and our democracy. But the reality is he's still a Republican who is cool with a lot of what the Republicans do. He wants to maintain some superficial appearance of a Supreme Court that isn't partisan, but that has never meant him doing what is substantively necessary to shore up the power and substantive legitimacy of democratic institutions, whether that is the Supreme Court, whether that is Congress, whether that is state legislatures, you name it. He's authored opinions that have paved the way for unlimited money in politics.

41:29He authored the opinion that dismantled a key part of the voting rights at. He authored the opinion that said federal courts can't do jack shit about partisan gerrymandering where voters pick or where legislators pick their voters rather than voters picking legislators. So I just think like he is basically on board with a lot of the worst parts of the Republican Party's agenda. And the few instances in which he has given like a tepid shrug or I don't know about that to a few things are just way overemphasized. You know what I think? I've often thought that within the Trump support, you have the cult that is like they're going to wear the MAGA merch.

42:09They're going to buy the Trump cologne. They're going to wear the shoes. They're going to have trucks in their, you know, flags in their trucks, vanilla ISIS, Y 'all Qaeda, the whole nine, right? Loud and proud. And then you have country club Republicans that are embarrassed, that know better, that have agency over the moral duplicity of how parasitic the Republican Party is specifically to the poor. The Republican Party and MAGR are both specifically parasitic to the poor. It's punitive to the poor. And it's amazing to me that you have people in the Supreme Court. And when we look at the Roberts Court, we will look directly at Citizens United.

42:48The legal experts can weigh in on this. But in my opinion, Citizens United opened up the door for fascism. 50 years from now, when this is written, Citizens United under the Roberts court will be the first step that sped this up in such a cataclysmic way that I genuinely am very fearful. And I don't mean this to be hyperbolic. I'm genuinely very fearful about the midterms and them taking place. No. So I love the point about the country club Republicans being uncomfortable with some of the more transparently and explicitly maniacal aspects of what the Republican Party is doing. Because I actually think if you look at the cases where the chief justice has ruled against the Trump administration, the through line is basically lie better.

43:38Right. Like do a better job of concealing your animus. When he told the Trump administration during the first Trump term, you can't rescind the deferred action for childhood arrivals program. What he said was, look, in your memo doing this, you kind of didn't go through the motions and talk about some of the things you should have. When he rejected their efforts to add a citizenship question to the census, he said, look, the reason you came up with everybody knows that's a lie. Try to come up with something more plausible. So I completely agree that that is an important framework for understanding the relationship between the current Supreme Court and the Republican Party and Donald Trump.

44:19I am with you on Citizens United. I mean, if you think about lines in Supreme Court opinions that have aged the worst, I think the line in Citizens United about how unlimited corporate expenditures do not give rise to corruption or even the appearance of corruption. I mean, come the fuck on, guys. Right. Like we all saw what happened in the 2024 presidential election. Right. Yeah. I mean, just acting like it's not happening, particularly when you've got Clarence Thomas taking many hand over fist. I mean, like, please, Clarence Thomas, tell me about ethics. No, I know. And I do think back to this point, I do think that all of these Republicans agree with the cult and agree with the base.

45:04I think the problem they've had with Donald Trump is he's really white trash around it about it. They want him to be a little bit more civilized about it. They want him to be a little bit more polite about the racism and the grifting. They want to be a little less trashy, you know, turn off your online flea market. But they're 100 percent on board with everything in Project 2025 because the base of the Supreme Court are Christian nationalists. These are religious fanatic nuts that actively, I think, do not believe in a secular government. Well, I mean, if you look at the rulings from this past Supreme Court term, you know, whose interests did they cater to?

45:42Rich corporate interests. Right. You know, the Supreme Court made it easier for fuel producers to sue and for tobacco companies to pick where they file their cases. also the right-wing reactionary Christian theocratic elements of the Republican Party, allowing parents with religious objections to LGBT equality, the right to veto effectively what is taught in public schools, and the strong man who unites them all. Let me ask you about that. So the ruling about like, okay, in Oklahoma, we have a total Christian nationalist whack job. It's just, you've probably read all about their nuts. Anyway, so this new ruling that if I have a child and then they start teaching about something, you know, LGBTQ plus related that I can say, I don't want my child in this and I can pull them out.

46:27Can I also, because I'm an atheist, can I also say if you put the 10 commandments in the Trump Bible in the classroom, I want to pull my child out? You know, that would require the Supreme Court to adopt and adhere to a consistent legal rule when they have no interest in doing that. And in fact, Justice Alito wrote the opinion in the Mahmoud versus Taylor case, the opt-out of LGBT instruction case, in a way that I basically think is perfectly tailored to allow the court to only rule for the Christian, conservative, religious claims, not to anyone else. Because what he said is, well, the reason why this instruction is problematic is it's normative.

47:11So he has the opportunity to say, well, other kinds of instruction, other displays, not normative. Also, the only thing that is problematic is when something is an objective threat and a real danger to parents' ability to inculcate their children with the religious values they so want. And so that also leaves him an off-ramp to say, well, the mere display of the Ten Commandments, that's not an objective threat. That's not a real danger because I, Sam Alito, conclude it's not. And then he also says, like, my new special rule only applies when the burden imposed is of the same character as these other cases.

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51:56That's Chewy.com slash HATIT to save$20 on your first order with free shipping. Chewy.com slash had it. Minimum purchase required. New customers only. Terms and conditions apply. See site for complete details. Okay, let's start on our, I mean, world famous game. Had It or Hit It. I'm sure you're familiar with it. Oh my God. Welcome to Had It or Hit It. I would hit it. Had It. Had It. I hit it every day, sometimes twice a day. Leah, had it or hit it events starting after 6 p.m. Had it. I am early to bed, early to rise. I need my fucking beauty sleep, right? Like we are having to fight the patriarchy day in, day out, right?

52:45Like I don't have fucking time for an 8 p.m. dinner. Sorry. And I don't digest well that way. I can't sleep if I eat late. Like in Europe, if I eat late, I don't sleep as great. So I need to eat about 4 30 and then roll into bed about eight i'm just perfect i think we've got to normalize matinees yeah you know like we just we just went through the nba uh playoffs our team oklahoma city thunder won pumps and i were just we were like strung out crackheads these games started at 7 30 8 p.m and we felt like we had to go and so we were at all these home games and when they weren't home games were up you know the games are starting at eight we're not getting to bed till 11 30 or 12 and we were burning the midnight oil and we look like total crackheads that couldn't put together sentences on this podcast but by god it all paid off that's right because we are champs okay had it or hit it taylor swift opinions so hit it if it's a cool opinion right had it if it's some dudes sounding off on taylor swift i have had it with fucking men who aren't real fans giving me their takes about Taylor Swift's albums and her artistic choices.

53:54I'm not going to name names. I'm just going to note that on one particular podcast, one particular male host suggested Taylor Swift should have a child because that would open up an entire new window of creativity for her as if Taylor Swift has never had a fucking new idea without having a child. What a prick. Was that Charlie Kirk? No, it wasn't. I mean, that is just really unbelievable. And you know what I'm so, you know what I've had it with ladies? I've had it with men reducing women to breeding. So if we're, if you're a pumps his age, I'm a lot younger than she is. You get sent out to the pasture, like, Oh, you're a dried up old hack.

54:37And then if you're a younger lady, that's the post-menopausal female, right? Childless cat lady, childless cat ladies. If you're Taylor Swift and you haven't had children, then they demean you for that. Meanwhile, while she's made more money than all those fuckers put together and combined off of her own talent so i'm so tired of the patriarchy categorizing us based on where we are with breeding it's just so weird i don't think about them and mass their masturbation schedules and another thing i've had it with this group these republican men i've never seen so many people that allege to be straight that talk about gay sex this much i've never seen anything like it yeah it's a little creepy.

55:15I'm not going to lie. Also, they are obsessed with porn. So obsessed with porn. Because I think they probably watch it all the time. Well, there's no question. Ted Cruz on 9-11. On 9-11, you guys, this is real. He liked, he favorited a really raunchy porn video on Twitter on 9-11. How unpatriotic for lying Ted Cruz. And then you know what he did? The big Christian Ted Cruz. He blamed the whole thing on an intern. Of course he did. Of course. Of course. Knew that was coming. Okay. Had it or hit it, Alligator Alcatraz. Oh, I, had it does not begin to convey the depths of my outrage over this. First of all, calling it Alligator Alcatraz, Alcatraz was a prison, right?

56:07With a building where people went after criminal convictions. Alligator Alcatraz is this constructed place where people are going to be subjected to over 100 degree conditions, humidity off the charts, in which the government officials are celebrating the fact that they might be targeted and bitten by alligators. I mean, it is so appalling. Like the phrase alligator Alcatraz, I just think does not convey the depths of the depravity of what they are doing. I completely agree. But then I look at, OK, cruel and unusual punishment. This is a slam dunk for that. But then look who the Supreme Court is.

56:53I mean, I have a lot more faith in the lower courts than I do the higher court. Oh, yeah. The lower courts are still engaged in something we could recognize as law. Not so with the Supreme Court. That's bad. Oh, my God. That terrifies me. OK. Had it or hit it, Zoran Mamdani. Oh, hit it. Oh, my gosh. That guy, born communicator, camera ready, knows how to stick to a message. You know, I think about the Republican Party's threats to focus, you know, the issue and attention on him. And I'm like, how did that work out for you guys with Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? So, you know, he's their worst nightmare, Leah and Pumps, because they have propagandized the base to believe that all Muslims are into Sharia law and want to throw gay people off buildings and all women have to wear burqas and all of this, you know, crazy religious fanaticism that Pumps always points out, which is exactly the same thing that the Christian nationalists want.

57:55But he leaves no one behind. He marches with a trans pride flag at gay pride. He advocates for all affordability in workers. And most importantly, he really stands up against anti-Semitism and recognizes that it is an increasing problem and that he has to partner with Jewish people and Jewish people must partner with him to break through the barriers of bigotry. And so he breaks the stereotype of the boogeyman, the Muslim boogeyman that Fox Entertainment and other right wing propaganda channels have built and fed into this religious base that are so quick to think they're so elite because, you know, they're chosen by Jesus and blah, blah.

58:42I mean, you know the deal. So I love this guy. I mean, I'm all chips in. We're furiously trying to get a hold of him to get him on the pod. I mean, I might even have to fly to New York and do it in person. I mean, I'm going to be so starstruck. I just I think she is I mean, she is so in love with the whole idea of him, his political career, all of his attributes. Have you seen his wife? So there's have you seen that on Instagram? So, OK, if you see pictures of like Iran in like the early 70s, it was like the Paris of the Middle East. And they had it was a very liberal culture and, you know, this beautiful kind of Persian skin and kind of sexiness about them.

59:23Well, Zoran and his wife did like some photo shoots and like subways and stuff. And she is like drop dead gorge. Well, he's gorgeous. They are. Have you seen it, Leah? Yes, I have. I've seen some of the photos you're talking about. He's also just cool as fuck. Like if you've seen him dismount a bicycle. I don't know how he does it. And he raps. And he knows he understands the digital optics. And I think that like there's this there's this idea right now that Democrats, when you look at Schumer and some of these older Democrats that were kind of the old dinosaur party. And it's like we need young, hot people representing us that know how to play the social media game.

1:00:03Yeah. OK, let's move along. Had it or hit it? The P. Diddy verdict. Um, can I have it and hit it? I am grateful he was convicted on some accounts. I am sad he was let go on the more serious trafficking charges, you know, given the testimony of Cassie Ventura, among others. I have to share with you guys. So Don Lemon was he's a really good friend of ours. He does independent media as well. So he was going on vacation and he asked Pumps and I to sub in on his Don Lemon live show. Right. And so I did a couple of days and Pumps did a day where it's like Jennifer filling in for Don. So I'd worked with his producers to prepare a whole episode on alligator Alcatraz.

1:00:52And then when I log in, I log in about 15, 20 minutes early. They're like, hey listen we're gonna have to pivot the puff daddy version coming down the pipe yeah i knew nothing nothing i didn't follow a news story i knew baby oil and freak offs and i'd seen the video where that with the domestic abuse in the hallway those are that was my knowledge leah so remember like when you're younger and you're hungover and you should have studied because you have a lecture the next day but you don't because you were a bad girl and you go and you're just trying to fake it in class. That was me. Thank God they brought on as guests, like some, like some really, Katie Fang.

1:01:36And they brought on some lawyers where I could just ask kind of some layup questions, but I was totally like reaching through the whole thing. Okay. Leah, last one. Had it or hit it? The United States of America. So hit it. You know, I still have faith we can be better and get ourselves out of this mess and turn it into something even good or great. I hope you're right. I was one of those dumb people that had a huge optimistic turn on the court. Like they're going to rein in Donald Trump's power because they don't want to lose their own power. Even if it's self-serving, they're going to do the right thing.

1:02:13Now I realize they're not. So, and of course I'm in on the United States of America, but as constructed MAGAs America, I'm really out on that. Yeah, that's a fair, that's a fair take, Pumps. Leah, it's so nice to have somebody on here for Pumps that can match her intellect. Shut up. And her legal prowess. That's an insult. So I cannot thank you enough for coming on. Seriously, thank you for all the work you do and for educating our listeners. We have a very great, curious listener base that is dead set on staying engaged. And we try to entertain them some with petty grievances and also heavy grievances like the fuckery on the Supreme Court.

1:02:55So thank you so much, Leah Lippman. We hope to see you again soon. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. Bye. I mean, how does it feel to have somebody on the podcast as smart as you? Well, first of all, A, she's way, way smarter than me. That's a false equivalency. um but god i liked her i did too i like her a lot she would be a great professor like i had professors in law school that were so boring like watching paint dry would have been an upgrade and she is a great communicator she's cool she's cool she says the f-bomb which goes right to my soft spot it's our love language and yeah i mean she would make me want to get up and go to law school yeah and i just thought she had what was her point about it was about that this a lot of this being a backlash to feminism that she articulated so well.

1:03:43I just, I think, I don't know. I just, I really feel like on the right, they are platforming people, stupid people. And because it doesn't require in the age of smartphones where you don't have to think and the phone thinks for you and now the age of artificial intelligence, they platform stupid people and the public is just primed to just be intellectually lazy with them. And I like having more interesting guests that are more thought provoking because she's really, really sharp. And I want to go and follow up and Google some of the things that she was talking about. She makes me want to educate myself more.

1:04:21Yeah. I want to get her book. And also I just, I have a newsflash that honest to God, I really didn't think of until all of this started happening in our world. I just think there are a lot of people that are below average intelligence in the United States of America. Newsflash. Breaking news. Breaking news. Breaking news. Pumps. Yeah. I just I didn't realize there were so many. Breaking news. America is full of dipshits. Yeah. I just I mean they're on I guess they're just louder than I think I think they're intellectually lazy. I think that they've lived in communities that, you know, shun curiosity.

1:04:55This is the worldview. You can't think beyond this and they just accept it at a very young age that they're just going to be dipshits yeah i mean a brain is an organ that must be exercised some people's brain isn't as good as other people's i would agree so i mean i think some of these people like it's not a lack of intellectual curiosity they're just not very smart breaking news all right breaking news also to get our book life is a lazy susan of shit sandwiches look at that smile oh my gosh toothpaste it's Fanta White. I wonder if Kylie could put like it. Kylie, can you edit it and do like a ding with like a sparkle right there?

1:05:33Okay, here we go. No, put the sparkle on her teeth. She's doing that. Oh, yeah, do both. Okay, wait. I'm going to do a clean take for you. Please buy our book, Life is a Lazy Susan of Shit Sandwiches. And then you can put like glitter and then like a little sparkle here. Yeah, I want the sparkle on the teeth. Big smile. All right, guys. Do you think that will go viral? No. Probably not. Listen, pups tell them. We will see you next Tuesday and Thursday.

1:06:01I'll tell you what I've had it with. Let's hear it. I've had it with that. Listen up, patriots, gaytriots, and natriots. We have a new podcast that has dropped. It's called IHIP News. It's Monday through Friday, every day, 15 to 20 minute hot takes on the political landscape of the United States of America, always served with a side of petty grievances. We are on all the available platforms, Apple, Spotify, Google, whatever. You get your podcasts and YouTube. Please go rate, subscribe, and review so that we will chart upwards with America's greatest legal mind. Pumps, what does an eagle say? Caw-caw.

1:06:44A little bit more enthusiasm. Caw-caw. That's it. That's the patriotism that this country needs right there.