The Gospel According to Grifters

24:27John Fugelsang:But welcome. Exactly. All right, John. So we like to obviously shit talk. And so right out of the gates, we just want to ask you, what have you had it with?

24:36I've Had It:Oh, my God. Well, this book is about how I've had it with right wing Christians.

24:40John Fugelsang:Oh, God. Me too.

24:41I've Had It:Their movement has anything to do with the actual teachings of Jesus. The full title of my book is Separation of Church and Hate, A Sane Person's Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalist, Fascist, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds. Because, as you mentioned, I was raised by a couple of ex-clergy. I was taught to believe that Christianity was about the stuff, you know, Jesus talked about. Love, empathy, service to others, uplifting the less fortunate, fighting for the marginalized. Pay your taxes, welcome the stranger. Individuals and nations care for the poor, care for the sick. He commands it in Matthew 25.

25:15I've Had It:Don't execute people. don't trust people praying in public to be seen, all the stuff Jesus talks about. And a lot of us were raised believing it was a movement about empathy and love. And we grow up and it's become this right wing clique that's tax free and fights to persecute gay and trans people, fights to persecute migrants, fights to criminalize abortion, none of which are anything Jesus ever talked about. And we got a whole generation of people who were raised religious and now consider themselves spiritual. because they're turned off to the hypocrisy of mean, cruel, right-wing religious people.

25:51I've Had It:Kids aren't abandoning religion because of God or Jesus or Santa Claus or Noah's Ark. They're doing it because of these douchebags with a mouthful and a heart full of hate. And it's embarrassing. I got tired of seeing my parents' religion used as a cloaking device for all this mediocrity and cruelty. So I wrote a book for both atheists and believers about all the issues that divide us and how if you are arguing with a Christian fundamentalist or a nationalist, even if you're an atheist, Jesus is probably on your side. And it's all the arguments the right wing uses and why on policy after policy, they use this Jesus as a prop to get elected.

26:30I've Had It:They'll worship him, but they do not follow him. And if they're going to try and force their narrow right wing version of Christianity on all of us in our public schools and our airwaves, we're allowed to call them out for not really following Jesus. They're devoted to a lot of crap they pretend, he said, but the actual stuff he said, that they call woke. And I'm sick of it. And that's why Donald Trump is president. And so I wrote a whole book about it. And it's not about hate. It's about how to actually use humor, nonviolence, and the damn Bible. Because it's time to thump Bible thumpers with the Bible and take it back for the nice people.

27:04John Fugelsang:So are you a follower or an atheist?

27:07I've Had It:I am not an atheist. I do believe in God. I even identify with his moot swings. you know how could i not believe in god you gotta blame somebody am i right but uh you know i i used to when i was a kid brag about how christian i was and now uh i say i aspire to be a christian because um it ain't that easy jesus's whole movement is about humility and picking up your cross and alienating your society because you're going to fight so hard for the marginalized that's the whole message it's not about total right-wing domination of your school board

27:41John Fugelsang:I want to offer an alternative here. So I was raised by atheists in the buckle of the Bible belt, and I don't need a book full of contradictions to inform my sense to fight for the marginalized. You do not.

27:56I've Had It:You don't have to have.

27:59John Fugelsang:I feel like sometimes more than anything, when I talk to Christians, I have to have such a regressive conversation.

28:07I've Had It:I agree.

28:07John Fugelsang:They believe in this Iron Age thinking wherein the God of the Old Testament, I mean, that guy was a real freak.

28:15I've Had It:The fundamentalists believe this, yeah. The liberal and moderate Christians are just out there not being a dick to people. But the fundamentalists of all the world's religions believe in the angry alcoholic step God who hates you.

28:28I've Had It:Yeah, I'm sick of it, man. I'm so tired of it. And you're right. But you see, atheists are right. You don't need a book of rules to tell you to be a good person. But the reality is, this is our society. And the entire history of Christianity, since the Romans took it over, and it stopped being the brown-skinned Jewish carpenter's message of love and acceptance for the poor, and became an imperial religion that will dominate and slaughter people. But it's okay, because we'll force you to be Christian, and then you're saved. Let me ask you this. Go ahead, please.

28:59John Fugelsang:So you know how everybody, like all the Christian nationalists, their big thing is like, we're Judeo-Christian values, because they can't sell Israel under the bus. So it's always like Judeo-Christian values, Judeo-Christian values, we have to maintain them. And I'm like, that is such a bizarre thing to not evolve. Every other form of study evolves and changes and gets better. And so like, in my opinion, like the Ten Commandments, there's a lot more that can be added to that that don't involve God's ego. It feels like this desire to conserve this Iron Age mindset.

29:41I've Had It:That's authoritarianism.

29:43John Fugelsang:Right. That law and psychology and everything else we should have all passed. I think the same thing about the Constitution. You know, like we haven't amended it in a very long time. I think it's crazy that South Dakota has two senators and they have not very many people there. And then California has two senators. And so I just think that whenever we're trying to hold these rigid things in place, when we have evolved and we have more studies and data.

30:12I've Had It:But they're both the same. You know, the Electoral College and organized religion are both examples of how the minority controls the majority and uses sacred texts that can never be questioned to control the majority. It's the same thing. It's all authoritarianism, and it's all bullshit because it's all the opposite of the stuff Jesus talked about. They want to say Judeo-Christian values, not because they care about Jews. Half of these people are rapture files who want the tribulations to come where half the Jews will die and the other half will forcibly be made to convert. They love Jews that much.

30:42I've Had It:They don't care about that. And they say Judeo-Christian in many cases because they kind of prefer some of them Old Testament laws over all that love and acceptance of Jesus. These are the guys who quote Leviticus to justify cruelty to gay people, even though that's the book God gave the Hebrews when they were escaping bondage. Jesus brings a new covenant. You get to eat bacon now. You don't have to be mean to gay people. But again, they'll pick and choose the parts of the Bible they want to follow, which everyone does. but the fundamentalists do it to justify cruelty. And I got to remind them 10 times a day on my Sirius XM show, Leviticus 2010 commands you to stone adulterers to death.

31:20I've Had It:I'll let you work that out with Donald Trump. I'll let the secret service know you and your rocks are on your way. They don't believe it. They weaponize parts of books they don't believe in to hurt a minority that Jesus commands them to love.

31:34John Fugelsang:I completely agree. I was raised evangelical and I'll, Well, my, yeah, she made it out. I made it out.

31:42I've Had It:Right on.

31:43John Fugelsang:But I, what upsets me most from a personal level is the lack of empathy I see in family members. And, and when I say, what would Jesus do in this situation? And it's an immediate, oh, well, he'd be for this. And I'm just like, that's exactly opposite. So what do you attribute that to? And what is your response to that? trying to change it?

32:08I've Had It:I attribute that to two things. They don't read the Bible and they're counting on you not having read the Bible. And that's it. Because Jesus of the Bible was a peaceful, radical, nonviolent revolutionary, hung around with leprous hookers and crooks, never spoke English, was not American, was anti-wealth, anti-death penalty, anti-public prayer, Matthew 6, 5, but never anti-gay, never anti-abortion, never called poor people lazy, never fought for tax cuts for wealthy Nazarenes, never said torture is OK in some situations. He was a long haired, brown skinned. That's a revelation. Brown skinned, homeless, community organizing, unarmed, anti slut shaming, authority questioning, authority challenging Palestinian liberal Jew.

32:53I've Had It:But that's only if you believe what's really in the Bible. So anyone who's trying to link Donald Trump to Jesus, they haven't read the Jesus parts Because the only way you can follow both Trump and Jesus is if you haven't read either of their books. Those guys have nothing in common except they spent a lot of time around prostitutes and they both used ghostwriters. That's it.

33:11John Fugelsang:Let's talk about the part about Jesus speaking out against the accumulation of wealth, number one. And the second part of that is him speaking out against public religiosity. Because these are the two things that, as an atheist raised around this, I've never found anything about Christianity attractive. My mother made sure I wasn't indoctrinated, made sure my mind stayed open. And every Christian I met just further exacerbated my secularness. And the two things that all Christians that I've met that are Americans in this part of the country, we live in Oklahoma, seem to have in common is a worship of wealth and overt religiosity, public religiosity.

33:55John Fugelsang:It's very well known in Oklahoma or Texas when you meet somebody. Well, what church do you go to? They think it's their business. It's a very toxic culture where people don't mind their own business.

34:06I've Had It:Yeah, yeah. I grew up half Southern, half Brooklyn. and I'm very used to it as well. I'm a fan of the show, by the way, ladies. I'm a total fad boy for the two rock stars right now. It's really fun to be on here. You know, look, the Bible has a lot to say about poverty. It bluntly commands generosity and justice and compassion towards the poor, and it doesn't ask nicely. God commands lending to the poor without expecting repayment, without ever causing interest. It was causing interest, charging interest on the poor that made Jesus do the whole temple freak out. In Moses's law, You have to have a jubilee year every 50 years where all debts are forgiven to reset economic inequality.

34:45I've Had It:I mean, Jesus commands individuals and nations to care for the poor in Matthew 6, 5, and says that individuals and nations will be judged, heaven or hell, by how well they care for the poor and the sick and how well they welcome the stranger. And, you know, throughout, Jesus warns you about these people who pray in public to be seen. He's not against praying in church, but Matthew 6, 5, he warns you to not trust anybody who prays in public on the street corners so they can be looked at. I think about this whenever I see, you know, Mike Johnson on his knees in the well of the house. The guy could have gone into the back room and prayed with these other congressmen in private, tastefully, but they don't want that.

35:25I've Had It:They want to show off. They want public displays of piety. Jesus literally says in Matthew 6 that when you pray, go in private and pray to your father in secret. And that's what he says right before he teaches the words of the Our Father. They don't teach that in Christian school. And again, I think if you're opposing Christian nationalists, fall back on Jesus. That's it. Don't fight them. Make them argue with the Bible. Jesus and God command us to welcome the stranger. God commands us in the Old Testament to treat the alien as one of our own. And Christ says that nations will be judged, heaven or hell, by how they welcome the stranger.

36:02I've Had It:So when your Uncle Racist is over, just say to Uncle Racist, why should I listen to you and Donald Trump and ignore God and Jesus?

36:07John Fugelsang:This is why I think politicians like Andy Brashear of Kentucky or James Tallarico from Texas are going to have so much credibility reminding these rural and suburban religious folk what they're supposed to advocate for. And I think that they are such credible messengers. They're not going to listen to me. I'm a crazy atheist. They're not going to listen to me.

36:28I've Had It:I'm a comic.

36:29John Fugelsang:But those two messengers in the Democratic Party right now, I think, are some of our most important voices. And what impresses me so much about each of them is some Democrats, centrist Democrats, have flirted with throwing trans people under the bus.

36:44I've Had It:Oh, yes, they have.

36:45John Fugelsang:And neither Tallarico nor has Andy Brashear done that. In fact, they have said, my faith instructs me to accept them. My faith instructs me not to judge them. But I wanted to ask you this. So we had Charlie Kirk's funeral. And obviously everybody knows nobody likes gun violence. Most of all liberals were not into guns or gun violence.

37:08I've Had It:You like how they're blaming the woke gun control? You've never shot a gun in my life. I'd love to hear a Democrat point that out.

37:14John Fugelsang:Did you hear how they were signaling? I think that what a lot of these Republican Christian nationals politicians do, John, is they Christian signal. They say the Lord this or Jesus that. And the Christian signal so that they can disguise the fact that they're advocating for the accumulation of wealth and for fucking a lot of people over.

37:36I've Had It:Yeah.

37:36John Fugelsang:But at that funeral, I can't remember which speaker it was, but he was like, and the Lord put this person in this cabinet position. The Lord put this person in that cabinet position. And the Lord made sure the bullet missed Donald Trump's.

37:50I've Had It:Blaspheming, blaspheming, blaspheming.

37:52John Fugelsang:It's just, it's so funny.

37:53I've Had It:The Lord wanted that poor bastard behind Trump to catch a bullet in the head in front of his kids. That's what they're saying. The Lord wanted Cory Quimperator, whose name they've already forgotten. They can't remember that guy's name. Just like Benghazi, they forget the corpses when they're no longer useful. When anyone says that, they are saying God wanted that man to die in front of his kids so Trump could come here and rape USAID to kill thousands of kids overseas. That's the message they're giving. There is no right-wing Christian argument for any of this. And you're so right about the funeral.

38:26I've Had It:And you're so right about Tallarico. And I would also add Buttigieg and, of course, Reverend Senator Warnock to that list. They're really on it. You don't have to believe in the Bible as literal fact to call these people out on their crap. And atheists can do this. A lot of atheists who have family like this that they still love do this all the time. in the case of the transgender people i mean literally jesus's whole message is to uplift the less fortunate right that that you know however you're born it's not your fault and maybe you're born a certain way so god can reveal miracles through you i hate to get all conclave and shit but that's what's in the book so like real masculinity is not beating up on a powerless minority with a high suicide rate real masculinity is uplifting the marginalized and being strong for them, which is also a great feminine trait as well.

39:13I've Had It:But their whole deal is power. They don't give a rat's ass about the teachings of Jesus. They don't care about religious freedom. They don't care about Satan. They don't care about abortion. I'm talking to politicians now. They don't care about abortion. They don't care about illegal immigration. They care about power. That's it. That's the creed. If they wanted abortion to end, let's have more birth control. Let's have more sex ed. Let's drive the numbers. They don't want it. They want the controversy. You want border crossings to stop? Start locking up every white person who hires an illegal immigrant.

39:43I've Had It:White people put the help of wadded sign at our border. Start putting them in jail. We never do that because we need this workforce. So they're not serious about anything. They just want power. And Donald Trump seduced the right, not by promising to do anything Jesus did. You ever hear Donald Trump talk about, I'll help the poor like Jesus Khabib? You ever hear Turning Point USA talk about the importance of helping the poor? No, it's all about power. They don't care about Christ. They care about conservative Christian domination. That's their real religion. And so it's really easy to call them out because they're frauds.

40:19I've Had It:They don't use the book. And I wrote this book. So even if you don't believe in the Bible, you'll know on whatever topic, feminism, immigration, abortion, the exact lies they tell to assume this control over our culture. If more of us could call this BS out, they wouldn't have this as armor and you wouldn't be able to have this lecherous, adulterous stealing from vets with a fraud online university, having cops beaten for a lie on the Capitol steps, clown with all of his makeup, like an old tragic drag queen as president. He got it because our Christians don't give a rat's ass about what Christ said.

40:54I've Had It:But a lot of Christians do. And a lot of atheists are better Christians than the so-called Christians because they're fighting for the least of us.

41:01John Fugelsang:I agree with that. Have you been able to figure out when God and guns became synonymous? Yeah. Okay. I don't understand that.

41:11I've Had It:I do a whole chapter about this and about violence and about toxic masculinity and the ones who worship, you know, dude bro Jesus, the strapped, you know, alpha bros for Christ. It really, I think in the 1970s, it really began when guys like Jerry Falwell, before they had latched on to criminalizing abortion, which again, the Bible never forbids. But that's how they took over the party. And they began to associate gun ownership with good stewardship, with good citizenship, that it wasn't just a right, it was an obligation for good people to do. And I'm not against owning guns. I think most guns and ammunition should be free for American women and maybe for altar boys too.

41:51I've Had It:But what we've gotten instead is this corrosive culture where There's 110 guns for every 100 people in our country, and they are fighting very hard for mentally and emotionally unstable 20-something men to have easy access to products that are designed to kill lots of humans really fast. There's no Bible justification for any of this. when gun violence is the number one killer of children, more than car accidents or disease, and it's because the Christians won't allow an up or down vote without a filibuster on high-capacity magazines? I mean, why can't we tackle a guy when he has to reload after 10 shots?

42:30I've Had It:Why do civilians need to fire off 30 rounds without a break? The expanded background checks, that's more popular than Christmas. 90 % of us support that. We can't get an up or down vote because of the Christians. I don't want to hear from any of these guys that they're pro-life when they are fighting every day to make sure the next Salvador Ramos or Robin Westman or Dylan Roof or any one of these guys can easily get their hands on military hardware and slaughter American people. It's all a business. It's all about power. They are not practicing the rules of Christ. If you care about life, if you care about children, then you want to make it a little harder for an emotionally unstable 20-something white guy Because that's always who it is to easily massacre lots of Americans in a short amount of time.

43:16I've Had It:They're not pro-life. It's all power.

43:19John Fugelsang:It really is. It's so gross. So one thing we're really into that I'm really into right now is I have this hypothesis that in the MAGA movement, you have a bunch of emotionally stunted, broken people with inner child issues and a lot of suppressed sexuality. And we have some data coming in on this. We know that Grindr was overloaded during the RNC. We know that after Charlie Kirk's funeral, Grindr had a massive, massive usage strike. We know that podcasters, right-wing podcasters like Benny Johnson gets targeted ads for gay cruises while at the same time, you know, espousing, you know, Christ's kingdom and all this crazy bullshit, right?

44:02I've Had It:Homophobes like it both ways, don't they?

44:04John Fugelsang:Yeah. So I have this whole, like, I feel like there is a group of DL down low, DL demon queens in the MAGA movement, a lot of these men that I've identified as candidates. And this is just my opinion. This is my hypothesis. And I support it. I will never obey in advance and not talk about this.

44:25I've Had It:That's why your show is great. I endorse outing people who legislate against LGBTQ citizens, by the way. I do too. If you're an artist and you're, if you're an actor, you keep in a private fine. If you're a country singer, you know, keep it fine. But if you're actively making life harder for trans kids, fuck you, man. Let's get your name out there.

44:42John Fugelsang:I agree. If you're passively in the closet, that's your business. That's not my business. But Moses, Mike Johnson, um, who Jesus nevermind sexual sin.

44:52I've Had It:He minded hypocrisy. Exactly.

44:54John Fugelsang:Tell me about Mike Johnson, Moses, Mike Johnson, Moses, Mike Johnson. You know, he's the guy who said while there's cameras running, yeah, well, God, woke me up and he tapped me and he said, wake up little buddy, you're going to be Moses. Then poof, I'm speaker of the house. I mean, it's just delusional, right?

45:09I've Had It:Yeah.

45:09John Fugelsang:So he has, or a good

45:11I've Had It:liar or a guy who's just playing to simpletons.

45:14John Fugelsang:Yeah. I actually growing up in the Bible belt, I kind of think he legitimately thinks this. I have so many friends that have delusion about this stuff. They believe in spiritual warfare. My friends in high school, they really believe in this shit. Oh, yeah.

45:28I've Had It:Oh, they really believe that we have to arm ourselves and ignore everything Jesus said about nonviolence for Jesus. All power.

45:37John Fugelsang:Moses Mike, as I like to call him, he has all these pray the gay away camps. His wife has pray the gay away camps, the porn tracker with the sun, you know? And so, I mean, I just, if I had to bet my French bulldog's lives on it, I'm going Mike for sure. A hundred percent. Then we go on to J.D. Vance, who is a failed drag queen. We all have photographic evidence of that. As Pumps points out.

46:03I've Had It:That's something to drag queens, madam. I'll have you know that. I got to stand up for my people, too.

46:08John Fugelsang:And he changed his name three times as an adult, which that's really weird. But the biggest evidence I have for him, aside from the eyeliner and us being one new cycle away from a full blown smoky eye, is that you may remember back when he was calling Trump Hitler. I do. And talking about how dangerous Trump was. And he was kind of chubby and his hair was kind of messy, not dressed too cute. And then he goes off to Peter Till, who we all know is a sociopathic, antichrist gay man.

46:39I've Had It:But sexually very healthy and normal, Peter Till. Nothing weird about that. His hard drive must be clean. Don't worry.

46:45John Fugelsang:So he goes off to what I call Peter Till's gay camp. And then he pops back out and he looks like he got queer eyed. I mean, it's just and you can go down the list. Everybody knows Lindsey Graham is gay. So one of the things I've had it with is I've had it with the Republican Party acting like they don't have a bunch of gay men in their party.

47:10I've Had It:And I just forget Ken Millman, the RNC chair, was gay. And in the closet, everyone knew it. I totally remember him. And that was when they were in 2004, when they were using gay men.

47:20John Fugelsang:On the ballot.

47:21I've Had It:When George W. Bush had lied America into war. We had body bags coming home every day and it looked for sure. How can this guy get reelected? And Karl Rove made the entire reelection campaign about marriage is under attack. And Dick Cheney betrayed his daughter. Dick Cheney didn't give a damn about his daughter and sat by silently while they spread this. And it worked. Right. I was in shock when Trump won last year because 20 years ago we saw the example of a president who lies to Americans and Americans get killed and they reelect him anyway. right that's what happened in 04 with bush after the war that's what happened with trump after lying to everyone through covet but with the homophobia first off you know there's no part of the bible you can use to say that being gay is wrong let me say it again there is no part of the bible anyone can ever use to say that being gay is wrong because nobody follows leviticus nobody follows deuteronomy saint paul's not actually talking about gay people i point out in the book that Jesus does come out and say that gay men are born that way in Matthew 19.

48:21I've Had It:And I would argue, I go deep on it in the book, the famous story of the Roman centurion, when Jesus heals his sick slave and the apostles are all upset. Well, why would an occupying military officer seek out a local homeless Jewish mystic faith healer to come to his home to heal a common slave? What do we know about the Romans? They left their wives at home and they took special boys on the road. And in the original Greek, the word used was not slave. It was pais, beloved boy. So Jesus, who turns nobody away, you could argue credibly healed an occupying military officer's male lover. I bet the apostles were thrilled about this.

49:00I've Had It:Again, homophobia is incompatible with the Sermon on the Mount. Nobody follows Leviticus. You have to stone people to death for working on Saturday. If you, if you, fuck you, NASCAR, right? They don't believe it. And any politician who's telling you that being gay is a choice that must be resisted probably has some experience resisting it. And it's going to be a pleasure watching this last generation of closeted, shame-filled gay men die off in our lifetime because young people are not born programmed with this shame today.

49:28John Fugelsang:I'm sitting here thinking there are people in my life, maybe I could give their book and it would change. But then I think about how generational the indoctrination is. I mean, their grandparents, parents, you know, my parents. So what do you think a realistic, like somebody like me that wants to go and talk to somebody who is super like thinks like Jesus is the best thing and that they follow Jesus and they don't see the irony?

49:56I've Had It:Yeah, I wrote a book for you.

49:58John Fugelsang:It's a lot. So what do you think the realistic expectation on how you deal with this? Like if I just plop the book on her lap.

50:09I've Had It:No, no, I don't recommend that. My book is not. Well, my book is for people who have to deal with these people. Fundamentalists will not like this book. They will hate you for giving it to them. They will not read it. Maybe some will just to make a hateful review on Amazon, but they're not going to. Now, conservatives are another story. I'm not talking about the haters, just, you know, nice conservative people, right? Like conservative Christians, they're often more liberal with kindness than actual liberals. And so throughout my book, I'm like checking in with the conservatives, Christians and the atheists who are reading to make sure they're OK with all this Jesus laying on you.

50:40I've Had It:But here's what I found out. OK, you won't convince them. You probably won't be able to talk anybody out of the matrix. All that spiritual growth has to happen on your own. And Donald Trump's going to make it easy for a lot of them when this whole thing goes up in flames. But what I found is this. We can't hate these people. Right. For most of us, they're not nationalists or fanatics. There are relatives we still love, even if they're crazy, or our co-workers or that douchebag from high school who can't spell your, but we're still friends on Facebook. Right. Like so like what I find is if you engage these people on what the scriptures actually say, they won't agree with you, but they may appreciate you took the time to engage them on their own turf.

51:18I've Had It:And if you go back to the central values of what Christ was about, not conservative Christianity, but Christ in the book and the things that Christ demands. Look, Matthew 6, 5, he lays it out. Individuals and nations. Four criteria for heaven, not hell. Take care of the poor, take care of the sick, welcome the stranger, and be kind to those in prison. Nothing about screaming at women outside clinics. Nothing about hating the Muslims or believing in the talking snake or giving money to your church. It's those four criteria. And I find if you talk with them about what Christ actually says, don't fight.

51:52I've Had It:Just ask questions. You can build a bridge there. They'll appreciate it. And I just believe you get farther telling your uncle that Jesus wasn't an immigrant hating homophobe and showing him in the scripture, proving how Jesus was not an immigrant hating homophobe than if you just give him the finger and call your uncle an immigrant hating homophobe. Again, it's a guide for people who have to deal with these folks. Okay. And spiritual growth is not to be met with smug liberal. I told you so is, but we have to, we, we, we have to fight for them. We have to hope that they wake up out of the matrix, But we can't hate them, but we have to beat them.

52:27I've Had It:We have to beat them with nonviolence and democracy and humor. And we got to use scripture, too, because this is what they use as camouflage. The Democratic Party and the media are terrified. They will not touch religion. Y 'all know it. Very few will. So it's going to take regular folks over the dinner table, on social media, in the workplace to convince these people that hate is not a Christian value.

52:48John Fugelsang:I've been saying this when we started the podcast and for a very long time. America has a crazy Christian problem and the Democrats have to address it. The Republicans brought Christianity into, just like you said about Karl Rove, put it on the ballot. And Dick Cheney betrayed his daughter. And I remember that so well. I had the John Kerry sign in my yard, the whole nine. And I've been saying the Democrats have got to address it. They're the ones that brought it in. But I have to say, like, I do think having credible messengers like some of the Republicans we were talking about, but I also do think that the Democrats could run somebody super secular and maybe a bluer district to start the language that showing by example that, especially if they ran against a far right winger to say, look, I don't know where this person gets all this stuff, but they're supposed to be caring about the poor and they don't.

53:43John Fugelsang:We have to start drawing these comparisons, start contrasting, because Christian nationalism is so dangerous and it's been so detrimental to our state. We're ranked 50th in education. It's ranked 50th place in the whole United States for women to live. And what's so bizarre about this -

53:59I've Had It:Yeah, but you're fixing your Ryan Waters problem. Congratulations on that.

54:03John Fugelsang:Governor Stitt, he's this big Bible-thumping evangelical. When he won, he said, I want to dedicate every square inch of the state to Jesus. And since the dedication, he's eroded and harmed the neediest Oklahomans. And he's even refused school lunches, federal money for school lunches for children, just unrestrained cruelty that he gets away with because he Jesus signals and Christian signals. And so many people in rural Oklahoma, the only social structure they have is their church. That's all they have. They don't have anywhere else to go except for their church.

54:40I've Had It:And those churches are getting smaller and younger people are abandoning them because of this. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

54:46John Fugelsang:But these politicians have exploited them and weaponized their faith against them. And it's just it's so tragic to see how many people vote against their interests. I remember in 2004, my husband and I were driving to it. He's from a small town in Oklahoma. We were driving out there and we stopped this rural gas station and there was this woman. She had probably about five kids. Car was a total clunker. You could tell, I mean, this is well below the poverty line. Kids didn't have shoes on. And it was, I mean, you could tell she was struggling, this woman. She had all these kids and the car wasn't working well.

55:19John Fugelsang:And she had a Bush Cheney sticker on a car. Of course she did. And my husband was like, that is just fucking unbelievable.

55:26I've Had It:But that's how religion does it. That's authoritarian religion. And again, that is using fundamentalism, right? It's probably because of abortion. Abortion is how they've done it. For 45 years, two generations of Christians have been raised in a country where they vote against everything Jesus ever talked about to criminalize abortion, which Jesus never talked about. I have this conversation with our MAGA brothers and sisters all the time on my SiriusXM show. I always say, give me one teaching of Christ that Donald Trump or MAGA or the Republican Party have fought for in this century. Chapter and verse, please.

56:01I've Had It:One. I don't get real answers. I get abortion. and I explained the Bible's not against abortion. God asserts a fetus as property in Exodus 21 and that a woman's life has more value in his eye than a fetus. That's why Jews don't ban abortion. That's why abortion is legal and free in Israel right the fuck now. Jesus is against the death penalty, of course. Never mentioned abortion. They don't follow him. Second most common answer I get is, well, Trump has a strong border. And I'm like, no, God and Jesus command us to welcome the stranger. You guys call them illegals. You're the no room at the end Christians.

56:34I've Had It:You reject God and Jesus. You're not fans of the book. You found a new Messiah. He's a racist landlord from Queens. And the third answer I'll get, and this is true, I swear to God, Trump moved the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. And then I have to politely explain, at no point in the Gospels does Christ state an opinion on the United States or where their embassy should be in the year 33 AD. It doesn't come up. It's not there. They're making shit up. They reject what Jesus commanded. They'll fight like hell for stuff they think he talked about. And that is how the Republican Party, post-civil rights, has manipulated two generations of white people.

57:12I've Had It:And it's led us directly to Donald Trump. A bastardization of Christianity is how they suffer all these people by throwing out Jesus and replacing, criminalizing abortion.

57:21John Fugelsang:I would say the bastardization of Christianity plus the worship of unrestricted capitalism. Both of those things convening at the same time.

57:30I've Had It:That was 100 years ago, too. That's always. That's what Jesus is born about.

57:34John Fugelsang:Because so many Jesus people also, like they love supply side Jesus, you know, capitalist Jesus. Okay, John, I could talk to you about this forever.

57:41I've Had It:You guys are too much fun, man. I know. I'm going to bankrupt.

57:44John Fugelsang:I want to play a game with you. It's called Had It or Hit It. Oh, my God. Welcome to Had It or Hit It. I would hit it. Had it. Had it. I hit it every day, sometimes twice a day. John, Had It or Hit It, suburban parents.

57:59I've Had It:Let me just say, I grew up in the suburbs, all right? And I've had it with my suburban parent friends who keep calling me all the time, and my rural parent friends, just because I live in the city, and say, oh, don't you feel bad that your kid doesn't get nature? Anybody living in the city get this? Don't you feel like you're cheating your young by raising them in the city? There's no nature. Don't you wish your kid? Don't you feel like your child's going to never know nature? And I'm like, what are you talking about? New Yorkers are around more nature than anybody. You in your comfortable suburban house and you go into your garage and into your car and then you go to your job or your or your church or your school to avoid nature.

58:34I've Had It:You know what we do when it's one hundred nine degrees or minus nine degrees or when there's a high pollen count or a hurricane or a nor 'easter or a blizzard? we walk in it we make our kids walk in it my child gets so much nature my kid sees more dogs in a day than yours does in a month more rats in a day than yours does in a year and more roaches than you will see in a lifetime my we my kids we we have so much nature we walk down the sidewalk and see poop on the ground and we don't know what species left it that's how much nature we have we have so much nature it gets into our house so we have to hire exterminators to kill all the nature I was in Central Park with my kid and we saw two rats eating a bagel while a duck and a raccoon watched.

59:16I've Had It:Don't tell me about nature, suburban parents.

59:19John Fugelsang:All right. Had it or hid it, the R word.

59:23I've Had It:Oh, man. OK. So these adults over the age of 14 who use the R word, there's like levels of cowardice and punching down and being a pathetic beta male. And then there's this is why fucking Lenny Bruce died. So dude bros with a podcast could say retarded. Really? Wow. You free speech heroes. You I worked in special ed. OK, I paid my way through college doing special ed. And a lot of people in your show probably have folks who have developmental disabilities or developmental delays or whatever tasteful words we're using to describe people born differently in this decade. Right. These cowardly bitches who are coming out there saying retard retard retard retard, you know, making their friends laugh.

1:00:00I've Had It:And you see this in comedy clubs, too, like making fun of the homeless, right? Like punching down, punching down on developmentally disabled kids by using a slur. And here's the deal. None of these cowards would ever use that word if they were at the Special Olympics. They wouldn't say it at the Special Olympics because deep down they know it is a shitty, ableist, punk ass choice.

1:00:21John Fugelsang:No, I agree. When people you have this conversation a lot where when people use the N word in safe spaces where they know they can use it, but they wouldn't use it around a black person, that person knows they're fucking racist. We know a mutual racist. And she's like, no, this person doesn't think they're racist. I'm like, if they don't think it's racist, they would say it in front of black people. This person knows for sure that she's a racist. If you can discern when and where to use it, you know, it's wrong. In my opinion, we have to hold them accountable. Correct.

1:00:55I've Had It:And I'll fight. I'll fight for their right to say it. I'm not a fan of censorship. You know, go ahead and say it. White people want to say the N word in public. You all go right ahead. The market will decide. That's all I can say. But but yeah, I mean, it's just punching down, man. It's really lame. And I'm trying to make a list of all the great men in history who use the word retarded as a slur. And so far, I'm stuck on number one. It's just punk ass bitch behavior, man. Just be better, guys.

1:01:19John Fugelsang:Yeah. OK. Had it or hit it. Tylenol.

1:01:25I've Had It:I don't even know. I mean, I know I've I've I'll hit Tylenol because I've had it and I didn't I didn't give birth to anything wrong. My God, they really this is how bad they want to distract from covering up child rape and sex trafficking. That's all I can say, man. RFK is out there talking about health and he's breathing and sounds like Darth Vader's sleep apnea machine. I mean, my God, you know, it's not easy to make Dr. Oz look embarrassed. But the other day, Dr. Oz looked as embarrassed as I look that time I had to interview Dr. Oz on TV. I mean, they're going after Tylenol. How much do these guys hate pregnant women exactly?

1:01:58John Fugelsang:And I think it's so sad for people with autism. The unspoken thing that's going on right here is a lot of MAGA parents, liberal parents, apolitical parents have kids that have autism. This administration is actively demonizing this, that something that has to be prevented and something that they want to make a registry for. And that's the underreported part of this.

1:02:22I've Had It:We're going to make you extinct.

1:02:23John Fugelsang:We're dehumanizing people that have autism right now. The government is.

1:02:28I've Had It:They are. We found the cure to you. And again, these godless motherfuckers lied about it being vaccines for so long because they punched down. But this statement about Tylenol, it wasn't just deeply insulting to pregnant women around the world. It was profoundly insulting to autistic kids, autistic teens, autistic parents, everybody out there who's getting great grades in school or working and paying the rent and being functioning members of society, but they're different. And we know that fundamentalists are afraid of things they don't understand. It was a gigantic fuck you to say that all the autistic Americans that something's wrong with you, but we think we found the cure.

1:03:04I've Had It:We can't fix you, but we'll fix others coming before. And again, man, it's just like, it's all to distract from child rape. You will not hear them talk about Tylenol again. They will not try to ban Tylenol for pregnant women. This guy's programming a reality show. And if we're talking about whatever stupid fucking thing he said yesterday we're not talking about the epstein tapes that's

1:03:23John Fugelsang:all it's about tylenol is going nowhere i was just gonna say and of all the drugs i mean tylenol is the one everybody wants the least like if you hurt yourself i mean it's like if i like sprain my ankle or am i at the gym and i'm like god it's a girlfriend i'll be like hey bring me an aspirin or whatever and she brings the tylenol i'm like i don't even know if i'm gonna swallow it i mean It's just so much work. So I'm just like all the things.

1:03:49I've Had It:And again, as I'm sure your listeners know, I mean, Advil was created in 1955. Autism was first diagnosed and separated from schizophrenia in 1911. Yeah. I mean, these guys are idiots and they can't do.

1:04:01John Fugelsang:And it's cruel that the conversations to all of our listeners that either, you know, have autism or have family members or loved ones. That's the unspoken thing that I want to give you guys a shout out because that's the cruelty of this administration. All right. Right. Had it or hid it. This is the last one. Had it or hid it. Church camp.

1:04:19I've Had It:Church camp. You know, I want to give you a decisive answer on it, but I can't. I've never been to church camp. My parents didn't want me going to stuff like that. My parents were big on Gandhi and Dorothy Day and Dr. King, not so much, you know, being told that Jesus likes you better because you put a tree up in your house once a year. So I hesitate because I'm sure there's a lot of great church camps out there that aren't shitty. So I'll, I'll say, uh, I'll say I'll, I'll hit it.

1:04:45John Fugelsang:Um, I have an alternate. So I don't want to judge.

1:04:48I've Had It:I don't want to judge large groups of people. I know nothing about that's how, you know, I don't vote for Trump.

1:04:52John Fugelsang:Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. There's a lot of church camp stuff in Oklahoma. And there, of course, whenever you have religious organizations and children, you know, what actually at what, what happens? It's the fuckery.

1:05:05I've Had It:You're talking to a Catholic. You're talking to a Catholic. That vow of celibacy, let me tell you, the first pope, St. Peter, was married. All the priests and popes and bishops could marry for over a thousand years. Really? Pope Innocent II made celibacy the law at 1139 AD, not because sex was bad, not because Christ was a bachelor. The church didn't want priests leaving land and wealth to their kids. It's all about greed. couples taking marital advice from men in dresses is not based on anything that jesus ever talked

1:05:36John Fugelsang:about that's interesting john i think you're i think you're such an important messenger right now i want all of our listeners to go get your book separation of church and hate i myself am going to get it i am too i'm excited because i just hit we just hit the new york times bestseller

1:05:52I've Had It:list for the second time congratulations and we're number eight on amazon today i'm coming for you, Kamala. I'm coming to you. I'm stepping behind you, Kamala. I'd love to send you guys copies of the book because I am a fan of the show. I subscribe and I love what y 'all do.

1:06:04John Fugelsang:I love it. Okay. Well, thank you so much. I love that there's a place for me to align with radical, caring Christians because in the Bible belt, I've always been like the Satan atheist, even though I think I'm a much better Christian than all of my Christian friends.

1:06:22I've Had It:Some of the best Christians I've ever known have been atheists and some of the most godless heathens have been pious, loud believers. You're in good company. And I'd love to have you guys come on the SiriusXM show some evening to talk about the very fine work y 'all do. I consider this to be a ministry. You guys are so funny and so tight and you keep it so balanced between politics and culture. It's really, really, I just admire how you structure the whole show.

1:06:45John Fugelsang:Thank you. That's such high praise. Yes. All right. Well, have a great day with all of the nature surrounding you in New York City. And now we would happily come on your show and this was just such a joy.

1:06:55I've Had It:some right now. Thank you. And peace to your listeners. Peace.

1:06:58John Fugelsang:Bye. Well, he's just as sharp as a tag. God, I love him. And you know, what's so funny is he knows more Bible verses and application than 90 % of the people in Bible study. There's no question. And I've done the field research on that. I know, including myself who was in it. I mean, he's very smart. And I think that he's onto something that you and I have been talking about. And it's, we have to address the crazy Christian problem. Absolutely. It has got to be addressed because now they're, they're mainstreaming it. I mean, these, I mean, that Charlie Kirk funeral was the most terrifying thing I've ever seen to see all of the entire president's cabinet engaging and all of that spiritual warfare talk.

1:07:39John Fugelsang:Oh yeah. I mean, Paula White's at the White House selling, you know, blessings or whatever for a thousand dollars. It, it, the grift and how many, like in the White House above the Oval Office, that's how separation of church and state we are. Okay, listen, John has a top selling book that's on the list. Ours is not on the list because we've done the math on it. And we have a lot of subscribers, both audio and YouTube. And the sales are good, but we want to be on that fucking list. Or get banned. Yeah, or we want our book to be banned by the Trump administration. So please, listeners, go to the, click the link in bio, buy John's book, but also buy your mama's book.

1:08:18John Fugelsang:All right? Life is a lazy Susan of shit sandwiches. Pumps, tell them. We will see you next Tuesday and Thursday.

1:08:26John Fugelsang:I'll tell you what I've had it with. Let's hear it. I've had it with that. Listen up, patriots, gaytriots, and natriots. We have a new podcast that has dropped. It's called IHIP News. It's Monday through Friday, every day, 15 to 20-minute hot takes on the political landscape of the United States of America always served with a side of petty grievances. We are on all the available platforms, Apple, Spotify, Google, whatever you get your podcast and YouTube. Please go rate, subscribe and review so that we will chart upwards with America's greatest legal mind. Pumps, what does an eagle say? Caw-caw!

1:09:08John Fugelsang:A little bit more enthusiasm. Caw-caw! That's it. That's the patriotism that this country needs right there.

1:09:22Thank you.