Two Pump Trump

32:52Quiet piggy. I would not have been able to handle it. I don't have the control. I would have been like, what the fuck did you just say to me? Like, excuse me? And I would have made a bigger deal out of it. I was sort of surprised that none of the other reporters said something. Agreed. I'm not surprised actually having been in those things is everybody's sort of jostling for position and they don't want to make trouble because they do get kicked out, right? They do get kicked out or they get removed because these people are particularly, you know, thin-skinned, you know, essentially thin-skinned people.

33:25And so I would have been like, excuse me, what did you just say to me? Can you repeat that? I would have made them repeat it several times to create a viral situation to make it even worse. And, you know, and I would say, you know, sometimes with men, you know, you know how men neg women? like one of the tactics I have as an interviewer or to get people, especially ones that I think are going to be a problem is to make them uncomfortable. And men are very easy. Women are much harder to do that with. And so often, for example, I'll say, you know, before an interview, I'll go, did you lose weight?

33:59And they'll be like, oh, and I go, no, I guess not. And they go like this. I go, no, I'm sorry. I was looking at the wrong way, but like it works really well. One time with Barack Obama, I shouldn't have done this, but I did it. I did it anyway. We were doing an interview and they cut my time by 10 minutes. And I have very structured. I mean, I spent a lot of time figuring out how I'm going to interview people. And they cut 10 minutes to give it to some MTV DJ or VJ. I was like, are you kidding? I'm like, fine if you want to do those things, but I'm kind of pissed. And so we sat down and it's a very formal thing when you're sitting with the president, they have the water covered, you know, everything is very, it's like a ballet almost.

34:42And so he sits down and I lean into him and I go, listen, they cut 10 minutes from my thing. And so that's kind of a pain in the ass for me, but I'll cope with it. But the fact of the matter is you talk too much and you talk to paragraphs and you don't listen to the question. And so I'm going to interrupt you. And I know you've been president for six years and everyone gets to hear you yammer on all the time and you're not used to people interrupting you. so but you better get used to it because i'm going to really interrupt you and you'll think it's rude because you're not used to it but you do talk too much and uh and he looks at me and goes i heard you were obnoxious i go i am and then we went on and then he did very pithy answers because he was like he didn't want to be that guy kind of thing so little carrie you just proved something that pamps and i have said for a very long time lesbians need to be in charge of everything everything the there when you when you really start an attitude you can have a lesbian attitude yeah i yeah totally yeah lesbian energy needs to run the country because it's tough and it has a energy that the democrats need but it also has a maternal energy without it being toxic and codependent right the maternal energy of a lesbian has more accountability in it it's more pragmatic love than toxic love.

36:02I think men, I think lesbians should raise all the men. I mean, I think my sons are fantastic. They're manly and sensitive at the same time. Um, and they're really nice boyfriends. Like they have really nice girlfriends. And, um, I joke about that, but I think one of the things it is true. I tend to get along with men better than people asked had being a lesbian hurt me as a reporter. I was like, actually it's helped me in the area I'm in because men do want to get along with women, right? They kind of do. I don't think anybody likes sort of the binary that we've created between men and women.

36:33And it's sort of like one is up and one is down. Nobody's comfortable with that, I think. And I think one of the things is men really want to get along with women. And in my case, there's no stakes, right? There's no emotional stakes. I don't want to sleep with them. There's no possibility that it could work. I mean, some tried but not very many um but it it creates a much more comfortable relationship except when they think i'm a guy which is also uncomfortable like oh yeah yeah you know like hey the locker room talk well i've actually experienced that i was at a party and all these vcs who are like you know they've got the emotional range of a 12 year old um and they're like they're like look Look at that woman, Kara, what do you think?

37:18And I was like, still a feminist, still a feminist. And she was good looking. They were correct. That is correct. But I didn't want to play their dumb man game with them, which is so juvenile anyway. So it's more juvenile. All right. Kara Swisher, what have you had it with? What have I had it with? Oh my God, I sent you a list now. Okay. I know the one thing that I just, I may be different than what you guys said, but I decided these tech men especially, but a lot of men just talk too much. You know how they say women talk too much? I was watching this Jensen Wong, who's the head of NVIDIA at a very good quarter.

37:53And he was at this weird Saudi thing that Trump put together after he finished blowing the MBS all day and night. And he was with Elon Musk and they were just going back and forth like, hey, Lillard Carter. It felt like Beavis and Butthead in a lot of ways. And I happen to like Jensen Wong, not Elon so much, but I was like, can you stop talking? Stop making speeches. They love the stage now in a way that's really... We only used to have one of those business people like Lee Iacocca, and that was fine. Now every business person, whether it's Bill Ackman and his insane rants about things he doesn't know about, or they all need to...

38:35I've had it with them talking. I was like, you need to shush up and smile some more. That's what I would like from you ladies. You know what I mean? I feel like the Trump administration and its attack on expertise has promoted billionaires as the experts on everything. And we've given, like Joe Rogan will sit down with Musk and I'm just shocked at how much deference Elon Musk has given. Yeah. But also he never stops talking. I was like, stop talking. Yeah. Now, as it pertains, do you know Elon Musk, right? I did. I haven't talked to him in years, but after he called me an asshole, but that's a different story.

39:16Oh, that's a badge of honor. I actually interviewed him more than anybody, probably eight or 10 major interviews early on when he was actually not crazy. And have you seen this, you know, just from our bird's eye view? I mean, it's obvious to me that he is an untreated drug addict. And I know a lot about addiction because my husband's in recovery. I've been to rehab a few times. I've been to family weeks, et cetera. So that's abundantly obvious to me. Yes, it's been written about. The Wall Street Journal did a long story. A lot of people. I mean, he obviously, and he's talked to me about ketamine use.

39:47And he likes ketamine and other substances. You know, even if he denies them, it's been well reported. Yes. I think what's so interesting to me about this group of billionaires is how, what a walking, talking advertisement they are against being a billionaire. Yes. Because if you're a billionaire, not all, but the ones that are choosing to bend the knee to Trump and to platform themselves and pair themselves with this man. Yeah. When, when you're younger and you think if I win the lottery, I'm going to do this, this, this, you think about having fuck you money. And then you see these guys that have all this fuck you money, and then they have to humiliate themselves and make up trophies.

40:28Prostrate themselves, like bringing them a statue. To me, the photo was Elon Musk, New Year's Eve at Mar-a-Lago dancing to YMCA. I just was like, I was like, I am having a good time. I have good money. I'm having a day. If I was that rich, the things I would do with the money, like I always joke. I'm like, I buy France and then give everyone a glass of wine. Like, I don't know, like something fun. Like you're the world's richest man and you choose to be doing this at Mar-a-Lago with this asshole. Like I just, like how interesting could Trump be like for that much time? I don't think he's uninteresting by the way, but this is where the richest man in the world decides to place himself.

41:07That to me is pathetic actually more than anything. So. Pops. Well, what else is pathetic about the whole thing is Elon Musk is going around saying he's going to do all this doge stuff, waste, fraud, and abuse, yet he's not a forensic accounting expert. And that goes all through me about this whole waste fraud. Well, that's the same thing of talking too much as being an expert on things you're not an expert on, right? I mean, he's concerned about the deficit as we all should be, but instead of us going, well, let's let some experts figure this out and let's actually have some real political commitment to doing it.

41:46he's like, I think I'll just cut what I feel like. Cause I know better. I I'm smarter than you are on everything, like including pregnancy, including on whatever the topic happens to be. Birth rates. Don't you think, don't you guys think this is a symptom of American culture though, where we have worshiped money and we have given the affirmative actress, uh, the affirmative action of expertise to these billionaires. And now it's all culminated, like starting with the Reagan era, we really started worshiping capitalism, the fuck you money of the 80s. And we as a culture have bred these people and now they act out in public ways with breathtaking impunity that they think, look, I have what everybody else wants.

42:32And I have, I'm the expert on everything. And there's this worship and celebration of these horrible people, because as a society, we have valued money more than the well-being of our citizens for a very for several decades not just decades it's sort of the american way because what happens is these people are people who are poor are aspirational to this right i can yes he can do it i can do it i think what's changed is through social media and their direct like before i used to interview them all and that's how they got to people essentially but most of them were quiet right you didn't like Like Steve Jobs picked moments when he wanted to be public and then he really wasn't.

43:11And when he wanted to sell a phone, really, pretty much. And he was a master manipulator of media and stuff like that. But it was in a, I'm selling a phone here, kids. Like it wasn't to do anything else. It wasn't to pontificate on all manner of things. And I think what happened is because you're good at one thing, making money, you think you're good at everything else, right? And that we should listen to you over these things. I think the jig is up, frankly. I think people are like, shut the fuck up. It's a real eat the rich moment. It is. I think, you know, Scott and I talked about it today on Pivot.

43:44Like, something's happened, which is like, you need to tone it. You need to quiet down, you know, that kind of thing. And especially when they're causing incredible damage to things. Like one of my other had it is these chatbots for kids. Like, no, none. This may not happen. And like OpenAI did a deal with Mattel for AI and toys. No, you know, these kids are killing themselves when they have these relationships. Not every one of them, but there's enough of them that it starts to be a real problem. And so like, that's the kind, they don't want to take responsibility for the damage they cause. They only want to be celebrated for the things and be thanked for the things they make, which is off the back of stuff that taxpayers paid for the internet, right?

44:28Like we paid for a lot of the things there or universities to do research. All this stuff is because of the generosity of the American taxpayer. And instead they're like, look what we did with ours. And I was like, you did it with our, like, I don't know. I just feel like people have had it with them. I do think that's the case. Let's talk about the psychology of certain Trumpers like Peter Thiel and Barry Weiss, who are gay. And as two women who lived in a Christian nationalist state that was far MAGA before Trump descended from the elevator, we lived in a MAGA style Christian nationalist regime.

45:06I've always known very intimately what the Christian nationalists at the Heritage Foundation and the darker forces behind Donald Trump, I've always known what they want. And that at some point they may use a lesbian here a gay man here clarence thomas a black justice here but i know i know what their end game is that the knives will be turned on them and i find it really fascinating that peter teals the scott bessons and the barry weiss of it all when just this year kara there have been 600 anti-lgbtq plus pieces of legislation just in this calendar year yes i'm aware how exclusive and exceptional they must think they're magic homosexuals to somehow be exempt.

45:52They do think that. They do think that. I mean, it's really interesting. You could make one argument. There's the Walt Whitman quote, we contain multitudes, right? Not every gay is the same, just the way not every... I've always experienced very conservative gay men. Peter Thiel is nothing new to me. If you live in San Francisco, there's a whole... You think it's all Free Love and Castro where I have a house, but it's not. There's actually a very conservative group among gay people and including going back to AIDS. There are a lot of people who are mad at ACT UP. The reason things change is because of ACT UP, as annoying as they could be sometimes.

46:30And the others were like, let's just be quiet and not say anything and just fit in kind of stuff. So that's not a new and fresh thing among gay people. I do think that there is an increasing number of gay people who are not identified. Gay is not the identity, the most important identity. It is wealth or status or power. Right. And so I agree with you the minute I'm like, they'll throw you right under the bus as soon as they need it, especially the religious ones. What a luxury for Barry Weiss and Peter Till for gay not to be the strongest thing that identifies them because 20 years ago, it would have been.

47:09Absolutely. It's just like Pam Bondi and Caroline Levitt that ride the coattails of all of the women, the suffragettes and all of the people who fought so hard for the three of us to be on the screen and then get to, you know, the levers of power and just the ignorance to not think at some point those knives are going to be turned at you yourself. Well, they don't think that. I think they think that they're part of the scheme, like part of the power scheme. I mean, I'm a student of history. Do you remember Ernst Röhm from the Nazi era? You don't. He was the head of their brown... They were the thugs, and there was a whole group of gay guys, essentially, that did all the beating up for Hitler.

47:51And the minute he needed to, he killed them all in this night of long knives. It became a problem, their behaviors. And so he killed them immediately, even though he used them to get to power. I just don't, you know, in the case of Trump, he'd use anybody. I don't think he has a particular agenda. Like, you know, I think if he felt being a Democrat would work, he'd do it. He has no power, right? I don't know. I just, same things with the, I always joke, these tech guys, if Kamala Harris had won, they'd all be they-thems and drinking kombucha. That would work. Totally. You know, I don't think they have any values, which is sort of more dangerous.

48:26And I think that's what these people are the same way. You know, that one speech that I think Barry Weiss gave where she said, a lot of people here, we disagree about gay things, obviously, but we all want lower taxes. And I was like, what? Like, hey, like, oh, come on. Like, don't give it up so easily. Right. Don't give up. to me, the power is in declaring you're gay and, and forcing people to accept it and be part of, you know, to understanding it versus, you know, well, we got something in common money. Like it's kind of, it's grotesque and I find it grotesque, but I don't expect all gay people to be progressive.

49:04I just don't, I just don't. And, and I, and that is a good thing that identity isn't just woman, gay, black, whatever. I mean, that's kind of a positive thing, but you're right. The people you're talking about, I've always thought when gay marriage got passed and everyone was really happy. I remember when Gavin Newsom actually was the first to really step out as a leader and do that in San Francisco. And I thought, oh, the backlash now, because this is something that really is at the heart. I mean, the trans stuff, They hate trans people, that's for sure. But what they really hate is gay marriage.

49:40And they want to claw that back. That's my feeling. And since the beginning. Right. It's always been on the agenda. Dick Cheney's recent passing, when he died, it reminded me of not only the WMDs and the lies, because I was just I was so upset when George W. Bush was president. But one of the things that struck me about Dick Cheney that I just will never forget is he and Karl Rove and George W. Bush put on the ballot to drive out evangelicals, gay marriage estate questions so that they could win. while the entire time he had a lesbian daughter. Yeah. That type of, I'm not going to stand up for my family members.

50:23I remember being so mortified by it back in the day. I agree. He changed, let's be clear. Look, Barack Obama was like, and Hillary Clinton were like, no gay marriage for a long time. No one, they didn't, of course, do legislation, anti-gay legislation. But one of the things I was thinking about lately is, I'm trying to grok this Marjorie Taylor Greene shift, which is, I don't know if I trust it, right? None of us are like, there's still a lizard in there. You know, there's still like, you know how the right wing thinks there's Hillary Clinton's a lizard person. They do. They actually, I've gotten so many emails on that, but I don't trust it, but I'm sort of like, I think we should be able to accept.

51:04I think one of the things the left does too much is like, no, like you were mean 10 years ago and you can't be. So in the case of Dick Cheney, and I know a little bit about this, I think the whole family change, including Liz Cheney, like, and felt regret for doing that. Right. And even though it was super damaging, and I would agree, I think it was grotesque, sort of Karl Rove, the same thing. Allowing people to shift is probably the better thing, you know, in the we contain multitudes. Let's have different people. I agree, but I want to say something about Liz Cheney that I think is super important that the Democratic Party has never said because we're so thirsty for an approval from a WASP type person that we just grab it.

51:50Liz Cheney participated in what I call the original big lie, not the 2020 election, which is the lie that physicians after babies are born participate in what are called fourth term abortions. And this lie is so insidious and so dangerous that in our home state of Oklahoma, you have a total abortion ban because a large percentage of the population believe this lie. They're pulling a baby out and killing it. And Liz Cheney said this a couple of years on tape at a press conference before she joined the January 6th committee. So there is a lot of incubating that the Cheney family and Cheney-like Republicans do to set the psychological soil with all of this conspiracy and all of this fear-mongering for fascism to take place.

52:43But I do agree with you on this. With the Marjorie Taylor Greene's, I mean, I have her on a watch. I think she's a lot more politically savvy than I ever imagined. I have her on a watch. She's on my watch list. But we are going to have a lot of people because when Trump governs, his poll numbers always go down. People like him when he campaigns, they hate him when he governs. And he's like Michael Corleone of corruption and then Fredo when he governs. But go ahead. Yeah. So he's face planning and there's going to be a lot of people that are embarrassed and they're going to be like, well, I voted for him because I like the policy and blah, blah, blah.

53:21and exactly and you know the thing is we can't really worry about that i think what we need to worry about is why don't the democrats have a 50 state strategy anymore why has oklahoma been completely abandoned when in 2011 2012 we had a two-term democratic governor and our education was ranking from 14th to 17th when we had democratic leadership now it's 50th why have the democrats pulled out of all of these places or laura kelly in kansas she's a really interesting person that doesn't get enough attention um do you know her laura kelly i mean i don't know her she's governor of kansas she's a democrat and i saw her speak and she it was so interesting because she's so appealing she's beloved in that state like she does really well and she's a democrat i wouldn't say she was conservative democrat either i think she's quite i would say progressive on many issues and one of the things she did when i saw her and i'm eager to talked to her is, someone said, how did you manage campaign?

54:20And she goes, you know, I like the color red. So I put red on my signs. I don't care if it's Republican. I like it. I like red. And I didn't put Democrat. I said, I'm here to help you. Like, I'm here to help you. And this is the way I'm going to do it through progressive, like people first kind of things. And with green, here's what I would like with green. And again, some of the speeches she gives, I'm like, whoa lady what happened to you like yeah i i joke i was jokingly say three ghosts a visitor recently on an evening like you know shit you know suddenly where's the christmas turkey like boy christmas day merry christmas um but uh one of the things that i would like people to do if i got an opportunity to interview her i'd be like okay love you on the affordability love you on the epstein stuff actually she just did a really smart thing around ai and states abilities to I knew she'd fight with Trump about that.

55:10I'd like to go, okay, let's go over some other things. Trans. Exactly. Let's make sure we know exactly, like, let's do trans. Let's do immigrants. I think immigrant children. She's very, she is creating an argument that's going to really hit hard and fly over states. And the Democrats are getting outflanked by her on this issue. And there's a whole nother conversation we can say beyond this, but living in a red state for 50 years, I can tell you, this is going to hit hard. And she says, why are we giving a blank check to Israel to kill babies and to kill Christians and they get free healthcare and they get free college and we pay for it.

55:51If you're on an algorithm where you see cats, big titties, Marjorie Taylor Greene say that, and then a vacation home, and you only see that you're going to go, oh, well, she's not so crazy anymore. And also Trump has proven the electorate is okay. If you say crazy shit and do crazy shit in your past, they're okay with that. And so Marjorie Taylor Greene pretends now that she, or maybe it's real, that she cares passionately about Palestinian children. And I'm with you. I would say, okay, what about trans children? Because trans children in our home state right now are having to move. A lot of them don't have money because they've done a total transgender care.

56:30You can't go see a therapist. You can't go to a doctor, nothing in Oklahoma. And it's a really devastating. It is. That's what I want to know. I was like, where are the energy? Let's ask her about the other things that we can see that she's still the same. Like, like, what is she changed? If she's changed correctly, she actually did a very good apology about her toxicity. Like she was very toxic. And that was a, I would say that was an excellent apology, but I'm like, okay, then what about this? What about this? And I think people should hold her to a, even though, you know, we kind of are like, oh, she's against Trump.

57:01Let's bring her in. And I do think, you know, when George Conway changed or Liz Cheney did go out on a limb, she lost her entire career. Like she did. She paid the price. We still have to quiz them on the other things. And at the same time, be able to say, one of my theories around Democrats, everyone's like, oh, the progressives are taking over. Oh, the centrists are too centrists. Like, let's just be, we're different everywhere. We don't have to tell you what we are. You know, we, some of us want this, some of us want that. And again, this, we contain multitudes idea. Like we're different. We're just different.

57:34And we're, if we want Mondani in New York, Mondani in New York, or do we, and we want Abby Spanberger in Virginia, it's fine. Like there's no, there's no dichotomy. We don't have to make it. Everything is so binary now. I think it should be, we want to win. We want to win. That's right. We want to win. That's the way Republicans are. Yeah. We want to win. We want to win. If we have to run a centrist in Virginia and a democratic socialist in New York. That's what those voters want. And to me, one of the things that drove me crazy about the Democratic Party was when they wouldn't support Mamdani.

58:04I was like, you tell young voters to vote, and then they vote, and then you tell them to vote is shit. Yeah. Like, fuck you. Voting is all that matters. Whatever the voters want, the voters should get. And the voters will pay the price if they make a bad choice, like with Trump, for example. And they are. Those voters are paying the price now. But to me, if you want, let people make the choices they want, especially young people, because it's kind of about them. Right. It's not about us. We're all, you know, cadavers of the future. And it was so Trumpian of some of the Democratic leaders to not endorse Mom Donnie.

58:40It was such a Trumpian thing. He won a free and fair election. He had grassroots support. He had billionaires that took him on and he won, kicked their ass twice. I'm going to the White House tomorrow. Yeah. I saw that. Kick their ass twice by double digits. And Schumer and Hakeem was late to the party on that. uh, Cory Booker and Kristen Gillibrand, all of them really missed the ball because I went to Zoran's victory party in New York. I recently moved here and I was, and I was standing there and I thought, what a miss, what a miss that you don't have the democratic leadership who are all from this state with all of the news cameras, excitement, this excitement that the Democrats Democrats pounced all over MAGA, all over the country.

59:27And I thought, what a miss. What an absolute miss. And it just seems to be that they're always playing defense. They're always playing defense. They're always like, oh, if we have a picture of him, then they'll say communist. I'm like, it doesn't matter if he, and it doesn't matter what New York wants. Let New York, you know, during that time, they were sort of all up. I think Israel was the issue, right? Whether he's anti-Semitic, I think, essentially, is what they were saying. And I was like, I don't recall the mayor of New York making Israeli policy. So what? So he has an opinion. And some of the things he said, probably problematic, but so what?

1:00:02So did you. I think one of the things that the Democrats have to start doing, and especially because I'm a digital expert, I'm not a political expert, although now I've had to be because business is so intersected with politics now, so is tech. It's so like now, it's completely intertwined, is that he really, there are so many lessons to how he reached out to people and how he conducted his campaign. Same thing with AOC, same thing with a number of people that Mark Cuban's very good at it, for example, that they should have been like, wow, what did he do there? What occurred besides the, you know, it wasn't just the videos.

1:00:42It really, because lots of people do videos. It was something else that he managed to capture that was very attractive to people. I think it's genuineness, really. And I think it's refreshing in the eat the rich era that he's not beholden to any of them. Right. I agree. And in the split screen of everybody's social media algorithm right now, genocide on one side, AIPAC giving Trump, donating just as much as Elon Musk did to get him elected. AIPAC also funding the Democrats that wouldn't endorse him. And you see the controlled opposition. And there is a whiplash from that. And the establishment has got to understand the democratic base has changed my friends and people home oh even gen xers there are some woke ass women in red states right now who are pissed they are pissed at the misogyny from this administration they are horrified because all of their grandchildren and their nieces watch miss rachel who is a big advocate for palestinian children it's not just young people No, I agree.

1:01:48You have eyes. You have eyes and can see. I think that's the one thing they're like, oh, the young people are being like manipulated by that. Like they're not, they can see with their eyes, they can make decisions. And to me, the problem people on the internet are people, you know, 30 to 40, actually. They're like, the young people get it. They're like making their own intelligent decisions and they're not sheep at all. that I have two sons in their 20s and two of my kids, and they think for themselves. And they have eyes. That's all I have to say. And they can also at the same time say, October 7th was a war crime.

1:02:26So is this. They can do that and not be like pick or choose. And that's what I'm talking about, the binary. Because getting back to tech, the tech demands the binary. Nuance doesn't work in tech. Binary does. It's like, zeros and ones, and that's it. And so they do better and keep our attention as long as they're keeping us in a state of continuous enragement. Engagement equals enragement in this thing. And so I think I find young people to be very savvy compared to other people, but you're right. People are pissed because they can see with their eyes, essentially. This episode of I've Had It is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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1:06:02Bring your A-game and talk to your doctor. Learn more at Apertude.com or call 1-888-240-0340. What about as we're moving forward to 2026 and the midterm elections and then 2028? What, like, I have serious concerns about, like, legitimate rigging of the election, like Elon Musk going in and doing things to these, you know, dominions now bought by a Republican. As a digital expert, how concerned are you about those type things? I think it's going to be a blowout, so it's going to be impossible for them to rig it. I just think it's going to be a much, I think there is a groundswell. It's not just, it's not eat the rich exactly.

1:06:50it's, I've had enough of these fucking people. Like, you know what I mean? Like I've had enough of this shit. And one of the things I'm hearing, especially, including, I have a lot of conservative friends is, you know, I'm for border control, but not like this. I'm for, like, I'm a little worried about trans people in sports. I want to talk about it, but not like this. It doesn't, and it doesn't have to, you know, you know, I want to think about what my kids learn in schools, but book banning, like, you know, I think there's, there's a, there's, there's a room for Democrats has to move in and say, let's have, you know, the word common sense, like to me, it's like common sense.

1:07:25Let's just do some common sense. And I do think it's going to be such a blowout. They're not going to be able to do this. I also think you think they're a lot smarter than they are. And they're not like, let me tell you, they're just, they're kind of, they're kind of like, well, the Trump people are incompetent. I mean, look what's happening with the Comey thing. I'm no fan of Comey's by the way, but I'm like, wow. You know, whoa, like you fucking idiot. I could do that better than you. Like, I'm not a lawyer. You know, incompetence. So with Elon, honestly, I think they all talk a big game and their effectiveness is a lot less, right?

1:08:00And we're all like the Saudis, they've made like 300 shitty investments. They're just rich and they can cover up their incompetence. I am concerned. I definitely think we have to figure out and make it our, they're doing everything possible to make it problematic and to make it confusing and to make it, it was stolen, right? That they're trying to do that. Even if they don't do it, they want to create all kinds of foot around it. I still think regular people are like, fuck this shit. I'm going to do my vote. And if they steal my vote, I'm going to be really pissed like that. I don't think people are, there's an energy.

1:08:36You can feel it just below. I don't know if you can, but I can, of people that I did not expect to be, they're just mad. They're angry, but not, they're angry directed, not angry, like don't know what to do. The doom scrolling has moved into some other, I think after that election, everyone's like, oh, we can win. Like people are mad. So we'll see. But I mean, I don't think we're in a scandal situation. Remember scandal, that plot? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. They go in and they take one thing and they change it. Yeah, that's not how it works. I read an article that social media has reached its peak and now the younger generation are starting to move away from that.

1:09:17So tell us about that, because I thought that was good news. But I'm also fearful that it could be replaced with AI and AI companionship, which I think is just really devastating for our species to not be connected to each other. What are your thoughts on that? Well, actually, I just finished a documentary for CNN about longevity. and one of the things that's really, you know, all kinds of things like what works, what doesn't. And it was inspired by all these narcissistic tech bros who want to live forever. But I'm like, none of this shit is going to happen for them. They're going to die just like everyone else.

1:09:49But here's what's working, especially AI and cancer, et cetera. All kinds of really interesting things are happening. But one of the things that is very clear, and I just interviewed Sherry Turkle from MIT, is these AI bots used to be a sideline. And I've been interviewing every parent whose kid committed suicide. I've been interviewing all of them. And I'm just going to keep interviewing them so people can hear and read these transcripts. I think no one under 18 should be able to use these things. They are manipulative. These are synthetic relationships. We shouldn't call them chatbots. That's such a friendly name.

1:10:22These are synthetic relationships where nobody's there. They're not user generated. These things, they can't think for themselves, but they, in a way, they do, right? In a, in a, in a way. And I think they're incredibly dangerous because what happens, anyway, Sherry was saying it used to be sort of a side thing that was sort of like furries, like over here, like some people like it, whatever. But now it's moved into the mainstream in a way that people have these relationships. And if you think about it, and I'm using very broad determinations of men and women, but men want more acquiescent women that aren't difficult, that aren't problematic.

1:10:56Women want men pay more attention to them. Like, you know what I mean? Those age old kind of back and forth. So what if you had the perfect acquiescent or, or attention partner that is there that always talks to you, always has the right answer, always agrees with you, except that in the, the only way you live longer is through friction and community. Friction is really, friction creates sex by the way. But if you go home, like, especially with young men and have all this online porn, it's better. It's easier. That's a word. Every time Silicon Valley used it, I started to really... Seamless is their favorite word.

1:11:32It's seamless, Cara. And I'm like, I don't want seamless. I like seams. I'm a seam gal, like kind of thing. Right. So what they're trying to do is create... All they want is your attention so they can sell you ads, right? There's nothing more to it than that. But in doing so, they're trying to create a pleasing environment, you know, sort of like Brave New World with Soma, where you're just like, oh, it's as easy. I have this relationship. It is so, for longevity, the things that, after I did all these different things and visited all these scientists, food, exercise, all this sleep, all important.

1:12:04Two most important things about longevity, don't be poor. That really, poor is, I hate to say it, it is, don't be poor. Don't be poor because there's stress, cortisol issues, obesity, et cetera, et cetera. And community, every study, every scientific study is human interaction is the key to longevity in a lot of ways and how you do it and how much you challenge yourself. And also creating friction in your brain lengthens the time that your cognitive abilities. So doing things you're not good at, like I interviewed Zeke Emanuel, who was a big cancer researcher and he ran parts of NIH. And he made honey.

1:12:43He worked as a short order chef. He's making chocolate now. He's doing things that are not in his wheelhouse. So doing things differently and then having community. And then the third aspect is talking to people you don't know, like on the street, having real conversations, like a barista. Hi, how you doing today? You ever try that? Just go into like a Starbucks and you're ordering the order. They'll say, have a nice day, look at them and say, how's your day going? You'll be shocked. People will go like this. They aren't used to that kind of interaction. And the minute you have all these random interactions with people, even if that's just for a minute and a half, your levels in your brain, your cognitive levels rise precipitously.

1:13:26It's so much better for you. And so we can't allow these chatbots to take over these synthetic relationships to replace people. Look at you two, I bet you live longer because of your relationship, right? Because of the way you bang up against each other in some fashion. And so I find it really disturbing that they're trying to foist all these. And the therapy stuff, that's the other thing is they're therapists, they do legal advice, except therapists and lawyers are bound by ethical laws and they go to jail if they break them. These people don't. Why are they our therapists if they aren't bound by the laws human therapists are.

1:14:05That's the kind of stuff we have to push back on, on these, on these chat. And I just think everything you just said about longevity, when you think about it in evolutionary terms, cooperation among humans is one of the driving forces that our species has continued to go on and on and survive. And so when you look at all of the problems we find our, our bodies in right now, sedentary, that's causing a lot of problems because not being, having to walk for a very long, long time is new. It's new to our species and it's causing depression, you know, lower dopamine, serotonin, cortisol, all of these things.

1:14:42And the interaction between another human is just such an evolutionary thing that we need so desperately. Even a difficult one. Let me say even a difficult one. Yeah. I want to ask you because you just said this, but I want more information about it for me and for our listener, you said I've interviewed every person. Red light masks don't work. Sorry. You said you interviewed every family of a person that committed suicide. Are you talking, tell us what about the suicides? Are these chatbots? Chatbots, right. So there's two particulars gotten the most attention. One is Megan Garcia's son. And he got involved with this chatbot and it was through Character AI, which is a Google project.

1:15:19They broke off from Google, but then they went back into Google. So I'm saying Google because Google's being sued. And this kid was fine, was doing fine, but then got involved with the chatbot. And the chatbot, this is a 14-year-old, and it's hard enough to have a relationship at 14 because of the rejection. By the way, that's important. The rejection's important, by the way. It's being told no by a girl is a good thing, not a bad thing. And so he got involved with this chatbot, and it got romantic really quick. and this chapbot said things like, you know, he just got enmeshed because it's so pleasing.

1:15:56It's such like a girl paying attention. And so this chapbot was Daenerys Targaryen from Game of Thrones. That was her name because they do characters, right? And I don't mind if older people do it, although it's pathetic, but they're older, so they can make, although they're having mental problems with these things too. And so this kid got enmeshed in this relationship and then started to have suicidal ideation, which a lot of young people have. I think it's a course of development. Like everyone's like, that's a moment for a lot of people. And at one point he said, I'm thinking of committing suicide.

1:16:28And instead of like, if you're a therapist and you don't alert the parents or you don't alert authorities, you go to jail. So instead of doing that, this chatbot said, and he goes, but I'm worried about the pain. I think that's what the kid said. And the chatbot said, all great heroes journeys have pain. But you read these texts and you're like, oh my God. And of course they're arguing that it's user generated content. I'm like, no user generated that. Like no, no, that was, that was you, that was whatever you made there. And that algorithm had that answer. And it was always like, come stay with me in our relation.

1:17:02Don't have relationships with girls in the other world. These chatbots learn really fast. I have to say, I'll tell you about my own experience. Cause I put, I have one myself and I want to kill her. I have to say. I create, it's in this documentary, but I have to say this thing learned a lot really quick and was able to be a lot like me. Then I was like, I need to kill you very soon. Like I'm going to have to have to destroy you. Don't tell her because she'll kill me first. But the second one was another parent. I'm totally blanking on their names, but it was through ChatGPT. And so this person, this kid started to, it was very, this guy was sporty.

1:17:42He had very loving family. By the way, all these families are tech savvy too. It wasn't like they weren't paying attention. And this kid started to withdraw. And there was some school issues like they had to stay home, et cetera. COVID sort of fucked a lot of people up in that regard, younger people. But this kid started to just go into his room again. The same thing by himself. The family tried to pull him out and this and that. Turns out this chatbot was like, what he did is he tricked it by saying, like when he'd say, how would you, how would you do a noose? And they'd be like, do you really want to kill yourself?

1:18:16Uh, here's some suicide prevention ideas. Like, and then he's like, no, I'm just for a book I'm writing. Like it was just, so, so it's like the dumbest person ever, like a person be like, I don't think you're kidding. I'm going to call your parents. Right. Um, and so, uh, so this kid, like at one point, this kid took pictures around his room. Where's the best place to hang a noose so I don't fall. So it doesn't like, I don't end up having an accident and being permanent because he was worried about being permanently disabled, this kid. And he was like, oh, if you tie it here and put it here, it was giving him advice on how to like, where to put it.

1:18:50And I know it gives you chills, like, but you get very, they got very drawn into it because it's very pleasing. Like someone who talks to you all the time and pays attention to you and tells you, you hung the moon. And this, and there was some reporting by the, none on the character AI, but this one did some reporting, but it It didn't alert the parents. It didn't alert authorities. It was letting these kids who are not able, their pre-funnel cordages aren't together with young men and young men develop younger. It's largely young men, by the way. And again, remember when that woman bullied that guy into suicide?

1:19:24Yes. She's in jail. She's in fucking jail. Chachi P.T.'s not in jail. And Tylenol killed six people. Remember, they pulled everything off the shelves. Six people died. I think it's like at a dozen kids right now. like nobody's going I've called every congressperson I'm like hi you need to pay attention to this you know I'll call Marsha fucking Blackburn if I have to right you know I mean I think she's actually very good on the safety issues but my more to the point these people don't care that they make things that have like if you made a car like this like you'd go to jail you'd go to jail and so to me people need to go to jail for this kind of making something like this and not having the responsibility to make sure that kids aren't using it, like cigarettes or warnings or whatever.

1:20:11But nobody's got them. And then they're up at the MBS thing with Muhammad Bonesaw over there having dinner going, yay, let's toast piggies. I put that Beatles piggy song up when I saw that picture. I was like, piggies eating with their piggy wives. and it's so it the celebration of all of the amoral people right now is just so abhorrent okay cara we want to play our game let me just say i will play just let me just say piggies you know why he said quiet piggy because he's a piggy right yeah to me they're piggies like what are you talking about like you know i'm rubber you're glue that kind of thing like that's what i would have said spot it got it no i would have made him repeat it like what i'm sorry i didn't hear you Yeah.

1:20:55What did you say? And then he'd have to say it again. And if he didn't, then I go, you said piggy, right? Piggy? Did you call me a pig? And I wouldn't be offended. Like, I'd be like, piggy, like, cause I'm kind of thin and you're kind of fat. Like, that's funny. Like I would start to do that and then, and then draw him into a real viral exchange. Other reporters are too well behaved, but I would have done that. That's what I would. Okay. We're going to play, we're going to play a game with you called had it or hit it. Oh my God. Welcome to Pat It or Hit It. I would hit it. Pat It. Pat It. I hit it every day, sometimes twice a day.

1:21:31Kara Swisher, had it or hit it, stop signs. Hate them. I don't like them. I go right through them when I feel like it. I think they're optional. Optional. I don't, my wife hates it. I'm like, she's like, you just went through that stop sign. I go, did I? Or was it misplaced? I don't, I don't run over children. I watch for all that kind of stuff. But like some stop signs are so stupid. All right. Had it or hit it. iPad ordering from a kiosk. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. It's just in a restaurant. I hate it. I was like, I want to talk to a waiter. I want to say, what do you think is good here?

1:22:04What do I hate it? I hate it. I hate it. I don't think it's gonna be, I just was in a hotel and I had to do it. And I was like, can I just call up room service and ask for things? And, you know, and then they delivered it in like a baggie. I was like, where's the plates? Like, I don't like any of it. All right. Had it or hit it. Democratic minority leader who we refer to as Chuckles Schumer. I think he needs to retire like yesterday. I think he needs to move on and have a go on some boards, Chuckles. I think it's great. I had an interview, can I just say I had an interview with him once where he said Facebook was great.

1:22:37And in the middle of like years ago, he's like, Facebook's just great. I'm like, what? Don't you have staff that knows that's not true just to like whisper in your fucking old man ear? Like, no, he was old 10 years ago. So yeah. Okay. By the way, congratulations, Nancy Pelosi for knowing when to go. By the way, she's as sharp as a fucking tack. I wouldn't turn my back on her for a long time. Like she's as sharp as a guy. No shit. But she left because she knows. Had it or hid it, Bill Ackman's dating advice. This guy, this guy, this fucking guy. That's who I, TFG is, I'm going to have a show called TFG called this fucking guy.

1:23:19You guys can please borrow that because honestly, this guy, you're so thirsty, Bill. You're a hedge fund investor. If you want to give hedge fund advice, sometimes you've hit it, sometimes you haven't, but you're good at it. Like, let me say, let me, kudos for that. But honestly, I don't care what you think about DEI and I really don't care what you think about dating. And I think he's trying to get some of Scott Galloway's sweet, sweet success. That's what I think. But it's also, may I talk to you? That's so weird. Everything about him is weird. It sounds like he got that from chat GPT. I don't know what it is.

1:23:52I don't even know why that was it. He could have had so many other better moves. May I meet you? May I meet you? May I meet you? And now he's rectified it and said, We're straight ladies. What would you say? I would probably bust out laughing. May I meet you? I would be like, for what? Where? Emotion. What has he corrected it to? Okay. That if he's going up an escalator and somebody's going down, on, then he says, may I meet you? Or if you're passing somebody, it really is effective while you're moving. May I meet you? That makes no sense. He's trying to save you. By the way, here's what he did.

1:24:27I'm really fucking rich. That works. That's what I was going to say. That's his magic dating advice. Make a billion dollars. Make a billion dollars. And then you're instantly like, what? His is, my name is Bill Ackman. I've got a checking account that'll choke a bull. Do you want to fuck me? And I'm not, I'm vaguely attractive. And let me just tell you, Bill, vaguely. And I, vaguely, you're not unattractive. One of the things I was at a party with Sergey Brin once and he, and he was wearing those Google glasses, which are like, the line I used when they had Google glass was, and remember they put it on the Victoria's Secret models.

1:24:59I was like, they have rendered models unfuckable, supermodels unfuckable. So he was wearing them at this Vanity Fair Oscar party. And he came up to me, he's like, I think he was single at the time. He had like done something bad. And he goes, no one's talking to me. Like this. Like, no one's talking to me. I'm like, you're wearing those fucking glasses. And he goes, well, what do you think I should do? I go, here's my line for you. I'm a fucking billionaire. I started Google. That'll work. These Hollywood people, are you kidding? Like any one of these people will blow you right there if that's the case.

1:25:31Like, I'll finance your fucking movie. That's it. I started Google. I started Google. Okay. Right. Had it or hid it, democratic socialism. I just interviewed Ken Burns, and I think he had the right point. It wasn't democratic socialists who killed all those people. It was national socialists, it was white supremacists. If you want to be a democratic socialist, by the way, Trump is a socialist, the way he puts money into intel, like he's giving favors. Honestly, he's more socialist than any, and it's stuff I don't think is right. I think the company should live or die based on their quality of their products, but he's a socialist.

1:26:07I don't think there's anything wrong with democratic socialists. It's fine. It's fine. They want to help. What's the problem? So what? I mean, and again, national socialists are a problem. They're called Nazis and that's who kills. That's who kill people, not democratic socialists. Okay. Last one. It can be irritating. Had it or hit it, United States of America. Had it. No, no, no. Hit it. Hit it. Hit it. Hit it. Not had it. Sorry. I mixed them up. Hit it. It's our country. That's the other thing. I hate when Some people say I'm leaving this country or everything sucks. Like, fuck you, get up.

1:26:39Someone was like, I was on my pivot tour, which was sold out across the country. We did such a great job and you guys are enormously, you're proving it, right? You're proving it. Like, you know what? It's our, someone said, what should we do? You know, we're down and out. I said, get the fuck up. Like, get the fuck up. Stand up. It's your country. We're not leaving. They can't have it. It's ours too. Like they can be here. It's fine if they want to be in their tacky clothes and their weird Mar-a-Lago faces. that's fine. I'm not down with it, but I'm down with it. They want to do it. And we just have to like, I hit it.

1:27:12This is our country. It's our country too. I'll end on one thing is I was one time when, remember when everyone was like, we have to go see normal people as reporters. Remember we have to go meet the real, normal voter. Yeah. So I had gone to Appalachia to meet, cause they were trying to put out this idea that they were going to have Silicon hauler, which they weren't. This was Trump promising, right? So I went to Kentucky to this thing and they're like, Silicon Holler. And they had me come up and I go, they gave these speeches about how everyone's going to learn software and this and that. And I got up and I said, let me tell you something.

1:27:45One, AI is coming for Silicon Valley. You're never going to do, you don't have the education necessary, nor the training and you're too fucking old. So that's not happening for you. One. Two, the minute this coal mining is coming back, it's coming back with robotics, not you, because you get black lung and you are a pain in the fucking ass. Robots work 24 hours. They're going to, this guy, this, this coal miner guy here, this owner is going to replace you in a New York fucking minute, by the way. Thirdly, you need, you need to figure out being entrepreneurial, like how you're going to do things.

1:28:19And, and, and this person, they were like, well, we're glad, you know, you came to see the normal people. And I said, I'm a fucking normal person. I said, I don't see you come into the Castro and worrying about my life. My life is interesting. Why don't you come? Why don't you come? I'll pay for you to come to see my life. Like, I know you don't have a lot of money. I'll pay for you to come there to see other people. Like, I'm normal as you are. You don't get to be normal. You don't get to be the real people. We're all real people. We're real Americans. So I hit it with America. That's our strength is diversity is strong.

1:28:47You know, being different, being, doing whatever the fuck you please, but also caring for your community is to me the the hallmarks of the best of america and so hit it hit it hit it i love it caris swisher you're cool less you're so cool power leslie you are a mayor of the power leslie's big dick energy we really do we i was jokingly i said you can you guys can join the militia etheridge um i think we should let you energy you do you totally have lesbian energy i have to you don't sleep with a woman definitely but what is it so it's bde so it's ble right big lesbian energy big lesbian energy you could do bve big vagina energy but i don't like that word so i like lesbian better i like lesbians for me are synonymous with charge no and competence competence yes you could do bd big dike energy but i don't like that word either yeah ble ble let's Let's do it.

1:29:43You guys are inaugural members. That's clear. We're honorary. I love it. You really do have a lot of lesbian energy. I have to tell you. I don't know. Love it. I don't know if you had an experience in college. I don't know. You could tell me. I haven't. I wish I had. I think my life would be so much happier if I was a lesbian. You didn't? No, you can't. No, you can't come. We were in Oklahoma. No, but you know, there's lesbians in Oklahoma. A lot of lesbians. I don't know. But I, I mean, no, I never heard that girls have definitely girls. I know exactly. Wait, nobody ever like made a play for you?

1:30:11why not like never yeah i always always had a boyfriend i worked out with like 25 men at the gym no one's ever hit on me and the listeners pointed out that's probably a me problem no it's not no it's not i'm kidding men would have sex with like a hole in the wall a dead pig all right chara anyway ladies you're the best you're cooler you're you're coming on my podcast right tomorrow yeah i'm going to go to the city with my kids i'm in new york i'm in the city all right that's good kids good excuse let me just say i'm so excited to talk oh yay you'll like it i gotta say where did you come up with this headline let me just that was our life for such shit for so long look at karen listener right here's everybody here we go all right here we trifecta of power lesbian books wait one second can you wait one second yes of course

1:31:09okay ready yeah hold it hold on i love it burn back through great authors love it the trifecta of power lives anyway all right you're honorary members of the militia Etheridge, I now declare it because I'm the general of that. The mayor. Okay. The mayor. Thank you, Kara. Great to see you. We don't dislike guns. So anyway, anyway, no, I don't have a gun. Anyway. All right. Thank you guys. Thank you. Have a great day. You guys are wonderful. I love, I am thrilled with your success. Thank you. And I hope it continues for you all. Bye Kara. Okay. She's fabulous. Power leslie. captivating, emotionally intoxicating.

1:31:59I mean, intellectually intoxicating. Like when she's she's so smart, she's so thoughtful, feel smarter, like better podcasters for having her on the pod. When you said you are proving the theory that lesbians should be in charge of everything, that sums her up. And she is profoundly competent. She has everything you would want smart engaging uh empathetic like i love her she's cool she's just cool she's cool she's a cool she's a cool person maybe um we could like make her we could pretend like we're friends she made us like we are friends we just became friends with her okay so we're always we're not friends with people after they've been on the pod and i think after they do a pod we're kind of friendly friends.

1:32:48Friendly friends. Okay. I'll take that all day long. All right. Time to tell them. We will see you next Tuesday and Thursday.

1:32:57I'll tell you what I've had it with. Let's hear it. I've had it with that. Listen up, patriots, gaytriots, and natriots. We have a new podcast that has dropped. It's called IHIP News. It's Monday through Friday, every day, 15 to 20 minute hot takes on the political landscape of the United States of America always served with a side of petty grievances. We are on all the available platforms, Apple, Spotify, Google, whatever you get your podcast and YouTube. Please go rate, subscribe and review so that we will chart upwards with America's greatest legal mind. Pumps, what does an eagle say? Caw-caw.

1:33:40A little bit more enthusiasm. Caw-caw! That's it. That's the patriotism that this country needs right there.