660 - NATHAN ASPINALL - Scouted By Man Utd, Matchplay Champion, & Battle With Dartitis

29:03What did your mum and dad do for work? What's their background? So my dad, randomly, so he was one of the first guys, he had a company called Econovend and he was one of the first guys to have like coffee vending machines. Oh, right. Remember like Maxwell House type thing? So these little brown cups. Yeah. So my dad owned a company that was one of the first ones to put them in like offices and stuff. Oh, wow. So, you know, we had quite a decent start to life. Yeah. and then his partner nicked all his fucking money. True story. Really? Yeah, left basically, I think we went away in Aldi somewhere and came back and none of the staff had been paid.

29:39All the company cars got shipped out to wherever and all the bank accounts got rinsed. Fuck. Left my dad bankrupt. Did he manage to get anything back through the legal process? No. No, nothing. Again, this was, what was this, 25, not longer than that, 28 years ago. so yeah so at the start I had a really good you know good upbringing and you know my mum's a hairdresser and then obviously not together anymore they both moved on yeah but yeah now my mum she's worked at co-op and my dad does I don't even know what he does like some like PPI stuff something like that on the phone so but yeah now like I say you know they've always looked after me and obviously my grandma and granddad and really close to them as well.

30:28So we're a really tight family. Class, class. Was it always your dream to be a darts player when you was a young kid? Absolutely not. No? No. Well, you just told me... I still don't know if it's my dream now. Honestly, God, I can't stand it. I might have a lion. You're not joking either, are you? No, I fucking hate it. What, the playing or the whole... I just don't like darts. You get no enjoyment out of it. No, that's wrong of me to say it. I love it when I'm on the stage, but I can't practice at all. It just bores the life out of me. So when you're at home and you've got a rare day off, you don't go on the practice board?

31:06No, never. I built a practice room and it's still got the cling film all over it. I'm not even... Has it? Yeah, I just... Evening, buyer's remorse. Buy a new car? I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyer's rejoice. I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyer's rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com.

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32:26What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes. Yeah, you know, I loved it. Obviously, when I first started playing, that's why I got into the game. And I do, you know what's wrong with that? I do love the game. You know, it's gave me a good life. And the buzz I get when I walk onto stage is unbelievable. But, you know, stuff like playing on a pro tour, I fucking hate it. Do you? I can't. That's why I'm pulling out of them. Yeah. I don't enjoy them. Right. and you know get me on a get on a stage I love it yeah but playing on pro tours you know the travelling side of things the practising all the shit that comes with it like on the social media and all that stuff are you still on social media are you yeah I've got some looks after it but you know a lot of the posts are from me right but yeah it's yeah it's gave me a good life and I love the buzz when I'm on a stage but I can't watch it no I can't remember the last time I watched a game of darts we just did we can say this over here Nathan was just a guest on my other pod the darts the double tops the Premier League one he told us before we started recording he was like I've not seen a single darts I knew Johnny I knew Johnny and Little were qualified because Luke told me at weekend and I knew Josh had been eliminated but I didn't know what else was going on but I just at the end of the day it's my job yeah and you know some people like Dolby lives and breathes darts yeah yeah absolutely lives and breathes darts you know people like Mike Smith they they're people that will you know when they're at a tournament so at a Euro tour they played in the afternoon they've won we're going out for food they'll have the darts on the phone wow watching it wow that's extreme love or like me and Dolby was in a casino once in I can't remember where we were somewhere abroad and he was out with a lad called Mac Elkin who manages like Dimitri and Jose and stuff like that so in a casino and they're watching the Modus Super Series.

34:21I'm like, what are you doing? It's the time we gave a blackjack or something, but it's really good to see when you start watching the Modus Super Series. It's just because they enjoy it that much. They just love it. And you know, it's fair play to them. You know what I mean? They enjoy it. You know, people probably think I'm weird for sitting there watching golf all day. I absolutely love watching the golf. I love watching the snooker. That's what I'm into. You know, they're into darts. But for me, I don't have much fucking paid to do that. How do you stay consistent if you don't practice? Just class.

34:50Obviously you're joking there, but it must be natural. I do a lot of exhibitions. That's my practice. So you still get to be on stage doing it. So I get a lot of criticism for the amount of exhibition work that I do. By who? Of players, you know, first and foremost. A lot of the players. What's their argument, though? So I'm pulling out of the Pro Tours this week. Yeah. But I've just done four exhibitions. Yeah. And I'm doing four exhibitions. So I've worked Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Yeah. obviously I'm here today we use and then it's a pro tour Tuesday, Wednesday which I pulled out of but I'm going to do my exhibitions Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and the day like I said on the other podcast is I'm here to make as much money as I can for my family and I see myself as a business that's how I see myself there's certain people in darts that are similar to me, Gezi being one of them you know ultimately, yes I'm a sportsman, I'm a dart player but ultimately I'm here to make money for me and my family and a business decision is do we do four exhibitions or eight exhibitions effectively or go to two Pro Tours I'm going to make more of the exhibitions than the Pro Tours granted it's not ranking but going back to what I said before I enjoy exhibitions I hate Pro Tours so you've got to do what's right for you and if I'm playing on a Pro Tour my dartitis comes back I still struggle with my dartitis I get dead nervous on the Pro Tour what because of the silence?

36:16yeah it's just too intense for me so my dad is coming back and I look at it like so I won that Euro tour four weeks ago I've been playing absolutely brilliant in exhibitions at 9 out of against Dobie on Thursday night beat Luke last night for then me to go to the pro tour Tuesday, Wednesday and potentially play shit and not my confidence going into next week's Euro tour I don't think it's worth that risk and that's how I see it you've got to balance it all yeah I do and obviously at the moment my grandad's ill very ill so I want to go back back home and go and see him in Oswald tomorrow you know what I mean so these are all the things that people don't see they should say you're pulling out of stuff but there is more more to it than can be asked of course there is yeah of course there is and you could get knocked out round round one of the that's it it's brutal it's honest to god and obviously you sponsor Scott so you'll you'll check out the money yeah yeah yeah ask for a refund I want to mess it Scott but yeah it's you know you could tip up average 104 get beat 6 '4 and not make a penny yeah whereas the exhibitions you're getting paid lump time to be there again it's that blast of moralising as well you know at least when you go to a Euro tour and you average 104 and get beat 6 '4 at least you've picked up something effectively going to work for free that's how I see it but you know listen I'm not saying I'm right and they're wrong you know people do what they want Dobie plays and everything Ross Smith plays and everything Cullen plays and everything that's up to them who's to say what's right or wrong in that me I pick and choose I pull out of a lot there's a reason why I pull out of stuff and generally speaking it's pro tours because I'm shit on the floor and I get dead nervous and I get tired that's fair enough that's my reason really now I want to just quickly go back I know you've spoken about this a lot so we can keep this brief but a lot of our listeners might not know who you are you actually you were a good goalkeeper weren't you I know it's no secret were you on Manchester United's books were you so I was at the training the goalkeeper academy this story's been exaggerated so much over the years like to the point where I was pretty much in the England World Cup team that's how much it's been exaggerated and that was actually Michael Smith when I was younger goalkeeper I had trials at Stockport County which then led to being scouted by Rangers and I got offered a contract off Rangers when I was like 9, 10 or however old I was so that's not a paid thing no no I was like 9 or 10 I can't remember how old I was turned it down because I was nine not concentrating on school and stuff like that and yeah then I was at the United Goalkeeping Academy my coaches were Ron Healy I'm not sure you've heard of Ron Healy he's played for City in Northern Ireland he was a goalkeeper coach and I was there until I was about 14 and never played for United I've never said I played for United but people have exaggerated it so much people have a clickbait but I was a good goalkeeper but ultimately I wasn't tall enough and What, were you a short kid, were you?

39:15Well, yeah, well, I don't know, about 5 '8", 5 '9", or whatever it was. And yeah, then stopped playing for a bit, played a bit of Sunday League football. I did a season at Cheetletown. Yeah, was semi-pro. Yeah, like semi-pro. And that was kind of it. I stopped playing football at 17, and that's when I started the darts. Do you ever dabble now? Do you ever go and play a game? The one thing in life that I wish, if I had one wish is to play one more football match really because I've not played a game of football in net since I was 17 since I started playing darts I've been asked to do charity stuff yeah listen I can't run for shit yeah right I try I do my running yeah but I've got like two left feet I can't play outfield right I can't wish breaking my fingers ah so that's the reason you don't so I've been asked to do loads of charity games in the past what about if if a massive like soccer aid darts would you do it yeah that's definitely yeah yeah I mean that's to walk out Old Trafford or something would be surely you must have been invited to play at Old Trafford and stuff like that have you not no Edgley Park is probably the best I've done wow you would have thought because there's always these charity games in the off season as well in the summer there's always games going on I have been invited where they were maybe they were at Old Trafford I don't know but I've had emails in the past of people wanting me to play for charity matches but I just can't take that risk can't take the risk you know what I mean I can't be breaking my fingers yeah right that's fair enough so when did you first pick up some darts so I was about 16, 17 that's late in life isn't it yeah well you think that the first time I picked a dart up Luke was a world champion when you put it in perspective Luke was a world champion the first time I picked a dart you said on the other pod Luke was chucking darts at 18 months that's mental I was learning to talk and he's throwing darts but yeah no 16, 17 my granddad and my dad I've always played my granddad was a really good player back in the day what level did your granddad play at?

41:14I think he was like county level so what would that be in terms of an average what would he be averaging around? 75, 80 obviously 40 years ago that was really good now he's wanking it he averaged about 40 I've seen him play you did beat me didn't you so so I started going to the pub with my grandad on a Friday night and the story is that my grandad beat Leighton Reese so my grandad beat Leighton Reese in the 80s, 70s, whatever it was so what they used to do back in the olden times obviously we have these big massive exhibitions now the pros would go around to pubs and play a lot of money games that's how they made their extra money to go on the to kind of sponsor themselves.

42:04Yeah. And this particular night where Grandad beat, was the only one to beat Leighton Reese. And Leighton Reese gave him his darts at the end of the night. In 19, God knows when. Yeah. So when I first started playing darts, I'm like, Grandad, you ready darts? Gave him his Leighton Reese darts. Started playing with Leighton Reese darts. And then Wimow, I shouldn't say this now, I'm just with Target, but Wimow made Leighton Reese darts. So I like the shape of him. That's what I started with. I bought a set of them and then now my darts that I would target are based on like a 1970s late in Reese's dart obviously they've been changed over the years modern technology like the tungsten instead of whatever they used to be but that's why my darts they are quite different to a lot of other people's darts they're bulbous and that's kind of why because I started playing with darts from late in Reese's that's quite cool that so you're there and your granddad's playing and you start throwing darts at 16, 17 in the pub.

43:02When do you, and we're always fascinated to ask any dance player that comes on here, when do you actually realise fucking hell, I'm good, good? No idea. Yeah. What happened was I got the bug. As a lot of people do, you know, you've seen it in lockdown. Everyone was playing darts. Yeah. And people that have never played darts before, they put a board up in lockdown because they couldn't leave. Everyone was buzzing. And then obviously they're putting phones on playing little comps against each other. And once you start playing darts, the buzz is unbelievable. You know what I mean? at first but I I got good very quick and that I can't remember the first 180 all that stuff I can't remember that but I remembered in my first season playing in the pub so I used to go to there used to be Riley's in Stockport so I used to go with my dad on a Friday night when I was like 18 now when I could drink legally I used to go in there with my dad and we used to have like best of first to ten or whatever before we'd then go to like little knockouts Right.

44:02And I always remember going, I can't get better than 26 darts or 27 darts. Can't get better, Dad. I did the odd 180. Yeah. Then it was down to 24 darts. Can't get better than 24, Dad. Then it was 21. And after about six months of doing that, I then started winning these little comps, picking up 50 quid here on a Friday night and whatever. My first season playing in the pub league, I won the Stockport individuals. Okay. Now, Stockport is a massive dying hotbed. Yeah. like there's so many good players in Stockport and especially 10 years what 15 years ago yeah so to win that kind of you're good you know what I mean yeah and I thought oh yeah I'm actually that right you know what I mean and then all of a sudden I just dedicated myself after that because I knew I was good but I didn't know how good I was or how good I could be so I could practice my bollocks off right literally practice six hours a night well there you go because people might listen to this and go oh Nathan Asmold doesn't even practice but you have yeah I did I used to I used to I used to do like you say it was my life back then you know what I mean I would literally I'd get up in the morning I'd go work I'd then do night school do my accountancy come home and then practice starts till like 12 o 'clock and then go to bed and then do the same again and that's what I did for the first two years and I just literally played and then at weekends you know I'd go to comps on my own I'd get on a train to wherever my message would look after Brooke and that's the thing that people don't see I try and tell people now that you have to be dedicated you have to do something that no one else is doing and back then there was a lot of good players in Stockport but no one had the bollocks they got on a train at 8 o 'clock in the morning go to Northampton to play a comp for 200 quid on your own at 90 what was driving you?

45:50I just wanted to have money right and you knew that was and again I've mentioned it a few times and it seems like it what's the word I'm looking for? Like a vain thing to say, maybe I don't know that I've wanted money, but I did, I wanted a better life for me and my family and the drive was, I'm picking up, I had a normal job and I'm also picking up 200, 300 quid every weekend by playing darts. How old were you at this point? 19, something like that, 19, 20. It's a decent amount to add on top of your job as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you were studying accountancy? Yeah, I was studying accountancy, yeah.

46:26and then the actually kept going to comps getting better and better and better and better winning more and more and more and then obviously then went to the next level and started playing youth that's unreal I'm fascinated when you said you were stuck on you can't do less than 26 starts then 24 starts what do you think changed to drop you down to practice what's that practice getting better the more practice the better I was getting simple as that and you know like my daughter's boyfriend Josh you know he's he's 14 and he you know he's a good player and I'm just like listen you're good but you've got to dedicate you've just got to keep practising and practising and practising and it's the only way you're going to get better did he meet your daughter and then get into darts because of you or was he already no he already played darts but I do keep saying that she's only with you to meet your dad but yeah I keep saying so and obviously before honestly he's a great kid but before him she was with another guy I was like he's only with you to meet your Darts fan I'll show up but yeah so you weren't a massive Darts fan growing up then no you didn't watch like the Bristos the Taylors no the first match I ever watched was Tony O'Shea versus Ted Hankey okay in the semi-final of the Worlds at Lakeside and I think that was the year that Kiss won it right so God knows what year that was yeah I think it was I'm having 2012 12.

47:54Yeah. It's not ages ago. 14 years ago. So that shows, you know, how little I knew about that. Yeah. So when you got into dance, MVG was about. Yeah. And then fast. That's why MVGs will always be, to me, my goat. Really? And he knows that. You know what I mean? Yeah. He knows that. You'd put him above Taylor, above Bristow. Definitely above Bristow, in my eyes. But yeah, Taylor will always be. Yeah. But in my eyes, I don't look at Phil like I look at Michael. Right. Even on Major Michael, you know what I mean? But he knows this and he's always had this over me. He knows what I look up to him. Yeah.

48:32And I generally do. You know, what he's done for the game before Luke is unbelievable. He sent that to another level. Obviously, you had like your Taylors and your 80s and your Garys. Yeah, yeah. They took it here. Then Michael took it here. Then obviously, that little buggy just took it mental, hasn't it? Yeah, yeah. It's next level. So how do you, you're watching MVG in 2012 and then fast forward 10 years, you're in the Premier League, outdoing him in the Premier League. Was there ever an element of being a little bit starstruck? Yeah, 100%. 100 % with Michael. Yeah. I used to really struggle against him.

49:08Right. And like I say, he knows that. You know, I used to get dead nervous, even probably four or five years ago was probably when it stopped because I played him a lot in the Premier League and stuff like that but earlier on like yeah as soon as I drew Michael I'm like shit because obviously back then he was really good as well but yeah he's just the guy that you know I looked up to and you know Aidy was another one Aidy Lewis you know fortunate to be really really close with Aidy he's a legend of a man again I was with him last night I fucking love him today yeah I love him honestly he's such a nice guy yeah But I always remember I was on the pro tour.

49:50I'd been on the tour for six months, and Aidy and Gary were probably my idols growing up. Right, okay. When I first started watching it, I just loved the way they played the game, the throw and all that. Yeah. And my mate Andy Bolton was good mates of Aidy because he was from Stoke, even though he now says he's Scottish. And I remember playing 1-2-1, like the practice game. Yeah. So it was me, Andy Bolton, Ian White, and probably Andy Hamilton. Okay. Stokey's lot. And that was a really good mate of Andy. And then Aidy walked over. Bare in mind, I spoke to him over the course of the six months.

50:26He started playing one-two-one with me. Holy fuck. My hands were like this. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Practicing with him. Yeah. And that's what it does, you know, Andy. You've watched these guys on TV, then all of a sudden you're with them. Yeah. You know what I mean? It is a mad, it is mad. You know what I mean? I did the Modus thing and I was partners with Aidy. and for me like as a non-dart player I was just do you remember that bit because you watched it didn't you I can't quite remember but AD was throwing and he was hitting max max and then there was a bit when he was on double 19 and he dropped his dart and he just picked up and threw it like that straight in the double I've never seen anything like it it's insane isn't it do you remember the first time you played a professional match against either AD or MVG I remember the AD game because I was 4-0 down before I could even and actually hit a 20.

51:15I was on a streamboard as well. I was just shit. I really did. I think he beat me like 6-3 in the end. I pulled it back a bit. I generally don't remember the first time I played Michael. I really don't. I remember the first time I played my first ever professional game. I won my tour card out of fucking nowhere. Yeah. Was that for your Q school? Yeah, Q school. First time I went, won my tour card. That's mental, isn't it? Did you expect to go through or not? No. And you finished what, didn't you? The only reason I went to QSK was because, for a lot of people who don't know this, but I was going to the army.

51:55Why? So I was going to do SPS. Right. Like accountancy in the army. Okay. But I got a bit of a dicky heart, and it's on my medical report. So I did all the first stages of it all. Yeah. And then literally two weeks before I was due to do my basic training, it flagged up on my medical report and they said I couldn't go in and I had to wait five years to reapply. Fuck. True story. And then about two weeks later, I ended up going to Q School and women talk hard. So I didn't even really practice for it or anything because I wasn't even planning to do it. God's honest truth. Wow. And then... It was Q School.

52:33So what year was this? 2012? 2014? I won't even have a clue. I played the U Final 2015, maybe 2014. Yeah. And was Q School the same format as we know it is today, or was it different? It's not got the two phases. Okay. But obviously the numbers weren't like they are, and I was like 1 ,000 people in there. I think it was like, say, 250, 300 people. And I came top. Fucking hell. So obviously you got your automatic qualifiers, and I came top of the order of merit. But my first ever game, so back then you used to do UK Open qualifiers. Yeah, right. For the Pro Tours. my first ever game as a professional was against Simon Whitlock and the first ever match I played against me and I'm like I'm not this fucking good is this what you have to do you have to get nined out as a good game and he beat me I'll never forget that first game I ever played is on a tour I got a nined out against me wow that's mad yeah that's the diving in at the deep end that isn't it and it was at that point he realised he'd fucked it up do you think because again we're speaking about this on double tops but because the like the what's it called the academies now for the kids is so much better it was just a kid in the corner of a pub years ago now there's these JDC academy that's what they're called JDC yeah do you think it's not just JDC oh is it not so the one in Stockport that I'm the ambassador for as in JDC we're not affiliated with them oh okay and there's a lot that JDC's massive but there's also a lot of independent ones as well right so there's so many of them but in all of these and in yours it's going to have like the best equipment, the best boards, all that kind of stuff.

54:07Do you think, sounds stupid, but do you think we'll ever get to a point where the kids coming through now are so good, we're going to have like a million Luke Littlers. Do you think we're going to get to the point where every player can just hit a maximum every time? No. You don't? No. You've got to factor in nerves, pressure, conditions, crowds, if you've heard the crowds, you know what I mean? playing the player, ranking situations. There's so many factors that goes into a match of dark. But, you know, I actually don't think the standard's getting better. Do you not? In my opinion, I think if you look at the numbers now, so the numbers three, four years ago, I don't think they're better.

54:53Do you not? I think they're peak higher. Yeah. So now you're seeing a lot of 115s randomly. Yeah. But I reckon if you look at the seasonal average for the 128 tour card holders compared to five years ago, I reckon it's down. I might be completely wrong. That might be bullshit. That's just your feeling, right? This is my thing. I don't think the standards got any better over the last few years. I just think when people play really well, it's really, really good. Okay. If that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, anyone can beat anyone at all. World number 128 can beat Littler. Simple as that.

55:23Right. He has done. Yeah. You know what I mean? And world number 128 can have you done doing 20 over the best of 11. but he can also have his fucking 85 the game after. Do you see what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Do you think, this is a question that's been asked so many times, do you think a prime Taylor beats a prime Littler? Well, we'll obviously never know. It's all hypothetical. Or a prime MVG? I would probably say... And if it was a first to ten, match play first round, I think a prime Littler beats a prime Taylor. World Championship final over a two-hour format, I think a Taylor beats a Littler.

56:05Okay, that's interesting. And the reason I say that is I think Luke can play darts at a higher level than Phil could. Right. On an average-wise. but I think for a match situation, if this makes sense, what I'm trying to say, I do think Phil over that distance would beat him. That's a great answer. How much of it is a mental battle then? All of it. Just every part? All of it. Honest to God, like I'm saying, like I touched on before about World of War 128 and whoever is World of War 128, I do apologise. You as a reference. But they can have his 150 15 and then they can average 72 the game after.

56:47And it happens all the time. The guys at the top are at the top for a reason because they're more consistent. And why are they more consistent? Because they've been through so many situations they know how to deal with situations better. So we have more stage experience as well. I just think there's a reason why the boys, obviously we are ceding to Euro Tours, which I saw subjects because we ain't going to go into. But yeah, I just think that it's how you deal with diversity and shit situations and knockbacks and that. It is all in the head. A lot of it, we obviously, like 80 % of it is there.

57:30Yeah, yeah. What are you thinking about on a high pressure dart when you go up to that board? Are you trying not to think about it? Fucking miss. Right. Again, this comes back into like my dartitis that I had. Yeah. You know, I was overthinking it, which is what causes dartitis. I'm putting so much pressure on myself. Well, can I just stop you? Because we spoke to Shaggy about this, and you know what the internet's like. There's some pricks out there. We got a few comments on the clips from people who don't know darts at all saying that dartitis is not a real thing. Now, you have probably the most well-known case of it, right?

58:06So I can't think of a player higher up in their peak, in their prime, that has had it. I'm sure there are. Vanveen. Vanveen. But before he was Vanveen. Yeah, right. You've had probably, obviously, Bristow had it. Yeah, okay. But, you know, modern day that it's kind of ruined was Mark Webster. Yeah. You know, I remember playing Webby. And, see, there's different forms of diet. Yeah. So there's ones where you physically just can't let it go and you're moving with it, which is what Webby had. That's the worst one. Right. mine was just I couldn't throw it but as soon as the first one went yeah it'd be fine what the next two would follow fine yeah but it was that first start yeah so for anyone who doesn't know it's this it's a mental block isn't it yeah it's a fear of missing is that what it is the fear of missing it's a fear of missing yeah some people call it the yips do they yeah so it's like the yips in golf right you know you over a put which I also had as well but I could worry too much but yeah it's a it's a it's fucking horrible yeah I'm not gonna lie you know people Johnny always gives me shit Johnny Clayton he's like have you packed your diet out this weekend you know and they can laugh about it now because you know I've still got a bit of it have you I mean it's not completely going out of my game but I work bloody hard to you know with I've had Sean my sports psychologist Chris O 'Connor my hypnotherapy and I was doing hypnotherapy twice a week and a sports psychologist once a week what does the hypnotherapy entail?

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1:00:13What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes. Chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, onabotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It prevents on average 8 to 9 headache days a month versus 6 to 7 for placebo.

1:01:03out. Myasthenia gravis or Lambert-Eaton syndrome and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX to learn more. So there's a lot of guys using Chris now. Right. And it's basically, when you have diabetes, you're having a panic attack. So every time you can't throw that dart, effectively your brain thinks you're having a panic attack. Right? So why do you have a panic attack? Why are you anxious? Because of stress, this, that and the other. This is why I had it. Yeah.

1:01:43So we had to work out a way to basically make me unstressed. Yeah. And clear. So that was by processing everything. So because I'm always, I am always busy. I do. I'm 100 miles an hour. oh, I've got this going on, that going on, everything. So this hypnotherapy was basically trying to clear my head. So I was going into darts, not worrying about this at home or this. I was just literally going with a clear head to play in darts. And the way that we got rid of it all was by doing this hypnotherapy. I'm not qualified to do it, but it's like you're dreaming it, like your REM state, it's called. It's not like the traditional pendulum.

1:02:26you look at that no no pretend you're a rat or whatever no nothing like that you just literally lie down it's like that listening to that music with the people talking okay the ASMR stuff settle down relax nothing else matters anymore apart from you and all this kind of and it's just a way of like you go into a bit of a trance and you just process and stuff and it's I was dead what's the word I'm looking for dead against it I didn't believe in it I'm like a sceptic sceptical fuck me it's amazing is it it's changed my life so is it like tapping into your subconscious so you're then not yeah yeah and you like your brain split into two parts yeah uh like you fight to fly or whatever it's called yeah and then your um intellectual part and it's trying to get you living in the front part of your brain at your back yeah oh wow well you know all that kind of stuff you basically reprogramming your brain the way you think about stuff and it changed my darts it also changed me as a person like the way i would be you know at home the way i'd process stuff the way i'd deal with defeat or an argument with the missus for example or the way i deal with my kids more relaxed and more chilled and this and the other and you know chris chris is working with a lot of people on the tour right um and it got me through my diet as i say it's still there bits and bobs um but yeah i do do owe him a lot that's so interesting because like you say you're quite honest you're a skeptic at first and so if anyone wasn't going to believe it is going to be you so what any message to the young lads and ladies out there that might might have it yeah i speak It's probably the most common question I get asked at an exhibition is, can you help me?

1:03:56I've got that. I guess the amount of people that I've not, so it was unheard of 15 years ago. Random. Yeah. Bristol, Mark Webster, like I said. That's why people ravish it still, isn't it? Yeah. Oh my God. There's kids with it. Yeah. Right? And the reason the kids have got it, it's simple. They want to be a professional dart player like, look, they're so quick. That's it. Yeah. They're putting that much pressure on themselves to be dead good, dead quick. Yeah. That's why they're getting it. That's my opinion. And I think anyone that's in darts will probably agree with me on that. And I just keep saying to the kids, like, stop winning.

1:04:29If it's meant to be, it's meant to be. Bide your time. You know, enjoy it. Stop putting pressure on yourself. But now the problem is, as good as darts is now with all these academies, these 13, 14-year-old kids playing darts for like two, three grand every week. It's mad, isn't it? Jaden Walker and that, smashing people up. Jaden was at that exhibition. He's clapped. Unbelievable. I played him a couple of weeks ago with Epsom Racecourse. Yeah. I don't think they beat me. You know what I mean? It's 12. It's fucking scary, isn't it? Scary. They won it too quick. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So for me, just, you know, if you've got it, just don't give in.

1:05:06Right. I always say to people, don't give in. You can beat it. Yeah. You know what I mean? I beat it, kind of. You know, Van Bien, look at him. Yeah. You know what I mean? And like say, Scott's come out and said he's got it. Ricciardo seems to have a bit of it. Yeah. so but he looks like he's got it bad yeah so I'm not going to pressure for a name because I don't think it'll be fair but is there someone on the tour you really don't get on with and what's that like is that hard when you have to play them so often luckily they don't play them that often they've not played them for years right there's two yeah yeah three no there's not there's generally there's one guy that I can't stand playing yeah and there's one guy I can just fucking hate right but I can't tell you Yeah, yeah.

1:05:48Off the pod? Yeah. But when you're hating someone, does it not matter too much? It's fucking well hard to play him. Is it? And you want to smash him that much. Oh, right. It's like a desperation then. You just want to beat him. Yeah. There's other reasons why. Yeah. You just want to beat him so much and then you just play shit and lose. Is that other person aware? Yeah, he must be aware. It must be so much easier to get in your head. He must be aware. are you aware Dolby he's in the spare room fuming is it safe to say you're living your grandad's dream then yes a million percent a million is a good question that by the way we always say with my family that I'm living his dream and he's lived it with me you know it's like I say he's got pneumonia at the moment in hospital he's got asbestosis on his lungs he is in a bad way wow yeah you know as soon as I pull out the Pro Tour to go and see him tomorrow.

1:06:46Yeah. Hopefully he gets through. But yeah, he was good at that play and he's been so proud of me. And, you know, winning the UK Open with my grandad there meant so much. Mate, you have to, if we've got a little bit of time left, tell us that story. Because again, I listened to you on Hugh Wears and I love that story. So for a little bit of background on me quickly, my grandad's like my best mate. Like me and my grandad are so close. I've got his name embroidered in my football boots because he comes to watch every Sunday league. So I resonated a lot with your story. So tell us about, you had the worst seats at the UK Open.

1:07:19Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you were back near the kids' park at the back of the seat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. So it's not there anymore, the play area. So this would have been 2017, I think it would have been. Yeah, it would have been 2017. So I think I just got on the tour. I can't remember what the situation was. Anyway, my granddad had never been to watch live darts. He's always wanted to go. So for his, so I bailed to work out. I took it to the 60th. So it would be 12 years ago. I don't know. Here we are. 24 in, 20-15. Yeah. So anyway, we got tickets for Miner. So we went down in one of them lovely lodges that Buckley's Miner had to offer.

1:08:00Went there and we had, we were on the back row of the tiered seating right at the back next to the climbing frame. Right? And I just started playing county at the time in Stuart Kelly. Kellett was playing, not sure if you do, Kellett, he's a great lad by the way, and he was playing, and obviously I played a few county games, I'm like, I'll get us in the back, and all that stuff, never happened, because obviously, you know, I wasn't that close to him, but I thought I could, I didn't realise how hard, how strict that was, to get that backstage, yeah, right, yeah, so anyway, we was on the back seat, it was, I couldn't see a fucking thing, got absolutely bladded, for three days from my granddad.

1:08:44Didn't sleep a wink because he was snoring all weekend. But I remember saying to him, I said, one day, I'm telling you now, I'm going to fucking play on that. On the stage? He's like, okay, yeah, I hope you do. I went, honestly, I'm telling you now, one day I'm going to play on that. And I roll forward three years later. So the year before, I played my debut at the UK Open. I played James Wade on the main stage. I should have been on board two. And they brought it forward to board one because it was so quick. And then an hour before I walked out, I couldn't stop being sick. I was that nervous right so the UK Open for any people who don't know darts that's another huge dart tournament yeah yeah and it's basically I've heard it described recently as like the FA Cup of Darts so anyone can play anyone so you'll have the 128 tour card older you have like 40 odd qualifiers that back then you'd go to Riley's snooker hall do a knockout there yeah and anyone can play anyone so I got through like three rounds true sorry I played Dolby first round cool and then I ended up playing Wadey but anyway the year after whatever it was my grandad came up with me he's not been since we went as fans yeah and then he watched me lift the UK Open trophy you won the whole thing I won the whole thing 500 to 1 I was fucking hell and my mate because I was still working at the time yeah and I won the UK Open my mate my mate from work put a 10 on it did he really yeah oh did she yeah yeah yeah so yeah he was there wow obviously that moment was so special yeah you know he I close the answer to my dad and I love my dad to bits yeah my mom and all that it just meant more it was right yeah that he was there and then ever from that moment he kind of became a bit of a celebrity in the darts world and he don't fucking knew him like he's honest to god like he'd go he'd go shopping people asking him for pictures the story on on a plane he's been asked for pictures wow Oh, Nathan's granddad, aren't you?

1:10:40Yeah. Oh, you're great. You all love you. Can I have a picture? Honestly, everyone loves him. Fucking hell. How does he feel about that? Oh, but he's buzzing. So, two years ago, three years ago, we came to watch the Grand Slam. So, I think I played in the semis. I beat Humphries and played Michael Smith in the final. So, in between the sessions, he'd gone out with my daughter and had to get some food. they came back in and obviously this was before the fans were coming so he just didn't like the VIP bit so anyway Andy Slingo at Eddie Secure he's looking and I say is that my grandad there so he's on the camera so he zoomed it around so then a few more people come in give him fucking autographs right he's like yeah I'm Nathan's grandad and you see him signing his fingers right so anyway he's come up to me about 20 minutes later so he's come and then come round the back I've fucking seen you then signing autographs I went oh yeah he said they wanted my signature I went what signature did you do though well because my normal signature I went what the one that's linked to your bank account I went oh didn't think of that he's a fucking idiot but yeah he loves it you know what I mean he's been a big fan he's my biggest critic right is he does he yeah it's a fucking nightmare honestly I'll go about I could literally I'll go nine nine nine nine nine ten and then I go around to his house to see him and I go, oh God, should have hit that torch.

1:12:10You know what I mean? Like, he always finds something, but he always says, so I'll show granddad. He can watch the game or whatever. Yeah. And he's like, I can say it on me granddad. So I let him have it, but he does pet me out sometimes. Oh man, I bet he's so proud of that. I bet he really is. I want to talk to you a little bit about the Premier League. Yep. Like we said, you are a fan favourite. People absolutely love you. You're not in the Premier League this year. were you you obviously got to miss out when you get into the Premier League how would you get a phone call is it like when Gareth Southgate selects a player for the England team how does it work no it should be but it's not you could get a text okay about two minutes before it came on TV really so before the public find out you find out two minutes before about that and is that the same like the issue when you didn't make it yeah so I found out about I think it was about five minutes before it got announced yeah in their defence apparently it was like literally 10 minutes before that it actually got decided whether I believe that or not is a different matter but yeah when I I remember the year before when I got got in it was like I think it was getting announced at like 4 o 'clock and it was like 3 o 'clock and I'd heard nothing I'm like I've obviously not got in you knew that you had the feeling yeah I remember going to my missus I was like I've obviously not got in I'm fucking fuming this that and the other yeah I'm gonna have a shower then we'll go out yeah And then I literally got in the shower, pictured a scene.

1:13:33Last year, I'm stood there, start bowling naked, on the phone to Matt Porter, saying, well done, mate, you've made the cut. I'm like, yeah, cheers, mate, thank you. And then I walked in, I'm like, yay! The wee! For the audio listeners, he just windmilled his penis, not literally. I've never done that before. But yeah, and then obviously this year, I just got a text the hard thing for me was I was flying with Stephen Bunting on the way home and he got a text message saying well done you've made the cut and he told me he said oh have you had a text yet I was his dad wasn't saying I'm in and I believed it was out with me and him as soon as he got that message I knew I wasn't in before he even got the text so what was that like being on the plane next to Stephen?

1:14:21Vile obviously he's dead happy and I'm really really pissed off and we both had extremely hungover so it was in a bad mood anyway we missed our flight we then had to drive back from London because we missed our flight it was a shit day you've got to take the rough of this move I think last year I nicked it I don't think I deserved it last year I really don't see that's interesting I really don't I think there's people that deserved it more than me Wade had probably been one of them probably Nop it last year and Nop it this year as well to be honest he's been unlucky both times but again we said it before on the podcast Premier League isn't like any of a tournament it's an exhibition it's about entertaining and you know I like Danny I think he's an absolute fucking mega dart player but he's born to watch yeah it's as simple as that do you know what I mean like you said he's an incredible darts player and maybe it's well no I was going to say maybe it's because he's Dutch but I don't know many of my mates who love darts that go Noppet's playing we've got to watch it and I know that sounds bad that's just the truth whereas if you're playing MPG's playing obviously both the Luke's playing you want to watch it and it's also about like characters and how many people know him across the UK I'm not going to say Danny other people that always have a chance to be in it but like will people know these people in Belfast in Dublin you know all these different people a lot of casuals are going as well aren't they that's what Premier League is not die hard fans of the Premier League people like people like the walk-ons people like the walk-ons that's what they're going for I might change it now because I didn't get in but yeah so obviously I was good this year because I thought I deserved it yeah and I know my ranking was low you'd made a lot of finals though yeah I'd made you know I'd won four Euro tours yeah I'd been to the final of the players championship which is the major I'd made the semi-finals of the Premier League that year I'd been to probably about another three or four finals on top of that and yes my ranking was 14th and it was low but I was also defending match play money yeah I was defending about 450 grand last year and I pretty much defended it all yeah so I thought you know I deserved it um ahead of a couple of people but listen like I said the year before I didn't deserve it so I've not worried about it I've not moaned about it I've enjoyed the time off er 2027 but Eggrum keeps saying it's missing me yeah he needs a bit of ass in it apparently yeah even the lads have been saying the practice room's shit but the players in the press they're like fucking hell mate get back next year because he's back to his room but all of them you know and you know Pruce and the Puddy when they're saying it you know I was with Ludog last night obviously the MC and he's like fucking hell mate but you're getting his penalty next year you know what I mean that's his first year though isn't it or has he been working doing other stuff he knows what I'm like you know what I mean it's I'm the guy that goes in the practice room and try and get the spirit going and like I say all the fans you know exhibitions are coming on going well whether they're missing me or the walk-on song is debated but yeah listen I'll be back is this your prediction 2027 you'll be in there yeah as long as I'm not lower than 12 in the world I think I'll be in yeah you know I don't win anything that's my prediction I know you said you don't watch it but do you have a prediction on who's winning it this year this is actually James Wade no this what the Premier League this year what are you on about he knows something we don't know this episode here we're doing now this is going out on the final I think the final so the Premier League is going on tonight if I say Van Gurnie don't make the top four I'm going to look out I would love to see Johnny win it I want Johnny to win it I predicted him from the start that's mad my mate Diddy will back me up on that wow because I told him to put a belt on it not for me by the way I told him to put a bet on Johnny Johnny loves the Premier League he's like me and he always performs in it and I've just got a feeling that he's going to win it I'd love to see it I've got to do well with all the lads in the Premier League but you know obviously both the Lutes are good mates of mine but I would love to see Johnny win it Well we spoke about your walk on there you've got the iconic Mr Brightside you say people come up to you and call you Mr Brightside that's what he said on the previous one I've not even got a name anymore so we've got two quick games to finish on before we let you go, Nath.

1:18:53Did you not ask me to sing the lyric, I don't know? No, no, no, no. You don't know the lyrics? Honest to God, mate, no. You've come out to it thousands of times. How do you not know? Probably millions. How do you not know the lyrics? Because I don't like the song.

1:19:07So, honestly, God, normally, if I hear this song two or three times, I'll know the word to it. I just have this mental block with it. Do you? I'm like, coming on it, and I want it all. There's bits of it that I just can't get. I don't know why. that's unusual yeah maybe because you maybe because you hear it before you're going out you've got the nerves and your I don't know your body's all over the gaff we'll go with that yeah alright fair enough right so what we want you to do here we want you to rank these 10 walk-ons from different players right but this is a blind ranking so once I've never done one of these I've never seen these on TikTok and I've always wanted to do one of these love it right so once it's in you can't move it and you don't know what's coming next so so so number one I don't know how good they are yeah Yeah, what is the most iconic walkout?

1:19:54Oh, walk-ons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let's start with yours. So, Mr. Brightside. You can put it one to ten. Where are you going to put it? So it's the most iconic. Yeah, what you think is the most iconic walk-on. Right, okay. So I'm going to put mine...

1:20:13Four. Four, okay, cool. Stevie, next one. MVG. Three. Seven Nation Army, yeah. Ed's Bank. You think you'd say that's better than yours? I think it's more iconic than mine. Okay. Go and price. Ice Ice Baby. Fucking 15.

1:20:34You know it's him, don't you? But it's not really iconic, is it? He fucking changed it to Raw, didn't he, last year? Let's stick it at nine. Okay. Phil Taylor. The Power. One. Number one, okay. John Henderson. The bagpipes. Love it though. Yeah. That one at the Premier League was iconic. But as a whole, John Henderson's walk on, I'm going to put it on four, five.

1:21:11Let's put it as seven. Seven, okay. I like how careful you're being with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I've got a feeling I know which ones are coming. Proper thinking about it. I like it. Let's go bunting. Fucking hell. Titanium. You know what? It breaks my heart, right? Because obviously this has been this massive debate about who's got the best walk on me and bunting. And I think bunting cares about it a bit more than me, if I'm telling you this for you. Yeah. But I must admit, it's fucking loud when it comes on. Right. Like, it shits on Mr. Brightside. I'll admit it. When you hear them singing, I fucking hate the song.

1:21:49I'm not going to lie, I can't stand it. Yeah. But for a crowd interaction, when it comes on, it is amazing. Right. It is unbelievable. Wow. But it's still not going to be more iconic than me. So I'm going to put him at five. Five, okay. You're doing well at remembering what numbers you've done here. Yeah. Luke Littler. Green light pit bull, isn't it? I'm ready to go. What about him? Because I'm saving two for one, which I'm hoping it's going to come out. so I've got three's Michael in it four's me you hated this song for a while didn't I? at the start and now you love it I'm a combat now it's so addictive like literally right wait like kids you ready?

1:22:29and they're like I'm ready to go oh Egby Egby's time to leave now Egby's fucking time to leave the house right but I'm going to put in six six okay cool so we've got two eight and ten left and three more spots what we got next Stevie? Peter Wright Don't Stop the Party Don't Stop the Party This could all go tips up if the one that I think should be on there isn't on there. That's my number two. So what, we've got two, eight and ten? Yeah. Eight. Eight, okay. Joe Cullen. Don't look back in anger. I think you're going to miss the one that I think is going to be number two. Right, okay, we'll see.

1:23:06Well, I'm holding on for two, so I'm going to put me ten. Two or ten. And then finally, so at two, you have put Barney. No. Why have you not put him in that? we don't want it to be obvious it's going to be Sean wanking it Willie O 'Connor zombie it's not iconic it's good isn't it yeah it is good right well it's not bad that I'd probably put Joe a bit higher up yeah but you would you would have Barney second yeah I would put Barney second I think that's the second most iconic that's a class list because his arm thing you know that so Phil Taylor number one then Willie O 'Connor MVG Nathan Aspinall Stephen Bunting Luke Littler John Henderson Peter Wright Go in Price and Joe Cullen Yeah, definitely put Gezi bottom.

1:23:46Would you? Yeah. Mood Joe, get rid of Gezi. And obviously, definitely put Willie a bit lower down. I love the Willie one. That's one of my favourites. Right, final thing. Final game we've got for you. Final game. We're going to call this teammates. You've probably done it before. We're going to give you a category, and the answer is one of your fellow Dart players, all right? Yeah. So who is the funniest above all else? I think you know what I'm going to say. Yourself? Well, no, I'm funny, but no, Joe Cullen. Cullen, okay. Fucking funny as fuck. Who's the best on a night out? For the audio listeners.

1:24:22Yeah, I think Eggman calls me the party animal and yeah, no one parties like me. Love it. I'm an animal. Who's the moodiest? Fucking hell. Where do we start? Jesus Christ. Moodiest? Who's up by Barry's always moody? he very rarely smiles I've heard that but teammates people I'm close with would you say yeah moodiest people um Joyce is he Ryan Joyce just sits like that not moody but he's always got a face on him I thought I thought people say Wadey it's a bit moody yeah but I don't want to sit with Wadey I'm just trying to think of the people okay yeah right yeah Wadey isn't no he's not he's not no does he get does he get a bad rep Wadey yeah Wadey's Wadey he's a fucking nightmare when you play him he's an absolute nightmare but he's a good lad you know what I mean so let's throw Joyce in let's give him a shout out okay who would you want on your pop quiz team who's got fucking Jesus Christ wow none of the lads that I sit with anyway certainly not Chiz definitely not Chiz Jesus you know what this might surprise you but he's a very very very clever man Dirk Van Divermode is he yes he's a very very clever man the Obergenius yes wow definitely Dirk who would you least like to have a scrap with well the big bad Boris Kritschmer yeah everyone says him Boris I think fucking Cowell said the check yeah I reckon he can handle himself yeah Willie O 'Connor I know he's hard is he yes is he he's bare knuckle did he really wow yeah he's got it in the veins yeah there's actually a few there's Willie O 'Connor Cavill Big Bad Boris as I call him I always say Bad Boris I say it to him all the time if I find you in bed with my message I'm just talking to you in meeting him there's no way I've even started with him I thought a story about him in Covid so we had to sit on these little chairs so we had like a little table with like two chairs on each side and then like the eight players that were on board 16 would all have to be sat in that little area so anyway Andy Bolton he'd come back from practicing and his chair had gone but then Boris was sat on the outside of a table with like I think it was Mensah and Roby so he'd gone up to him and go Oi you is that my chair and he's like yeah he went if he's not fucking back there by this time next week I'm coming after you right and he just looked at him honestly God it's the funniest fucking thing ever he's obviously unit yeah yeah I'd shit myself well not from him I'll show you a picture and make me all manager next to Boris yeah oh I'm gonna find in fact honestly God this is a class right this is at the this is at the worlds

1:27:37fucking hell look at the look at the difference looks like his kid yeah how big is he do you reckon Chris oh six eight is he fucking huge fucking hell have you got a photo next to him right last few ones what did we say then so the hardest one is Willie O 'Connor yeah Willie O 'Connor most boring the most boring this is a tough one I'm gonna he's not he's not boring but unsociable and Joe Cullen will back me up on this fucking Dobie he just sits on his phone you try and have a conversation with me because on his phone just watching the Newcastle game yeah he's upset with football and like all you can do is talk to me about football that's all he knows like you can't talk about real life stuff he's not boring but for the the ignorance for go for Dobbs yeah like who's most likely to get arrested probably me Who's the best on the dance floor on a night out?

1:28:44Probably me. Nah, not really. Fucking hell. Who's the best on the dance floor on a night out? Has MVG got a bit? I always see him up there with the DJs giving it some. That's what he does, the finger point. Yeah, yeah. That's all I do. I don't think a lot of dance players are known for the dancing. Like, Dimmy? Yeah. He can't dance, though. Yeah. He thinks he can.

1:29:11You know what? Gezi. Yeah? He shifts a few moves. Does he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He don't come out very often, but when he comes out, he loves to dance. I can't imagine him dancing. Wow. I'm going to fuck Gezi in there. And then finally, who is the most easy to wind up? Who can you get in the head of easiest?

1:29:30Well, I'm up there. Yeah? People wind me up. Can you get rattled easy, can you? People, yeah, wind me up a lot. But definitely, in my opinion, units between two Darrell Gurney and Michael Smith oh okay rather two okay now if you smash this today mate thank you it's been great fun great fun 2026 going to be a big year for you you're going to get yourself back in the Premier League next year and you've got your wedding coming up yes so 8th of August as long as she turns up I was a bit of a dick so I don't have my own but yeah 8th of August is going to be amazing you know it's 16 years I've been with her wow you know two kids it's about time I made an honest woman mother yeah as they say and you got all the darts players going yeah there's loads of us doing four weeks i'm fucking dreading have a guess who's organizing this dag do who's joe isn't he's not organizing it well he's but he's a part of it yeah what are you doing for it do you know going ibiza i think if we're 12 or not 12 18 but um joe cullen yeah so there's cullen doby ross smith uh andy bolton and adam from the darts because we're doing it over the world cup of darts weekend oh okay so we're not in it so so and he even changed his nationality to Scottish and he still can't get in yeah so these them five come in and obviously all me all the riffraff from Stockport and my family you told me you've got four tables of darts players yes yeah bit sad that really that's mad isn't it yeah and he's and he's doing his first dance to Mr Brightside I'm absolutely not but yeah no we've got obviously a lot of darts lads a couple of different managers that I've got on with obviously like me Gary Pullman from Target he's coming nice mate we've got my mate coming from Canada not seen him for about five or six years so it's going to be a mega day and love it yeah I partly see you that's the end of my life well there we go and that's the end of the podcast this has been Jack Mate's Happy Hour podcast with me Jack Mate Stevie White and the brilliant Nathan Aspinall Naif we always finish with the same question yep what's the meaning of life smile be happy there we go cheers Nate there you go thank you mate no cheeses no that's good thank you

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